EQ Elvish

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>There are but a few words in 'Elvish' that I am aware of in the various EQ variants.  I am wondering if anyone else has any others they may add to the list.</p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Ayr</strong>                          meaning 'outcast', or 'mongrel' or 'misfit'</p><p><strong>Aros</strong>                        meaning 'rose' (from Aros 'Thalinor (Rosethorn Spire from EQoA lore))</p><p><strong>Dae</strong>                         meaning ?  (from The Ewer of Sul 'Dae)</p><p><strong>Dal</strong>                          meaning 'elf'</p><p><strong>Fier</strong>                         meaning 'wood', or 'forest' (Possibly meaning 'wild')</p><p><strong>Fyr </strong>                         meaning 'life' (as in Fyr 'Un - River of Life)</p><p><strong>Holciel</strong>                    meaning 'tomb'?  (from Holciel Rowen 'Dal)</p><p><strong>Hiz</strong>                          meaning 'capitol'? (as in Takish 'Hiz)</p><p><strong>Koada</strong>                     meaning 'high' or 'chosen'?</p><p><strong>Myr</strong>                         meaning 'cave', or 'underground'?</p><p><strong>Myre</strong>                       meaning?</p><p><strong>Renda</strong>                     meaning 'pure' (Renda 'Dal)</p><p><strong>Rowen</strong>                    meaning crown'? (from Holciel Rowen 'Dal Tombs of the Crown)</p><p><strong>Tak</strong>                         meaning 'city', or 'town' ? (from EQoA maps Tak 'Xiv, and Tak 'Xiz)</p><p><strong>Tal </strong>                         meaning 'evil'?</p><p><strong>Takish</strong>                    meaning? (from Takish 'Hiz)</p><p><strong>Teir</strong>                        meaning 'abyss' </p><p><strong>Thalinor  </strong>               meaning 'spire' or 'tower'</p><p><strong>Thex </strong>                     meaning 'leader' or 'ruler' (though possibly just a family name).</p><p><strong>Shenba</strong>                  meaning 'wanderer' or 'gypsy' (from EQ table-top RPG)</p><p><strong>Sul </strong>                        meaning 'desert', or 'sand'  (Possibly meaning 'death' or 'undeath')</p><p><strong>Un</strong>                          meaning 'river'? (as in Fyr 'Un River of Life))</p><p><strong>Xiv</strong>                         meaning?</p><p><strong>Xiz</strong>                         meaning?</p><p>I know there are some odd words in 'Thexian' floating around as well.  Is 'Thexian' the same language as Elvish, or is it a distictly different Teir 'Dal Elvish language?  And if so, how much different is it than the other Elvish languages?</p><p>One thing that seems to be a common identifier is the apostophe'd diacritical present in all forms of EQ Elvish words.  This makes me wonder if Maj 'Dul might also be included in this lexicon.   Even though it is not an Elvish city, it's name may be Elvish in origin.  (If 'Dal means Elf, then perhaps 'Dul means non-Elf?)</p><p>Another thing I notice is the similarities between 'Fier', and 'Fyr'. Fyr 'Un is translated as the 'River of Life', though which word means 'river', and which word means 'life' is not known.   Perhaps they are variant spellings of the same word which means 'life'.  That would give the Fier 'Dal a literal translation of 'Life Elf'.</p><p>It is also interesting in the similarity between the words 'Tak', and 'Takish', both of which refer to cities or towns.</p><p>I am inclined to believe that the word 'thex' is a title rather than a family name.  If it were merely a family name then the 'Thexians' would be supporters of the Thex royal family (of which the Felwithe is also a baranch).  However if it were to represent a title instead of a family name, then the 'Thexians' would roughly translate as 'royalists'.  Perhaps a fine line of difference, but the evidence is not conclusive in either case.</p><p><em><span style="font-size: x-small;">edited to include new additions</span></em></p>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>There's now the "Myr'Dal", those Trollish-Goblinish-Troglodites found in the Mistmoore Catacombs too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yeah. Don't forget the Sul'Dal of Desert of Flames.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class=date_text>11-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:07 AM</span>

[RaphaNissi]

<div></div>Don't forget Renda'Dal, the name of the New Tunarians. <span>:smileywink:edit:  There is also the Pagoda of Tal'Thex which is mentioned in the 1001 Tales of Maj'Dul.  It was a citadel the elves created to keep evil artifacts safe from the world.  "Hide evil from evil" is the description used in the tale.  </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by RaphaNissi on <span class=date_text>11-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:49 AM</span>

[Coccinea_Maga]

<DIV>I believe the spelling is Myre'Dal, per the faction messages received from killing the New Tunarians.</DIV>

[the flu]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mary the Prophetess wrote: <div>There are but a few words in 'Elvish' that I am aware of in the various EQ variants.  I am wondering if anyone else has any others they may add to the list.</div> <div> </div> <div><strong>Ayr</strong>            meaning 'outcast', or 'mongrel'<hr size="2" width="100%"></div></blockquote><div><div align="left">I think this may actually mean Misfit (as in the isle of misfit toys). That is the definiition I get I think from the eq2 manual, though I don't have it in front of me.</div></div><blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%"><div> </div> <div>I know there are some odd words in 'Thexian' floating around as well.  Is 'Thexian' the same language as Elvish, or is it a distictly different Teir 'Dal Elvish language?  And if so, how much different is it than the other Elvish languages?</div> <div> <hr size="2" width="100%"></div> <div></div></blockquote><div>I think that Thexian, Ayr'Dal, Fier'dal and Kaoda'dal, at least when referring to languages, are more dialectual than different languages. At most, they are different the way spanish, french and italian are different. The basics of grammer  and even many of the words will be the same, but there are enough differences that they could be classed as not the same. Ayr'dal is more of a mix of common(norathian) and generic elven, so would fall sort of like english does with reguard to french and german- resembling the main parent language but heavily influenced by the other parent language(s)</div><blockquote><div></div></blockquote></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Coccinea_Maga wrote:<BR> <DIV>I believe the spelling is Myre'Dal, per the faction messages received from killing the New Tunarians.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I've never seen any faction messages about the Myr'dal when killing high elves. Only bad faction with themselves.</P>

[Methriln]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Coccinea_Maga wrote:<BR> <DIV>I believe the spelling is Myre'Dal, per the faction messages received from killing the New Tunarians.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I've never seen any faction messages about the Myr'dal when killing high elves. Only bad faction with themselves.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I got messages saying i got faction with them. Least on beta havent been to new tunaria since then 

[DarrkElf]

I named one of my alts,a Wood Elf Ranger, "Kethali", which is elvish for Wind Shadow.

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarrkElf wrote:<BR> I named one of my alts,a Wood Elf Ranger, "Kethali", which is elvish for Wind Shadow.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That wouldn't be based on Tolkien, is it? If it is, i'm afraid it doesn't have that much merit here.

[Zarafein]

<DIV>Wind shadow would be something different in Sindarin or Quenya.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wouldn't "light" or something close to light fit better to Koada then "pure"(if it isn't "high")?("she walked through the woods and admired a glint of light dancing on the edge of her silken gown. She touched the light and spoke to it and the Koada'Dal were born. ") Pure could fit better to Renda.<BR></DIV>

[Mary the Prophetess]

Actually, the <STRONG>literal</STRONG> translation could just as well be 'light', or 'enlightened', or 'chosen', as it could 'pure' or 'high'.  We simply do not know the exact literal translation, so we approximate the intended nuances of meaning.

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Mary, you need to put down Myr'Dal for the troglodites living in Mistmoore Catacombs.</DIV>

[Mary the Prophetess]

fixed

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mary the Prophetess wrote:<BR> fixed<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No.</P> <P> </P> <P>Myr are the troglodites of Mistmoore Catacombs</P> <P>MYRE are the high elves who want to fix things.</P>

[DonalDubh]

<div></div>OK, I am confused. The New Tunarians are the Renda'DalThe troglodytes are the Myr'Dal Here is more fun for you... Sul'Dal is Sand Elf, right? so...What are Rin'Dal and Ara'Dal? (also found in Living Tombs) see <a href="http://www.eq2i.com/articles/Dal" target="_new">Dal page at EQ2i</a> for my adaptation of some of the information from this page. You are welcome, of course, to edit the page there, as EQ2i is a wiki and contributions by all are welcome! <div></div><p>Message Edited by DonalDubh on <span class=date_text>01-24-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:56 AM</span>

[ChildofHate]

<P>When i saw the title of this thread, i shuddered and cringed half expecting to see a post filled with "Drow" and "Middle Earth" references strewn all about.</P> <P>THANK THE GODS (aside from meager replies) it wasn't.  /big hugs for Mary.</P> <P> </P> <P>Aside from the "Who are you to tell me how to play / RP" card that people like to throw, i will never understand why people insist on trying to impliment hacked up, hybrid lore from other sources of fantasy into the world of Norrath.  There is so much to learn and know in the world of Norrath.  Supplimenting it with language and lore that just doesn't belong is (generally speaking) laziness on a player's part in regards to actually taking the time to get to know their world.  "Well there isn't any elvish written in English for the game."  Is it me, or does that statement not make sense.  There isn't any Chinese written in english either... so i am failing to understand the logic behind that arguement unless what you meant to say is that there is no Romanized representation (yes, that's the correct terminology).  Even so, that doesn't justify by any means supplimenting it with languages from other fantasy literature.  You wouldn't go speak Klingon to Jabba the Hut.  There... is... no ... difference.  Period.</P> <P>Then you have the arguement "It's all just different slices of the same cake."  No, it isn't.  That's a blanket statement used in hopes someone wont dig further and show that is the only real arguement you have which cannot be defended any further then silent contempt.  Perfect example:  If you can roleplay a Drow in EQ, why not roleplay a Jedi?  If drow are no different then Teir`Dal, then Jedi are no different then Paladins.  Sith are no different them Shadowknights.  Oh wait... you can't RP a star wars character in EQ?  Why not?  it's fantasy based... Just a different slice of the same fantasy cake!  Wait, analogy doesnt sit well with some because it logically defeats the idea of attempting to rp as a drow?  hmm... funny how that works.</P> <P>I tested this exact idea out with one of the "Drow-ish" guilds on my server.  Asked if i could join with my Ogre.  Initially, it all seemed great until i told them i was an Ogre Sith alcolyte and my master had been slain and i was struggling with the dark and the light side of the Force.  I was looking for someone to guide and train me.  I was regarded with what you might expect... "This isn't Star Wars.  There are no such things as Sith or Jedi or the Force in Norrath."  Maintaining my haughty roleplay air like any "Drow player who sticks to their 'cant tell me how to rp' guns" would, i persisted... and subsequently got ridiculed about my rp practices and was told that if i wanted to roleplay a Star Wars character i should go play SWG... and then got booted.  Ahhh hypocracy, dont ya love it.  There is no such thing as Sith on Norrath...  nor are there Drow... Mithrandians... vulcans...  NASCAR drivers or partridges in pear trees.</P> <P>Ya, i know this throws the thread a little off, but it does set a perfect stage to analyse something like this.</P>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<P>I have no particular problem with 'importing' fantasy languages from other milieus for roleplay purposes, so long as you do not also import the culture they are associated with, and so long as they remain in the fan fiction realm.</P> <P>This is sometimes a necessity if there is no 'in-house' language on which to draw.</P> <P>I had hoped however, that with the release of EoF we might have had a few more Elvish words upon which to build a vocabulary.  Alas, this seems not to be the case.</P> <P>In order to have a functional in-house language, there would need to be a vocabulary of about 4-600 words including tenses plurals articles and a variety of verbs nouns adjectives pronouns and prepositions.  A large task to ask of any developer, particularly since there are so many different racial languages that would need to be invented.</P> <P>In the absence of such a language, players are forced to borrow or invent.  The only problem is in the mixing of different races from different millieus, particularly if it is presented as somehow official.</P>

[Sartredes]

For roleplay purposes, couldn't one just just change their languange setting to the language of their race and speak normally?  Those characters that know the language, will understand you, thoses that don't won't.While I admit that the translation of in-game languages is interesting, I'm mildly entertained by the "need" of elven, especially dark elven, roleplayers to have a full blown vocabulary to actually speak.  What I mean is there is never a discussion about the gnomish, dwarvish, trollish, or other racial languanges.  I suppose the intricities of "Grunt, Ooo, ooh, (burp), rarrr" are less interesting.To each their own. If it adds to an individual's or a groups'  enjoyment of their roleplay, then great.<div></div>

[IrishWonder]

<P>I'mma race car driver tryin' ta bring up the sport in this foreign land called Norrath. Our cart was doin' real good most o'tha day 'till we got two-wide on the backstretch with Jeffius Gordonoficus. Started bumpin' a little and just lost a back spoke, threw the horse all outta synch and spun 'er up into the ramparts. I do wanna thank my pit crew and my sponsors, though... all the folks at Matsy Rollingpin's Delectable Dishes and the Seafarer's Roost. Will get her back runnin' and be back next weekend for a win. WHOOO!!<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChildofHate wrote:<BR> <P>There is no such thing as Sith on Norrath...  nor are there Drow... Mithrandians... vulcans...  NASCAR drivers or partridges in pear trees.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nooo! You've ruined my perfect world!!! HELP ME TOM CRUISE!!!!</P>

[DreamerClou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IrishWonder wrote:<BR> <P>I'mma race car driver tryin' ta bring up the sport in this foreign land called Norrath. Our cart was doin' real good most o'tha day 'till we got two-wide on the backstretch with Jeffius Gordonoficus. Started bumpin' a little and just lost a back spoke, threw the horse all outta synch and spun 'er up into the ramparts. I do wanna thank my pit crew and my sponsors, though... all the folks at Matsy Rollingpin's Delectable Dishes and the Seafarer's Roost. Will get her back runnin' and be back next weekend for a win. WHOOO!!<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChildofHate wrote:<BR> <P>There is no such thing as Sith on Norrath...  nor are there Drow... Mithrandians... vulcans...  NASCAR drivers or partridges in pear trees.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nooo! You've ruined my perfect world!!! HELP ME TOM CRUISE!!!!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>L - O - L    haha</P>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>Well, seeing as there are no prohibitions for necro-posting on the History and Lore forums, I will resurrect this thread, (briefly), to ask if there are any more Elvish words or phrases that can be added to this list started years ago.  The last list was made after EoF was released, and that was some time back.  Has the release of the Shadow Odessy revealed any new words that can be added to the list?</p><p>It would be great if SOE were to develop a more complete racial language, but the chances of that happening seem to be slim to none.</p><p>Anyway, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, SOE solved the problem by having racial languages in-game that must be learned, but once learned may be read as if they were in common.  [Unfortunately, this convention is missing from the PvP servers].</p><p>I feel as if the whole Void story line might supply a few more words and phrases, and would appreciate it if those that know it intimately might be able to add to the list. </p>

[Xalmat]

<p>Well, if Sul is Elvish for Desert, then it stands to reason that Anashti Sul's name could be Elvish, perhaps "Desert Goddess" or "Desert Princess" or something similar. Or perhaps since she is associated with peacocks, her name could literally mean "Peacock of the Desert". Or perhaps something entirely different altogether.</p>

[Naiyenea]

<p>Hmmm. Perhaps "Sul" really means something like undeath. This seems a little unlikely because Anashti Sul wasn't always associated with undeath. Has it ever been officially confirmed that sul means sand? The only connection I'm able to see with Anashti Sul and the Sand Elves would be the face that the Sand Elves are undead, and Anashti is known for unleashing undeath upon Norrath.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Yeah, I thought it was established that Sul ment death or undeath, especially since we found out in DoF that they named themselves after Anashti Sul herself.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>I think that in the absence of any definitive definition from the developers, (which seems rather unlikely), we will always be uncertain as to the exact definition.  We can accept that uncertainty, and speculate as to possible or likely definitions, or we can try to reach a concensus as to the meaning.</p><p>I suspect that the developers themselves did not have any exact definitions for many of the words, and more or less named things with an Elvish sounding word without worrying about what the exact meaning might be.</p>

[Naiyenea]

<p>Good point. I'd really hope that they put some thought behind the Elvish words, though.</p><p>Does anyone know what "Vie" means? I always just assumed it was just a title or name for Firiona Vie, but I think a dwarf NPC in Kelethin referred to something called the Koada'Vie when telling of the siege of Felwithe.</p>