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Turin
12-18-2004, 06:52 AM
<DIV><EM>- Harvesting quests can no longer be completed by purchasing the items from a broker.<BR></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>Why not ?? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This just seems rediculous. Who cares how the these types of quests are completed. This one move with destroy the game play of many who gather these materials and don't feel like tradeskilling quests AND those who dont feel like gathering items but are more than happy to purchase them from players to complete the quests. Why bother having an economy. Not many will bother gathering now apart from when they need items for actual tradeskilling and the market will flood with items noone particularly wants.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope this does not go live. It makes no sense at all.</DIV>

Speak
12-18-2004, 07:01 AM
<DIV>Destroy the economy?  How ? I do not craft.  But I do the trade craft  wholesale quest all the time At Tier 3 15 items yield 48 silver.  The surplus materials are sold for 3 to 4 silver each.  So there is a real reason to harvest to the tune of 5 or 6 gold in earned money from a real good long Tier 3 run.  Even more at T-4.  This money in turn is spend on crafters goods and services.  At the same time with gold and agate clusters selling at 3 to 4 silver its not cost effective , buy and turn in for a reward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One bug part of equation still exits.  You can buy 15 items you can have a firnd harvest 15 items, have a friend give them to you one at a time and journal still updates.  If he places single items in each  slot, you can do 6 items at a time.</DIV>

Cutsha
12-18-2004, 07:24 AM
<DIV>Lets say I want to craft up a bunch of fighter skill upgrades to work on leveling my scholar (who will be an alchemist), those need Larent Suspensions and a stack of them costs 23s and some odd copper; or roughly around that amount.  Plus candles, plus water for resins, washes, and oils.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I could easily earn back that money spent through sales while in vendor mode, or immediately earn back that money and them some by standing between the wholesaler quest giver and the broker.  Take a quest, buy from the broker, turn in.  Repeat.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As long as I buy the resources for 60c each I make a 3s profit.  I love it when I get a quest to collect tubers or, even better, maple.  Those are frequently found for 48c and 24c respectively at their low-end prices.  I can keep hitting up these quests over and over again until I hit one for sullied average pelts--which are seldom less than 1s each.  Sometimes I will still do that quest before I can ask for a new one and take the 3s loss, just so I can continue on with buying turquoise, tubers, maple, and iron.  With enough patience, time, and a flooded market these quests can give me a small, but consistent profit.  Not to mention it raises my society status very quickly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone who typically buys their supplies from the broker to use in crafting can see the problem right there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm just one person, and in a normal session when I resort to this practice (which is infrequent), I could quickly buy up all the resources.  Which leaves all the higher priced comps for the other crafters to buy and earn less of a profit for themselves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Move on to Tier 3 and I'm sure the potential profit of this practice jumps a good bit over my paltry 3s profit.  And what about beyond T3?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is quick easy money, that shouldn't be so.</DIV>

Cruza
12-19-2004, 03:59 PM
<DIV>At tier 3 you need 15 items per quest, and the average cost  is 3 sp for an item, that make the same profit, 3sp (the reward is 48 sp for a T3 task).</DIV>

Miracleknig
12-19-2004, 06:16 PM
3 sp per item? On my server it'd be about 1-2s.

Edowen
12-19-2004, 07:43 PM
<DIV>Aye, permitting TSers to buy resources to complete wholesaler requests raises the prices for TSers who buy resources to craft items.  However removing that capability means that toons who are primarily TSers may not be able to complete wholesaler tasks at all - their adventuring level may not permit them to do the harvesting themselves, even if their harvesting skills are high enough.  There are two alternatives that may be better than simply removing purchasing from the broker as an option for TSers to complete wholesaler tasks:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Make the assignment of tasks based on the lower of a toon's adventuring level and TS level.  That would mean that the toon would always be capable of doing the harvesting from the point of view of being able to get to the area and not immediately dying there.  In this alternative, removing the option to buy from the broker is okay, since the toon can still go out and harvest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Increase the amount of resources in the economy and decrease the price paid by the wholesaler for a completed task, so even after the TSers buy from the broker the prices on the remaining resources sold by the broker are still low enough for ppl who are seeking to buy them to craft items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edowen</DIV>

Draxre
12-20-2004, 03:08 PM
<blockquote><hr>Speaker wrote:<DIV>Destroy the economy? How ? I do not craft. But I do the trade craft wholesale quest all the time At Tier 3 15 items yield 48 silver. The surplus materials are sold for 3 to 4 silver each. So there is a real reason to harvest to the tune of 5 or 6 gold in earned money from a real good long Tier 3 run. Even more at T-4. This money in turn is spend on crafters goods and services. At the same time with gold and agate clusters selling at 3 to 4 silver its not cost effective , buy and turn in for a reward.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>One bug part of equation still exits. You can buy 15 items you can have a firnd harvest 15 items, have a friend give them to you one at a time and journal still updates. If he places single items in each slot, you can do 6 items at a time.</DIV><hr></blockquote>what if i buy my 15 items, hands them to a friend, which gives them back to me ? does the quest updates from the bought items ? I would think so. And if it's so, what a useless (non)fix. This whole harvest quest business looks like more of the rest of the TS problem, half-thought answer to poorly analysed problems.Make the wholesaler merchant buy harvested ressources for a set price. Change wholesaler quests to tier1 crafting activities.

WindFre
12-21-2004, 10:07 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Draxredd wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>what if i buy my 15 items, hands them to a friend, which gives them back to me ? does the quest updates from the bought items ? I would think so. And if it's so, what a useless (non)fix. This whole harvest quest business looks like more of the rest of the TS problem, half-thought answer to poorly analysed problems.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>But that takes time coordination and is 10 times the difficulty of buying from a broker.<BR>

Banks_Lionhea
12-21-2004, 11:42 PM
<DIV>I understand the desire to see the game implemented as it was meant to be played. </DIV> <DIV>I can even understand how it can be considered exploitative (in a negative sense).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, <STRONG>consider</STRONG> this  please:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a harvester of many many items, (my bank is overflowing with them), </DIV> <DIV>I find that what I have previously harvested cannot be used toward completing a tradeskill task.</DIV> <DIV>I instead must harvest new items. </DIV> <DIV> It is because of this - what I would consider an <EM>oversight -</EM> that I use the broker to sell to myself .</DIV> <DIV>I then am able to fullfill the tradeskill task, lower my bank inventory and receive credit for what I myslef have already accomplished.</DIV> <DIV> I am not exploiting anything. I believe I have found a workaround .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So , my <STRONG>suggestion</STRONG> is :</DIV> <DIV>Take away the ability to receive tradeskill task credit from bought items if you must, </DIV> <DIV>but please,at the very least,  make the items that we have previously harvested ; eligible for tradeskill task credit.</DIV>

Zord
12-31-2004, 09:02 AM
<DIV>By allowing players to purchase from the broker to fulfil tradeskill quests you are actually stimulating the economy.  Consider this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. You are encouraging people to go out and harvest as there is a market there much bigger than just the craftsman.  You are putting money in those peoples pockets.  Often these are newer people trying to make money where they will spend in the PLAYER economy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. If the practice is stopped people will find it harder to sell the resources and stop doing so (too much bother for little reward).  This will in turn RAISE prices as less people will be harvesting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. You are helping to establish a proper price point for the resources.  Prices will stabilise around the point where the resources to buy match the quest reward.  eg you will see prices around 2s90c for the resources instead of people trying to gouge you 10s or more for them!  With a proper price stabilised for the resources it makes the prices for the produced items from the tradeskillers also stablise.  Everyone wins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. How else will people be able to earn enough to spend a few golds on the new armour YOU just crafted and keep coming back for more? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

PhourZwanZig
12-31-2004, 09:34 PM
<DIV>what I see is if they didnt change this was that you wouldnt find harvested items on the market for cheep, rising the cost that merchants sell their items for..  Therefor making this change forces those to get their items on their own, not taking away from the merchants selling them and keeping the already inflated prices where they are..</DIV>

FloydNakamic
01-01-2005, 01:39 AM
<DIV>unfortunately what is good for each of us individually in the short term is bad for the economy (and therefore eventually each of us individually) in the long term.  In essence, making you gather the items yourself puts somewhat of a cap on how much you can redeem in any one game session.  While i like being able to basically play the broker markets by buying low priced resources and turning them in for coin, it is extremely inflationary.  Since the money I use to buy the resources is coming from the game and not another player it is money being added to the system.  If more and more people who would otherwise be crafting are using this system to make money then there is more money chasing fewer products and prices have to go up accordingly.  There WILL be inflation in this game - it has to happen eventually but there should be every attempt to keep it under as much control as possible.  </DIV>

shogah
01-02-2005, 08:51 PM
<DIV>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While i like being able to basically play the broker markets by buying low priced resources and turning them in for coin, it is extremely inflationary.  Since the money I use to buy the resources is coming from the game and not another player it is money being added to the system.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I believe you are missing another area here. Granted getting TS rewards for Guild Quests do add money to the game economy you also have to take into account that those same players are still buying things from NPC's. Even if its just water and bread... In time when they get the upper tiered food items worked out then the players will be doing that but until then. we get our basic staples from npc's...Another point.... The broker charges 20%. It goes back out of the system. There's another factor that stabilizes the economy... crafters also have to buy a lot of basic item from the wholesaler's....i.e....coal, candles.....etc.... Once again, these funds are being removed from the game. Inflation at this point is basically moot. We haven't even stabilized the economy enough to be able to consider inflation. Then we have those idiots who buy everything that is 1s and below to try to cause inflation and basically turn a profit by unethical means. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets not consider inflation yet... Lets try to stabilize the market and get these people who are trying to abuse it. Those that are buying or trading to get the Guild Quests done, they aren't abusing anything... Just trying to get a little coin to spend on stuff that will benefit the economy later. Money is hard enough to come by in this game. Why shaft a way for people to make a small profit. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>my 2 coppers......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shoga</DIV>

shogah
01-02-2005, 08:58 PM
<DIV>Here Here.... I agree whole heartedly.... when I created my first char I went out and collected everything I could. That left me with space issues. I got into the guild and got the Trade Quests and proceeded to thin my stock of things I will never use. I had asked those on the crafting channels if anyone had need of most of my extra items and they said no, so what to do with them other than destroying? TSQuests.... this helped me in 2 ways... cleared my inventory and I got a bit of coin to compensate me for all my hard work collecting...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I concur with his suggestion. . stop allowing the items to be bought at the broker but not from pc to pc....This will help the economy and our crafters inventory....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shoga</DIV>

Lancealittle
01-03-2005, 07:12 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Turinel wrote:<BR> <DIV><EM>- Harvesting quests can no longer be completed by purchasing the items from a broker.<BR></EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>Why not ?? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This just seems rediculous. Who cares how the these types of quests are completed. This one move with destroy the game play of many who gather these materials and don't feel like tradeskilling quests AND those who dont feel like gathering items but are more than happy to purchase them from players to complete the quests. Why bother having an economy. Not many will bother gathering now apart from when they need items for actual tradeskilling and the market will flood with items noone particularly wants.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope this does not go live. It makes no sense at all.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Well I have good news and bad news for you.</P> <P>The bad news: You will no longer be able to stand there and complete harvesting quests without going out and harvesting.</P> <P>The good news: You will no longer be able to stand there and complete harvesting quests without going out and harvesting.</P> <P>I'd try to explain why this is good news, but enough people realize why this change needs to be made. Explaining it to people who don't like it would be as fun as talking about religion or politics.</P>

Kwoung
01-03-2005, 11:31 PM
I qualified for tier 3 harvesting (and finally have the skills to do it) on Test yesterday. Took me less than 45 minutes from getting the task to collecting my 48sp and getting another. IMHO that is an incredible amount of silver for the time spent collecting it. Maybe it takes longer on live due to more competition, but even then, it took me days to make half a gold previously, so even if it takes a few hours it is still faster than most other methods and will definately subsidize any crafting I wish to do easilly.

Geig
01-04-2005, 01:32 AM
<DIV>How could it take you days to make half a gold?  Although not exactly quick, it should not take you more than 2 hours to do so on your worse day.</DIV>

Kwoung
01-04-2005, 03:16 AM
<blockquote><hr>Geigco wrote:<DIV>How could it take you days to make half a gold? Although not exactly quick, it should not take you more than 2 hours to do so on your worse day.</DIV><hr></blockquote>2 hours how at level 20?

Syanis
01-04-2005, 08:13 PM
<DIV>I see no issue with this. As a crafter I think this will help alleviate somewhat resource harvestering adventurers. These peeps are a major annoyance to any crafter who wish's to harvest their own stuff. While not all are but on my serevr most non crafter harvesters simply run around to the more wanted nodes leaving the unwanted by most alone.... most also seem to have no respect for a node someone else is working on if it happens to be an ore node. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides this is supposed to be a quest. Wheres the challenge for reward bit when it takes 15 seconds to complete via broker. The wholesaler is paying you to go out and gather.... why should they expect otherwise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Wrapye
01-05-2005, 07:17 PM
Typically I complete Wholesaler quests by actually going out and harvesting, but sell material via the broker to those who don't. I can see the allure of completing the quest by buying from a broker - quick money and status (?). However, you'll never get a rare resource for crafting that way, without paying a lot of coin for it from the broker.