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Jaale
07-07-2006, 06:36 PM
<DIV>Just thought that I would ask as I can't seem to find anything on this and I've seen it mentioned a few times here on the boards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is a plane of time, it has been used by the gods and by mortals (mostly to release Zeb) This has even caused a split in the time line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there no god that watches over this? Is there a God of Time?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if there is what does he/she do, as protecting the realm doesn't appear to be part of the job title.</DIV>

KniteShayd
07-07-2006, 06:48 PM
if i am not mistaken wasn't druzzil ro incharge of that, or did she just use it for that quest back in EQ live? i want to say it was her but something in the back of my mind tells me there is another diety that may have rule of that plane.

RaphaNissi
07-07-2006, 07:05 PM
From what I understand, the Plane of Time is the realm of the gods meaning they are all there with no one particular ruler.  Druzzil Ro did change time at the end when you released Zeb, but maybe they can all manipulate time.  Quarm was teh last boss you fought which was a 4 headed monster made up from the four elemental gods (Fennin Ro, Triumvate of Water, Xegoney, and Rathe) combining their powers to keep Zeb imprisoned.  After completing each stage in the zone, you would hear a dialogue coming from the different gods.  I'm sure some of the more knowledgable lore posters would know if there is a god of time, but it seems like there isn't one.<div></div>

vikingthug
07-07-2006, 07:29 PM
<FONT color=#ffff00>Timex.....bow your head mortal.</FONT>

Ama
07-07-2006, 09:17 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vikingthug wrote:<BR> <FONT color=#ffff00>Timex.....bow your head mortal.</FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Pfft forget timex man go with a Rolex :smileywink: .</P> <P>Anyways it is very hard to say if there is a specific god for the Plane of Time.  There are two plausible scenarios here that can branch off imho.</P> <P>First is that this is a neutral plane where all the gods can convien.  The gods from my understanding are higher in understanding than any mortal and even though they have enemies they have neutral territory.  I mean what is to stop Bertoxxul *sp* or Cazic-Thule from going in there and reversing time so that they create their races first or impower their races letting them take over the world.  This to me signifies that the Plane of Time must be a sort of Neutral Territory thus you would have the quote "Evil Gods" waging war to control the plane of time. </P> <P>Second scenario coinsides a bit with with what I said in my first statement.  The Plane of Time is deffinately a neutral territory but since we have only seen Druzzil Ro use the fabric of time once she can be assumed to be the ruler of the Plane of Time.  This being a better answer because you would in essence need a "guard" for the Plane of Time because what would stop the mortals from finding a way up there to mess with the fabric of time itself. </P> <P>The only part that I believe is that the Plane of Time would be neutral territory.  If that ground were fought over it would possibly cause major problems for us mortals.  I think i'll ponder this a bit and hopefully vhalen can give us some of his pearls of wisedom about this matter. :smileywink:</P>

Cusashorn
07-07-2006, 10:42 PM
<DIV>No. There is no God of Time. Deus Ex Demi-Goddess Druzzil Ro decided that she was more powerful than all the elemental gods combined by using her control over Magic to turn back time.</DIV>

RaphaNissi
07-07-2006, 11:16 PM
<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>No. There is no God of Time. Deus Ex Demi-Goddess Druzzil Ro decided that she was more powerful than all the elemental gods combined by using her control over Magic to turn back time.</div><hr></blockquote>Did you get this from somewhere, or are all the gods able to manipilate time since the plane of time is " place where time cannot be measured for it was time itself, both no time and all times at once."  That quote from Zeb himself would suggest that any god could manipulate time since all time was the same time there.  Even those on the outside could kind of manipulate time, or at least do the same thing Druzzil Ro did and send the adventurers to a specific time.."Loreseeker Maelin fidgets about with excitement, 'So here you are, this is quite impressive. I cannot wait to see the results of this impressive machine! I have coordinated with the clockworks here that have not gone mad. We have set the machine to tear a point of time open that should be equal to that based on the cipher and history that we have [researched].' Loreseeker Maelin says 'Based on the findings from the information that you brought back to me I have determined the exact time to open."</div>

Cusashorn
07-08-2006, 12:06 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RaphaNissi wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>No. There is no God of Time. Deus Ex Demi-Goddess Druzzil Ro decided that she was more powerful than all the elemental gods combined by using her control over Magic to turn back time.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Did you get this from somewhere, or are all the gods able to manipilate time since the plane of time is " place where time cannot be measured for it was time itself, both no time and all times at once."  That quote from Zeb himself would suggest that any god could manipulate time since all time was the same time there.  Even those on the outside could kind of manipulate time, or at least do the same thing Druzzil Ro did and send the adventurers to a specific time..<BR>"Loreseeker Maelin fidgets about with excitement, 'So here you are, this is quite impressive. I cannot wait to see the results of this impressive machine! I have coordinated with the clockworks here that have not gone mad. We have set the machine to tear a point of time open that should be equal to that based on the cipher and history that we have [researched].' <BR><BR>Loreseeker Maelin says 'Based on the findings from the information that you brought back to me I have determined the exact time to open."</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well for starters, if that is just exactly what happened. The elemental gods, the very gods who created all the other gods of influence, failed. Then along comes this Demi-Goddess who was given control over the influence of Magic itself, who decides to use her Deus Ex Machina powers to use magic to turn back time, thus proving herself to be more powerful than the elemental gods themselves.</P> <P>Now if all of the gods were capable of doing this, don't you think they would?</P>

RaphaNissi
07-08-2006, 12:12 AM
<div></div>But she didn't use it for her benefit alone.  If this is the only time she has ever done it, than it would seem she was allowed by all the gods for the benefit of their powers and the balance they are trying to keep.  They probably used her to do it since it was her fault they were even in the situation with Zeb.   There must be some kind of code they follow, or what would have kept them from destroying each other by now.<div></div><p>Message Edited by RaphaNissi on <span class=date_text>07-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:16 PM</span>

Cusashorn
07-08-2006, 07:53 AM
<DIV>according to the script, it was her decision alone.</DIV>

Barx
07-08-2006, 06:42 PM
<div></div><div></div>IMHO, there simply cannot be a God of Time. I think PoTime is one of those areas outside the Godly Planes, one of those areas Vhalen <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=14295" target="_blank">mentions in his Cosmology</a> as "empty spaces all about this foundation that I cannot get into." Considering the gargantuan effort that was required to get into the PoTime, and the fact that its not one single god that challenges adventurers there, but instead an amalgam of the greatest gods (the Elemental Gods), that PoTime belongs to no one god, and is infact beyond their home planes, similar to the Void. As an aside... does anyone have a link to the full-text of the entire encounter within the PoTime (in EQL)? Edit: Bah, silly HTML formatting<p>Edit 2: Thanks, thats exactly what I wanted =)Having read that... its almost as though PoTime is the OPPOSITE to the Void... in the Void even the Gods would wither, but in PoTime they can regain their strength before they return to their home planes. Since Balance is so critical, that makes sense to me: 2 outside dimensions, one of absolute nothingness (the Void), and one of absolute everythingness (The Plane of Time -- every time that ever was and will be).<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Lord_Ebon on <span class=date_text>07-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:53 AM</span>

RaphaNissi
07-08-2006, 06:45 PM
<div></div><a target="_blank" href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=pop_progression">Planar Progression Dialogue.</a><div></div>

Barx
08-25-2006, 06:02 PM
<div></div>While I hate to rez a pretty old thread, just had to share a message Vhalen sent me (that I hadn't noticed I had, hehe).<b><span>PoT thoughts on dimensions</span></b><p>Only two dimensions? Don't be so sure of that. There are things that have not been explained at every level of the cosmology, missing pieces. We can't have Norrathians understand all, but they should know the foundation. In the least, you lore readers should know the foundation.VH</p><p>I just love the way Vhalen adds all new mystery and questions =)</p><div></div>

Ama
08-25-2006, 06:17 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>according to the script, it was her decision alone.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think the script is a bit misleading Cusashorn because it was her decision because it was the entire god council's decision.  The gods felt it necessary to punish us mortals because of our actions fearing we were growing too powerful.  An alternative was offered up opposed to completely eliminating us and starting over.  This alternative was the split us mortals up because we had strength in unity and that is what the gods set out to break up. </P> <P>Druzzil Ro is an interesting person to use the fabric of time turning back time and all but I think she is the most qualified because of her abilities with magic.  This to me symbolizes a union between magic and time itself almost as if they are interconnected or a more plausible scenario being Druzzil Ro is so adept at using magic she forced the tapestry of time to turn back. </P> <P>I'm wondering however if the tearing of the fabric of time was intended creating the two alternate time lines?  One preceeding on as planed with the other punishing the mortals for what they had done.<BR></P>

Renita_Serafim
08-25-2006, 07:15 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lord_Ebon wrote:<BR> While I hate to rez a pretty old thread, just had to share a message Vhalen sent me (that I hadn't noticed I had, hehe).<BR><BR><B><SPAN>PoT thoughts on dimensions</SPAN></B> <P>Only two dimensions? Don't be so sure of that. There are things that have not been explained at every level of the cosmology, missing pieces. We can't have Norrathians understand all, but they should know the foundation. In the least, you lore readers should know the foundation.<BR><BR>VH</P> <P>I just love the way Vhalen adds all new mystery and questions =)<BR></P><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Could Dryt, Iza, Odris, Hykor, Lysis and Cron be other such dimensions?<BR>

Barx
08-27-2006, 05:09 AM
<div><blockquote><hr>Amana wrote:<div></div><p>I'm wondering however if the tearing of the fabric of time was intended creating the two alternate time lines?  One preceeding on as planed with the other punishing the mortals for what they had done.</p><hr></blockquote>I'm thinking that the splitting of the timelines wasn't intended. Perhaps Druzzil Ro wasn't as powerful as she thought she was, and her spell simply 'ripped' time apart instead of setting it backwards... IMHO splitting time from one point would be easier than going back in time (especially if everything is a series of parallel universes).</div>

Nainitsuj
08-27-2006, 04:55 PM
<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lord_Ebon wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <P>I'm wondering however if the tearing of the fabric of time was intended creating the two alternate time lines?  One preceeding on as planed with the other punishing the mortals for what they had done.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm thinking that the splitting of the timelines wasn't intended. Perhaps Druzzil Ro wasn't as powerful as she thought she was, and her spell simply 'ripped' time apart instead of setting it backwards... IMHO splitting time from one point would be easier than going back in time (especially if everything is a series of parallel universes).<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You can't have time go backwards without it continuing to go forwards.  It would just be one giant loop.  In order for a second timeline to start (setting time backwards), the first must be left unaffected.</DIV>

Ama
08-27-2006, 09:06 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lord_Ebon wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amana wrote:<BR> <P>I'm wondering however if the tearing of the fabric of time was intended creating the two alternate time lines?  One preceeding on as planed with the other punishing the mortals for what they had done.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm thinking that the splitting of the timelines wasn't intended. Perhaps Druzzil Ro wasn't as powerful as she thought she was, and her spell simply 'ripped' time apart instead of setting it backwards... IMHO splitting time from one point would be easier than going back in time (especially if everything is a series of parallel universes).<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well I think the first question we have to ask is about the gods themselves and are they perfect?  I mean if you look at the time line thing then no however if it was intentional then yes the gods are perfect and they are infailable always making the right decision. 

DruVir
08-28-2006, 09:47 AM
I'm pretty sure there is no "God of Time" since, well, I think he would be guarding his own Plane. I thought that the Plane of Time always existed, as it's the basic structure of time itself. The god's are able to enter it to meet and to talk, however their actions won't take affect, since they are in a place where time is basically in a standstill. They need to leave in order to craft the world as they see fit. You've also got to realize that the god's do have some sort of checks and balances. They wouldn't just go in and screw with time, even if they could. After all, what's to stop Inny from just suddenly unleashing hoards of beasties on all the elven cities at his whim? More than likely Druzzil Ro is the only one who can control the passage of time, as she seems to be one of the more wise beings, and the goddess of magic. Unlike the other gods, she is very neutral, .. Quellious could abuse time to make things more peaceful, Innoruuk to make things hateful, etc etc. She was probably able to use her command over magic to amplify the nature of Time, and bend it to her decision. <div></div>

DruVir
08-28-2006, 09:52 AM
Oh, and in regards to if the timeline split was intentional or not, .. It's just how the theory of time goes. At least in most sci-fi .. anything. Remember back to Back to the Future, when the timeline was changed so the present was different. In most modern thought about it, whenever an event like this occurs, it doesn't simply rewrite history. Two seperate, but parallel universes are made, one which contains the world where time wasn't altered, and one where time was. Oh, for any Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross fans out there, I'm sure you all know what I mean. <div></div>

Cusashorn
08-28-2006, 10:37 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DruVirus wrote:<BR>Oh, and in regards to if the timeline split was intentional or not, ..<BR><BR>It's just how the theory of time goes. At least in most sci-fi .. anything. Remember back to Back to the Future, when the timeline was changed so the present was different. In most modern thought about it, whenever an event like this occurs, it doesn't simply rewrite history. Two seperate, but parallel universes are made, one which contains the world where time wasn't altered, and one where time was. <BR><BR>Oh, for any Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross fans out there, I'm sure you all know what I mean.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I love Chrono Trigger, but I didn't care too much for Chrono Cross.</P> <P> </P> <P>It was the Star Trek episode "City on the Edge of Forever" that made it easy for me to understand how parallel universes are created through time alterations, as the Mirror Universe started from that episode, all thanks to Dr. McCoy.</P>

Ama
08-28-2006, 06:08 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DruVirus wrote:<BR>Oh, and in regards to if the timeline split was intentional or not, ..<BR><BR>It's just how the theory of time goes. At least in most sci-fi .. anything. Remember back to Back to the Future, when the timeline was changed so the present was different. In most modern thought about it, whenever an event like this occurs, it doesn't simply rewrite history. Two seperate, but parallel universes are made, one which contains the world where time wasn't altered, and one where time was.<BR><BR>Oh, for any Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross fans out there, I'm sure you all know what I mean.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I love Chrono Trigger, but I didn't care too much for Chrono Cross.</P> <P> </P> <P>It was the Star Trek episode "City on the Edge of Forever" that made it easy for me to understand how parallel universes are created through time alterations, as the Mirror Universe started from that episode, all thanks to Dr. McCoy.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Heh I tend to rely on the infinite universe theorum and when a timeline split occurs your just breaking into that universe. 

zulli
09-01-2006, 03:30 AM
<DIV>i would have to say that potime is ruled over by the nameless.  the god that "allows" everything in the world to exist, including the gods.  I dont think he has too much to worry about mortals entering his realm just based on the fact that his power is beyond reproach.   druzzil ro sent all the adventurers back in time and wiped their memory not to protect the planes, to keep the secret that the gods were trully mortal.  that is why he is locked up for all time.</DIV>