View Full Version : Roleplay vs. Gameplay ( a discussion thread)

06-29-2006, 06:54 PM
<DIV> <P>Not sure if this is the best forum, but seemed close.</P> <P>In MMOs you play along with other people, NPCs and a premade world.<SPAN>  </SPAN></P> <P>There seems to be a recent movement in MMO RPing to completely ignore the world around.</P> <P>This thread is meant to be a discussion starter on this topic.</P> <P>For sake of discussion, consider there following two “roleplayers”</P> <P>(The examples are not meant to represent any specific MMO)</P> <P>Exhibit A:</P> <P>I am a ROLE-player.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My “ROLE” is defined by my character sheet which can be examined by myself and others ingame.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My character sheet includes my Race (and class), Experience (and level), my Strength (and other attributes) and a brief<SPAN>  </SPAN>description (bio) of who I am and where I come from.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My purpose is to do my best to fit this role.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If I am a level 1 human wizard, then my “role” will have (at the very least) the following characteristics:<SPAN>  </SPAN></P> <P>1.<SPAN>         </SPAN>I am a human.<SPAN>  </SPAN>2.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I am inexperienced<SPAN>  </SPAN>3. I am wizard and am bound by the restrictions of this class (e.g. I cannot wear armor).<SPAN>  </SPAN>4.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I am weak ( I have strength 1 out of a possible 500)<SPAN>  </SPAN></P> <P> </P> <P>My role will also have “personal” characteristics that I give to my character as long as they do not conflict with those assigned to me by the game world (and shown in the character sheet).</P> <P>My interaction with the world and others will be based on my “role” as described above and will fit in with the mechanics of the world.<SPAN>  </SPAN>i.e.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Should I have to duel someone who is experienced and strong, me losing this duel ( a level 1 will always lose a duel to a level 50) will be perfectly aligned to both mine and the other person’s Roles.</P> <P>Exhibit B.</P> <P>I am a ROLE-player.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My “ROLE” is based on a story I wrote based on reading game lore.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My role is defined only by what I say or decide about it.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My character sheet and attributes are something I consider OOC and ignore.<SPAN>  </SPAN></P> <P>While my character sheet says that I am a level 1 human wizard, in “reality” I am an ancient dragon in disguise.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I have virtually limitless powers.<SPAN>  </SPAN>And even though the game mechanics require one to be level 20 to speak dragon language, I just “Roleplay” that I speak it.<SPAN>  </SPAN>When people who actually speak the Dragon language address me, RP that I speak another dialect that no one else knows.</P> <P>“Experience” or “xp” means nothing.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Even though I have never been in a dungeon, I can simply describe glorious battles that I have partaken in.<SPAN>  </SPAN>While I have not actually killed any Dragons, I can “Roleplay” that I know how to do it in great detail.<SPAN>  </SPAN>When I am invited to participate in dragon killing based on my “vast (rp) experience”, I will just emote that I am fighting it.<SPAN>  </SPAN>This is what RP interaction means.</P> <P>When life demands that I duel another person, we will not actually have a duel (which I would obviously lose, as I am level 1 and the other person is level 50) but we will decide ahead of time who should win and then we will emote the entire fight.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I will likely win this fight because I am an ancient dragon and my dragon powers are greately vaster than that of the other person (even though there are no such powers in the game itself).</P> <P>There you have it.<SPAN>  </SPAN>2 Examples.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I am sure you’ve met plenty of people of both kinds.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The main difference is that Person 1 requires the game he is playing in order to do what he is doing while Person 2 can basically do everything he is doing via MSN Chat.</P> <P>So my argument to you then is this:</P> <P>If you choose to ignore your own and others’ character sheet, game experience and strength in favour of making up a story, then you are in effect ignoring your ROLE in the game.<SPAN>  </SPAN>And if we, as actors, were to all ignore our roles, it would make for quite a sad roleplaying performance when we are together.</P> <P>In other words, one should be working on making their role fit into the world, not making the world fit into their role.</P> <P>Agree?<SPAN>  </SPAN>Disagree?</P></DIV>

06-29-2006, 07:20 PM
You may want to put this on the NGD or Gameplay forum...this section is for History and Lore of EQ2...you may get a better response on either of them forums....

06-29-2006, 07:31 PM
<P>i don't see myself as role player, but i do play my character, so depending on which character i am, i play the game as if i am him /her, I have a flirty ratonga female who is frightened of kerras.. and i play up on that, i do in a fun none to serious way, but what my characters does on the screen almost always respects the character, and when i react to other charcters in game i react to the characters not to the person controlling them. </P> <P>I may chat about what ever in guild chat/ team speakl or in tells, but on my screen in eq2 stays eq2, my characters and what is sees are it.</P> <P>Hope that makes sense.</P>

06-29-2006, 08:18 PM
The game skills vs character skills debate is a difficult one.For many the need to RP a character overcomes the need to actually grind to achieve this and they will happily play the all powerful wizard or heroic warrior despite their characters actual prowess. For others they feel the need to literally experience things in a game and their roleplay tales stem from actual experiences, neither way is wrong but the two sides clash over this for obvious reasons.I prefer to have the skills to backup my claims personally always have but as long as those who want to make up their abilities dont over power play i have no objection. Roleplay is key here.

06-29-2006, 08:40 PM
<DIV>I follow my human monk's history. Everquest has a rich and details history behind the Monk Class. Only humans could be monks untill they introduced the Iksar race, and even then, the monk class could only be played by two races.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I continue my roleplaying as a Human Monk in EQ2 because I believe that Humans are the only ones who should be monks.</DIV>

06-29-2006, 08:45 PM
I can see your point about making classes more unique by restricting them by race... monks were very unique in early early EQ1 days because noone wanted to be a human and walk around blind at night, heh..Still, the one thing you have to consider is how much this restricts your ability to decide your characters background.  I RP as a Teir'dal Warden... hopefully there won't be class/deity restrictions, because he does in fact worship Innoruuk.  I have a long background explaining how he became a druid, and how he uses the powers of Tunare and Karana as an abuse of their powers.. believing that Innoruuk would be pleased that he is taking something so beautiful as nature, and twisting it to serve a dark purpose.I just like the RP freedom it provides...<div></div>

06-29-2006, 09:26 PM
teh freedom I Enjoy as well but I also more enjoyed class being locked to difrente races like in eq1. this made a class much mroe unice then the once we have today (becuse not all RP the story why they become the class but choise it becuse its need in x point in game/guild)but back to topic the Roleplay discues most of my toons have a background taht goes futer back then this game it self, and are offen abit overpower from what htey trully can do. but also limet by the class and Level. mostly I have a strony of hate and forgeting and lerning new skill so even if in the past my toon was abel to do so insane things he can not do em anymore becuse of a event in his life... so Im probley abit inbetiwen both of the two optiens you showed up. but my reasone for that choise is that I dont enjoy to play a unexierensed yungling when I can rather have on whit a rich history to walk from<div></div>

06-29-2006, 10:10 PM
<DIV>I always roleplay to the game mechanics, to a degree.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I am a level 1 Coercer, I will roleplay that I am inexperienced, and I have only recently found my path in life. As I level up and my story develops, I will roleplay her becoming more and more familiar with her chosen profession. For example, I am a level 60 Coercer right now, and if someone ICly asks her to try and modify someone's memory, she'd say "Sure, but it'll take me a fair amount of thoughtstones. Give me a while." While, if she was under level 50ish, I would say "Sorry, I'm not skilled enough yet."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some people choose to roleplay as powerful beings right from the start. This is okay, and I don't have much of an opposition to it. However, I find that roleplaying your best from level 1 will limit how much more you can advance. It will be a much more boring path, as you can only advance so much. Not to mention, if someone claims to have this power at level 1, and a level 70 duels them... yeah. Or, if they choose to take the /emote way of fighting, and the level 1 wins... how fair would it be to the level 70? They spent months leveling up, while the level 1 was just created.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's just my take on it. :robothappy:</DIV>

06-29-2006, 10:11 PM
wow... this brings me back to DnD, lol.that game was so fun and full of great RP if you had a nice DM to play with.  Too bad i live in the middle of nowhere and if i wanted to play, i would have to scour the land for 4 other people and spend weeks designing a setting i like, etc.or i could just play EQ2, which a few of my friends play already anyways.<div></div>

06-30-2006, 03:33 AM
<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>I follow my human monk's history. Everquest has a rich and details history behind the Monk Class. Only humans could be monks untill they introduced the Iksar race, and even then, the monk class could only be played by two races.</div> <div> </div> <div>I continue my roleplaying as a Human Monk in EQ2 because I believe that Humans are the only ones who should be monks.</div><hr></blockquote>I maintain that Gnome Monks are an aberration.</div>

Nocturnal Aby
06-30-2006, 02:54 PM
<P>I consider myself an avid roleplayer, as all my characters are on the Role-Play server of Antonia Bayle, and I have role played since EQ on Firiona Vie server (also RP).</P> <P>You presented two sides, and, as some have showed, they are not the only way.  When I play, I blend the two.  I have a tier'dal berserker who at one time was a skilled dragoon in the Queen's army.  He fought against the halflings and the humans, and remembers the ground shaking as he and his unit were sealed off from their home.  He was a skilled soldier, though young, skilled enough to gain the rank of Dragoon, however, he has spent the last 75 years or so in the bottom of a bottle in various taverns in Freeport, and has only recently sobered up, and taken up the sword again.  His skills are growing as he re-trains his body, but he has has the knowledge, wisdom, and experience of someone who is 332 years old.  His training advances somewhat quickly (since there is no real time in this game), yet occasionally suffers setback when he relapses into his alcoholism (ie, I want to play a different character for a bit).  I have a Brigand who, by the age of 26, has been in 2 well run, and very successful crime syndicates, as well as a strong military Order, and his skills reflect this, as he is of the 70th rank of his profession.  However, he is still only 26, and, although he has some skills that reflect his past training and experiences, he still thinks (or doesn't think at times) like a 26 year old.</P> <P>I have always enjoyed creating stories, but I also always include a reason for my characters weakened condition, whether it be emerging from various caverns under Norrath's crust after being stripped of his powers, and falling into a crevace during the Rending, or simply being young, and inexperienced, an inventive mind can always come up with a reason.</P> <P>As with most things in life, the best path lies in a balance of the two extremes.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

07-05-2006, 08:08 PM
<EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Your not one of those fat kids who cuts eyeholes into icream buckets,straps it on his head,  and throws scrap pieces of tinfoil at the screen screaming "<STRONG>Lightening bolt!"</STRONG>  are you?  Serriously, thats disturbing.  Im a game player.  I dont want to run around doing the whole "role play" thing, I find it very very creepy.  I play a game, and thats it, I dont take it any further.  Case in point: I was in Barnes and Nobles last weekend checking out a few books when the dork troop strolled in dressed out as what I was guessing was AD&D outfits.  Now, they werent kids, they were adults.  Someone has obviously been in the lead paint again.  You want to role play, fine, keep it on your server or to your close knit cirlce of wackjobs.  That or keep it in the bedroom where it belongs.</FONT></EM>

07-06-2006, 01:14 AM
What a lame post viking, why would you come into a thread about roleplaying and then bash roleplaying? If its not for you, whatever, we role-players don't care, but we also don't care that you don't care. Heh, and you are missing out on alot of fun! But anyways.I completely agree with the above poster who said he plays an old dark elf who is re-training himself, that's how my character is. So his level fits in with his RP but he is also not a begining fighter, he has been fightin' for many years.Now, there is one big things about role-play and that is there is no right way to role-play. Role-play is whatever you want it to be, it truely is only limited by your imagination. However, this is game world that we play in that does not change on our whims so its generally a good idea to limit yourself to in-world RP. Elves live a long time, humans are generally shorter lived, mages are weak, fighetrs are strong, etc. But this is not always the case in RP, like you said in your second example.However, and this is something I think noone else has brought up, your second example is a good example of "power role-playing" and that is when someone who makes there character quite powerfull, and brings that into RP. This is a bad thing when it forces the person you are role-playing with to change there RP. RP with two people is a give-and-take and powerfull RP like that makes it hard to RP with.

Nocturnal Aby
07-06-2006, 01:41 AM
<P>I have roleplayed my level 70 character since creation.  His role isn't powerful because his level is, his roleplay is powerful because of the extensive training he has undergone, and this, in turn, is also reflected by his level.  I try to combine both game mechanics and roleplay, if for no other reason, than that even if someone wants to role-play, game mechanics ARE a part of the game, so why not have explanations that include both.  </P> <P>Just like your character is retraining, what will happen when he reaches 70?  My old character who is retraining will be at or above his former training, and his role will reflect this.  Same sort of thing.  After 16 years of non-stop training, and that with something of a natural aptitude, my Brigand has become very skilled, and this is reflected in his level.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

07-06-2006, 06:06 PM
<P><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>     Ok, I see your point, its creepy, but your entiteled to your own (odd) view.  RPing is fine for games like this, granted you dont need as much imagination for online games.  Now, back in the days of Chainmail, DnD, and AD&D thats where real imagination really came into play.  You didnt have a pixel world to run around in.  You had books, dice, charactor sheets, and if you were lucky your DM bought the latest ,coolest gaming modual like Ravenloft ruled by the ultimate bad vamp Count Strahd Vonzarovich. (probably mispelled).</FONT></EM></P> <P><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>     Now, I know there are some fairly normal people out there that role play, a few of my good friends do.  Personaly Im glad they made RP servers, it keeps the majority of the wacko's confined to those servers.  Theres nothing worse then having a pack of fruit cakes, hopped up on Caffiene, running around screaming in, what they perceive to be, old english.  </FONT></EM></P> <P><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>     Now, I understand that my view of the role play community is a little jaded, and I tend to be overly harsh on them, but thats just my personal opinion, and in all honesty I dont really have any issues with you guys..My origional post was made after watching some video of a large group of Role Players playing some demented version of DnD.  There was actually some guy running around dressed in "Wizards" garments and throwing tin foil confeftti screaming lightening bolt.  I laughed so hard I nearly pee'd myself.  But, in all honesty, they really looked like they were having fun, plastic flails and all.  If you want to spend hours dreaming up your toons history, more power to you, exspecially if it brings joy to this miserable world.  For me, when I turn off the game, thats it, its off, by by, no more untill I descide to turn it back on...But thats just me.</FONT></EM></P>

Nocturnal Aby
07-06-2006, 11:37 PM
<P>Well, 90% of the RPing community doesn't use old English.  9% of those who do are Frogloks, and, if you've ever wondered around Castleview, you'll know that they are supposed to speak old English.  To most roleplayers, the game stops when we turn it off as well.  Few differences than you is that we will actually right communal stories about our characters on forums, where others can join in, stuff like that.  Most roleplayers look just like you and everyone else.  We simply like playing the game a different way.  It's odd that you base your judgment on roleplayers on some Live Action Roleplaying tape you see.  While I am sure there are roleplayers who do it, I know more than a few who have probably never heard of it.  I only have because I saw some of the practicing in the park one day like 5 years ago or so, and found it interesting (and yes, quite amusing).  I, too, thought them dorks, but hey, I'm a dork, too!  I mean, I play Everquest 2 for crying out loud, if that doesn't make you a dork, what does?  Before you pass judgment on something, its always good to know who you are passing judgment on.  You should try RPing, you never know, you might like it!</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

07-07-2006, 01:03 AM
Each one of my army of alts has a unique background - but they all have one thing in common: the guy at the keyboard.So, although my barbarian mystic with an int of 49 has issues counting past 9 (he lost a toe in the war), or my Gnome Shadowknight has a self-image problem and has blocked out the fact that he has a ilttle budda belly (or any belly at all - to him he ends at the chest and starts again at the hips... he doesn't even wear a belt), or my DE Warden likes to BBQ (meat, its whats for dinner!) they still have my personality.Of course, you have to spend time with those characters to learn any of that - its not something that I bring up in the middle of battle (unless someone asks the mystic how many gnolls are over the hill).   Its during the interaction with other players in non-intense situations that these come to the fore and role playing begins.   I won't let my group die simply because a current action goes against my character's beliefs - thats not fun for anyone, but weaselling out of hunting centaurs 'cause I don't want to destroy my faction is acceptable to me.Roleplaying, for me, is what happens when you're not participating in actions dependant upon game mechanics.<div></div>

07-07-2006, 06:20 AM
Roleplaying for me is a way to express how my character is. Seriously each one of my chars acts completely different than the other. My healer will be polite, shy, and laid back where as my Bruiser is happy, upbeat, and ready to beat things up =) Roleplaying is just a way to add more flavor to a game, I do not roleplay by my stats but more of the way I perceive my character. All in all I don't think there are many RPer's in EQ2, not like SWG, sometimes I wish that I was on the RP server but too many of my RL friends are on Kithicor =(<div></div>