How much is "much" (rare drops and the econmy)

[Im-post]

<DIV>I'm not a Raider, I'm not a Power Gamer, I'm just Joe Schmoe trying to run a tailoring business in Norrath.  I have to admit that when I first heard that rare drops were going to increase I was a bit excited.  I personally felt that the inflation in the EQ2 economy was getting a little out of hand.  However, once I read Moorgard's comment that Adept III rares were going to become "much more available", or words to that effect, I began to wonder how much is "much?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So off I went to the test server, rolling my first ever test server character, a Mage named Thasulius.  Well Thasulius hit the island running, as he was eager to get to Qeynos and begin his quest to discover how much was "much."  Well 4 hours later, standing at the Castleview gate in Oakmyst Forest, he discovered that "much", in fact, meant ahelluvalot.  He peered into his meager 4 slot bags and gazed in wonder at 2 Severed Alder, 2 Low Quality Pelts, 1 Yarrow, 1 Bronze and lo and behold the ever elusive Lapis Lazuli. "Seven rares" he thought to himself, Seven rares in a mere 3 hours, after leaving the island.  "And I wasn't even harvesting THAT hard. I ran hither and yon and took time to reach level 9 and complete my class quest while gathering these magnificent rares".  "This is wonderful" Thasulius thought to himself."  And there ends the happy part of the story..........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You see, I am a Tailor, I make armor, and in order to make armor and meet the needs of my customers it requires that I have an inventory of supplies.  WORTs, threads, leathers, cords, harnesses and the like.  But my customers come to me for Rare Armor, and that means Legendary Pelts and Legendary Roots, and not just one or two.  Try seven.  Seven legendary pelts or roots for every suit of armor. I make two different weights of armor (Very Light and Light) and presently work in tier 2 and tier 3.  That means 4 different types of roots or pelts (unlike armorers, tailors require a different rare for the different armor weights)  I need to have in my inventory to meet my customers demands. Carrying this forward, if I make a suit of armor and use my seven roots or pelts for that tier and weight, I am out of stock and therefore have to tell the next customer I can't do theirs.  Oh wait, no I don't becasue I am a Norrathian businessman and I always have enough inventory to do two sets. That way I have time to shop the market for decent prices to replenish my inventory. So while Thasulius is looking in his bag giggling with glee, I peer into my bank with dismay calculating my losses when the flood of new rares hits the market, and praying that someone....anyone realizes what they are about to do to the economy of Norrath.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I agree that the inflation in the market has gotten slightly out of hand, and yes I have heard people speak of how new characters are shut out of the Legendary market because of inflation.  Well the fact of the matter is that when this game was released, NONE of us could afford Legendary items.  At least I know I couldn't.  I scrimped and I saved the money I earned crafting common items, and when I didn't harvest one I bought myself a rare.  I didn't Ad3 a spell with it, I didn't have it cafted into armor or a weapon I could use.  I crafted it and I sold that item, and I turned around and bought two more rares, and I crafted those and I sold those, all the while running around with no stat, store bought, dropped, borrowed, common items.  What a day it was and what a sense of accomplishment I felt when I slipped that first piece of Legendary armor on, having finally reached the place where my investment paid off and I now had legendary crafted items to sell and some spare change to get myself some decent clothes. And because I played the game the way it was designed, I sit here today in my legendary armor, in my aprtment in qeynos harbor, while a Clydesdale named Bob waits to carry me off to adventure. </DIV> <DIV>I know this is SOE's game and their DEV team can do anything they want to with it.  However I strongly feel that they are slitting their own throats in their desire to pander to the "I want it all now" crowd.  First of all, they are going to alienate a large percentage of their established player base by destroying the economy and devaluing every piece of work done by any artisan prior to the release of LU13 and making every player's investments in legendary items and refineables worthless.  Secondly, once the new breed of "uberkinder" hit the streets dressed in their fine post LU13 legendary tier 2 armor and flashing their Adept III spells across the land, and SOE is forced to nerf their overly generous increase in rare drops to try and save the economy, they are gonna scream like banshees when they can't have it all in tier 3.  Of course mom and dad will never even know they don't play EQ2 anymore, and the credit card will keep getting billed for that unplayed subscription, and SOE will come out ok in the end.  Meanwhile those of us who have played this game since release, will most likely be treated unfairly by the Norrathian Bankruptcy Court (SOE CS), and will continue to play because despite it all this will probably still be he best game in town and SOE will come out ok in the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To Moorgard, Blackgard and the rest of the DEV team:  I think you are making a huge mistake with the scope of the increase in rare drops.  I agree that they do need to be upped a bit, but my question to you is why not a small increase to start and then tweak the number up or down from there to get the rares market stabilized?  </DIV> <DIV>How much is "much?"  Too da mn much!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aepelric Pureheart  37 Conjuror <Elite Nobility>  Antonia Bayle Server</DIV>

[Xeronoth]

<div></div>Well, I read your entire post and Believed that you are correct- I believe that 7 Rares in under 3 hours is a bit much. My thoughts are that they should have only halved the "requirment" of obtaining the rare- not scew it down to (roughly) 75% easier. Then adjust it up or down accordingly.  I'ld say that searching around for a Pallidium Torqe for 3 weeks is too much. However, you also have to look at the fine print... Lower Tiers are much easier to recieve Rares because it's mainly crafters that drop time out of their day to Harvest. Again, I say Start at 50% and adjust accordingly. Edit: Also, The Higher Tier Nodes are harder to Find in comparison to the First Tier nodes... Imagine this: You zone in to Oakmyst Forest, you automaticly see about 3 or 4 different/same nodes right infront of you (Coming from one of the Hamlets). Now when you turn that around and zone into TS: You have to go out about half way across the zone to find the node you want. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Xeronoth on <span class=date_text>09-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:45 PM</span>

[Magu]

This is not going to kill the economy, merely balance it a bit. Rare prices are just pathetic right now, and they need to go down. <div></div>

[kr8ztwin]

<P>i might be wrong but wasn't there a patch waaaaaay back that said T1 and T2 rares would be more common?  I might of had a dream about it but i swear it happened lol.  maybe that just added up with the new common system or sumthing heh.</P> <P>I'm also a little confused.  They are talknig about master3's right?  I'm assuming these are crafted as well.  Are these rares going to be fabled drops?  I think the reason they are making the regular rares more common is because the new goal for ppl will be master3.  Would be more fun if they made master rares a super rare harvestable and then having more common rares would seem reasonable.  I honestly would like it if the aid guilds didn't own all of the high end market :robottongue:</P>

[Im-post]

<DIV>This is not going to kill the economy, merely balance it a bit. Rare prices are just pathetic right now, and they need to go down.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Magus I hope you are right.  I just think that they have added way too much weight to the other side of the scale.  To me it's more like the big kid who jumps off the see saw when he is in the air and lets his little brother slam to the ground, rather than coming down halfway and letting him hop to the ground.  And while I agree that rare prices are too high, with the exception of tier 5's, my fear is that this balancing is going to cost myself and a lot of other players a lot of plat.  Bear in mind that I always set a max price point for my rares and maintained it, even if that meant waiting 3 or 4 days for a reasonably priced rare to come to market so hopefully my losses will be mitigated by my self inposed cost controls, but I really do think that this is going to drive the rare market down to the point where the only rares in Norrath are going to be the uncooked meats we harvest from dens.  </DIV>

[Nemi]

<DIV>Rares need to be common.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why? Because the game as it stands is balanced on everyone having adept3 and Masters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Im-post]

<DIV> kr8ztwin, from what I have read  the new master spells will be Master 2  and will be put in in place of the "training" spells we used to receive.  So Instead of receiving a training spell you will be able to choose from 4 spells in that tier to upgrade to master 2 once per tier in place of the training spells. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is that clear as mud?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ClaudiustheG]

<P>Well, you are a crafter, and crafters end up with all the money, so your story has a happy ending.</P> <P>I, however, hate crafting.  I've tried it, I'm a level 19 sage, but I can't stay awake while doing it.  No problem, different strokes for different folks.</P> <P>But what it means is that I have run around in second-hand, scrounged-up clothes for 40 levels.  I get a nice piece here and there, but in five or six levels my nice orange item is turning nice and green.  At any given moment more than half of my gear is grey.  Any money I do manage to collect goes to buying Adept I spells from the broker, on the theory that it's more important to upgrade my spells than my equipment.  I've harvested for 40 levels, and never harvested a rare in all that time.  I also never won a master drop, or any particularly rare item.  I have no master 1 or Adept III spells.</P> <P>So, I'm glad the rares are being kicked up, since it means the prices for crafted rare stuff will come down, and I can finally afford some of it.  Your profit margins will come down somewhat, but I will be much happier <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Claudius</P>

[Calthine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ClaudiustheGod wrote:<BR> <P>Well, you are a crafter, and crafters end up with all the money, so your story has a happy ending.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Ha!  ask any crafter.  Adventurers make the bucks.  Ours all goes back into fuel.</DIV>

[j]

<DIV>The chance of finding a rare should increase as the lvl of the rare goes up. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I.e </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tier one  has a 10% chance of a rare </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tier two has a 8 % chance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tier three has a 6% chance </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tier four has a 4% chance</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ti8er 5 has a 2%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sorry but spells in thier 30s should not be 1.3 pp or higher .  There is just no way .  Perhaps for a lvl 50 spell I can see that but 1.3pp at lvl 30 is a huge expense and i'd wager for most it will take from lvl 30-40  for them to save that much and by then the spell will be replaced.</DIV>

[DeLa]

<span><blockquote><hr>Calthine wrote: <blockquote> <hr> ClaudiustheGod wrote: <p>Well, you are a crafter, and crafters end up with all the money, so your story has a happy ending.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <div>Ha!  ask any crafter.  Adventurers make the bucks.  Ours all goes back into fuel.</div><hr></blockquote></span>Exactly.  I have 4 crafters at Lv 50.  I have 1 adventurer at Lv 50.  The crafters are broke and it's the lone adventurer who supplies them with coin to continue their grind.  Hour per hour, adventurers are waaaaay ahead of crafters in earning potential. But back to the original issue.... As a long-time crafter who crafts primarily for the guild, I'm thrilled to hear about the new rare drop rates.  Finally, crafters will be able to supply everyone with something (mostly) better than what drops from mobs.  And from the death cries of those on the test server after the recent "fixes," everybody's going to be needing legendary gear just to tackle the moat rats of Qeynos. DeLang <div></div>

[Unmask]

<P>What does the price of rares have to do with the profit margin of crafters?  I probably make just as much money as a tailor than an armorer (more really since I can make hex dolls) and we all know ebon costs a lot more than pelts.</P> <P>But to say crafters make more than adventurers or vice versa is too general.  Crafters can go retail or writs while adventurers can raid, do writs/easy mobs or farm nameds for the small chance of a metal chest.  Maybe there are other ways I haven't thought of.</P> <P>Raiders make little money (and probably lose money to pay for repairs) but have little need for it.  Going after easy mobs is safe, kind of boring and a steady income. Going after nameds is somewhat risky and a very unpredictable cash flow.</P> <P>Crafters make a steady income from writs but retailing is highly dependent on others, especially when selling rare items.  </P> <P>Tough call really as to which combination would make the most money.</P><p>Message Edited by Unmasked on <span class=date_text>09-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:33 PM</span>

[neria]

<DIV><FONT size=2>Crafted rare stuff isn't the only good crafted stuff, you know. A crafted item is almost always better than a normal dropped item, and at least as good as a quested item. There is no reason whatsoever to run around in grey gear, though I've seen plenty of people who do it. It's just silly.</FONT></DIV>

[Unmask]

That might have been true at launch (but debatable) but its certainly not true now.  Solo mobs quite often drop very nice gear which is also normally better suited for the intended class (e.g. cloth shoulders with INT).<p>Message Edited by Unmasked on <span class=date_text>09-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:52 PM</span>

[hellfire]

<DIV>market will be saterated in 1 months time. then you can sell  the rares like the luminious stones for 2 gp each  jeesh.</DIV>

[courtneysfost]

<P><FONT face=Century color=#339999 size=3>Actually I think that's about the right rate for T1 & T2 rares.  Only time will tell, but my gut tells me yes.  Remember that people don't last long in these tiers.  If they scaled it properly so that the later tiers do not hand out rares so frequently, then it should be fine.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century color=#339999 size=3>Dang it... there's that nagging feeling that I'm giving them too much credit for thinking things through again... </FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century color=#339999 size=3>~Sylus, the tailor looking forward to seeing some different kinds of armor around Norrath</FONT></P>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Calthine wrote: <div>Ha!  ask any crafter.  Adventurers make the bucks.  Ours all goes back into fuel.</div><hr></blockquote>You need to raise your piricing then <span>:smileywink:</span> I have made roughly 60p with crafting, 15p with harvesting rares and 20p with adventuring. And I am lvl 50 templar/50woodworker and I have a lvl 50 sage too. Currently I am making around 50g to 1p profit per day and need to craft around 1h per day. But 2h crafting per day doesn't bring any more profits, it just fills my vault.</span><div></div>

[MadTexan]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>EDIT: Nevermind.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <p>Message Edited by MadTexan on <span class=date_text>09-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:47 AM</span>

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calthine wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ha!  ask any crafter.  Adventurers make the bucks.  Ours all goes back into fuel.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You need to raise your piricing then <SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN> I have made roughly 60p with crafting, 15p with harvesting rares and 20p with adventuring. And I am lvl 50 templar/50woodworker and I have a lvl 50 sage too. Currently I am making around 50g to 1p profit per day and need to craft around 1h per day. But 2h crafting per day doesn't bring any more profits, it just fills my vault.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nice statement Tim, you proved your point! Or did you? You basically said My 2 lvl 50 crafters > my one lvl 50 adventurer. Well I sure hope so! Oh and hey, are you getting that profit by making ..gasp...legendaries!? Hmm then your profits are about to be cut off when the flood of rares comes.  Btw I'm a 50 sage, 50 woodworker, 50 alchemist, 49 Conjuror and this was about the dumbest statement I've seen all day, grats!

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote: Nice statement Tim, you proved your point! Or did you? You basically said My 2 lvl 50 crafters > my one lvl 50 adventurer. Well I sure hope so! Oh and hey, are you getting that profit by making ..gasp...legendaries!? Hmm then your profits are about to be cut off when the flood of rares comes.  Btw I'm a 50 sage, 50 woodworker, 50 alchemist, 49 Conjuror and this was about the dumbest statement I've seen all day, grats! <div></div><hr></blockquote>Ah, so I should quit crafting and star adventuring because adventurers make the bucks? Well, been doing it, making some cash there too. Just easier to make cash with crafting for me. And I adventure 5h for each 1h of crafting. So it is not my fault you make poor comparisons.</span><div></div>

[Calthine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>Ah, so I should quit crafting and star adventuring because adventurers make the bucks? Well, been doing it, making some cash there too. Just easier to make cash with crafting for me. And I adventure 5h for each 1h of crafting. So it is not my fault you make poor comparisons.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Classic case of reading in what you want to see.</DIV>

[EQoobTa]

<P>I'm glad they are finally changing the drop rate.  I might not be able to sell any App IVs after this but I'm not really selling many now.  However, I will be able to go out and farm rare stones to make Ad3s and sell them and make probably the same amount of money I make now, plus I'll probably actually get commissioned by ppl to make Ad3s, very few ppl commission me to do App IVs other than the one or two they can't find an Ad1 for.</P> <P>Also, I seriously doubt anyone who makes armor or jewelry is gonna lose any money.  You might lose the 40-60gp you paid for all those rare components but hey, you know it's coming, sell now!  Once it does go Live though you'll be able to go out and farm rares and sell the by-product for the same price if not slightly higher for your wares as you do now with the regulars and you'll be commissioned for full suits all the time.  You will still have business, some will have more business than they know what to do with lol.  I know that I personally will be farming non-stop each tier until I can have a full suit of rare cloth made and an Ad3 of each spell, whether I'll be able to achieve that goal is yet to be discerned but I'll try.  Well, someone's gotta make that gear for me...</P>

[Ethelwo]

Greed Sucks

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Calthine wrote: <div>Classic case of reading in what you want to see.</div><hr></blockquote>Or then I am just missing the joke here.</span><div></div>

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calthine wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>Ah, so I should quit crafting and star adventuring because adventurers make the bucks? Well, been doing it, making some cash there too. Just easier to make cash with crafting for me. And I adventure 5h for each 1h of crafting. So it is not my fault you make poor comparisons.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Classic case of reading in what you want to see.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL for real, where did this come from!? People if your gonna quote me, you better actually read it, and don't skim read it as fast as you possibly can, this is the forums not EyeQ , your not being tested :smileyvery-happy:

[Evadne]

T1 and T2 rare drops are more common than t3, which is more common than t4, and so on.  The idea is that you grown out of t1 and t2 so fast.  But, the combat changes make better armor, better spells more....necessary. ~Eva <div></div>

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Evadne wrote:<BR>T1 and T2 rare drops are more common than t3, which is more common than t4, and so on.  The idea is that you grown out of t1 and t2 so fast.  <BR><BR>But, the combat changes make better armor, better spells more....necessary.<BR><BR>~Eva<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually Tier 1,2&3 are the same commonability, Tier 4,5 are just slightly rarer. No matter the ratio this will make ALL TIER RARES MUCH MORE COMMON.</P> <P>Take what the OP posted, subtract maybe 2 rares and that's what she woulda got for Tier 5 in that short time, definately too much.</P>

[jygygf]

Good. I have a ton of dropped recipes and have never made one. If I get 7 rare components after a couple hours of harvesting, I may be able to make something every now and again. This way, Mr. SuperPowerGamer who harvests for hours on end wont be the only one with decent gear. <div></div>

[dparker7]

<DIV>Umm, so, someone that plays alot more and spends more time concentrating on his gear shouldnt have better equipment?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Drop rates like this will make legendary gear and adept3s the baseline for everyone, kinda sad when you consider that they've been on par or better than heritage items which can often take alot of time to acquire.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once people get used to this, the more casual players will complain that they cant get masters or fabled gear and that only the hardcore people get the good stuff.  If you think those items are expensive now, just wait until no one needs to spend much on rares.</DIV>

[MagicWand]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calthine wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ha!  ask any crafter.  Adventurers make the bucks.  Ours all goes back into fuel.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You need to raise your piricing then <SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN> I have made roughly 60p with crafting, 15p with harvesting rares and 20p with adventuring. And I am lvl 50 templar/50woodworker and I have a lvl 50 sage too. Currently I am making around 50g to 1p profit per day and need to craft around 1h per day. But 2h crafting per day doesn't bring any more profits, it just fills my vault.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nice statement Tim, you proved your point! Or did you? You basically said My 2 lvl 50 crafters > my one lvl 50 adventurer. Well I sure hope so! Oh and hey, are you getting that profit by making ..gasp...legendaries!? Hmm then your profits are about to be cut off when the flood of rares comes.  Btw I'm a 50 sage, 50 woodworker, 50 alchemist, 49 Conjuror and this was about the dumbest statement I've seen all day, grats! <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There one simple rule people tend to forget.  You can make the best gear in the world but it will be worthless if people CANT afford them.   Without money in the world coming in, your goods will be worth what the merchant NPCs buys them back for and that's it.   No price increases because people can't afford them.  So maybe adventurers making money is a good thing eh?</P> <P>Also, I am guessing you are a great grinder of crafting but a crappy salesman.  I know 50th level crafters who make cash hand over fist with 50pp+ in the bank, they dont have 3+ 50th level crafters.  Just one crafter and banking cash.</P> <P>Selling doesnt end when you finish an item.  You have to SELL IT and that takes time, good business practice and some charima and charm.  Some people just don't have it. </P>

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MagicWand wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR><SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calthine wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ha!  ask any crafter.  Adventurers make the bucks.  Ours all goes back into fuel.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You need to raise your piricing then <SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN> I have made roughly 60p with crafting, 15p with harvesting rares and 20p with adventuring. And I am lvl 50 templar/50woodworker and I have a lvl 50 sage too. Currently I am making around 50g to 1p profit per day and need to craft around 1h per day. But 2h crafting per day doesn't bring any more profits, it just fills my vault.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nice statement Tim, you proved your point! Or did you? You basically said My 2 lvl 50 crafters > my one lvl 50 adventurer. Well I sure hope so! Oh and hey, are you getting that profit by making ..gasp...legendaries!? Hmm then your profits are about to be cut off when the flood of rares comes.  Btw I'm a 50 sage, 50 woodworker, 50 alchemist, 49 Conjuror and this was about the dumbest statement I've seen all day, grats! <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There one simple rule people tend to forget.  You can make the best gear in the world but it will be worthless if people CANT afford them.   Without money in the world coming in, your goods will be worth what the merchant NPCs buys them back for and that's it.   No price increases because people can't afford them.  So maybe adventurers making money is a good thing eh?</P> <P>Also, I am guessing you are a great grinder of crafting but a crappy salesman.  I know 50th level crafters who make cash hand over fist with 50pp+ in the bank, they dont have 3+ 50th level crafters.  Just one crafter and banking cash.</P> <P>Selling doesnt end when you finish an item.  You have to SELL IT and that takes time, good business practice and some charima and charm.  Some people just don't have it. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Huh? Is someone telling ME about how to do good business?! ROFL...I invented good business on my server, I'm known for the fastest, friendliest mail box service and have alot more than 50pp+ in the bank,  heck I spend that in 2 weeks TYVM. Again take your advice to someone who needs it, if you actually read the quotes , This guy was saying HUH adventurers dont earn more?!? My 2 50 crafters have more cash!!1 Well duh, 2 vs 1 and not a very dedicated one either. Yes of course ONE very dedicated crafter can have as much money as ME the 3 ones, if your a monopoly.... besides I really dont don't care about having plat in my bank....I mean if your into that cool, I'm into actually SPENDING IT, that's what its there for :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>People if your gonna bother quoting me, read what I post, if your not then troll off plz!</P>

[EQoobTa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dparker713 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Umm, so, someone that plays alot more and spends more time concentrating on his gear shouldnt have better equipment?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Drop rates like this will make legendary gear and adept3s the baseline for everyone, kinda sad when you consider that they've been on par or better than heritage items which can often take alot of time to acquire.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once people get used to this, the more casual players will complain that they cant get masters or fabled gear and that only the hardcore people get the good stuff.  If you think those items are expensive now, just wait until no one needs to spend much on rares.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Someone who plays alot more and spends more time concentrating on his gear will have better equipment, it's called Fabled.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes, Legendary gear and Adept 3s will be the baseline for everyone and you know why?  Because the makers of this game have already decided that they will be the baseline.  All content will be centered around that type of gear and spell so don't fault the players for wanting to at least achieve what has already been stated they need to achieve.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hardcore players will still have easier access to Fabled gear and Master spells so I really don't see what your beef is other than the fact you won't be able to sell Ebons and such that are practically overflowing your vault for ludicrously inflated prices.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nitefl]

<DIV>And the gap between Average Joe and Hardcore Raider lessens..</DIV>

[j]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Niteflyx wrote:<BR> <DIV>And the gap between Average Joe and Hardcore Raider lessens..</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>whats hte problem there ? Just because people have jobs and a life doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same chances as someone who is up all night and has no life   and no job .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personaly they should do a vitality system for rares  . One for harvesting and one for fighting. The higher your vitality is the moreo f a chance u have of getting the rare .  Just name it something else </DIV>

[Tudd]

<span><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Evadne wrote:T1 and T2 rare drops are more common than t3, which is more common than t4, and so on.  The idea is that you grown out of t1 and t2 so fast.  But, the combat changes make better armor, better spells more....necessary.~Eva <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Actually Tier 1,2&3 are the same commonability, Tier 4,5 are just slightly rarer. No matter the ratio this will make ALL TIER RARES MUCH MORE COMMON.</p> <p>Take what the OP posted, subtract maybe 2 rares and that's what she woulda got for Tier 5 in that short time, definately too much.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I suggest you go to Test, and try it out yourself. And I suggest everyone else do the same thing so you know for yourself, and not just what someone else has drawn conclusions from, from a single report. I will agree on one thing. The ratio is higher. The OP on this thread had an extremely lucky run. But it is by no means the norm. In 18 hours of harvesting now this past week, I got 3 rares. I'm just now getting to the point I can harvest in T4 zones, so I can't make any conclusions about the ratio in T4/5. As I have brought up in other threads also, Test runs under a different set of rules. It's geared towards advancing people faster, and that means things on Test server tend to have higher ratio's. You get 50% bonus xp on Test server, and it's not too hard to imagine that loot/harvest ratio's are also higher so that folks can somewhat keep in up to date gear.</span><div></div>

[Kwoung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Evadne wrote:<BR>T1 and T2 rare drops are more common than t3, which is more common than t4, and so on.  The idea is that you grown out of t1 and t2 so fast.  <BR><BR>But, the combat changes make better armor, better spells more....necessary.<BR><BR>~Eva<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually Tier 1,2&3 are the same commonability, Tier 4,5 are just slightly rarer. No matter the ratio this will make ALL TIER RARES MUCH MORE COMMON.</P> <P>Take what the OP posted, subtract maybe 2 rares and that's what she woulda got for Tier 5 in that short time, definately too much.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You have not harvested T5 on Test have you?</P> <P>Being a bored level 50, I do a lot of it.. a real lot actually. 5 rares in a 3 hour period is not normal... by a long shot. I can get 3 rares in a good day, if I am really luck if I spend the whole day doing it. The "average" I have seen, is about 1 rare or semi-rare per 2 hours harvesting, that is any rare, not just what you are looking for at the moment. So in 3 weeks time of pretty much non-stop harvesting, I have managed to upgrade all my T5 spells and have a couple rubies left over. Keep in mind, this is on Test where I am normally the only person in the zone harvesting, no competition whatsoever.</P> <P>Also as Eva pointed out, these rares are now required, if you plan on not getting totally owned when you go hunting. I think the drop rate is fine, but one thing is for sure, rares are no longer a sellable item.. I [Removed for Content] when I see them on the vendor now for more than a few silver. Heck, my wife is using her ebons to make stuff for her apartment anymore.. hehe. (ps: she has also spent hundreds of hours harvesting)</P>

[Tudd]

"Heck, my wife is using her ebons to make stuff for her apartment anymore.. hehe. (ps: she has also spent hundreds of hours harvesting)" That's actually great news to hear. I once asked a person if they knew how much the rent reduction on an ebon chandelier was. The response I got was "Why would anyone waste an ebon on a chandelier?" <div></div>

[Nitefl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jvd wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Niteflyx wrote:<BR> <DIV>And the gap between Average Joe and Hardcore Raider lessens..</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>whats hte problem there ? Just because people have jobs and a life doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same chances as someone who is up all night and has no life   and no job .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personaly they should do a vitality system for rares  . One for harvesting and one for fighting. The higher your vitality is the moreo f a chance u have of getting the rare .  Just name it something else </DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My guild raids several times a week. We would raid more, but alas, we all have jobs, school, family and other responsibilities that limit us from doing so. I take offense at your insinuation.</P> <P>If I'm raiding and dedicating my time to earn my gear, it should be much better than someone banging rocks in Feerrott.<BR></P>

[j]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Niteflyx wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My guild raids several times a week. We would raid more, but alas, we all have jobs, school, family and other responsibilities that limit us from doing so. I take offense at your insinuation.</P> <P>If I'm raiding and dedicating my time to earn my gear, it should be much better than someone banging rocks in Feerrott.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Why ?  It makes more sense to find the ore in the ground than for some mob to have it .  Or do you think these mobs are in the mines looking for rubys and other rare items ? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't see why you deserve a rare more than I do . I'm not a raider  , I'm a quester and instead of doing the same thing over and over again I like to do diffrent things .Why aren't the mobs and quests i'm doing giving me these rares ? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No  harvesting them is the best way to spread them out. Anyone who spent a few mins while lvling up  to lvl up thier harvesting would be fine </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Prices right now are down right crazy . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Idealy we should have </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>tier 2  should be in the low  silver as normaly that is how much you have at those lvls . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tier 3 should be at the high silver / low gold </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tier 4 should be in the middle  around 30-60g i'd say </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>tier 5 should be 1 p  and so on .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its actually what people can afford to pay  with out having to raid  all the time .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After all sony is expecting this to be base line now . So everyone should have an equal shot at getting them</DIV>

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kwoung wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Evadne wrote:<BR>T1 and T2 rare drops are more common than t3, which is more common than t4, and so on.  The idea is that you grown out of t1 and t2 so fast. <BR><BR>But, the combat changes make better armor, better spells more....necessary.<BR><BR>~Eva<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually Tier 1,2&3 are the same commonability, Tier 4,5 are just slightly rarer. No matter the ratio this will make ALL TIER RARES MUCH MORE COMMON.</P> <P>Take what the OP posted, subtract maybe 2 rares and that's what she woulda got for Tier 5 in that short time, definately too much.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You have not harvested T5 on Test have you?</P> <P>Being a bored level 50, I do a lot of it.. a real lot actually. 5 rares in a 3 hour period is not normal... by a long shot. I can get 3 rares in a good day, if I am really luck if I spend the whole day doing it. The "average" I have seen, is about 1 rare or semi-rare per 2 hours harvesting, that is any rare, not just what you are looking for at the moment. So in 3 weeks time of pretty much non-stop harvesting, I have managed to upgrade all my T5 spells and have a couple rubies left over. Keep in mind, this is on Test where I am normally the only person in the zone harvesting, no competition whatsoever.</P> <P>Also as Eva pointed out, these rares are now required, if you plan on not getting totally owned when you go hunting. I think the drop rate is fine, but one thing is for sure, rares are no longer a sellable item.. I [Removed for Content] when I see them on the vendor now for more than a few silver. Heck, my wife is using her ebons to make stuff for her apartment anymore.. hehe. (ps: she has also spent hundreds of hours harvesting)</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>LOL so now they all start coming out of the woodwork! And just 1 day before release too how generous, well thank you for your test feedback sir, we've only been asking for hmmm 2 weeks now. And btw 1 rare in 2 hours average is still too high, especially if your target or specific gathering.</DIV>

[Aszuth]

<P>Learn how to read, jesus....</P> <P>He said 5 in 3 hrs WAS NOT NORMAL, smart guy.</P>

[Im-post]

Well if my initial run was lucky then I guess pulling 3 rares in one minute (including two off one node) last night must be tantamount to hitting the lotto.  Just wanted to drop back into the thread and tell everyone thank sfor their input.  Looks like we have lots of folks on both sides of the issue.  However it pans out I wish you all luck and see ya on Live tommorrow as soon as the servers come back up.  I will be the High Elf in the Enchanted Lands rubbing his aching back from all the bending and stooping and pick swinging.  Becasue while I might not necessarily agree with or even like the overtweaked increase in drop rates, you can bet I'm gonna take advantage of it.

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aszuthan wrote:<BR> <P>Learn how to read, jesus....</P> <P>He said 5 in 3 hrs WAS NOT NORMAL, smart guy.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kwoung wrote:<BR><BR><STRONG>The "average" I have seen, is about 1 rare or semi-rare per 2 hours harvesting, that is any rare, not just what you are looking for at the moment.</STRONG> So in 3 weeks time of pretty much non-stop harvesting, I have managed to upgrade all my T5 spells and have a couple rubies left over. Keep in mind, this is on Test where I am normally the only person in the zone harvesting, no competition whatsoever<STRONG>.</STRONG> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I know he said 5 rares in 3 hours  that wasn't normal. Then I said 1 rare per 2 hours was still ALOT note he's also upgraded all his Tier 5 spells and had leftovers, can you do that on live in that time? I think NOT. I know how to read, do you?<BR>

[DRech]

Upon reading this forum, I picked up on a common theme - that most people want to be able to afford Legendary items. However, I think it has been overlooked that what makes Legendary items so special is that they are RARE or hard to get and that they are above common items in quality. Keeping that in mind, with an increase in Legendary items on the market, what would the value of common items do? It would go down. Why? Because better armor is all of a sudden much more common for a little extra gold. The entire purpose of having Legendary items is to be rare and not have many people have it. It is supposed to set apart the person who has those items and make them feel special because they worked hard to get it. Yes, people can complain that they don't like to craft and make money so they'll never be able to afford that armor. What does that do to the people that do work hard so they can afford it? It actually hurts them. No longer are they special and have an edge in combat because they spent time crafting and making money. I do not get to play EQII as much as I would like or spend as much time crafting as I would like, but I do take great pride in the armor I am going to make myself at level 30. I have been collecting and saving coin -  a plan I have had since July. Now, that special feeling of having this Legendary armor that not many others have is dissappearing. Now I am going to see hundreds of other characters running around with the same armor as mine. Now all I feel is disappointed that the last several months were an empty dream. So, I hope those that have been waiting for their Legendary items while not wanting to work to get them are happy. I belive SOE tried to remedy those players who say they do not get to play enough with Station Exchange a while ago. Now they are trying to fix it again on every server. Sorry, that was a very discombulated rant. <span><span>:smileyvery-happy: Also, look for prices to drop even more than they normally would in the first several weeks. All the players with level 50 characters will be playing them, not their rich alts <span>:smileyhappy:</span> </span></span> Rares are supposed to be rare and not many people are supposed to have them, hence they are called "rare." I didn't mean to offend anyone... hopefully I didn't... <div></div>

[j]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aszuthan wrote:<BR> <P>Learn how to read, jesus....</P> <P>He said 5 in 3 hrs WAS NOT NORMAL, smart guy.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kwoung wrote:<BR><BR><STRONG>The "average" I have seen, is about 1 rare or semi-rare per 2 hours harvesting, that is any rare, not just what you are looking for at the moment.</STRONG> So in 3 weeks time of pretty much non-stop harvesting, I have managed to upgrade all my T5 spells and have a couple rubies left over. Keep in mind, this is on Test where I am normally the only person in the zone harvesting, no competition whatsoever<STRONG>.</STRONG> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I know he said 5 rares in 3 hours  that wasn't normal. Then I said 1 rare per 2 hours was still ALOT note he's also upgraded all his Tier 5 spells and had leftovers, can you do that on live in that time? I think NOT. I know how to read, do you?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not really  laslt night i pulled 2 glimmering flowers and a glimmering stone all in 1 hour . This was on live servers in el . So things like that do happen even  with the old numbers<BR>

[EQoobTa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DRech21 wrote:<BR>Upon reading this forum, I picked up on a common theme - that most people want to be able to afford Legendary items. However, I think it has been overlooked that what makes Legendary items so special is that they are RARE or hard to get and that they are above common items in quality. Keeping that in mind, with an increase in Legendary items on the market, what would the value of common items do? It would go down. Why? Because better armor is all of a sudden much more common for a little extra gold. The entire purpose of having Legendary items is to be rare and not have many people have it. It is supposed to set apart the person who has those items and make them feel special because they worked hard to get it. Yes, people can complain that they don't like to craft and make money so they'll never be able to afford that armor. What does that do to the people that do work hard so they can afford it? It actually hurts them. No longer are they special and have an edge in combat because they spent time crafting and making money. I do not get to play EQII as much as I would like or spend as much time crafting as I would like, but I do take great pride in the armor I am going to make myself at level 30. I have been collecting and saving coin -  a plan I have had since July. Now, that special feeling of having this Legendary armor that not many others have is dissappearing. Now I am going to see hundreds of other characters running around with the same armor as mine. Now all I feel is disappointed that the last several months were an empty dream. So, I hope those that have been waiting for their Legendary items while not wanting to work to get them are happy. I belive SOE tried to remedy those players who say they do not get to play enough with Station Exchange a while ago. Now they are trying to fix it again on every server.<BR><BR>Sorry, that was a very discombulated rant. <SPAN><SPAN>:smileyvery-happy:<BR><BR>Also, look for prices to drop even more than they normally would in the first several weeks. All the players with level 50 characters will be playing them, not their rich alts <SPAN>:smileyhappy:</SPAN><BR></SPAN></SPAN><BR>Rares are supposed to be rare and not many people are supposed to have them, hence they are called "rare."<BR><BR>I didn't mean to offend anyone... hopefully I didn't...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Please do your homework.  Obviously you're not a newb to this game so you should be able to understand much of what is about to change starting tomorrow.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are mainly two reasons these rares are becoming so much more accessible to everyone.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First, not having gear and spells of the rare variety was keeping some ppl from enjoying some of the content that was out there.  I think this was mainly an issue with toons under the level of 30 or so and while I doubt that I'd have ever found a pick up raid group to take down Braegana or Ladon it didn't matter cause I never had the gear and spells on any of my toons to have stood a chance anyway.  Most raid mobs below Grimfeather were usually hanging around for hours until some high level player saw them and soloed them.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Finally and most importantly, with the new Combat Changes that are being released with Live Update 13 the environment will be centered around haivng Adept quality spells and Treasured/Legendary gear.  Any toon with less will be found wanting in groups and especially while solo.  They have raised the bar on what we as players should strive for in order to simply be average.  In order to achieve average we need to be able to get our hands on that quality of spell and gear and with the current drop rate it's almost impossible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a more personal note, I'm sorry you spent so much time farming and crafting to get a whole set of rare armor at 30, I wish all my time spent crafting and farming could've at least netted me an Adept 3 pet and as far as I'm concerned you should consider yourself lucky because most people can go through a whole tier and never find anything rarer than that stuff you make extracts with.  </DIV>

[DRech]

I hardly find making it easier to get good equipment "raising the bar." I do know a number of people who are content with adventuring with Handcrafted items instead of Legendary or even Fabled. Also, you do not need to run around and harvest rares. I've probably only harvested 4 rares in the game and I hardly ever harvest (never found a rare in anything but T2). I simply buy the rares on the broker. Believe it or not there are large profit margins to be made in rare-item making. You just have to start off small by selling Handcrafted items then invest in a rare to make more profit. By the way, I hope all the people who are excited about the "non-rare" rares are right; I hope that it doesn't have any negative effects on the game at all and it doesn't make those with Legendary armor feel less special about it. I hope you're right... Eh, enough arguing about this anyway. How about doing something with that Alcohol Tolerance skill? <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div>

[Keegant]

<DIV>Those rares you bought off the broker were most likly gathered by botters or raided for by plat farmers. In the current state of the game you have to be one or the other to have rares to sell on the broker, other than the occaisional lottery winning gather or hardcore raider extra.</DIV>

[Keegant]

To expand on my last post. I gathered from over 3000 nodes before I got my first rare. I kept count on sheets of paper that are now filled will ticks. I have gotten a total of 4 rares from the over 5000 nodes that I have gathered from. I got that many rares my first week raiding. I no longer gather. There is no point. If I want raws, I buy them on the broker, if I want rares, I raid. As of tomorow, I am going to go back to gathering.

[Tudd]

<span><blockquote><hr>OperationsX wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Kwoung wrote: <blockquote> <hr> OperationsX wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Evadne wrote:T1 and T2 rare drops are more common than t3, which is more common than t4, and so on.  The idea is that you grown out of t1 and t2 so fast. But, the combat changes make better armor, better spells more....necessary.~Eva <hr> </blockquote> <p>Actually Tier 1,2&3 are the same commonability, Tier 4,5 are just slightly rarer. No matter the ratio this will make ALL TIER RARES MUCH MORE COMMON.</p> <p>Take what the OP posted, subtract maybe 2 rares and that's what she woulda got for Tier 5 in that short time, definately too much.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>You have not harvested T5 on Test have you?</p> <p>Being a bored level 50, I do a lot of it.. a real lot actually. 5 rares in a 3 hour period is not normal... by a long shot. I can get 3 rares in a good day, if I am really luck if I spend the whole day doing it. The "average" I have seen, is about 1 rare or semi-rare per 2 hours harvesting, that is any rare, not just what you are looking for at the moment. So in 3 weeks time of pretty much non-stop harvesting, I have managed to upgrade all my T5 spells and have a couple rubies left over. Keep in mind, this is on Test where I am normally the only person in the zone harvesting, no competition whatsoever.</p> <p>Also as Eva pointed out, these rares are now required, if you plan on not getting totally owned when you go hunting. I think the drop rate is fine, but one thing is for sure, rares are no longer a sellable item.. I [Removed for Content] when I see them on the vendor now for more than a few silver. Heck, my wife is using her ebons to make stuff for her apartment anymore.. hehe. (ps: she has also spent hundreds of hours harvesting)</p> <hr> </blockquote> <div>LOL so now they all start coming out of the woodwork! And just 1 day before release too how generous, well thank you for your test feedback sir, we've only been asking for hmmm 2 weeks now. And btw 1 rare in 2 hours average is still too high, especially if your target or specific gathering.</div><hr></blockquote></span>No one on Test owes you ANY sort of explanation or information on what drop rates have been. As I already said, you want to know what's going on, then you log onto Test and find out for yourself. You do realize you just ridiculed someone for not providing feedback "we've been asking for" when you could have been on Test yourself for those few weeks, and providing feedback to this board yourself? I'm not sure you understand how you just made yourself look. <div></div>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tuddar wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kwoung wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Evadne wrote:<BR>T1 and T2 rare drops are more common than t3, which is more common than t4, and so on.  The idea is that you grown out of t1 and t2 so fast. <BR><BR>But, the combat changes make better armor, better spells more....necessary.<BR><BR>~Eva<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually Tier 1,2&3 are the same commonability, Tier 4,5 are just slightly rarer. No matter the ratio this will make ALL TIER RARES MUCH MORE COMMON.</P> <P>Take what the OP posted, subtract maybe 2 rares and that's what she woulda got for Tier 5 in that short time, definately too much.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You have not harvested T5 on Test have you?</P> <P>Being a bored level 50, I do a lot of it.. a real lot actually. 5 rares in a 3 hour period is not normal... by a long shot. I can get 3 rares in a good day, if I am really luck if I spend the whole day doing it. The "average" I have seen, is about 1 rare or semi-rare per 2 hours harvesting, that is any rare, not just what you are looking for at the moment. So in 3 weeks time of pretty much non-stop harvesting, I have managed to upgrade all my T5 spells and have a couple rubies left over. Keep in mind, this is on Test where I am normally the only person in the zone harvesting, no competition whatsoever.</P> <P>Also as Eva pointed out, these rares are now required, if you plan on not getting totally owned when you go hunting. I think the drop rate is fine, but one thing is for sure, rares are no longer a sellable item.. I [Removed for Content] when I see them on the vendor now for more than a few silver. Heck, my wife is using her ebons to make stuff for her apartment anymore.. hehe. (ps: she has also spent hundreds of hours harvesting)</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>LOL so now they all start coming out of the woodwork! And just 1 day before release too how generous, well thank you for your test feedback sir, we've only been asking for hmmm 2 weeks now. And btw 1 rare in 2 hours average is still too high, especially if your target or specific gathering.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></SPAN>No one on Test owes you ANY sort of explanation or information on what drop rates have been. As I already said, you want to know what's going on, then you log onto Test and find out for yourself.<BR><BR>You do realize you just ridiculed someone for not providing feedback "we've been asking for" when you could have been on Test yourself for those few weeks, and providing feedback to this board yourself?<BR><BR>I'm not sure you understand how you just made yourself look.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>wow on every post u are so negative...<BR>

[Amise]

<span><blockquote><hr>JNewby wrote:<blockquote>wow on every post u are so negative... </blockquote><div></div><hr></blockquote>So?  You appear to be stalking the guy, I've just watched you post a whiny complaint to everything he's posted since he disagreed with you in your thread that got locked. hi, grow up</span><div></div>

[Tudd]

"wow on every post u are so negative..." Get lost kid. And wipe your nose while your at it. <div></div>

[DRech]

In response to Keegantir's post: It sounds like to you have had extremely bad luck.  I know for a fact that I've harvested from much less than 1,000 nodes, but I have mangaged to get around 4 rares (possibly 5 or 6...  I don't recall).  However, when I am harvesting, I do not get in the mind-set that I am going to find rares. If I find a rare, great. If I don't, no big deal. I truly believe a game like EQII was made so that people enjoy the game from the first level through level 50 and beyond. It seems to me that MMORPGs are different than most video games. Most video games tend to have a certain goal or an "end" that you are supposed to reach. Games such as EQII are much different. Players aren't supposed to rush through levels powerleveling. They're supposed to enjoy the game at each level and leveling should be a "side effect" of having fun. It seems to me the designers of the game would not have spent so much time on the level of detail of everything in the game if they wanted you to rush to level 50.  I feel that people complaining about the rares "not being rare enough" is very much related to this. People want rare items and they want them now. They are not willing to wait for them or even, *gasp* EARN them. They do not want to go through the game enjoying it from day to day without having the gear that someone else has that they want. They don't want to go several days gathering nodes without finding rares. Perhaps I am just upset that I have worked since June on making armor to sell so that I may one day have enough coin to buy myself Legendary gear. Now it doesn't seem as special. Obviously people are concerned about the inflated prices on rares in the game. This inflation, according to Basic Economics 101, is a "demand-pull" inflation. This means that because people are willing to pay the prices, the prices will keep climbing. As long as someone pays for that ridiculously expensive rare, people will keep raising the price until people decide the price is too high. This has the greatest effect on the lower level tiers with many level 50 players' lower level alts running around and they can afford those insane prices. They are the people that are causing most of the inflation. I agree with others that the lower tiers do need to be a bit more common, but certainly not as common as the imbuement flowers, teeth, stones, fish scales, etc. Hopefully, this will be their strategy, because drastically changing the number or rares all across the board is certain to screw up an economy. Also, I don't think as many people as you think use "bots." I can't be certain, but I certainly don't think that half the EQII population is playing the game illegally. The argument that people think it's too hard to get rares not very good I'm afraid. Couldn't the same apply to getting platinum? I have considered petitioning SOE to give out plat more easily, but I don't think I'll get it. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div>

[G3M]

Okay, I am a harvester, I enjoy harvesting. I'm also a crafter and an adventurer, I make money from all three methods of making money. I also play on test a fair bit. From my experience, T1 rares drop more often than T2 rares and so on, so the higher the tier, the less often the rares drop. That's just my experience anyway. Like I say, I enjoy harvesting and I do it every chance I get. Based on my experience, I have no problem with the increased rare drops, which should be obvious. :p. In any case, I think it's good that T1 rares drops as often as they do for me because they should sell cheaper on the broker and make it a lot easier for lowbies to get legendary items. It also makes sense to me that rares drop less often at higher tiers because high levelled players ought to be able to afford higher prices. And if the rares drop less often at higher tiers, they should cost more to buy off broker imo, but not as much as they cost at the moment on live servers. Certain people may well disagree with me here, that's fine with me, but as a crafter, harvester and adventurer, I agree with the whole thing. Especially since the combat and con systems will be drastically changed, and the game will get tougher, it's necessary to make rares drop more often as we will be needing more legendary items to help play the game more efficiently imo. I won't even touch on the subject of the market stability with a bargepole <img src="/smilies/1069449046bcd664c21db15b1dfedaee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <b>P.S. the above is just my opinion, based on my experiences on test, nothing more, nothing less.</b> <div></div>

[xIC]

<P>right now 1 ebon cluster selling on my server for an average of 4p.  It takes i think 7 ebons to complete a full set of armor.  Tell me how many average players have 24 p?  I rememeber before joining a raiding guild how [Removed for Content] hard it was to even get 1p let alone 24.  Nuff said,</P> <P>Remember the economy will always balance out.  With the decreased prices comes increased business.  The two will equal out.  Its called the law of supply and demand.  Most are just angry that they arent going to bank big time on a single rare.  Crafters should not fear this.  The only ones complaining should be the ones that treat harvesting like the lottery.</P> <P>Demonslayor</P>

[Kwoung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV>LOL so now they all start coming out of the woodwork! And just 1 day before release too how generous, well thank you for your test feedback sir, we've only been asking for hmmm 2 weeks now. And btw 1 rare in 2 hours average is still too high, especially if your target or specific gathering.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>ROFLMAO... Your attitude and post is EXACTLY why I keep most of my feedback on the private testers board instead of this mess of a forum. You want to know drop rates and have been waiting 2 weeks, then get off your lazy azz and go look if it means that much to you. Also, you obviously didn't comprehend what I said earlier...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ie: I was the only one in the zone harvesting, so I could clear a pretty large section personally before repop (like the entire front section of LS, half of rivervale, etc).. and in that entire section of the zone, one rare might drop in a two hour period. Maybe people like you want to sell them for insane prices, but people like me who made level 40 sage off of self harvested components and have only seen a single rare eve,r before this change, like it a lot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides, since you obviously didn't log into Test to check harvesting, I will take it for granted you haven't a clue what combat is like now either and how much adept 3 skills and spells will be required to get the same results you used to get with app 3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You want rares though, then go hunt down those rares for the master 3 spells. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Nitefl]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xICEx wrote:<BR> <P>right now 1 ebon cluster selling on my server for an average of 4p.  It takes i think 7 ebons to complete a full set of armor.  Tell me how many average players have 24 p?  I rememeber before joining a raiding guild how [Removed for Content] hard it was to even get 1p let alone 24.  Nuff said,</P> <P>Remember the economy will always balance out.  With the decreased prices comes increased business.  The two will equal out.  Its called the law of supply and demand.  Most are just angry that they arent going to bank big time on a single rare.  Crafters should not fear this.  The only ones complaining should be the ones that treat harvesting like the lottery.</P> <P>Demonslayor</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>"Average Players"...should the 'average player' have a full set of Ebon?</DIV>

[Tudd]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Niteflyx wrote:<div> <blockquote> <hr> xICEx wrote: <div></div> <p>right now 1 ebon cluster selling on my server for an average of 4p.  It takes i think 7 ebons to complete a full set of armor.  Tell me how many average players have 24 p?  I rememeber before joining a raiding guild how [Removed for Content] hard it was to even get 1p let alone 24.  Nuff said,</p> <p>Remember the economy will always balance out.  With the decreased prices comes increased business.  The two will equal out.  Its called the law of supply and demand.  Most are just angry that they arent going to bank big time on a single rare.  Crafters should not fear this.  The only ones complaining should be the ones that treat harvesting like the lottery.</p> <p>Demonslayor</p> <hr> </blockquote>"Average Players"...should the 'average player' have a full set of Ebon?</div><hr></blockquote> Believe it or not, average players do eventually become above average players. Some of them eventually even join raiding guilds.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Tuddar on <span class=date_text>09-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:09 AM</span>

[Lyasa]

sunday, on live i harvested for 1 hour. i got 5 glowing items, 1 blackened iron, and 1 sisal root. 7 rares in 1/3 amount of time as the OP.... and this was on live, <DIV>difference being i was harvesting the entire time, but 3 of them came w/in 5 mins. some people get lucky on occasion. maybe he did the same... anyone else have similar luck on test or live?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nitefl]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fenrihr wrote:<BR>sunday, on live i harvested for 1 hour. i got 5 glowing items, 1 blackened iron, and 1 sisal root. 7 rares in 1/3 amount of time as the OP.... and this was on live, <DIV>difference being i was harvesting the entire time, but 3 of them came w/in 5 mins. some people get lucky on occasion. maybe he did the same... anyone else have similar luck on test or live?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well lower tier stuff is more common than t5 stuff for example..plus the extract/imbueing items seem to drop more frequently than the true rares..I'd call them uncommon.</DIV>

[On3iron]

<P>I'm what many of you would call a "hardcore harvester". I usually harvest 5 - 7 hours a day 4 - 5 days a week. I love to harvest and it's my only way of making money in the game since I don't craft and only kill things to make the next level.</P> <P>That said, I agree that the current prices for rares on broker are to high (they should at least be halved). BUT, what I'm afraid of is that the rares will become so common that they will go the way of the luminous stones/flowers which you can buy for 2gp on my server... I don't think anyone will be served by that.</P> <P>So my 2cp is make the rares more common, but not TO common. :smileyhappy:</P>

[Cuz]

Spent a good 2 hours on live harvesting and got 1 ruby and one luminous flower. I think this works out ok.

[Nitefl]

<DIV>Got 2 T6 rares in about 10 harvests. Ugh.</DIV>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Niteflyx wrote:<BR> <DIV>Got 2 T6 rares in about 10 harvests. Ugh.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I got less then that in about 4 hours harvesting t5. So feel lucky.</DIV>

[BlitzDog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Niteflyx wrote:<BR> <DIV>Got 2 T6 rares in about 10 harvests. Ugh.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I got 6 ebons off 1node. We are pimps

[Ethelwo]

<P>Ok yesterday after the release of DoF 28 members of my guild (including me) spent 2 hours harvesting. Together we had a combined 56 hours of harvesting. Our reason for doing this was to test the drop rate of rares to see if it had improved as stated in the developer post.</P> <P>After a combined 56 hours of harvesting we found a lambent stone, a lambent flower and one rough pearl. Thats all 54 hours of harvesting seems to provide in the way of rares after the release of DoF and the stated increase in rare drop rate. This is nothing short then a slap in the face to all players who play the game. SOE has the absolute worst rewards system of all MMORPGs I have ever played. It will be this completely god awful reward system the will kill this game, no matter what else SOE does. </P>

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ethelwolf wrote:<BR> <P>Ok yesterday after the release of DoF 28 members of my guild (including me) spent 2 hours harvesting. Together we had a combined 56 hours of harvesting. Our reason for doing this was to test the drop rate of rares to see if it had improved as stated in the developer post.</P> <P>After a combined 56 hours of harvesting we found a lambent stone, a lambent flower and one rough pearl. Thats all 54 hours of harvesting seems to provide in the way of rares after the release of DoF and the stated increase in rare drop rate. This is nothing short then a slap in the face to all players who play the game. SOE has the absolute worst rewards system of all MMORPGs I have ever played. It will be this completely god awful reward system the will kill this game, no matter what else SOE does. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That must indicate that Tier 6 has a rarer percentage than the other tiers, similar as Tier 1-3 being easier than Tier 4-5. If this is true than GOOD.

[TheyLi]

<P>You can't assume the economy is screwed just because you got a bunch of T1 rares. How I think it works now is that the T1 rares were made to be pretty common, since people spend such little time in that tier and you don't get much use out of what can be made. Then as you move on to higher tiers, the rare harvest rate gets progressively lower, which makes sense since you spend more and more time in each tier and the rares are worth more money the higher you get.</P> <P> I spent about 2.5 hours harvesting in Nektulos last night and got a Steel & a fir, and a severed bone beforehand while raising foresting. A far cry from someone getting 7 rares in one session in T1, so i'm pretty sure the tier now has an effect on the rare harvest rate. It's a positive change, the way it was before at lower tiers was just asinine; nobody could afford rare crafted items when you need them unless you're a rich re-roll. Now people can actually go out and harvest the rares they need for upgrades rather than having to resort to IGE or something just to compete under the new combat rules.</P><p>Message Edited by TheyLive on <span class=date_text>09-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:17 PM</span>

[Arieadn]

<P>wow, quite the arguement over this one. Personally, I think that yes, rares are a bit too rare, I'm a 49 Fury, 34 carpenter, and owner of a three room house. I make rare furniture for my home and for other peoples' status cost homes. Sure its not going to make great armor or weapons, just reduce the status cost per week so I can show off my Lore Trophies, plague event journal, heritage items, and quest rewards in general - not everyone's idea of how to enjoy the game, but it's mine and a few others. </P> <P>It would be really nice to see rare prices halved so I can continue to enjoy my hobby at a reasonable price, or perhaps get rare weapons and armor for my alts once theyre high enough rather than waiting for the two or 3 people with rares on the market to get bored of their overpriced roots not selling after a week or two before slashing prices.</P> <P>Oh and for the record, on the arguement of who makes more money, crafters versus adventurers - I say raiders :smileywink:. Its an interesting arguement, sure crafters sometimes get a decent haul, but it usually goes backinto fuels, same goes for adventuring, I have a guildmate thats 50 but dirt poor for all the poisons and consumables he buys for fighting in the field. Luck of the draw and the broker perhaps...</P>

[Kegofbud]

I've harvested a couple hours since this change went live and I still havem't gotten a tier 5 or 6 rare. So, I don't think they made a change big enough to call it the end of the world. I hope they are showing up more.

[OperationsX]

Already 9 Cobalts on the broker, cheapest 2p30g and the guy has 2. So to close this thread up "much" is indeed ahellavalot more. 11 ironwood going down to 80g already and 5 pearls as well, although pearls is staying very high in price (4p+)

[Cuz]

<P>To me "much more" means .5% better chance than before. The ruby I got was the 7th on the broker, the 6 other was from the same raider. He actually bought mine so he could have the monopoly.</P>

[LenaDarksi]

<DIV>This is a good thing, im only level 25, a new player, and my spells where already a platinum, how the heck do people expect low level people to pay that kind of money? I've not seen 30 gold let along a plat, people need to stop being greedy, this is good for balancing the econmy and people who arent happy about price gouging can leave.</DIV>

[Astery]

i fully agree with the original post. this is what gonna happen:- the economy is given, and most of the crafters tuned their prices according to.- if devs change much, prices gonna collapse, crafters will lose their investments in rare components.- crafters get upset depending on the loss, and they must face a long period while the market settles again.- there wont be goods produced, many of the crafters are waiting, since they already lost (see above)- personally i stopped producing for the market, i just make legendary items for myself.- only the new generation of the crafters are producing goods in amounts, since they dont know how it was before...changing once can still be OK (if the above mentioned things do not matter...), but playing with the rare drop rate must not be a daily action!

[LenaDarksi]

<DIV>being from SWG where crafters rule the game, i cant seem to find sympathy for greedy crafters who want to lock the market with high prices because they hoard tons of rares.  Firstly, like i said it screws over all the newbies and secondly it makes it harder for new crafters to break into the market and both problems are solved now.</DIV>

[Timaarit]

For what I can see, the only ones hoarding rares are raiding guilds. In my server, some t5 rares have been placed to the market now and for example price of cedar went down drastically from 70g to 15g at best. Now it has stabilized to around 25 to 30g. But other rare prices are still high though there are a lot on sale. None of this is the fault of crafters but just greedy people. I saw 10 rubies listed starting from 1g 46g down to 1p 36g with pricing at 50s to 1g interval. No greedy crafters there but greedy adventurers. And as a crafter, of course I buy the 'low' price rares. But then again, I sell them with fixed profit so it is unprofitable for me to gouge the prices because then I would sell less. When the cedar was at 15g, I sold 10 to 15 items per day. Now it is at 30g and I sell 3 to 6 items. I was making a lot more profit when price was down. So look in the mirror. One of the reasons for high prices is found there. PS. I have met one adventurer who tried to sell me cedar for 40g when I was selling the imbued product for 30g. <div></div>

[JonnyBlaaze]

<P>Ive personally spent 12 or so hours mining without seeing 1 rare. So guess its just luck of the draw.</P> <P> </P> <P>Have also killed anywhere from 12-15 named mobs without seeing 1 master chest drop.</P>