Recording DPS to prove our suckyness

[Forsaken Falc]

<DIV><IMG src="http://www.xlsite.com/forsakenfalcon/record1.JPG"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While My Friend Brigands off killing ^^^ name's soloing I'm stuck to farming crummy crap at the bottom of the shimmering citidel.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All My main skills are at adept 3 or higher & the DPS is still [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]y, Comapred to alot of othere Assassins on My server who don't solo at all and I'v soloed alot so its not like I haven't learnt to play this class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is about adverige of what dps we do atm, I had leg poisens & potions on (i didnt use my dps and haste buff on this fight there for dps was less however i could of just used assassinate and got a hell of alot more but i wanted to show the advirige of what we do)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>every othere assassin out there fell free to record and post dps phaseing here in so we got evidence on what we can and can not do.</DIV>

[RufusAzzStab]

just a suggestion for your cause. but some relevant info you might wanna postlvlattack ratingstrengthagilityweaponswill help establish baseline information that way<div></div>

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>270str (fully buffed)</P> <P>289 agi (fully buffed)</P> <P>1140 Atk rate (fully buffed)</P> <P>lvl 60</P> <P>weps = Main : Silverthorn Sec<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />ristige Imbuen Cobalt Falchion</P> <P> </P> <P>poisen = 367 DD damage 107 every 6 second's + debuff poisen mitt by 871.</P> <P> </P> <P>not the best but better then advirige compared to alot of othere assassin's out there but the dps is lame compared to othere class's. only time I'v manage to out dps a brig is them group of bettles in PP due too we get decient AE's.</P>

[Carna]

Do you out dps Brigs in groups? Or are you talking solo?

[Balmung of the Azure Sky]

<P>i dont think that parse is justifiable. that looks like one ability was used for the entire battle. if so thats not dps. dps is more along the lines of 20-30 seconds and then show your damage per second. one-shotting looks more like accomplishment than skill of class.</P>

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>Carnagh : Grouping wise I out dpsed a Brig but only once. (i dont phase 100% of my play)</P> <P> </P> <P>Azura : This is just an advirige of what we do, note that deadly blade is at master 2 and only did alittle over 2.5k <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (and the suckyer we become)</P>

[Carna]

<P>But this parse provided... what is it?... Is it grouped, solo, what?</P> <P>I know that on occasion brigs can push the dps, but I'm not buying that you're out dpsed by them on a regular basis. I play a Brigand, and Assassins flat out do more dps in groups. A Brigand needs to work to keep up with an Assassins auto-attack.</P> <P>There's something not right at all with the Assassin. Part of what's not right is we're seeing huge differences in how people post about their Assassin's gameplay. Some posting parses showing away and clear Tier 1 raid dps. Other's with claims that they never out dps Brigands. What's going on. The two stories being presented aren't reconcilable. </P> <P>One group of Assassins is "overextending the truth", and I've no way of knowing which. I for one am starting to get suspicious of the whole thing.</P> <P>You've only out dpsed a Brigand once?... I call shenanigans. What you're about now is becomming harmful for other classes.</P> <P>We have parses of Assassins doing 1300 dps on raids.... that's a figure Brigands don't get anywhere near. Not even in the same bracket..... the gap between that (Tier 1) and the Tier 2 is far bigger than the gap between Tier 2 and Tier 3.... and it leaves Wizards out in the cold. I think we should start parsing Assassins rather than taking the "we suck" at face value.</P>

[Skratttt]

^^^ everyone say hi to the 2nd wizard troll

[PIexor]

<DIV>Nah he is a brigand, look at his post history, he seems to like the rogue forums  ;p</DIV>

[Balmung of the Azure Sky]

i would like more info on this. i dont mean to 'bash' you but, i dont think its sufficient enough to prove good dps or not. if you can, please post a longer or more detailed dps chart.  eq2companion  is a great program to do that. it takes your log file and organizes it into graphed data. it records each ability, its dps, fight time mob damage, the works. download it, queue up your log file and post a longer fight. if you cant, at least you will have the program which is amazing in its own rite.

[Dragonsviperz]

Ok, if its a raid dps, then you should destroy brigs in dps, group i think they cab win 60% of the time because of ruse and their attacks are on shorter timers. And if you are talking about soloing, buy some stun poisons, and get some higher mit gear cuz i can solo almost all the ^^^'s in Shimmering Citadel, Clops in PoF, and some named if i get lucky. And for my stats if you think i'm using massvies potions, 282str, 423agi(def stance), 150 somtehin sta with 64% avoidence(helps alot). <DIV>On raids i use adeste's and glox and i can break 1K dps a few times, avg i can do is around 600-800. If you have trouble getting massive aggro, get a troub in your group, make their [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] play the flower song, put the aggro transfer on them cuz hell they will never pull aggro.</DIV>

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>I know it doesn't realy prove much but this was SOLOING!!!! (how many more dam times am i gonna have to say it)</P> <P>all those who dout brig pwn our [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] side way's. get a brig friend and share accounts <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>you'll soon see the big picture and just so you guys know we are not in it.</P> <P> </P> <P>as for raid dps. it can greatly jump but still nothing compared to ranger/brig. unless it's an ranged fight inwhich case we out dps a brig but not an ranger.</P> <P> </P> <P>i dunno maybe majority of our class just realy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]n suck. however i highly dout it.</P>

[Carna]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ^^^ everyone say hi to the 2nd wizard troll <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It is not trolling for somebody playing a Brigand to question the assertion that Brigands outdamage Assassins. <STRONG>Especially</STRONG> when there are parses in this very forum of Assassins hitting 1300dps.</P> <P>I'm sorry that everybody isn't falling unquestioningly into your "we suck" drama..... It would seem Assassins <STRONG>did</STRONG> have unquestioning support from the other scouts that they had issues that needed addressed. That unquestioning support started to carry questions with it around about the time that baseless unbacked assertions started to be made that impact the other scouts.</P> <P>You're dealing with SOE. You start slinging mud around, and what just happened with poisons could end up looking mild.</P> <P>I understand there are people upset with their Assassin. I'm simply asking that you think very carefuly about how you address your concerns.</P> <P>When you present worst case solo parses, and ignore best case raid parses of proof of suckiness you erode your own credibility. There are raid parses of Assassin autoattack that represent best case full out Rogue dps.... what exactly is it the Assassin community wants?</P>

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>to whom all misjudge me (90% of u -,-)</P> <P> </P> <P>Raids we dps well as do othere class's. I raid my faire share but don't forget in order for us too raid at 100% best we must farm SOLOING!!!!!!!</P> <P>in order to gain poisens/potions/arrows/food/drink/resist gear ext.</P> <P>Ranger = might as well buy them a portable moat.</P> <P>brig = iv seen brigs out mittergate most tanks -.- (ill screen shot it if u's dout me)</P> <P>Troub/dirge = iv beent seeing these class's solo crap like braodmother with crapy gear and such and yet they killed names with ease</P> <P>swash = the only othere sucker scout class.</P> <P> </P> <P>anyways i don't know what raids you guys go in but from where i sit brigs/rangers will allways beable to out dps us (unless its a mass group of weaklings u can uses your 2 good AE's on.</P> <P> </P> <P>I undersrand what Carnagh is saying however...........not every one likes/has time/can raid with this class.</P> <P>It's one of the hardist by far to play and get decient [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for. i dont know and im starting to feel i dont care.....im 21 now and been an assassin class since 8....so13 year's of playing learning and understanding this class from many different game angels.....& im saden to say Here " I DO NOT FEEL LIKE AN ASSASSIN" & I'm sure many othere people feel the same.</P> <P>Im just a little disapointed in SOE....it's there gme faire enough...but this is OUR CLASS!</P> <P>when a GM/Dev from SOE whos played this class for over 13 years and plays it here tells me the pro's of beening a shadow here maybe I'll finally [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].....untill then back into nothingless we slip into again........</P>

[Carna]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> brig = iv seen brigs out mittergate most tanks -.- (ill screen shot it if u's dout me) <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So... Brigands out dps Assassins, and outperform tanks..... this only further increases the irony that when I logged off Splitpaw in the early hours of this morning it was leaving behind 1 Brigand on the whole server. It's actually possible to log in on odd occassions and find not a single Brigand logged in the server.</P> <P>But please, carry on with your jealousy distorted view of the Brigand and lets see if we can get it relegated to a complete novelty item.</P> <P>Keeping the 1 Brigand company by the way were 6 Assassins, 8 Swashbucklers and 14 Rangers... pick somebody else to whine about mate, really. In peak hours there's normally twice as many Assassins as Brigands.</P> <P>If I sound sensitive on the subject it's because I am. I've played EQ since the launch of EQ1 and I've seen classes completely trashed in the blink of an eye because of nonsense started up on forums.</P> <P>I really do understand you issue with soloing... and for the record, in the mid game Ranger soloing <STRONG>aint</STRONG> that hot in a broad swathe of situations... but rather than pour vitriol on the other Scout classes (which really does do you more harm than good) why don't you post <STRONG>constructively</STRONG> on how soloing can be made easier for the Assassin?</P> <P>Lastly... I understand that the icon of the Assassin means a lot to you. I understand that the class of Assassin in EQ leaves you disappointed, but do you think perhaps this whole Assassin thing means perhaps a little too much to you? You haven't played the class for 13 years. You've played it for 1. The other Assassin icons were a different thing.... And there's no way for me to write that without it coming off as patronising for which I'm sorry... I <STRONG>really</STRONG> dig the Ranger archetype but forced myself to explore something else in EQ2 because there's just so many Rangers about. I'm 36 years old, and I've favoured Elven Ranger types for more years than you've been on the planet... but if I was to started banging on about EQ2 Ranger balance with some notion of "I've played the Ranger class for over 20 years", you'd have to question whether I had too much invested in the fantasy icon.</P> <P>I confess I have a Ranger alt. I can't help myself. I'm weak..... and at a tangent I far prefered the slight flavour of Druid in the EQ1 Ranger which is missing from the EQ2 Druid. But it's a different game. And it's a different class.</P>

[NerroVI]

I love when people toss out the "I been on this earth  longer then you" hi im 35 irl wow you got a year on me grats. Now while I was watching lvl 55 brigands solo ^^ heroics out at twin tears while I was killing solos i didn't run here yelling nerf brigands, when my brigands in guild talk about how they pwn named and ^^ and etc etc SOLO and I can sometimes solo a green ^^^ 10 levels uner me I don't run here and scream bloody murder. Constructive posts?  have you read anything posted allover this forum or in other forums, the time for constructive posting is at a end, people will start getting more vocal, or in some cases become tired of even trying </wave> and move on to other things <civ 4 rocks and WoW isn't as cartoony as I thought, trial is fun weee> when they feel completely ignored when they have done nothing but supported a company and listened to the "just hang in there" over and over at some point you can only buy the lie so long. I played EQ for 6 years as a druid <i guess this means something> I remember when Necros were gods in EQ, I remember when rangers were nothing but corpses you walked over, well actually that never really changed, but it took about 1 expansion before rangers even got on par and wasnt till about the 3rd expansion that they actually got balanced with others, I am not waiting 3 expansions for that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to happen here, they shoulda learned the lesson the first time. Maybe it is time for assassins to change the strategy and point out the seperation of power between classes and if they won't fix us, maybe they will fix others since it seems the months of pointing out our own shortfalls seems to fall of deaf ears, maybe if we point out how others can go up and do certain things they can pull off pretty interesting victories  and they can then go thru and see if somethings other classes have might be the reason we arent quite where we should be hmmmm. <div></div>

[Drak]

<P>Mmh, playing an assassin and a brigand (both t6).</P> <P>I have fun with both. In my experience in no way a good brigand can outdps a good assassin on single target (raid or heroic doesnt' matter) </P> <P>Didnt test intensively with  multiple mob so dunno about aoe dmg (generally speaking assassin not good imho in aoe department)</P> <P>p.s. Sorry for my bad english.</P>

[Carna]

<blockquote> <hr > Maybe it is time for assassins to change the strategy and point out the seperation of power between classes and if they won't fix us, maybe they will fix others since it seems the months of pointing out our own shortfalls seems to fall of deaf ears, maybe if we point out how others can go up and do certain things they can pull off pretty interesting victories and they can then go thru and see if somethings other classes have might be the reason we arent quite where we should be hmmmm. <hr > </blockquote> <p> Which translates as "maybe we should try getting other classes nerfed". </p> <p> *shrug* ok, lets see the response that goes along with "lets get the other classes nerfed then". </p> <p> There isn't a problem with Assassin dps. The only class that out damages an Assassin in a Ranger, and then not by much. </p> <p> There is a problem with Wizard dps, which doesn't scale with buffing in the way Assassins do. </p> <p> Assassins do have a hard time soloing, but it's the flipside of the way they excel in groups and raids. </p> <p> What is broken are the expectations of large chunks of the Assassin community. What's broken is the fact that it drives many Assassins nuts that Rangers normally do more damage.... </p> <p> You don't do as much damage as Rangers. You do more damage that anybody else.... learn to live with it. And quit talking [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like Brigands out dps Assassins and out tank the tanks, it makes you look like prats. </p> <p> Maybe it's time for the rest of the community to tell Assassins to quit whining constantly.... actually that's unfair. There's a fair chunk of the Assassin community already telling the whiners to shut up and trying to show how Assassin don't suck, and do actually perform better at dps than anybody except Rangers. </p> <p> To sum up... <br > Rangers do more damage... <br > You suck at soloing nameds.... <br > You're the second best dps in the game.... <br > Live with it.<br > </p>

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>Carnagh [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you have no idear what we are tryna say.....I do not want Brigs NERFED ...</P> <P>I want this class I'm playing FIXED!!!!!!!</P> <P>Here is some screen shots of 2 lvl 60er's 1 asssassin 1 brig.....SPOT THE @#%#@$#@! DIFFERENCE</P> <P>(we have roughly same gear adept 3s potions poisens food drink ext)</P> <P> </P> <P><IMG src="http://www.xlsite.com/forsakenfalcon/brigspwn.JPG"></P> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.xlsite.com/forsakenfalcon/brigspwn2.JPG"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.xlsite.com/forsakenfalcon/brigspwn3.JPG"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As You's can see Brigs are sooo uber compared to an Assassin you can duo a brig with any othere class to farm instence's designed for roughly 4ppl.........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(sorry for the outburst uptop but this dude Carnagh has no [Removed for Content] idear [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] he/she is on about)</DIV>

[Poochymama]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Forsaken Falcon wrote:<BR> <P>Carnagh [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you have no idear what we are tryna say.....I do not want Brigs NERFED ...</P> <P>I want this class I'm playing FIXED!!!!!!!</P> <P>Here is some screen shots of 2 lvl 60er's 1 asssassin 1 brig.....SPOT THE @#%#@$#@! DIFFERENCE</P> <P>(we have roughly same gear adept 3s potions poisens food drink ext)</P> <P> </P> <P><IMG src="http://www.xlsite.com/forsakenfalcon/brigspwn.JPG"></P> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.xlsite.com/forsakenfalcon/brigspwn2.JPG"></DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://www.xlsite.com/forsakenfalcon/brigspwn3.JPG"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As You's can see Brigs are sooo uber compared to an Assassin you can duo a brig with any othere class to farm instence's designed for roughly 4ppl.........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(sorry for the outburst uptop but this dude Carnagh has no [Removed for Content] idear [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] he/she is on about)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>These ss are so screwy its not even funny. First of all the brigand is buffed to tank and you arent (dont lie this is the same as my berserkers armor with t6 fabled HEAVY ARMOR)</DIV>

[Skratttt]

<P>Actually poochie he is buffed with defensive stance...only reason his agi is so high......hmmmm not bad gear im at 291str  293 (master 1 wicked villany)  agi  in offensive stance (no added agi like on defense) respectively (no potions..only food, rings...im thinking on loading up now on int/wis gear cause i hit cap of str 90% of the time in raids or groups)......</P> <P>But i have to note Brigs have higher mitig and hp and that was suposed to be cause they are 3rd tier emergency xp group tanks...we are suposed to get slightly larger power pools...</P> <P>Dont compare with brigs... compare to rangers and see.....i dont think our power pool is different than theirs....yes str on the offensive buff would be nice ...</P> <P> </P>

[verydanger]

With our T6 selfbuff and defensive stance at adept 3 brigands can selfbuff 870 AC, and with that we can reach the mitigation of heavy armor wearers. The idea behind this is I guess, brigands are suppose to be 'backup tanks', like bruisers can be 'backup DPS', and furys 'backup nukers'. You want assasins to be able to fulfill the role as backup tank too? Fine, then give up the permanent 50% DPS boost on your selfbuff for a AC boost, give up one of your damage spell lines for a taunt line, and another damage line for a deaggro/intervene you can place on a group member. A line of groupsnare, maybe that tickles your fancy too? Swap your bigger powerpool for more hitpoints? I can only guess you chose assasin to do good damage, might wanna focus your ranting on that then eeh?<div></div>

[Skratttt]

<P>^^^ the brig is correct on this one...and thats my point...we get higher auto atack dps (which unfortunately in solo does verry lil diff since u gota spam CA's to survive <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )...they get higher mtitg ...</P>

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>uuummmm to the main point.....brigs still out dps assassins (unless we are in the perfect raid group or have assassinate up)</P> <P>this Duo of our's has goten us fairly far, when I'v got deadly blade and assassunate up then we can juggle agro to make things easyer eithen though i die in like 3-4 hit's.</P> <P>out side of raid's or the perfect group......assassins have absolutely nothing compared to most class's.</P> <P>this brig I duo with doesn't need to worry about position/stealth inorder to preform He's skills there for is allways out damageing Me unless its a group of 4+ then the AEs let Me out dps Him.</P> <P>Our two main buff's hate & dps are too short for them to be majorly affictive only time's I use them are when [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hit's the fan & we need them dead asap (in which case agro managedment isn't neccesry)</P> <P> </P> <P>anyways unless You have played both class's You realy don't understand. (eithen though it's agesnt SOE rule's) My friend & I have tryed out each othere chareter's befor too see the difference.</P>

[Skratttt]

<P>Not saying our non positional/stealthed dps does not suck majour [Removed for Content]...it does no way arround it...thats why its #1 on my list of priorities to be changed.....our 3 nonstealthed non positional need a change in how they deliver their dmg....and our debuff/viper line needs to be non positional (lockjaw anyone??)</P> <P>But my point was....for stats...i only envy their STR buff i wish we and rangers also had.....i dont want the mitigation ..i want dmg</P> <P>BTW we are the only class that its dps can be crippled by not allowing it to get into stealth or not be in right position ...or both! <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .....thats #1 reason vs solo mobs we suck badly! ...and in group encouters in groups where mobs decide to hit a small ae every now an then right when u got into stealth</P> <P>In an ideal world Concealment would give us "stealth status" to use our CA"s without the stealth itself.(and the lag time of its casting)......ahhh being able to use our CA's without having to worry a tiny ae or dot from a mob is gona basically kill our dps chance</P>

[pczry]

<DIV>Didn't read much of the thread, but In my opinion, Fel Shot, and Spitting Asp recasting time needs to be reduce and take out the positional on it.  I noticed my dps drop a lot when fighting against mobs with AOE.  I usually end up finding myself dodging AOE and not not have any range attack ready for use while rangers just in the back dishing out constant dps.  With Fel Shot, and Spitting Asp doing current damage of 1.5k-2k; with recasting time reduced, we might be able to keep up the constant dps.</DIV>

[Drak]

<DIV>Sorry but i disagree. Brigand/swashie dont outdps (talking for t6) an assassin  with single target (even if assassinate is not up).</DIV> <DIV>Assassin is weak in aoe department.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now with new change in lu18 I love assassin more (nice timer reduction and agonizing pain proc is nice)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Btw I love play my assassin as i love playing my brigand (they are so different....)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.s. Sorry for my english, not first language..</DIV>

[NerroVI]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<blockquote> <hr> Maybe it is time for assassins to change the strategy and point out the seperation of power between classes and if they won't fix us, maybe they will fix others since it seems the months of pointing out our own shortfalls seems to fall of deaf ears, maybe if we point out how others can go up and do certain things they can pull off pretty interesting victories and they can then go thru and see if somethings other classes have might be the reason we arent quite where we should be hmmmm. <hr> </blockquote> <p> Which translates as "maybe we should try getting other classes nerfed". </p> <p> *shrug* ok, lets see the response that goes along with "lets get the other classes nerfed then". </p> <p> There isn't a problem with Assassin dps. The only class that out damages an Assassin in a Ranger, and then not by much. </p> <p> There is a problem with Wizard dps, which doesn't scale with buffing in the way Assassins do. </p> <p> Assassins do have a hard time soloing, but it's the flipside of the way they excel in groups and raids. </p> <p> What is broken are the expectations of large chunks of the Assassin community. What's broken is the fact that it drives many Assassins nuts that Rangers normally do more damage.... </p> <p> You don't do as much damage as Rangers. You do more damage that anybody else.... learn to live with it. And quit talking [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] like Brigands out dps Assassins and out tank the tanks, it makes you look like prats. </p> <p> Maybe it's time for the rest of the community to tell Assassins to quit whining constantly.... actually that's unfair. There's a fair chunk of the Assassin community already telling the whiners to shut up and trying to show how Assassin don't suck, and do actually perform better at dps than anybody except Rangers. </p> <p> To sum up... Rangers do more damage... You suck at soloing nameds.... You're the second best dps in the game.... Live with it. </p><hr></blockquote>No it translates to the simple fact that we are #6-#7<edit hit 4accidentally> in dps behind tier 2 DPSers and we are still getting nerfed about every other LU so instead of saying we want things fixed that help us the only thing I see SoE doing is nerfing us.  I wouldn't worry your beloved rangers will always have a place in SoE <3, they already screwed your class up so bad once in the first go around they knew better then to mess it up here, in fact i would say most "good race" classes are pretty solid save a few. Btw no one is whining when they are stating facts, if you can't accept that for months we have posted and shown that certain tier 2 classes are above us in DPS consistantly, and that in only "perfect group settings" do assassins end up in the top DPS on raids I am not even going to waste typing and pointing out post after post, it isn't about walking up to a blue no arrow solo mob and who can do the most DPS that is just beyond silly, it is about sustained, consistent ability to perform DPS and we are around #7 still imho. As far as I go, I pay my monthly fee and I will say what I gdamn wana say about the class I play, and have played since day 1 it went live, we are far better then where we were back then I know that, but I also remember wizards sucked [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] pre LU13 they were a bunch of as you say "whiners" and warloks were not saying a MFing word about NOTHING cos they were over powered vs solo mobs, wow how times change, and yet you still see wizards whining as you say it, because they get a resist and have to wait 5 secs more to recast another 5000 damage DD spell, where as we miss or have a asssassinate blocked or resisted we have to wait 15 gdamn minutes lol. Thing is there is alot about the assassin class that I personally playing it just do not get why we even have. 1 Root, why don't need it that is useless, what is a assassin doing with a finger waggler type spell?  OHHHHH wait I know it isnt exactly supposed to be a root spell now is it, lets look at the name of the spell line a little more, sounds like it is supposed to be paralyzing as in a STUN maybe, but ahh lets make it a root and not actually paralyze the mob. 2 snare line, 1 word, WHY.  Take it out why put something USEFULL in there I don't need snare for what 1 ranged atack CA, take the snare part off of deadfall and id actually use the spell on raids more when im outside the MT group without fear of [Removed for Content] the mob off to bad? 3 Chain Mail, assassin, stealth, ching ching   ching ching, noise hello not very realistic for a person in dangling chains of metal to be sneaking around in, leather studded maybe or plain leather yeah, once again not sure who's brainchild this was but I could see brigands and swashies maybe even the bards but rangers and assassins in chain, or wait rangers wear chain right <serious I can't remember assuming we wear same armor> There is such a list I can go down that they could simply switch things out and make the assassin class shine but it looks like we are going to be the druid of EQ a jack of all trades and master of none with 1 good attack =O if it doesnt get blocked lol</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by NerroVI on <span class=date_text>12-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:50 PM</span>

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>I agree with Von Blitz 100% (Espically about the chainmail }<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</P> <P>Some one stated befor Brig's were demi tanks just like bruiser/monk's are demi dps......</P> <P> </P> <P>then why can brig's invis + group invis? did they traine in group espionage some where at mountain highway robbery camp?</P> <P>then why do Monk's/Bruiser's get too HEAL!!!!!!!! fighting monk's are eastern monk's........the healer monk's were the crappy hood wearing church chanting westerner's.</P> <P>so befor another person tells Me I'm too caught up in the meaning of this class....research You'r own....</P>

[Kokus]

<DIV>Probably not relevant, because I didn't read every post here, but the original poster was comparing a brigand to an assassin by themselves.  It's my personal belief that the brigand can deal more damage by themselves than an assassin can because of the insane amount of mitigation they debuff.  Also, if I was a group looking for a dps class, and I had the choice between a brigand or an assassin, I'd also pick the brigand because they will not only deal more damage than the assassin, but will help the rest of the group greatly as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a raid situation, or grouped with a brigand are the only times where the assassin can outdamage a brigand consistently.  (unless your guild does ins/outs or just ranges the mobs with AEs, then the brigand may still beat you.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So their utility makes them a more desirable dps class overall in my opinion.</DIV>

[NerroVI]

Well and that would be the biggest issue, almost every major raid mob has a AE, and while I came from EQ and am used to the old "ae inc" thing and dodging AE's, in EQ2 the AE's even with resists are insane to a point, and if you do happen to get smacked by the AE you are then standing around waiting for a heal and then you are forced to sit and do ranged, so then you have certain classes <which is fine by me this is not what I am complaining about at all> that are able to either 1 stay in and avoid the AE, 2 are naturally ranged to begin with ie casters and rangers. I have a box 28 slot I carry around with me full of resist gear just for certain raids just to try and bump my resists up for each different raid encounter, and while sometimes I get lucky and make a decent resist check for alot of them it means 2 things jack and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]e, so then I have to do the dunk and dink or as some call it joust, I can't imagine that people who make this game sat back and said "oh you know what would be cool for assassins, will make them stand in back of raid mobs, and then blast the living hell outta them with AE's while their counterparts can avoid the AE's by ability or at range, and they will have to run in stealth backstab and then run away on top of that we will only allow there threat transfer to be in group, so what will really be funny as hell is when they assassinate the mob and take aggro and run off and take aggro from the MT and then the mob is loose lololcopter omg that will be so cool do it!" "ohh but what will be really funny is when they spend the time to go stealth and they are just about to land the backstab they get hit by a AE and get unstealthed and now they have done no damage and are 3/4 dead and have to run back out wait for another heal, then try and do it allover again thus dropping the DPS even more, thats a wicked idea" Like I said we have to almost be in ideal groups for everything, and while some folks might have the ideal make up I guess not all of us are as fortunate, alot of times I do get put in the MT group and can do the joust thing, but I still do not see why my DPS overall is dependant upon rather I have classes that can str buff me, and debuff mit, when the other 3 tier 1 classes are not put in the same situations that this class has to endure.  My main and still overall gripe is that wizards are defined as to what they are, warloks are defined as to what they are, rangers are defined, and yet assassins seem to just be the outcast of the 4, and the nerf to poison DID drop my DPS I don't even need to run a parse or ask my friend to I could tell by the time it is taking to drop mobs I was prior to last LU <thanks we wont nerf PvE to balance PvP>. As I said before I am going to give it about the same time it took for them to get rangers on track in EQ, here.  I will continue to post MY observations and continue to push to have this class defined and put on par with the 3 other tier 1 classes and point out what I observe while raiding and grouping, and if it effects other classes so be it, we started out simply asking to be put on board and all we keep seeing is added positional restrictions, loss of DPS, changes to things we once had already and then told look a improvement!  Look we lowered your timer congrats !! ohh btw we also lowered the damage on it...but congrats anyway! a improvement with a nerf is not a improvement. Also to the assassins out there who are like "I dont care I love my assassin and he is fine by me and I dont really raid I just play to have fun" thats great all the power to you and I have no hard feelings about that at all, and if you love it fine thats great, but to raid assassins who are put in a group with a debuffer and a strength buffer stop saying "ohh were just fine" no we arent just fine, you would be doing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you were not in that perfect make up, and your counterparts arent having to be put in ideal groups to put out their damage, as long as anyone, hi a poison user maybe that uses a CR debuff, drops that on a mob then a wizard can land his stuff same goes for a warlok, I often use deadfall because we are necro SK heavy so I always try and use stuff that benifits their casting and I never hear them talk about ohh I got resists, because I keep the debuffs on, they arent restricted to be in my group to get the benifits from it. Anyway hope you all had a great holiday, it is back to working on peacock club quests <convulses> and maybe a vist to the old scaly handbag this week! <div></div>

[kopingOwen]

for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sake STOP go down on the brigands! if it was not for the brigans our dps would suck even more damiit!!!!!!!!/endour dps do not suck and we are teir 1..on raids/grp i out dps everyone except rangers sometime i get out dpsed by warlocks and sometimes summoner classes but i´ve yet too see a wizard out dps me..in sertan heavy aoe fights i´ve seen brigs out dps me but mostly i´m up there in the top 10 on raidsmy dps on raids ranges from 300 dps up to 1000dps+ all depending on encounter (mind you that i´m not in some uber grp, only class in the grp i´m usually in that can buff me is a berserker else its me another assassin and 3 rangers lol)the average top ten on raid dps is: ranger ranger ranger summoner assassin summoner assassin warlock wizard swashysure i have a few conserns about out class... we still have issues but most other classes do too ya know..the one thing i hate is our skill CONSEALMENT bloody hell its [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard to use efficently cuz its not working as intended (2sec lag anyone??) if we had use of the full 5 sec it would be great but i rather have 10 sec hehehethe devs have done a good job fixing teh mark line it works wonders now compared to what it was post lu 13 (even tho i wish i had my old assassins mark master 1 pre lu 13, just had to hit it and out dps any class in the game lol)just face it we have had our glory days time for us to beat the dust like the rangers have done for the past 8th months... honestly i think they deserve alittle glory and fame (in time they get nerfed i can bet my last penny on that)so pleas fellow assassin can we stop the class wiinening and look for the future in the upcoming expansion with all the funny stuff it will bring (don´t jinx it by saying you know what!)so can we PLEASE consentrate on OUR class and its issues not how other classess are better on this and that, the devs have a pretty good idea were they want us and i don´t think they are idiots they are doing the best they can (if someone argue this then i suggest you take the walk to them show me what you can bring to fix things, I sure as hell know absolutly [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about programming so don´t look at me)

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Forsaken Falcon wrote:<p>uuummmm to the main point.....brigs still out dps assassins (unless we are in the perfect raid group or have assassinate up)</p><div></div><hr></blockquote>Only time i ever get out-dps'd by a brig is if it's a 3+ minute fight with multiple AEs, and i get very little time to use melee combat arts.  I wonder how many raids you've been on :smileyhappy:

[Aienaa]

<div><hr></div><div><font color="#ffff00">Only time i ever get out-dps'd by a brig is if it's a 3+ minute fight with multiple AEs, and i get very little time to use melee combat arts.  I wonder how many raids you've been on</font><img border="0" height="16" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width="16"></div><div><hr></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Up until tonight, we did not have a raiding Brigand in our guild, so my only competition was the 2 Rangers we had and the 3 of us were always on the top of the DPS list....  Fights with alot of AEs my DPS would drop some, but I was always near the top of the list for DPS....   Only encounters with alot of mobs where casters do thier AoE attacks, did I have to worry about being out-DPS'd by a caster...</div><div> </div><div>Even though tonight was my first time raiding with a Brigand, I'd have to say I'm not very worried about being out DPS'd by him...  Granted we were only doing SC for eyes, but I was out DPSing him by 400+</div><div> </div><div>We did the ring event with the Tample Defenders twice before I had to log for work, once without the Brigand and once with....  Before the Brigand got there, I was doing between 700-1000 DPS (was in a good DPS group, capped Str and 340 Int for added poison damage)....  After the Brigand showed up, my DPS went to 900-1200 , while the Brigand was doing around 500 DPS....  Aside from our Ranger who was there, my next competiton for Melee Class DPS came from our Bruiser who was doing 600-700 DPS.....</div><div> </div><div>Group make up is definatly the key to increasing DPS....  When I get into a group where I can cap my Str and then swap out gear to boost my Int (also Fury Int buff works wonders) I can get my DPS way up there....   But there are times where my group is far less than optimal and I'm struggling to just get Str to cap and my DPS suffers tremendously ( usually in the 500-750 DPS range)....</div><div> </div><div>The only things I would really like to see changed is the following....</div><div> </div><div>Concealment to place you in stealth and keep you there till the timer runs out... I have had it not even place me in stealth at all before (bruiser type mobs are bad for this as they seem to block / parry quite often and you don't go stelth till you actually land an attack)</div><div> </div><div>Cripple Strike to be made Flanking...  It's rather annoying to be behind the mob, yet still get the message saying you must be behind the mob....  The actually arc related to "behind the mob" when in close melee range is way too small....</div><div> </div><div>Spitting Asp to be made Flanking also....  This is not nearly as important as Cripple Stike, but I generally use this and Fel Shot to pull with while soloing and sometimes you just can't get behind the mob in order to pull with it so I have to wait on my timer for Fel Shot....  In group / raid situation, I sometimes get the "you must be behind" message, but not nearly as much as with Cripple Strike...</div><div> </div><div>That's my 2 coppers worth anyways....</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</div>

[pczry]

<div></div>i think my parser is broken <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/nbtekim/dps1.jpg" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/nbtekim/dps1.jpg</a><a href="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/nbtekim/dps2.jpg" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/nbtekim/dps2.jpg</a><div></div><p>Message Edited by pczryan on <span class="date_text">01-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:13 AM</span></p>

[Alli]

<div></div><div>wow....</div><div> </div><div>I have seen alot of posts stating that assassins are broke blah blah....</div><div>Last night I had the pleasure of viewing parses of a guild on another server, top parse on almost every fight was the ranger, assassin team.....and on AE encounters the Conj was up there too.</div><div> </div><div>I recommend you trash Combatstats.....get Advanced Combat Tracker.....its a mix of EQ2Companion and Statalyzer......will show you definitive information.</div><div> </div>

[kopingOwen]

ACT FOR THE WIN!!!sweet as the punch! com'on people we don´t suck =)wanna tell ya something...yesterday we raided SC and we were fooling around as usual (gotta love those sentinels lolol) collecting eyes..Our best wizard wanted to show off and show us that he also could top the parsers =P=P=Ppoor wizard as soon as he started to get up around 600+ dps he went MOAHAHAHA! the mob he was nuking turned around, gave the wizard an raised eyebrow and SMACK!! dead wizard... Me and the rangers just stood over his corpse Laughing our sorry butts off!! anyone got a parser on a wizard that actually survies past 650 dps?? poor things don´t have any aggro control =)so you see we are not so bad of with our RAID dps... even tho wizards, warlocks, rangers, necros, conjurors, bruisers, monks, swashbucklers SOLO alot better then us but hell i´m 60 i don´t give a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about solo, i just wanna raid =P=P=P

[Forsaken Falc]

<div>so you see we are not so bad of with our RAID dps... even tho wizards, warlocks, rangers, necros, conjurors, bruisers, monks, swashbucklers SOLO alot better then us but hell i´m 60 i don´t give a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about solo, i just wanna raid =P=P=P</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>So are You saying We Assassin's are only some gimped [Removed for Content] reserve for raid's?</div><div>I farm-Quest -Grind more then I do raid & I think most People would be the same. I guess if all I did was log on for raid's and skipped the rest I wouldnt care about the soloing ability's but fact is KOS is out soon & were gonning too need back up.</div>

[judged_one]

<div></div>DragonsviperzThanks for confirming what I have been parsing.There seems to be some super assassins out there claiming that they can do 1.3k, 2k on raid.But when you look at their parse you quickly realize that they are parseing like 19s 21s fights.And they never seems to want to show a comparative parse on the same fight of other DPS.I am so [Removed for Content] tired of these elite SOB... Yeah I can hit 2 k too if I wait on the fight till the mob is half dead and drop all my big CA.Well looks like SOE is done fixing us now, and while there are still a lis of stuff not addressed.Next time a ranger parse 2-300 over our sorry [Removed for Content] we know why it is that wayNext time a brigand, swashy parse 50-100 below you, and are asked to raid before you, you will know why.As for me, my little fury is now lvl 50 : )

[judged_one]

<div></div>our dps do not suck and we are teir 1..on raids/grp<b> i out dps everyone except rangers sometime</b> i get out dpsed by warlocks and sometimes summoner classes but i´ve yet too see a wizard out dps me..the average top ten on raid dps is: ranger ranger ranger <b>summoner</b> <b>assassin</b> summoner assassin warlock wizard swashyEnough said.

[pczry]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:<div></div>There seems to be some super assassins out there claiming that they can do 1.3k, 2k on raid.But when you look at their parse you quickly realize that they are parseing like 19s 21s fights.And they never seems to want to show a comparative parse on the same fight of other DPS.I am so [Removed for Content] tired of these elite SOB... Yeah I can hit 2 k too if I wait on the fight till the mob is half dead and drop all my big CA.<hr></blockquote><p>i posted 2 link above the thread earlier, duration of the fight was more 19s-21s.  I spammed all my CA the whole fight, not just the last few seconds.</p><p>From the parse</p><p>You = Me</p><p>Drrake = Ranger</p><p>Fermi = Bruiser</p><p>Tresnick, Jerob = Brigand</p>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Next time a brigand, swashy parse 50-100 below you, and are asked to raid before you, you will know why.<hr></blockquote><p>And it is <em>possible</em> for a Bruiser to parse <em>more</em> than a Brigand. It does happen, it is simply not the norm.</p><p>If Rogues can deal with the fact that a better outfitted Tier 3 can straight out dps them you can deal with the fact that a better equipped Rogues can begin to come close to your dps. The notion that Rogues are a threat to your dps is bollocks. The Rogue can't dream of getting anywhere even close to an Assassins top line dps figure... <em>not even close</em>. Top line for an Assassin is about 65% more than a Rogue as it currently stands. And that's being conservative. One might argue it's more like 75%..... how big a gap do you think it should be? I've not seen any parses of a Brigand leaving the 700s as their very top mark. So if we err on the side of caution and call that a notional 800 dps as the notional cap we're comparing 800 dps to 1300 dps.... You've no room to be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about Rogue dps at all. You will often see parses of Assassins pulling double the dps of the Rogues consistently. It is not at all uncommon to see parses of Rogues pulling 500 dps in the same fight an Assassin is pulling 1k</p><p>You do not get outdamaged by Rogues at all. Rogues do on rare occasion get outdamaged by Brawlers but not enough to make any [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about it anything other that childish.... in short no, you can't have laser beams for eyes.</p>

[Poochymama]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Next time a brigand, swashy parse 50-100 below you, and are asked to raid before you, you will know why.<hr></blockquote><p>And it is <em>possible</em> for a Bruiser to parse <em>more</em> than a Brigand. It does happen, it is simply not the norm.</p><p>If Rogues can deal with the fact that a better outfitted Tier 3 can straight out dps them you can deal with the fact that a better equipped Rogues can begin to come close to your dps. The notion that Rogues are a threat to your dps is bollocks. The Rogue can't dream of getting anywhere even close to an Assassins top line dps figure... <em>not even close</em>. Top line for an Assassin is about 65% more than a Rogue as it currently stands. And that's being conservative. One might argue it's more like 75%..... how big a gap do you think it should be? I've not seen any parses of a Brigand leaving the 700s as their very top mark. So if we err on the side of caution and call that a notional 800 dps as the notional cap we're comparing 800 dps to 1300 dps.... You've no room to be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about Rogue dps at all. You will often see parses of Assassins pulling double the dps of the Rogues consistently. It is not at all uncommon to see parses of Rogues pulling 500 dps in the same fight an Assassin is pulling 1k</p><p>You do not get outdamaged by Rogues at all. Rogues do on rare occasion get outdamaged by Brawlers but not enough to make any [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about it anything other that childish.... in short no, you can't have laser beams for eyes.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Hehe yeah brigans never really seem to break past the 800's.</p><p>There pretty much the same as our wizards. Never seen our wizards break out of the 800's either which is sad since they are t1 slightly above assasins.</p>

[Poochymama]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>judged_one wrote:<div></div>DragonsviperzThanks for confirming what I have been parsing.There seems to be some super assassins out there claiming that they can do 1.3k, 2k on raid.But when you look at their parse you quickly realize that they are parseing like 19s 21s fights.And they never seems to want to show a comparative parse on the same fight of other DPS.I am so [Removed for Content] tired of these elite SOB... Yeah I can hit 2 k too if I wait on the fight till the mob is half dead and drop all my big CA.Well looks like SOE is done fixing us now, and while there are still a lis of stuff not addressed.Next time a ranger parse 2-300 over our sorry [Removed for Content] we know why it is that wayNext time a brigand, swashy parse 50-100 below you, and are asked to raid before you, you will know why.As for me, my little fury is now lvl 50 : )<hr></blockquote><p>LOL did you even look at the fight duration or did you just make up that 19-21s fight crap?</p><p>The first fight was atleast 1 minute 2 seconds and probobly longer. ( You would have known this if you had actually looked at that section called "Duration&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The second fight was around 1 minute and 30 seconds so no where near 19-21 seconds.</p>

[Aienaa]

<div></div><p></p><hr>get Advanced Combat Tracker.....its a mix of EQ2Companion and Statalyzer<p></p><hr><p> </p><p>Got a link for this?  I'd like to check it out...</p><p> </p><p>Gwern - 60 Assassin -Kithicor</p>

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div><a target="_blank" href="http://home.maine.rr.com/eqaditu/ACT/">http://home.maine.rr.com/eqaditu/ACT/</a> 

[Forsaken Falc]

<div></div><p>My Issue is still on soloing ability.</p><p> </p><p>EG, PoF My Brigand Friend has enough DPS Mitt & HP MP He can continuleously solo certian creature's non stop and make 2 plat in 30mins if the drop rate's going good ><</p><p>My Assassin on the othere hand.........50g-1p ever 2hour's at shimmering citidel /yawn.</p><p> </p><p>Call Me an Lier if You's must but I'v played both a 60 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] & Brig @ lvl 60 with sweet gear and mostly adept 3s & the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en difference is notticeable.</p>

[pczry]

<div></div>thanks Mysta

[Galn]

<div>I'd like to see those screenshot comparisons done with both characters using offensive stance. Somewhat related I can get my Swashbuckler to get very close to the same defense as my Monk "IF" I put the Monk in Offensive Stance and the Swash in Defensive Stance. Put the Monk in Defensive and the Swash in Offensive and they are not even close. Does that make one a better soloer than the other? No, I love how both classes solo very well, in different ways.</div><div> </div><div>I'm not familiar with either classes ability to solo heroics at level 60, but at level 22 the Brigand and Swash I have were able to solo white ^ mobs and the Assassin I have was killed the 3 times I tried with the mob only having 1-2 pixels of health showing on their health bar. It is just the nature of the classes. Rogues are more frontal fighters than the Assassin so they need more defense, and in long drawn out battles that difference shows. Against yellow even-con mobs the Assassin killed them a lot faster than the Rogues could, especially if the Assassin had his huge back attacks ready.</div><div> </div><div>Also keep in mind the different types of DPS each class is designed to do, the reason my Assassin could not solo the white con ^ solo mob is they spent their entire arsenal and the mob still had half it's health left and with the long recast timers on the big attacks along with the fact that most of the Assassins attacks are stealth based (which is hard to reattain against anything with an up-arrow) makes killing mobs with that many hits a lot harder to do for that class. The Brigand and Swashbucker against the same mob, with very similar equipment, both were able to sustain a higher DPS for longer than the Assassin could, and with more of their attack arts being <em>non-positional/stealth required</em> they were able to defeat the mob in question. Against plain-jane yellow con mobs the Assassin had them pushing up daisies a lot faster than my Rogues could, because the first 4 CA's I hit did enough total damage to kill the mob. The lower damage CA's the rogue types have are not able to kill the mobs as fast. The things I'd give if my Swashy or Monk could have an attack that did 1400 dmg at level 24..... :smileysurprised:</div><div> </div><div>I have 10 characters of various classes and I read most of the class boards on here. I dont really give a flying rat's hind-quarters which one of my characters does more DPS, as long as with the tools they are given I can defeat the foes appropriate to my level. My Swashbuckler does 50 dps more than my Monk and 30 more than my Warlock, but all three solo about the same, but do it in totally different ways.</div><div> </div><div>I believe the only way SOE will get everyone from crying about other classes doing more damage would be to equalize every class on dps and defense, but that would require a total redo of the combat system again.</div>

[liveja]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Forsaken Falcon wrote:<p>swash = the only othere sucker scout class.</p><hr></blockquote><p>You don't know what you're talking about. We Swashies kick some serious %$#.</p>

[liveja]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Forsaken Falcon wrote:<div></div><p>My Issue is still on soloing ability.</p><hr></blockquote><p>OK, now I'm confused. Here, you say your "issue is still on soloing ability", but a few posts before that you said this:</p><p>"but hell i´m 60 i don´t give a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about solo, i just wanna raid"</p><p>So, which is it?</p>

[Forsaken Falc]

<div></div><p>LiveJazz  "</p><p>"but hell i´m 60 i don´t give a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about solo, i just wanna raid"</p><p> </p><p>Was Wrighten by a Ratonga [Removed for Content] I'm an WoodElf get Your fact stright!</p>

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div>Quote button FTW

[Sierrus]

<div>Brigands only pwn the dps of the assassins who quite frankly dont know what thier doing =p    raids are Rangers  with assassins hot on thier tails, even beating them on occasion  followed by the conjurer warlock types,  than swashy/brigs     i fail to see the *omg assassins need to be fixed* complaint......    i'm perfectly happy in my role as a brigand doing avg  mid 600's  and debuffing  while the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s and rangers are over / at the 1k mark,   brigands are a dps / utility class     [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s and rangers are tier 1 crazy dps~   it's pretty obvious that brigs being a utility class would be able to use those utliities to solo like a champ~.</div><div> </div><div>Sierrus 60 Brigand</div><div>TDS</div>

[Alli]

<div>/agree Sierrus  Any parses I see have assassins RIGHT behind the ranger most of the time......depending on encounter it might be a Conj or warlock on top, but Ranger/Assassin are always on or right near the top.</div><div> </div><div>My thoughts are....if you think your class is broken.....maybe reroll a new class, or learn.</div><div> </div><div>Just a thought, if it works for other people.....then maybe it isnt the class that is the issue.</div>

[dr4gonUK]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Forsaken Falcon wrote:<div></div><p>Call Me an Lier if You's must but I'v played both a 60 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] & Brig @ lvl 60 with sweet gear and mostly adept 3s & the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]en difference is notticeable.</p><p></p><hr><p>So delete your assassin and play a brigand. What exactly do you hope to achieve by posting inaccurate parse ?</p></blockquote>

[Forsaken Falc]

<div></div><p>FFS guy's can You's READ?!!!!</p><p> </p><p>I'm not saying Assassin's Suck @ Raid's However MY arguement is How much % of the game Do we Just Raid???? No Questing, Farming, Crafting Ext.</p><p> </p><p>Soloing Wise Brig's out DPS the liveing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of an Assassin.</p><p> </p><p>As for the Smart [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] who told Me I can't Play My class.....Heh W/E I'd dout I'd be in one of the top 5 guild's on the Najena server If I couldn't deliver what was needed.....</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Im Tierd of this arguement You guys belive w/e You's wanna belive idaff anymore.</p><p>(wounder who's fault it is Sin's sux the player base or dev's?)</p>

[AratornCalahn]

WOW, people in raids doing less damge than brigands SUCK. I mean COMON... get some freaking SKILL.If your not doing as much damge, or just a bit more - you doing something SERIOUSLY wrong... Id recommend rolling a ranger... or a wizard, a ninja wizard...anyway, brigands suck! complaining about assassin DPS and menitoning Brigand in the same post? isnt that agisnt SOE rules or seomthing? You gonna get banned dued. I think the real issuse here is that you want to impress your girlfriend by outdoing the warlock on AE fights.... now comon, lets face it - that just inst going to happen. I know, I know... but she probably likes you for who you are - not your DPS parse.Now thats all that sorted, why not start a topic about dirges do less DPS than wizards or soemthing./deception<div></div>

[AratornCalahn]

<div></div>Oh and increase assasin solo DPS, I really think this is needed. Since rangers and wizards can totaly pwn them.(Templars pwn brigand solo DPS, ewww)<div></div><p>Message Edited by AratornCalahn on <span class="date_text">01-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:46 PM</span></p>

[Beldin_]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:Now thats all that sorted, why not start a topic about dirges do less DPS than wizards or soemthing.<hr></blockquote>Hey .. i could easily parse 200-300 Dps on my Dirge the last time i had a functional parser for the german Version .. however ..  ask a Templer oder Guardian .. they think that Dirges are DPS Classes :smileyvery-happy:

[AratornCalahn]

<span><blockquote><hr>Beldin_ wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:Now thats all that sorted, why not start a topic about dirges do less DPS than wizards or soemthing.<hr></blockquote>Hey .. i could easily parse 200-300 Dps on my Dirge the last time i had a functional parser for the german Version .. however ..  ask a Templer oder Guardian .. they think that Dirges are DPS Classes :smileyvery-happy:<hr></blockquote>They are <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Sticka  dirge in MT group and I notice I can basicaly spam and not get aggro, whole raid does way more DPS when dirge is there, so yes the dirge is a DPS class <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Damari]

<div></div>Brigands can heal.

[DaLurk]

Damari, come back immediatly !I told you it's bad for everyone when you leave home^h^h^h^hbrigs forum.And please, stop spreading the word about our heals and uber pets.<div></div>

[Damari]

<div></div>Sorry (walks off sulking)....

[AratornCalahn]

I wish I was a Ninja Brigand... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Unlike all these Ninja Assassins<div></div>

[Damari]

<div></div>Always wanted to be a ninja pigeon myself, just need to work on my aim.

[Eris]

<div></div>Are brigands invading the Assassin forum now? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] remember we suck guy, we cant hang out with the cool guys that get all the chicks... Now both of you head back to the reeducation center!

[Damari]

<div></div>Noooooo........................................... ..........

[pczry]

<div></div><div>oh man, these brigand still in here? jk lol</div>