View Full Version : Hate Management in Combat

12-15-2004, 06:36 PM
<DIV>I have not seen this listed anywhere, but I have a 35 Troubador and the level of hate generated in every encounter is simply rediculous.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When a tank pulls a mob with say a bow.. the mob runs right past the tank and straight at me... and I'm standing there doing nothing!... i could be AFK and the mob would rush me.... If ANYONE in the group agro's a mob.. it comes to me... the tank then has to taunt for half an hour to get the mob off!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Buffs with VERY VERY high agro: </DIV> <DIV>The ENTIRE line of Arcane, ie Arcane Chorus and Arcane Symphony (thus far)</DIV> <DIV>The ENTIRE line of Luck songs, ie Songster's Luck and Minstrel's Fortune</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If one of these is cast in a battle... I'm tanking every mob in the encounter until they are all dead... no tank can get agro back... its been tried... lots</DIV> <DIV>If one of these is RUNNING at the start of the battle... I get immediate mob agro... and it usually takes 2-3 taunts from the tank to get the mob off me.... am I a tank or a dps class?... beginning to wonder</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Both the Arcane and the Luck line are high on the request for buffs and are always up, Arcane increases the tanking ability of the tank (cleric is happy, tank is happy) and Luck increases the DPS of the group (Wizzy nukes harder, Rogue backstabs higher, everyone is happy).. But everytime i have both buffs up, even with a Guardian doing the pulls and the tanking, I have agro on inc... Fortunately for me, my group is static and understands the agro I generate... but the agro level is just dumb... My debuffs dont pull that level of agro... I can AE debuff and dot and not steal agro from the tank ... but if I'm running buffs I get to tank the first 10-15 seconds of the fight.. This needs serious looking over!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've tried switching out those two for other lines of buffs, but the group performance is decreased, and I still get agro on inc a lot, granted its a lot lower and easier to peel off of me.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No other class gets agro from their running buffs that I have seen.... and if they do it needs to be fixed... the person that agro's the encounter should be the one to hold agro unless someone else affects the hatelist of that mob somehow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are other issues with the Troub.. but I really think this one needs to get handled ASAP.... I wont beable to play any songs at all on a raid for fear of taking agro on whatever dragon is being engaged.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Standard buff set during encounters:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody>Bria's Thrilling Ballad: (Low agro, no problems)</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody>Minstrel's Fortune: (High agro.. Bard tank)</SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody>Raxxyl's Energizing Harmony: (Medium agro, negotiable as long as I dont cast it at the start of the pull)</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody>Arcane Symphony: (High agro.. Bard tank)</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody><SPAN class=postbody>That normally fills my conc slots, but a lot of times I'll drop Thrilling Ballad for a debuff or dot on multimob encounters... which I dont have any issues getting agro from this.</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Scaledfang on <SPAN class=date_text>12-15-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:59 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Scaledfang on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>05:59 AM</span>

12-15-2004, 07:50 PM
<DIV>If I buff during combat this is what happens...If I buff before combat..no problems</DIV>

12-15-2004, 10:28 PM
<DIV>As long as you are cognizant of this behavior, it shouldn't be a problem.  In fact you can use this to your advantage if need be.  I have used arcane chorus to save a healer several times in my career.  I'm no super tank, but I can usually hand hits better than a druid that is 3 or 4 levels lower than I am.  The only problem I have is that if my concentration slots are full, I have to cancel arcane chorus before I can fire it off, the delay can get a caster killed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tanks can generally get a MoB off of me after I've used Arcane Chorus, but it usually takes several taunts.  My AC is usually within 100 to 200 or so of the tank so I don't get too bad of a beat down.  If I know I can't take what the beasts are going to dish out, I simply don't play the song in combat.</DIV>

12-16-2004, 12:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I've noticed the same thing going on. I'm level 24 now and if the tank does not pull with taunt then I have agro. If my group is running through nek forest and someone gets agro and we keep running. I have agro. Now I have used this to save people with my own life. Its still annoying. </P> <P>I'm pretty sure cleric buffs are better then mine, and being able to taunt better then any tank doesn't make sense. What I do now is reserve 1 conc for soothing(encounter detaunt) and cast it as soon as the pull is within range.This seems to work pretty well, but still I'm left with one less conc just for this problem. </P> <P>I'm not sure why bard buffs have so much hate. If they are to stay the same I want old songerster's luck back to the original state.</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Message Edited by Zorac on <SPAN class=date_text>12-15-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:33 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Zorac on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:35 AM</span>

12-18-2004, 02:22 AM
<DIV>If you're conscious about aggro, you can keep it minimal, but mobs do still sporadically charge at me even though I'm not even casting a buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just make sure your tank knows about the aggro you absorb, and tell him to hold pulls shortly when you rebuff. I've been in groups where the tank is pulling as fast as he/she can, and there is simply no time to buff before combat. I sometimes buff during combat, when the mob is close to death. By that time, the tank has usually accumulated a lot of aggro. Only one buff at a time, however--if you cast 2-3, you'll definitely grab aggro. I usually cast mana regen at this time, since it lasts such a short time but needs to be up constantly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another interesting agggro event is buffing in a location with mobs nearby (but out of proximity aggro range) and having the mobs charge at you from a distance. I'm not sure if this is a bug or intentional but that's something I've been careful about now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Crescendo</DIV> <DIV>-35 Half-Elf Troubador</DIV> <DIV>-Vanquished</DIV>

12-18-2004, 02:46 AM
Never play a buff song while your tank is pulling and you should be ok, the tanks i play with all know that when i hit my hotkey that im about to refresh songs that they take a 5 sec break and wait on their frenzied pulling <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />i rarely get in any trouble by playing a song during combat, I often throw up the Arcane line when we get a surprise caster pull we werent expecting, never had much of a problem with it during a fight, but lord if you buff during the pull you can rest assured the mobs will come straight for your mandolin playing butt!edit: i also see in your list of normal buffs you are using Raxxyls, don't use it in groups without expecting it to cause a bit more aggro troubles, the song raises you on the hate list, its one of the designed affects of the thing. i would guess that this is causing part of your problems, try the other +str song perhaps if thats the effect you are going for<p>Message Edited by Bistered on <span class=date_text>12-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:50 PM</span>

12-18-2004, 05:45 AM
<DIV>You also need to becareful of long pulls. I have noticed that if the tank gets outside of my buff range during the pull, the moment he enters it again I will have instant aggro. No real way to control this best to just be prepared with a slot open for soothing, or have shield and Insatiable Ardor to hold out till the tank regains aggro. It still can get hairy but I usually live through it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Darkmane 32nd Troubador of Permafrost</DIV>