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View Full Version : Comprimise -- How to make everyone happy.


Agathorn
12-22-2004, 12:59 AM
Here is what I suggest. It should make EVERYONE happy except those with inflated heads and big egos.This forum was specifically created for TESTERS to post FEEDBACK on what they test and find. With the amount of NON TESTERS posting this forum has become 100% useless.What I suggest is that if you do NOT play on Test, or your post is NOT about something YOU observed while PLAYING on TEST, but you want to ASK someone who DOES player on TEST a question, post your quest in our general Test server forum.If you are a TESTER posting a comment about something you observed in game, post it here. Note that in this phrase TESTER refers to anyone, anyone who created a character on test and wants to report something they observed on test. But just because you created a character on test then want to ask a question of someome else on test/gm, that doesn't mean you post here. Post it in Test.This should satisfy everyone on both ends, and keep both forums useful. About the only ones this wouldn't satisfy is the people who have big ole egos and will post wherever they [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] well please, or those who are hoping for a dev response so post here thinking they are more likley to get one. Well you're not. They read our server forum as well so youre chances are the same either way. Please work with us here and help us make YOUR life easier when the patch goes to your server. As it is now this forum is completely useless because of the floods of non tester questions -- might as well remove it and I may suggest just that if it doesn't improve. Why bother keeping it?

BrickyardRac
12-22-2004, 01:19 AM
<DIV>I'd suggest if Sony wants this forum to be useful, they get to modding it properly.  Seems to be rather simply, really.  And gets rid of the wannabe mods.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(I have never actually started a thread here, but follow it daily.  I do not consider replying to the threads that some despise - started by non-testers - the same as starting them)</DIV>

Agathorn
12-22-2004, 01:21 AM
I'd rather we self moderate that ask SOE to, because it will be complicated if they do. They will then have to determine in some manner who should be posting and who shouldn't be. That will no doubt lead to someone being lumped into the wrong group and getting upset. Why can't we work it out ourselves?

Moorgard
12-22-2004, 01:39 AM
<DIV>No matter what means we used to restrict access to this board, non-testers would still ask their questions. You can moderate message boards, but you can't moderate curiousity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This particular board certainly isn't the only means of feedback for Test players. The directed discussions on the dev board will likely prove more useful, and we will look at adding other options in the future. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This board is pretty new, and lots of players want to know things about the current Test build, which accounts for the large number of "Is this fixed?" posts. If it proves to have no value in the future we might eliminate it, but I don't want to make such a judgement so early in its life. Nor do I want to subject other boards to the "Is this fixed?" posts that would just crop up anyway.</DIV>

BrickyardRac
12-22-2004, 01:40 AM
<DIV>Why can't we work it out ourselves?</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Honest answer?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's my opinion..could be right..could be wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People are impatient.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People have been playing on the live servers for over a month now, and some have had their progress in certain areas almost halted.  Many of the reasons behind this have existed, and have been known about, since beta.  They're still not fixed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Suggesting that to get an answer, you need to play on the Test server yourself, is good, until you want people to test the higher-end bugs (just read that not only there are bugged recipies for tier 3 armors and tier 4 armors, but the base component of the tier 5 armors is also currently bugged.  as it stands now, once you hit level 25 as an armorer, you can't make any new pieces.  Doesn't matter if you're level 38, you still are stuck making pieces from your level 25 book, and this doesn't change when you start getting level 40+ books, either).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let us clone our live characters, even freezing advancement, and we CAN test these issues.  Rather easily and effectively, also.  I guarrantee you that if Sony allowed live characters to be cloned and frozen, hundreds of people would do it to test their various pet issues, and give feedback within an hour, tops.  No one wants to redo everything just to test a fix, especially if it took 30 days to do it the first time.  Just a time waster.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony's fix list is, in places, vague at best, and incomplete (even stated that it's incomplete) in many areas.  And some fixes listed weren't broken to begin with.  Some of the fixes, I wouldn't even know what to test to see if it's fixed, because I can't tell what the fix supposedly did, other than change something (but how, no idea).  Get a good accurate fix list, and you get rid of a lot of the frustrations of interested players.  How many of the non-tester threads started here are wondering if X has been fixed yet, where X has been noted by a dev in a various thread somewhere, but is not on the list (that is described as not being complete because it would be "impossible" to list everything they fixed?  An actual accurate fix list would eliminate the vast majority of these questions (there will always be someone who doesn't read the list and ask anyway).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Self-moderation amongst a group of random strangers, on the internet, who's only requirement is to have purchased a game and found the official boards, will never work.  Wanting it to happen is fine.  Being disappointed when it doesn't is really a result of setting expectations too high.</DIV>

GameEnderB
12-22-2004, 02:20 AM
<DIV>perhaps what is needed is a "test questions" forum?</DIV>

Sebastien
12-22-2004, 04:52 AM
There are three forums for Testing. One allows devs to make announcements with no clutter. One allows devs to ask a specific question they are interested in, and explore it without clutter. And then there is this one. Here is the description:"This board is for players on Test server to discuss and respond to new features and content currently being evaluated."When and why did some of you decide that it is not permissible to have discussion amongst testers here?I find myself surprised to say this, after board warring for so many years, but I am honestly quite surprised at just how insecure, arrogant and disrespectful some posters here are. The climate is far worse than the general EQ2 community.Fortunately I am a little too old to take some of you people seriously. And I know some of you are just kids, but even so, its a shame you are so caught up with yourselves and your little world that you cannot take a moment to treat someone with decency.Personally, I value my time a bit too much to waste it here. No more test character for me.My suggestion is that SOE consider an application process the play on Test. The quality of feedback you receive is directly related to the quality of people you have here. An approach that has generally been successful for other developers is to recruit a few high-ranking guilds to do the job.<p>Message Edited by Sebastien on <span class=date_text>12-21-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:54 PM</span>

dreadsta
12-22-2004, 02:18 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BrickyardRacer wrote:<BR> <DIV>Why can't we work it out ourselves?</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Honest answer?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's my opinion..could be right..could be wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People are impatient.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People have been playing on the live servers for over a month now, and some have had their progress in certain areas almost halted.  Many of the reasons behind this have existed, and have been known about, since beta.  They're still not fixed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Suggesting that to get an answer, you need to play on the Test server yourself, is good, until you want people to test the higher-end bugs (just read that not only there are bugged recipies for tier 3 armors and tier 4 armors, but the base component of the tier 5 armors is also currently bugged.  as it stands now, once you hit level 25 as an armorer, you can't make any new pieces.  Doesn't matter if you're level 38, you still are stuck making pieces from your level 25 book, and this doesn't change when you start getting level 40+ books, either).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let us clone our live characters, even freezing advancement, and we CAN test these issues.  Rather easily and effectively, also.  I guarrantee you that if Sony allowed live characters to be cloned and frozen, hundreds of people would do it to test their various pet issues, and give feedback within an hour, tops.  No one wants to redo everything just to test a fix, especially if it took 30 days to do it the first time.  Just a time waster.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony's fix list is, in places, vague at best, and incomplete (even stated that it's incomplete) in many areas.  And some fixes listed weren't broken to begin with.  Some of the fixes, I wouldn't even know what to test to see if it's fixed, because I can't tell what the fix supposedly did, other than change something (but how, no idea).  Get a good accurate fix list, and you get rid of a lot of the frustrations of interested players.  How many of the non-tester threads started here are wondering if X has been fixed yet, where X has been noted by a dev in a various thread somewhere, but is not on the list (that is described as not being complete because it would be "impossible" to list everything they fixed?  An actual accurate fix list would eliminate the vast majority of these questions (there will always be someone who doesn't read the list and ask anyway).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Self-moderation amongst a group of random strangers, on the internet, who's only requirement is to have purchased a game and found the official boards, will never work.  Wanting it to happen is fine.  Being disappointed when it doesn't is really a result of setting expectations too high.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I like and fully support this idea!!</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Similar to the /testbuff in eq1 that bumped ya to lvl 25 with decent gear so ya could test better etc,</P>

Kwoung
12-22-2004, 10:37 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>No matter what means we used to restrict access to this board, non-testers would still ask their questions. You can moderate message boards, but you can't moderate curiousity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>..........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This board is pretty new, and lots of players want to know things about the current Test build, which accounts for the large number of "Is this fixed?" posts. If it proves to have no value in the future we might eliminate it, but I don't want to make such a judgement so early in its life. Nor do I want to subject other boards to the "Is this fixed?" posts that would just crop up anyway.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>If that is ok with you guys and acceptable, then please change the forum description and the huge notice at the top of the forum to reflect that. The large number of posts here about "keep on topic" are based off the information you provided in the above mentioned areas that lead one to belive(specifically state) that the devs would like to be able to come to an uncluttered forum to look for feedback on stuff that actually got tested, not an anything goes "Is my pet issue being addressed?" forum.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly, this forum is creating a rift between live and test players because of those notices.</DIV>