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View Full Version : Dirge with a question for you 50 troubadors concerning defense rating.


Xanus
02-16-2005, 05:59 PM
I don't know if any of you have taken the time to look at your skills menu but I have a question concerning it. You know, the menu you bring up when you hit "L" in the game. You'll notice the menu gives a long list of skills like slashing, medium armor, ballads, defense etc. I'm mainly just concerned with the defense skill for now and would like some input from a 50 troubador with adept or better skills if possible on this. If a troubador could do this for me I'd really appreciate it. What I want to know is how much you guys can add to the defense skill playing a certain song/ability line up. Ok here's what I'd like to know. When you play Invigorating Opus(adept or better), Swan Song(adept or better), and then throw in on top of those your short duration parry buff ability called "Graceful Avoidance" by how much has your defense skill been raised compared to what it normally sits at? If you could give me a hard number there it would really help me out.

Vermillio
02-16-2005, 09:43 PM
-------------------------<p>Message Edited by Vermillionn on <span class=date_text>02-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:56 PM</span>

Bister
02-17-2005, 03:31 PM
as a lvl 50, when i play my def buffs heres the deal... my little noob on songsters luck takes me from 250 to 257... my brand new ones like Niv's Song of Fortune (trait selection, came as Adept 2 i believe) provides the incredible boost over my teens song all the way to 258, for 1 huge whopping point of difference, Swans Song Adept 1 takes me to the same 258 (admittedly my songsters luck is a master 1, but uhhh its like 35 lvls old lol)Gracefull Avoidance can add 21 points to those numbers for a 30 sec spurt here and there but is basically a ohh heck i got aggro, herlp!!! kinda song279 for the grand total

Cool Bree
02-17-2005, 07:03 PM
<DIV>281 with adepts1</DIV>

Xanus
02-19-2005, 05:05 PM
<blockquote><hr>Bistered wrote:as a lvl 50, when i play my def buffs heres the deal... my little noob on songsters luck takes me from 250 to 257... my brand new ones like Niv's Song of Fortune (trait selection, came as Adept 2 i believe) provides the incredible boost over my teens song all the way to 258, for 1 huge whopping point of difference, Swans Song Adept 1 takes me to the same 258 (admittedly my songsters luck is a master 1, but uhhh its like 35 lvls old lol)Gracefull Avoidance can add 21 points to those numbers for a 30 sec spurt here and there but is basically a ohh heck i got aggro, herlp!!! kinda song279 for the grand total<hr></blockquote>I'm a little confused so forgive me, but I'm trying to understand what you are saying. I apologize for not being more specifc or detailed in exactly the information I'm looking for. So here goes again and hopefully this time I can relay in a better manner the exact information I'm looking for. Ok...First off, let me start off by asking what your defense skill under the skills menu is at UNBUFFED. Generally it should be 250 at lvl 50 unless you took a racial trait that would add to it in some way. Now that you have that baseline number to work with tell me how high you can get that number to if you play all three of your HIGHEST upgrade songs that affect the defense skill.(i.e. Invigorating Opus - haste, Swan Song - luck line and better than your specialty one if you upgrade it, and Graceful Avoidance- short duration parry buff that also increases defense skill)Now that you done that tell me what lvl the songs are. (example: My swan's song is adept1, graceful avoidance is app4, and my Invigorating opus is adept3, etc.)Bascially what I'm trying to figure out is how high a troubador can buff their defense skill up to. I'd also like to know by how much each of these songs by themselves add individually to the defense skill( for example, I'm pretty sure your short duration parry buff will add around 4 defense skill. what confused me in your original post is you seemed to say it was adding 21 or at least that was how it came off to me. Maybe it is adding 21 I don't know but that really seems out of whack. You also did not mention what if any effect that your haste song that adds to defense was doing. Was that because it did nothing or just an oversight?)I hope I was a bit more specific in what information I'm looking for this time and I really do appreciate you guys doing this for me. I'm mainly trying to figure out how many points of defense you guys can add to the defense skill from baseline and if upgrading certain songs would help it increase even more(like say going from adept1 Swan song to adept3 swan song adding a few more points to the defense skill as a result of the upgrade.)P.S. By the way your short duration parry buff can be made to last close to 60 seconds instead of the usual 30. Just click it again right before it goes off your maintained window and it will refresh the timer on the maintained window. By the way that's quite a jump there to 281 defense skill guys. Dayum!You guys should have no problems at all soloing low double tierd blues and greens with a defense rating like that.<p>Message Edited by Xanusus on <span class=date_text>02-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:52 AM</span>

Tharn
02-22-2005, 02:03 AM
<DIV>The low level parry increase skill does not add to the defense skill at all... it increases the parry skill by 5 for 30 sec.</DIV> <DIV>Songster's takes 2 concentration and raises my defense by 5.</DIV>

Xanus
02-22-2005, 07:48 PM
Thanks tharnax. when you get the higher version of your parry buff(graceful avoidance) it will add to your defense skill. That's one of the reasons I directed my questions at the lvl 50 troubadors. you may have noticed that as you lvl your songs/abilties become more potent. That's also the reason I directed my questions to the 50 troubadors. when you first get songs/abilities they con orange to you. But, as you gain a few more lvls(without even upgrading the song from app1) that song/ abiltiy will increase in effectiveness as in giving more str or maybe more agi or adding 1 more point to defense than what it did when you first got it. That's why I'm trying to get a lvl 50's perspective who has adept or better songs to get a more accurate picture of how much they can add. You also may have noticed that you now have a 50 guardian coming to this forum and poking your brains for the same information. I know right now a bunch of you troubas are wondering how well you contribute to your groups due to the recent nerfs. Well, I can tell you it's better than you think. Yeah, I'm aware that you like the dirges have some pretty broken and useless skills now but it ain't all that bad. You've got some PRIME skills and songs that while you may not be aware of, others are, and they are indeed uber.

jawgo
02-23-2005, 08:40 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xanusus wrote:<BR><BR><BR>You also may have noticed that you now have a 50 guardian coming to this forum and poking your brains for the same information. I know right now a bunch of you troubas are wondering how well you contribute to your groups due to the recent nerfs. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Yes I did notice that a Guardian has asked the same question. Why all the interest all of a sudden? Were the Agility "re-evaluations" not enough? Sorry if thats not yalls intentions but its the way it struck me.

Vermillio
02-23-2005, 09:37 PM
<blockquote><hr>jawgoat wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Xanusus wrote:<BR><BR><BR>You also may have noticed that you now have a 50 guardian coming to this forum and poking your brains for the same information. I know right now a bunch of you troubas are wondering how well you contribute to your groups due to the recent nerfs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes I did notice that a Guardian has asked the same question. Why all the interest all of a sudden? Were the Agility "re-evaluations" not enough? Sorry if thats not yalls intentions but its the way it struck me.<hr></blockquote>i had the same impression, that's why i blanked my post on the top...

Jzi
02-24-2005, 03:28 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jawgoat wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xanusus wrote:<BR><BR><BR>You also may have noticed that you now have a 50 guardian coming to this forum and poking your brains for the same information. I know right now a bunch of you troubas are wondering how well you contribute to your groups due to the recent nerfs. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Yes I did notice that a Guardian has asked the same question. Why all the interest all of a sudden? Were the Agility "re-evaluations" not enough? Sorry if thats not yalls intentions but its the way it struck me.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>LOL well while xanusus has posted some good threads on dirge issues, I've not seen him call for a troubadour nerf in any of them, so I don't think you need to be that worried. However as its clear from several posts from people on both sides who do ask for nerfs of one or another, they don't really know that much about the other sub-class. So sharing info I'd imagine would be a good way to improve and differentiate both classes. Not that I'm saying thats whay xanusus is doing, its quite possibly he's getting info for raid groups etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the guardian, can't see why in hell he'd want troub buffs adversely re-evaluated.... so again, he's prolly looking at raid/grup buffs from a min/max perspective at a guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></FONT>

Nobol
02-24-2005, 07:18 PM
<blockquote><hr>jawgoat wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Xanusus wrote:You also may have noticed that you now have a 50 guardian coming to this forum and poking your brains for the same information. I know right now a bunch of you troubas are wondering how well you contribute to your groups due to the recent nerfs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes I did notice that a Guardian has asked the same question. Why all the interest all of a sudden? Were the Agility "re-evaluations" not enough? Sorry if thats not yalls intentions but its the way it struck me.<hr></blockquote>That would be because he is also a troub.....Shanas the paper tank of Drow.I take that back, there might be another 50 Guardian snooping around O_o<p>Message Edited by Nobolis on <span class=date_text>02-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:23 AM</span>

Xanus
02-25-2005, 11:17 PM
Nah guys LOL I'm not asking to get ya nerfed. Goodness you've been nerfed enough. they popped you guys in the belly the hardest. I'm asking for raid purposes and for my own personal interest. I've got a troubador alt. We have a troubador in our guild but she isn't 50 and doesn't have the adepts for those skills I'm inquiring about yet. I'd ask her but wouldn't really get a clear picture yet. Anyways, you can feel safe with me I don't have class envy.P.S. NERF TROUBADORS!!!! LOL j/k

Arcturo
02-26-2005, 01:57 AM
<DIV>Ok, not 50 yet but at 47th using Swan Song and our most recent haste spell I can buff party defense by 12pts. The short duration 30 sec with a minute recast could add another 15 or 20 pts don't recall off the top of my head only use it when I accidently pull aggro in groups, but it is troubador only. All spells are at adept 1 BTW.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Darkmane 47th Troubador of Permafrost</DIV>

Xanus
02-26-2005, 04:51 PM
Thanks Arcturo.So basically you're getting 8 points of defense from swan's and 4 from haste and then another 20 or so from your 60 second parry buff. that's pretty good. I mentioned this elsewhere but at least from a dirge standpoint our short duration parry buff can be made to last about 60 seconds instead of the usual 30. I'll generally cast it and wait for it to get down to the very last second on my maintained window and then cast it again before the reuse timer on it starts counting down. I can pretty much get a full 60 seconds out of it that way instead of the usual 30 before the reuse timer on it locks me out of using it.Anyways I'm sure some of you are aware of what adding to defense skill does. If not, I'll explain. You only get 5 points per lvl in defense skill as you lvl up. Your max defense skill at lvl 50 is 250(unless you took a racial trait which would add to it in some way). mine is 255 because I chose a human. they get a +5 defense skill trait that permanently adds to defense skill. Human's also get another racial trait that adds +5 defense skill and lasts 3 minutes with a 30min reuse on it.Defense skill is the main determining factor in whether or not you get hit. Defense skill is your avoidance. the higher you have it the harder it is for mobs to hit you. This is why agi got nerfed because agi coupled with high defense skill practically made players into gods. They could not be hit at all in the end game especailly troubadors coupled with high agi AND high defense skill. Content was being trivialized as a result.(agi also plays a role in avoidance and is used in conjunction with defense skill to determine if a mob can succesfully attack you). I'll put it to you this way, as a dirge with a lower defense skill than you guys can get I was soloing BLUE ^^named boss mobs without taking ANY damage before the huge agi nerf. I can only imagine how much more insane a troubador would have been with their high agi and defense skill.Anyways by adding 5 points to defense skill what you are actually doing is raising that players lvl by 1 lvl. So a lvl 50 who gets +5 defense skill is operating as if he were lvl 51 in terms of defense. Adding 10 points to defense skill would make a lvl 50 player operate as if he were lvl 52 in terms of defense, etc. Now let me clear something up. Defense skill is *NOT* AC. AC is your mitigation factor and only comes into play when a mob successfully hits you. When a mob has beat your defense skill, the game then does a check of your armor class value to determine how hard that hit will be against you.I wouldn't worry guys. the devs have done about all the nerfing to you guys that's gonna get done. If anything they are more than aware of what their changes did to troubadors. i've certainly made them aware of how they affected us dirges and many of our issues are yours as well as we share similar abilities.Now hopefully some of you troubadors who read this and have been neglecting your luck line of songs will take another look at them. It is the best song line you have and costs you 2 huge concentration points for a reason. Your haste buff(although the haste on it blows is invaluable too!).

Claritin
03-01-2005, 01:19 AM
Might want to look at my data gathering project for Troubshttp://www.thedauntless.org/Troubadour/Spell%20Screenshots/You can not only see some of the data for the songs we lvl 50's use... but you will see the effect of our spell upgrades on the defense gain (apprentice 1 vs Master 1 type stuff)I am still trying to gain info to make the chart more complete...

Jark
03-01-2005, 04:08 AM
awesome list...any chance you are planning on taking screenshots of all the remaining troub skills? I would love to see whats on the road ahead <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />