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View Full Version : (Question for Bordael) Regarding the Exp Boost, and the HO Bug


JerleMina
12-19-2004, 10:34 PM
Howdy,Two questions, if you could..1) Are we going to get the exp boost that the production servers are getting?(Considering we were down twice as long as them. Yeah I know it's Test and all, but it never hurts to ask <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)2) Now that the production servers have been stabilised, is there any chance of getting the HO patch today?

Kerri
12-21-2004, 12:28 PM
Fixing the HO bug is VERY important, IMO. While this is the test server, we have to roll with the punches and it's about bugs not levels, it makes it really hard to fight solo without HOs. Due to the low population on the test server, soloing has been the way I leveled to 10 today (my first day on the server). Without HO, it's going to be hard to level and see more content that needs testing. Also, if someone new to the server comes along and uses HOs, it's very annoying.

Kwoung
12-21-2004, 12:38 PM
<DIV>Does make it harder to kill stuff.. but I for one do not miss the HO's at all. It makes hunting infinitly more enjoyable without them.. I get to chat with my friends, kid around etc.. instead of staring at the stupid screen trying to press a particular key at the precise moment. I would love to see damage upped in general to compensate and the HO's go away forever. Seems like EQ2 makes it a lot harder to have a community and fun in game with all the "features" they have like HO's and those crafting events... takes a lot away from having plain old fun with friends and makes you focus on min/maxing your play style while crafting and hunting.... bleh.</DIV>

Vrazu
12-21-2004, 01:45 PM
<DIV>I have to agree with Kwoung, HO's are a hassle.  I don't play MMO's to feel like I'm playing a manic FPS with all the button mashing and having to worry when and where I use attacks.  It drains all the fun out of combat because I'm to occupied looking at my skills refreshing to actually enjoy the combat or enjoy the combat animations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While grouped, there's never enough time to chat since combat is so fast and furious, unless you can type 60 words a minute while keeping track of skill refreshes, timing HO's and all the other myriad resposibilities of group combat, you're not going to socialize much with your buds.  I say take them out, upgrade combat damage and let us enjoy the game, the group and our guilds while adventuring.</DIV>

Johnd
12-21-2004, 02:02 PM
<DIV>well.. maybe the fights are furious and fast.. cause it are fights.. if you wanna chat you can chat between battles ( power - hp regeneration ) or visit a house/inn/what ever you like.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also the HO's make the difference between a bunch of solo players kicking buttons or a well oiled group that listens to eachother.</DIV> <DIV>HO's are a great way of making teams more effective...</DIV>

Fug
12-21-2004, 07:29 PM
<DIV>During the main server downtime I made a new character on the test server to try out some of the new stuff.  With 30-50 characters on newbie island the zone crashed about once every 2-5 minutes. This made it almost impossible for me to level up to test if the HO bug really does crash the zone.  I also noticed a new term in ooc chat - "HO Griefing : where a player intentionally uses a heroic opprotunity to crash a zone to cause greif to other player/players."</DIV>

Kwoung
12-21-2004, 10:30 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Johndoo wrote:<BR> <DIV>well.. maybe the fights are furious and fast.. cause it are fights.. if you wanna chat you can chat between battles ( power - hp regeneration ) or visit a house/inn/what ever you like. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>There is a huge difference between getting online to just chat (ie: hang out at a inn) and being able to have some fun while hunting. Since the HO's have been gone, the enjoyment of our hunting with friends has incresed a thousand fold. You get to make those fun little comments in response to the mobs and talk about whatever... all without having to worry about missing your turn to mash some button because you were in the middle of a sentance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I find the interaction between players to be the most important part of the game in a MMO and the interaction between player and game second. Well actually, they should complement each other and the current HO system does not do that, it takes away from player interaction in order to increase game interaction and that in my book, it a bad thing. If the designers do that enough, we might as well be playing a stand alone game instead of a MMO... in my opinion, besides time spent walking around in the city, the game doesn't support player interaction very well... heck, even while walking around its hard to chat without running into a wall or off a cliff.</DIV>

Kerri
12-21-2004, 10:55 PM
No offense guys, but if you think a solo HO is button mashing, you mustn't be good at games in general... I mean, it's 3 keystrokes, and they don't have to be precise or in rhythm, just in order. /shrug, I think it's easier, and while this is a completely different game the EQII HOs are FAR easier and less mashy than the style chains in DAoC, which were a huge PITA. I guess I just come from a more annoying system, so I'm happy with this one.

Calibre
12-21-2004, 11:24 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kwoung wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Johndoo wrote:<BR> <DIV>well.. maybe the fights are furious and fast.. cause it are fights.. if you wanna chat you can chat between battles ( power - hp regeneration ) or visit a house/inn/what ever you like. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>There is a huge difference between getting online to just chat (ie: hang out at a inn) and being able to have some fun while hunting. Since the HO's have been gone, the enjoyment of our hunting with friends has incresed a thousand fold. You get to make those fun little comments in response to the mobs and talk about whatever... all without having to worry about missing your turn to mash some button because you were in the middle of a sentance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I find the interaction between players to be the most important part of the game in a MMO and the interaction between player and game second. Well actually, they should complement each other and the current HO system does not do that, it takes away from player interaction in order to increase game interaction and that in my book, it a bad thing. If the designers do that enough, we might as well be playing a stand alone game instead of a MMO... in my opinion, besides time spent walking around in the city, the game doesn't support player interaction very well... heck, even while walking around its hard to chat without running into a wall or off a cliff.</DIV> <P><BR> <HR> </P> <P>Really have to agree, here. I've come full circle on this issue: starting with becoming a HO [Removed for Content] to now a 'whatever I want to do' combatant. I feel HOs should be removed, damage or skills adjusted to compensate (or enemies) so we can get back to interacting with the people around us instead of the machine. HOs and that ridiculous crafting drama are not a substitute for human interaction. In addition, when I see these kinds of systems in a game, it makes me think this, instantly: whoever designed this part of the game got lazy. Instead of figuring out really cool stuff various specials and activities can do, he or she just added unnecessary and irritating complexity---and made it a  requirement, to boot.</P> <P>That, ladies and gentlemen, is NOT good game design: it's lazy game design.</P> <P> </P> <P>all IMO, of course</P> <P>Cal</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

Kwoung
12-22-2004, 12:11 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kerrick wrote:<BR>No offense guys, but if you think a solo HO is button mashing, you mustn't be good at games in general... I mean, it's 3 keystrokes, and they don't have to be precise or in rhythm, just in order. /shrug, I think it's easier, and while this is a completely different game the EQII HOs are FAR easier and less mashy than the style chains in DAoC, which were a huge PITA. I guess I just come from a more annoying system, so I'm happy with this one.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Not talking about solo.. where you wouldn't be interacting with groupmates anyways.. we are talking about group play. And using HO's *effectively* in a group is far from simple button mashing, it requires intense concentraion and precise timing on getting the correct ability off... which almost completely negates your ability to chat or interact with the players around you while in combat as you are stuck interacting with the game. The same goes for crafting events.</DIV>

civilgeek
12-22-2004, 02:50 AM
<DIV>This whole thing about removing HO's is rediculous.  If you don't want to use them, <FONT color=#ff0000>then don't </FONT>and suffer the downside of not being able to kill mobs above your current lvl.  You can not simply remove the HO's and increase the damage output of players as this would change the con system.   At the current the system is very ballanced and if you decide not to use HO's then you will have a very close battle with white and will probably die taking on a yellow (much like the original EQ and as intended)... and if you do use HO's you can take on yellows much of the time.  This is exactly the way it should be, as  it rewards you for your extra effort and skill whether grouped or solo (if you can call solo HO's skill or difficult).  </DIV>

Miral
12-23-2004, 06:49 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> civilgeek wrote:<BR> <DIV>This whole thing about removing HO's is rediculous.  If you don't want to use them, <FONT color=#ff0000>then don't </FONT>and suffer the downside of not being able to kill mobs above your current lvl.  You can not simply remove the HO's and increase the damage output of players as this would change the con system.   At the current the system is very ballanced and if you decide not to use HO's then you will have a very close battle with white and will probably die taking on a yellow (much like the original EQ and as intended)... and if you do use HO's you can take on yellows much of the time.  This is exactly the way it should be, as  it rewards you for your extra effort and skill whether grouped or solo (if you can call solo HO's skill or difficult).  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I agree completely. Also, what's so hard about it? button mashing? give me a break, everything has a 30 second grace period.... 30 serconds!! I can KILL yellows faster than that!

overfloat
12-23-2004, 12:08 PM
<DIV>Not meaning to derail the thread further, but...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... even without HO's, there's a relatively large amount of "button mashing" involved in EQ2 combat. From my point of view that's a good thing -- having played EQ1 as a rogue, I can tell you that having one Backstab button to push every 5-10 seconds does not make for "fun fights", and the conversation is kinda one-sided when the healers/mezzers/taunters in group are all unable to talk much anyway because they have to carefully watch health/mezzes/aggro to respond quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> If you're not button mashing normally in EQ2 combat, you're either:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(a) playing a non-damage dealing class fulfilling one primary role only (eg. healer or mezzer, not nuking but waiting until your mezzes/heals are required), or</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(b) not really filling your potential in group<EM> (nice way of saying "slacking off" :smileytongue: , especially if you're a damage-dealer, hehe)</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solo, the lack of HO's made absolutely no difference to how often I had to "mash" buttons as a swashbuckler -- I still used all the same 10-12 combat skills just as frequently, just not Lucky Break (the HO trigger) to link them all together for bonus buffs/damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grouped, the lack of HO's actually <STRONG>increased </STRONG>the amount of button mashing for me. I have even more combat skills to use when not tanking (backstabs, etc.) so I'm mashing 13-15 combat skills <STRONG>constantly</STRONG>, rather than using one or two... then waiting until people progress the HOs so I don't break the chain <EM>(during which time I can usually type a small book) </EM>... waiting some more for the templar to continue the chain <EM>(always the templar! :smileytongue: )</EM> ... then finally doing a quick flurry of skills again before the next group HO is started. The lack of HOs actually increased the rate at which I had to press buttons in group, otherwise I wasn't really fulfilling my damage potential (and without the bonus damage/buffs from HOs, that full damage potential was often needed).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>HOs are a fun way to reward people for being patient and working together, and for demonstrating some degree of skill and game knowledge beyond simple "button mashing". Heck, the entire point of HOs is that their effects are meant to allow you to defeat encounters using less power and fewer button presses -- just have to do them in the right order! :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class=date_text>12-22-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:11 PM</span>

Jayces
12-23-2004, 01:02 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fugue wrote:<BR> <DIV>During the main server downtime I made a new character on the test server to try out some of the new stuff.  With 30-50 characters on newbie island the zone crashed about once every 2-5 minutes<STRONG>. This made it almost impossible for me to level up to test if the HO bug really does crash the zone</STRONG>.  I also noticed a new term in ooc chat - "HO Griefing : where a player intentionally uses a heroic opprotunity to crash a zone to cause greif to other player/players."</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Can't quite understand why you would want to test something that has been advertised by both players and devs here on the forums and in game as not working and shouldn;t be used. HO's are broken for everybody, there is nothing to test at the moment and attempting to would only aggrevate more people as you succesfully bring down the zone.</P> <P>As for HO's, there are some very good guides out there and they do work in a well organised team. I think it boils down to people wanting the best all ways.</P> <P>Let's look at the facts, a player (most classes) or group who has taken advantage of every other feature in game (white conning equipment, white conning abilities, upgraded spells etc) can easily defeat white conning encounters without using HO's.</P> <P>The same people above using slightly better stuff can handle a bit higher, just need to know your limits.</P> <P>The same situation with using HO's though is that you can hande yellow / oranges or even reds (to some of the lower end people in a group) and win with less downtime and less damage.</P> <P>The point is that you shouldn't be asking for the damage to be increased and HO's scrapped because then straight away everyone is killing much higher mobs, gaining more xp and levelling faster. You could ask for HO's to be scrapped and then everyone stays on an even keel as they are now. The true solution is for everyone to learn how to work in a group and coordinate their HO's to get that extra bonus.<BR></P>

Shazzbott_Feldercarb
12-23-2004, 05:38 PM
Ok, this is getting silly.The HO bug is gone on test. It has already been fixed, it would have been fixed sooner, but there was that little problem on the live servers that diverted attention.The should we have HOs or not discussion, it would be better on another board like http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board?board.id=spellart If you want to feedback that a particular effect isn't working, thats different. The whole should we/shouldn't we thing is a little out of place here.Shazz