Crafting and Equipment Change

[Ethelwo]

<DIV>Ok I have thought long and hard about this and it seem to me the following ideas will make the game much better for harvesters, crafters and Adventurers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Idea 1:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make all harvested extract items like glowing or luminous stones, flowers, teeth and others "Treasured Items". Right now the are legendary, but do not produce legendary quality items in and of themselves, so Legendary doesn't fit these item types. Treasured would be far more appropriate to these harvested items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Idea 2:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When one of these items is used in crafting a piece of armor, jewelry or weapon in addition to adding an effect it also turns that crafted equipment into a Treasured Item. This will allow crafters to produce some treasured items to sell and make their world much better. ( I dont craft myself). Plus we all know that handcrafted items will be next to worthless after the combat change. Some equipment crafted with these items will not gain a proc or a stat increase, but will become treasured instead of handcrafted ( A neckless or a pair of boots for instance).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These two simple changes will revitalize the crafting situation once the upcoming change is put into effect. It will also allow adventurers access to player made treasured gear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What do you all think of these two suggestions?  Will it make the game better or have no effect on game play?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zandof]

<DIV>First off this is not in testing...  second... those are horrible ideas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are legendary because they add procs which is a general trademark of some legendary and most fabled items.  Now you imbuing you're crappy handcrafted out of non-rare item pieces... makes them a little better so you you'reself downgrade its potential. </DIV>

[Kenazeer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zandof wrote:<BR> <DIV>First off this is not in testing...  second... those are horrible ideas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are legendary because they add procs which is a general trademark of some legendary and most fabled items.  Now you imbuing you're crappy handcrafted out of non-rare item pieces... makes them a little better so you you'reself downgrade its potential. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't think you understood his suggestion, or understand the current system even.</P> <P>Currently luminous, glowing, etc....items are tagged as legendary. This tag has no effect whatsoever on the quality of the product on which the extract is used. A handcrafted fulginate BP when imbued is still handcrafted; imbuing it with a "legendary" extract does nothing to the armor except add the proc. It neither upgrades or downgrades the actual item in regards to quality. Further, you cannot "imbue" armor such as gloves, boots, etc..</P> <P>Proposed: Make the harvested items treasured, but make this tag mean something. For example, in regards to armor, an "imbued" handcrafted pair of fulginate boots would become tagged as treasured but NOT gain an additional proc or stats. The current effect, as far as BP, legs, rings, wand, etc...would go unchanged.</P> <P>I like this idea a lot actually. I think it would help crafters and adventurers alike.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>08-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:48 AM</span>

[Spag]

<DIV>I cant say that I do, as it would cause all of our final products to be useless unless imbued.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its the same as the recommendation for sages to be able to use extracts to make their app4s into adept1s.  The app4s will still not sell, as everyone will expect you to make them into adept1s which would be just as good as the mob loot but cost a great deal more to make.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Spagma on <span class=date_text>08-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:27 PM</span>

[Kenazeer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Spagma wrote:<BR> <DIV>I cant say that I do, as it would cause all of our final products to be useless unless imbued. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its the same as the recommendation for sages to be able to use extracts to make their app4s into adept1s.  The app4s will still not sell, as everyone will expect you to make them into adept1s which would be just as good as the mob loot but cost a great deal more to make. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Spagma on <SPAN class=date_text>08-25-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>03:27 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Hmmm....Never really thought of it this way, and since I don't have an "imbuing" class, I really cant speak to it. Can you provide some examples of what you are saying? Maybe some armorers/weaponsmiths/tailors could speak up and say whether they sell any of the non-imbued versions of BP/Legs/Weapons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I definitely wouldn't want this to hurt tradeskillers....just thought it was a neat way to use all the extra "glowies" floating around and create a new more valuable class of armor. As it stands now it looks like the handcrsfted stuff might fair pretty poorly. That might make a dent in sales itself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>08-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:45 PM</span>

[Twobox]

<P>Well, once you get to the higher end mobs, you need "Legendary" or better weapons to hit them.</P> <P>The most viable place for the initiate raider to get Legendary weapons is from crafters.</P> <P>Your change seems to eliminate that important market. Why do that?</P> <P>Being "Treasured" seems to be nothing but eye-candy.</P> <P> </P>

[Kenazeer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Twobox wrote:<BR> <P>Well, once you get to the higher end mobs, you need "Legendary" or better weapons to hit them.</P> <P>The most viable place for the initiate raider to get Legendary weapons is from crafters.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Your change seems to eliminate that important market. Why do that?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Being "Treasured" seems to be nothing but eye-candy.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>How would this proposal to create treasured gear compete legendary crafting market? I don't see the connection, especially in light of your next statement.<BR></P> <DIV>Actually in the new combat revamp tier (even treasured) does matter. I think that is what the original poster was getting at. It is only slightly better, but nonetheless it is better. After the CC the "no-name" stuff is pretty much going to stink, handcrafted will be basically the bottom of the barrel, treasured will be the new "standard," and everything else is just a bonus. As a matter of fact I believe they are balancing the combat revamp (meaning the least you can have to be successful) around handcrafted gear and app2 spells/CAs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If, on further examiantion, the OPs idea isn't workable I still give him/her a big thumbs up for thinking innovatively. Heck, didn't Edison supposedly make 10,000 light bulbs before he got it right. Eventually, if enough people think outside the box and come up with new ideas we might hit on a gem. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <SPAN class=date_text>08-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:00 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>08-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:03 PM</span>

[Spag]

<P> </P> <P>Note I am a tailor as well as a sage.</P> <P>The real problem is that standard mob loot is better than standard handcrafted items.  In the current system this only affects stats, and even then the amount is small, but it still affects the market.  With the new system, treasured would be better over all than handcrafted, more than just stat wise, but all around.  This will hurt the standard handcrafted items more than they are now.  If the fix is to make imbuing the equalizing factor, remember that imbuing uses an uncommon harvest, it will increase the cost to produce by a large amount.  So basically artisans will have to utilize an uncommon item to be the same quality as common mob loot.  </P> <P>As is now, only certain non rare items sell, a bracer here or a helmet there.  Most of the stuff has mob loot competition that have better stats, and selling cheaper than what it costs to make.</P> <P>A real solution would be to change the order of importance.  Handcrafted items need to be better than common mob loot, stats and quality (with the new system).</P> <P>I would recommend something of the following order:</P> <P>treasured/ handcrafted / quested  / legendary / fabled / mythical</P>

[Ethelwo]

<DIV>The change is going to make hadcrafted items, even those that are imbued, the bottom least exceptable level of armor. Common items other then some jewelry is just vender trash. Ever fight with a sootfoot enforcer? It is a common item, but cant even land a blow on a regular Nighblood. People will wait and buy treasured items instead. In an earlier post I suggested that pristine quality items should be changed to Treasured Items. No one liked that either. So if you think I, or anyone else is going to waste a dime on handcrafted gear after this change you are saddly mistaken. Crafters have to be able to make some treasured items to stay in the game. How this comes about I dont care, but no one besides this non crafter is making any suggestions at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you have some suggestions then please make them, maybe crafting non-legendary gear will mean something again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's my oppinion that handcrafted is fine for leveling a crafter, but not fine for earning money as a crafter. This game will demand better gear then handcrafted after this change. Make a suggestion it won't kill ya. Even though you may get flamed. Who gives a dam.</DIV>

[EtoilePirate]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div>Hmmm....Never really thought of it this way, and since I don't have an "imbuing" class, I really cant speak to it. Can you provide some examples of what you are saying? Maybe some armorers/weaponsmiths/tailors could speak up and say whether they sell any of the non-imbued versions of BP/Legs/Weapons.</div> <hr></blockquote> Given the ease with which glowing (sparkling, glimmering, luminous) items are found in the world, I haven't sold, gifted, or been commissioned for a set of tailored armor that did not include imbued chest and legs.  And I'm only tailor 27 -- when people find out I'm not 29+, they go elsewhere for their T3 sets so that they can get imbued chest and legs.  This applies to standard sets.  I've only worked with a couple of rares in my time (and most of those are hex dolls anyway). As a consumer, I have non-imbued chest and legs but that's only because my friendly local armorer was about level 47 when I bought the fulginate set (for dirt cheap -- great bargain).  I keep meaning to ask him for a couple of imbued pieces but I never get around to it because he's in Qeynos and I can't just send over a mail with two flowers and a request.  As for weapons, as soon as imbuing came along, there stopped being any reason to buy non-imbued weapons.  Why bother, when chest drops and quested weapons were available anyway?  I mean ever since I got my PGT and SBD (shame on me, I still haven't finished my SSOY... must do that when I can log in again) I haven't used a crafted weapon anyway.  Which is too bad, in a way, because I LOVED the look of that pair of fulginate sais I got for free from a weaponsmith guildie.  Pointy, deadly, red handles... *sigh* Anyway, my point is that I don't understand how making imbued armor and weapons treasured hurts the tradeskillers any more than they were hurt by the introduction of imbuing in the first place.  Given that they're slightly rarer than the standard, and that for armorers and tailors only 2 of the 7 pieces can be imbued anyway, it makes sense to me.  I think he ones most hurt are weaponsmiths.</span><div></div>

[Swordmage]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Spagma wrote:<BR> <P>A real solution would be to change the order of importance.  Handcrafted items need to be better than common mob loot, stats and quality (with the new system).</P> <P>I would recommend something of the following order:</P> <P>treasured/ handcrafted / quested  / legendary / fabled / mythical</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I agree with this notion of changing the order. It really makes sense to me that a custom fitted, handcrafted piece of armor should fit better than something you strip off an Orc and thus interfere less with avoidance (one of the side effects for armor of higher quality, based on my experience testing the combat revamp, is more avoidance).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Handcrafted armor now is less attractive than before (the longer useful life of handcrafted used to be one of its selling points, and that is gone now too). We don't need the added market drag of lower quality. Heck, I would settle for treasured==handcrafted, but don't tell the developers that.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Swordmage on <span class=date_text>08-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:30 PM</span>