The Eight Stone Icons

[Vollux]

<DIV>Tonights late night weird question: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before EoF came out the some of the icon image files were pushed early.  Now that it is live I've seen nearly all these icons in one form or another,</DIV> <DIV> except for the eight grey stone looking ones. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/80336.jpg"><IMG src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/80335.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are they used in game somewhere?  I know we had a few threads here about the symbols, and hope somebody has seen them. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also has anyone that has been all over Mistmoore found the symbol that Jindrack uses for a Icon anywhere inside the zone? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Grozmok]

I recognized Jindrack's avatar immediately -- for those who remember, there is a duplicate of that image in the portal room in the revamped Hole of EQ1. Why he has it for an avatar, I don't know.As for the stone symbols, no idea. Haven't seen them anywhere.<div></div>

[syous01]

I'm guessing they represent 8 dieities. <div></div>

[Themaginator]

<div></div><div></div>Oh oops those symbols each represent a section of the combine empire as far as i know <p>Message Edited by Themaginator on <span class=date_text>12-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:01 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Those 8 stones are old diety icons from Eqlive.</DIV>

[Moneta_]

I think those are the diety icons. The one on the bottom, 2nd from the right is Innoruuk/Dark Elf.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Aye, those bottom three are Quellious, Innoruuk, and Rallos Zek from left to right. (Although all 8 diety buff symbols in EQ2 are seen just to the right of them.)</DIV>

[Vollux]

<DIV>So <EM><STRONG>you have</STRONG></EM> seen the Eight stone icons used in EQ2 currently for some skill or ability associated with that deity?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Because I haven't.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I recognize the symbols from EQlive since I spent a number of evenings roaming Third Gate.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have completed all of Inny's quest, and half way through Rallos Zek's and <EM>none </EM>of those Stone-like Icons are used for blessings or miracles.   I just find it odd that artwork like this would be created and not in the game in some form or another.  I think it is curious that a version of the original symbol was used to reveal the gods return.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>As I mentioned: The diety symbols used in the game are the ones found to the right of the Grey ones.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quellious' symbol is the Yellow icons with the Eye and 3 prongs on it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The grey icons are seen all over Eqlive, which means they are representing symbols of the gods. Maybe they're detrimental symbols representing any battle effects the avatars give to anyone who attacks them?</DIV>

[ganng]

Who's stone symbol is the one with the spiral on it... seems to meet the description of a stone we are looking for in another thread.

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I don't know, really. 4 of those 8 symbols rarely showed up in EQlive.</DIV>

[Pyrrhx]

<P>Maybe it's just me... but wouldnt the spiral by Cazic Thule, I always associate spirals with chaos, which is inherently related to fear.</P> <P> </P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Nah, CT is the Crossbones.</DIV>

[TheWays]

You sure about that?I always thought the crescent shaped symbol was CT, since it adorned the walls and sconces heavily of Paineel - who's denizens were devout Cazic Thulians.<div></div>

[Vollux]

<DIV>The reason I'm asking is I just feel these are clues for us to fully unravel the current storryline but I'm not high enough level to get to the places I would like to search for more clues.  What with the recent 3:00 / 6:00 thread that mentioned circles within circles and arrows.  I immediately thought of this image again. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know this image was given as a EoF hint:</DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/Expansion_Hint_sized.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and it seems to be based off this symbol from EQlive</DIV> <DIV><IMG height=347 src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/cleaneduptat.jpg" width=488>'</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't know who or what each symbol represents for certain ,but I do notice immediately that the three symbols are missing from the center circle on the EQ2 version.  I also noticed the Spiral image as a match for the description of the stone of the shissar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It showed up origanally in this <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=10231" target=_blank>thread</A> which I found notable because of the Vhalen's and Jindrack's posts, sadly the thread disintegrated into a snarl over the Codex of War.  I've spent more time pulling at the many loose threads of this particular knot then I care to think about.  I really feel this is tied into the current storyline somehow I just can't find the missing pieces. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm just hoping somebody stumbled across a piece of odd zone art that resembles either one of them and is willing to share the information.</DIV>

[IrishWonder]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vollux wrote:<BR> <DIV>  I also noticed the Spiral image as a match for the description of the stone of the shissar.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>When I first read the description of the Stone of the Shissar in Nek 3, I immediately remembered and related it to that spiral symbol as well. It fits in a wierd sort of way... if that spiral symbol were the symbol of Cazic-Thule, and it adorned an ancient relic called the Stone of the Shissar which was a race of snakemen that Cazic nearly destroyed entirely... there are some definite correlations there.</DIV>

[RaphaNissi]

<div></div>I agree that these symbols have more importance then we are giving them credit.  Vhalen even said as much in his interview at Warcry with this statement.<i>Vhalen: Remember when we revealed to you "the future of EverQuest II." It is the key to destin</i>y.As for the 3 symbols missing, I think they are in those three circular areas found around the center of the EQ2 symbol.EDIT: I figured I would head over to the EQ forums and see what they had to say about it.  There is actually a recent thread where the symbols are discussed.  They mention many of the places the symbol(s) is found.  <a target="_blank" href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=12247&view=by_date_ascending&page=1">Here</a> is a link for anyone who wants to check out the hypothesis going on in the other game.  <div></div><p>Message Edited by RaphaNissi on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:30 PM</span>

[Hirebra]

This is a magic circle seen all over the place in EQ1. Perhaps it is used to summon, focus magic, or maybe its a warding sigil. Its in Mistmoore, Neriak, Najena, the Bloodsabres hideout, the Spectre tower in Oasis, and other places.<img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/cleaneduptat.jpg">I believe the symbols relate to the creation mythology of EQ.Center:VeeshanInside the circle, the early gods:Candelabra is BrellThree Waves is PrexusThe Nine is TunareOutside the circle are the later (evil) gods:Bottom right (thorned crescent) is Cazic Thule (seen in Paineel and Feerrott)Bottom left is Zek (used by orcs and ogres)Top right (spiral) is Bertoxxulous (seen in the Bloodsabres hideout)Top left (crossed bones) is unknown...Of course their use in EQ is probably muddled by Verant's artists using them as mere decoration for zones.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Bottom Right is Quellious. Seen ALL OVER Erudin, and more to the point it's symbol is on the firepot in Timorous Deep that took you to Erudin.</DIV>

[Mirander_1]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Hirebrand wrote:This is a magic circle seen all over the place in EQ1. Perhaps it is used to summon, focus magic, or maybe its a warding sigil. Its in Mistmoore, Neriak, Najena, the Bloodsabres hideout, the Spectre tower in Oasis, and other places.<img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/cleaneduptat.jpg">I believe the symbols relate to the creation mythology of EQ.Center:VeeshanInside the circle, the early gods:Candelabra is BrellThree Waves is PrexusThe Nine is TunareOutside the circle are the later (evil) gods:Bottom right (thorned crescent) is Cazic Thule (seen in Paineel and Feerrott)Bottom left is Zek (used by orcs and ogres)Top right (spiral) is Bertoxxulous (seen in the Bloodsabres hideout)Top left (crossed bones) is unknown...Of course their use in EQ is probably muddled by Verant's artists using them as mere decoration for zones.<div></div><hr></blockquote>The center icon is for Innoruuk and Neriak, I believe, and the bottom right is Quellious, as well as being the symbol for Erudin<div></div>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hirebrand wrote:<BR>This is a magic circle seen all over the place in EQ1. Perhaps it is used to summon, focus magic, or maybe its a warding sigil. Its in Mistmoore, Neriak, Najena, the Bloodsabres hideout, the Spectre tower in Oasis, and other places.<BR><BR><IMG src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/cleaneduptat.jpg"><BR><BR>I believe the symbols relate to the creation mythology of EQ.<BR>Center:<BR>Veeshan<BR><BR>Inside the circle, the early gods:<BR>Candelabra is Brell<BR>Three Waves is Prexus<BR>The Nine is Tunare<BR><BR>Outside the circle are the later (evil) gods:<BR>Bottom right (thorned crescent) is Cazic Thule (seen in Paineel and Feerrott)<BR>Bottom left is Zek (used by orcs and ogres)<BR>Top right (spiral) is Bertoxxulous (seen in the Bloodsabres hideout)<BR>Top left (crossed bones) is unknown...<BR><BR>Of course their use in EQ is probably muddled by Verant's artists using them as mere decoration for zones.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I've heard this explaination for this design before, but for some reason, it doesn't all fit together.  For example, the head in the middle (which you claim is Veeshan)  seems to be the popular logo used by the Teir'Dal to represent their empire.  The "thorned crescent" which you claim is Cazic-Thule is also often used by orcs, most of which have no allegience to Cazic-Thule (in fact, I have yet to hear of an orc tribe or individual who followed Cazic).</P> <P>As to the Spiral, it seem to pretty much be a spot on example of the Rune of Sunder, read about in a tome in Nek3 which was described as the following:</P> <P><STRONG>There is an image of a swirling line such as a whirlpool would create when viewed overhead or a spiraled serpent</STRONG>.</P> <P>Also, I'm not sure why the symbol for Tunare would by nine dots.  Some would cite the spell from EQ called the Blessing of the Nine, but if you read the lore behind the spell, you'd see that it didn't have as much to do with Tunare, as it did with the druidic faith in general.  Representatives from the three druidic races would come (humans, halflings, and elves), and each one would bring three gifts (3 x 3=9), offering these gifts up to both Tunare and Karana, and more generally, nature itself.  This is evident by the fact that those many in attendance didn't worship Tunare, but Karana (probably a majority of the humans, and all of the halflings).  Some have theorized that it represented the Tribunal, but this too is unlikely, as there were only six members of the Tribunal (seven if you include the 7th Hammer: the tie breaker and balif)</P> <P>I don't think anyone knows what those are except the devs.  To me, they are simply runes.</P> <P> </P>

[LordPengu]

<DIV>Could the center symbol represent The Nameless? I mean, honestly, leave it to the dark elves to arrogantly use an image that represents the most powerful entity in the cosmos as the heraldry for their empire.</DIV>

[aquavia]

<P>I think the symbols are more about races than gods. I attended the EQ Fan Faire in Dallas in 2002.  They were selling pins representing each race/class.  The Dark Elf pin has the center symbol (to me it looks like a bat) on it.</P> <P>At one point during my EQ1 years, I started <A href="http://www.aquaviann.com/eqmysteries.html" target=new>cataloging some of the old-world symbols</A>.  I found the bottom right symbol outside the circle in Erudin, Paineel, the Hole, and other Erudite-related places, so I think it'd be associated with Erudites in general.</P> <P>Edit: Or maybe 'empires,' like someone else mentioned, more than gods specifically, since some gods were tied to more than one race.  But I could be totally off.  Has it been officially stated somewhere that they were god symbols?</P><p>Message Edited by aquaviann on <span class=date_text>12-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:18 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<P>No, the center symbol is not the Nameless. It is Innoruuk.</P> <P>The Lower Right symbol is Quellious, which leads me to believe the Heretics of Paineel decided to either keep the same archetectural and cultural designs as Erudin, but with thier own new cultural twist, Or they still valued the morals of Quellious despite being faithful Cazicites. Just like the Iksar culture, Peace through fear. That sort of thing.</P>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>You say that with such finality, but who/what/where has this been stated by people who would actually know?  With all due respect, you again are coming off as saying something is fact, when in reality it is theory or opinion.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I say what with such finality? That the center symbol is Innoruuk? The fact that that very symbol is found all over Neriak, and the Dark Elves worship Innoruuk above all else, and even the Dark Elf forum icon on the EQlive forums have that very symbol showing them?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The part where I said "which leads me to believe" about that whole thing with Quellious' symbol in Paineel?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[RaphaNissi]

As a side note, the symbol in Paineel is slightly different than the one in Erudin.  The one from Erudin is the one shown in the larger symbol and on the stone icon.<div></div>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <P>No, the center symbol is not the Nameless.<STRONG><U><FONT color=#99ffff> </FONT><FONT color=#66ccff>It is Innoruuk</FONT></U></STRONG>.</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#66ccff><U>The Lower Right symbol is Quellious</U></FONT></STRONG>, which leads me to believe the Heretics of Paineel decided to either keep the same archetectural and cultural designs as Erudin, but with thier own new cultural twist, Or they still valued the morals of Quellious despite being faithful Cazicites. Just like the Iksar culture, Peace through fear. That sort of thing.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>As I said, you seem to proclaim the symbols' meanings with finality.</P> <P>Though I do not deny the fact that the symbol in the middle is one that the Teir'Dal use to represent their people, and/or Empire, it could just as easily represent a dark elf as it could Innoruuk, or perhaps some other conglomeration of elves, bats, bolts of power, or whoever else knows what.</P> <P>Similarly, we know almost nothing about the symbol in the bottom right corner, other than the fact that we can see a more defined view of it can be found in Erudin, and apparently something similar in Paineel.</P> <P>In short, the facts are as follows:</P> <P>The large symbol in the middle: <IMG src="http://www.aquaviann.com/fqbatdoor.jpg"> Is used by the Teir'Dal to represent themselves, whether it be their people, or their Empire is open for interpretation.</P> <P>The symbol in the bottom left: <IMG src="http://www.aquaviann.com/wcorc1.jpg"> Is most often seen used by members that were once of the Rallosian Empires (namely the ogres and the orcs).</P> <P>The symbol in the bottom right:<IMG src="http://www.aquaviann.com/painx.jpg"> Is the silhouette of a symbol used by the High Men, or the Erudites and Heretics.</P> <P>Beyond this, everything else is speculation, or perhaps worse, assumption.  What exactly they mean, we do not know.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Nocturnal Abyss wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr><strong><font color="#66ccff"><u></u></font></strong></blockquote><p>The symbol in the bottom right:<img src="http://www.aquaviann.com/painx.jpg"> Is the silhouette of a symbol used by the High Men, or the Erudites and Heretics.</p> <p>Beyond this, everything else is speculation, or perhaps worse, assumption.  What exactly they mean, we do not know.</p> <hr></blockquote>See how that one is different than the one in the larger symbol?  The one shown here is the one found in Paineel.  The ones in Erudin don't have that extra part on the "u" shape.  I'd post a picture, but I'm terrible with doing that.  <span>:smileywink:</span>  I agree that it's hard to tell if they represent deities or races because there are symbols that are hard to line up either way.  I have a feeling one day soon we will learn the answer to this old question.</div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocturnal Abyss wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>The symbol in the bottom left: <IMG src="http://www.aquaviann.com/wcorc1.jpg"> Is most often seen used by members that were once of the Rallosian Empires (namely the ogres and the orcs).</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This symbol is used by two or more races indicates that it is a symbol of Rallos Zek, and not a symbol of an individual race.

[ElnAckom]

While I'm no expert, and I'm still studying all of the background lore to get up to speed so I can start wrapping my head around this seriously, to someone coming at this with a fresh read of the creation myth in mind, the notion of the central symbol representing Veeshan seems to make a lot of sense, particularly with the early gods / later gods added in.I mean, look at the latest version. It looks like a dragon. Shaped like a V. Not to be a dink, but perhaps that particular representation is not intended to be highly enigmatic?<div></div>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>ElnAckom wrote:While I'm no expert, and I'm still studying all of the background lore to get up to speed so I can start wrapping my head around this seriously, to someone coming at this with a fresh read of the creation myth in mind, the notion of the central symbol representing Veeshan seems to make a lot of sense, particularly with the early gods / later gods added in.I mean, look at the latest version. It looks like a dragon. Shaped like a V. Not to be a dink, but perhaps that particular representation is not intended to be highly enigmatic?<div></div><hr></blockquote>When looking at the big symbol with all of them together, this makes the most sense.  The problem comes when trying to justify the middle symbol being all over Neriak and other Dark Elf related things.  </div>

[ElnAckom]

<div></div><div></div>I've been thinking about that while eating lunch...<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/studyimage.jpg"><i>(Note: For above, yellow lines correlate symbols we know match the stone icons, blue lines indicate symbols that don't, at first blush, match up exactly, and red symbols indicate glyphs that did not appear on the left hand image, which I understand to be the "earlier" image. The chevron beneath Brell's candles also conspicuously does not appear on the image at the right.)</i>So it makes sense that the symbol in the center is Veeshan, the three internal glyphs represent the First Alliance, the external glyphs represent the Second Alliance. Right? But the debate is bent out of ease because the Dragon V symbol (I'm gonna call it that for lack of a better term) also appears throughout the Tier'Dal culture from what I'm hearing? (Correct me if I'm wrong on this, I'm trying to catch up, LOL!)When I read the creation myth, it seemed to me that there were several instances of "phases." The gods came in "waves," and so did the races of Norrath, and then even the cities of Norrath seemed to come in these "leaps forward."So I'm eating lunch and there's a discussion on the History channel about [Removed for Content] Germany. Sure, whatever, seen this a million times, and the guy is going on about the swastika and how once upon a time it was an ancient symbol of peace. Yes yes, I know, I've heard it all before, and yes, it is a shame that this ancient symbol no longer has it's original...Oh.We're talking about ANCIENT, ANCIENT history here, right? The gods are petty and jealous in nature, surely they like their little symbols, and they were so proud of their races... I'm not the world's greatest EQ2 lore expert, but I'm pretty good with deciphering visuals and symbols, and if I've learned anything it's that what one person thinks a symbol means isn't necessarily what another thinks it means... particularly through cultural barriers... and over time.1. These were the symbols of the gods, but can't they also represent the rival races of Norrath?<i>EDIT: Apologies to Aqua, who clearly just said this yesterday on the last page, and for some reason I missed it. Der-der-derr. My bad. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But the question remains, can't there be a parallel between the clear creation myth-fitting Veeshan argument and the fact that the Tier'Dal have used the symbol to represent themselves? I just hate to think that the conniving Dark Elves using this symbol is enough reason to abort it as not representative of Veeshan, which would fit so very nicely in with the known creation mythology.</i>I remember reading that it was Innorruuk who created the Tier'Dal by torturing the King and Queen of the Elves from Takish-Hiz over three hundred some odd years and twisting their spirits and forms into the Dark Elves. 2. What's the link between Veeshan and the Tier'Dal?Additionally, there are two symbols on the image on the right that don't exist at all on the image on the left. The first is the "eye," which is conspicuously close to Rallos Zek, who I understand from EQ2 lore to be one of our more primary "bad guys" as far as today's surviving Norrathian culture is concerned. The second is the "x" at the bottom.<i>EDIT: Maybe the X isn't an X at all, but four arms of an Akheva? Could Luclin be involved in this, considering how important the Shattering was to the outset of EQ2?</i>3. Anyone able to direct me to some more reading or research materials on either of these?4. Am I completely on the wrong track and seeing things that aren't really there?<p>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <span class=date_text>12-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:14 PM</span>

[RaphaNissi]

Wish we could see the side symbols better....<span>:smileysad:</span><div></div>

[DreamerClou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ElnAckom wrote:<BR> <P>... Yes yes, I know, I've heard it all before, and yes, it is a shame that this ancient symbol no longer has it's original...<BR><BR>Oh.<BR><BR>....and if I've learned anything it's that what one person thinks a symbol means isn't necessarily what another thinks it means... particularly through cultural barriers... and over time.<BR><BR><I><FONT color=#ff0000>But the question remains, can't there be a parallel between the clear creation myth-fitting Veeshan argument and the fact that the Tier'Dal have used the symbol to represent themselves?</FONT> I just hate to think that the conniving Dark Elves using this symbol is enough reason to abort it as not representative of Veeshan, which would fit so very nicely in with the known creation mythology.</I><BR><BR>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________</P> <P> </P> <P>I believe you hit the bullseye with those thoughts above.  I am fairly certain that you are on the right track there.  Excellent insight - lets solve this!</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Atmosphear1993]

<DIV>Not going to debate what that center symbol means but I'd like to bring up a few obvious observations on the EQ2 slate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The EQ2 stone slab almost completely mimics the EQ1 glyph as shown above except for two noticable differences:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  There is a forth symbol on the EQ2 slab that has cut away a portion of the large circle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  There is a fifth symbol below the large circle that seems to have been removed from its place.  Notice the cracks around this circle.  Or, the symbol could just be very faint...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do these two extra features have any meaning? Probably...but what?</DIV>

[ElnAckom]

For those looking to analyze the image reference in the last post, scroll up to the study image included above. I auto-leveled the contrast up for the enlarged sections of the new symbols in question. (Reference the red markings.)<div></div>

[Jennive]

<div></div>Zooming in very close on the bottom one "An X? A Cross?" it actually looks like it is empty and what you are seeing are the cracks underneath that were made in the stone.Here's another look at those glyphs.<img src="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/dreamingmuse/eq2/glyph1.jpg"><img src="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/dreamingmuse/eq2/glyph2.jpg"><img src="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/dreamingmuse/eq2/glyph3.jpg"><img src="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/dreamingmuse/eq2/glyph4.jpg"><img src="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/dreamingmuse/eq2/glyph5.jpg"><div></div><p>Message Edited by Jennivere on <span class=date_text>12-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:19 PM</span>

[aquavia]

<P>Er, sure, Nocturnal Abyss, you can totally hotlink pics from my site!  Thanks for asking. =P  (Seriously though, kinda weird-yet-nice for the dinky site I made years ago to be of use now.)</P> <P>I'm a total posting newb here and too lazy to look up how to quote people, but yeah, responding to ElnAckom, the reason I thought this was because there are <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest_Deities" target=new>way more than 8 gods in the EQverse</A>, but far fewer "creation stories" and subsequent empires.  Multiple gods are tied to individual races (Quellious, Prexus, Solusek Ro, and Cazic Thule to the Erudites, for example).</P>

[Cusashorn]

Freedom of choice of religion in EQlive doesn't mean that god is connected to that race.

[aquavia]

<DIV>That eye (2nd close-up) reminds me a bit of the deeply-lined eye in some of the loading art.  If I remember correctly, it's placed with a pic of a barbarian.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aquaviann wrote:<BR> <DIV>That eye (2nd close-up) reminds me a bit of the deeply-lined eye in some of the loading art.  If I remember correctly, it's placed with a pic of a barbarian.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Runnyeye.

[ElnAckom]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> aquaviann wrote: <div>That eye (2nd close-up) reminds me a bit of the deeply-lined eye in some of the loading art.  If I remember correctly, it's placed with a pic of a barbarian.</div> <hr> </blockquote>Runnyeye.<hr></blockquote>Incorrect.<div align="center"><img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/loading.jpg"><div align="left">An astute observation, Aqua.</div></div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ElnAckom wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aquaviann wrote:<BR> <DIV>That eye (2nd close-up) reminds me a bit of the deeply-lined eye in some of the loading art.  If I remember correctly, it's placed with a pic of a barbarian.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Runnyeye.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Incorrect.<BR><BR> <DIV align=center><IMG src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/loading.jpg"><BR><BR> <DIV align=left>An astute observation, Aqua.<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That IS Runnyeye. Look at it. It's an eye, and tears are running down. Runnyeye. I've seen the same symbol in Runnyeye itself.

[ElnAckom]

I'll certainly go back and look in Runnyeye, as I've never seen that particular symbol there. It had certainly occurred to me that the tear-running eye may well be a "runnyeye," but I've neither seen nor read any correlation whatsoever between Barbarians and Runnyeye Citadel. Granted, the two images in the concept art may be unrelated, but it seemed from your single-word post that you were dismissing Aqua's statement that the image was, in fact, a loading image with a barbarian, which it most certainly is.Moreover, if that is "The Runnyeye," it's quite an advanced piece of iconography for Goblins, eh? Certainly not consistent with the "drippy goopy" incessant ramblings of the tribe that currently resides there.<div></div>

[ElnAckom]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div></div>I've seen the same symbol in Runnyeye itself.<hr></blockquote>Having now scoured every visible pixel of Runnyeye, including the Chamber of Rulgax, at the highest graphic settings, I was unable to find a single, solitary instance of the image in the loading screen pic anywhere. Not one. The only icon images include the wide-eyed lidless eye on the goblin banners and the painted images of profile evil eyes in the presence of Lord Rulgax himself.Can you provide a screenshot, or a location? I am, sufficed to say, unconvinced. Just because the eye is crying and it makes sense in a snap to say "that's runnyeye" doesn't make it so. <i>Empiricism </i>is the order of the day in such matters, in my humble opinion.<i>Edit: And in the spirit of my insistence on empiricism, having found no additional information of any canon source regarding the symbol of Runnyeye, a crying eye / tears symbol of the Barbarians, or any other definitive answer via text or screenshot, I have written to Vhalen on the matter. For the record, the goal of ultimately discerning the "Creation Myth tablet" is far more important than either Ouka's or my ego. Regardless of "wrong" or "right," I'd like to get something more definitive and constructive.</i></div><p>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <span class=date_text>01-01-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:19 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Well I'm pretty sure I remember seeing something similar to it in King Xorbb's Gorge in EQlive. I appologize for not mentioning that detail in my previous post.</DIV>

[ElnAckom]

<div></div>No harm done. Was this the eye you were referring to, O? Google Images yielded this as one of the results for Gorge of King Xorbb.<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/gorge.jpg"><div></div><p>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <span class=date_text>01-01-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:09 PM</span>

[RaphaNissi]

There is another eye inside EQ Runnyeye.  It's crude in it's drawing and has green crud running out the far right end of it.  It's quite different than the one in the symbol here.  I'm glad someone came across the loading screen with the eye.  It was driving me crazy that I had seen something similar somewhere but couldn't figure out where.  Anways, the eye reminds me of Karana.  I can't find any specific uses of the symbol, but Karana's Tear is an item in EQ.  That's really the only reason I have for saying it, but it's possible if all the symbols represent a major deity.<div></div>

[aquavia]

<P>Here's the, er, <A href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?zone=27" target=new>runny eye</A> of Runneye (2nd column, 2nd row).  Yeah, it ain't exactly a grand work of art, but I'm sure some goblin graffiti artist is really proud of him/herself.</P> <P>Nice catch on that item, RaphaNissi.  I was never much for Qeynos or the Karanas, so I don't know a lot about the symbols in those EQ1 zones.  The loading screen reminds me of some tale I read a long time ago about betrayal and Halas, but that may have been player-written and thus not canon.</P>

[ElnAckom]

<div></div>Well done Rapha and great supporting image Aqua. That certainly seems more consistent with goblish graffiti. (And spelling skill... LOL.) Fascinating stuff.Edit: The Udjat eye I had thought I saw in SIlent City was, in fact, an eye-like (probably not even really an eye) symbol in Living Tombs, pictured here. Thank goodness this didn't add one more eye to boggle at!<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/eye1.jpg"><div></div><p>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <span class=date_text>01-01-2007</span> <span class=time_text>08:29 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ElnAckom wrote:<BR> No harm done. Was this the eye you were referring to, O? Google Images yielded this as one of the results for Gorge of King Xorbb.<BR><BR><IMG src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/gorge.jpg"><BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <SPAN class=date_text>01-01-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:09 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Aye, thats it. I just thought that it was a "new up to date" version of that icon, and that the Barbarian in the artwork was completely unrelated.

[Dragowulf]

<blockquote><hr>Jennivere wrote:<div></div>Zooming in very close on the bottom one "An X? A Cross?" it actually looks like it is empty and what you are seeing are the cracks underneath that were made in the stone.Here's another look at those glyphs.<img src="http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n88/dreamingmuse/eq2/glyph3.jpg"><div></div><p>Message Edited by Jennivere on <span class="date_text">12-29-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:19 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Looks clearly like a tree imoCould be a doll, or someone standing with arms wide oepn

[Dragowulf]

no idea where u guys get the lines acrros from thatjust cuz eq1 one is like that doesnt mean it hasn't changed.

[ElnAckom]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dragowulf2 wrote:no idea where u guys get the lines acrros from thatjust cuz eq1 one is like that doesnt mean it hasn't changed.<hr></blockquote>Sugar, you're going to have to be a bit more specific as to what you're talking about... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Do you mean the lines I drew on the EQ vs. EQ2 magic circles?</div>

[Dragowulf]

naw, sorry bout thatthe 3 lines going across for one of the symbols

[Dragowulf]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> <BR>ElnAckom wrote:<BR><BR> No harm done. Was this the eye you were referring to, O? Google Images yielded this as one of the results for Gorge of King Xorbb.<BR><BR><IMG src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/gorge.jpg"><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <P>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <SPAN class=date_text>01-01-2007</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:09 PM</SPAN><BR><BR></P> <HR> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Aye, thats it. I just thought that it was a "new up to date" version of that icon, and that the Barbarian in the artwork was completely unrelated.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><BR><BR>I've been getting into lore (new at it) so im not sure if this is right but here's what i found in the loading screens folder that i think is related:<BR><BR><A href="http://photobucket.com/" target=_blank><IMG alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting" src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a143/innocent974/eyebanner.png" border=0></A><BR>I mean maybe they are related somehow to a dragon? The eye shown in the eof hint looks somewhat of a dragon eye..<BR><BR>they look related somehow-my imput</P> <P><EM>*EDIT: Found in the exp02 folder where the KOS loading screens are*</EM></P><p>Message Edited by Dragowulf2 on <span class=date_text>01-01-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:28 PM</span>

[ElnAckom]

Interesting find! I'm not sure that I think the eyes from the Droag banners match the icon on the magic circle image, but I hadn't at all noticed the eyes before. You'll notice that the pupil of the magic circle icon is round, whereas the pupil for the eye on the Droag banners, as one would expect, are slitted a-la-drakota. Regarding the Runnyeye image, I'm skeptical as to a Droag-Goblin connection, but yet again, more eyes for the consideration bin!As for the three lines, you mean the symbol of Prexus? It was certainly simplified to the most basic iconograph in the original magic circle, that's for sure, but that's not inconsistent with real-world "reductions" of line drawings. The symbol on the "contemporary" magic circle that you said looks sort of like a tree certainly doesn't seem to match up at first blush, does it? (Hence the blue color code on my study image.) Batty.Perhaps the whole thing is an evil ploy by Vhalen to reduce one more leading iksar into mental jello as he subverts our agenda and subjugates my people. /baitbait <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Dragowulf]

ahh yes..your right, im going to try to explore this "eye"<BR><BR>(new to lore)<p>Message Edited by Dragowulf2 on <span class=date_text>01-01-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:34 PM</span>

[TheWays]

Ever get that deja vu feeling....<img src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/fushiakumu/EoFloading.jpg">looks somewhat familiar eh?<img src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/fushiakumu/symbol_edited.jpg">Seems this symbol may just may have already made its way to Norrath, or will shortly.<div></div>

[TheWays]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>ElnAckom wrote:Interesting find! I'm not sure that I think the eyes from the Droag banners match the icon on the magic circle image, but I hadn't at all noticed the eyes before. You'll notice that the pupil of the magic circle icon is round, whereas the pupil for the eye on the Droag banners, as one would expect, are slitted a-la-drakota. Regarding the Runnyeye image, I'm skeptical as to a Droag-Goblin connection, but yet again, more eyes for the consideration bin!As for the three lines, you mean the symbol of Prexus? It was certainly simplified to the most basic iconograph in the original magic circle, that's for sure, but that's not inconsistent with real-world "reductions" of line drawings. The symbol on the "contemporary" magic circle that you said looks sort of like a tree certainly doesn't seem to match up at first blush, does it? (Hence the blue color code on my study image.) Batty.Perhaps the whole thing is an evil ploy by Vhalen to reduce one more leading iksar into mental jello as he subverts our agenda and subjugates my people. /baitbait <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>I was flipping through my EQ Atlas for inspiration and stumbled across something I had never paid much attention to and completely forgot.  here's some images from various dragon controlled zones in eq 1. Sorry if its a bit too much.<img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery/skyfire-veeshan.jpg">from Skyfire Mountains<img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery/templeveeshan-fronthall.jpg">From the Temple of Veeshan<img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery/cobaltscar-totem.jpg">from Cobalt Scar<img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery/skyshrine-racnars.jpg">And finally Skyshrine (the candles caught my attention)From what I can gather the dragon banners are more of an homage to Veeshan stiking the planet and depositing her brood, the eyes are interesting, theres a much better picture of the the eyes in the EQ Atlas book for the Skyfire Mountains that I can't seem to find off hand. I can scan it, but the image is very small, we'll see.</div>

[RaphaNissi]

<div></div><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=10188&view=by_date_ascending&page=1">Here</a> is a link to another thread that discussed this symbol.  Maybe it can spur some more thoughts for us.  There are also posts from Vhalen and Jindrack on the first page.  I've been poking around some in EQ1 trying to find more places where the symbols are but haven't had much luck yet.<div></div>

[Vollux]

<P>This thread has drifted all around the place and nearly come right back to the beginning again.  </P> <P>Here is my take on the eight stone icons.  </P> <P>I think this device in it's orginal form was a power circle used by mages in EQ to control beings they called forth - <FONT color=#ffff00>my theory only.  Not a shred of lore to back it up that I can find</FONT>.  The only proof is that powerful mages - often necromatic in nature are found near the device in EQ.  </P> <P>Every single place that you could find the circle in EQ is missing from the EQ2 world; either buried or undiscoverd- except for Mistmoore.  And I can't get to the portions of Mistmoore to confirm whether it is missing or not.  My bet is that the rock that held the orginal symbol is gouged out in Castle Mistmoore.  I think this is the device the shadowman acquired.  I think the circles in the new image are their changes to it.  And our job is to acquire the the original eight stone icons inorder to restore the device to it's original form and thereby save the world.  All I've got are a few clues from in game lore that led me this direction:</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>As a result, the Director has used high-level operatives to acquire a device believed capable of stripping away a dragon's consciousness and implanting one of our own. Because this device was not of our construction, it has taken some time to integrate our technologies and techniques</FONT></P> <P>then Everlings multiple personalitie's dialogue:</P> <P><BR>『Within thickets of fiend and flesh,through a tunnel beyond death.. I call to you.』 <BR><BR>You say, "Hail, Antiquitor Kantus Mor'Tael" <BR>Antiquitor Kantus Mor'Tael says to you,"Do I know you? Yes ... the rune... the rune is the key" <BR><BR>You say to Antiquitor Kantus Mor'Tael,"The Rune of Sunder? <BR>Antiquitor Kantus Mor'Tael says to you,"You! I know you. The mystery begins with Sunder." <BR><BR>You say to Antiquitor Kantus Mor'Tael,"What is the mystery behide the Rune? Where do I begin my quest?" <BR>Antiquitor Kantus Mor'Tael says to you,"Time is short. The rune is but one . I am ... divided." <BR><BR>You say to Antiquitor Kantus Mor'Tael,"No! Do not go." <BR><BR>---------------------------- <BR><BR>Then i went to the second place, it was the original Rikantus standing on that cemetery in Antonica. <BR><BR>Again i examined the Symbol and talked to him, that's what he said: <BR><BR>---------------------------- <BR>You say, "Hail, Rikantus" <BR>Rikantus says to you, "The rune's family awaits." <BR><BR>You say to Rikantus, "What family?" <BR>Rikantus says to you, "It is a single key of a great ring." <BR><BR>You say to Rikantus, "What do you mean?" <BR>Rikantus says to you, "My thoughts... they fade and focus. Do not abandon the mystery. Do... not... abandon..." <BR><BR>You say to Rikantus, "Stay with me Rikantus!" <BR></P>

[Dragowulf]

<blockquote><hr>TheWays wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>ElnAckom wrote:Interesting find! I'm not sure that I think the eyes from the Droag banners match the icon on the magic circle image, but I hadn't at all noticed the eyes before. You'll notice that the pupil of the magic circle icon is round, whereas the pupil for the eye on the Droag banners, as one would expect, are slitted a-la-drakota. Regarding the Runnyeye image, I'm skeptical as to a Droag-Goblin connection, but yet again, more eyes for the consideration bin!As for the three lines, you mean the symbol of Prexus? It was certainly simplified to the most basic iconograph in the original magic circle, that's for sure, but that's not inconsistent with real-world "reductions" of line drawings. The symbol on the "contemporary" magic circle that you said looks sort of like a tree certainly doesn't seem to match up at first blush, does it? (Hence the blue color code on my study image.) Batty.Perhaps the whole thing is an evil ploy by Vhalen to reduce one more leading iksar into mental jello as he subverts our agenda and subjugates my people. /baitbait <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>I was flipping through my EQ Atlas for inspiration and stumbled across something I had never paid much attention to and completely forgot.  here's some images from various dragon controlled zones in eq 1. Sorry if its a bit too much.<img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery/skyfire-veeshan.jpg">from Skyfire Mountains<img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery/templeveeshan-fronthall.jpg">From the Temple of Veeshan<img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery/cobaltscar-totem.jpg">from Cobalt Scar<img src="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery/skyshrine-racnars.jpg">And finally Skyshrine (the candles caught my attention)From what I can gather the dragon banners are more of an homage to Veeshan stiking the planet and depositing her brood, the eyes are interesting, theres a much better picture of the the eyes in the EQ Atlas book for the Skyfire Mountains that I can't seem to find off hand. I can scan it, but the image is very small, we'll see.</div><hr></blockquote><a target="_blank" href="http://photobucket.com/"><img alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting" src="http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a143/innocent974/eyebanner2.png" border="0"></a>

[Moneta_]

I still say the middle Icon is Innoruuk, it was all over Neriak in EQ1. I also remember it on the website long ago as a symbol for either Dark Elves or Innoruuk himself. Those pics from the Dragon places show what is probably the representation of veeshan. It doesn't make any other sense to me, not after playing EQ1 and being in to the lore for so long.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>So do I. I honestly dont even see a Dragon in that symbol.</DIV>

[TheWays]

<div></div>I would agree looking at the <i>old</i> symbol and knowing that it was all over Neriak, but the symbol <b>now</b> is far more detailed this go round.<img src="http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o260/theways1982/VeeshanDissected.jpg">As you can tell, the center image now has a definitive set of ears beside the face rather than extended up from the top and what appears to be a crested ridgeline along the top of the head.  The "horn" shapes also have undergone some added detail.  If this is Innorruuk, and it very well may be, he is different than the images here:<img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/096/927.JPG">Albeit, they would be representations by completely different artists.  I believe it to be draconic in form, for I know few other creatures that have horns (or possibly wings) that extend from their head in such a manner.I'm sure we'll find out in due time, but it seems that assumptions are becomming more and more counterproductive.  What may have been a common belief (and not canon lore) in EQLive seems to hold little water with the new direction of the game lore.<div></div>

[Starness]

<P>Ok ok, so maybe did anyone think that the 8 symbols in that picture are for the 8 Gods we can worship in this expansion?</P> <P>People definately seem to mostly agree on a symbol for Tunare, Brell, and Rallos.</P> <P>Some of the other gods we can now worship have been tossed around. I just got to thinking, this symbol was used in a promotional piece. People seem to mostly agree they 8 symbols represent the gods. There are 8 gods we can worship... maybe not.</P> <P>About the other 2 symbols. Maybe the eye (seems to be found in dragon places) is to represent Woshi... He's touched by Tunare herself as the protector of the bloom of growth. If the promotional piece matches up with the symbol from EQLive then the eye is right below Tunare. Maybe... possibly...</P> <P>As far as the third symbol outside entirely, perhaps that's Mayong. There is text in game indicating he has, in our timeline, assended to godhood (or at least demi-deity level) and then left, presumably only undertaking the task to try to gleen some sort of information or some sort of power. He was with the gods and then came back, hence his being on the picture, but lower.</P>

[TheWays]

Staring at it even longer....maybe its hellboy?!<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Starness wrote:<BR> <P>Ok ok, so maybe did anyone think that the 8 symbols in that picture are for the 8 Gods we can worship in this expansion?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If they were not associated with the 8 gods we worship right now, then why would these very 8 symbols be found in the buff icon screenshot in the first post of this thread? I agree with you here.

[Skyriderv]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheWays wrote:Ever get that deja vu feeling....<img src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/fushiakumu/EoFloading.jpg">looks somewhat familiar eh?<img src="http://www.[Removed for Content].com/fushiakumu/symbol_edited.jpg">Seems this symbol may just may have already made its way to Norrath, or will shortly.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Isn't that symbol just above your last sentance the symbol for Veeshan?</div>

[ElnAckom]

I suppose that's part of the source of my bias: I <i>do </i>see a dragon! At least we're starting to narrow it down to two major representations that we have significant arguments for. That's a positive thing.Regarding the eyes, I asked Vhalen for a yes or no answer on whether or not the Barbarian and the Crying Eye were related. The answer is a definitive "no," they are not related.Quoth the Vhalen:<font color="#ff0000"><i>Most of the loading screens are comprised of multiple concepts. They are usually, not related. In this case, they are not related.</i><font color="#ffffff">Thank you VERY much, V, for giving us a definitive. It helps us eliminate one more item from the list of possibilities!</font></font><div></div>

[Moneta_]

Ok I recently (today) finished the 1st part of my deity quest for Innoruuk. The top part of the altar has this symbol that looks like a stylized version of the very symbol we are arguing about.<img src="http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/871/innyaltarqr5.jpg">For comparison each deity altar is tailor for that deity. Here is Tunare's as seen in Kelethin.<img src="http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7575/tunarealtarmi4.jpg">If that symbol is Veeshan why does it look so much like Innoruuk symbol on my Altar? Dark Elves were fanatical about Innoruuk that much is widely known. Why then would a symbol of Veeshan be all over Neriak? Not just on the floor in 3rd gate but also on the firepots in Neriak. That symbol was also used to represent Dark Elves on the old everquest site. Knowing all of this why would it be veeshan, other than some see a dragon?<div></div>

[Moneta_]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheWays wrote:<div></div><i>*Snip*</i>As you can tell, the center image now has a definitive set of ears beside the face rather than extended up from the top and what appears to be a crested ridgeline along the top of the head.  The "horn" shapes also have undergone some added detail.  If this is Innorruuk, and it very well may be, he is different than the images here:<img src="http://eq2images.station.sony.com/000/001/096/927.JPG">Albeit, they would be representations by completely different artists.  I believe it to be draconic in form, for I know few other creatures that have horns (or possibly wings) that extend from their head in such a manner.I'm sure we'll find out in due time, but it seems that assumptions are becomming more and more counterproductive.  What may have been a common belief (and not canon lore) in EQLive seems to hold little water with the new direction of the game lore.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Sorry for the double post, but. That looks a lot like a carving of what he really looked like. If you ever saw his Avatar in Plane of Hate he was one ugly sonofaB****.</div>

[TheKons]

<div></div>I really don't see why the center symbol would be veeshan. Like the above poster showed it has a very close resemblance to Inny's altar. It was used in Neriak widely also. I'm always open to all the opinions here but I just can't convince myself that it could be veeshan other than just saying that so it could be used as the creation story.<div></div><p>Message Edited by TheKons on <span class=date_text>01-03-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 PM</span>

[Dragowulf]

<blockquote><hr>TheKons wrote:<div></div>I really don't see why the center symbol would be veeshan. Like the above poster showed it has a very close resemblance to Inny's altar. It was used in Neriak widely also. I'm always open to all the opinions here but I just can't convince myself that it could be veeshan other than just saying that so it could be used as the creation story.<div></div><p>Message Edited by TheKons on <span class=date_text>01-03-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Well if it is veeshan, which i doubt, i beleive that the stone is the key that the shadowmen have and he is a part of it, i mean if they get ahold of the creator of dragons, no telling what they will dohighly unlikely, but possible

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dragowulf2 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheKons wrote:<BR> I really don't see why the center symbol would be veeshan. Like the above poster showed it has a very close resemblance to Inny's altar. It was used in Neriak widely also. I'm always open to all the opinions here but I just can't convince myself that it could be veeshan other than just saying that so it could be used as the creation story.<BR> <P>Message Edited by TheKons on <SPAN class=date_text>01-03-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:15 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Well if it is veeshan, which i doubt, i beleive that the stone is the key that the shadowmen have and he is a part of it, i mean if they get ahold of the creator of dragons, no telling what they will do<BR><BR>highly unlikely, but possible<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Veeshan is female, just FYI.

[Skyriderv]

<DIV>Why would that symbol represent inny?  The sheild of EQ II follows the symbol of EQL if im not mistaken,(showing both veeshan, brell, prexus, and tunare) *Is what I think  those marks are to the top, left, and right of *veeshan* in the creation story there wasn't a pact to keep inny in check, Inny had no real significant part in the creation story besides the  making the Dark-elfs and his own daughter of hate vs friona vie. He doesn't really have a huge roll so far in EQII (Compared to EQL) so it can't be his symbol on the shield, because there really isn't a point to make his symbol stand out IMO, if you think its inny sweet go for it, but IMO I think its veeshan.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/cleaneduptat.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/Expansion_Hint_sized.jpg"></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Skyriderv on <SPAN class=date_text>01-04-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:47 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Skyriderv on <span class=date_text>01-04-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:52 AM</span>

[RaphaNissi]

The creation story theory is just that.  A theory.  Part of the reason it stays a theory is because of that center symbol.  If it's Veeshan, why is it found all over Neriak and other things to do with the Teir'Dal?  If it is a symbol for Inny, then why is it so large and in the center of it all?  The symbol in the bottom right doesn't add up with that theory either.  If it stands for one of the "four horsemen" then why is it plastered all over Erudin?  If it stand for Quellious then why is it on the doors of the Temple of Prexus in Erudin?  Why isn't it on other things relating to Quellious?  Each theory given so far just doesn't add all up.  I'm beginning to think these symbols don't really represent what has been theorized about them since the beginning of EQ.<div></div>

[Vollux]

<P>What if the bat/dragon head is something from so far back in history there isn't a written record of it- only pictographs from pre-written history- I warning like the toxic flower on a bio-hazard container.  Something so deadly to Norrath that it was imperative that it be recorded somehow.  I could see the Dark Elves adopting the image in this case as racial pride.</P> <P>As to what the image represents my first thought was The Behemoth laying on Nektulos Forest Floor.  </P> <P>Also I would like to give a big thank you to aquaviann for the link to the old EQlive images of Neriak.  Once I saw that  Neon Winged Serpent again that adorned the walls deep in 3rd Gate the idea of The Behemoth being linked to this image made sense.</P> <P> </P> <P>edit for massive spelling corrections</P><p>Message Edited by Vollux on <span class=date_text>01-04-2007</span> <span class=time_text>06:28 PM</span>

[ElnAckom]

I'm gonna take a major step of concession here.The carving of Inny from the Tombs of Night was a totally unconvincing argument for me. I've said before, one of my strong suits is seeing graphical similarities and symbolic patterns. I didn't see it there. However, I DEFINITELY see the similarity between the center "V" symbol that I've been fairly strongly advocating as representative of Veeshan (because of it's rather profoundly-positive fit into that graphic set if you consider it as a creation myth representation) and the stylized altar / cloak symbol of Innoruuk.At this point, my assessment has evolved from "both merit some validity but I prefer Veeshan" to "there is a distinct and equal possiblity of the symbol representing either Veeshan or Innoruuk." The appearance of the symbol throughout EQ in Tier'Dal culture coupled with the profound similarity of style and representation between the "V" symbol and the known stylized symbol of Inny makes for a compelling argument.It is difficult to discount the Veeshan argument out-of-hand, but there is certainly a definite similarity that I think is difficult to ignore. As usual in this case, I don't believe any of us have found the DEFINITIVE and FINAL answer... but considering how vocal I've been on this issue, I feel the need to be equally as public about my sitting here now nodding and saying, "Yeah... yeah, wow, I definitely see that now..."For the record, Innoruuk camp proponents, I am really seeing your point of view right now.<div></div>

[Moneta_]

Another reason I don't think Veeshan is the symbols shown throughout Velious in Dragon areas in EQ1. I also saw the same symbol on a tapestry, exactly like the Velious ones EQ1, in someone's house recently as well. Throghout Velious it was a either an Eye or Dragon surrounding a circle in Dragon areas.I will admit that the symbol would be nice and neat if it was Veeshan. However it wouldn't make any sense for it to be so used in Neriak. I guess it makes more sense to me to be Innoruuk/Dark Elf related and there is some meaning to the symbol that none of us know. I guess if anyone knows Brad McQuaid we should just ask him. Since the symbol is from EQ1 I'm sure he knows. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><div></div>

[Skyriderv]

<div></div>Why would Neriak have the symbols of the other gods then? It doesn't make sense, okay lets say that symbol is Innoruuk (every other symbol represents a god but why is innoruuk the only one with a picture? why doesn't the city of Erudin do the same?), Why have the symbols of the other gods then? I mean your completely devoted to the god of hatred why put symbols of other gods when you worship one? It doesn't add up, unless those symbols weren't made for worshipping but a reminder or an event or something historiclly significant.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Skyriderv on <span class=date_text>01-04-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:45 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skyriderv wrote:<BR>Why would Neriak have the symbols of the other gods then? it doesn't make sense, okay lets say that symbol is Innoruuk, why have the symbols of the other gods then? I mean your completely devoted to the god of hatred why put symbols of other gods when you worship one? It doesn't add up, unless those symbols weren't made for worshipping but a reminder or an event or something historiclly significant.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hate above all.

[DreamerClou]

I do believe that center batlike / dragonlike symbol is definetly representative of Dark Elven culture.  However I do not think that the Dark Elves "discovered" or "created" the symbol.  For some reason I have the feeling they somehow "adopted" this symbol.  Meaning this symbol was around before the Dark Elves.

[DreamerClou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skyriderv wrote:<BR> Why would Neriak have the symbols of the other gods then? It doesn't make sense, okay lets say that symbol is Innoruuk (every other symbol represents a god but why is innoruuk the only one with a picture? why doesn't the city of Erudin do the same?), Why have the symbols of the other gods then? I mean your completely devoted to the god of hatred why put symbols of other gods when you worship one? It doesn't add up, unless those symbols weren't made for worshipping but a reminder or an event or something historiclly significant.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Skyriderv on <SPAN class=date_text>01-04-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:45 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Cusa said it well.  Hate above all.  The reason, in our opinion, that the symbol is so huge compared to the others is to show how much better and superior the Dark Elven culture / beliefs are when compared to the lesser cultures / entities.

[ElnAckom]

<div></div>We've looked at this symbol through Tier'Dal eyes already, but perhaps we need to again...Is there validity to the argument that the center symbol, if Innoruuk, is the primary and most prominent symbol not because of the importance of Innoruuk to Norrath from a neutral point of view, but due to the importance of Innoruuk and the Tier'Dal from a Tier'Dal point of view?Is there validity to the symbol representing the Tier'Dal serving as a major force for change, perhaps involving Innoruuk and perhaps not, for the next major chapter to affect the races on Norrath?Perhaps it's a Tier'Dal symbol we're looking at, the whole kit and kaboodle. /shrugCoincidentally, I'm not totally abandoning my Veeshan thoughts until Vhalen says "all ye who are Sesketh, abandon hope!" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><i>(Edit for silly redundant grammar, sorry.)</i><p>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <span class=date_text>01-05-2007</span> <span class=time_text>05:58 PM</span>

[Dragowulf]

<blockquote><hr>ElnAckom wrote:<div></div>We've looked at this symbol through Tier'Dal eyes already, but perhaps we need to again...Is there validity to the argument that the center symbol, if Innoruuk, is the primary and most prominent symbol not because of the importance of Innoruuk to Norrath from a neutral point of view, but due to the importance of Innoruuk and the Tier'Dal from a Tier'Dal point of view?Is there validity to the symbol representing the Tier'Dal serving as a major force for change, perhaps involving Innoruuk and perhaps not, for the next major chapter to affect the races on Norrath?Perhaps it's a Tier'Dal symbol we're looking at, the whole kit and kaboodle. /shrugCoincidentally, I'm not totally abandoning my Veeshan thoughts until Vhalen says "all ye who are Sesketh, abandon hope!" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><i>(Edit for silly redundant grammar, sorry.)</i><p>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <span class=date_text>01-05-2007</span> <span class=time_text>05:58 PM</span><hr></blockquote>Well, it seems unlikely that it would be Veeshan, looking at the facts that the dark elves use that symbol. The symbol could be anything, it could of been there before they came along(likely), and they just adopted it into their culture.Vesshan did have a lot to do with norrath, creating the dragons, which have a HUGE influence on norrath and its history.questions are why/how would it be veeshan?and why/how would it be inny.

[Skyriderv]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Dragowulf2 wrote:<blockquote><hr>ElnAckom wrote:<div></div>We've looked at this symbol through Tier'Dal eyes already, but perhaps we need to again...Is there validity to the argument that the center symbol, if Innoruuk, is the primary and most prominent symbol not because of the importance of Innoruuk to Norrath from a neutral point of view, but due to the importance of Innoruuk and the Tier'Dal from a Tier'Dal point of view?Is there validity to the symbol representing the Tier'Dal serving as a major force for change, perhaps involving Innoruuk and perhaps not, for the next major chapter to affect the races on Norrath?Perhaps it's a Tier'Dal symbol we're looking at, the whole kit and kaboodle. /shrugCoincidentally, I'm not totally abandoning my Veeshan thoughts until Vhalen says "all ye who are Sesketh, abandon hope!" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><i>(Edit for silly redundant grammar, sorry.)</i><p>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <span class="date_text">01-05-2007</span> <span class="time_text">05:58 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Well, it seems unlikely that it would be Veeshan, looking at the facts that the dark elves use that symbol. The symbol could be anything, it could of been there before they came along(likely), and they just adopted it into their culture.Vesshan did have a lot to do with norrath, creating the dragons, which have a HUGE influence on norrath and its history.questions are why/how would it be veeshan?and why/how would it be inny.<hr></blockquote><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/cleaneduptat.jpg">Well because Dark elves hate everything including their creator, the way I see it, why isn't the symbol just by it self? Why does it have Brell on the top, Tunare to the left, and prexus to the right it doesn't add up why even have the other god symbols there? is it to remind them everyday which gods they hate? (darn  you tunare! For creating the pansy  wood elves and the high elves! You best hope we don't cross paths otherwise ill shove that ever growing garden where the sun doesn't shine!). Why doesn't any other society use actuall pictographs of there gods?</div><p>Message Edited by Skyriderv on <span class=date_text>01-05-2007</span> <span class=time_text>06:58 PM</span>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Skyriderv wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Dragowulf2 wrote:<blockquote><hr>ElnAckom wrote:<div></div>We've looked at this symbol through Tier'Dal eyes already, but perhaps we need to again...Is there validity to the argument that the center symbol, if Innoruuk, is the primary and most prominent symbol not because of the importance of Innoruuk to Norrath from a neutral point of view, but due to the importance of Innoruuk and the Tier'Dal from a Tier'Dal point of view?Is there validity to the symbol representing the Tier'Dal serving as a major force for change, perhaps involving Innoruuk and perhaps not, for the next major chapter to affect the races on Norrath?Perhaps it's a Tier'Dal symbol we're looking at, the whole kit and kaboodle. /shrugCoincidentally, I'm not totally abandoning my Veeshan thoughts until Vhalen says "all ye who are Sesketh, abandon hope!" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><i>(Edit for silly redundant grammar, sorry.)</i><p>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <span class="date_text">01-05-2007</span> <span class="time_text">05:58 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Well, it seems unlikely that it would be Veeshan, looking at the facts that the dark elves use that symbol. The symbol could be anything, it could of been there before they came along(likely), and they just adopted it into their culture.Vesshan did have a lot to do with norrath, creating the dragons, which have a HUGE influence on norrath and its history.questions are why/how would it be veeshan?and why/how would it be inny.<hr></blockquote><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/cleaneduptat.jpg">Well because Dark elves hate everything including their creator, the way I see it, why isn't the symbol just by it self? Why does it have Brell on the top, Tunare to the left, and prexus to the right it doesn't add up why even have the other god symbols there? is it to remind them everyday which gods they hate? (darn  you tunare! For creating the pansy  wood elves and the high elves! You best hope we don't cross paths otherwise ill shove that ever growing garden where the sun doesn't shine!). Why doesn't any other society use actuall pictographs of there gods?</div><p>Message Edited by Skyriderv on <span class="date_text">01-05-2007</span> <span class="time_text">06:58 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>We don't even know for sure those are symbols of Tunare and Brell and Prexus.  Ya know, a thought just came as I was typing this out.  Maybe since this symbol seems so old, it was made up before there was a written language of any kind.  Maybe it is similar to hieroglyphics in that the symbols represent an idea rather than a specific deity or race.  Just a thought,</div>

[Shackleton1]

<P>Regarding the eye = veeshan. This is based on screenshot on previous page which shows the eye on an obelisk in... uuh.. is it skyfire mountains?</P> <P>But... the picture below it has the spiral symbol in it. Yet the spiral symbol isn't veeshan (I presume)</P> <P>As far as I can tell, its all a bit mixed up. Reading through the different theories nothing seems to fit perfectly with absolutely everything so I think you have to disregard the odd exception. My guess is that either the symbols have some power which makes them useful to all those who seek power, regardless of what race they follow... or the symbols just crop up anywhere once in a while because the gods are a bit like that, being gods and not villagers who just hang around in one zone.. or the zone artists weren't fully cogniscant of every detail they put in ("Oh! An eye graphic! Neat, I'll use that here... Karana who?")</P> <P>So if the eye is a god then I think the eye is something other than veeshan <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Also, nine dots is Tunare I think. There's more references to this than just the protection of the nine spell in EQLive. The druid rings traditionally had nine stones representing the dots. I'm not sure how this worked in practise... but that's what they are supposed to be, I'm pretty sure. And I can't remember [Removed for Content] it was in reference to, but I seem to recall nine dots = tunare being pretty well established in EQLive.</P> <P>*Edit* I'll add to that. I'm not a great scholar or loremaster, but it makes sense to me if the symbols represent the gods released with EoF.</P> <P>There are nine identifiable symbols. There were supposed to be nine emissaries that told of the forecoming gods (i.e the pre EoF deity quests). I remember that because I wondered if nine emissaries meant they were all coming from Tunare (I was wrong). But only 8 happened. One got scratched due to time constraints, and presumably the god did too. So there are supposed to be nine deities in EoF.</P> <P>The eight deities that were released:</P> <P>Inny = the bat</P> <P>RZ = the bottom left thingy</P> <P>Quellious = the bottom right thingy</P> <P>Cazic = the cross (bones)</P> <P>Tunare = the dots</P> <P>Brell = the candelabra</P> <P>That leaves the eye, the spiral and the wavey lines. And we have Marr, Solro and... um... oh yes! The scrapped and missing 9th god! Who would have been neutral.</P> <P>So maybe the eye = solro?, spiral = marr?, waves = prexus?, who is the unimplemented EoF 9th god (incidentally, is there any chance the three waves means some other god? Is it *definitely* prexus?).</P> <P>There's also the tenth symbol which has been removed (the symbol scraped off) in the picture. Presumably because at the time the picture was drawn nine gods were to be released with EoF, and the 10th god had some other significance with the story. Some god got his/her behind kicked.</P> <P>*edit 2* <P>Going back to the OP, who pointed to the eight icons with symbols on them. <STRONG>Eight</STRONG> icons. Because one of the gods wasn't implemented. I think that sort of proves it. But interestingly, the missing symbol is the eye. The waves are in. That means the waves mean one of the currently implemented gods. <P>So my revised schema is that: <P>Inny = the bat</P> <P>RZ = the bottom left thingy</P> <P>Quellious = the bottom right thingy</P> <P>Cazic = the cross (bones)</P> <P>Tunare = the dots</P> <P>Brell = the candelabra</P> <P>Marr = the three wavey lines. Dunno why. But seems more likely than Solro = three wavey lines</P> <P>Solro = the spiral.</P> <P>Unimplemented god = the eye. Who would probably be Karana, much more likely as an unimplemented god than Prexus and seems to fit pretty well.</P><p>Message Edited by Shackleton1 on <span class=date_text>01-06-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:47 AM</span>

[ElnAckom]

To a few posters above, I'm not going to rehash the whole creation myth thing, but no one has implied the spiral is Veeshan. Reread the thread for thorough arguments regarding the creation myth and Veeshan as a possibility for the central symbol. The fact that the symbol appears in Tier'Dal culture does not eliminate Veeshan as a possibility; It is an argument against Veeshan, and a strong one at that, but it proves nothing.<div></div>

[Shackleton1]

By the by, you might find confirmation of the meaning of the symbols on the deity cloaks. The Quellious cloak has the Quellious symbol on it, I'm pretty sure.

[Draco the Grey]

<div><blockquote><hr>Shackleton1 wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>Regarding the eye = veeshan. This is based on screenshot on previous page which shows the eye on an obelisk in... uuh.. is it skyfire mountains?</p> <p>But... the picture below it has the spiral symbol in it. Yet the spiral symbol isn't veeshan (I presume)</p> <p>As far as I can tell, its all a bit mixed up. Reading through the different theories nothing seems to fit perfectly with absolutely everything so I think you have to disregard the odd exception. My guess is that either the symbols have some power which makes them useful to all those who seek power, regardless of what race they follow... or the symbols just crop up anywhere once in a while because the gods are a bit like that, being gods and not villagers who just hang around in one zone.. or the zone artists weren't fully cogniscant of every detail they put in ("Oh! An eye graphic! Neat, I'll use that here... Karana who?")</p> <p>So if the eye is a god then I think the eye is something other than veeshan <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a connection between the eye and Veeshan.  Look closely at the placement of the eye symbol in the overall image.  Notice how it cuts a huge gash into the edge of the globe.  It doesn't seem to me that a detail like that would be lacking in significance...As for the 2nd (removed/missing) symbol... Looking at the large circle as Norrath, its placement suggests to me a moon, perhaps.  Say, one that couldn't be seen, or was "removed" so to speak.  Just a thought...</div>

[ChildofHate]

<P>The central image is for Innoruuk / Teir`Dal.  No matter how you "slice that pie", the bottom line is that image represent (always has and unless a dev throws out the "because i said so" card, it always will represent Innoruuk and Teir`Dal.  Has nothing to do with Veeshan.</P> <P align=center><IMG src="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg"></P> <P align=center><A href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg" target=_blank>http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg</A></P> <P align=center>The above is image (and related link) is brought to you by the letters S O and E and the number 989.</P> <P> </P>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChildofHate wrote:<BR> <P>The central image is for Innoruuk / Teir`Dal.  No matter how you "slice that pie", the bottom line is that image represent (always has and unless a dev throws out the "because i said so" card, it always will represent Innoruuk and Teir`Dal.  Has nothing to do with Veeshan.</P> <P align=center><IMG src="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg"></P> <P align=center><A href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg" target=_blank>http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg</A></P> <P align=center>The above is image (and related link) is brought to you by the letters S O and E and the number 989.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>THANK YOU! I was hoping someone would point that out.

[TerabithianWhisperwi]

<div></div> well. My two cents here are as follows... 1). The centermost (and largest) indicates the Teir'Dal. 2). The runes underneath  spell "The Future Of Everquest II" my hypothesis is that the assumption that the next expansion (the evil one) will be Cabilis-related is incorrect, and that as much as it pains me to say it, it is perhaps centered around the Teir'Dal instead. I wonder what is seperating the stuff inside the "circle" (looks more like crosshairs or something) from the stuff outside?<p>Message Edited by TerabithianWhisperwind on <span class=date_text>01-17-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:44 AM</span>

[ChildofHate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChildofHate wrote:<BR> <P>The central image is for Innoruuk / Teir`Dal.  No matter how you "slice that pie", the bottom line is that image represent (always has and unless a dev throws out the "because i said so" card, it always will represent Innoruuk and Teir`Dal.  Has nothing to do with Veeshan.</P> <P align=center><IMG src="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg"></P> <P align=center><A href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg" target=_blank>http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg</A></P> <P align=center>The above is image (and related link) is brought to you by the letters S O and E and the number 989.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>THANK YOU! I was hoping someone would point that out.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>:smileywink:</P> <P>did you like the 989 reference?  That'll weed out who is truly old school (or those who are now doing a google to try to look like they are old school).  heh.</P><p>Message Edited by ChildofHate on <span class=date_text>01-17-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:24 AM</span>

[Moneta_]

<div><blockquote><hr>ChildofHate wrote:<div></div> <p>The central image is for Innoruuk / Teir`Dal.  No matter how you "slice that pie", the bottom line is that image represent (always has and unless a dev throws out the "because i said so" card, it always will represent Innoruuk and Teir`Dal.  Has nothing to do with Veeshan.</p> <p align="center"><img src="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg"></p> <p align="center"><a href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg" target="_blank">http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg</a></p> <p align="center">The above is image (and related link) is brought to you by the letters S O and E and the number 989.</p> <hr></blockquote>I looked for that and failed. Thanks for finding it. </div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChildofHate wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChildofHate wrote:<BR> <P>The central image is for Innoruuk / Teir`Dal.  No matter how you "slice that pie", the bottom line is that image represent (always has and unless a dev throws out the "because i said so" card, it always will represent Innoruuk and Teir`Dal.  Has nothing to do with Veeshan.</P> <P align=center><IMG src="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg"></P> <P align=center><A href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg" target=_blank>http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/i/icons/Races/dark_elf.jpg</A></P> <P align=center>The above is image (and related link) is brought to you by the letters S O and E and the number 989.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>THANK YOU! I was hoping someone would point that out.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>:smileywink:</P> <P>did you like the 989 reference?  That'll weed out who is truly old school (or those who are now doing a google to try to look like they are old school).  heh.</P> <P>Message Edited by ChildofHate on <SPAN class=date_text>01-17-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:24 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yeah I remember back when VERANT Interactive was developing the game under 989 Studios (which was Sony's subsidiary back then.)

[Draco the Grey]

<P>Here I go bumping a thread that had been dormant for 11 days and the ensuing discussion is... completely unrelated to either of my points.  I thought I had noticed something discussion worthy. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I think its pretty clear that the central symbol is that of Innoruuk, but what is the significance of the size and central placement of his symbol within the context of the image? The text reads "The Future of Everquest II" and while this obviously points to the secret code embedded in the text ("Fae are coming winter 2006" - the code is in the notches on the left and right of the text), is the text also referring to the image itself? Perhaps this points to a central role for Inny and/or the Teir'Dal in some future event.</P><BR><IMG src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/Expansion_Hint_sized.jpg">

[Moneta_]

Well considering the Tier'Dal presense on Faydwer during EQ1 time and events leading up to EQ2 it would be interesting that maybe there is something as yet unrevealed in the expansion relating to the Innoruuk or his Dark Elves.<div></div>

[Crombie]

<DIV> <P>I can't seem to shake the idea that perhaps the Eye symbol on the image is something other than veeshan ... though there are similarities in other findings.  The way the eye seems to devour a portion of the original set of symbols almost makes me think its trying to make its place in the greatness of the gods creations... or perhaps disrupt the ballance.  The symbol itself being an eye would also persuade me to think it stands for one thing, The Awakened... formally known as The Sleeper.  The Awakened is talked about throughout Kingdom of Sky, and directly in the Claymore quest line...which would bring up a series of other question (a sword of great power in possesion by The Awakened? omg)  The Dragon Banners with the Eye symbol, as posted previously, hang from the walls of places where Droags reside (The followers of The Awakened).  Perhaps the Awakened has more of a hand to play in the world of Norrath, signifying the chunk of the inner circle it seems to have voided out.  /shrugs just a thought</P> <P>Oh btw, the Quellious avatar awarded this to a person who decided to set down their weapons and be at peace.</P> <P>The symbol certainly makes me curious since it doesnt agree with previous statements of what it represents.</P> <P><IMG src="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/images/Icons/icon_item_3005.jpg">   <A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/items/item_profile.vm?itemId=150270" target=_blank>Click Here</A> ~ Item Link (Stone of Tranquility)</P> <P>Edit ~</P> <P>The symbols on the picture below seemed to pop out at me when I looked at it again</P> <P><IMG src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/Expansion_Hint_sized.jpg"></P> <P> </P> <P>The 3 symbols in the inner circle along the edges are all symbols from the Druid rings.  From the top going clockwise ~ A Tree being struck by lightning, a Tree, and Waves/wind washing over the tree.  The Symbol on the bottom that looks like an X is shattered and almost looks as if something was Removed from its socket...since the area inside the circle is darker almost making it look like a depression... though I havent the faintest idea what.</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Crombie on <span class=date_text>01-18-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:37 AM</span>

[ChildofHate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Draco the Grey wrote:<BR> <P>Here I go bumping a thread that had been dormant for 11 days and the ensuing discussion is... completely unrelated to either of my points.  I thought I had noticed something discussion worthy. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I think its pretty clear that the central symbol is that of Innoruuk, but what is the significance of the size and central placement of his symbol within the context of the image? The text reads "The Future of Everquest II" and while this obviously points to the secret code embedded in the text ("Fae are coming winter 2006" - the code is in the notches on the left and right of the text), is the text also referring to the image itself? Perhaps this points to a central role for Inny and/or the Teir'Dal in some future event.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think the images is simply meant to reflect the basis of what is shown here:</P> <P><IMG src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/cleaneduptat.jpg"></P> <P>As for the additional imagery though on the inside ring and the two odd-ball ones on the outside, it is curious why they would change (and be added).  But the size of the dark elf / inny image was always dominate as well as placement of the four corner images haven't changed.  Curious that the inner three though have and why the addition of the two on the outside which have no sense of symmetry with the rest of the image.  I would think, that because they are out of place, maybe they foreshadow their impact on the world?  Not sure though why the inner ones simply changed in design...<BR></P>

[Vollux]

<DIV>Great information there!  So the possiblity exists the other 7 stone icons are also a Charm reward from the Avatars for holding up to ones beliefs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The gentle waves stone icon is from Quellious avatar is delicous information.  I seached the Item database for anything else with "Stone of"  and it looks like this is the first one found, and only 4 or 5 servers so far.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>edit:</P> <P>Also Crombie wrote:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>The 3 symbols in the inner circle along the edges are all symbols from the Druid rings.  From the top going clockwise ~ A Tree being struck by lightning, a Tree, and Waves/wind washing over the tree.  The Symbol on the bottom that looks like an X is shattered and almost looks as if something was Removed from its socket...since the area inside the circle is darker almost making it look like a depression... though I havent the faintest idea what.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I thought I saw a tree in one of the new icons added to the device also but could never find an in game example to compare it against.  More and more this seems to me to be the device that the shadowmen are planning on using to control Woushi's mind.  Since Woushi is a very much the 'druid' of dragonkind it makes since Lorewise to me at least.</P> <P> </P> <P>on the other hand- this kinda rules out the stone icons being a part of Everlings Runic key from the dawn of time. </P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Vollux on <SPAN class=date_text>01-18-2007</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:56 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Vollux on <span class=date_text>01-18-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:56 AM</span>