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View Full Version : Raxxyl's...who gets the Hate? (Or why do mobs love me?)


jawgo
03-02-2005, 07:02 PM
<DIV>I find myself getting agro for no reason whatsoever at times, actually quite a few times. Not because I buff during combat, not because I'm doing uber DPS, not for doing anything that I know of that is easily identifible for gaining agro. I mean, walking into a room behind my tank and getting jumped by an entire room of mobs for simply walking into the room.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its not limited to dungeons either. Routinely my group will be moving along and as we approach hostile creatures they immediately come to me- and I always stay behind my tank and allow him to engage first. Since its fresh in my mind I'll relay this story...last night in Nektropos we were going to engage Deidre. I was 4th in line going down the stairs. I had finished buffing on the top of staircase. Halfway down the stairs and before anyone had engaged the encounter, the entire population of the room bounded up the stairs to beat on me. I made it down the stairs and died. Agro was so screwy after the that it led to a total wipe. Why did they come to me? They just like woodie bards? I dunno, but it seems to me they would have gone after who they saw first, which was our tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After having seen this happen multiple times every night, my tank last night and I were trying to figure out why and he seems convinced its Raxxyls and has suggested I stop using it. I disagreed with him as I don't want to lose my main buff, but its hard to argue with the description on the spell being so vague. So I ask, who exactly gets the Hate gain in the spell description? Me, the caster? My target when I cast? The entire party? And if you have an answer, what is the basis for it? Not to be argumentative, but I really am interested in nailing down why I am drawing so much unintended, unexplained agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My tank had an interesting theory. I often times hang back somewhat to buff for a variety of reasons, but mainly its simply because we are moving as I need to refresh buffs, which cause them to lose my buffs due to proximity. He suggests that possibly what is happening is that when I move back closer to the group and my buffs appear in my group's buff bar, that even though I had already cast it, that mobs treat that as a freshly cast buff...and we all know the consequences of buffing during engagement. Anyways, I'd appreciate any input. Please note this is not an issue during combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rhutt</DIV> <DIV>Troub on Highkeep</DIV>

Caa
03-02-2005, 07:38 PM
<DIV>You get the hate, I'm pretty sure.</DIV>

Claritin
03-02-2005, 10:24 PM
<DIV>I already answered you on thescoutsanctuary.com</DIV>

jawgo
03-02-2005, 11:16 PM
<DIV>Sort of <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Check back...</DIV>

Swift_M
03-03-2005, 02:29 PM
As far as I can tell the hate is on you. The hate gain is so small that it almost never cuses any porblems. The times where it can lead to mobs rushing you at the start of a fight happens when the tank pulls without actually engaging or doing anything to the mob or encounter. Lets say your tank gets within aggro range of X mob and it starts to chase after him, once the next tick for song hits (every 6 seconds usually) the hate part of song triggers some hate on the mob because it has started going after the tank. So now you are o the top of the hate list. The thing is, one taunt from a tank, or even just a single melee swing usally is enough to get higher than the song hate. Even in this situation, usually it won't aggro the mob onto you right away anyway. Only in those very few times where the tank starts with zero aggro before the song ticks.Ridian McNight44 TroubadorNajena

Rikini
03-03-2005, 10:19 PM
<DIV>Claire said: "I already answered you on thescoutsanctuary.com"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unfortunatly that doesn't help some of us. I have a 28 Troubador main. I'd like to know this stuff. I only have time to peruse one set of forums, during breaks at work, and so they have to be these, as this is where I get the unfiltered posts by the developers. I'm glad there is another forum, I suppose, but if all the info is going there, those of us who would rather use these forums are at a loss.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Could you please post your answer here as well?</DIV>

Longspo
03-04-2005, 12:24 AM
<DIV>To address a different part of your OP, I'm only lvl 25 so don't know what buffs are down the road, but as it is now the only buff I can't cast while running is pathfinding, all the rest are songs which I can play while keeping up...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't noticed the same crazy aggro that you get from Raxxyl's but I will be on the lookout fer sure...</DIV>

Byto
03-04-2005, 03:00 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jawgoat wrote:<BR> <DIV>I find myself getting agro for no reason whatsoever at times, actually quite a few times. Not because I buff during combat, not because I'm doing uber DPS, not for doing anything that I know of that is easily identifible for gaining agro. I mean, walking into a room behind my tank and getting jumped by an entire room of mobs for simply walking into the room.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Same thing here.  Not in all instances though and I think the amount of time that passed since you last refreshed the buffs until someone entered aggro range has an impact on wether they'll all come rushin' to gank you.</P> <P>The first time I'd gone into RoV, we were doing writs that involved the clay crawlers and dust shrillers, so we alternated between the two hallways by the jail (with the centaurs).  I'd be back in the room with with jail, or even still in the other hallway and mobs from the opposite hall would bypass the entire group and come to me.  I'd assumed that it was because, as a halfling, I smelled like pie.<BR></P>

Jehannum
03-04-2005, 11:34 PM
<DIV>I think this sudden aggro is more the tank's fault than ours; I've grouped with some tanks who only lose aggro to me when I buff on inc (sometimes just to give 'em something to do <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  )  but I've also grouped with some tanks who have to pull incs off me nearly every pull.  I've always assumed it was based on damage aggro versus prox aggro, because the tanks who keep 'em off me almost always hurt them on the way in; I suspect the few times they don't, it's because of resists/misses rather than lack of trying.  I've also found, however, that if I'm really worried about drawing aggro I can drop songs, and chain up Soothing/Raxxyl/Raxxyl with literally no risk of pulling aggro.  It's likely more a case of others building more aggro than my two buffs in the 9 seconds it takes, but this mechanism has never failed to have us all buffed 6-9 seconds into the fight, with no troub aggro difficulty.  Something else I've noted is that it is, indeed, the 'tick' of our song refreshing which causes us the aggro.  I've watched pullers on long incs and seen, just as they hit my threshold and regain my buff, two of 3 mobs beeline for me - the third being the tank's primary (and damaged) target.  Usually it's not a biggie since I know to stay close to the tank and since Minstrel's plus two Raxxyl's allow me to eat some fairly heavy attacks without wincing (much) until the MT regains aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It also helps a lot if your group's healer is aware of how much troubadors taste like candy.</DIV>

Caa
03-05-2005, 02:41 AM
<DIV>My first post was pretty brief but here is what happens in my experience.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the tank proximity pulls, i.e. does not cause any damage, does not debuff, etc. the mobs you will get song aggro. Pretty straight forward. I don't think it has anything to do with Raxxyl's because honestly when my group wipes I'm not 2 or even 3rd to go down. (usually goes Tank > Assassin> Inquisitor > Necro ~ me in my group) So, I doubt the hate generated from this song is the source of the problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if you are getting these problems, just try having your tank cast his taunt to pull, or use a bow.</DIV>

Gumba
03-11-2005, 02:30 AM
<DIV>Taunt Pull is the way to go.  More importantly GROUP Taunt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If Tank only taunts one in a group - they generate the hate with the one - and the others will still come to the Troub.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Same applies to arrow pulls.  That generates hate with the one being attacked and other mobs in the group will still come to the Troub.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a Tank pulls in any manner other than Group Taunt, they will havve to group taunt mobs anyhow.</DIV>