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Severed Ha
07-26-2005, 03:46 AM
<DIV>There any word on the Combat changes..  Been 2 weeks now since Moorgard posted this.....</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=58" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=58</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>Just wanted to let everyone know that there won't be a major update on Test this week. Live Update #12 will be going to Test next week (approximately 7/13), and then to the live servers the week after.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>Features include the reverse writ system, cross-zone group invites, and more!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>We will also be activating the new combat system on Test shortly, after we've played with it a bit more internally first.</FONT></DIV> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest II</FONT></P></DIV>

Cowdenic
07-26-2005, 03:54 AM
<P>No word on combat changes yet, They will be done in a couple weeks.</P> <P>First time I was told that? February of 2005. It has LONG since been a "couple of weeks". </P>

Wood
07-26-2005, 04:14 AM
<P>Yeah, this really sucks, too.  They've put off fixing a lot of classes (defilers) because this big "combat revamp" was coming  "soon".  Now it's almost a year since release and they haven't addresses class balance at all.</P> <P>Have they just decided this game isn't a money maker and are quietly letting it die?</P> <P>Woode</P><p>Message Edited by Wood on <span class=date_text>07-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:15 PM</span>

dadowar
07-26-2005, 04:25 AM
<DIV>OK,  just tell us if we are wasting money on Adept III spells, and Masters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will the changes be so drastic that Adepts and Masters will not matter?</DIV>

Cowdenic
07-26-2005, 04:43 AM
I tell you what I am giving it 60 days and then I am cancelling my account. I am sick of this shady two faced backstabbing line of [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] they give us. If I wanted that I would go to work, at least there I am making money.

Calthine
07-26-2005, 06:13 AM
Geez, folks.  They've said that the combat revamp is on the beta server.  They said it's taking longer than they anticipated to get it right.  Back off already.

Effulgen
07-26-2005, 08:36 AM
It took them 2 years to "get it right" in swg... <div></div>

ChrisRay
07-26-2005, 08:46 AM
<DIV>Would you rather them not fine tune the combat changes and release something that isnt properly tested?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

EtoilePirate
07-26-2005, 09:45 AM
<DIV>The Combat Changes are on the Beta server, and no-one who's testing them can tell you about it because of the NDA.  My suspicion -- which is only a suspicion -- is that after a couple of weeks of tweaking the system on Beta with mostly high-level players, they'll plop it onto Test where it'll get the thorough 1-45 shakedown, then after a couple of weeks on Test, to get out the last few bugs, it'll go live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, that's just my theory, based on how things tend to work and a bit of logical extrapolation from what I already know.  But it's the kind of thing that's going to be so utterly massive that really, everyone should rather they do it properly than do it quickly.</DIV>

Amise
07-26-2005, 10:37 AM
<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>dadowar wrote:<div>OK,  just tell us if we are wasting money on Adept III spells, and Masters.</div> <div> </div> <div>Will the changes be so drastic that Adepts and Masters will not matter?</div><hr></blockquote>The changes to spells  will mean that they no longer scale with level.  The only way to increase the effectiveness of a given spell will be to scribe a higher quality version of it.  Because many (most?) lines are being changed in some way the relative value of some adept III or Master upgrades might change.  You might find that some spells you have now that aren't worth upgrading might be more worth it after the changes.  Unfortunately there might also be situations where you have an adept III version of a spell that becomes less desireable after the changes.   But in general upgrading spells will still be worthwhile however at this stage it's impossible to tell how worthwhile for any particular spell. The changes will be here when they get here.  That's all we know and that's probably all we're gonna know.   I doubt we'll be given an ETA more than a week or so ahead of time. </span><div></div>

Cowdenic
07-26-2005, 01:04 PM
<P>You are absolutely right. The changes will be here when they will be here.</P> <P>2 observations.</P> <P>1. They could be more forthcoming with information such as what they are doing, and approximate times when they will be done, hell they could put a thread up with what they have done that week on it, that way people would know hey they are actually working on it, and update an ETA on it. I think what bothers people the most is not knowing anything.</P> <P>2. With the way they are all being about it, and their lack of customer service in general, how many people will remain? Sometimes I get the feeling they just want to shut this game down and are only going through the motions. </P>

Dasanhgul
07-26-2005, 01:11 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dadowar wrote:<BR> <DIV>OK,  just tell us if we are wasting money on Adept III spells, and Masters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will the changes be so drastic that Adepts and Masters will not matter?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I'm holding off on buying any spell or CA upgrades until it does come out... whenever that might be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Nazo
07-26-2005, 02:14 PM
<P>While the combat changes are not a part of the Desert of Flames release, they are only on the beta server at this point, and thus fall under the NDA. The reason we have an NDA is that we prefer pre-release gameplay elements not be discussed openly until they are in a state that we consider ready. <STRONG><U>The new combat stuff is on beta because it will be on the live servers by the time the expansion ships, so the only way players will be experiencing the DoF content is with the combat changes in effect.</U></STRONG> Having it on beta now just gives us some early feedback. Again, please keep in mind that beta has just started.</P> <P>The combat changes will be going to Test server after some additional data is completed, at which point they can be discussed openly. Please hold off on threads talking about actual experience with the changes until that point, as doing so will not present an accurate picture.</P> <P>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest II </P>

quetzaqotl
07-26-2005, 04:11 PM
<P>lol so there it is combat changes/spell changes in september aint that swell.</P> <P>Also they should post the spell changes they have in mind imo it was "promised" to us (the list of changes to spells etc) when moorg</P> <P>said we would get a revamp at lu6 so list those spells already and dont just show those changes to the lucky few, weve been waiting too long on them.</P> <DIV>I know those spell changes arent set atm and are bound to change but it would at least give us a clue what way were heading...</DIV><p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>07-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:28 AM</span>

Kenazeer
07-26-2005, 05:27 PM
<BR> <DIV>I predicted likey after Sep 10 over a month ago....Dang it sucks to be right in this case <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=54415#M54415" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=54415#M54415</A></DIV>

Kreegan
07-26-2005, 07:49 PM
<P>LOL so the changes are on th ebeta server becuase the expansion needs to be tested with the changes in place.  Now all you 'I told you so' types think that's a confirmation that the changes wont be on live until the expansion.  Did it never occur to you that by saying the changes will be on live 'by the time the expansion ships' means just that?  The changes could go in anytime before the expansion, not only just in time for the expansion.</P> <P>What size tin foil hat do you ..umm..people..wear?</P> <p>Message Edited by Kreegan on <span class=date_text>07-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:51 AM</span>

quetzaqotl
07-26-2005, 07:57 PM
the tin foil SOE provided us like 3-4 months ago its patented

Kenazeer
07-26-2005, 08:01 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kreegan wrote:<BR> <P>LOL so the changes are on th ebeta server becuase the expansion needs to be tested with the changes in place.  Now all you 'I told you so' types think that's a confirmation that the changes wont be on live until the expansion.</P> <P>What size tin foil hat do you ..umm..people..wear?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually if you read my post I said before the expansion but after Sept 10....for the reasons I cited....and the reasons I gave were not conspiracies. Perhaps you ought to read it before you commnet, but if you cannot be bothered I will summarize here. Combat balance will not result in new boxed sales, may result in the return of lapsed palyers, but will most definitely cause people to cancel (rightly or wrongly). As a producer the ways to mitigate this are limited:</P> <OL> <LI>Rolling out the combat balance sometime right after the renewal date for launch vets...ala the tenth of the month. This would give people a full month to consider the changes. However, people may cancel before DoF...read lost sales.</LI> <LI>Rolling out after Sept 10 would give people a month to consider the changes, but people would also have the potential of DoF on the horizon. </LI></OL> <P>In my estimation a rollout of combat changes after Sep 10 makes the most economic sense for SoE. Said it then and saying it again.  </P> <DIV>Edited for additional thoughts...</DIV> <DIV>We just have to keep in mind that SoE is in this to make money, and as much as they can. I don't mean this in a nefarious sense, it's just plain business. They make money from happy players (read continuing subscritions). The more happy players the more money they make. Their challenge then is to maximize profit by keeping the most number of people happy. Some may like to think game decisions such as combat balancing, broken spell fixes, broken class fixes exiist in a vacuum, but they don't. The devs backhandedly acknowledge this with statements to the effect that rushing a fix to a certain spell or class would lead to further problems. What they mean is that the fix would make more people unhappy than it would happy. Does one think that decisions such as the rollout of adventure zones and expansion packs are made <STRONG>without</STRONG> economic considerations? The same can be said for many of the changes they put in place, including the combat revamp. Economics is <STRONG>a</STRONG> consideration any successful businsess darn well better consider when they make any kind of decision, and SoE is no exception. This consideration may be weighed more heavily in certain circumstances, and in others it may be given little thought. If they are looking at changing a spell from 120-240 damage to 110-250 damage they probably aren't even going to <STRONG>conciosuly</STRONG> consider economics. However, don't beleive for a second that the producers wouldn't consult with marketing on <STRONG>major</STRONG> changes to the game, and this could/should include timing.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>07-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:40 AM</span>

bigmak20
07-26-2005, 09:18 PM
Aye; I've said it too.  Combat changes very near or same date as DoF release.  Will distract ppl unhappy with the changes with "ooooo new content". I'm just annoyed about the carrot and stick last 6 months and refusing to fix other broken issues the whole time. But oh well... I guess SOE's strategy worked.... I'm still here (looks up release date for DDO)

Naggyba
07-26-2005, 09:23 PM
I am really beginning to doubt ever seeing it on test.

Eyes_of_Truth
07-26-2005, 11:47 PM
<P>If it is working on DoF beta why cant it be put on test the i wonder...</P> <P>...im not gona argue this much but i have allways though test was to test stuff early...</P> <P>How could something not be ready for test? Is test suposed to be...um....the trial area kinda?</P> <P>Toodles!</P>

Goozman
07-27-2005, 07:56 AM
<DIV>Cuz it's not working as intended on the beta server :p</DIV>

Cecil_Stri
07-27-2005, 10:13 AM
<DIV>Thing i wanna know is exactly how long do they intend to test these changes.... I mean the expansion comes out in little more then a month and a half...  that doesn't leave much time to test such a massive change imo</DIV>

Lenda
07-27-2005, 08:54 PM
I agree with the poster above who said that too many 'broken' things have had to wait for the big combat/spell revamp.  It's easy to be patient while they get the revamp sorted out.  After all, it's a huge undertaking and most of us can understand that.  But it's not easy to wait patiently for 4 or 5 months for things that aren't part of 'balancing' the classes and have been broken for longer than that to get fixed.  I really don't like it that they've decided not to fix things that are badly broken sooner.

Tag
07-28-2005, 07:20 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <P>No word on combat changes yet, They will be done in a couple weeks.</P> <P>First time I was told that? February of 2005. It has LONG since been a "couple of weeks". </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Agree 100% at least they should let us know what their proposed changes are. Someone over at SOE is killing EQ2 either by their incompetence or actively making bad decisions. Don't try to milk 2 more monthe subscription fees from us tell us the sad truth about how crappy your revamp ideas are so we can cancel now.</P>

FelixDomesticus
07-28-2005, 02:00 PM
<span><blockquote><hr>Calthine wrote:Geez, folks.  They've said that the combat revamp is on the beta server.  They said it's taking longer than they anticipated to get it right.  Back off already. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Four months as almost totally broken class (mystic) tends to make me a bit impatient. They refused to fix haze by using reason: "patch is coming soon and it will include that change anyway". Haze change pretty much ruined mystic grouping and solo and we have waited 4 full months for that "coming soon" patch. And you think that we should back off?</span><div></div>

Vicio
07-28-2005, 02:18 PM
I'll continue to support Everquest 2 till I'm somewhat finished with Desert of Flames. After that I'm leaving. This game (and company) have been  playing on people's addictive personalities. Screw that, Xbox 360 is coming out soon enough<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>