My take on changes in 16b

[Aienaa]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Dual-wield weapons should now trigger their proc effects more frequently.<BR></FONT> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While this has the potential to up our DPS, it will also up the DPS of every other scout class, monk, bruiser and dual wielding fighter class...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Indifferent</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Cut Throat had its hit and damage bonus improved, and its stifle duration was increased.<BR></FONT> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, so now instead of not using this spell, we are going to have to end up choosing between this and Punch Blade or another stealth attack....   The problem is, we do not have enouh ways to get into stealth....  Basicly this will be about the same damage as half our other stealth attacks, so it does nothing to increase our DPS or our soloability....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Indifferent</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Cripple is now a positional attack, and its recast time reduced from 3 minutes to 60 seconds. Its HO symbol is now a cloak.<BR></FONT> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for removing a major debuff CA that we could use while soloing and making it pretty much only usable while in groups...  It was nice that we could debuff harder mobs while soloing making them easier to hit, but thoes days are over...   Reducing the recast from 3 min to 1 min was a step in the right direction, but making yet another CA positional was 2 steps backwards....   Changing the HO symbol from Coin to Cloak makes little sence, since our all our other debuffs are Coins...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bad change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Slaughter had its arc widened and lengthened, and its casting time was reduced from 3 to 1.5 seconds.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will help quite a bit with trying to avoid stealth being broken mid-cast, and hopefully the arc has been made large enough to hit the maximum of 8 targets (change to AE) rather than the normal 3 when we happened to get this CA off before...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Bleeder's Talent had its DPS benefit doubled.</FONT><BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will hopefully make a small dent in increasing our lacking DPS...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Blade Frenzy's proc now has an increased chance to hit.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will have to wait and see how much of a change, but anything has to be better than the almost non-existant proc we have now...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Makeshift Weapon had its casting time reduced to 1 second, and it no longer has a positional requirement.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a step in the right direction, but as I recall, the damage this does is awfully low, but I guess it does give us an additional frontal attack that is greatly needed....  Yet this change is overshadowed by the fact that we lost Cripple as one of the attacks we could use from the front and a debuff one at that...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Hidden Assault had its casting time reduced to 1 second. Its DoT duration was halved, but its tick count was not decreased.<BR></FONT> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will help quite a bit with stealth breaking problems we have been encountering while attempting to do area attacks...  The faster DOT damage is also a good change as it should have a better chance of dealing it's entire damage before all the mobs in the encounter have been killed...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Head Shot and Cripple can now be performed before stealth breaks, instead of breaking stealth in order to use them.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally do not see what this change is suposed to do....  Head Shot is a ranged attack and Cripple is a debuff attack...  I see no reason why either of these should be able to be performed while stealthed....  This change makes no sence at all....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Useless change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Punch Blade will now function when Brigand's Run Through is active.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bug Fix</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Numbing Strike had its damage slightly increased. The root effect now has a chance to break on damage rather than having a chance to break periodically.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem with the numbing strike line was not that it didn't do enough damage, it that people liked it better when the mobs would not turn if you were a good distance away so they were able to swing around and get off a ranged CA that required position behind the mob...   I used it a bit differently since I duo with a Troubador lot, I would use it so that I could back off and the mob would then turn towards her and I could get off a few positional ranged CAs...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With periodic check, there was smaller chance for the mob to break the root....  With it being changed to break-on-damage, there is a much greater chance that the root will break, and depending on how high the chance to break root is, it could deem this CA as useless....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bad change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Honed Reflexes is now more effective in granting temporary haste.<BR></FONT> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is something I would use in conjunction with the Brutal Focus line...  I have not seen what changes to this were, but if the %haste was increased or duration was increased or the reuse time decreased, I supose this would be a change for the better...  There just is not enough information available on this to make determination on it's usefullness...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good Change ??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Cheap Shot is now a maintained ability. Its stun duration is now a fixed amount that does not increase with additional levels.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmmm....  What exactly is this suposed to mean??  I have read that it's a 2 second stun on Heroics and a 6 second stun on non-heroics....  2 seconds means pretty much nothing and 6 seconds is a loss of 1 second from what we had</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bad Change ??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Overview - </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only truely good changes comming out of this is the changes made to the AE Attacks, boosting the DPS from Bleeder's Talent line and fixing the proc rate (hopefully) of the Blade Frenzy line....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The completely ignored the complaints about having too many attacks that require stealth / positioning which is evident through making Cripple a positional attack, then trying to toss us a bone by making Makehift Weapon non-positional (much lower damage CA)....  Personally I would rather have the 2 reversed (Cripple non-positional, and Makeshift Weapon positional) because I would much rather have our biggest defense debuff usable while attacking from the front (Solo)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No where did they mention fixing our buggy stealth (comming out of stealth for no apparent reason) which causes great loss to our DPS....  They did not address Concealment failing to put you into stealth upon using it</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They did not address the problem of having only 2 ways to go into stealth compared to the numerous number of stealth attacks, which leads to CAs going unused due to lack of ways to get into stealth in order to use them...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They did not address the exceeding long recast timers on our CAs...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They did not address our lack of ability to stun so that we might be able to use some of our numerous positional attacks while soloing, but instead what they did do, was decrease our stun from 7 second to 6 seconds...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my eyes, they reduced the effectivness of our root line by making the break checks Break-On-Damage rather than Perodic...  This will lead to root being useless any time other than being solo, and the larger the group your in, the greater the chance that your root is going to break...  During Solo instances, if you load up the DOTs on the mob, root, then back up for a breather while your dots do thier work, you have a much greater chance of the root breaking after this change than before the change, thus making soloing even harder....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not sure what it is they are trying to do, but for every 1 thing they make better, they turn around and make something else worse....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin</DIV>

[Tealdea]

I think our root breaking on damage is complete bull also... I mean it's only 12 seconds as compaired to mages, some of they crap last up to or close to one full minute and they're nuking the hell outta the creature... I'm just confused now... heh... I'm a rogue.. arn't I? I mean... yeah, backstabbing and all... lol, I think the designer of the assassin's quit working for Sony and the rogue guy has taken over, obviously. <div></div>

[Amise]

<span><blockquote><hr>Aienaa wrote:<div> </div> <div> <hr> </div> <div><font color="#ffff00">- Makeshift Weapon had its casting time reduced to 1 second, and it no longer has a positional requirement.</font></div> <div> <hr> </div> <div> </div> <div>This is a step in the right direction, but as I recall, the damage this does is awfully low, but I guess it does give us an additional frontal attack that is greatly needed....  Yet this change is overshadowed by the fact that we lost Cripple as one of the attacks we could use from the front and a debuff one at that...</div> <div> </div> <div>Good change</div> <hr></blockquote>This is better than it looks at first glance.  It's now 1 second cast time with no minimum range & 20 sec recast.   I think this is probably one of the best changes in the list.  More than makes up for losing Cripple as a frontal attack IMO.</span><div></div>

[Skratttt]

<DIV>Yeah its a nice skill...now we got  2 frontal ranged atacks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> when i solo ^ up mobs i allways need to use our root strike.. run off with bow on...FB...wait till root wears off...now i can use this while at range for aditional dmg <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I got it in Master 2 version so its about 400avg dmg every 20 seconds thats 20dps max  if averaged to whats the fastest one can continually spam this..not much but its a start..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So Basically we gained a nonpositional atack on 20 second recast...But traded off another which is now gona be on 1/3 the recast.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Suposing old Cripple was about 600 dmg (this skill i only have adept 1 so thats what i see on avg after anathema)...it comes out to a whoping 3.33 dps!........New Cripple does 10dps but its rear only</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So hum we traded Position requirements on a 3.33 dps skill for a 20 dps skill (theoretical max using the stated avg dmg)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hum am i the only one who would gladly take this trade?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again i think we might not be T1 dmg just yet but this is a step well in the right direction</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Aienaa]

<DIV>I'm not sure what cripple your using, but the Cripple Strike I use at AD3 does 1200 damage and on the new timer of 1 min, that is 20 DPS as well, but your loosing the major defense debuff by making it positional...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, again, how is making Cripple positional and Makeshift Weapon line non-positional a good thing...  Same DPS, but your loosing the ability to debuff defense by 47 from the front...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin</DIV>

[dparker7]

You know, they listed specific spells, not spell lines.

[Amise]

The only time I might need Cripple and not be able to use it easily is when tanking in a group.  And considering every other class tanks better than me it is rare that this will be an issue.  So for me the positional changes to the Cripple line are relevant as a soloer only. Contrived Weapon is going to be a non-positional attack you can use from<i> any</i> range up to the maximum, and it does about half the damage of Cripple (my CW is ad1 & does 350-600, my Crippling Strike is ad3, does 740-1234 and buffs <i>3</i>7 defense).  Of course the CW line has twice the cast time, but honestly I don't take that into account much because for a soloing assassin the objective is to do as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time possible, it's not about DPS exactly but just about throwing everything neccessary at a mob to make it fall down faster than I do.  For me a 20 sec refresh attack beats a 1 min refresh attack hands down simply because it's available to use more often.   I've rarely needed to use Cripple for the debuff when soloing nor have I ever noticed a difference in a crippled solo mob compared to an uncrippled one.  They don't last long enough.  I soloed the majority of 50-60 and the debuff portion of Cripple paled in importance compared to the damage part. <div></div>

[Skratttt]

<DIV>"I'm not sure what cripple your using, but the Cripple Strike I use at AD3 does 1200 damage and on the new timer of 1 min, that is 20 DPS as well, "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes but u notice on the NEW timer its 20 dps...old timer divide that by 3.......6.66 dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically with your version of Cripple.....you had 6.66 frontal + debuff every 3 mins and 20 dps from behind</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While now u got 20 dps frontal + 20 dps from behind with debuff every 1 minute......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What i like is that both are NON stealth atacks...which with the frequency of mob AE in raids makes them good aditional dps tools</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now for those of you who solo think of this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When i solo i allways start with both bow atacks....now i can use MW also while they charge..while cripple i had to wait till they were on me..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Il just use AS/FS(whichever is up) FB, MW (Ho combo key) anatema, LB, cheapshot, cripple, MoN....Punchblade...mob will sure be dead by now solo if its non arrow solo mob ......if still alive i got my 3 other frontals...and 2 frontals refreshing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if you want more Frontal atacks.....why?? your dps suffers while engaging  a mob from the front (unless its stupid brawler mob...those your dps suffers all arround...brawler mobs are overpowered) Did it not irritate u when a mob dodges/blocks/riptoses Cripple and its down for 3 minutes <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<div></div><font color="#ffffff">A few of these changes are ok, especially the much needed change to cast times of aes and garrote dmg - when you think about it the aes will still have pretty big cast times even with these changes with requiring stealth and the issues of using up stealth and other cas requiring stealth. But it still does not address our issues of being a tier 1 dps class. Our main damage attacks are still too long recasts, why won't SOE change them? Gorestrike, Deathly Blade and Asssassinate are still huge recast times of 1min, 5min and 15 min. You wouldn't believe how many classes I can mention that have a spell or two that does the same as gorestrike yet have recast times of 30 secs or 15 secs!! Not to mention our huge cast times with requiring stealth and stealth probs. And recast of 5 min and 15 min for deathly blade and assassinate? They also require stealth which means we have the highest cast times our of all the scouts. (There is also a few bugs relating to stealth where sometimes when you go into stealth and queue an attack, it will freeze there for a few seconds so the total time to do that ca would be around 4 secs. Another one is where sometimes we would use sneak and it would come out of sneak straight away so we just wasted a sneak.) Their damage is not outstanding anyway... I'm still speechless there. Just to tell SOE devs if they still do not realise it themselves, hunt + ca = 3 sec cast time to get the ca off. Mask of night is locked with punch blade, so we only have surveil left for gorstrike, deathly blade, garrote, assassinate, murderer's assault, massacre. Explain this to me please! Also for those who thought when they said something's recast time will be reduced to 1/3 and made a positional attack, they were referring to cripple line, so our assassinate will still 15 min recast. </font><font color="#ffffff"> </font><div></div><p>Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on <span class=date_text>11-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:51 AM</span>

[dea]

<div></div><div></div>My opinion differs on a few points as follows:<span><blockquote><hr><div><i><font color="#666699">- Cut Throat had its hit and damage bonus improved, and its stifle duration was increased.</font></i></div><i></i><div><i><font color="#ffffff">Ok, so now instead of not using this spell, we are going to have to end up choosing between this and Punch Blade or another stealth attack....   The problem is, we do not have enouh ways to get into stealth....  Basicly this will be about the same damage as half our other stealth attacks, so it does nothing to increase our DPS or our soloability....</font></i></div><div><i><font color="#ffffff"> </font></i></div><div><i><font color="#ffffff">Indifferent</font></i><hr></div></blockquote><div><font color="#ffffff">I will now be using Garrote more regularly in my Concealment chain since the damage has been restored to the pre-CU values (what it was in DoF beta before the late nerf). This power cannot be used very effectively before clvl 55 and until then will remain situationally useful (to be used when other high damage stealth attacks are down). Additional stealths are still needed, pre clvl 55, to make this power more generally useful.</font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff">As a high level character I like this change very much. If I was leveling up as a mid-level character I would continue to be fustrated with this spell.</font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff">While certainly debatable, I see this as a <i><b>GOOD</b></i> Change for the raiding community of which I am a part of.</font></div><div></div><blockquote><div><hr><i><font color="#666699">- Cripple is now a positional attack, and its recast time reduced from 3 minutes to 60 seconds. Its HO symbol is now a cloak.</font></i></div><div><i><font color="#666699"> </font></i></div><div><i>Thanks for removing a major debuff CA that we could use while soloing and making it pretty much only usable while in groups...  It was nice that we could debuff harder mobs while soloing making them easier to hit, but thoes days are over...   Reducing the recast from 3 min to 1 min was a step in the right direction, but making yet another CA positional was 2 steps backwards....   Changing the HO symbol from Coin to Cloak makes little sence, since our all our other debuffs are Coins...</i></div><div><i> </i></div><div><i>Bad change</i><hr></div></blockquote></span><span><blockquote></blockquote><div><font color="#ffffff">We were just gifted with a permanent debuff. I'm not sure why a non-Rogue would be given such a power (beyond the Dirty Tricks line) but whatever, at least it does reasonable damage. The change to positional will slightly lower our DPS output if mobs are moving or aggro is shifting around your group/raid, for this reason the change is somewhat dubious except for the fact that it is now castable much more regularly (this is the moderate damage, positional, non-stealth, fast recast, combat art various Assassins have been asking for).</font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff">Changing from coin to cloak indicates that it is a positional/stealth spell and as such is an appropriate change.</font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff">While somewhat odd, this is a <i><b>GOOD</b></i> change in my opinion.</font></div><blockquote><div><hr><i><font color="#666699">- Slaughter had its arc widened and lengthened, and its casting time was reduced from 3 to 1.5 seconds.</font></i></div><div><i> </i></div><div><i>This will help quite a bit with trying to avoid stealth being broken mid-cast, and hopefully the arc has been made large enough to hit the maximum of 8 targets (change to AE) rather than the normal 3 when we happened to get this CA off before...</i></div><div><i> </i></div><div><i>Good change...</i><span><div><i> </i></div><div><i><font color="#666699">- Hidden Assault had its casting time reduced to 1 second. Its DoT duration was halved, but its tick count was not decreased.</font> </i></div><div><i>This will help quite a bit with stealth breaking problems we have been encountering while attempting to do area attacks...  The faster DOT damage is also a good change as it should have a better chance of dealing it's entire damage before all the mobs in the encounter have been killed...</i></div><div><i> </i></div><div><i>Good change</i></div></span><hr></div></blockquote></span><span><blockquote></blockquote><div><font color="#ffffff">This change side-steps the real problem of stealth being broken by indirect damage (AEs not targeted specifically at us) and attempts to placate the Assassin community by bringing our recast times in line with those of other classes.While I am a firm believer in the Brigand buff that allows them to avoid AE damage (I like my mobs to be debuffed), the Predator and Assassin stealth powers need to provide a similar benefit (either using Focus to resist the stealth breaking effect while we still take damage, or stealth providing immunity to indirect AE damage during its duration).</font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff">Nice try, but I am <i><b>INDIFFERENT</b></i> as there is more work to be done to our AE lines after this change.</font></div><blockquote><div><hr></div><div><font color="#666699">- Bleeder's Talent had its DPS benefit doubled.</font></div><div><i>This will hopefully make a small dent in increasing our lacking DPS...</i></div><div><i> </i></div><div><i>Good change</i><hr></div></blockquote></span><span><div>I agree that this is a small improvement for overall damage output. <font color="#ffff00">The Assassin class is still hampered, however, by the lack of a self strength buff</font>. This change does not address the simple fact that under many conditions +dps is not as viable as +str. Certainly it stacks separately and provides additional DPS while our long delay combat arts are refreshing, but <font color="#ffff00">our large hits have their effectiveness reduced significantly when we do not have maximum strength</font>.Fixing the 'chasing the attribute cap' bug will not solve this problem either, it remains that equipment choice is hampered by our reliance on gear and group buffs to maximize our strength attribute for combat art damage.<font color="#ffff00">I would much prefer to see the +dps benefit remain the same and have this ability provide a +strength buff on the same order of magnitude as our +agility on this buff.</font>I am <b><i>INDIFFERENT</i></b> to this change, as it attempts to fix us without addressing the real problem I see in our self-buff.</div><blockquote><div><hr></div><div><i><font color="#666699">- Makeshift Weapon had its casting time reduced to 1 second, and it no longer has a positional requirement.</font></i></div><div><i> </i></div><div><i>This is a step in the right direction, but as I recall, the damage this does is awfully low, but I guess it does give us an additional frontal attack that is greatly needed....  Yet this change is overshadowed by the fact that we lost Cripple as one of the attacks we could use from the front and a debuff one at that...</i></div><div><i> </i></div><div><i>Good change</i><hr></div></blockquote>Just as a point of interest, at Master I and Master II the Makeshift Weapon line does reasonable damage especially with its change to non-positional and the casting time reduction to 1 second.</span><span><blockquote><div><hr></div><div><font color="#666699"><i>- Honed Reflexes is now more effective in granting temporary haste.</i></font></div><div><i> </i></div><div><i>This is something I would use in conjunction with the Brutal Focus line...  I have not seen what changes to this were, but if the %haste was increased or duration was increased or the reuse time decreased, I supose this would be a change for the better...  There just is not enough information available on this to make determination on it's usefullness...</i></div><div><i> </i></div><div><i>Good Change ??</i><hr></div></blockquote>Personally I have little use for temporary haste, most groups that I find myself in will provide some degree of haste (I have the understanding that this haste and other group haste do not stack). This may be a benefit to the soloers among the Predator class.As such even with the reduced duration, I think that this is a <b><i>GOOD</i></b> change.<div><b>Remarks:</b>Overall the change to the Cripple line cements our sub-class even further into solo unfriendly status. I am going to wait to see for myself before rendering any judgement on the change to Cheap Shot and its ability to make an Assassin a viable soloer.<span><i>What was done right:</i>(1) Addition of a fast recast, positional only combat art with moderate damage (Cripple line) as requested on these forums(2) Decreased cast time on Assassin AEs increases viability of these combat arts considerably (but this is still not fixed to my satisfaction, see above for indirect damage breaking stealth)(3) Garrote damage has been un-nerfed(4) Makeshift Weapon has been made more viable as a damage dealing combat art instead of something to be used only while moving into melee range, essentially this will see use where Faltering Blast was used pre-CU</span><i>The following still need to be addressed:</i>(1) Lack of enough stealth powers before clvl 55(2) Indirect damage continues to break stealth, requiring even more stealth powers to be used up(3) Lack of a self strength buff decreases viability by hampering combat art damage and railroading our equipment choices in many situations(4) Concealment requires fiddling on our end to get into stealth (I'm going to guess maybe 60% of the time it fails in this fashion)(5) Casting time of 0.5s for most of our attacks is still too long in my opinion(6) Assassins lost the advantage of our Slip Away line (instant cast, instant recast, faster movement) for no gain while still needing more stealths useable in-combat<span>(7) Brutal Focus, a burst damage combat art, can't compare with Inspired Daring (Swashbuckler); Brutal Instinct (Ranger) is perhaps balanced with ours, but its hard to say for sure<img src="http://janus.ntsj.com/eq2/Brutal_Focus_Master_I.jpg"><img src="http://janus.ntsj.com/eq2/Brutal_Instinct_Master_I.jpg"><img src="http://janus.ntsj.com/eq2/Inspired_Daring_Master_I.jpg"></span></div></span>Note that while Brutal Focus and Brutal Instinct have a 36 second duration, Inspired Daring has only a 13 second duration, offset slightly by just over 1/2 of the recast time. The reason I can accept that Brutal Instinct may be balanced with our Brutal Focus is that Rangers will not be getting an accuracy increase in their melee attacks and their ranged attacks carry a significant delay. I don't have hard numbers but I do feel that the Swashbuckler's have a distinct advantage here.<div></div><p>Message Edited by deaks on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:55 AM</span>

[deciever]

A Swashbuckler being played at it's max potential can ALWAYS do more damage than an Assassin being played at it's max potential. I am not just talking about a small bit more damage, a swashbuckler in my guild has done over x3 my total damage in a raid fight on more than one occasion, and he usually does at least x2 more my damage. No jokes. He's a good player, I'm glad he's doing good damage... And I'm a good player, I play my class to it's full potential... Yet, I am ALWAYS out-damaged by someone who was supposed to be a lower DPS tier than myself. Not to mention, swashbucklers can also tank WELL in groups, they get group stealth, and they get awesome self-buffs! Holy crap, they can do almost all of their damage from up front... And it's better DPS than an Assassin can EVER possibly provide, no matter WHAT you do. Their damage isn't situational, or positional. They don't have any ridiculous recasts. They don't have barely any problems at all. I don't want them to be nerfed, but.. How come Swashbucklers have it so good, and us Assassins have it so bad? I don't want to reroll... <div></div>

[Tealdea]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:I don't want to reroll... <hr></blockquote>I wonder how many Assassin's have quit because they didn't want to reroll either... I want to hear a Dev post a full explanation on their insight and view of an Assassin. I want them to remind me what they origanally wanted this class to be. The best stealth class, the best melee damage class, yeah, those things aren't so anymore... So where is the paper all the plans Sony has for the class? I want to know now.. What's going to happen to the class? I mean tell me right now... We gonna continue to gain more and more positional attacks so we can have more damage?!?! You going to force every Assassin to say "/gu I feel like solo'n... but I can't get behind the creature to use EVERY skill I have... so any fighter's wanna go tag team style?". Don't throw this "stun and move behind" crap in my face, I know how to play my class, I know if something has flesh it can be cut from any dirrection. Button pressing </span><span>(AKA Fighter, Mage, Priest, big whoop)</span><span> ya say?  I don't care... Aslong as I'm killing. I have no group quality, hardly any self buffs for myself, I do such little damage on a longer time scale compared to every other DPS class... After all this, no group usefulness, no self str buffs, undesired by other classes, making more attacks positional... How you gonna make Assassin's in the long run? I was to see the notes....</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Tealdeath on <span class=date_text>11-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:06 PM</span>

[deciever]

I feel your pain. <div></div>

[Phaethor]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>- Head Shot and Cripple can now be performed before stealth breaks, instead of breaking stealth in order to use them.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally do not see what this change is suposed to do....  Head Shot is a ranged attack and Cripple is a debuff attack...  I see no reason why either of these should be able to be performed while stealthed....  This change makes no sence at all....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Useless change</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like this, Often I want to do a Ranged attack and stay in stealth while in a group in order to get a few more stealth based attacks in to up my DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Phae</DIV>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Comparing our focus line with the swashy's inspired daring is not a fair comparison. Inspired daring is the swashies class defining lvl 50 spell, just like ice comet is for wizards, devastation for warlocks, assassinate for assassins etc etc. That aside, as with my previous posts, the assassin class still has some issues, mainly too long cast times and recast times on our main damage cas. I encourage the devs to please stare at deathly blade and assassinate for a few mins to see what the problem is and gorestrike as it only does dmg, is positional and requires stealth. <div></div>

[Drtydog]

<P>How many have quit?  Good question.  If i was not in a guild and had a grp of players every single night there is no way I would have continued playing an assassin.  In fact, if i'd known hten what i know now i would not have played one or i would have rerolled.  The class, when compared to other scouts, is just lacking.   The only reason i play it still is because I like playing with my grp and guild...that's it.</P> <P>How many have quit?  I dont' know but there were only two level 56 assassasin on oggok when i hit it...I was one of them and I don't power level...</P>

[Tealdea]

Cripple is hard to use in duels now, and against solo single arrow up creatures <span>:smileysad:</span>... I hate the positional punishment just for the 2 minutes it lost on recast... Pretty much a group skill now. <div></div>

[liveja]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>deciever69 wrote:</P> <P><BR>swashbucklers can also tank WELL in groups.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not for long, I can't.</P> <P>As for doing almost all of my damage up-front: no. Most of my damage comes from positional/stealth attacks. I do have good CAs for doing damage up front, but they're mostly good because they have short recast times, not because they do heavy damage.</P> <P>OTOH, I've been waiting for the Nerf Bat to be swung at us for some time now, & apparently, it's begun. Check out the Swashie board.</P>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

Regarding assassin vs swashy soloing, the swashy definitely has the upper hand here. I know because I have a 57 swashy and 60 sin. Swashies have an array of interrupts, stuns and a mez whereas all assassins have is one stun - cheap shot. Rogues are also beefier than predators. Although yes swashies also have positional attacks, with the stuns and mez you can get all of them off very often - in addition there is only one stealth attack, whereas literally more than half the assasins cas require stealth and some to be positional as well - all this with one stun. Not saying swashy's soloing capabilities should be changed at all, they are quite fun the way they are currently. But indeed the assassin soloing issues remain to be addressed - it was hard before LU16, and even harder after it. <div></div>

[khalysta]

you can always go get a stun poison if you really want more stuns.  To be honest though the last two nights as I have been soloing I really havent needed a secondary stun.  The higher proc rate has really made poisons and weapons go off a ton.  High dd/low dot dmg poisons keep firing and inflicting mass damage on the low hp solo mobs.  Even on high yellows I was killing things off pretty fast.  Paralyzing strike would be much better as a stun/knockback in my opinion but even then it really wouldnt give you much extra in the solo situation because again the kill speed is so quick now.

[DonSavan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deciever69 wrote:<BR>A Swashbuckler being played at it's max potential can ALWAYS do more damage than an Assassin being played at it's max potential. I am not just talking about a small bit more damage, a swashbuckler in my guild has done over x3 my total damage in a raid fight on more than one occasion, and he usually does at least x2 more my damage. No jokes. He's a good player, I'm glad he's doing good damage... And I'm a good player, I play my class to it's full potential... Yet, I am ALWAYS out-damaged by someone who was supposed to be a lower DPS tier than myself. Not to mention, swashbucklers can also tank WELL in groups, they get group stealth, and they get awesome self-buffs! Holy crap, they can do almost all of their damage from up front... And it's better DPS than an Assassin can EVER possibly provide, no matter WHAT you do. Their damage isn't situational, or positional. They don't have any ridiculous recasts. They don't have barely any problems at all. I don't want them to be nerfed, but.. How come Swashbucklers have it so good, and us Assassins have it so bad? I don't want to reroll... <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Get a clue before you Post about another class, ourdamage IS situational and positional.  We have 3 flanks or backstabs, and our two big hitters that aren't positional are multiple strikes that only land if the strike before it lands.  Sure it can be used up front, but good luck getting more than 1/3 of the damage potential from the front.</P> <P>We have low cast timers, aye, but we have to constantly spam our CAs which = using power like a madman...where you assassins can do better damage without using a fraction of the power.</P> <P>So you say you get outdamaged by a swash everytime, from my experience grouping with assassins that  means the swashy has upgraded their skills and you have not.  Funny how you fail to mention skill upgrades or armor choices in you post :smileysurprised:</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by DonSavantx on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:24 AM</span>

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>DonSavantx wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div><p>Get a clue before you Post about another class, ourdamage IS situational and positional.  We have 3 flanks or backstabs, and our two big hitters that aren't positional are multiple strikes that only land if the strike before it lands.  Sure it can be used up front, but good luck getting more than 1/3 of the damage potential from the front. </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">Sorry. What I meant to say is that the majority of your damage can be done from anywhere, and it adds up to be better damage than assassins could even dream of putting out. Swashbucklers are more capable of putting out more damage than assassins in any situation. Their CA's allow this to be so.</font> </p> <p>We have low cast timers, aye, but we have to constantly spam our CAs which = using power like a madman...where you assassins can do better damage without using a fraction of the power. </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">Can anyone tell me what power is for again? I forgot. I wouldn't mind being able to spam my CA's. At least you have the option to sustain your damage.</font> </p> <p>So you say you get outdamaged by a swash everytime, from my experience grouping with assassins that  means the swashy has upgraded their skills and you have not.  Funny how you fail to mention skill upgrades or armor choices in you post :smileysurprised: </p> <p><font color="#ff0000">I would have addressed those things if I honestly thought it was necessary to do so. It's not relevant to the CORE problem of assassins. If an assassin and a swashbuckler are in a raid on any high-end epic mob, wearing the best armor and wielding the best weapons, with all spells at the highest upgrade possible... A swashbuckler being played at it's max potential will do more damage than an assassin being played at it's max potential NO MATTER WHAT because assassins are SCREWED UP. Swashbucklers are a CAPABLE class, they are a GOOD class. </font></p> <p><font color="#ff0000">Again, I don't want swashbucklers to be nerfed.. I just don't want assassins to be CRAP compared to them in EVERY ASPECT, and honestly, that's the way it is right now.</font></p> <p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Aienaa]

<P>**REMOVED DUE TO INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT**</P><p>Message Edited by Raijinn Thunderguard on <span class=date_text>11-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:27 AM</span>

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>khalysta wrote:you can always go get a stun poison if you really want more stuns.  To be honest though the last two nights as I have been soloing I really havent needed a secondary stun.  The higher proc rate has really made poisons and weapons go off a ton.  High dd/low dot dmg poisons keep firing and inflicting mass damage on the low hp solo mobs.  Even on high yellows I was killing things off pretty fast.  Paralyzing strike would be much better as a stun/knockback in my opinion but even then it really wouldnt give you much extra in the solo situation because again the kill speed is so quick now.<hr></blockquote>Other DPS classes do what we do.. Better.</span><div></div>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>DonSavantx wrote: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deciever69 wrote:<BR>A Swashbuckler being played at it's max potential can ALWAYS do more damage than an Assassin being played at it's max potential. I am not just talking about a small bit more damage, a swashbuckler in my guild has done over x3 my total damage in a raid fight on more than one occasion, and he usually does at least x2 more my damage. No jokes. He's a good player, I'm glad he's doing good damage... And I'm a good player, I play my class to it's full potential... Yet, I am ALWAYS out-damaged by someone who was supposed to be a lower DPS tier than myself. Not to mention, swashbucklers can also tank WELL in groups, they get group stealth, and they get awesome self-buffs! Holy crap, they can do almost all of their damage from up front... And it's better DPS than an Assassin can EVER possibly provide, no matter WHAT you do. Their damage isn't situational, or positional. They don't have any ridiculous recasts. They don't have barely any problems at all. I don't want them to be nerfed, but.. How come Swashbucklers have it so good, and us Assassins have it so bad? I don't want to reroll... <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Get a clue before you Post about another class, ourdamage IS situational and positional.  We have 3 flanks or backstabs, and our two big hitters that aren't positional are multiple strikes that only land if the strike before it lands.  Sure it can be used up front, but good luck getting more than 1/3 of the damage potential from the front.</P> <P>We have low cast timers, aye, but we have to constantly spam our CAs which = using power like a madman...where you assassins can do better damage without using a fraction of the power.</P> <P>So you say you get outdamaged by a swash everytime, from my experience grouping with assassins that  means the swashy has upgraded their skills and you have not.  Funny how you fail to mention skill upgrades or armor choices in you post :smileysurprised:</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by DonSavantx on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:24 AM</span><hr></blockquote>So u think assassin can just stand there and autoattack for great dmg? i constantly chain CA, stealth, backstab and such. My power usage can 100% garantee more than you, while my DPS atm only keeping around 400-500, consider I work so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard for the number too.

[DonSavan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deciever69 wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR></SPAN> ...........<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Cut it out to save room, but point taken.  I would like everyone to be happy with their class.  BUT I am not sure you are taking all the factors into account with your comparison.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Equipment helps, and skill upgrades are <EM><STRONG>very</STRONG></EM> important, and there is always the fact that level is prolly the biggest factor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not know much about how assassins work, as I group with them, but don't play one....but it looked to me like you guys got a pretty nice upgrade in the last patch.  Have you parsed since then?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From my experience before the patch, grouping and dueling with assassins, they are not, In my opinion, "crap" compared to swashbucklers</DIV><p>Message Edited by DonSavantx on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 AM</span>

[DonSavan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Demonskiller wrote:<BR><BR><BR>So u think assassin can just stand there and autoattack for great dmg? i constantly chain CA, stealth, backstab and such. My power usage can 100% garantee more than you, while my DPS atm only keeping around 400-500, consider I work so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard for the number too.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Where the hell did i say you could just sit there with autoattack.</P> <DIV>I am going by the fact that i use about twice the power of ANY predator class that I ever group with.  One, a ranger, outdamages me in about 9 out of 10 kills, and that one kill, i am guessing, would account for a time when some of his big damage skills are not in play.  This is with me using TWICE the power he does.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are factors out there besides damage that need to be taken into account.  If a swash can keep up in damage but uses twice the power of you, it will hurt the swash in the long run while you can still keep up your damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know what your definition of chaining combat arts are, but I have an art queued <EM><STRONG>at all times</STRONG> </EM>in a fight(non raid).  That is what I consider chaining arts non stop.  Do you do that in a fight?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>400-500 is a good number for your level, at your level i would hit about 350 on most fights, hitting up near 500 with inspired daring+hurricane+finess+ruthless cunning(ie. putting everything i had into it)  when fighting groups of mobs, or just around 400 with inspired daring but no group mobs.   This was with dualwielding imbued cobalt weapons and almost full cobalt armor, + mostly adept3s, going all out chaining combat arts non stop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Numbers may be off as I am going by memory.  </DIV><p>Message Edited by DonSavantx on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:37 AM</span>

[dea]

<span><blockquote><hr>DonSavantx wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Demonskiller wrote:So u think assassin can just stand there and autoattack for great dmg? i constantly chain CA, stealth, backstab and such. My power usage can 100% garantee more than you, while my DPS atm only keeping around 400-500, consider I work so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard for the number too. <hr> </blockquote> <p>Where the hell did i say you could just sit there with autoattack.</p> <div>I am going by the fact that i use about twice the power of ANY predator class that I ever group with.  One, a ranger, outdamages me in about 9 out of 10 kills, and that one kill, i am guessing, would account for a time when some of his big damage skills are not in play.  This is with me using TWICE the power he does.  </div> <div> </div> <div>There are factors out there besides damage that need to be taken into account.  If a swash can keep up in damage but uses twice the power of you, it will hurt the swash in the long run while you can still keep up your damage.</div> <div> </div> <div>I don't know what your definition of chaining combat arts are, but I have an art queued <em><strong>at all times</strong> </em>in a fight(non raid).  That is what I consider chaining arts non stop.  Do you do that in a fight?  </div> <div> </div> <div>400-500 is a good number for your level, at your level i would hit about 350 on most fights, hitting up near 500 with inspired daring+hurricane+finess+ruthless cunning(ie. putting everything i had into it)  when fighting groups of mobs, or just around 400 with inspired daring but no group mobs.   This was with dualwielding imbued cobalt weapons and almost full cobalt armor, + mostly adept3s, going all out chaining combat arts non stop.</div> <div> </div> <div>Numbers may be off as I am going by memory.  </div><p>Message Edited by DonSavantx on <span class="date_text">11-11-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:37 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Power usage problems aren't limited to the Swashbuckler class. Both before and after the combat update my Swashbuckler guildmate and I can easily burn our mana supply when not running in and out of an Epic fight, we ran empty at approximately the same time. After comparing power costs what we realized is that while he was spamming combat arts more than I (due to faster recast timers on many attacks) the mana usage on the Assassin combat arts is such that we end up fairly close for power usage in the long run. Rangers post-CU seem to be able to get away with far less power usage than either of the Swashbuckler or Assassin. After LU16 the Assassins can get away with slightly lessened power usage due to some damage output improvements. Our swashbuckler is outfitted with excellent equipment and almost all of his tier 5 master spells, this may make up for some of the damage discrepancies between the DPS you are reporting and what he posts regularly. While xping in the mid-50s he could routinely carry a group with respect to damage output with encounters dying quickly enough for him to post numbers over 1k DPS.</span><div></div>

[DonSavan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <HR> <FONT color=#ffff00>you can always go get a stun poison if you really want more stuns.  To be honest though the last two nights as I have been soloing I really havent needed a secondary stun.  The higher proc rate has really made poisons and weapons go off a ton.  High dd/low dot dmg poisons keep firing and inflicting mass damage on the low hp solo mobs.  Even on high yellows I was killing things off pretty fast.  Paralyzing strike would be much better as a stun/knockback in my opinion but even then it really wouldnt give you much extra in the solo situation because again the kill speed is so quick now.</FONT> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Comming from someone that pretty much took off with thier old guilds bank, telling everyone to go out and buy stun poisons because our class can't cut it on it's own is totally unacceptable....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Listen Khalysta, you have not played your Assassin in ages, quit comming here and telling everyone that plays EVERY day that they do not know what they are talking about...  You havn't even hit that point where all of your fabled gear you have has become WORTHLESS (armor only good for 15 levels, T5 Fabled = worthless after ~ level 55) and you have to downgrade your gear just to get some of your mitigation back..   Leveling from 54 to 55 took my defense from 36 down to 24, I have only just finially got it back up in the 35 range... That still means that instead of progressing with my 10 new levels, I was only set further back than when I started...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You really need to play more than just the last 2 nights, if you want to come here and tell people they don't know what they are talking about...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>She said to buy stun poisons if you WANT MORE STUNS, not because your class can't cut it.  If you actually read the post you see she said she could take down yellow mobs no problem WITHOUT stun poisons....and this with the fact, which you pointed out,  that she hasn't played her assassin in ages, I think you're just shooting yourself in the foot with your post heh</DIV>

[DonSavan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> deaks wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>Power usage problems aren't limited to the Swashbuckler class. Both before and after the combat update my Swashbuckler guildmate and I can easily burn our mana supply when not running in and out of an Epic fight, we ran empty at approximately the same time. After comparing power costs what we realized is that while he was spamming combat arts more than I (due to faster recast timers on many attacks) the mana usage on the Assassin combat arts is such that we end up fairly close for power usage in the long run. Rangers post-CU seem to be able to get away with far less power usage than either of the Swashbuckler or Assassin. After LU16 the Assassins can get away with slightly lessened power usage due to some damage output improvements.<BR><BR>Our swashbuckler is outfitted with excellent equipment and almost all of his tier 5 master spells, this may make up for some of the damage discrepancies between the DPS you are reporting and what he posts regularly. While xping in the mid-50s he could routinely carry a group with respect to damage output with encounters dying quickly enough for him to post numbers over 1k DPS.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>almost all t5 master /drool, my only T5 master is my de-agro skill shadowslip.  Those masters + the high str from fabled(i'm guessing you mean fabled?) equipment would definately account for the damage, as The only fabled i have is the fake fabled bracer from poets palace....I say fake cause they are comparable to cobalt bracers.</P> <P>Another factor, of course, would be the con of the mob, I was mostly hunting giants in POF at 56.<BR></P>

[deciever]

If assassinate was on a 5 or 3 minute timer, if deathly blade was on a 1 minute timer, and gorestrike was on a 30 second timer, I SWEAR it would put us where we need to be. <div></div>

[Demonskill]

<blockquote><hr>DonSavantx wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Demonskiller wrote:<BR><BR><BR>So u think assassin can just stand there and autoattack for great dmg? i constantly chain CA, stealth, backstab and such. My power usage can 100% garantee more than you, while my DPS atm only keeping around 400-500, consider I work so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] hard for the number too.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Where the hell did i say you could just sit there with autoattack.</P> <DIV>I am going by the fact that i use about twice the power of ANY predator class that I ever group with.  One, a ranger, outdamages me in about 9 out of 10 kills, and that one kill, i am guessing, would account for a time when some of his big damage skills are not in play.  This is with me using TWICE the power he does.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are factors out there besides damage that need to be taken into account.  If a swash can keep up in damage but uses twice the power of you, it will hurt the swash in the long run while you can still keep up your damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know what your definition of chaining combat arts are, but I have an art queued <EM><STRONG>at all times</STRONG> </EM>in a fight(non raid).  That is what I consider chaining arts non stop.  Do you do that in a fight?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>400-500 is a good number for your level, at your level i would hit about 350 on most fights, hitting up near 500 with inspired daring+hurricane+finess+ruthless cunning(ie. putting everything i had into it)  when fighting groups of mobs, or just around 400 with inspired daring but no group mobs.   This was with dualwielding imbued cobalt weapons and almost full cobalt armor, + mostly adept3s, going all out chaining combat arts non stop.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Numbers may be off as I am going by memory.  </DIV><p>Message Edited by DonSavantx on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:37 AM</span><hr></blockquote>There you were talking about RANGER. we all know RANGER doesn't have any power issue at all. our power usage is FAR FAR FAR more than ranger, that's why we are saying we got power issue. If you use 2x the power from ranger that's very impressive. We use way more than that.Oh also I am using all adept 3 spells and full cobalt.I've grouped with an assassin the other day, was parsing every fight, same level, I was doing 400-500, he was doing 200-300. but all that depends on if you work hard or not. I chain cast CA, and most of my CA are grey out (yes i do). Except for the last 10 mins i falling asleep and i start going back to 200-300 dps LOL

[khalysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <HR> <FONT color=#ffff00>you can always go get a stun poison if you really want more stuns.  To be honest though the last two nights as I have been soloing I really havent needed a secondary stun.  The higher proc rate has really made poisons and weapons go off a ton.  High dd/low dot dmg poisons keep firing and inflicting mass damage on the low hp solo mobs.  Even on high yellows I was killing things off pretty fast.  Paralyzing strike would be much better as a stun/knockback in my opinion but even then it really wouldnt give you much extra in the solo situation because again the kill speed is so quick now.</FONT> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Comming from someone that pretty much took off with thier old guilds bank, telling everyone to go out and buy stun poisons because our class can't cut it on it's own is totally unacceptable....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Listen Khalysta, you have not played your Assassin in ages, quit comming here and telling everyone that plays EVERY day that they do not know what they are talking about...  You havn't even hit that point where all of your fabled gear you have has become WORTHLESS (armor only good for 15 levels, T5 Fabled = worthless after ~ level 55) and you have to downgrade your gear just to get some of your mitigation back..   Leveling from 54 to 55 took my defense from 36 down to 24, I have only just finially got it back up in the 35 range... That still means that instead of progressing with my 10 new levels, I was only set further back than when I started...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You really need to play more than just the last 2 nights, if you want to come here and tell people they don't know what they are talking about...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I didnt tell anyone they don't know what they are talking about.  I was saying stuns are available to anyone that might want one for a price of course.  To be honest my fabled is worthless at 51 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I can make myself a set of cobalt one of these days and be far better off on mitigation than I currently am and cobalt weapons would also have higher proc damage than my current weapons. Doing that will further help me out with soloing than the ease of how it is now.  The point of the last two nights reference though was to the patch which wasn't live last week as far as I can tell and thus procs weren't doing nearly the damage they did last week.  Soloing post patch versus pre-patch is far easier now and I just don't see the point of needing extra stuns to solo whether you are level 25 or 100 with these changes.   The higher proc rate is making the high dd poisons better now and if you use the t6 ones that 300something per proc which will do quite a bit of damage to a solo mob and combine that with imbue procs and you just tear the mobs apart now without any need to do 2-3 stealth attacks.

[Demonskill]

sorry forgot to add i use legendary T5 poison too, but i don't use indium arrows cuz they cost WAY too much.<p>Message Edited by Demonskiller on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:44 PM</span>

[dea]

<span><blockquote><hr>DonSavantx wrote: <blockquote> <hr> deaks wrote:<span>Power usage problems aren't limited to the Swashbuckler class. Both before and after the combat update my Swashbuckler guildmate and I can easily burn our mana supply when not running in and out of an Epic fight, we ran empty at approximately the same time. After comparing power costs what we realized is that while he was spamming combat arts more than I (due to faster recast timers on many attacks) the mana usage on the Assassin combat arts is such that we end up fairly close for power usage in the long run. Rangers post-CU seem to be able to get away with far less power usage than either of the Swashbuckler or Assassin. After LU16 the Assassins can get away with slightly lessened power usage due to some damage output improvements.Our swashbuckler is outfitted with excellent equipment and almost all of his tier 5 master spells, this may make up for some of the damage discrepancies between the DPS you are reporting and what he posts regularly. While xping in the mid-50s he could routinely carry a group with respect to damage output with encounters dying quickly enough for him to post numbers over 1k DPS.</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>almost all t5 master /drool, my only T5 master is my de-agro skill shadowslip.  Those masters + the high str from fabled(i'm guessing you mean fabled?) equipment would definately account for the damage, as The only fabled i have is the fake fabled bracer from poets palace....I say fake cause they are comparable to cobalt bracers.</p> <p>Another factor, of course, would be the con of the mob, I was mostly hunting giants in POF at 56.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>After the orange-patch we tended to keep to yellow mobs as a rule. Generally the cyclops or giant camps in PoF. As for Masters, we still run Spirits of the Lost regularly; aside from a handful of master's that our Swash bought in a week-long binge when he came into some plat from a master sale, a good number of them came from raiding SotL. We got 3 Swash masters in one run last week (1 Wizard and 1 Assassin as well), they are all up on the broker because he already has them. I encourage you get farming that place, it drops Swash masters far more often than anything else in my experience -- well except for Murderous Rake, we have resorted to selling those to the merchant when they drop.</span><div></div>

[Graton]

<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:If assassinate was on a 5 or 3 minute timer, if deathly blade was on a 1 minute timer, and gorestrike was on a 30 second timer, I SWEAR it would put us where we need to be. <div></div><hr></blockquote> if where we need to be is out of power , i agree. without power consumption being looked at, changing recast timers would simply makes us the most annoying class in norrath. "hold pulls again man, backstabba is lop again. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] do we keep inviting this guy?"</span><div></div>

[deciever]

<span><blockquote><hr>Graton wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>deciever69 wrote:If assassinate was on a 5 or 3 minute timer, if deathly blade was on a 1 minute timer, and gorestrike was on a 30 second timer, I SWEAR it would put us where we need to be. <div></div><hr></blockquote> if where we need to be is out of power , i agree. without power consumption being looked at, changing recast timers would simply makes us the most annoying class in norrath. "hold pulls again man, backstabba is lop again. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] do we keep inviting this guy?"</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I'd say that would be better than the way things are now. But.. I agree.</span><div></div>

[Tealdea]

<div></div>I killed a yellow ^ creature last night in LT, had 80% hp left, assassinate hit. The second one, DB was blocked, mob kicked my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]... got him down to about 95% Third time, he killed me as I was climbing a wall running like a scared chicken... Yes, on the wall, climbing... dead... just... Looked at me and said "YOU AINT GOING NOWHERE PUNK!!" 5 hours after this post I was looking arround and came accross this.... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=31546 Dev posted as the second person on this thread dealing in the art of iksar's. Atleast the art team is drinking their coffee and getting their job done <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Tealdeath on <span class=date_text>11-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:42 AM</span>