Brigand Nerf in PvP is HUGE

[Dutka]

<DIV>SOE, the changes to the Class specific Brigand skill (which should be a major skill) BLACK JACK in PVP has been a complete failure.   Was this not tested in PvP ?  To change this skill from a 5 sec Stun (a major pvp skill) to a root-hold has been a complete failure in PvP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hoped on an tried out the pvp with the changed skill and was shocked... racked up about a third of my own deaths and </DIV> <DIV>could often not defeat a blue...   all of these with me getting the jump on the opponent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is my initial findings (which SOE should have found if they tested this)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>During the 5 sec Brigands use to get the majority of our damage in with much of the fight decided soon after.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><U>Fury-Wardens</U> simply heal away the damage we are doing from behind and even work in a nuke or dot.</DIV> <DIV><U>Mystic-Paly</U> put up a quick ward</DIV> <DIV><U>Tanks</U> do a AOE stun or AOE damage</DIV> <DIV><U>Swashy or Ranger</U> can do AOE damage or break our targetting... it is only 6 sec.. so does not take much to burn the time.</DIV> <DIV><U>Casters</U> either stun us or nuke away.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Part of the major advantage of the Stun was that it dissoriented the player... his screen blurred and he could not do these </DIV> <DIV>other things or even get oriented to the battle... precious time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If this was not one of our major class defining skills it would not be a huge deal... but for Brigands.. the stun-dps was thier thing.</DIV> <DIV>And <U>Black Jack was a major class defining skill</U>.... ask a Brig how often they lead with it.</DIV> <DIV>Sure Tanks had thier knockback reduced... not a huge deal as its not the primary skill of the class, where </DIV> <DIV>the black jack stun line was the major skill for the Brigand Class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No I am not going to "just go reroll a different class", but I have accepted almost all of SOE changes and tried to work with them, this however kills the class in PVP... oh great it helps SOE solve the "stun" problem in the game... well this is NOT the way to do it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Suggestions (because I try to offer solutions and not just complain)</DIV> <DIV>1. Add a Stifle to the 6 sec Black Jack line</DIV> <DIV>2. Add a Blur to the 6 sec Black Jack line</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps then this would help solve the incredible impact this has on the PVP Brigand.</DIV> <DIV>But please SOE do something with regard to this skill in PVP.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Celd]

<DIV><STRONG><U><FONT face=Century size=4>bump:smileyindifferent:</FONT></U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5></FONT> </DIV>

[Jida]

<div><blockquote><hr>Celdui wrote:<div><strong><u><font face="Century" size="4">bump:smileyindifferent:</font></u></strong></div> <div><font size="5"></font> </div><hr></blockquote>Bump usually = thread locked.Only reason I'm even saying anything is cuz ur post count is 1 =)Gratz on the first post.My 2 cp.5 seconds of stun is not going to break PVP.Use your taunt on healers after you root them and they ward themselves (works like a charm).The other classes I reserve my comments till I log in and play a tad.</div>

[arabprin]

<DIV>I'm a brigand, I don't lead off with this skill.  I actually use it more for the damage output.  But I haven't played since LU24 and have no clue how the damage reduction has effected the skill.  Will try to play with it today and see how this root works.</DIV>

[PopePow]

In PvP it works just fine, I can at least kill just as fast, maybe even faster with the root/no turn directional in place, I know for me it's a bit easier to pull off back attack combos in a row. And for myself in PvE, works just fine solo or grouped. And yes, I usually lead off with this after my sneak attack or ranged CA.<div></div>

[ddisca]

<DIV>i partially agree with Dutkahn...</DIV> <DIV>one side...a root "hold direction" is not like a stun...so if enemy in those 5secs can do something...well it's a bad nerf...mainly for those who focused their fights on blackjack...</DIV> <DIV>on other side...root "hold direction" still gives ya time to perform one of most powerful toys brigands have...side/behind positional attack or Cusssssssss and both got interrupt component!! /roar...theorically will work like pre patch...so the wards, heals, aoe stun/knockdown, nukes...are avoidable!</DIV> <DIV>am i wrong? well i think it may work...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just an habit <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hiram</DIV>

[Myrcul]

<DIV>The OP's comments are valid though.  A 'clueful' opponent will know the difference between a stun and a root.  When rooted with no direction change, they can still do a large number of attacks (well documented by OP) meaning that the opponent is only slightly inconvenienced.  Since our Brigandly skills all depend on being able to do unanswered DPS, once they can answer, there is a significant shift in the balance of power. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why they made these changes to affect both PvE and PvP is beyond me.  From what I understand it was necessary in PvP due to the superior nature of scouts, but the PvE effects were unneeded.  I've yet to test it all out myself on the live server thuogh, busy yesterday.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Myrculus</DIV>

[Kegofbud]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Myrculus wrote:<BR> <DIV>The OP's comments are valid though.  A 'clueful' opponent will know the difference between a stun and a root.  When rooted with no direction change, they can still do a large number of attacks (well documented by OP) meaning that the opponent is only slightly inconvenienced.  Since our Brigandly skills all depend on being able to do unanswered DPS, once they can answer, there is a significant shift in the balance of power. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why they made these changes to affect both PvE and PvP is beyond me.  From what I understand it was necessary in PvP due to the superior nature of scouts, but the PvE effects were unneeded.  I've yet to test it all out myself on the live server thuogh, busy yesterday.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Myrculus</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I think their intent was just as much for PVE, maybe more. The reason for the change was to stop groups from stun locking mobs with the right group combinations. Whether or not that was the real reason behind it, we'll never know. It's still useful, but a quality player will know and learn what they can do when this is used on them.  We just have to take time to learn and adapt as well. I didn't get in to any PVP fights last ngiht to try it. By the time I got done with setting up everything on brokers for both servers and raiding, my night was over.<BR>

[Scotti]

<DIV>Brigands are arguably the best pvp suited class in the game, stuns were toned down all across the board, yet brigands can still debuff a player the same as they would a raid mob turning plate tanks into jelly while maintaining excellent nonposistional and sustainable DPS. Brigands also have the highest mitigation of any scout and the natural ability to track stealthed players, I wouldn't be too concerned about the change, maybe you'll actually recieve a challenge in pvp now.</DIV>

[Carna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stripe7 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Brigands are arguably the best pvp suited class in the game, stuns were toned down all across the board, yet brigands can still debuff a player the same as they would a raid mob turning plate tanks into jelly<FONT color=#ffff00> while maintaining excellent nonposistional </FONT>and sustainable DPS. Brigands also have the highest mitigation of any scout and the natural ability to track stealthed players, I wouldn't be too concerned about the change, maybe you'll actually recieve a challenge in pvp now.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The non-positional bit aint us mate.

[Jida]

<div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Stripe7 wrote: <div>Brigands are arguably the best pvp suited class in the game, stuns were toned down all across the board, yet brigands can still debuff a player the same as they would a raid mob turning plate tanks into jelly<font color="#ffff00"> while maintaining excellent nonposistional </font>and sustainable DPS. Brigands also have the highest mitigation of any scout and the natural ability to track stealthed players, I wouldn't be too concerned about the change, maybe you'll actually recieve a challenge in pvp now.</div> <hr> </blockquote>The non-positional bit aint us mate.<hr></blockquote>The intent i took it was a referenace to AR.</div>

[Lings]

<P>Hmm.... I'm not psychic, but I predicted that would happen the very second I read "Black jack has been changed from a 5 second stun, to a 6 second root and hold direction" Which WAS way back when they were testing it. Sad... Very sad... This means terrible things.</P> <P>To be honest, I think that their intent in changing this skill was to keep Brigands from "locking down" heroics in groups with lots of stuns. I doubt that they really wanted to nerf our soloing ability. PvP or otherwise. I knew when I read that, because any skill that does not specify "Must be facing target" can generally be used when not facing them.</P><p>Message Edited by Lingsch on <span class=date_text>06-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:49 PM</span>