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View Full Version : Is Adept1 spell still stronger than App4?


Jodowe
12-20-2004, 04:28 PM
<DIV>Sorry for the question.</DIV> <DIV>I just read vague about pristine inks give app4 / adept4 spells on testserver.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone know if App4 is better then Adept1 - so crafting would really make sense over buying at the broker drop spells?</DIV>

Scrav
12-20-2004, 06:01 PM
The spell/ability progression goes from App 1 to App4, then Adept 1 to Adept 4 and then to master (and onwards). It would make no sense to have App4 better than Adept 1 as it would only make the system confusing. As for Adept 1 drops, I personally think they should be somewhat rare (the ones that do drop that is).

Spaceweed
12-20-2004, 08:08 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Scrav wrote:<BR>The spell/ability progression goes from App 1 to App4, then Adept 1 to Adept 4 and then to master (and onwards). It would make no sense to have App4 better than Adept 1 as it would only make the system confusing. As for Adept 1 drops, I personally think they should be somewhat rare (the ones that do drop that is).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I'd have to agree with this.</P> <P>Very rarely do I purchase app3's, when I know with a little patience and checking the brokers regularly, I will come across the adept I need - so far anyway.</P> <P>What gives me this attitude, is the fact I can often buy the adept I cheaper than the app3 - this will continue until the crafters stop being so greedy...</P>

Guk_trola
12-20-2004, 08:21 PM
<DIV>they definetly are greedy.<BR>10gp for adept 3 or more ? why would anyone spend that when all spells until around 40s are obsolete after 10 levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Shazzbott_Feldercarb
12-20-2004, 08:50 PM
<blockquote><hr>Spaceweed wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Scrav wrote:<BR>The spell/ability progression goes from App 1 to App4, then Adept 1 to Adept 4 and then to master (and onwards). It would make no sense to have App4 better than Adept 1 as it would only make the system confusing. As for Adept 1 drops, I personally think they should be somewhat rare (the ones that do drop that is).<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><P>I'd have to agree with this.</P><P>Very rarely do I purchase app3's, when I know with a little patience and checking the brokers regularly, I will come across the adept I need - so far anyway.</P><P>What gives me this attitude, is the fact I can often buy the adept I cheaper than the app3 - this will continue until the crafters stop being so greedy...</P><hr></blockquote>Greedy? I'm selling APP4s for the level 1-9 spell/skills for 8sp. Very reasonable I think, great compared to Prod servers and still go thats too expensive. Typical costs:Ink, 18cp for candlesWashes/resins/tempers, 72cp, 24cp if I have saliva/bloodQuill, 12cp for sandpaperPaper, 6cp for incenseScroll, 6cp for incense.All told, 1sp 14cp, just for raw materials. This assumes I'm able to make at least pristine ink(required to have a shot at app4). Add another silver if you buy wholesaler resin/wash/tempers.Factor in time to make all components... and failures.Add to the fact that making pristine spells/skills before becoming a scholar is almost impossible...I don't know about other craftsmen, I'm just trying to make enough to cover costs of experimenting and just basic leveling.ShazzShazz

Sebastien
12-20-2004, 09:10 PM
Hmm, Shazzbot your boardname is very familiar to me.. did you play Lineage 2? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />On topic, everything I have read says that Apprentice 4 is weaker than Adept 1. And yes, I agree that Adept 1 drops are much too common; they destroy the market.

Shazzbott_Feldercarb
12-20-2004, 09:15 PM
Nope, never did play L2. And I've had this name for a long long time.Shazz

Miracleknig
12-20-2004, 11:07 PM
WHy pay 10g for adept 3? because oh I don't know.. people charge 10g for the RARE TO MAKE IT! Suppliers = greed means crafters have to charge more.

Banditman
12-20-2004, 11:22 PM
<DIV>Rare tradeskill components ARE very costly and, well, rare.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's been my experience that combines which do not require a rare component sell for a very reasonable price.</DIV>

Zoh
12-20-2004, 11:28 PM
You have to realize that (on live servers for example) that it costs an annoying 8.5-9sp for the components for APPIII. If I sell it for less then 8-9sp, I'm not even breaking even. If I sell it for 8-9sp I'm loosing out. Therefore I need to sell it for usually 15+sp to even make a reasonable profit. These are for Tier II spells too, it only gets worse later! Sadly Tier III are even worse. Adept I's, at least the common ones, sell for less then 10sp usually. Why would you ever consider buying an AppIII? I think it should go between App II and Adept I personally, skip App IV all together.

Lancealittle
12-21-2004, 01:29 AM
<DIV>Adept 1's killing the apprentice 3 and 4 market is not someting we can 'test' on the test server. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have adept1 and adept 4 skills. I've not paid anything besides resources for any of them. The crafter was a friend, and my having an adept 1 made things easier for her. One less thing to make. The test crafters spend time raising their abilities to help the other players, and not to build a large bank account. I guess we can't test the economy on this server.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is Adept 1 stronger than App4? Of course it is. I think the underlying question you have is 'how does the ability to make app4 help us if you can find adept1 for sale?' I don't think that can be answered by people on the test server. We don't have hundereds of people in vendor mode at any hour of the day. I thought the brokers were broken when my first few checks came up with no items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as selling level 2 rares for 10 gold, It's not going to happen on the test server. The big money makers are being closed up, and for the most part that was done before most test players had a character. We won't see level 50 provisioners selling items to the NPC merchant for huge profits, or people buying resources from a broker for their harvesting tasks. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We'll get more of a reality based market on test, so I guess we won't know how some of the changes to crafting will affect live servers on patch day. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Lancealittle
12-21-2004, 01:34 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shazzbott_Feldercarb wrote:<BR><BR>Greedy? I'm selling APP4s for the level 1-9 spell/skills for 8sp. Very reasonable I think, great compared to Prod servers and still go thats too expensive. <BR><BR><BR>I don't know about other craftsmen, I'm just trying to make enough to cover costs of experimenting and just basic leveling.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Shazzbott, I don't think the people complaining about greedy merchants are talking about test. If people saw 8sp for a spell on a production sever they would buy anything you had just to resell it.</P> <P><BR> </P>

Kwoung
12-21-2004, 03:25 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Spaceweed wrote:<BR><BR> <P>What gives me this attitude, is the fact I can often buy the adept I cheaper than the app3 - this will continue until the crafters stop being so greedy...</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, it isn't crafters being greedy in most cases, it is the fact that Adept 1 spells are basically "free" since they are dropped and many drop in such quantity that the price has deflated to near nothing on live. I myself managed to upgrade almost all the spells I actually use on live to Adept 1 for less than a App 3 sells for.. even the ones that were priced very reasonably.<BR>

Evadne
12-21-2004, 03:59 AM
Spaceweed! Hate?Hi anyway.I think there is an issue with making the Adepts more available via drops and player vendors than the skill of scholars able to make AppIV is able to compete with. Why does this happen? One of the reasons is the speed we level past the earlier levels. But that applies only to the earlier levels. Later on, I am not sure what else goes into the equation.

Web
12-21-2004, 07:00 PM
<DIV>Maybe if you made, adept 1's No trade, No drop, No Value.  I am a 29 sage on Befallen, its been hell.  Leveling up has cost me more money then i have made, if it wasnt for the rare drops I dont think i would still be leveling up sage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another idea, Make it so Apprentice 3 spells drop and sages build Adept 1's and 3's and app3's</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really dont know what to do here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Webby</DIV>

Kin
12-21-2004, 07:14 PM
<DIV>if you want to make money selling spells, become a jewler and sell the scout class spells. We simply dont get drops =/</DIV>

Lancealittle
12-21-2004, 08:15 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Webco wrote:<BR> <DIV>Maybe if you made, adept 1's No trade, No drop, No Value.  I am a 29 sage on Befallen, its been hell.  Leveling up has cost me more money then i have made, if it wasnt for the rare drops I dont think i would still be leveling up sage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another idea, Make it so Apprentice 3 spells drop and sages build Adept 1's and 3's and app3's</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really dont know what to do here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Webby</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I like the sound of your first idea. I get adept1 from people and I give them away, but I can see how making them a reward for fighting group mobs would be good for the game. Another way to remove them from the brokers is to make them worth more to sell to a vendor. That would give players more cash to spend on the app4's that they need.</P> <P>The second idea really can't work with the way the game is set up. App3 and 4 are still common player crafted items. They are above the merchant items (app2) but below the rare drop level. I would be all for making adept1's drop off of boss mobs instead of common group mobs, however. It would give instanced zones more appeal if you have a good chance of getting a spell while doing it.<BR></P>

Supafroi
12-21-2004, 10:23 PM
<DIV>Lets drop the ad1 issue im sick of it and hope they nerf the drops... The end.. =p</DIV>

Gargamel
12-21-2004, 10:48 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Spaceweed wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Scrav wrote:<BR>The spell/ability progression goes from App 1 to App4, then Adept 1 to Adept 4 and then to master (and onwards). It would make no sense to have App4 better than Adept 1 as it would only make the system confusing. As for Adept 1 drops, I personally think they should be somewhat rare (the ones that do drop that is).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I'd have to agree with this.</P> <P>Very rarely do I purchase app3's, when I know with a little patience and checking the brokers regularly, I will come across the adept I need - so far anyway.</P> <P>What gives me this attitude, is the fact I can often buy the adept I cheaper than the app3 - this will continue until the crafters stop being so greedy...</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No this will happen until Adept buy-back prices are FIXED.</P> <P>For some reason, like all adept books (except lvl 50) sell back for like 1s.  People don't konw what they have and don't feel like figuring it out so they'll just put it up for whatever they see others selling for.</P> <P>Its mind-numbingly stupid that a T3 adept1 spells will 'buy-back' at a vendor for 1s, yet a app3 (that I spend 35-45s in materials to craft) sells back at 12s.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>T3 "adept" books.. <U>ALL OF THEM</U>, need to buy back to vendor for <U>AT LEAST</U> 50s</STRONG></FONT></P> <P><BR> </P>

Granhe
12-21-2004, 11:32 PM
<DIV>Not sure how easy of a change it would be, but I know the code is used in EQ1.  Would there not be a way to make the adept1's depend on the members of a group? or have the chests drop runes, parchments, ect that can be turned in for a certain class adept? Combine that with the nodrop notrade idea and crafters might actually make ends meat, as well as give adventurers spells they want rather than selling and buying.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as being overcharged, try leveling up a crafter and making spells. Add up all the money you spend to reach the point you consistently make app3's, even just the level 1-9 ones, and ask again if 5-10sp isn't an ok price.  Adventurers overcharge more for raw materials than crafters do for finished products.</DIV>

Shazzbott_Feldercarb
12-21-2004, 11:41 PM
<blockquote><hr>Jodowein wrote:<DIV>Sorry for the question.</DIV><DIV>I just read vague about pristine inks give app4 / adept4 spells on testserver.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Anyone know if App4 is better then Adept1 - so crafting would really make sense over buying at the broker drop spells?</DIV><hr></blockquote>Well, this has gotten way off course. The answer to the original question, yes, Adept 1 is still better then Apprentice IV.The economy question is better discussed in the tradeskill forum.Shazz

Siltae
12-22-2004, 12:06 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lancealittle wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have adept1 and adept 4 skills. I've not paid anything besides resources for any of them. The crafter was a friend, and my having an adept 1 made things easier for her. One less thing to make. The test crafters spend time raising their abilities to help the other players, and not to build a large bank account. I guess we can't test the economy on this server.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Am I reading the above as Sages can now make Adept 4 as well on Test...of did you mean App IV and not Adept IV?  There was no mention of this in the lastest Test patch notes....only App IV when making a pristine combine.  </DIV>

Lancealittle
12-22-2004, 12:58 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Siltae wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lancealittle wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have adept1 and adept 4 skills. I've not paid anything besides resources for any of them. The crafter was a friend, and my having an adept 1 made things easier for her. One less thing to make. The test crafters spend time raising their abilities to help the other players, and not to build a large bank account. I guess we can't test the economy on this server.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Am I reading the above as Sages can now make Adept 4 as well on Test...of did you mean App IV and not Adept IV?  There was no mention of this in the lastest Test patch notes....only App IV when making a pristine combine.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I misstyped that. I meant app4 skills. Oops.<BR>

Siltae
12-22-2004, 05:50 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lancealittle wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Siltae wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lancealittle wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have adept1 and adept 4 skills. I've not paid anything besides resources for any of them. The crafter was a friend, and my having an adept 1 made things easier for her. One less thing to make. The test crafters spend time raising their abilities to help the other players, and not to build a large bank account. I guess we can't test the economy on this server.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Am I reading the above as Sages can now make Adept 4 as well on Test...of did you mean App IV and not Adept IV?  There was no mention of this in the lastest Test patch notes....only App IV when making a pristine combine.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I misstyped that. I meant app4 skills. Oops.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Whew...good!  Just made Adept 3 Dark Distortion this past weekend...and was hoping it wasn't for naught hehe.  Thanks for clarifying!</P> <P> </P>

nicholaspoi
12-22-2004, 07:13 PM
<DIV>Great point 100% correct.  The other point below about the scout/jewler combi is also spot on.  Sages are total at a loss because of the free adept 1 drops.  It does not make any sence at all!.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Enoel</DIV> <DIV>Sgae level 23</DIV> <DIV>Everfort</DIV>

Nim
12-25-2004, 09:25 PM
Apprentice IV ? So this a new feature in the patch.. Didn't think there was App 4... Looks like buying all spells again..And when will Master III spells be implemented.. LOL Yea and has anyone got a Tier 4/5 Rare? And if so how many dozens of GP did it go for?

CerraWhisperwind
12-25-2004, 09:37 PM
<blockquote><hr>Granhest wrote:<DIV>Not sure how easy of a change it would be, but I know the code is used in EQ1. Would there not be a way to make the adept1's depend on the members of a group? or have the chests drop runes, parchments, ect that can be turned in for a certain class adept? Combine that with the nodrop notrade idea and crafters might actually make ends meat, as well as give adventurers spells they want rather than selling and buying.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>As far as being overcharged, try leveling up a crafter and making spells. Add up all the money you spend to reach the point you consistently make app3's, even just the level 1-9 ones, and ask again if 5-10sp isn't an ok price. Adventurers overcharge more for raw materials than crafters do for finished products.</div><hr></blockquote>I leveled up a scholar (17 right now) on test, and crafting paid for itself. Selling my failures and doing the 12 silver reward crafting collection quests has given me more money than I would have had without crafting. Right now it costs 9c net to make a teir 2 spell upgrade scroll or rune (42c in materials minus 33c in selling back the powder you get as an extra while refining the ink). Warrior potions cost more because of the solution you must buy for over a silver. It does take about 2 hours to make 20 pristine inks, but I get experience while doing so still so I write this time off as playing the game. Is 10sp of pure profit an ok price? On test server I give them away.

Rize
12-26-2004, 05:13 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Guk_trolane wrote:<BR> <DIV>they definetly are greedy.<BR>10gp for adept 3 or more ? why would anyone spend that when all spells until around 40s are obsolete after 10 levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> You my friend have no clue <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I used Ball of Fire Adept 3 (level 23 spell) till level 44. Second you go mine the rare needed to make the Adept 3 and then say their over priced. Currenlty I have never even gotten a rare. Btw I am not a crafted and do not agree with a lot of there prices but I do agree with the adept 3 spell prices. Lastly do you know how many crafters it takes to make a spell? Three. One to turn the rare into the ink, another to make quilles and paper and finaly the Sage to write the spell.

Soloras
12-27-2004, 08:32 AM
<DIV>Hey all!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me say right up front that I have much respect for the people who make the most of their tradeskill abilities.  Those of you who stick with it will prove to be UBER important in the later stages of the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With that said, there are several important reasons we can't completely do away with spell drops.  Does the system need a tune-up?  Oh heck yeah it does.  But I also know the economy on the server I call home is way too messed up to take away this one good alternative to buying from other players.  For example:  As a sorcerer one of my main spells is Blaze.  And I was fortunate to get an App III for about 35 silver.  Very fair indeed.  Apparently, the Adept I version of Blaze can't be crafted by very many people on the server yet because for the last 3 weeks (except during server down time) I have checked the broker everyday, looking to buy it.  And th one time I actually saw it there, it was selling for 10 Gold!  I am just now getting to level 19, and there is no way I can afford to dump that kind of cash into an Adept I spell when I already have App III.  And how much is Adept II going to cost?  25 gold?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As adventurers a good deal of our money comes from drops and looting as you all know.  If we want to keep advancing, we have to hunt harder and harder creatures, which involves a lot of grouping.  If a group doesn't lotto the loot, I don't stay in it very long.  You know the deal, you win some lotto's, and you lose some.  After a few good hours in a group you get maybe 25 silver worth of goods to sell to a merchant so you can turn around and go hunt some more.  I'd have to hunt for countless hours to buy that one spell, so I can start over again to buy the next Adept of the same spell.  Keep in mind how many spells I'll need by the time I hit level 30....  That's not including weapons, armor, food or paying a mendor everytime I wipe.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I want everyone to have a great game experience regardless of which end of the market you are on.  In my opinion the best way to do that is to take the idea mentioned above and add a few twists to it.  First, you remove Adept I spells from mob drops and replace them with App IV spells.  Then, you take the Tier II and III goods that need to be harvested to make the high level spells and skills and make them slightly less rare so crafters can afford to make the goods and we can afford to buy them.  Lastly, take the ability to make App IV spells back away from the crafters so that we can still get something off of a drop that is "unique" and feel we are not hunting in vain.  The crafters win because they get to make all the best spells and skills, and the rest of us win too because we get a more readily available supply of goods at a fair price.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe it's an over-simplified pipe dream, or maybe it would work.  I'm sure other things would have to be adjusted to make it work, but in the long run I think this plan would whip the economy on my server into shape nicely.  Now let's hear what you think!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solaras....</DIV>

CerraWhisperwind
12-27-2004, 08:23 PM
<blockquote><hr>...For example: As a sorcerer one of my main spells is Blaze. And I was fortunate to get an App III for about 35 silver. Very fair indeed. ...</blockquote>Do you realize it costs a whopping 9c to make this spell? It costs 42c in materials, minus the 33c sell back price of the loam. This is true for any spell except warrior types, which also require a 1s 44c soloution (tier 2 spells only of course, which Blaze is).As for all the money you spend getting to this point? I gained money from crafting thanks to the 12s collection quests and selling back failures. People that want 35s for a 9c spell are just greedy. Are they crafters or just out for a quick buck?

Conani
12-27-2004, 11:23 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rizean wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Guk_trolane wrote:<BR> <DIV>they definetly are greedy.<BR>10gp for adept 3 or more ? why would anyone spend that when all spells until around 40s are obsolete after 10 levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> You my friend have no clue <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I used Ball of Fire Adept 3 (level 23 spell) till level 44. Second you go mine the rare needed to make the Adept 3 and then say their over priced. Currenlty I have never even gotten a rare. Btw I am not a crafted and do not agree with a lot of there prices but I do agree with the adept 3 spell prices. Lastly do you know how many crafters it takes to make a spell? Three. One to turn the rare into the ink, another to make quilles and paper and finaly the Sage to write the spell.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I have to agree here. I'm a 24 Ranger, and I still have Quick Strike Adept I on my hot bar, which is a level 1 scout skill. It doesn't do a whole lot of damage (I think around 30 or so per hit). Yes the skill is grey to me, but the art does more damage than either of my weapons are capable of (I dual wield a couple of high speed daggers, I think my max damage on each weapon is like 19 or 20). It is one of the few 'frontal assault' skills I have, so it is kind of necessary for solo-ing. Also, it is one of the triggers for my Heroic Opportunities that has a decent refresh rate. Since I still use it, I can't think of a reason not to upgrade it. Now, I might not be willing to pay for an Adept 3 for it. I'd also have to think long and hard about purchasing a Master I (*IF* I ever saw one, so far I've only seen one Master I for any of my skills, and the player wanted 15gp for it). However, buying it up to Adept 1 was a no-brainer really. I just wish it was easier for scouts to find the adepts they need.</DIV>

Zinj
12-27-2004, 11:28 PM
<DIV>On TEST.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've been making Apprentice IV potions and currently attempting to sell for 10sp each.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's because vendor sellback of an Apprentice IV potion is a little more than 1sp; and because the only Adept I's I see being sold are priced at 35sp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just at the final combine for an Apprentice IV it takes me roughly 3 to 4 starts before I can get a decent chance at success.  A single poof at the crude level usually indicates a failure to be able to reach pristine level.  And 3 poofs at crude = crud!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah, and Ink has to be pristine before trying. I'm pretty good, only 25% failure rate at this point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So Dye has to be pristine too.  Again, I'm good, only about 12% failure here, roughly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Washes, Resins, Oils: I'm good enough now that I can start a combine, and come back to a pristine finished product, inspite of poofs and adverse events, about 90% of the time.  If I sit there hovering over it and cancelling adverse events, that can rise to 99%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW, I play a level 11 barbarian brawler in Freeport on TEST.  Scholar 14 atm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Prub
12-28-2004, 02:55 AM
<DIV>To be honoest I cant stand the fact that scholars seem to complain about adept 1s killing thier market.  I have an alch and a jeweler on live server.  First off I have not seen adept 1s for all the skills.  So instead of complaining about the few (and yes there are only a few per class) that have commonly seen adept 1s, concentrate on the ones that dont have adept 1s.  Thats  only common sense. Why make them if there is no market for them?  There are plenty of others that do have a market value.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For instance what I have done is if it is a commonly seen adept 1 I make 1 of them to pristine( for the bonus exp) then I dont make them again.  It only takes a little checking to see which ones would sell and which ones you would loose money on.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see no problem with the adept 1s right now. I see no problem with the ammount of rares in the game I think it is just fine.  I like the idea of the app 4s which we have heard about since beta and am glad they are finaly implementing them.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short.. people are too lazy to do the research to see what would sell and what wouldnt so they would rather complain.  Get over it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Prub Dragonbane</DIV> <DIV>23 Guardian of Curium the Gnome</DIV> <DIV>25 Jeweler of Karanas Fallen </DIV> <DIV>Unrest Server</DIV>

Nim
12-28-2004, 04:47 AM
Yea i agree about Adepts not being useless on spells/abilities which are lower lvl.. Like For example although i'm lvl 24 and BoV (Bestowal of Vitae) is jsut gone blue at Apprentice I - it heals 82 per hit.. Each lvl added 6 healing but adding apprentice II increased it by 10.. And I bought a n Adept III BoV and now that skill what was "maxed2 out at 82 healing now heals a 142.. so nearly double effectivness.. On a skill what had become maxed out.. The actual lvl of the spell compared to your lvl is less indicative of effectiveness than increasing the Apprentice/Adept part of the spell..always try to have your skills at least Appr III/IV/Adept I.. I'ved heard encounters are based on App II.. so any less means your totally ineffective while increasing past App II gradually makes that skill more powered.Sry if I'm not making too much sense.. too many Vodkas... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Soloras
12-28-2004, 09:31 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CerraWhisperwind wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ...For example: As a sorcerer one of my main spells is Blaze. And I was fortunate to get an App III for about 35 silver. Very fair indeed. ...</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Do you realize it costs a whopping 9c to make this spell? It costs 42c in materials, minus the 33c sell back price of the loam. This is true for any spell except warrior types, which also require a 1s 44c soloution (tier 2 spells only of course, which Blaze is).<BR><BR>As for all the money you spend getting to this point? I gained money from crafting thanks to the 12s collection quests and selling back failures. People that want 35s for a 9c spell are just greedy. Are they crafters or just out for a quick buck?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I know to another crafter this may seem like an extremely unfair price.  But when you consider the cost of this App III (35 silver)  and then the Adept I price (10 gold);  who's really trying to rip people off?   I would have loved to get an App III for 10 silver, but this spell is uber-useful so I don't mind paying more for it....  Wish everyone felt like you though because then my server economy would certainly be a buyers' market.   :smileywink:

Ennis
12-28-2004, 03:06 PM
Prub,I sincerely hope that SoE increases the variety, stats, and frequency of dropped jewelry for all classes. I see jewelers charging 1gp+ for items I know cost them a little over 5sp to make even if they are buying all the subcomponets-in essence ripping people off blind because they can get away with it.Sales of "failures" to NPC vendors are greatly overvalued, too. The resale price should be no more then 2sp.An increased drop rate and variety of jewelry items would go a long way to alleviate the rampant profiteering going on by jewelers. It would allow the players who do not have the money to spend on the outrageoulsy priced crafted jewelry a way to obtain high quality pieces.Above all it would put you in the same position as the Sages, making items that most players can get better and cheaper items via drops.Go ahead and flame away, Prub. All it will do is to illustrate your hypocrisy if you do not agree to the above. It is so easy for you to say "get over it"-would you be able to "get over it" if your profits took a nosedive into the negative column? No, didn't think so.

Nim
12-28-2004, 03:31 PM
Yea they charge 1gp because that's what it's owrth.. don't based things on HOW much it cost.. Remember TIME it takes to make the item is taken into account.. I'm happy to pay 1gp for decent jewelry.. i mean NPC sell jewelry for 25sp but that's with no stats just the base item with AC modifier..It's not hard to get 1gp.. A lot of people don't seem to do tradeskilling which is a easy way to make money with Wholesale quests (collecting resources) and workshop tasks.. Like I make 144sp on workshop quests now.. making just 10 of some food.. Of course it's getting there..