OK, it's time...

[ColbieDtreehugger]

<div></div><div>Ok I have been playing a ranger since launch day, and I played a ranger in EQ! since launch. SO i would say I knwo the rangers pretty much in and out. I have lived and died a ranger, and I always will. WHAT THE HELL ARE PEOPLE SMOKING! or what am I smoking? I had doubts about LU21, and now I am  SEVERELY dissappointed. Well I am the #1 ranger in our guild, one of the top 2 guilds on the server (we go back and forth) so I get my masters, I get my gear and I get my groups. in T6 before the changes, I was BY far the highest DPS'er in the guild, even over the other rangers. T7 hehe after the so called "fix" I cant even out DPS our MT. I'm averageing about 650-700 DPSextended where as our swashie, 1100 DPSextended, our assassin with no poisons up, 1000 DPSextended, Brawler and monk about 900 DPSextened and they're not even trying. Keep in mind during my fights my STR and AGI are maxed, my ranged is about 398, and I have ALL adept 3's with about 12 T7 masters. I have  4 4 4 81 down the agility line...ALL offensive! WHERE AM I GOING WRONG! The biggest weakness I see, correct me if I am wrong, but SoA used to read 900-1200 a shot plus the chance for another arrow, now it's reading 600-800? yeah that's a HUGE part not to mention it's broke, but what else? I mean come on. If we had ANYTHING to provide to a group or raid, I could understand, but the predator class is simply DPS, that's our job in a raid. Thought, feedback, compliants, just NO [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING AT GM's and DEV's. They do what they can, it's a group not 1 person running the game.</div><div> </div><div>As mentioned below, we buy poisons, arrows, and can't move around. Our procs are the damage raiting on bows as on weapons yet other scouts are DWing, so rather than 5% chance to proc 211-425, they have 10% really cause they're carrying 2 of them. I understand the whole thing with kiting in PVP but come on now atleast give us a couple steps or something. I need that one step to get off CotW or one step back to activate SoA or 1 step foreward to get off Triple Volley, bleh! I have never been so ready to quit the game! But i'm trying to fix it rather than quit. I hope this isn't a look at as a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but more of a "look at what you can do"</div><p>Message Edited by ColbieDtreehugger on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:18 AM</span></p>

[sjaste]

<div></div>Well said. The reason all thoughs wizards believe they should be number 1 DPS in game is that they are limited to very light armour...... Ok heres the rangers reasons (feel free to add to it as you wish) We have absolutely no group benifical spells, unless you count pathfinding but everyone 55+ has carpets or horses nowadays, We have to pay for ammo and poisons to do our damage, sure we can summon up to 65 arrows every 10 minutes, well in a good group I can burn through 200 every 10 minutes so there is a bit of a problem there. Thirdly (i'm sure there's others but I just woke up) we can not for the life of us solo anything unless we got a huge open field with no argo mobs which if anyone has been to any zone of late doesn't really exsist enough to do any solo quests. I am currently a level 64 ranger, the other day I pulled a level 60^ but I was restricted on movement and since cheap shot would only last 2 seconds I could not do much moverability, so I pulled stealthy fire and fought melee the rest of the way, I died =( died to a mob that was on 70% health before engagement, died to a mob 4 levels below me, I was ashamed, so I went back (BTW this is not the first time this happend to me) and pulled with sniper shot, triple fire and then was engaged mob at 40%ish now I fought and came out with 1 bub of hp left, 1!!!!!!!!!!!! after using our highest bow skill that is ment to be safed for nameds. something neeeds to be done and soon before SOE looses any more players.

[Mirdo]

<div></div><p>Well, I've not raided with the update yet but SoA has been less than useful for a lot of Rangers since #20 - so no news there really.</p><p>Biggest boost for me so far is timing my biggest hits along with focus aim - this really is a key tactic for me now to increase DPS. With the reduced recast on Focus and M1 devit, culling the weak and M2 stealthy fire all possible inside the 10 seconds, a few criticals on those CA's = huge damage. I can pretty much rely on an autoattack hit of 1500+ during that time too.</p><p>I was in a fast moving group last night so haven't played around with casting timers yet to see if there's a better damage option during that 10 secs but I'll be experimenting over the weekend.</p><p>I'll also try and hook up with a friendly woodworker for some rare arrows - I was burning through the reclaimed last nigth.</p><p>I had to get back into the habit of hitting my de-agro spells again last night - was ripping stuff off the tank if not careful. This is autoattacking with my ironwood bow still - I can't wait to see the improvements with something like Grizzle's.</p><p>We'll be raiding next Tuesday - I'll be interested to see how the changes have affected my raid output.</p><p>Mirdo.</p>

[Mirdo]

<div></div><p>Sjastein,</p><p>What sort of mob was it? Did you use Thorny trap on incoming to get off another 1 ot 2 CA's? Did you pop focus fire before initiating first bowshot? Were you running poisons? When in melee range did you pop off brutal instinct and our self haste? I can't see how you can die to a ^ 4 levels lower with proper tactics. Yes cheap shot is a 2 second stun vs a ^ but if you don't have the timing to pull the longlbalde+ emberstrike combo from that our agility line stun should give long enough. </p><p>With the higher dot we have and the new short duration root I can't see how soloing a ^ mob should be an issue now - particularly not one 4 levels lower.</p><p>Mirdo.</p>

[ColbieDtreehugger]

<div></div><div>Well mirdo keep in mind what kind of tank you're pulling off of...is he geared right, is he master'd/AD3'd, does he know his role, Defensive stance or offensive stance. You may laugh but people actually dont think about that stuff. The monk and brawler are pulling off the #1 tank on the server. I can't do it when I TRY. Also message above...he said he was snared so he couldn't get away.</div><p>Message Edited by ColbieDtreehugger on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:23 AM</span></p>

[Mirdo]

<div></div><div></div><p>Hi Colbie,</p><p>He was one of our raid tanks until he got his Troub up high enough to support our caster / dps groups. He's all A3 minimum and i've grouped with him many times before.</p><p>He spent 20 to 30 mins of pulls playing with amends on myself and the brigand to find the best place for it. Once I was back in the habit of using de-agro CA's it was best on the brig with groups and slightly more effective on me single target. Because of the group/single mob mix he left it on the brig and poked me when I ripped the odd mob from him (and a fast elude normally sent the mob scurrying back to him).</p><p>The point I was really trying to make was that, for me at least, the de-agro skills have a place in my routine again because my DPS is definately up by a decent amount. Unfortunately I didn't parse last night so can't quantify it.</p><p>Edit: Missed the line about the other poster dying to the ^ mob. The mob was 4 levels lower - it's perfectly possible to take a mob like that down with melee skills only IF you bother to run brutal instinct and self haste as well as getting off our frontal combat arts. I don't know, maybe he didn't stance change when he was down to say 50% health after the initial bow shots or something? Sorry but really can't see how a decently played ranger can't take out a ^ 4 levels lower after getting in a couple of big CA's at the start of the fight.</p><p>Mirdo</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Mirdo on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:23 AM</span></p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ColbieDtreehugger wrote:<div></div><div>Ok I have been playing a ranger since launch day, and I played a ranger in EQ! since launch. SO i would say I knwo the rangers pretty much in and out. I have lived and died a ranger, and I always will. WHAT THE HELL ARE PEOPLE SMOKING! or what am I smoking? I had doubts about LU21, and now I am  SEVERELY dissappointed. Well I am the #1 ranger in our guild, one of the top 2 guilds on the server (we go back and forth) so I get my masters, I get my gear and I get my groups. in T6 before the changes, I was BY far the highest DPS'er in the guild, even over the other rangers. T7 hehe after the so called "fix" I cant even out DPS our MT. I'm averageing about 650-700 DPSextended where as our swashie, 1100 DPSextended, our assassin with no poisons up, 1000 DPSextended, Brawler and monk about 900 DPSextened and they're not even trying. Keep in mind during my fights my STR and AGI are maxed, my ranged is about 398, and I have ALL adept 3's with about 12 T7 masters. I have  4 4 4 81 down the agility line...ALL offensive! WHERE AM I GOING WRONG! The biggest weakness I see, correct me if I am wrong, but SoA used to read 900-1200 a shot plus the chance for another arrow, now it's reading 600-800? yeah that's a HUGE part not to mention it's broke, but what else? I mean come on. If we had ANYTHING to provide to a group or raid, I could understand, but the predator class is simply DPS, that's our job in a raid. Thought, feedback, compliants, just NO [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING AT GM's and DEV's. They do what they can, it's a group not 1 person running the game.</div><div> </div><div>As mentioned below, we buy poisons, arrows, and can't move around. Our procs are the damage raiting on bows as on weapons yet other scouts are DWing, so rather than 5% chance to proc 211-425, they have 10% really cause they're carrying 2 of them. I understand the whole thing with kiting in PVP but come on now atleast give us a couple steps or something. I need that one step to get off CotW or one step back to activate SoA or 1 step foreward to get off Triple Volley, bleh! I have never been so ready to quit the game! But i'm trying to fix it rather than quit. I hope this isn't a look at as a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but more of a "look at what you can do"</div><p>Message Edited by ColbieDtreehugger on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:18 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>OMG so your not the Number 1 DPSer in your guild anymore .. shock horror !! get a grip ..oh and btw bows proc a lot more than DW so it even out

[LoreLady]

<span><blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<blockquote><hr>ColbieDtreehugger wrote:<div>Ok I have been playing a ranger since launch day, and I played a ranger in EQ! since launch. SO i would say I knwo the rangers pretty much in and out. I have lived and died a ranger, and I always will. WHAT THE HELL ARE PEOPLE SMOKING! or what am I smoking? <font color="#ff3300">I had doubts about LU21, and now I am  SEVERELY dissappointed. Well I am the #1 ranger in our guild, one of the top 2 guilds on the server (we go back and forth) so I get my masters, I get my gear and I get my groups. in T6 before the changes,</font> I was BY far the highest DPS'er in the guild, even over the other rangers.<font color="#ff3300">T7 hehe after the so called "fix" I cant even out DPS our MT. I'm averageing about 650-700 DPSextended where as our swashie, 1100 DPSextended, our assassin with no poisons up, 1000 DPSextended, Brawler and monk about 900 DPSextened and they're not even trying. Keep in mind during my fights my STR and AGI are maxed, my ranged is about 398, and I have ALL adept 3's with about 12 T7 masters. I have  4 4 4 81 down the agility line...ALL offensive! WHERE AM I GOING WRONG! </font>The biggest weakness I see, correct me if I am wrong, but SoA used to read 900-1200 a shot plus the chance for another arrow, now it's reading 600-800? yeah that's a HUGE part not to mention it's broke, but what else? I mean come on. If we had ANYTHING to provide to a group or raid, I could understand, but the predator class is simply DPS, that's our job in a raid. Thought, feedback, compliants, just NO [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING AT GM's and DEV's. They do what they can, it's a group not 1 person running the game.</div><div> </div><div>As mentioned below, we buy poisons, arrows, and can't move around. Our procs are the damage raiting on bows as on weapons yet other scouts are DWing, so rather than 5% chance to proc 211-425, they have 10% really cause they're carrying 2 of them. I understand the whole thing with kiting in PVP but come on now atleast give us a couple steps or something. I need that one step to get off CotW or one step back to activate SoA or 1 step foreward to get off Triple Volley, bleh! I have never been so ready to quit the game! But i'm trying to fix it rather than quit. I hope this isn't a look at as a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but more of a "look at what you can do"</div><p>Message Edited by ColbieDtreehugger on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:18 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>OMG so your not the Number 1 DPSer in your guild anymore .. shock horror !! get a grip ..oh and btw bows proc a lot more than DW so it even out<hr></blockquote>You are COMPLEATLY missing his point, take out this quote alone and this will explain exaccly why we are disapointed. That alone tells me something is VERY wrong if t2 and t3 DPS can outdamage someone with full a full line of AA's, and obviesly well geared.</span><span></span><div></div>

[Zodi]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>ColbieDtreehugger wrote:<div></div><div>Ok I have been playing a ranger since launch day, and I played a ranger in EQ! since launch. SO i would say I knwo the rangers pretty much in and out. I have lived and died a ranger, and I always will. WHAT THE HELL ARE PEOPLE SMOKING! or what am I smoking? I had doubts about LU21, and now I am  SEVERELY dissappointed. Well I am the #1 ranger in our guild, one of the top 2 guilds on the server (we go back and forth) so I get my masters, I get my gear and I get my groups. in T6 before the changes, I was BY far the highest DPS'er in the guild, even over the other rangers. T7 hehe after the so called "fix" I cant even out DPS our MT. I'm averageing about 650-700 DPSextended where as our swashie, 1100 DPSextended, our assassin with no poisons up, 1000 DPSextended, Brawler and monk about 900 DPSextened and they're not even trying. Keep in mind during my fights my STR and AGI are maxed, my ranged is about 398, and I have ALL adept 3's with about 12 T7 masters. I have  4 4 4 81 down the agility line...ALL offensive! WHERE AM I GOING WRONG! The biggest weakness I see, correct me if I am wrong, but SoA used to read 900-1200 a shot plus the chance for another arrow, now it's reading 600-800? yeah that's a HUGE part not to mention it's broke, but what else? I mean come on. If we had ANYTHING to provide to a group or raid, I could understand, but the predator class is simply DPS, that's our job in a raid. Thought, feedback, compliants, just NO [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING AT GM's and DEV's. They do what they can, it's a group not 1 person running the game.</div><div> </div><div>As mentioned below, we buy poisons, arrows, and can't move around. Our procs are the damage raiting on bows as on weapons yet other scouts are DWing, so rather than 5% chance to proc 211-425, they have 10% really cause they're carrying 2 of them. I understand the whole thing with kiting in PVP but come on now atleast give us a couple steps or something. I need that one step to get off CotW or one step back to activate SoA or 1 step foreward to get off Triple Volley, bleh! I have never been so ready to quit the game! But i'm trying to fix it rather than quit. I hope this isn't a look at as a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but more of a "look at what you can do"</div><p>Message Edited by ColbieDtreehugger on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:18 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Hmm.. on my raid the other last night our ranger was on the top 2 only surpased one time by our wizzie. I agree that rangers need more utility, but it has to come at cost of somethig else. ALso our assassin who is totally deck out was about 150dps short since he has to run in and our to avoid the nasty AOE's. Our scout easily smacked him without even going in meele. </p><p>Now please tell me what you think should be done. IT is pretty hard to balance a class that can do damage from a far distance with one that has to be in 'trenches fighting". I think you guys need more utility like only class with tracking, improve your snares, etc. Not everything can be DPS DPS DPS DPS.  I think more utility at the cost of DPS brings fun to your game style. Now please take in consideration that prior LU20 you guys were a broken class. The DPS was insane and outbalance if you look at LU21 to bring you back to that point, aint going to happen. You guys are out of the steroids and back to compete like everyone else CLEAN. UTILITY IS THE KEY TO FIX THIS ISSUE</p><p> </p><p>"WELCOME TO OUR WORLD THE GUARDIANS WORLD A WORLD WHEN YOU DONT HAVE AN IDEA [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] YOU ARE PLAYING YOUR CLASS FOR"</p><p>Message Edited by Zodian on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:50 AM</span></p>

[Mirdo]

<div></div><p>No, more utility is not the answer (and actually i can't see where the poster you replied to was asking for it ?). Classes in the game are broken down to specialise in specific tasks. Predators, that is assassins and Rangers are the Scout class centred around dealing damage. As such our utility should be low  - note this is SoE's vision of Rangers - one I happen to share - after all it was the original class description that swayed my decision to make a Ranger.</p><p>If I had wanted a scout class with more utility I would have picked Rogue or Bard - NOT predator. It's the same with caster classes - I made an Illusionst alt for crowd control (haha) and group utility - not be the best DPS caster class - I made a warlock for that back in Jan '05. It sounds like you play a tank - well I made a Brusier alt because I wanted a decent DPS tank.  If I wanted pure tanking and group protection I would have made a Guard.</p><p>Most Rangers have accepted that DPS won't return to to pre 20 levels (with good reason). Unfortunately some still can't accept that. I think they are in the minority now but you seem to be addressing the tone of your message to that minority - just let them fade away.</p><p>Most people haven't even had the chance to try and adapt to the latest changes yet, the calls of 'not enough' and 'no improvement' are happening way too soon for them to be coming from a fully informed position on the three aspects of soloing, grouping and raiding.</p><p>Mirdo.</p><p> </p>

[frigginfragged]

<div><blockquote><hr>sjastein wrote:<div></div>Well said. The reason all thoughs wizards believe they should be number 1 DPS in game is that they are limited to very light armour......<hr></blockquote>Same ole argument....  I agree that rangers have very little utility, but saying that you have to pay for your dps does not mean you should be the highest dps.  Every wizard in the game would be happy to pay for some dps boost (for that matter so would any t1 or t2 dps)</div>

[The_Wind]

The truth is, were not paying for a dps boost.  Were paying for DPS period.  Would wizards wan't to have to pay to do the same amount of damage they're doing now?  No, well neither do rangers.  The only problem is, we're required to.  Wizards can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and moan about only having cloth armor to our chain, but the reality is, the type of armor you wear doesn't matter, when you don't get hit.  However, rangers are matching Wizard dps at times, the way its meant to be.  The only problem is, its not costing the wizards anything to do it, whereas we have to pay for poisons, and sometimes arrows.  Tell me if you think this is fair to a ranger or assassin?<div></div>

[ColbieDtreehugger]

<div>BTW I just foudn that 2 t7 bows that are out there have a proc damage + summon 99 NICE arrows....I forget teh name of the bows. I do beleive they are raid only though. Kinda a endless quiver idea but not really.</div>

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><p>just gonna toss my 2 cents in as a swashbuckler and a friend of all dps alike.  at least imo correct me if im wrong but rangers are meant to be tier 1 dps in doing this you guys gave up the debuffs and group utility other scout classes have. </p><p>So yeah rangers need more love then you got in Lu21.  rangers should parse not only with the best but as the best in the game in most cases.    i dont know exactly how but please do.</p><p> </p><p> </p>