SoE and messing with Rangers

[littleli]

<DIV>Is it me or is it everytime I see a LU coming into play sony is messing with Rangers? Just wondering because this time there changing the way our Rain of Arrows works. We will no longer be able to cast it while running. I am just wondering. If this is going to be the way sony runs there business. I have to tell them its bad business to keep changing how your game dynamics works. If they have not noticed the number of rangers leaving the game. I would ask them to look into that. I have seen alot of Rangers change there class and stop playing there ranger due to Sony always changing something about us. I know some are not big changes. But thats beside the point. Its the constant changing that the real bother. </DIV> <DIV>Now I understand that sometimes you have to change certian things but come on. This is a bit much. Sony needs to take a step back and look at whats its doing here. Its seems as though the ranger community is becoming slim here and everyone blaming SoE for the changes for them leaving and all. But I am here to stay and I just want all the changing madness to stop. Or do one big change and leave it be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Smeac 70 Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Dark Horizon</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[PrinceThrakha]

<DIV>I agree completely.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reading up on the changes for LU24 in this forum we can see that some of the skills that make rangers good soloers are beeing nerfed. </DIV> <DIV>- The trap skill: active time reduction.</DIV> <DIV>- Rain of arrows: can no longer be fired while moving</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I get the message, SOE! </DIV> <DIV>You don't like soloing players.</DIV> <DIV>You want everyone to be bored to death looking for groups for hours or wasting huge amount of time on finding other players that are on exactly the same part of exactly the same quest as you. </DIV> <DIV>You want to take away every little bit of fun from the people playing rangers! </DIV> <DIV>Good work!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everquest 2 was supposedly both for sporadic and dedicate players, but so much for that...</DIV> <DIV>If it continues like this the slightest ingame achievement will take serveral hours. I don't have have time or patinece for that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SoE, remove these two nerfs immediately, and while you are at it make some more ranged spells fireable during movement. Your soloing players deserve it!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Woodstick</DIV> <DIV>level 62 Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Crushbone server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Guitar_Guru]

Rangers were never meant to be an "easy" class, and in my opinion Thorny Trap was one of the things that made Rangers that much easier to play, and that much easier to master.  This = not good. First off, look at Thorny Trap.  Allows for kiting. . . Allowing more ranged attacks to be used while moving.  Allows for kiting.  Now while SOE did nerf these things, they tried to regain some of the Ranger DPS by allowing Ranged Autattack to do more damage.  Combine this with Feral Instinct (or whatever it's called) and Steady Aim and your offensive stance, and you have some nice burst damage.  The Feral Instinct will even allow you to have good DPS while kiting, if that's what you like (which I do!) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I've noticed that ever since the big proc-nerf, SoE has been trying to counter nerfs with smaller un-nerfs, so that we fit into our own little speciality of dealing damage. Now if you think SoE doesn't like soloing players, look at Summoners!  Yeah, they're getting nerfed, but they'll still be a viable solo class!  Look at rangers and Assassins!  Even monks and bruisers!  SOE still likes solo classes, they're just pulling out a new play from the handbook <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[kartikeya]

Uh. The problem with that, Guitar_Guru, is that you've just gone and stated all the things they're nerfing to prevent kiting...and then pointed out the fact that they're giving us an arsenal that REQUIRES kiting to use. I don't mind which one they decide on, kiting or melee range fighting for soloing, but I'd very much like them to choose one or the other. As it stands, they're pushing more and more for kiting, putting all our damage on ranged, not usuable in close range, while at the same time taking away all the tools we have to keep the mobs at a distance to USE those abilities.

[littleli]

<P>Everyone thus far has a good point in this matter. While theses changes come and go. Its the fact that everytime they change us. We all have to learn how to work around the change. It should not be about every LU that Rangers have to go back to the drawing boards and figure out a way to fight again. I think that we should have more CA that stun or stiffle a target to allow us to range more often. Range is the main focus of Ranger. Thats our bread and butter. But if SoE wants use to be a melee class and stand toe to toe in a fight I think they need to change our class to Assissan. </P> <P>Can I get a developer here to input some good sound advice about what there furture plans are for rangers and where they see our class here in say 6 months to a year. I would like to know theses for some proper planning on my part. Thank you</P> <P> </P> <P>Smeac</P>

[Guitar_Guru]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>kartikeya wrote:<div></div>Uh. The problem with that, Guitar_Guru, is that you've just gone and stated all the things they're nerfing to prevent kiting...and then pointed out the fact that they're giving us an arsenal that REQUIRES kiting to use. I don't mind which one they decide on, kiting or melee range fighting for soloing, but I'd very much like them to choose one or the other. As it stands, they're pushing more and more for kiting, putting all our damage on ranged, not usuable in close range, while at the same time taking away all the tools we have to keep the mobs at a distance to USE those abilities.<hr></blockquote> Eck, never looked at it that way o.O What I meant was that Thorny Trap was getting nerfed, so we have to rely less on kiting in that method.  Also, that IF our ranged CA's were able to be used on the move, then we could kite more.  The Arsenal was more a point to show that when one or two aspects get nerfed, we have other combat arts that can supplement a substitution.  Like I can currently get 6 ranged combat arts off assuming nothing get's parried.  I could kite if I wanted too. I could also melee if I wanted to, though it's not quite as effective since our speciality is using a bow.  The way it looks, is like we're supposed to mow down the mob's main bank of HP in the pull, getting off 2 or 3 bow arts, then either stunning / snaring to back up and do more, OR finishing off the rest with melee attacks.  Pretty much, just that we have variety, and ways to tackle opponents in other situations in case one or two particular spells get nerfed.  Sorry I kinda messed up my idea >.< **Edit: But then again, I'm only level 41, so take my thoughts with a pinch of salt.  I probly dont even know what I'm talking about, lol. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Guitar_Guru on <span class=date_text>06-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:53 PM</span>

[kartikeya]

<P>Nah, you do. Soloing at 41 and soloing at 69 though are pretty different, that's all. As it stands, my melee abilities are pretty [Removed for Content] poor, AND they eat up my power like you wouldn't believe. ^ solo mobs, and KoS is full of them, are a royal pain in the rear. If it's an even con, I HAVE to kite it. No other option. It will eat me alive, even in defensive. And when I say kiting, I'm not just talking the root and shoot, I'm talking running around in little ninny circles firing auto attack while my root and stun are down. I don't particularly care for that method of soloing, and it's incredibly dangerous in the tightly mob packed islands, but it's the only way to stay out of the red when soloing a solo mob with a single up arrow. This goes to a slightly lesser extent to solo grouped encounters.  I can stand there and melee them, but I won't have too much health and absolutely no power by the time I'm through.</P> <P>So really, being someone who solos constantly, I'd like SOE to make up their minds on how they want us to do this. Let me fire my arrows in melee range, or boost my melee skills. Otherwise, leave my tools for actually using my primary means of damage in a solo fight well enough alone, for pete's sake.</P>

[mik]

Nice SOE, nerf our solo abilities even more. Yeah, rangers are overpowered cause they can solo nameds in TT <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Even though monks and bruisers can solo every named in SoS (constantly farming that zone), they can get to every corner of SoS thanks to their FD. And illusionists and coercers can easily solo yellow nameds (with ^^^) in Bonemire. And i didnt mention conjurors who can solo the whole Nest. Definately, ranger solo abilities are overpowered, we can solo lvl 64 nameds max (and only using stun poison) <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. <div></div>

[PrinceThrakha]

<P>Yes, what is the plan, game devs?</P> <P>Obviously the nerfs don't have much effect on group encounters.</P> <P>Thorny trap: In a group we would typically have a tank to take the damage and we would not rely on a trap to root multiple targets.<BR>Storm/Rain of Arrows: what would be the point of running and shooting at mulriple targets in a group encounter?</P> <P>So... any explaination about "balancing the game" is BS. Clearly solo players are beeing targeted.<BR><BR>What is the point you are trying to make, SoE? We are not allowed to enjoy ourselves?</P> <P>Woodstick<BR>level 62 Ranger<BR>Crushbone server</P> <P> </P>

[ary]

<P>I just got thorny trap this week and tried it out today in Majdul.I am 52 and the guards were 54. I took on 4 guards and they stood rooted till I dispatched three of them. That is pretty overpowered compared to everything I currently have. I was shocked at how effective it was. I have never managed to lock down a group like that.I pulled with storm and then the trap kept them rooted for so long.</P> <P>I can understand why they are nefing it.It is a pretty powerful soloing tool.I am rather sad to see it go since I only started using it today and was not able to try it out much and it will be gone tomorrow.</P> <P>Any idea how much it is reduced too.I feel like such a loser I just got it and it will be reduced tomorrow plus I piad a fortune for the Adept I.</P><p>Message Edited by aryel on <span class=date_text>06-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:30 AM</span>

[BSbon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kartikeya wrote:<BR> <P>Nah, you do. Soloing at 41 and soloing at 69 though are pretty different, that's all. As it stands, my melee abilities are pretty [Removed for Content] poor, AND they eat up my power like you wouldn't believe. ^ solo mobs, and KoS is full of them, are a royal pain in the rear. If it's an even con, I HAVE to kite it. No other option. It will eat me alive, even in defensive. And when I say kiting, I'm not just talking the root and shoot, I'm talking running around in little ninny circles firing auto attack while my root and stun are down. I don't particularly care for that method of soloing, and it's incredibly dangerous in the tightly mob packed islands, but it's the only way to stay out of the red when soloing a solo mob with a single up arrow. This goes to a slightly lesser extent to solo grouped encounters.  I can stand there and melee them, but I won't have too much health and absolutely no power by the time I'm through.</P> <P>So really, being someone who solos constantly, I'd like SOE to make up their minds on how they want us to do this. Let me fire my arrows in melee range, or boost my melee skills. Otherwise, leave my tools for actually using my primary means of damage in a solo fight well enough alone, for pete's sake.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>a white con ^ mob should be very hard to defeat solo. kudos for being able to do it.

[Teksun]

I personally believe an even con ^ should be soloable with AD3 and legendary. I also believe an even ^^^ should be soloable with mostly fabled and masters.It shouldn't be easy, but it should be doable.<div></div>

[BSbon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mikk1 wrote:<BR>Nice SOE, nerf our solo abilities even more. Yeah, rangers are overpowered cause they can solo nameds in TT <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Even though monks and bruisers can solo every named in SoS (constantly farming that zone), they can get to every corner of SoS thanks to their FD. And illusionists and coercers can easily solo yellow nameds (with ^^^) in Bonemire. And i didnt mention conjurors who can solo the whole Nest.<BR>Definately, ranger solo abilities are overpowered, we can solo lvl 64 nameds max (and only using stun poison) <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>SOE is trying to keep solo rangers from taking out ^^ and ^^^ mobs. that is why they nerf rangers. summoners are getting a pretty hefty DPS reduction. with the stun nerfs monks and bruisers will have a harder time soloing heroics. i've never seen a illusionist or coercer solo a yellow ^^^. in fact when my coercer charms a ^^^ it loses it ^^^ness and gets a butt whooping from another ^^^ and with LU24 all the nukes are having their DPS reduced. and you dont even mention wizards for some reason but it doesn't matter this board is for rangers. if you'd like to ask why these classes solo ^^^ i would recommend you ask on their boards.

[BSbon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teksun wrote:<BR>I personally believe an even con ^ should be soloable with AD3 and legendary. I also believe an even ^^^ should be soloable with mostly fabled and masters.<BR><BR>It shouldn't be easy, but it should be doable.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have to disagree with this. the description of a ^^^ says suitable for a group.

[mik]

I only wanted to say that this game is completely imbalanced at least when talking about solo abilities. Rangers are much less imbalanced in that sense than many other classes. Cause to kill any non-grey named ranger need a lot of open space without adds and this is not the case in KoS. Now i regret about choosing ranger, there are a lot of classes with much greater solo abilities (and soloing hard mob is fun) and greater dps and utility for raids. Groups are not fun for me - all instances became very boring long time ago. I will leave this game as soon as there will be good alternative. And yes, i saw many times when coercers and illusionists solo such mobs as Carnovangian, Humator Harridan, Carrion Mandragora, etc. These yellow mobs kill me in 3 sec. <div></div>

[arkkon]

<DIV>I'd really like a dev to state what they are planning for rangers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>addressing arrow problems?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>addressing our lack of damage?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>why are we still able to use natural selection on the move?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>why the devs who make the new ranger spells spend 5 minutes on them and move on to a  "funner class"</DIV>

[SpiralDown]

I think the thought behind storm of arrows change has nothing to do with pvp or soloing... if you look at it, that is our best CA, but is the least resticted (sniper shot is way more restricted, has a huge cast time and 5 times the recast timer).  lesser shots cant be used on the move and any that can do near the dmg or more need to be used while stealth.  natural selection still being shot on the move probably has to do with the stealth restriction... also, its a full blown aoe: so a ranger is just hurling a bunch of arrows in the direction of the baddies and hoping they hit, easier to fire while running if ya dont gotta aim. It has to do with reality. not the reality of the real world, but the reality of the game.... in the reality of the game (which is all that matters) powerful ranged attacks cant be used on the move without other restrictions applied. Not saying I agree with or like the change, but this change is minor.  <div></div>

[Teksun]

From waht I gathered at fan faire, none of the DEV's play a Ranger. Why should they care? Unless of course we are able to compete with there favorite class we are ignored...I really don't care. Let them nerf us to kingdom come, as long as I have my bow, and belong to my guild that would keep me around even if I couldn't do damage, i'll be happy...<div></div>

[Mirdo]

<DIV>Bongo,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have seen an Illusionist solo ^^^ yellow mobs. Not too long ago they were one of the most effective solo classes in the game (but not the fastest). I'm not sure if they still are. The #24 changes to their damage spells might make the soloing of very tough heroics even less attractive for them than it is now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Many of the less well reported or class specific changes will place limits on the ability to solo heroics. It does seem to be a bit of a sub-theme to the control changes. I don't have a problem with it because I understand heroics are not intended to be soloe'd. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't wait for these changes to go live tpday so the speculation ends, the flame wars are battled out and the forums settle back down to to their natural state of low level grumbling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mirdo.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Mirdo on <span class=date_text>06-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:11 PM</span>

[jrisley69]

Honestly, i know that there's a lot of rangers out there that have problems with these nerfs and updates, but i have gotten to the point where i dont care anymore.  I've survived 24 updates, countless nerfs or un-nerfs, whatever it is.  True i did miss the golden days and thouroughly took advantage of them but i just play my guy.  If Sony throws me a curveball, i switch my batting style.  I find it keeps me on my toes now and gives me a chance to try new strategies.  The day we all accept the fact that we're already nerfed is the day we can function as a ranger and do our thing.<div></div>

[BSbon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mikk1 wrote:<BR>I only wanted to say that this game is completely imbalanced at least when talking about solo abilities. Rangers are much less imbalanced in that sense than many other classes. Cause to kill any non-grey named ranger need a lot of open space without adds and this is not the case in KoS. Now i regret about choosing ranger, there are a lot of classes with much greater solo abilities (and soloing hard mob is fun) and greater dps and utility for raids. Groups are not fun for me - all instances became very boring long time ago. <BR>I will leave this game as soon as there will be good alternative.<BR>And yes, i saw many times when coercers and illusionists solo such mobs as Carnovangian, Humator Harridan, Carrion Mandragora, etc. These yellow mobs kill me in 3 sec.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>i'm assuming when you say non-grey named you mean a ^^^ named that's green or higher. well, you're not supposed to solo these. If other classes can solo these then that is a topic for their boards. as long as we can solo level appropriate solo content and not a ^^ or ^^^ then we are balanced. i've soloed all the way to 53 and still have little difficulty taking down solo mobs or groups of solo content mobs. if you think swithing to another class will allow you to solo ^^^ mobs you may be right, but it wont last forever and then you'll be upset at another nerf. best to play the class you like and just accept that eventually no one will solo ^^^.

[Teksun]

<div></div>Ok Bongo, just curious, not a rant. I know with standard equipment i can kill even con, even yellow mobs. When/if I do get loaded with fabled and masters (i just got my first ever fabled gear EVER last week), what is a reasonable mob for me to take down? Green ^^^, green^^, white^. IMHO when someone is loaded with fable and masters, they ARE heroic (ie ^^^) and SHOULD be able to take out the same. It shouldn't be EASY, but doable.<div></div>

[BSbon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teksun wrote:<BR> Ok Bongo, just curious, not a rant. I know with standard equipment i can kill even con, even yellow mobs. When/if I do get loaded with fabled and masters (i just got my first ever fabled gear EVER last week), what is a reasonable mob for me to take down? Green ^^^, green^^, white^. IMHO when someone is loaded with fable and masters, they ARE heroic (ie ^^^) and SHOULD be able to take out the same. It shouldn't be EASY, but doable.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>if having the best of the best gear for your level makes you a ^^^ then the message that says suitable for a group should change to suitable for soloing. when it says suitable for solo play then you should be able to solo it. if it doesn't say that then you should not be able to solo it unless it's grey or very green.

[LoreLady]

<div></div>You guys forget - that we got a HUGE boost to solo. - Point blank shot now has a recast of 45 seconds. This makes soloing alot easier for me, and duels even easier.Only thing id really like to see though - is knocking back a mob like we do with PVP with this ability <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by LoreLady on <span class=date_text>06-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:59 PM</span>