SNAFU

[CarnagePool]

<DIV>I don't see why people are complaining...</DIV> <DIV>Its been this way from the start (Ive played both SWG and EQ2 from the start) and its the same.</DIV> <DIV>SNAFU (Situation Normal..All F'ed Up).</DIV> <DIV>Just put a metal plate on your rear and get ready for it to see some use as you are delivered repeated kicks to the pants.</DIV> <DIV>SOE Tries...it does..</DIV> <DIV>Then again..it seems to have ear wax stuck in its ear; listening to one side and not the other. Mainly the side that they like.</DIV> <DIV>Hey..SOE Folks (Innappropriate Remark removed by Carnage.) listen up.</DIV> <DIV>Ive seen the other posts being all nice about it, well, wrong, I aint the nice or gentle type. Im the blunt type.</DIV> <DIV>So here it is...</DIV> <DIV>Yall screwed the goose...</DIV> <DIV>You listened (I assume you did. Or did you pull some of your ideas from darker regions?) to half of the player base, not the other half.</DIV> <DIV>You gave us..people who listen rather. (Innappropriate Remark removed by Carnage.).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing yall did very very RIGHT in other games (SWG here as an example) was take certain PLAYERS and make them Community Liason's for each class. (Ranger Liason, Wizard Liason, Gaurdian Liason, etc).</DIV> <DIV>Why? Theres god knows how many members, you cant listen to them all (expecting you to would be a bit..odd). </DIV> <DIV>So you want to save your game? Then pay close f'ing attention.</DIV> <DIV>1: Player Liason's (PLAYERS who have been in EQ2 for a long time and who know the class and have played it. They listen to us, you listen to them. Simple chain of command. This current one you have is a joke).</DIV> <DIV>2: Understand This: You [Removed for Content] of the players=they leave=you can kiss that new ring for your fluffer goodbye. You listen to players=you make players happy=you can have 2 fluffers!</DIV> <DIV>3: Talk to us. We can read. Tell us WHY you are doing something. Great..you are doing it, wee. A one paragraph explanation is NOT satisfactory. I can promise that if you tried to get a change approved by your boss that a one paragraph explanation would be laughed at.</DIV> <DIV>4: Understand that in the end...we are the boss's. It is the players that make or break this game (And in the case of a few rather odd players I know..break other things). We..pay..you to entertain us. We..pay..you. Oh wait..in a common business environment..that makes us the boss. Lovely how that works.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So get the sht straight, make the changes, add in a mea culpa (My mistake in latin incase anyone isn't fluent) here and there to show you really do care (Care or care enough to lie, either works), listen to the players concerns, and do something about them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Out.</DIV> <DIV>PS: Its good to be back. </DIV> <DIV>PPS: I've been up for 24hrs, so if parts of this dont make sense, tough. Deal with my scatterbrainedness.</DIV><p>Message Edited by CarnagePool on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:04 PM</span>

[DarkLegacy2005]

<DIV>I hate to break it to you... but the group of people who post on the boards make up a small percentage of those who play... just fyi.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, this makes little to no sense whatsoever. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not to mention a flaming remark against the Dev's is a surefire way to get them to change their ways.../sarcasm off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, a MMORG is constantly changing... A fix that would have worked for 90% of the population in January might need to be changed so that it maintains that same percentage come July.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT: Took out the quote... wasnt needed and was just HUGE</DIV><p>Message Edited by DarkLegacy2005 on <span class=date_text>12-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:34 AM</span>

[Bloodtoo]

I also notice a general attitude on the forums that the devs are obligated to make the changes the "general" commuity wants.  I know for a fact this isn't the way it works.  The general commuity does not know what's best for itself it never has.  "The masses are @sses" is one of my favorite quotes that applies very well in this case.  What the devs do, or are suppose to do, is use the commuinty feedback as suggestions.  They then decide what is the best course of action based on the feeback, their knowlege of the game, and what they believe is best as a whole.  Often, very often, this is not what the players want.  I know I often disagree with thier choices and so do many others. Personally I do aggre the lack of effective "two-way" feedback is the most frustrating.  Though this has shown a lot of improvement of late, and I commend them for it.  I liked the class liasons (forget what we called them) that were in SWG, and I think there would be benifit in EQ2 as well.  I think I saw some movement toward implementing something like this a while back, but I lost track and haven't heard anything furhter. <div></div>

[Geekyone]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CarnagePool wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1: Player Liason's (PLAYERS who have been in EQ2 for a long time and who know the class and have played it. They listen to us, you listen to them. Simple chain of command. This current one you have is a joke).</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Very much agreeeed.</DIV>

[CarnagePool]

<DIV>Sorry again if most of that didn't make sense.<BR>Drunkenness and sleep depravity do not make good writing companions.<BR>Lets see.</DIV> <DIV><BR>#1: Darklegacy: Sorry you had trouble understanding it. And it wasn't a flaming remark at the dev's. It was a cheapshot critisism. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>#2: Bloodtooth: I never said that the dev's are obligated to make the changes we want, well atleast that is not what I meant. What I meant was they are obligated to listen to us. If we, the players, suggest a change..ok. A little recognition that we suggested it would be nice. If they decide against it? A reason might be a nice way to handle it instead of just saying no and having many threads come up flaming the choice because no one knows why they said no. But yeh, my point was that communication is severely needed. And yes, they are improving it. When I first played, Raijin wasn't a community relations person. Positive step? Yeh, but they need to keep stepping. What I think that SOE doesn't realize is how many players would be a liason for free just to help the community and the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>#3: Geekyone: Yeh the liason's and their need was my main argument in the whole thread. After reading it again, now that I am sober and well rested, I am wondering why I didn't just say that. Oh well. But thanks for agreeing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all, if anyone is getting the idea that I am trying to get myself appointed to such a liason position, I am not. I am not the customer service...type. <BR>But yeh, cheapshots at the devs are sometimes needed to get their attention. I just hope they can concentrate on what I was saying, the liason part that is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I believe they were called "Class Liason's" or something close in SWG. <BR>It was really one of the awsome things about that game. They realized there were X number of players and Y numbers of devs that could not possibly read every single concern.<BR>So they had the class liason's which would only concern themselves with the issues of their class.Here's an example:<BR>Class Liason: Hey Mr. Dev, there's alot of concern in the Tailoring about this bug (Description of bug). And here is why this is a serious problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Presto...that one class liason just cut out alot of work for a dev in going through the forums. They give them a synopsis of the problem, maybe with links to the specific threads addressing it. <BR>Its kinda like how the military chain of command works. Well..filters as it were. The lil guys at the bottom that make up the majority of people, but those without much rank, give their problems to their higher ups who filter them and streamline them to their higher ups who go about handling them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok another example, more drawn out.<BR>Player X,Y,Z,etc are expressing concerns over problem A.<BR>Player M,N,O,P, etc etc are expressing concerns over problem B.<BR>Class Liason R see's this and sends a letter to the dev in charge of problem A and B.<BR>The dev reads this one email describing what's the problem, whats being said about it, and how the players suggest to fix it.<BR>The dev posts a quick thread, and locks it, about this to somewhat this extent.<BR>"We have become aware of problem A and B. Currently, Problem A is more of a concern to us. We are looking into it immediately and hope to have it fixed as soon as possible, more will be added when the fix nears completion. Problem B we are ruling as a secondary concern, but are not ignoring it. It will be fixed, but problem A presents more of a concern and thus demands our immediate attention."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Simple. This lets us know that:<BR>1: We were heard (This seems to help..alot).<BR>2: What they are planning to do with our concerns.<BR>3: How they rank our concerns.Priorities as it were.<BR>4: That they are targeting one of the problems for immediate action.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That right there would quelch alot of problems that occur.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Incase someone, including a dev, is unaware of my stance right now, let me make this clear.<BR>I love this game, i love SWG, i love SOE. They have made mistakes. The dev's are humans so they are allowed to make mistakes. I in no way think they are perfect or need to be. But in real life, when you make a mistake, you admit to it. I think SOE has made a few mistakes in it's day, as all developers have. But they have the ability to fix them. They are just missing an opportunity to improve their developer-customer relations and that upsets me.</DIV>

[Vicio]

<P>I would like to point out that we don't know what percentage of the player base visits the forums just like we don't know how many EQ2 subscribers there are.</P> <P>This is an online game based on community, therefore everyone has to have access to the internet. It would also follow they would have access to this site. </P>

[DarkLegacy2005]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vicious wrote:<BR> <P>I would like to point out that we don't know what percentage of the player base visits the forums just like we don't know how many EQ2 subscribers there are.</P> <P>This is an online game based on community, therefore everyone has to have access to the internet. It would also follow they would have access to this site. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>Actually you can make a good guess by looking at the server stats... add them up and divide by 4. Thats roughly how many accounts there are subscribed. Also, generally only a small percentage of people voice their opinions on MMORPG's on their forums. A lot of people just kinda shrug and say "ok".</FONT></DIV>