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View Full Version : Utter lack of freedom, too much control... Change zone "requirements" to "recommendations"


Kulharr
01-28-2005, 06:48 AM
<DIV> <DIV>I have no problem with needing to complete a quest before your able to enter a zone but crap like "You cannot enter this zone unless you have # people"  It's just stupid and totally takes away from the immesivness of the world.   It could easily say "It is RECOMMENDED you have # people to enter this area"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what if I'm gonna go in and get owned, I would still like the option of entering and having a peek at what I may be up against on whether or not I decide to return or check the the lvl of the monsters in that zone so I can better plan the raid I'll need before returning... <BR></DIV> <DIV>This is more of an exploration thing than a solo content issue. I think I should be able to wander around cluelessly as I want. If I want to get my @$$ handed to me by going into a dungeon designed for groups, so be it. </DIV> <DIV><BR>I hate this feature with a passion... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm only lvl 23 and so far I've encountered 4 zones that I've not been allowed to enter because I didn't have the right ammount of people, 2 of them were in the sewers which I'll prolly never be able to visit because I haven't found a soul that has any interest or reason in checking out those zones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

aeio
01-28-2005, 09:44 AM
This is more of a technical issue than anything else.These are instances, which mean they are spawned and supported as zones on for every group who enters them. By allowing smaller groups in, it would substantially increase the number of instances in use for these zones, meaning a bigger load on the servers. This would like lead to fewer zones like this to support the same load. Which means you would be taking away group content from the game in order to support solo people exploring.I would like to see some of these places solo as much as anyone else... And it sounds like solo instances may be a possibility down the road, but these places were not designed from any aspect for a solo player to use... so it is not of much benefit for solo players to go there, and would just put an extra burden on the servers.

Tiberi
01-29-2005, 02:14 AM
<DIV> But they could make the zone based off of how many players are in your group so if your solo it spawns a zone that has a difficulty for solo players and adds a loot table to match.</DIV> <DIV>They did this in LDON in eqlive I know its a different game but its a hell of an idea for adding solo content to the game for casual players.</DIV>

Tatali
01-29-2005, 06:17 AM
<blockquote><hr>Tiberius wrote:<DIV> But they could make the zone based off of how many players are in your group so if your solo it spawns a zone that has a difficulty for solo players and adds a loot table to match.</DIV><DIV>They did this in LDON in eqlive I know its a different game but its a hell of an idea for adding solo content to the game for casual players.</DIV><hr></blockquote>They didn't do that in LDoN, and in fact at one point posted it would not be practical for them to do. It comes down to how they create zone, there really is no dynamic content within a zone. Each spawn is hand placed by a designer and there's a table of what can spawn from it. Likewise, treasure is done from a table based either on the mob itself or on the zone. The way they do it, they would need to design whole new zone templete for groups of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 players... which doesn't even take into account the classes for those templetes. While I agree they COULD have written the game to support more dynamic choices of spawns or loot, they opted not to for greater control over the content.

FunG
01-29-2005, 10:43 AM
<DIV>Side question here. does everyone in the grouped need to be flaged? I hope just the one needs to be flaged. If not I feal that it takes away from the game as you not only need to find a group (as I like to solo a lot), but you need to find a group that is all flaged. I did find a group to go into the light house, and they all had keys so I don't know, but going in there at lvl 20... they where all grey and it was boring.  so after that I have stoped trying to get flaged for zones I can go in with out 3+ ppl in a group.</DIV>

lastbra
01-30-2005, 07:46 AM
<DIV>hate this too i have 6 heritage quest  but cant complet ...need 3-6 ppl to zone in nevermind if you are lvl 50  you need @#$%^& group to zone in is REALY suck you want kill the solo in this continue in this way </DIV>

WolfGrimDa
01-30-2005, 09:56 PM
<DIV><EM><FONT color=#ffcc00>This is more of a technical issue than anything else.<BR><BR>These are instances, which mean they are spawned and supported as zones on for every group who enters them. By allowing smaller groups in, it would substantially increase the number of instances in use for these zones, meaning a bigger load on the servers. This would like lead to fewer zones like this to support the same load. Which means you would be taking away group content from the game in order to support solo people exploring.<BR><BR>I would like to see some of these places solo as much as anyone else... And it sounds like solo instances may be a possibility down the road, but these places were not designed from any aspect for a solo player to use... so it is not of much benefit for solo players to go there, and would just put an extra burden on the servers.</FONT></EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From what I have read from the developers and interviews with coders on many game this is not the case.  Instances are often done on seperate servers.  I do not know how EQ2 servers are set up (and you have special insight into how they do maybe you could share those facts) but I do know how some other game companies do (as they have stated in interviews) and that instances are often on special servers and it is not an issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So it is less of an technical issue and probably more of one doing with design.</DIV>

Gallenite
01-30-2005, 11:34 PM
<DIV>It's actually both technical and not. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>More instances do use up more of a finite amount of hardware, whether the instances are pooled separately or not.  There's always X number of machines, and they have the ability to get full no matter what configuration they're in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, some of our folks are looking into whether it would be feasible to ease up some of the entry and retry restrictions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NOTE: This isn't an announcement or promise of a change.  If any change is going to occur that won't sacrifice EQ2's stability/capacity/availability, we'll let you know at that point. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

WolfGrimDa
01-31-2005, 12:01 AM
<DIV>Well there you go - at least some official insight into the issue on the EQ2 servers.  Thanks much for the reply and I stand  partially corrected (I guess since its both technical and not) :smileysurprised:  Hope it doesn't cause a rumor mill to form although it would be nice if something does change in the issue <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

arieste
01-31-2005, 05:28 AM
I feel the same way, when I just started the game, I jumped on the chance to do every access quest I received. I ended up with access to the Assassin's Den in Thieves Way, to Firemyst in antonica, to that Hive area in the CoB, to the ToV in Stormhold and finally to Nek castle. Having access for 2 months, I have only visited one of those areas. I also got access to Zek and EL, but those places I was at least happy to explore on my own. I have now started an alt and no longer do the access quests since no one else seems to ever want to go to these places. It sucks that you get really excited about finishing a tough quest for access to new zone and can't even look inside without having to forcefully babysit 2 more people through the access.a.

Merend
01-31-2005, 06:12 AM
well maybe they could do something like this.if a group of the recomended size or larger (lets say 6 min in this example) then it spawns the zone and its their own private zone till they are done.if a smaller group (or individual) tries to enter the zone it will spawn the zone and let him in. if more individuals try to enter they will be placed into that individuals zone untill there is at least the min number of people in the zone. so in this case once there are 6 individuals in the zone it may spawn a new one for any more individuals that try to enter.this would make the physical requirements be not that much worse than if you only alow groups of 6 or more in. ya there would be a bit more trafic as your more likely to have 3 clumps of 6 individuals go in to explore at a time than you are to get 3 groups of 6 wanting to go in at any given time but it would still be better than 18 zones for each of those individuals. that and individuals arnt likely to stay in these zones long anyway. many will either rip em to shreads if its worthwhile to their lvl or be little more than a tourist atraction if its way below their lvl.

CoebyWu
01-31-2005, 06:17 AM
<DIV>I've really been meaning to post about this subject, if not  a broader subject of groups and encounters.  I do feel this really needs to be addressed, I have yet to find an instanced zone that has been a perfect experience.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll give a few examples quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Example1, Condemned Catacombs: </DIV> <DIV>6 of us tried the Condemned Catacombs (after it was fixed) last week.  I really did love the social agro, because it's something I miss from EQ.  We had a group comprised of 27-28's, with 2 of us turning 29 before the end.  The zone was very nice, and challenging.  We finished everything except for the final boss.  Readied up, and pulled.  A few seconds later, it was a wipe.  Now granted, I fully expected it to be difficult.  However, we are not novices, and we are very nicely geared.  At least well enough to last longer.  Firstly, as a 29 Warlock, most of my utility spells were completely uncastable on the boss, which was level 32.  I couldn't stun, I couldn't stifle, I could hardly debuff.  The issue was getting a message saying the boss was too high to cast on.  I know this wasn't the point of the original post, but it is an important issue.  After wiping, and all of us reviving, we found out that we couldn't get back in, there was an 8 hour timer for re-entry.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Example2, Condemned Catacombs:</DIV> <DIV>Well, considering all I had left to do was kill the boss, I decided to try again, at a higher level.  This time near the end, we had someone that had to leave unexpectedly.  He disbanded and zoned out.  Well, we felt it was important to have 6 to try the final mob, and I had read about certain tactics online that gave me the impression if we had group members in the instance, and some members went outside, we could get back in as long as we had the minimum amount to re-enter.  So 2 of us left the zone, invited a new member, and tried to get back in only to find that we couldn't get back in, it was saying the 2 original members had to wait 6 hours and some minutes.  Well, another try wasted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Example3, Bloodskull Valley:</DIV> <DIV>We tried this for the first time last week.  Zoned in to find a nice and exciting welcome party, which we survived.  Ended up losing one person to disconnection (couldn't get back on).  Then after the first 5 waves, we missed a reinforcement so ended up wiping and evac'ing.  Well, we tried to get back in again, but since one person was gone to LD, we only had 11 people.  Well, couldn't get back in.  Yes, I suppose we could have recruited another person but that's a pain, since you need to be keyed for it.  One fun aspect about Bloodskull Valley is that you can't get your corpse from the door, so a few of us went without a shard for a few days.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Example4, Bloodskull Valley:</DIV> <DIV>Yes, we don't give up.  A week later, and higher levels, we went back to try again.  I know the zone is designed for 12-24, but we're a small focused guild so 12 people is all we can muster (and all we want to muster).  Well, this time around we're apparently too high in level with the highest at 31.  Nearly the entire zone was 23 and under.  We did move through most of the zone, and a few 25's spawn after some triggers.  I really fail to understand the balancing of this zone.  Without greying out the zone, it would have to be a raid party of everyone 26 and under.  Even with 24, level 26 and under, I can't see this zone being defeated and enjoyed.  These mobs hit hard, even at level 27ish, you can easily get smacked for 1k.  Imagine a group of 10-15 of those mobs clashing with a raid.  It'd be insta kill hits for half the raid.  This zone has potential, but very unbalanced now.  Oh, and yes, very inconvenienced by the 12-24 restriction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Example5, Vermin Snye:</DIV> <DIV>All of this is starting to bring back my first memories.  First time moving through Vermin Snye it was challenging, and fun, for that type of zone.  Although, when we tried the Rat Queen, the entire zone was grey, and we wiped to the Rat Queen.  Yes, we did try again and we were successful, but the point I remember was the dreaded feeling that ALL content in EQ2 would be one of two different situations.  1) Moving through a zone and having it challenging, but without the means to take down any boss mobs because of group/raid limitations. or 2) Moving through a grey zone only to take down named bosses.  Because of the fact that 2 groups cannot engage the same encounter, EQ2 has very strict limitations in how WE can test our own limits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These were just a few examples.  As a past guild leader in various mmorgs, as a raid leader, as a puller, I have yet to find a challenging groove in EQ2.  I want to test my participants, and challenge the skill level available.  In EQ2, I am severely limited by the specific requirements of grouping, raiding, encounters, and zones.  Trust me, I am always trying to think of a better way of approaching this issue, and I want to figure it out.  However, I am losing faith.  These specific requirements have done the oppositive of their original design.  Anyone that has attended one of my raids in Everquest will know, it was never a cakewalk, and it had a high degree of organization and communication.  It was difficult and it was fun.  It was something we continue to talk about.  I am not looking for an easier design, I am looking for greater control so that I can lead events that are enjoyable to dedicated and experienced players.  Lastly, I am not looking for content that caters to 24+.  I completely agree on the focus of EQ2 and it's 24 and under content, I wouldn't want that changed.  I would however, like to have more options  for 6-12 people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>.... my 2 copper</DIV>

Pitt Hammerfi
01-31-2005, 08:23 AM
<DIV>thats would be great, seriously ive missed so many of the zones, just because its too hard to find people of the same level with the same flag to enter the zone, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>examples are :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>finishing the lightstone quest (im lvl 35 now and would be pointless going in)</DIV> <DIV>cauldron hollow (dont know many people that have access let alone 12+)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Feaw
01-31-2005, 01:03 PM
<DIV>I figure if the zone is restricted to 3 or more group then there is probably a good reason.   LIke you will get spanked badly if you are alone.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

OrdoAbCh
01-31-2005, 02:47 PM
The whole cookie cutter hand holding restrictive approach to EQ2 is just to flawed.I think just about everyone playing wishes they took the new graphics and crafting elements and slapped them onto the old EQ along with the new zones and called it EQ2. Would have been soooooooooooooo much better.

Carryne
01-31-2005, 03:24 PM
I would also like to see the key required for only one person in the group/raid. At least that way there would be a chance of seeing some of these zones before they grey out.

Tag
01-31-2005, 06:54 PM
<DIV>It would be nice if the access restrictions only required a group of 2. As a two boxer there are many instanced zones I'd like to enter.</DIV>

Mezzelli
01-31-2005, 07:02 PM
<DIV> <DIV>Personally, I love the way its setup for requirering X-number of players to be present to enter the zone, what I would like to see reduced is the failure timer (not the success timer).  And in the case of a group wanting to add a player mid-run, either let us do so [one player holds the instance open while another zones out to get more] OR [prompt a warning akin to "You will be unable to obtain reinforcements once you enter!" ]  Note - the zones that do not allow reinforcements should have a reason AND a reward for being this way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've had similar discussions with  many that play about the "solo-ablility" of the game and it gets down to EQ2 being a mMorpg (the second 'M' stands for multiplayer).  If the game gives incentive to solo it, it turns into a crowded single player game - as opposed to a multiplayer game that rewards dynamic team play.  If SOE were to make these instanced zones solo-able I would hope that the loot table would drop so low that players would still want to take a group in to do these quests to get access to the better items.  Getting all the loot for themselves is the major reason most players complain about not being able to solo loot drop zones.  For those having trouble getting groups together, look to a guild to get you a larger group of friends to do these zones with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of my friends and I solo for the challenge it provides (about 50-70% of the time), but we all enjoy tackling these instances as a team (well trained and equipped Kill Squad might be more accurate- but in a group none the less :smileywink: )  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And most agree after looking at the the overall structure of EQ2, that this is better for the game (perhaps not for them - but definitely for the game).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Mezz</DIV></DIV>

Ko
01-31-2005, 07:46 PM
<DIV>I also dislike the restriction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I should be able to enter whatever zone i want (if i did the trial for it) .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As the OP stated, it's my problem if i get an horrible death out of my curiousity.</DIV> <DIV>I love to explore, and besides a warning i would like to be able to enter a zone anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I overgrown some zones just because i never had the 2 other guys needed : of my lvl and flagged for the zone,at the same time .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Buggi
01-31-2005, 08:03 PM
Thanks CoebyWu for the examples you took the time to post. After similar experiences in Bloodskull Valley, I now refuse to participate in these silly zones until something is done to improve them.Nice to hear that this issue is at leat being looked into. In the meantime, I'll be following the same path everyone else goes. The regular zones and the regular dungeons.

RingleToo
01-31-2005, 09:19 PM
<DIV>I got on this morning with the idea of posting something about needing a certain number of people to enter a zone. I was a bit surprised - though don't know why - to see others have issue with this. I recently finished the quests that allow you to enter the Vale of the Shattering, but now find that it's not that easy to find people who are able (or willing?) to do it. I've found a similar problem with A Foul Wind, though that might be because I don't think anyone has quite figured out how to do it :smileytongue: Now I'm too high a level for Foul Wind and am worried the same will happen with Vale. I'd like to at least be able to get in and take a look around even if I do get killed.</DIV>

DCpunk
01-31-2005, 09:54 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tataline wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tiberius wrote:<BR> <DIV>But they could make the zone based off of how many players are in your group so if your solo it spawns a zone that has a difficulty for solo players and adds a loot table to match.</DIV> <DIV>They did this in LDON in eqlive I know its a different game but its a hell of an idea for adding solo content to the game for casual players.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>They didn't do that in LDoN, and in fact at one point posted it would not be practical for them to do. It comes down to how they create zone, there really is no dynamic content within a zone. Each spawn is hand placed by a designer and there's a table of what can spawn from it. Likewise, treasure is done from a table based either on the mob itself or on the zone. The way they do it, they would need to design whole new zone templete for groups of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 players... which doesn't even take into account the classes for those templetes. While I agree they COULD have written the game to support more dynamic choices of spawns or loot, they opted not to for greater control over the content.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>CoH does it.  There is no question as to whether or not it's practical.  It's proven to be do-able for a large scale MMORPG.  It's a matter of how much they care for smaller groups and soloers.  The sheer fact of the matter is, SOE has proven to us that they don't.  You can argue this until you're blue in the face, but it's true.  Other games, when you get a quest it will tell you if it's solo or group-only.  SOE tells us that they upped solo and small group EXP, but it hasn't proven out in-game at all.  There is no way that anyone could ever convince me that SOE cares anything about duos and soloers, and this is part of the evidence against them.</DIV><p>Message Edited by DCpunk on <span class=date_text>01-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 AM</span>

Kirri
01-31-2005, 10:49 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gallenite wrote:<BR> <DIV>It's actually both technical and not. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>More instances do use up more of a finite amount of hardware, whether the instances are pooled separately or not.  There's always X number of machines, and they have the ability to get full no matter what configuration they're in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, some of our folks are looking into whether it would be feasible to ease up some of the entry and retry restrictions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>NOTE: This isn't an announcement or promise of a change.  If any change is going to occur that won't sacrifice EQ2's stability/capacity/availability, we'll let you know at that point. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Really, I'd just be happy to be able to see the zone. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>I couldn't care less if I could actually do the quests related to the zone or fight the baddies and all that.  A 'soloists' instanced zone perhaps?  Where 'parties' of less than the 'recommended' are all dropped so they can go and look around and explore?</FONT></P> <P>Its a bit 'non-immersive' since the first person in would instance the zone and then, if they were high enough level, clear the place without reward and any who followed would just see empty terrain.  But atleast they would _SEE_ it and not the 'you must be in a group of 3 or more to enter this zone' or whatever the silly message is.  :smileytongue:</FONT></P> <P>What are other people looking for in this regard?  Do they just want to see the zone? Or do they want to be able to do all the quests and get the rewards without being grouped?</FONT></P> <P><BR></P>

DCpunk
01-31-2005, 11:14 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kirrian wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Really, I'd just be happy to be able to see the zone. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>I couldn't care less if I could actually do the quests related to the zone or fight the baddies and all that.  A 'soloists' instanced zone perhaps?  Where 'parties' of less than the 'recommended' are all dropped so they can go and look around and explore?</FONT></P> <P>Its a bit 'non-immersive' since the first person in would instance the zone and then, if they were high enough level, clear the place without reward and any who followed would just see empty terrain.  But atleast they would _SEE_ it and not the 'you must be in a group of 3 or more to enter this zone' or whatever the silly message is.  :smileytongue:</FONT></P> <P>What are other people looking for in this regard?  Do they just want to see the zone? Or do they want to be able to do all the quests and get the rewards without being grouped?</FONT></P> <P><BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I'm looking for CoH style adventuring.  (and no, I don't want to play CoH, I just thought that this issue is the way that all MMORPGs should be moving forward)  Basically, you had a bunch of "contacts" that handed out "missions" (CoHs versions of "NPCs" and "quests") that were appropriate to your level.  It would mark for you where on the map your "mission" was to take place, but sometimes it was just kill X of N in Y zone.  You make your way to the mission, and either find a group to help you or try it yourself.  The number of people in the party determined the difficulty and number of the mobs in the zone.  "Drops" in CoH were called "enhancements."  If you did the "mission" with a group, the drops would be fast and furious, if you did it solo, they would be few and far between.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you initially talked to your "contact," it would tell you immediately (i.e. before you accepted) if the "mission" actually <EM>required </EM>a group to complete it.  You could add people or drop people from the "mission" at any time.  Some tough encounters, however, required a set number of people - and these types of "missions" were available at all levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL of the "missions" that were not "kill X of N" style were instanced.  This allowed CoH to cater to ALL manner of players.  No one is excluded.  SOE should really learn from this.  If they don't, they'll show their true colors.</DIV>

DCpunk
01-31-2005, 11:14 PM
<P>double post</P><p>Message Edited by DCpunk on <span class=date_text>01-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:15 AM</span>

Mithru
01-31-2005, 11:37 PM
They should ease up on access blocks all together. By EQ1 standards, the flags needed in this game are incredibly easy but quite frankly I'm not sure why it's so important to have them at all. If stability suffers, then find other ways to increase stability. In a game with instances, population issues shouldn't be a problem. People want to at least be able to see these zones without the roadblocks. Can someone explain to me how original Everquest managed without a single access quest? Was that such a disaster?

Kraf
01-31-2005, 11:45 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DCpunk wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kirrian wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>*snip*</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I'm looking for CoH style adventuring.  (and no, I don't want to play CoH, I just thought that this issue is the way that all MMORPGs should be moving forward)  Basically, you had a bunch of "contacts" that handed out "missions" (CoHs versions of "NPCs" and "quests") that were appropriate to your level.  It would mark for you where on the map your "mission" was to take place, but sometimes it was just kill X of N in Y zone.  You make your way to the mission, and either find a group to help you or try it yourself.  The number of people in the party determined the difficulty and number of the mobs in the zone.  "Drops" in CoH were called "enhancements."  If you did the "mission" with a group, the drops would be fast and furious, if you did it solo, they would be few and far between.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you initially talked to your "contact," it would tell you immediately (i.e. before you accepted) if the "mission" actually <EM>required </EM>a group to complete it.  You could add people or drop people from the "mission" at any time.  Some tough encounters, however, required a set number of people - and these types of "missions" were available at all levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL of the "missions" that were not "kill X of N" style were instanced.  This allowed CoH to cater to ALL manner of players.  No one is excluded.  SOE should really learn from this.  If they don't, they'll show their true colors.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I agree, CoH handled this very well. I stopped playing for other reasons, but I really liked this aspect of CoH.<BR>

DCpunk
01-31-2005, 11:50 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mithrull wrote:<BR>They should ease up on access blocks all together. By EQ1 standards, the flags needed in this game are incredibly easy but quite frankly I'm not sure why it's so important to have them at all. If stability suffers, then find other ways to increase stability. In a game with instances, population issues shouldn't be a problem. People want to at least be able to see these zones without the roadblocks. <BR><BR>Can someone explain to me how original Everquest managed without a single access quest? Was that such a disaster?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> It didn't.  Ever since Velious (2nd expansion) there were access quests.  (Sleeper's Tomb is the 1st that comes to mind)

DCpunk
01-31-2005, 11:53 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Krafen wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DCpunk wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I'm looking for CoH style adventuring.  (and no, I don't want to play CoH, I just thought that this issue is the way that all MMORPGs should be moving forward)  Basically, you had a bunch of "contacts" that handed out "missions" (CoHs versions of "NPCs" and "quests") that were appropriate to your level.  It would mark for you where on the map your "mission" was to take place, but sometimes it was just kill X of N in Y zone.  You make your way to the mission, and either find a group to help you or try it yourself.  The number of people in the party determined the difficulty and number of the mobs in the zone.  "Drops" in CoH were called "enhancements."  If you did the "mission" with a group, the drops would be fast and furious, if you did it solo, they would be few and far between.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you initially talked to your "contact," it would tell you immediately (i.e. before you accepted) if the "mission" actually <EM>required </EM>a group to complete it.  You could add people or drop people from the "mission" at any time.  Some tough encounters, however, required a set number of people - and these types of "missions" were available at all levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ALL of the "missions" that were not "kill X of N" style were instanced.  This allowed CoH to cater to ALL manner of players.  No one is excluded.  SOE should really learn from this.  If they don't, they'll show their true colors.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I agree, CoH handled this very well. I stopped playing for other reasons, but I really liked this aspect of CoH.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Same here - quit CoH for other reasons completely.  I loved the side-kicking and exemplaring as well, but that's another whole topic, and I can honestly understand the Devs reasons for not including those aspects in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And really, afte CoH did this and remain to be THE most stable MMORPG on the market, there is no good reason what-so-ever that other companies aren't doing the same.</DIV>

Kirri
02-01-2005, 12:10 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mithrull wrote:<BR>They should ease up on access blocks all together. By EQ1 standards, the flags needed in this game are incredibly easy but quite frankly I'm not sure why it's so important to have them at all. If stability suffers, then find other ways to increase stability. In a game with instances, population issues shouldn't be a problem. People want to at least be able to see these zones without the roadblocks. <BR><BR>Can someone explain to me how original Everquest managed without a single access quest? Was that such a disaster?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>A disaster?  Nope.  An issue?  In the beginning it was.  There was only so much content at certain levels.  Just like now in EQ2, EQ had content that was filled with low to mid level players.</P> <P>I don't know much about the high level EQ2 game yet, as I'm having _tons'o'fun_ being less than 30, but in EQ after a certain point and before _ANY_ expansions many of the "high-level" zones were simply over populated and such things as kill-stealing and ninja-looting were hot topics discussed and argued and rehashed again and again.  Some guilds even took the stance that any report of a member kill-stealing or ninja-looting and they would kick the person from the guild, period.</P> <P>After the first expansion into Kunark, people started to spread out, and the lack of easy transportation only enhanced the situation.  With the opening of Vellious it became even difficult to get friends onto the same continent easily so you could all group and do something.  At this point the "old-world high level" zones became open for those of us that took things slow and as long as we didn't run into a FBSS farmer or epic-quest raid in SolB, it was pretty open to explore as we wished.</P> <P>Then came Luclin.  Everyone wanted to be on the moon.  And it was a mini-Norrath again.  Zones became crowded, kill-stealing and ninja-looting cropped up again.  It was hard and _dangerous_ to get around.  It was *adventure* again!  Old Norrath was quiet despite the upgrades to certain levels and a few quests.  The dragon hunting guilds ruled Kunark and Vellious high-level encounters.</P> <P>Planes of Power threw a wrench into a lot of the machinery.  Now high level characters could jump anywhere they wanted and farms every little item they could.  ARGH!</P> <P>LoDN was an interested mini-expansion and had some cool things.  Triggered spawns with "uber-lewts" for single parties was fun for those of us that couldn't really do high-level Luclin or PoP yet.</P> <P>And then the instanced zones came.  I can't really share an opinion about them, accept wouldn't it have been cool if they had been around sooner?  Like when EQ first started?</P> <P>**POOF!**  And EQ2 is born.</P> <P>The grouping thing doesn't bother me that much.  Its just that there is a lot of other things for friends to do pre-30 that it is hard to get a group together just to go *see* the zones where you need a group.</P> <P>Its obvious to me that SoE learns a lot from not only its own games but from others as well.  My opinion is that they will eventually redo these zones and make then higher level, where grouping is a much more prevalant and neccessary thing.  Pre-20, grouping is sometimes a hinderance to fun and play.  People are on the learning curve with their primary skills and are easily getting others killed or they haven't realized that there really is a difference between roleplaying a jerk and being a jerk and the former can be funny, while the latter gets you kicked/ignored from the group.</P> <P>No... so far, I've found grouping at low levels to be bad for my progress, and not measured in levels, but also in terms of exploration of the content that I _can_ get to.  I've run around Thundering Steppes solo at 20 and not keelin' a thing and probably had more fun then going into Firemist Gully with a full group to finish some quest only to be rewarded with a lost shard because some noob couldn't handle the concept of grouping and using Heroic Opportunities.</P> <P>But then again... I'm wierd...  and write way too much.  :smileyvery-happy:</P>

FunG
02-01-2005, 12:24 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Merendel wrote:<BR>well maybe they could do something like this.<BR>if a group of the recomended size or larger (lets say 6 min in this example) then it spawns the zone and its their own private zone till they are done.<BR>if a smaller group (or individual) tries to enter the zone it will spawn the zone and let him in. if more individuals try to enter they will be placed into that individuals zone untill there is at least the min number of people in the zone. so in this case once there are 6 individuals in the zone it may spawn a new one for any more individuals that try to enter.<BR><BR>this would make the physical requirements be not that much worse than if you only alow groups of 6 or more in. ya there would be a bit more trafic as your more likely to have 3 clumps of 6 individuals go in to explore at a time than you are to get 3 groups of 6 wanting to go in at any given time but it would still be better than 18 zones for each of those individuals. that and individuals arnt likely to stay in these zones long anyway. many will either rip em to shreads if its worthwhile to their lvl or be little more than a tourist atraction if its way below their lvl.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>reading this I got this idea:<BR></P> <P>just keep it how it is, but add an option where if you don't meet the # you can go in anyway, but all that go in this way will go to the same instants.<BR></P>

Daylight
02-01-2005, 12:55 AM
<DIV>From what I can gather reading this post and others, the problem with allowing duos or solo characters into instanced zones is that it would put too high a load on the EQ2 servers. If you think about this for a moment you see the problem is not related to group size but is related to the number of instanced zones. For example if one day everyone on a particular server all logged on, got into groups of 3 or more and all went into instanced zones the server would lag, go really slow and presumably crash. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why dont the devs implement a limit on the number of instanced zones rather than the group size allowed in. This would mean someone soloing during a low load time could happily explore an instanced zone, it would also mean during peak hours the servers would be more robust as some groups (however large) would not be allowed into certain zones until the load calmed down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With this new instanced zone rule it keeps everyone happy, soloers, duos, two boxers, small groups and large groups. Heck even the EQ2 server team would be happy as the servers would be up longer <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my 2cp</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Daylight</DIV>

EmeraldJay
02-01-2005, 01:03 AM
<DIV>I don't have the answers to any of these problems, but would just like to state how I feel about the way the game is designed.  There just is not enough challenge in the game.  I do not find it fun to be able to run right past grey mobs in a zone which otherwise would be KoS if they were a little higher level. I don't like having to do that because when the mobs were at the right level for us to fight, we didn't have a chance in heck to be able to eventually clear the zone and win the encounter with the boss mob at the end. The Plane of Hate comes to mind. No way could we beat Inny our first few visits to that plane.  However, when we were leveled up to be able to do that, that zone was still providing loot and experience and the chance for a messy wipe. That was fun and challenging.  I just don't see that in EQ2 and I'm getting very discouraged.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some people have mentioned the instancing of LDoN in EQLive.  When I quit EQLive to play EQ2, LDoN had a minimum group size of 3 to enter an instance.  The big difference in LDoN though is that you never, ever had to zone into an instance where mobs were greyed out.  There was a level restriction for members of your group to be able to enter these zones with you; however, nothing was ever completely trivial. The instances were spawned dependent upon the level of the members in your group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't have a problem with timers on the zones if those timers are based on success.  Nor do I have a problem with having to do quests to gain access to certain zones.  I've lived through PoP and GoD.  I know all about flagging and having to gain access. However, I do have a problem not being able to keep at something until we can get it right if we've made a mistake and failed.  Telling me, oh well, come back another day just does not sit well with me and I'm tired of those strict kinds of restrictions already. Not being able to return to your instance because someone has a RL issue and has to leave and needs to be replaced is just ludicrous. And being in the level range as it's stated by SOE for some of these zones and having half if not all of the zone be grey is just wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, I can just ramble about all the different group and raid experiences our guild has had so far, but CoebyWu has pointed out some of them already.  All I know is that the challenge of the game itself is poorly lacking and everything is just too darn easy by the time you're able to complete it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Emeri</DIV> <DIV>Guild Leader - <A href="http://www.bideancaer.com/" target=_blank>Bidean Caer of Innothule</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Kaff
02-01-2005, 07:28 AM
<blockquote><hr>Feawin wrote:<DIV>I figure if the zone is restricted to 3 or more group then there is probably a good reason. LIke you will get spanked badly if you are alone. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>This is true, and I think that any who have delusions that opening these zones to less than the required (or recommended, if they get their way) players will offer any value progression wise unless the entire thing's grey.However, there are very valid reasons to want to go in solo. I, for one, would kill to be able to take my scout in and actually scout. It's a role I find fun, but pretty pointless in a capable group. The group neither needs nor wants me to leave them behind for a bit to discover where we need to go, or what lies ahead -- if we belong there, we can kill it, if we can't, no amount of scouting will make us belong there and we should be somewhere else instead.Now, with normal zones, this isn't a problem. I take some personal playtime and go patiently sneak my way through, taking the time it takes to not only cover the ground while sneaking, but to observe the scout and lookout types and squeeze past them while they run their patrol routes or what have you. It's not a fast process, but like I said, it's one I enjoy and one that does speed up the actual crawling a LOT if it's done ahead of time (without having to resort to spoilers).I went into Firemyst Gully a few times. But since we didn't know what was in there, I've never been able to convince a group to stay beyond the first few hundred feet, because I couldn't tell them if it was worth our time to wade through armies of fast-respawning greens (What level was stuff deeper in? How deep does it go? Are there any named guys that might drop loot? Any quests to be found? Or are the fields of skeletons and ghosts pretty much it?)...

kanr
02-01-2005, 09:15 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DCpunk wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mithrull wrote:<BR><BR>Can someone explain to me how original Everquest managed without a single access quest? Was that such a disaster?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> It didn't.  Ever since Velious (2nd expansion) there were access quests.  (Sleeper's Tomb is the 1st that comes to mind)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Veeshan's Peak was a key-required zone in RoK (1st expansion).  9 medallion pieces you had to collect, if I remember rightly, and the last part from Trakanon.</DIV>

Alex_Fu_She
02-01-2005, 09:43 AM
<blockquote><hr>Kulharrin wrote:<DIV><DIV>I have no problem with needing to complete a quest before your able to enter a zone but crap like "You cannot enter this zone unless you have # people" It's just stupid and totally takes away from the immesivness of the world. It could easily say "It is RECOMMENDED you have # people to enter this area"</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>So what if I'm gonna go in and get owned, I would still like the option of entering and having a peek at what I may be up against on whether or not I decide to return or check the the lvl of the monsters in that zone so I can better plan the raid I'll need before returning... <BR></DIV><DIV>This is more of an exploration thing than a solo content issue. I think I should be able to wander around cluelessly as I want. If I want to get my @$$ handed to me by going into a dungeon designed for groups, so be it. </DIV><DIV><BR>I hate this feature with a passion... </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I'm only lvl 23 and so far I've encountered 4 zones that I've not been allowed to enter because I didn't have the right ammount of people, 2 of them were in the sewers which I'll prolly never be able to visit because I haven't found a soul that has any interest or reason in checking out those zones.</DIV><DIV> </DIV></DIV><hr></blockquote>Here, Here! I miss that about he first EQ. Thanks for bringing this up. Let me make the decision on whether or not I need a group. I want to sneak around and explore every zone.

Mooz
02-01-2005, 09:50 AM
To help find others for keyed zone groups1) Add a key requirement drop down box to lfg searches.2) Add a comment to lfg as per eq1 ie /lfg Tomb of Valor or Thundering Steps giant group3) Add gathering rooms to each keyed zone. These would be like player housing and trade instances. Players with the right keys all zone into the same gathering room where they group up and then zone into the actual keyed zone.TuluLv32 TemplarQeynos, Najena

Kwoung
02-01-2005, 12:46 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moozoo wrote:<BR>3) Add gathering rooms to each keyed zone.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I suggested a similar thing back in beta.. when it became glaringly obvious upon instancing of Antonica, that you would be hard pressed to ever find a Firemyst Gully group outside of a pre-arranged event with the guild or friends. Their needs to be a nice little instance everyone that hs interest in entering these zones goes to to hang out... and maybe crafts or does some light killing while waiting for enough folks to form a group up show.</P> <P>Even back in beta, players were zone hopping all the antonica instances trying to put together Firemyst gully groups.<BR></P>

Twizz
02-01-2005, 04:40 PM
<DIV>I've nothing against the current system except that I don't think everyone should need access. It's hard enough to find people that wants to go, without having to worry about everyone having a key. Maybe their should be a support system, let's say 1 person can support a group of 3, 2 a group of 6 and so on. This makes it easier to fill the group, even if everyone doesn't have the key.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've missed a bunch of zones already, and I'm outleveling some zones I really want to go. Nektropos castle comes to mind, it's a great zone and I really want to see the rest of it but then I'll soon have to turn off experiance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the idea about an instance that fills up till it has at least 3 people would be nice, except if some high level l33t guy zones in just to clean the zone while someone else is there exploring.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

DCpunk
02-01-2005, 06:54 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kanroc wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DCpunk wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mithrull wrote:<BR><BR>Can someone explain to me how original Everquest managed without a single access quest? Was that such a disaster?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> It didn't.  Ever since Velious (2nd expansion) there were access quests.  (Sleeper's Tomb is the 1st that comes to mind)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Veeshan's Peak was a key-required zone in RoK (1st expansion).  9 medallion pieces you had to collect, if I remember rightly, and the last part from Trakanon.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>That's right.  Totally forgot that was RoK.</DIV>

Axhine
02-01-2005, 08:55 PM
<DIV>I don't mind doing a quest to access zones, but please remove that number caps and make them a suggestion hey if we enter with 6 people instead of 12 and get owned so be it but heck let us have a shot at it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

WolfGrimDa
02-01-2005, 10:11 PM
<DIV>Does anyone else miss the thrill of doing a dungeon on ones own?  I mean I love doing them in a group as well.  However it can be extremely exciting to work ones way to the boss solo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a couple of games you could do this (usually by waiting to a certain level).  With skill and maybe some luck you could solo the final boss (and or guards) and in most cases still have experience from the rest of the dungeon.  In most cases it would be greens (maybe a few blues) to the final boss who would be white or maybe yellow).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would actually plan an entire night to do this in certain cases.  You had to time things very well - slowly killing and clearing ever so carefully through each part of the dungeon - never moving to fast but knowing you could not sit on your butt to long either.  TIming the patrols, knowing one "run away" could spell doom.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But what a sense of victory when you finally got the Mob.  Unlike a single player game there is no pause, no reload.  It was totally tense and exciting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats one big thing I utterly miss in EQ2 that they really need to look at - and perhaps there is a slim chance they will according to the post by Scott.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(edited to fix very poor sentence structure <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by WolfGrimDark on <span class=date_text>02-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:12 AM</span>

DCpunk
02-01-2005, 10:19 PM
<DIV>Bravo, Wolf, bravo.</DIV>

Tiberi
02-02-2005, 08:25 AM
<DIV> Kunark had an access quest many of em for the dungeons Howling stones= charsis, Sebilis and Veeshans peak but all in all the key quests were not over the top in what you had to do well all accept for Veeshans peak. </DIV> <DIV>But regular old zones like Sebilis was easy enough Howling stones wasnt bad either.</DIV> <DIV>Ah well anyways fine if you can keep the content within your level range and you want to be a solo player and enter say zarvons tower then make it so it looks at soloplayer_001 cchanges content to be able to be done by a solo player wouldnt hurt anything but would make zones not go grey so [FaarNerfed!] fast to some of us.</DIV>

Kulharr
02-03-2005, 02:04 AM
<DIV>So pretty much the majority of players are agreed on this? Zone requirements should be changed to recommendations? I think this would be a huge step in improving the open ended freedom of the game, as it stands now it seems to artificial and controlled which is never good in an mmorpg...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I want to atleast be able to go into these zones and see them and study the chalanges I'd be up against even if I wouldn't stand a chance, at least then I'd know what lvl of group I'd need for this place...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Finding so many zones I can't enter I'd have no idea what kind of a group I'd even need to put together to raid the zone... Like Serpent's Lair and another den in the sewers I cannot enter... A place in Nekultos forest and commonlands I cannot enter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love access quests, it's fight to complete a quest to gain access to a zone but then to have "You need this many people to enter" Is a slap in the face.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kulharrin on <span class=date_text>02-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:06 PM</span>

Kaff
02-03-2005, 08:07 AM
<blockquote><hr>Kulharrin wrote:<DIV>So pretty much the majority of players are agreed on this? Zone requirements should be changed to recommendations?<hr></blockquote>Only if we're not sacrificing server/zone stability to do so. Gallenite DID state that it's at least partly a technical restriction, in that they're not prepared architecturally/resource-wise to offer an instance of a zone for every player on the server.

Linolil
02-03-2005, 11:37 AM
<blockquote><hr>WolfGrimDark wrote:<DIV></div><DIV></div><DIV>Does anyone else miss the thrill of doing a dungeon on ones own? I mean I love doing them in a group as well. However it can be extremely exciting to work ones way to the boss solo.</div></blockquote>Agreed. The Templar final quest zone was a pain to get through. I died multiple times trying when I was too low. But it was also a lot of fun! I don't mind taking a risk and dieing. I simply don't like not being allowed to try.

Kwoung
02-03-2005, 12:18 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WolfGrimDark wrote:<BR> <DIV>Does anyone else miss the thrill of doing a dungeon on ones own?  I mean I love doing them in a group as well.  However it can be extremely exciting to work ones way to the boss solo. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Come play on Test.. you can do that in all the regular dungeons. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

WolfGrimDa
02-04-2005, 01:27 AM
<DIV>Aye I have decided to move my Shaman over there as soon as my server is up for the move.  I think the test server will be kinda cool to play on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(edit for spelling errors)</DIV><p>Message Edited by WolfGrimDark on <span class=date_text>02-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 PM</span>

Kulharr
02-05-2005, 04:31 AM
<DIV>"Come play on Test.. you can do that in all the regular dungeons"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How so? what is different about the dungeons on test then regular servers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

yaen
02-05-2005, 06:18 AM
<DIV>empty =)</DIV>

Omegafoxx
02-07-2005, 02:05 AM
<DIV>I think bloodskull vally/fyremist are the best example, wide scale raid zones, but everyone misses out, cause you need 12 people (for good reason, anything less is just debt) but all need to be keyed, which is ridiculous, thats what makes the zone itself tiresome, finding 24 people who have access to the zone. It was nice when zones liek fallen gate only neeeded one person to be keyed then the group could get in, but now they took that out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And the way other access quests, people cant even help anymore unless they are on the quest, or have done it. Trying to do boat rides, and it doenst let people help if they havent done the quest. which is silly. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which is i guess away to influence people to quest more, then they add in silly things like autoaccess at X level, which i am against. I feel the whole auto-access to zones liek zek, enchanted lands, everfrost so on and so forth should be removed, the privlage should be given to artisans, since its hard to keep yoru advernturing level and crafting level close, but for everyone else, they know auto access is comming so they dont even bother with access quests, they wanna get into a zone, they just grind harder, making it very difficult to put a group together to get in zone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd like to see key zones require only one person to be keyed, and zones that give auto access give the access at a point where the zone is just unbenificial to even go there to adventure, like instead of 32 for auto access to zek, give it at 35-36, that way they will have more insentive to actually do access quests.</DIV>

Eliar
02-07-2005, 02:15 AM
<DIV>hehe ... at 35 - 36 everything is grey in TS.  Heck, everything is pretty much grey in TS by lvl 30.  I think the auto access to those zones is fair.  I personally hate the idea of having to go through any quests to have access to any zones personally.   I stopped playing EQ1 once PoP came out since you had to be flagged for pretty much all zones and being a wizard, I was unable to get groups since the balance between classes was so out of whack and no one wanted a wiz (which is quickly happening in this game as well). Thus my abhorance to accessed zones and why many people I know went to WoW.  Lord knows I was tempted to but didn't for many other reasons.  If you are playing a weak class (or primarily a solo player) you pretty have no chance of getting grouped.  Maybe the dev crew did learn something from EQ1 by putting in the autoaccess for certain zone when a particular level is acheived. :smileyvery-happy:  Now I should have learned from EQ1 and stayed away from the wizard class.  :smileytongue:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Eliar on <span class=date_text>02-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:19 PM</span>

Kulharr
02-07-2005, 01:50 PM
<DIV>I don't mind the key for access at all, it's a good idea I think, makes for some interesting quests...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But it's stupid you can't enter the zone... So what if it's made for 12 people??? I like to be able to enter the zone to atleast look at the scenery, listen to the music and scout what I can to see what kind of mobs there are and what lvl they are... So if I plan to return to that zone, then atleast I'll know what kind of group and what lvl I need to be...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To this day I have absoutly no idea what is in zones like this and what level recommendation it is...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If they are not going to make zone requirements, recommendations, then they should provide you a lot more information at the zone entry so you can plan your raid accourdingly and not waste your time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Say you assemble a group of 12 to raid the zone and none of those players have visited the zone before and then you realize your too high a level to make the zone meaninful and this you miss out on being able to experience the zone, or your too low a level so you've just wasted your time putting the group together</DIV>

Landrethi
02-08-2005, 01:43 AM
Personally, I have to agree almost completely - If I want to go in and look at all the nice landscapes, hear the music, etc, then I ought to be able to go do it. If I get slaughtered, that's MY problem.Considering the few hundred thousand of us that paid our $50 for the game, and regularly pay our monthly fees (3x for me, I have two accounts and my wife has one), then I for one do NOT want to hear any whining from SOE about having server resource issues - go buy another one or two and hush about supporting instanced zones for solo's/duo's.It all boils down to one simple fact: I pay my money to play the game the way *I* want to play it, NOT the way SOE thinks I SHOULD play. If I want to solo, then I solo. If I want to group with my guildies in a zone, then I can organize that. Under no circumstances should I be prevented from exploring content that I am paying for. If I'm brazen enough (or dumb enough) to go into a zone that will kill me quick, SOE should not be in the business of preventing me from doing so.That being said, if they want to do the old DOS trick of having a window pop up and say "We really recommend you enter this zone with N number of party members, are you sure you want to go in as you are?" and a Yes/No click option, then great. Heck, you could even have an old surly guard out front of these areas that gives you a nice character interaction. Having a dwarf with a rough Scottish brogue tell me "I dinnae think ya really be wantin to go in there alone laddie" would be a hoot. Having him bring me my shard later and saying something like " I tole ya you'd get yer [Removed for Content] handed to ya but noooo, I'm just a grumpy ol dwarf..." would even be better. Just don't keep me from going anywhere I want to go.And so we go on ..

Kirri
02-08-2005, 01:53 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Landrethian wrote:<BR>[snip]<BR>That being said, if they want to do the old DOS trick of having a window pop up and say "We really recommend you enter this zone with N number of party members, are you sure you want to go in as you are?" and a Yes/No click option, then great. Heck, you could even have an old surly guard out front of these areas that gives you a nice character interaction. Having a dwarf with a rough Scottish brogue tell me "I dinnae think ya really be wantin to go in there alone laddie" would be a hoot. Having him bring me my shard later and saying something like " I tole ya you'd get yer [Removed for Content] handed to ya but noooo, I'm just a grumpy ol dwarf..." would even be better. Just don't keep me from going anywhere I want to go.<BR><BR>And so we go on ..<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Aye, laddie, I've come ta wonderin' if our opinions are taken seriously or only as guidelines to be disproven by the darned statistics which I'ma sure as I can be that they be lookin' at very closely fer this very topic.  Be that the populations and use of the zones we be a speakin' of drop below some threshold and be a proven our point fer us, then maybe the varmits will relax their restrictions and we be gettin' a good look at all them zones we done missed way back when we was just little tikes. Arrr...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Alarye
02-08-2005, 03:17 AM
<DIV>actually, If possible I would like to see a way to search LFG using Key's.   I am sure the whole "Access" thing is just a flag on the character's DB entry.  Doesn't seem like it would be a problem to add a key button to the LFG / LFM window so that you can have a check box with all of your keys that you or your group "Share" and do a search based on that.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am just about done doing access quests for the sake of doing them, most of the time they just Rot in my quest journal until I delete (because I mean really 50 quests is not enough, MAKE HERITAGE, ACCESS and COLLECTIONS not count to the total since a lot of these you can start at low levels but you will not be done untill the 40's) or if I am bored and can get through the quest on my own, then I will do it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Zerofault
02-08-2005, 06:08 PM
<DIV>Ok... does anyone really give two poops how much of a load it is on their servers?  My point is, we PAY for them to have the servers.. we PAY them ALOT of MONEY... they can afford it... they need to quit being so money hungry.. charging 2.99 for new zones? omg... they are cheap.. it will eventually be their demise i'm afraid... I just hope they figure this out before more leave to other games...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz Nek</DIV>

Kirri
02-09-2005, 02:34 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok... does anyone really give two poops how much of a load it is on their servers?  My point is, we PAY for them to have the servers.. we PAY them ALOT of MONEY... they can afford it... they need to quit being so money hungry.. charging 2.99 for new zones? omg... they are cheap.. it will eventually be their demise i'm afraid... I just hope they figure this out before more leave to other games...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz Nek</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Um... Actually... Can I be the one to disagree with the "alot of money" comment?  I get more service from SoE for my less than 30 bucks that I do from the same amount spent on ... well... just about anything else on the planet I could spend 30 bucks on every month to entertain myself for hours on end.</P> <P>And 3 bucks for new zones.  Dude!  What a great marketing plan!</P> <P>There is nothing wrong with paying for the initial release of new content.  In fact, if one would actually stand back and think about it for a second, wouldn't content that earns even a little amount of money to recoop development costs get a bit more attention paid to its stability then say, oh... any freebie zone they might feel like adding at any time?  I really doubt 3 bucks will make much of a dent in the ROI, but its a bit more then zero.</P> <P>Whether SoE is willing to admit it our not, I am sure that there are more people involved in the development of such pay-to-access content then the few zones they have and will add in the future for everyone as part of their monthy fee.</P>

Zerofault
02-09-2005, 07:13 PM
<DIV>Kirrian, look at the big picture... 20,000 x 30 ... 600,000 in one month... and i'm sure theres more subscribers then that... they can afford to give us free zones... they can afford to give us the game for free... they can afford to have sufficient servers to handle whatever load we put on them...  Marketing? Brilliant?... sure... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV>

Feaw
02-09-2005, 08:43 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zerofault wrote:<BR> <DIV>Kirrian, look at the big picture... 20,000 x 30 ... 600,000 in one month... and i'm sure theres more subscribers then that... they can afford to give us free zones... they can afford to give us the game for free... they can afford to have sufficient servers to handle whatever load we put on them...  Marketing? Brilliant?... sure... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lodoz</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>exactly</P> <P>for an instance zone for one person with the populations we have just isnt doable.   Think of how many instances there would be once the word got out about the loot ( assuming there would be good reason for people to want to go there).  Even if you limit the amount of instances you would end up with people camping the zone to get in.   The alternate is an open zone like Blackburrow where you have the classic trains to zone going on much of the time.  There will always be opportunist who try to grab at things that arnt designed for their level.   The solution is to keep the instance dungeons challenging which in my mind is not a soloable thing unless your planning on finishing old quest on grey mobs.     </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

ripthisjoi
02-10-2005, 10:10 AM
you guys can stop posting now that they removed all restrictions from instanced dungeons

Dae
02-10-2005, 02:41 PM
Not all restrictions. Some "quest" related zones still have requirements. I'd like to know if this include orc valley. I'm sick of not being able to get rid of this lightstone quest.

Kulharr
02-10-2005, 11:52 PM
<DIV>"you guys can stop posting now that they removed all restrictions from instanced dungeons"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>are you playing with my emotions?</DIV>

Miral
02-11-2005, 12:38 AM
<DIV>I think a max level is more important on dungeons than a min level. a solo instance with a maximum level seems like it could be quite close to perfect.</DIV>

Kirri
02-11-2005, 05:32 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ripthisjoint wrote:<BR>you guys can stop posting now that they removed all restrictions from instanced dungeons<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Hah!  Shows you how many times I've tried it since I failed to get into some of those zones. :smileyvery-happy:  Looks like me gots some more splorin' ta do!</P> <P>And I was tryin' to derail the thread into a heated discussion about how much "we" pay each month.  That's always fun for a few weeks entertainment in itself! :smileytongue:</P> <P>To re-iterate ... "we" pay *no more* then 30 bucks a month if you buy all the options and only have one account which is the only thing anyone should make their judgement on since anything more is just luxury.</P> <P>And.. at less than 30 bucks a month, SoE provides a lot more repetitive monotonous mindless entertainment then cable TV or the few movies I could spend the same amount on.  So what exactly do you expect for your money?  A trip into high orbit?</P> <P>Although, after thinking about it for a while, internet [Removed for Content] is pretty darn close to the same amount of repetitive monotonous mindless entertainment, has much better graphics, the content changes more often, and I think some of those sites don't cost more then 30 bucks... Hmm!  :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P>

Mithru
02-11-2005, 12:52 PM
<blockquote><hr>DCpunk wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Mithrull wrote:They should ease up on access blocks all together. By EQ1 standards, the flags needed in this game are incredibly easy but quite frankly I'm not sure why it's so important to have them at all. If stability suffers, then find other ways to increase stability. In a game with instances, population issues shouldn't be a problem. People want to at least be able to see these zones without the roadblocks. Can someone explain to me how original Everquest managed without a single access quest? Was that such a disaster?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It didn't. Ever since Velious (2nd expansion) there were access quests. (Sleeper's Tomb is the 1st that comes to mind)<hr></blockquote>The term "orginal Everquest" was meant to mean just that: original Norrath without expansions. They started in Kunark (2nd expansion) but were confined to higher level zones IE Seb and Veeshan's Peak.<p>Message Edited by Mithrull on <span class=date_text>02-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:55 PM</span>

Smaele
02-11-2005, 08:11 PM
<DIV>Ok Im level 40 now and GLS heritage has been on final step for 15 levels now.</DIV> <DIV>I still can't find a raid to do it , because of my level now. I still want to complete it though. The guild xp is very nice...</DIV> <DIV>Every level I've tried to get into a raid, but standing somewhere for hours going "level 35 looking for raid" is boring.</DIV> <DIV>I have access and when I finally get some people to do it, I have to explain to them they need access too. 90% of them doesn't have access and I'm not wasting my time helping them with the access anymore because that quest takes too long and by the time it's done half of them logged already. </DIV> <DIV>I'm level 40 I can prolly own this zone with 1 group of guildies (our guild is not that big and I dont want to bother our whole guild with doing a grey zone), but I need 12 people to enter. This is absurd. For 15 levels I'v been staring at "Return of the Light" in my journal, it will be a very grey item now, but I still want to to complete it just to get rid of it.</DIV> <DIV>SoE address this issue please.</DIV>

-Arctura-
12-31-2008, 05:27 AM
<p>(( I'm just glad they made Icy Digs no longer 6-person zone, and ALSO no longer requires level 60 (no higher)</p><p>that is a FUN zone! and some nice l00t drops in there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Brinelan
12-31-2008, 10:21 AM
<p>There is way too much hand holding and protecting us from ourselves.  EQ1 didn't hold your hand for anything, and it was fun.. we liked it.  Now with wow being this wierd phonomenon players expect to be protected from themselves and have their hand held. </p><p>I am glad there are still games like eve around where you are thrown in to the universe and are told to have fun.  Granted I do love eq2 for what it is, but ya there is way too much hand holding in most mmos these days.</p>

Zenadina
12-31-2008, 10:47 AM
<p>woo holy necro post. Dont really think you needed to necro a 4 year old thread for that, have a feeling it going to get locked now<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

Shareana
12-31-2008, 12:26 PM
<p>/em waves hand in front of her face.....</p><p>PPPPPPPUUUU!! that is an old thread!  lol....</p><p>To avoid confusion from the newer players, I will lock this down <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Happy Frostfell!</p>