What Is An Assassin? (Devs realy need to read this)

[Forsaken Falc]

<DIV>AssassinAt first glance, one would be hard-pressed to find a link between pleasure and the acts of assassins. Such was not the case, however, with those who gave us the word assassin. They were members of a secret Islamic order originating in the 11th century who believed it was a religious duty to harass and murder their enemies. The most important members of the order were those who actually did the killing. Having been promised paradise in return for dying in action, the killers, it is said, were made to yearn for paradise by being given a life of pleasure that included the use of hashish. From this came the name for the secret order as a whole, an, hashish users. After passing through French or Italian, the word came into English and is recorded in 1603 with reference to the Muslim Assassins. <P>In its most common use, <STRONG>assassin</STRONG> has come to mean someone who kills (<EM>assassinates</EM>) people selectively, usually for political reasons. The immediate motivation of an assassin may be money (in the case of a hit man), personal belief, orders from a government, or loyalty to a leader or group. Assassins are distinguished from <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Sniper/" target=_blank>snipers</A>, or other <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Soldier/" target=_blank>soldiers</A> who may employ the same methods, in that the latter are engaged in declared <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/War/" target=_blank>war</A> between nation-states. The distinction blurs when a sniper, soldier, or <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Spy/" target=_blank>spy</A> is given a specific target, or if the orders come through unofficial channels. Terms such as <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Death_squad/" target=_blank>death squad</A> came into use to describe such unofficial killing.</P> <P>The definition of an "assassin", as with "spy" or "terrorist", is politically loaded, and most commentators do not believe it has an objective definition.</P> <P></P>Employed to promote policyIt has been common to the politics of most cultures to use strategic killings as a tool of policy, in particular to win or avoid wars, and paid killers have always been felt necessary to this practice. <P>Political killings are thus usually referred to as "assassinations" as it is difficult to distinguish motivations (money or loyalty, usually some of both being involved) for a clandestine act, or "<A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Covert_action/" target=_blank>covert action</A>", in the parlance of <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Military_intelligence/" target=_blank>military intelligence</A>.</P> <P></P>Profit motiveIndividually, too, people have always found their reasons to arrange the deaths of others through paid intermediaries. An assassin with no political motive or group loyalty who kills <EM>only</EM> for money is known as a "hired killer" or a "<A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Hitman/" target=_blank>hitman</A>". <P>Entire organizations have sometimes specialized in assassination as one of their services. Besides the original Hashishim, the <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Ninja/" target=_blank>ninja</A> clans of <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Japan/" target=_blank>Japan</A> were rumored to perform assassinations. In the <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/United_States/" target=_blank>United States</A>, <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Murder_Incorporated/" target=_blank>Murder Incorporated</A>, an organization with ties to the <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Mafia/" target=_blank>Mafia</A>, was formed for the sole purpose of performing assassinations for organized crime.</P> <P></P>Political motiveAs there are few or no assassins who would kill friends or family strictly for money, it is argued, most could be said to have a political motive, or at least some significant inhibitions based on political or personal loyalty. <P>Before a United States executive order by President <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Gerald_Ford/" target=_blank>Gerald Ford</A> in 1976, the <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/United_States_federal_government/" target=_blank>United States federal government</A>, in particular its <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Central_Intelligence_Agency/" target=_blank>Central Intelligence Agency</A>, trained, hired, and employed assassins. The ban in 1976 came "following revelations by the Church Committee of CIA involvement in planned or actual assassinations of, among others, <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Cuba/" target=_blank>Cuban</A> President <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Fidel_Castro/" target=_blank>Fidel Castro</A>, Congolese Prime Minister <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Patrice_Lumumba/" target=_blank>Patrice Lumumba</A>, Chilean President <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Salvador_Allende/" target=_blank>Salvador Allende</A>, Dominican President <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Rafael_Trujillo/" target=_blank>Rafael Trujillo</A>, and <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Che_Guevara/" target=_blank>Che Guevara</A>." (<A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Human_Rights_Watch/" target=_blank>Human Rights Watch</A>)</P> <P>It was deemed at that time that the liability of engaging in this activity led in general to a reduced level of personal security for elected leaders of democratic countries, who are in general much more vulnerable to retaliation. President Ford himself had been the target of two assassination attempts within 18 days of each other in 1975, although the attempted assassins' motives were not deemed to be financial or political. The still-controversial assassination of President <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/John_F._Kennedy/" target=_blank>John F. Kennedy</A> thirteen years earlier in <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/1963/" target=_blank>1963</A> may also have been a factor in President Ford's executive order.</P> <P></P>Moral high groundBeyond this practical concern, there was the issue of <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Moral_equivalence/" target=_blank>moral equivalence</A>: no state that deliberately trained, hired, sanctioned or harbored an assassin operating outside the rules of war could reasonably expect support even from its allies when caught--particularly those allies suffering "<A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Terrorism/" target=_blank>terrorism</A>" against civilian targets, also outside the rules of war. <P>For democratic nation-states to claim to be better rulers than their less democratic opponents, they could not seem to be employing any assassin against leaders of political movements--thus acknowledging inability to compete with their leadership ideologically--a fatal weakness for any democratic government.</P> <P>The public pose of democratic governments in general, with the notable exception of the state of <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Israel/" target=_blank>Israel</A>, was to disdain "trial, conviction, and death by intelligence." (Anonymous US military officer).</P> <P></P>Assassination as military doctrineThe general view among most military analysts is that assassination has little utility as a military tactic. There is a belief that military and political systems are resistant against the loss of individuals and killing targeted individuals does not reduce the general ability of the military to fight. Moreover, assassination contains the risk that it will eliminate the political and military leaders who can negotiate and conduct a surrender, making it more difficult to achieve a military victory. <P></P>Killers by proxyHowever, the practice of training, hiring, and harboring assassins remained a common practice of many democratic governments and most undemocratic leaders through the 1990s. The <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/School_of_the_Americas/" target=_blank>School of the Americas</A>, operated by the United States at <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Fort_Benning,_Georgia/" target=_blank>Fort Benning, Georgia</A>, trained many individuals from Latin American nations in the exact techniques that were no longer legal for Americans to employ. Israel employed weapons from the United States to attack specific individuals in the <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/West_Bank/" target=_blank>West Bank</A> and <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Gaza_Strip/" target=_blank>Gaza Strip</A> who it believed sponsored suicide attacks. An assassin could be armed, trained, hired, hidden and harbored--but not openly and directly--by a developed nation. <P>Also, as CIA spokesman Bill Harlow asserted in 2001, "The CIA has never turned down a field request to recruit an asset in a terrorist organization." Such groups are known to execute people in custody, attack civilians, and employ banned weapons, raising the issue of whether the CIA or other nation-state military intelligence agencies recruiting them are morally liable for these actions, especially if they are committed after recruitment.</P> <P></P>Executions in custodyCurrent "international humanitarian and human rights law, as well as U.S. military and police doctrine, flatly prohibit executing anyone in actual or effective custody or targeting anyone who is not a combatant. To flout this prohibition during armed conflict would be a war crime." (<A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Human_Rights_Watch/" target=_blank>Human Rights Watch</A>, September 20, 2001). <P></P>Just another soldier?However, during the <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/2001_Afghanistan_War/" target=_blank>2001 Afghanistan War</A>, local troops equipped, fed, and in some cases paid by the United States executed prisoners in their custody -- without sanction -- raising the question of moral and legal liability for this. <P>Some questioned whether the United States had avoided employing its own troops simply to avoid taking casualties -- and over-exposing its opponents, the <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Afghan_Taliban/" target=_blank>Afghan Taliban</A>, to atrocities from its <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Afghan_Northern_Alliance/" target=_blank>Afghan Northern Alliance</A> allies, their bitter enemies. The issue in general got little attention.</P> <P>Patricia Zengel, in "Assassination and the Law of Armed Conflict", 1991, is summarized by Calder as concluding "...that there is no longer any convincing justification for retaining a unique rule of international law that treats assassination apart from other uses of force."</P> <P>This conclusion is controversial, obviously, and rarely stated in public. The debate on the definition and use of the term "assassin" is inseparable from the similar debates surrounding <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Freedom_fighter/" target=_blank>freedom fighter</A>, <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Terrorist/" target=_blank>terrorist</A>, <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Guerilla/" target=_blank>guerilla</A>, <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Spy/" target=_blank>spy</A>, <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Saboteur/" target=_blank>saboteur</A>, <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Provocateur/" target=_blank>provocateur</A>, <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Double_agent/" target=_blank>double agent</A> and other terms which are commonly used to describe players in <A href="http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Asymmetric_warfare/" target=_blank>asymmetric warfare</A>. It is only seemingly neutral when no loyalty or political motive is claimed or assumed, and only money motivates.</P></DIV>

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>Personaly Im an Assassin of Polatics, (Mostly SOE"s) <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> & a Freedom Fighter for the poor poor newb's who can't afford an adept 1 lvl 10 spell.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>However on a serious note for those who say stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about soloing Assassin's preformence. Since when does an Assassin nowadays bring along a Medic to heal and a Riot cop to tank on one of there Assassination Mission's?</P> <P>Assassins are the un-seen hero's/villian (depending who's side your on) were not asking for us to stand out above the rest.</P> <P>Were asking you to make us what we were allway's ment too be. And as for the people claimeing Assassins are Greedy, We have to buy our DPS from our pocket's we don't make any profits.</P>

[Jakr]

<div></div>hi welcome to a  game set in a  fantasy world.  you realy cant compare whata  dictionary defines an assassin as, to what it is in game.  i have no idea what the point of this post is (not gunna bother reading the whole thing) .but gl anyway on whatever it is your complaining about. and didnt you quit or somthin? <div></div><p>Message Edited by Jakron on <span class=date_text>12-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:27 AM</span>

[Tazzrin]

<div></div>Um too many spelling mistakes to read. Edit it and then come up with a valid point you're trying to convey, because I didn't see one. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Tazzrin on <span class=date_text>12-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:49 AM</span>

[steelbadger]

<P>the definition given above is the real world definition.  it bears little relation to the fantasy idea of an assassin.</P> <P> </P> <P>the problem with the popular definition of assassins is this.  Assassins are generally seen as superior warriors.  capable of getting into any building, killing the guards then beheading their target.</P> <P> </P> <P>Generally they are warriors without peer.  sure their main tactic is the use of stealth but they are still seen as elite; and as such capable of taking down a patrol full of soldiers.  The problem from the game balance point of view is that they are warriors of superior skill.  They should be able to easily take down a grey mob in one or two hits.  In this game however that is no good.  In this game you have to be able to deal with things of equal skill to be useful.  Assassins are not about that.  they are about being peerless preditors.  The best of the best.  dealing with inferior foes.</P> <P> </P> <P>for me the assassins are almost right.  from a fluff point of view.  They deal spike damage.  They can, every now and then, take down a very dangerous creature.  They need to pick their fights.  Their stealth could do with being more reliable, they could do with either a higher spike or more stuns.  They could use some sort of 'surprise round' feature being added.  So that their stealth acts as it would in the real world.  They should not be dps.  Assassins are all about killing someone quick and clean.  not about chipping away at their hp aver the course of 30 mins.  Assassins have been and gone before you have time to scream.  They could do with fixing the 'auto turn' feature on mobs.  They don't, i think, need positional attacks o be their be all and end all.  If you were to meet an assassin they are as likely to drive a blade into your heart as they are to drive one into the back of your skull.</P> <P> </P> <P>i don't understand the reason that their damage is drawn from strength. assassins know where to hit for maximum damage.  they don't just beat on their target like a stupid warrior.  Intelligence and agility should make or brake them.</P> <P> </P> <P>Enemies should not be able to block their stealth attacks.  ok the 'thing' for monks and brawlers is that they can block a stealthed attack from behind.  but why cannot assassins have the ability to always hit their target.  they are the best at stealth, the best at sneak attacks.  why have they not learned how to trick a stupid warrior?</P> <P> </P> <P>Another thing is the way that mobs can always keep up with your movements when you try to flank them.  maybe assassins should have some sort of jump skill that places them behind the enemy for just long enough to drive a blade into their spine?</P> <P> </P> <P>this is obviously never going to happen.  From a fantasy point of view, however, this is what assassins are.  This is what assassins should be.</P>

[Daivam]

Okay, the original post really needs some formatting work.. Other than that, it was an amazing bit on the origin of assassins.  Without some tie to the game it might be better suited in a different forum perhaps.  Or just add a paragraph that relates the information in some way..  Great information, very well written though. To the person who didn't bother to read it.. Your loss. To the person who doesn't see the relevance of the dictionary definition / history / origin  of the assassin to the everquest class? Boggle?!?  Think about that one for a while.  That or perhaps we should just come up with random sequences of letters to represent everything in the game since it's not relevant anyway.  Right? <div></div>

[Forsaken Falc]

<DIV>Jakron Wrote</DIV> <DIV>hi welcome to a  game set in a  fantasy world.  you realy cant compare whata  dictionary defines an assassin as, to what it is in game.  i have no idea what the point of this post is (not gunna bother reading the whole thing) .but gl anyway on whatever it is your complaining about.<BR><BR>and didnt you quit or somthin? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure I am Iv got till the 25th of December too state as much [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] as i see fit on these forum's in hope that one day's they will actrually give too [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s about our class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because Im leaving & Dislike the Dev's (with an passion) Doesn't mean I do not wish for this class to become what it allways should of been. (Iv been playing an Assassin for 13 year's so it's not like I don't know anything about them)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So untill the 25th Im gonna keep checking up Im hope that our pipe dream shall one day come true. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ohhh an the whole point of my OP was Assassins Back then and Nowadays SOLO!!!!!!! and yet Eq2 Assassins can not solo for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</DIV><p>Message Edited by Forsaken Falcon on <span class=date_text>12-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:05 PM</span>

[Jakr]

idk what you are tryin to accomplish in solo'ing.   you should be able to  straight up kill up to orange solo mobs.  straight up  tanka nd kill  green heroics,  even green named heroics, and with a bit of patience you can  kite kill pretty much any heroic mob you want. so long as they arent casters. now tbh  solo'n ability is even heavier on the skill of the player then a grp or raid standpoint not saying anyone is uber or  is a newb. but idk how much problems soloing you can have. ps im quite sick of all the solo'ers  comming to mmos and complaining  ITS A MMO  if you wanted to solo  go buy a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] platform rpg/ this isnt the place for you. <div></div>

[Forsaken Falc]

<DIV>Jakron Wrote</DIV> <DIV>idk what you are tryin to accomplish in solo'ing.   you should be able to  straight up kill up to orange solo mobs.  straight up  tanka nd kill  green heroics,  even green named heroics, and with a bit of patience you can  kite kill pretty much any heroic mob you want. so long as they arent casters.<BR><BR><BR>now tbh  solo'n ability is even heavier on the skill of the player then a grp or raid standpoint not saying anyone is uber or  is a newb. but idk how much problems soloing you can have.<BR><BR><BR><BR>ps im quite sick of all the solo'ers  comming to mmos and complaining  ITS A MMO  if you wanted to solo  go buy a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] platform rpg/ this isnt the place for you.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe If Grouping wasn't sooo pointless and a waste of time it wouldn't be a problem. I only become a Soloer after witnessing way too much bull [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with need b4 greeed not takeing place & othere class's continuesly giveing my class [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] due too they suck.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's us SOLOER who work our [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s off to beable to buy 1 item which come's from the monopoliseing grouping instent/raider</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Id never said anything about killing names in 1 hit. Brig's get to SOLO ^^^ while we can not. How is an MUGGER! more affective in a Real life battle or fantasy battle then a professonal trained killer?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From What Iv Heard Assassin WERE NOT IN EQ1. So you Fain Boiz Can't say you know better them Me on about how this class should be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and as for your last remark on buy a platform RPG man there are many MMO's where soloing is actrually a worth wile cause sadly they don't have the same potential as this game but sadly the dev's here are some what .......Seem to have multiple persoanlitys when it comes down too "WHAT THEY SEE THIS GAME TO BE"</DIV>

[khalysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Forsaken Falcon wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe If Grouping wasn't sooo pointless and a waste of time it wouldn't be a problem. I only become a Soloer after witnessing way too much bull [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with need b4 greeed not takeing place & othere class's continuesly giveing my class [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] due too they suck.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Get in a guild then.  Anytime you join a pickup group you will likely have to put up with idiots who lotto for an item and then keep it even if they dont need it and someone else does.  Guild groups are usually better in that respect since they have an interest in helping you to get better.  Also when you join a group make sure the loot rules are clear otherwise people will take advantage of things.</DIV>

[Forsaken Falc]

<P>Guild's Iv been in.</P> <P> </P> <P>1st guild = no dkp systerm all raided loots went to guild leaders so he could buy/make/scribe adepts 3s for himself</P> <P> </P> <P>2nd guild = They claimed no discrimanation and yet if they don't like your opiouns you suffer item wise reguardless of dedication.</P> <P> </P> <P>3rd guild = Was great got rewarded for dedication no monopoliseing leaders/officer's however due to there beeing many rangers warlocks and wizz's aboard Assassins since DOF for that particular guild were not but an replacement reserve DPS</P> <P> </P> <P>4th guild = My own where I recruited new players to EQ2 and gave them a helping head start now there all able to take care of themself's I'm No longer needed <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>From a High Online RPG - MMORPG Experience there is a difference between an Guild and a Clan. Sadly the kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] RP clan I was in went to FFXI & WOW I tryed till my face turned blue to move em all here but due to EQ1s Bad Rep It didn't happen <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Majority of guild on this game only look out for the leaders/officer's and dont give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about the actruall worker's, Iv seen newb's out guild status guild leader's due too them leader's left all the dirty work for ever one elles</P> <P> </P> <P>Net Clan's on the othere hand Look out For ALL Member's and TRUELY reward the dedicated reguardless of perosnality clash's and such.  Mainly Clan's of People don;t go to EQ2 for 1 simple reason.  THERE IS NOTHING TO GAIN</P> <P>WOW! 1 Fabled Item to spread around the 500+ people in our clan <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> !</P>

[Jakr]

only 500 people ina  guild? thats all . i cant see any reason why somthing could go bad lol <div></div>

[steelbadger]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Daivam wrote:<BR>To the person who doesn't see the relevance of the dictionary definition / history / origin  of the assassin to the everquest class? Boggle?!?  Think about that one for a while.  That or perhaps we should just come up with random sequences of letters to represent everything in the game since it's not relevant anyway.  Right?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>My point was that there is a <EM>very</EM> large difference between the fantasy idea of an assassin and a <EM>real</EM> assassin.  For example:  An assassin is technically only motivated by political and moral reasons.  Our idea of the paid assassin is only correct because the killing is an assassination.  Paid assassins are actually nothing more than mercinaries technically.  It is only through a quirk of language that they become assassins.</P> <P> </P> <P>I'm fairly sure that priests in the real world never went about making hand gestures and raising people from the dead every half hour.</P> <P>I'm fairly sure that Mages of our ancient cultures could never raise zombies or get the elements themselves to aid them.</P> <P> </P> <P>Fantasy classes usually bear very little resemblance to classes in our real world societies.  Whilest the difference between real assassins and fantasy assassins is smaller it is still very much there.  SOE are going the right way to give you a real world assassin.  Can only win if they have the element of surprise and the right place at the right time.  Many real world assassins never laid eyes on a blade.  Poison was always a rather popular way of dispatching your enemies.</P> <P> </P> <P>I think that what we need is to be closer to the fantasy idea of an assassin (black veiled death) than we do to the opertunists that history has labelled as 'assassins'.  Do you really want your only method of killing to be bombs?  or poisoning someone food and drink?  or shooting them with a crossbow when they are sitting in their garden?</P>

[dea]

I'm all for flavor, but it sounds like your problems with our class go deeper than that. If you have class-specific changes you want to see address then I really don't see the relevance of a historic recounting of assassins on the EQ2 Assassin sub-class.The developers either have some idea what they want our class to do, or they are completely aimless and we are lucky to have even what we have now. Regardless, talking about assassins from history is not going to change where they take our class. Much like history, fantasy relies heavily on the teller of the story -- in this case we are completely reliant on SOE to tell us what an Assassin is in EQ2. If you are hoping to give SOE a piece of your mind in hopes of a more flavorful class then I'm right there with you. If you expect them to look back on history when making this class then I'm afraid I don't believe it will ever happen.<div></div>