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JadeHea
06-26-2006, 09:48 AM
<DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Greetings and Salutations Lore Seekers!!</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN> </SPAN>I don’t often post on these boards as id rather be in game playing. But I have a theory on Lucan and I believe its time for me to share it and get some feedback. One of the reasons I don’t post is that im not into Getting my [Removed for Content] flamed off so be nice when you post, as like I was saying it’s a theory.</FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>I play on the role-playing server and when I decided to play a priest of Freeport I did all the research on Lucan that I could find.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Now I know Lucan well, as I played for four years in eq1, and I have played eq2 since its release. And the more I found the more questions I had.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Here is some history of Lucan for you. (( the eq1 Pally epic.))</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>You say, 'Who is Sir Lucan?'</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN> </SPAN>Valeron Dushire says 'Lucan is a bad seed. You see, I trained Sir Lucan. He was nothing more than a street rat who was taken in by the Temple of Marr. The priests taught him and found him to be very agile and strong. They requested either the Priests of Marr or the Knights of Truth take him on as a squire. Gygus could not spare the trainers at the time and so we took the boy. The boy became a man, and a very formidable knight. Then something [went awry].'</FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>You say, 'What went awry?'</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN> </SPAN>Valeron Dushire says 'During one of our crusades into the lands of Norrath, we left Sir Lucan in charge of the remaining knights. He did much good and the people respected him. He was overtaken by power. He soon began to hire mercenaries to guard the city, calling them the Freeport Militia. His true downfall began when he killed Sentry Dillius, a paladin of the Priests of Marr. His divine powers were stripped from his soul. He was a paladin no longer. He and his militia now control the city. They treat it as their playground and bully the populace. Someone must [stop Sir Lucan].'</FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>You say, 'I will stop Sir Lucan'</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN> </SPAN>Valeron Dushire says 'That would be good, but I doubt you can. We have been trying for years and are unable to get him apart from the militia. If you do the impossible and destroy Sir Lucan, bring me his testimony. Every knight of the Hall of Truth carries a signed testimony. Sir Lucan still holds his.'</FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN> </SPAN>At this point you kill Sir Lucan, and he respawns as an undead creature.<SPAN>    </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Ok now the questions!</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <OL> <LI><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Freeport was the human city in eq1. After the shattering, it became the home to many of the races. The “human avatar Lucan” became its new ruler. But all the humans got the beggars quarter, which they had to share with the half elfs. Lucan mockingly renamed it Beggars Court. This is a strange way for a human ruler to treat his fello humans. Now this always bugged me because it never made sense. Why did all the humans get relocated to the crummy part of the city when our ruler is human himself? I could see us getting relocated if we had a non-human leader. But we don’t. On a side note… Dark elfs share their part f the city with no one.</FONT></LI></OL> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <OL> <LI><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Second thing that bugged me is, Why did the dark elfs move into Freeport. Even Everquest dark elfs are a snotty and haughty bunch. There are many small villages still surviving in the wilds. Why did they not just take over one of those? Even more so, Why did they drop all their own factions and join Freeport ones? Why did they get their own quarter to live in? Why have they integrated into the upper ranks of the societies? To me the answer is simple. They know who Lucan really is. And they are following his lead.</FONT></LI></OL> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <OL> <LI><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Another part of the storyline? Fallen gate, it used to be full of just undead. But the overlord had it cleared out. Why is the human ruler of Freeport care about old Neriak? And what is he looking for? (( I have an idea but im not telling.)) Even then we were at war with the Thex, but as soon as we cleared it out the Thexians moved back in. And now we are fighting them… These dark elfs are loyal to the old nobles and the old ways. The ones that refused to follow the rest into Freeport.</FONT></LI></OL> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <OL> <LI><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Why does Lucan use the title Overlord? This is more of a Tier’dal title or a non-human title. Not like the human titles of Viscount, Marques ect, and why does the overlord have a Tier'dal "mistress" or "assistant". If you look into his habits he has some interesting non-human ones.</FONT></LI></OL> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <OL> <LI><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>And here is the big one, How did Lucan who was utterly destroyed in eq1 waltz into Freeport has its ruler? Its not that he was killed, he dies then his bones rise up and they get destroyed. </FONT></LI></OL> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Those were the main questions that bothered me. Now lets look at a few more things. Lets look at others that have had the touch of Innoruuk in their lives.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Lhranc, the first human shadowknight. He has lost an eye, and wound up as undead due to a curse that comes from Marr. And he was marked by Innoruuk. But it does not say how. (( id love to confirm the face scar. )) Look at the nifty pattern,</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Overlord Xanit K'Ven was a unifier of the dark elves and favorite of Innoruuk.<SPAN>  </SPAN>He was whisked away to the Plain of Hate<SPAN>  </SPAN>when<SPAN>  </SPAN>King and Queen Thex and the Dark Elf nobles turned on him.<SPAN>  </SPAN>You can find a couple pics of him if you search, Notice the scar on his face?</FONT></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>                       </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>Here is an interesting bit cut from <B>The Tome of Destiny. </B>This is an official eq2 storyline book. If you wish to read the whole book, here is a copy of it, and the link. </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><A href="http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?article_id=2496&fansite_id=11" target=_blank><U><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?article_id=2496&fansite_id=11</FONT></SPAN></U></A></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>"You ignore the honor in their hearts," Mithaniel Marr countered. "They have earned the right to exist, to ascend to greatness."<BR><BR>"Greatness?" Innoruuk cackled gleefully. "Leave them to their own devices and they will devour themselves in jealousy and hatred. The solution is not for us to kill them, but to step aside and let them feed upon each other."</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><BR><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>At the council of the gods, Innoruuk was very vocal that all the gods including himself should leave. While the other “evil” gods mostly wanted to destroy us all. I don’t think he meant it. I think he had a plan to be able to stay behind. And this is how I think he did it.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff> When Lucan killed Sentry Dillius, a paladin of the Priests of Marr. He fled to the Dismal Rage for a short while. The priests of the Dismal Rage enchanted his body to its very core. Allowing him to have great strength even unto death. This is why his skeleton gets up out of his body and continues to fight during the paladin epic in eq1. Again, Not making this up. All is well documented. </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff> I believe Lucan was destroyed in eq1. And Innoruuk having complete knowledge of Lucan’s body thanks to the enchantment he placed on it, created a husk of it for himself. Leaving some of himself in this husk behind has he and the rest of the gods left. But from here we are getting into my speculations. As Soney will neither confirm nor deny my beliefs.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN> </SPAN>Now many speculate that lucan has his hands full trying to keep the Freeport Militia and the Dismal Rage from trying to destroy each other. But as the Dismal rage is Innoruuk’s cult, and he has the husk of Lucan, the founder of the Militia its easy for him to control these factions. He also has great control over the sea furys and the academy of arcane science just because of all of the dark elfs that have worked up to leader ranks in those factions. So for him to control Freeport isn’t that hard.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>According to <B>The Tome of Destiny</B>, many gods broke the pact and left avatars behind to continue the their influence and desires on us. These avatars are not always named, But they are talked and hinted at in the storyline. For example… When the game was first released. We were winning the war with the orcs. Yes the orcs had launched an assault against Freeport from the commen lands but we had routed them and they were regrouping. You could take a low level character and walk through the outer city zones and the most you had to worry about were thugs. But with the last updates, there was a major story shift.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN> </SPAN>The orcs have launched an assault from these zones and they are winning. If you have done the quests you know what im talking about. You are sent out to do these drastic missions like poison the food supply and make their avatar angry by defacing his idols. These are desperate missions, not missions from a side that’s winning. There is not much hope of pushing them back this time without some real dirty fighting. I would not be surprised in the next big update to find the city of Freeport as an occupied city. We are in pretty dire straits. Could it be that that the avatar of Zek found out about Innoruuk’s avatar And wants revenge for voting against him at the council of the gods?<SPAN>  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN> </SPAN>The end result is this… I think Lucan is either a pawn of Innoruuk or his avatar. The more of the story I open up and find, the more questions I begin to have. But this is my theory, and I thought it was time to share it. But this is by no means all of it. To post all my questions and research ive been collecting since the games release would give everyone a headache if they had to read it.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>Signed,</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>Inquisitor Killashack, High priest of Lucan, Drill Sergeant in the Overlords army. </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>“<I>By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.</I>”</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P></DIV>

IrishWonder
06-26-2006, 10:48 AM
<P>1. Hmmm... good question. No clue why Lucan would house the humans in the slummiest part of the city.</P> <P>2. After the raid on Neriak, the Rending, and the Shattering, the Dark Elves were cut off. Remember, at that time the only establishment left standing anywhere near Neriak was Freeport. I think they got their own part of the city because Lucan knew that it was within his best interests to win the loyalty of the Dark Elves. They were one of the strongest empires on Norrath.</P> <P>3. Did the Overlord clear it out? I was under the assumption that the only progress made in the Fallen Gate was being done by the Thexians.</P> <P>4. I assume he uses Overlord because it sounds fearfully commanding... that fits his whole niche :smileywink:</P> <P>5. I think we have to overlook the fact that he was killed in EQ1. This is a liberty that was taken by the EQ2 developer team in order to put him into the position he's in now. Lots of MOBs die and then return with no explanation... the one on the top of my mind right now is Venekor (and, in essence, all of the Awakened's generals). This is where we have to establish the line between "killed" and "defeated." An NPC is only "killed" if it is stated so in official lore.</P> <P>I think it's a pretty solid theory. I wouldn't doubt it at all if Innorruuk did have some play over Lucan's mind and actions. I know someone drew the connection between Xanit and Lucan in these forums in the past... due to the scars on the eye. I believe it was even insinuated that Lucan WAS Xanit. Of course, we know this is false because we know Lucan's background from EQ1... plus the scars are on the opposite eye.</P> <P>Don't hesitate to post theories like this in the future! I believe you'll find that 95% of this forum is speculation. As long as you explicitly state that it is your opinion and not fact, you shouldn't have to worry about flames... except from the people who think their opinion is always right... but don't mind them :smileyvery-happy:</P>

Troubor
06-26-2006, 02:01 PM
<P>Me, I'm holding out for Sarge's theory (what we on the Lucan d'Lere server fondly call old Killashack.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ).  He has me convinced that yes, this very well could be.</P> <P>One side idea, also a seed planted into my mind by Sgt. Killashack on the night he told this one to me, was if Lucan is an avatar or pawn of Innoruuk, god of Hate..could Anotnia Bayle be more then just what she claims, a long lost heir to the Bayle name?  Could it be she's actually an avatar or...servent, prophet maybe of Erolisi Marr, goddess of love?</P> <P>Goofy idea..maybe..but IC Troubor has been stopping to eye the castle in Qeynos with more then a passing glance, with a look of wonder now.</P> <P> </P>

vikingthug
06-26-2006, 07:12 PM
<FONT color=#ffff00>I dont think Lucan is anyones pawn or avatar.  You question why he puts humans in the slumiest part of the city?  Well, all the races that dwell there live in squaler.  But if you go through the city and really start looking around, most of the merchants and such are human and the majority of the city watch is human.  I believe that Lucan is probably as close to being a demi god as you can get.  Sooner or later he is gonna get tired of all those Q-scum running amok and lay some serrious hurting on some folks.  He probably has some ties to the darker Dieties but that remains to be seen.  Ol'Lucan loves his humies, botton line.  The rest of the races are just a means to an end.</FONT>

JadeHea
06-26-2006, 08:28 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IrishWonder wrote:<BR> <P>2. After the raid on Neriak, the Rending, and the Shattering, the Dark Elves were cut off. Remember, at that time the only establishment left standing anywhere near Neriak was Freeport. I think they got their own part of the city because Lucan knew that it was within his best interests to win the loyalty of the Dark Elves. They were one of the strongest empires on Norrath.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>  <P><FONT color=#ffffff>Now this is what I like to call Lucan city propaganda. Or abit of red herring lore. We know this to be false. The centars did not join a city and yet they survived. And there are countless ruins the dark elfs could have taken over. But they didn’t.<SPAN>  </SPAN>They also dropped all their own factions to join Freeport ones. This is a major lifestyle change here.</FONT></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>They just moved into Freeport and we are suppose to buy it was their only option. Just like we are suppose to buy the story that </SPAN><SPAN>Anotnia Bayle</SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN>is a young human girl of 24 years. That because of her training on this secret island she is a match and the equal of Lucan and can keep him at bay. Cause we all know that 20 years of training equals the 100’s of years Lucan has had. Not to mention that he is a litch/avatar/very dead powerful guy.</SPAN></FONT></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Don’t buy into the myth, Don’t take what Lucan’s historians wrote about the dark elf’s having to move into as fact. With just a little bit of research you will see he’s lied about a lot of things.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Irishwonder, Im not picking on you. But you are not the first to tell me they were cut off and had to move to survive. Gnolls, Orcs, Lizzardmen, Fairys, Nymphs, many races did not move into one of the cities and seemed to survive just fine. And yes! They were one of not the most powerful races on norath. So why would they move into Freeport when during eq1 they considerd Freeport to be an enemy city to be destroyed.</FONT></SPAN><BR></P> <P> </P> <P>Ole Sarge</P> <P><EM>By the pricking of my thumbs, i feel somthing wicked this way comes.</EM></P>

JadeHea
06-26-2006, 08:49 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vikingthug wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I dont think Lucan is anyones pawn or avatar.  You question why he puts humans in the slumiest part of the city?  Well, all the races that dwell there live in squaler. <FONT color=#ff0000>(( Im did not say that we humans shouldnt live in squaler, but why did he give dark elfs there own section of the city that they dont have to share with anyone? While we humans got relocated? The humans were not all living in that part of the citie leaving the other parts empty just on the off chance all the other races needed to move in. We got relocated.))</FONT> </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>But if you go through the city and really start looking around, most of the merchants and such are human and the majority of the city watch is human.  <FONT color=#ff0000>((yes, many of the merchants begging you buy there whares are human. Strange how dark elfs dont seem to need to work for a living? and all the poor sods haveing to walk the beat are mostly human. But they have nice dark elf officers sitting back at the militia house keeping cool and handing out important missions.))</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I believe that Lucan is probably as close to being a demi god as you can get.<FONT color=#ff0000>(( You mean hes an avatar? Get out! I wish that had been my idea.))</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00> Sooner or later he is gonna get tired of all those Q-scum running amok and lay some serrious hurting on some folks. </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>((Hes got much bigger worrys for now. There are still a couple of avatars that are trying to carry out Zeks plan and finish the shattering. Its one of the reasons Lucan as temp allied with that wench i like to call Aunt Bile. We also have a few avatars of the good gods still walking norath. We know what they did in the Tomb of destoney, but then they just fell off the face of the world. *winks* ))</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00> He probably has some ties to the darker Dieties but that remains to be seen.  Ol'Lucan loves his humies, botton line.  The rest of the races are just a means to an end.</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>(( There is no probebly, The dismal rage (Innoruuk) enchanted his bodey to so he could not be killed by any man. it took groups of people to kill him. What do you think this fallen palladin gave the dismal rage for this powerful enchantment? He lost everything when he went into excile. it wasnt his pokeymon collection he gave up. ))</FONT><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:03 AM</span>

JadeHea
06-26-2006, 08:59 PM
<P>  Here is somthing else to chew on. Back in tha day when eq2 first started, A few of the dismal rage occultists would brag about how dismal rage has found a new way to draw on their powers. How did they manage this with the world sealed off from innoruuk? </P> <P>Unless he was already here...</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>“<I>By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.</I>”</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:06 AM</span>

Vhalen
06-26-2006, 10:02 PM
<P><SPAN>Hmm... That is a very bold theory from someone serving in the Overlord's army. There are many theories on whom or what Lucan D'Lere is and what does he consider paramount in Norrath. I would like to propose a theory of my own, but researching such subjects often invites unexpected company from the Freeport Militia, or even worse, the Lucanic Knights.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>As for the Teir'Dal and their newfound allegiance to Freeport, there are reasons they would be drawn to this city. One great reason to make your home in the claybrick canyons of Freeport would be the presence of the Foci. She has long been known as a legendary figure of the Teir'Dal society. With the absence of a great leader, she would be a beacon of light, or dark. The Foci had an association with the queen of Neriak and many Teir'Dal knew this, but may not care to share it with other races. Make no mistake, the Teir'Dal do not play the fool. They have good reason to be there, even a few that other Teir'Dal are not privileged to know... until the time is right.</SPAN></P>

JadeHea
06-26-2006, 10:11 PM
<P>Ok, sorry i keep adding to my own post...</P> <P>But i saw this in a differnt thread and wanted to address it.</P> <HR> <P>No offense, but Killashack wasn't the first/original person to come up with that hypothesis :smileywink: Someone posted it in these forums some time ago... and if Killashack says he's never posted here, then it couldn't have been him. Also, not to burst any bubbles, but the hypothesis was later proven false (perhaps) by the fact that the scar from Teir`Dal general in the PnP series and Lucan's scar are on opposite eyes.<BR><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>I would hope im not the first... Cause one lone man spouting doom is just nothing more than a lunitic. :smileywink:</P> <P>In my notes I call this scar "The mark". I never said the mark was on the same eye. Buti do say they both have the same scar. A mark that covers one eye. I think those that have been filled with his evil touch are marked. Maby not directly it could be more of a side affect.</P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Lhranc, the first human shadowknight. He has lost an eye, and wound up as undead due to a curse that comes from Marr. And he was marked by Innoruuk. But it does not say how. (( Id love to confirm the face scar is the same if anyone knows please do tell me. )) </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Sarge</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>"<EM>By the pricking of my thumbs, Somthing wicked this way comes."</EM></SPAN></P>

JadeHea
06-26-2006, 10:32 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vhalen wrote:<BR> <P><SPAN>Hmm... That is a very bold theory from someone serving in the Overlord's army. <FONT color=#ff0000>(( Lord Lucan knows my characters history? That ole Sarge was in his army?  *sniff* I think i just got a warm fuzzy in my black heart.))</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN> There are many theories on whom or what Lucan D'Lere is and what does he consider paramount in Norrath. I would like to propose a theory of my own, but researching such subjects often invites unexpected company from the Freeport Militia, or even worse, the Lucanic Knights.<FONT color=#ff0000> (( Ole Sarge is fine with Lucan being a subject of and or Innoruuk. Inorruuk hates all equally. The first ShadowKnight was human. He does not fear that being human will hurt his rank. Infact he is Loyal to Lucan to a fault. He just wishes to know a little more about his boss is all....))</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>As for the Teir'Dal and their newfound allegiance to Freeport, there are reasons they would be drawn to this city. One great reason to make your home in the claybrick canyons of Freeport would be the presence of the Foci. She has long been known as a legendary figure of the Teir'Dal society. With the absence of a great leader, she would be a beacon of light, or dark. The Foci had an association with the queen of Neriak and many Teir'Dal knew this, but may not care to share it with other races. <FONT color=#ff0000>((Not to sound flippy, But i have always told any who would listen to my blabberings that All these missions into old fallen gate were to find some old artifact. ((not telling what one.))  Or had somthing to do with the queen or queens bodey.))</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Make no mistake, the Teir'Dal do not play the fool. They have good reason to be there, even a few that other Teir'Dal are not privileged to know... until the time is right. <FONT color=#ff0000>(( Now i never said they were foolish, in fact i think they know exactly what they are doing. And I dont belive for a second they are the poor reffugees they pretend to be. I think freeport is under two attacks. Zek and his orcs, who could possible be allied with the Thexians. And Innoruuk and his brood of dark elfs that are takeing over the from the inside out.))</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Ole Sarge</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><EM>"By the pricking of my thumbs, Somthing wicked this way comes."</EM></SPAN></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

Andric_D
06-26-2006, 11:04 PM
Must admit I always just presumed Lucan was the Avatar of Hate

Kalem
06-26-2006, 11:05 PM
<FONT face=Helv size=2> <P>That indeed is an interesting theory ole sarge. I've had a terrible time trying to accept that all of the races would join one of the two cities. It's something that's been bugging me since way back when it was announced. Tierdal moving into freeport....even worse trolls. Ogre's with their new found intelligence choosing to serve under a human, and worst of all the Iksar. Not to mention the good side...dwarves leaving the comfort the underground to live in a city. I can understand the halflings, barbarians, and erudites, but have a harder time reconciling that for the kerran's, dwarves and high elves.</P> <P>As you pointed out many races (albeit hostile races) survived just fine without the safety city walls. From dwarf to ogres, any of the races could have built settlements, and expanded on that to eventually rebuild cities. Remember the coldian (sp?) dwarves of Velious. They found themselves in foreign lands, where enemies were bountiful. If something wasn't trying to eat you it was trying to kill you for the sake of it. Yet they managed to build an icy city. I have a hard time digesting that the shattered lands are more hostile than what Velious was.</P> <P>The bottom line is that I've always seen it as a time limitation the development team had. I don't think they could have built multiple major cities with the time they had, and thus decided to take this route instead. Makes me really feel sorry for Vhalen. He's no doubt had to work really hard to come up with Lore that would make sense of it all...no easy task when you have customers who played EQ1.</P></FONT>

Zin`Car
06-27-2006, 12:06 AM
<DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>Teir`Dal</FONT>...  It's E - I not ie.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, just a small correction, Lharnc wasn't the first SK.  He was the SK that was given Innoruuk's Curse.  Guess you could say he was the first SK to weild it.  But that's the only <EM>first </EM>he has to his name.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like your theories and ideas though you have presented.  Well thought out <STRONG>AND</STRONG> <EM><U>substantiated</U></EM>... something that many fail to do when they either present an idea or argue against one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you haven't consulted them for information yet, check out the EQ PnP books.  Lot's of great lore and information there.  If you have, Kudos to you for delving into all venues possible in seeking your information.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>*slight derail here*</EM></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff>"He's no doubt had to work really hard to come up with Lore that would make sense of it all...no easy task when you have customers who played EQ1."</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Though i am sure someone (many someones) have put a lot of time into the lore of the game, but there was a TON to draw from to begin with.  I think MANY liberties were taken with A LOT of things that didn't need to be.  I can buy into Lucan being "brought back to life" and made ruler of Freeport.  It works out quite well and is befitting of the evil side stereo-type.  But things like Befallen (Stormhold) ending up on a WHOLE DIFFERENT CONTINENT is just really... poor implimentation.  It was on the same continent as Freeport... I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of the Shattering LAUNCHING a ruin into the sky and it coming back down on a whole different land...  umm... no.  But hey, i didn't get paid to write ingame lore so, i am just another peanut taking up a seat in the gallery.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Zin`Carla on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:18 PM</span>

Cusashorn
06-27-2006, 12:38 AM
<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Andric_D wrote:<BR>Must admit I always just presumed Lucan was the Avatar of Hate<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nah. Lucan doesn't believe in the gods. Even if he did, he shows more qualities of Solusek Ro than Innoruuk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not talking about the whole Fire thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solusek Ro is a god who will jump at the opportunity to aquire power at the first sign he gets. All Lucan wants is power. To rule over everyone in any way he see's fit. Solusek Ro isn't specifically Evil, but he will work with evil if it means he can further spread his influence. Hence, his whole involvement with Rallos Zek in the Planes of Power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's my perspective, anyway.</DIV>

i3ry
06-27-2006, 12:39 AM
While we're on the subject of corrections, Befallen and Stormhold are two different structures.<div></div>

Ktok
06-27-2006, 12:45 AM
<DIV>Interesting... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That Lucan is undead is actually documented in game as part of Antonia's statue's dialog.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I would conclude from the information that you've posted is not that he is the Avatar of Hate, but rather he is an undead puppet controlled by the Foci.</DIV>

Cusashorn
06-27-2006, 12:52 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ktok wrote:<BR> <DIV>Interesting... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That Lucan is undead is actually documented in game as part of Antonia's statue's dialog.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I would conclude from the information that you've posted is not that he is the Avatar of Hate, but rather he is an undead puppet controlled by the Foci.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>He became a Lich before The Foci aquired the power that has made her famous.</P> <P> </P> <P>Either way, he's been a Lich for over 500 years, and it's quite a well known statement.</P>

Zin`Car
06-27-2006, 01:50 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> i3ry2k wrote:<BR>While we're on the subject of corrections, Befallen and Stormhold are two different structures.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>that's a fine rebuttle but as i had said also in my previous statement, very few ever present substance to bolster such comments.  like this quote...</P> <P>According to everything i have read regarding SH, it is supposed to be Befallen... I have no problem entertaining your opposition.  But at least put substance behind it.  Otherwise you have have the seat next to me in this (peanut) gallery.</P>

JadeHea
06-27-2006, 02:12 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ktok wrote:<BR> <DIV>Interesting...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That Lucan is undead is actually documented in game as part of Antonia's statue's dialog.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I would conclude from the information that you've posted is not that he is the Avatar of Hate, but rather he is an undead puppet controlled by the Foci.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>Ok, like i said earlier this is only my partial notes. I got tons. **chuckles** But let me quote again from The Tomb of Destiny. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>Quote from the Tome of Destiny:</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>An armored rider on a black horse reached the top of the summit and dismounted. He walked to the body of the fallen avatar and lifted the sword from its lifeless hand. The blade burned with unholy fire as the dark knight held it aloft.</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>"D'Lere!" the monk called out. "That sword doesn't belong to you."</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>The Overlord removed his helmet to reveal a scarred, smirking face. "Of course it does, fool," he replied. "Soulfire is now where it was always meant to be. I thank you for bringing it to me, and for delivering the true enemies of Freeport to justice."</SPAN><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>That monk was one of the good avatars. Had Lucan just been a puppet undead I think he would have walked over and proceeded to kick his [Removed for Content]. But that monk was tired, and did not want to confront Lucan at all.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Also I cant see any dark elf letting a puppet wield Soulfire. That’s like letting my six year old play with a nuke.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Now Lucan did have all the followers of Marr butchered at the end of that battle. And its no secret he hated them after what happened to him in eq1. But I can also argue that Innoruuk was no fan of Marr and his followers either. As Marr often cursed those that Innoruuk had touched. And Inorruuk killing all of Marrs followers while in the guise of Lucan is in my opinion classic of his style and manipulation.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Innoruuk is not Zek. He does not do frontal assaults in plain view. He manipulates his enemies to fight each other. <SPAN> </SPAN>And there is an awful lot of politics, intrigue, and manipulation going on in Freeport right now. All call signs of Innoruuk.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Sarge</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></SPAN> </P><FONT color=#000000><I><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>“By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes.”</FONT></SPAN></I><SPAN> </SPAN></FONT>

Cusashorn
06-27-2006, 02:17 AM
<DIV>Innoruuk doesn't care about politics or fear or military power. He's the god of Hate. If Lucan was the influence of Innoruuk, he'd hate everyone and everything, including his own position as ruler of the city, which he clearly loves.</DIV>

JadeHea
06-27-2006, 02:25 AM
<P>Yes he is the father of hate.</P> <DIV align=justify> <CENTER><B>Innoruuk - The Prince of Hate</B></CENTER> <P>Innoruuk is allied with Rallos Zek and Cazic-Thule, and the enemy of Quellious, Mithaniel Marr, and Erollisi Marr. <BR><BR>Followers of Innoruuk, the Prince of Hate, include nearly the entire dark elven race who regard him as their "Father". <BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>They believe that hate is a creative force, or rather "THE" creative force in the universe - creativity born of destruction.</FONT> <BR><BR>Love and kindness are tools for those too ignorant to know what they want or too cowardly to do what is necessary to obtain it. <BR><BR>They believe that it is only through the total disdain of your enemies that you can gain true power over them. <BR><BR>Pity and mercy have no power when confronted with contempt and viciousness. <BR><BR>It is the honest belief of the followers of Innoruuk that if they were to hate strongly enough, they could destroy all of Norrath.</P> <P> </P> <P>They are creative in there quest for destruction... lets take that quote from the tome again...</P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ffffff>"You ignore the honor in their hearts," Mithaniel Marr countered. "They have earned the right to exist, to ascend to greatness."<BR><BR>"Greatness?" Innoruuk cackled gleefully. "Leave them to their own devices and they will devour themselves in jealousy and hatred. The solution is not for us to kill them, but to step aside and let them feed upon each other."</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P>I just cant see the god of hate and destruction closeing the lid on this world and sitting back to let us destroy each other. When its what he has always wanted to do himself.</P> <P>Sarge</P></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:02 PM</span>

Cusashorn
06-27-2006, 02:31 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JadeHeart wrote:<BR> <P>Yes he is the father of hate.</P> <DIV align=justify> <CENTER><B>Innoruuk - The Prince of Hate</B></CENTER> <P>Innoruuk is allied with Rallos Zek and Cazic-Thule, and the enemy of Quellious, Mithaniel Marr, and Erollisi Marr. <BR><BR>Followers of Innoruuk, the Prince of Hate, include nearly the entire dark elven race who regard him as their "Father". <BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>They believe that hate is a creative force, or rather "THE" creative force in the universe - creativity born of destruction.</FONT> <BR><BR>Love and kindness are tools for those too ignorant to know what they want or too cowardly to do what is necessary to obtain it. <BR><BR>They believe that it is only through the total disdain of your enemies that you can gain true power over them. <BR><BR>Pity and mercy have no power when confronted with contempt and viciousness. <BR><BR>It is the honest belief of the followers of Innoruuk that if they were to hate strongly enough, they could destroy all of Norrath.</P> <P> </P> <P>They are creative in there quest for destruction...</P> <P> </P> <P>Sarge</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm sorry, what are you trying to point out here? Lucan wants to rule, not Destroy. He has no desire to destroy the world. He just wants to rule over it.</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyways, Go ask any other religion and they can easily say that Love, Honor, Justice, Fear, Mischief, etc can also be *THE* creative force of the universe.</P>

JadeHea
06-27-2006, 02:52 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm sorry, what are you trying to point out here? Lucan wants to rule, not Destroy. He has no desire to destroy the world. He just wants to rule over it.  <FONT color=#ff0000>((( Ok, again i dont think Lucan is working his own agenda but following the will of Innoruuk. Or is Innoruuk, or at the very least is his agent/avatar. I belive the reason Innoruuk voted against letting the evil gods destroy norath is that he wishes to do it himself. )))</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Anyways, Go ask any other religion and they can easily say that Love, Honor, Justice, Fear, Mischief, etc can also be *THE* creative force of the universe. <FONT color=#ff0000>((( This is not my words that you have issues with.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000><FONT color=#ff66ff>"They believe that hate is a creative force, or rather "THE" creative force in the universe - creativity born of destruction."</FONT> </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>If you dont like Innoruuk or his followers saying that they use hate creativily then i suggest you take it up with soney and have them change the lore on the website. </FONT></P> <P></P> <DIV>------------------------</DIV> <P></P> <DIV>Source: Everquest website - <A href="http://eqlive.station.sony.com/library/deities.jsp" target=_blank>http://eqlive.station.sony.com/library/deities.jsp</A></DIV>And if you want it to say that Love, Honor, Justice, Fear, Mischief, etc can also be *THE* creative force of the universe. then pherhaps do a petition? **chuckles**  But im just posting what i have researched.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sarge<BR> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:16 PM</span>

Diern
06-27-2006, 03:13 AM
<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zin`Carla wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>Teir`Dal</FONT>...  It's E - I not ie.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, just a small correction, Lharnc wasn't the first SK.  He was the SK that was given Innoruuk's Curse.  Guess you could say he was the first SK to weild it.  But that's the only <EM>first </EM>he has to his name.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like your theories and ideas though you have presented.  Well thought out <STRONG>AND</STRONG> <EM><U>substantiated</U></EM>... something that many fail to do when they either present an idea or argue against one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you haven't consulted them for information yet, check out the EQ PnP books.  Lot's of great lore and information there.  If you have, Kudos to you for delving into all venues possible in seeking your information.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>*slight derail here*</EM></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6699ff>"He's no doubt had to work really hard to come up with Lore that would make sense of it all...no easy task when you have customers who played EQ1."</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Though i am sure someone (many someones) have put a lot of time into the lore of the game, but there was a TON to draw from to begin with.  I think MANY liberties were taken with A LOT of things that didn't need to be.  I can buy into Lucan being "brought back to life" and made ruler of Freeport.  It works out quite well and is befitting of the evil side stereo-type.  But things like Befallen (Stormhold) ending up on a WHOLE DIFFERENT CONTINENT is just really... poor implimentation.  It was on the same continent as Freeport... I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of the Shattering LAUNCHING a ruin into the sky and it coming back down on a whole different land...  umm... no.  But hey, i didn't get paid to write ingame lore so, i am just another peanut taking up a seat in the gallery.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Zin`Carla on <SPAN class=date_text>06-26-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:18 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually Im pretty sure Lhranc was in fact the first Shadowknght. Do you have any evidence of a SK before his time?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I kinda had a suspicion that Lucan was infact the avataar of hate for a while. But even if he was story development will probably change at a whim :smileywink:</DIV>

JadeHea
06-27-2006, 03:27 AM
<P>Ok, i dont recall saying he was the first Shadowknight. I thought that i have been posting he was the first <FONT color=#ff0000>HUMAN </FONT>Shadowknight. But i see that i did in my post to lord Lucan... Well that was a giddy slip. </P> <P>I draw this lore from the eq1 epic shadowknight quest.  Here is a quote from that quest.</P> <P><FONT color=#99ff66>YOU SAY, 'What prophecy?'<BR><BR>Marl Kastane says 'I suppose it is time for the secret to be shared. Ages<BR>ago, two brothers were born. Glohnor was highly favored by the pompous<BR>Lightbringer, whose name we do not utter. Lhranc was chosen by the Prince of<BR>Hate to bring destruction and turmoil to the sons of men. The one thing they<BR>shared in common was their love of the fair priestess, Kyrenna. Kyrenna fell<BR>deeply in love with Glohnor. When Lhranc discovered this, he was overcome<BR>with rage and unwisely attacked his brother, who happened to be far more<BR>adept in combat. The fight cost Lhranc dearly. He lost his dignity as well<BR>as an eye in the struggle. He was ordered to leave Freeport and live his<BR>life in exile from the only home he had ever known.<BR><BR>YOU SAY, 'What became of Lhranc?'<BR><BR>Marl Kastane says 'Lhranc wandered the deserts of Ro for weeks, sinking<BR>deeper into depression and giving in to rage. Reports from the local<BR>merchants and caravans had him roaming the dunes muttering to himself<BR>incoherently. Eventually, he was forgotten, blending in with the hermits and<BR>madmen common to that region, forgotten by all save one.<BR><BR>YOU SAY, 'Who is the one?'<BR><BR>Marl Kastane says 'Innoruuk had not forsaken Lhranc. Once his rage and hate<BR>had matured and sufficiently altered his soul, the dark prince summoned him<BR>and gave him dominion over the demons that had enslaved his mind. He was<BR>given a weapon that made him powerful enough to slay any enemy that stood in<BR>his way. <FONT color=#ff0000>He was to become the first human to harness the power of the<BR>almighty shadowknight.</FONT> After years of traveling and teaching mankind his<BR>newfound abilities, Lhranc sneaked back into Freeport through a series of<BR>sewers in search of revenge against his brother and in hopes of kidnapping<BR>Kyrenna, the source of his obsession. Waiting until Glohnor was alone,<BR>Lhranc sprang from the shadows and slew his brother. This was the act that<BR>brought about his curse.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ff66></FONT> </P> <P>Sarge</P><FONT color=#99ff66> <P><BR></P></FONT><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:29 PM</span>

Sabatini
06-27-2006, 03:34 AM
<blockquote><hr>Sarge wrote:<div></div><p><span><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Freeport was the human city in eq1. After the shattering, it became the home to many of the races. The “human avatar Lucan” became its new ruler. But all the humans got the beggars quarter, which they had to share with the half elfs. Lucan mockingly renamed it Beggars Court. This is a strange way for a human ruler to treat his fello humans. Now this always bugged me because it never made sense. Why did all the humans get relocated to the crummy part of the city when our ruler is human himself? I could see us getting relocated if we had a non-human leader. But we don’t. On a side note… Dark elfs share their part f the city with no one.</font></span></p><hr></blockquote><p>No offense, Sarge but you're working on a faulty assumption based purely on the name of the sector. Beggar's Court is far from the 'crummiest' section of town. In Fact, of all the starting areas, the Court is the nicest. No other sector boasts such large open air areas. In fact, one would be hard pressed to find an actual beggar there. Nearly all other races get packed into tight crowded filthy alleyways, especially the Dark Elves. Further, Beggar's Court enjoys direct access to one of the richest sections of the city.</p><p>Personally, I never felt that was accidental. Lucan wants the residents of Beggar's to see the lifestyle a mere gate away for those strong enough to become a part of it. Lucan wants his subjects to get more powerful so they can serve him better. Survival of the Fittest. He even promotes literacy, interestingly enough. The opportunities are there for those willing to struggle to get them.</p><p>I believe thats the major reason those of half elven blood make their home with the humans. Lucan realizes that these half blooded outcasts, have the potential to struggle harder than any of pure blood. Because they more than anyone else have something to prove. That gives them the potential to exceed either of the races that birthed them.</p><p>Let the Dark Elves share their dark pit with no one. It gives them a false feeling of superiority over the races Lucan favors more. He's no fool, that Overlord.</p>

JadeHea
06-27-2006, 04:06 AM
<P>Ok, lets say your right… <SPAN> </SPAN>Why is it called beggars court? Why would a human leader give such a demeaning name to the area where those of his kind live? In old times those that lived out in a courtyard were considered the poor. Having your door open up to a market place is NOT high class living.</P> <P>There is lore of what beggars court was before it was the humans home. Its not as classy as yea think lad.</P> <P><SPAN> </SPAN>Now granted I do like it as its really easy to maneuver though. And it does have access to north Freeport. But again… it’s the open courtyard market place. You don’t really think they going to build a huge fish market in the middle of North Freeport? No… its where all the slaves go to buy foodstuffs for their Noble Masters who live in North Freeport.</P> <P> </P> <DIV><SPAN>No offence, but I can see how a rat would think this is a good thing. *winks*  Oh! one more thing... Do me the kindness not to assume what im baseing my theorys from. Like I have said many times... I have tons and tons of notes. To post it all would be to much.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN>Sarge</SPAN></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:44 PM</span>

Cusashorn
06-27-2006, 04:33 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JadeHeart wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm sorry, what are you trying to point out here? Lucan wants to rule, not Destroy. He has no desire to destroy the world. He just wants to rule over it.  <FONT color=#ff0000>((( Ok, again i dont think Lucan is working his own agenda but following the will of Innoruuk. Or is Innoruuk, or at the very least is his agent/avatar. I belive the reason Innoruuk voted against letting the evil gods destroy norath is that he wishes to do it himself. )))</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Anyways, Go ask any other religion and they can easily say that Love, Honor, Justice, Fear, Mischief, etc can also be *THE* creative force of the universe. <FONT color=#ff0000>((( This is not my words that you have issues with.  </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000><FONT color=#ff66ff>"They believe that hate is a creative force, or rather "THE" creative force in the universe - creativity born of destruction."</FONT> </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>If you dont like Innoruuk or his followers saying that they use hate creativily then i suggest you take it up with soney and have them change the lore on the website. </FONT></P> <P></P> <DIV>------------------------</DIV> <P></P> <DIV>Source: Everquest website - <A href="http://eqlive.station.sony.com/library/deities.jsp" target=_blank>http://eqlive.station.sony.com/library/deities.jsp</A></DIV>And if you want it to say that Love, Honor, Justice, Fear, Mischief, etc can also be *THE* creative force of the universe. then pherhaps do a petition? **chuckles**  But im just posting what i have researched.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sarge<BR> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <SPAN class=date_text>06-26-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:16 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Innoruuk is only the god of hate, not Destruction. There is no god or spirit of destruction. Drinal comes close as the representing spirit of death and rebirth.</P> <P>2nd: You highlighted the part where followers of Innoruuk believe that hate is the creative force of the universe in red, which suggests to me that you're trying to point that out as a key detail. I argued that detail by saying that any other worshipper of any other god can easily state that they are the creative force of the universe instead.</P> <P>3rd: Lucan doesn't believe in the gods. HE DOESNT ACKNOWLEDGE THIER POWER. If he was influenced by Innoruuk, he would acknowledge it. He would probably be forcing the religion upon everyone in Freeport, which he doesn't. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Oh yeah. As for Beggar's Court, I think it was mentioned in the background behind Freeport that Beggar's Court is only named so because it's the re-built area of what used to be the slums of old Freeport 500 years ago.</P> <P>Personally, I see it as this: You can live in Beggar's court and live like a beggar, or you can make a name for yourself by aquiring power and wealth to move out.</P><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:36 PM</span>

JadeHea
06-27-2006, 05:28 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Innoruuk is only the god of hate, not Destruction. There is no god or spirit of destruction. Drinal comes close as the representing spirit of death and rebirth. <FONT color=#ff0000>(((Ok, im really not sure how to respond? That is a direct quote and pull from a soney lore web site. Here is anouther lore website that pulled the exact same info i did from the same source. </FONT><A href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=gods_innoruuk" target=_blank>http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=gods_innoruuk</A> ((This is a great site for those just starting or just learning about eq lore. The document about 95% of all lore with soney links.))</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Again, if you have issues with that quote its not mine. its Soney lore.)))</FONT></P> <P>2nd: You highlighted the part where followers of Innoruuk believe that hate is the creative force of the universe in red, which suggests to me that you're trying to point that out as a key detail. <FONT color=#ff0000>((( yes, your right I did. And it was in responce to this comment you made. "</FONT><FONT color=#3366ff>Innoruuk doesn't care about politics or fear or military power. He's the god of Hate. If Lucan was the influence of Innoruuk, he'd hate everyone and everything, including his own position as ruler of the city, which he clearly loves.</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>" I was just pointing out that his hate can be highly creative. For example he destroyed a gods creation by stealing some high elfs and touching them. Turning them into a twisted creation of his own. His destruction doesnt mean smashing somthing to bits. It has a creative spin to it. </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>Its not enough to just destroy somthing, he likes to do it in a way that makes you cry. Like feeding your dog raw fish so it gets sick and you end up being the one who has to put it to sleep.</FONT></P> <P>I argued that detail by saying that any other worshipper of any other god can easily state that they are the creative force of the universe instead. <FONT color=#ff0000>((( Again, these are not my words. if you want that statment added to the gods lore description you must speak to a rep at the soney lore site. These are not words i made up. I was just pointing out Innoruuk's acts of destruction can be creative and manipulative, as the lore states.)))</FONT></P> <P>3rd: Lucan doesn't believe in the gods. HE DOESNT ACKNOWLEDGE THIER POWER. <FONT color=#ff0000>(((Well of course not, he "Innoruuk" wants everyone to worship him so he is the most powerful. Then he can make his move to destroy all of Norath. )))</FONT>If he was influenced by Innoruuk, he would acknowledge it. He would probably be forcing the religion upon everyone in Freeport, which he doesn't. <FONT color=#ff0000>((( And how is that even remotely creative? thats like walking up to a drugstore and saying, "Im going to come back in 30 mins by then i should have all the gas, guns, and power to destroy you all. So if yea dont mind would you sit back and wait for me to return?" Just because the people of freeport are more inclined to be evil, that doesnt make them dumb. In fact evil people are more inclined for self preservation. If Lucan "Innooruuk" confessed to such a thing there would be mass rioting.)))</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Oh yeah. As for Beggar's Court, I think it was mentioned in the background behind Freeport that Beggar's Court is only named so because it's the re-built area of what used to be the slums of old Freeport 500 years ago.<FONT color=#ff0000>(((Aye, i read the same thing... just cant find it in all my notes. It was also used as a dock for goods to be brought into north freeport. But again... cant find it in my notes. To to to many notes.)))</FONT></P> <P>Personally, I see it as this: You can live in Beggar's court and live like a beggar, or you can make a name for yourself by aquiring power and wealth to move out.<FONT color=#ff0000>((( I see it more as lets take the city away from the humans, give them the servents/beggers quarter to live in. Cause its not enough just to take over, We have to kick them to the slums. And bring my children in and set up shop. Gather all races under me to worship til I have the power to destroy the world!))) </FONT></P> <P>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <SPAN class=date_text>06-26-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:36 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>And this next part is on a funny note just to keep it all friendly...</P> <P>Lucan the brain of this mad scheme looks out over freeport and his growing domain. He turns to his dark elf and says, "Are you thinking what im thinking inkie?" The dark elf responds, "Shor am brain, but how we gona get the trolls to dance with the lizards and do the poka?"</P> <P>Sarge</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:49 PM</span>

Cusashorn
06-27-2006, 05:47 AM
<DIV>Meh. I'm done arguing about this subject. Untill we find out more about Lucan in the game, it's all up for debate.</DIV>

Sabatini
06-27-2006, 06:21 AM
I'm just going to have to disagree with you that Beggar's Court was any attempt whatsoever to force Humans into a slum. Regardless of what your notes say, nothing takes away from the fact its still the nicest 'starter' section of all the races in Freeport. Furthermore, Humans are the most prominent race populating the 'inner' sectors of the city, where the higher class citizens live. Half Elves are equally well represented.Further, I dont really buy into the notion Lucan is an avatar of any higher power. At least knowingly so. Theres just too much evidence in the other direction. He spits at the gods. All of them. He turned his back on them and chose his own way. Why else would he populate the former temple district with the two races most likely to desecrate and blow it up? Why would he create a godless religion in its place?Lucan has his subtle moments, but for the most part he has a crusader's directness. Nothing says 'There is no higher power' more like floating your house over a city and taking a name like the Overlord. And as far dieties go, is Innoruuk any more subtle? That certainly isnt what he represents. If Lucan were really the Avatar of Innoruuk I dont think there would be much in the way of attempts to conceal it. If the history of our real world shows us anything, there's no shortage of fanatics willing to support some truly rediculous causes. If Lucan raised the banner of Innoruuk, there's be no shortage of loons going along for the ride.But really I dont see Lucan's ego allowing for the possibility of anyone having any power over him. Being unknowingly manipulated into doing a god's will has more likelyhood, but thats not really Innoruuk's schtick. Its more a joke worthy of Bristlebane.

JadeHea
06-27-2006, 09:08 AM
<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Sabatini wrote:<BR>I'm just going to have to disagree with you that Beggar's Court was any attempt whatsoever to force Humans into a slum. Regardless of what your notes say, nothing takes away from the fact its still the nicest 'starter' section of all the races in Freeport. Furthermore, Humans are the most prominent race populating the 'inner' sectors of the city, where the higher class citizens live. Half Elves are equally well represented. <FONT color=#ff0000>((( Well, i will be happy to read any lore you find about it and send my way. )))</FONT><BR><BR>Further, I dont really buy into the notion Lucan is an avatar of any higher power. At least knowingly so. Theres just too much evidence in the other direction. He spits at the gods. All of them. He turned his back on them and chose his own way. Why else would he populate the former temple district with the two races most likely to desecrate and blow it up? Why would he create a godless religion in its place? <FONT color=#ff0000>((( Well I have already said why i think he wishes to have the other gods forgotten. And i do think he wants that district ruined. Your asking a question ive already answerd.)))</FONT><BR><BR>Lucan has his subtle moments, but for the most part he has a crusader's directness. Nothing says 'There is no higher power' more like floating your house over a city and taking a name like the Overlord. And as far dieties go, is Innoruuk any more subtle? That certainly isnt what he represents. If Lucan were really the Avatar of Innoruuk I dont think there would be much in the way of attempts to conceal it. <FONT color=#ff0000>((( Ok, you seem to see Innoruuk in a differnt light than I do. He is very subtle in my view. When the gods left him out of the creation prossess he hated them for it. (<FONT color=#ff3399>go figure</FONT>) And he made a plan for revenge. This plan took about 3000 years to complete. Involved him hiding his true form and apearing high elven. placeing cursed around the world and corrupting the first high elf king and queen into the parrents of the </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT color=#ff0000>Teir`Dal, and pitting enemys against each other til his children could become the force that they were. When he has a plan he will go to great lengths to conceal it. Even taking the guise of someone else. </FONT></FONT>"Is Innoruuk any more subtle?" <FONT color=#ff0000>Im gona say yes he is</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>.)))</FONT><BR><BR><FONT color=#ffffff>If the history of our real world shows us anything, there's no shortage of fanatics willing to support some truly rediculous causes. If Lucan raised the banner of Innoruuk, there's be no shortage of loons going along for the ride.<FONT color=#ff0000>((( Ok, i dont think he plans to raise any banners. Sure a few loons when race with him to destroy the world. The rest of freeport would try and stop it. Like i said, evil is big on self preservation.)))</FONT><BR><BR>But really I dont see Lucan's ego allowing for the possibility of anyone having any power over him. Being unknowingly manipulated into doing a god's will has more likelyhood, but thats not really Innoruuk's schtick. Its more a joke worthy of Bristlebane.<FONT color=#ff0000>(((Well i dont think Lucan is the Lucan you think he is. In eq1 I watched him get killed often. Its not like they burried his bodey somewhere. He was destroyed. Granted, no one truly ever dies in a game like this. But his death is pretty epic. And im pretty sure on his death his soul did not have many options on where to go. I cant see the dismal rage letting go of such a prize so easly. I still think hes a husk hiding Innoruuk avatar. Just going through the motions of pretending to be Lucan. in the grand scheme of things? this little plan is nothing compaired to the plans hes done in the past. So what i dont get, is with all the plots and manipulation and 1000's of years waiting for plans and curses to bear fruit, how you think hes not this is not his schtick? Cause i think this is right up his driveway.)))</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></FONT> </P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Sarge</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

Grimjakk
06-27-2006, 09:53 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lucan the brain of this mad scheme looks out over freeport and his growing domain. He turns to his dark elf and says, "Are you thinking what im thinking inkie?" The dark elf responds, "Shor am brain, but how we gona get the trolls to dance with the lizards and do the poka?" <P>Sarge</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>okay... you owe me a new drink.  I just sprayed my last one out my nose....

CuddlingWo
06-27-2006, 05:24 PM
<div></div><div></div>I am actually pretty interested in this topic, and can see many of the points on both sides... so rather than attempting to pick a side, I will simply offer more information on which to debate, to keep this thread live and kicking.   Even if Killashack and the others who have come up with the theory before him are completely off base, its still good to try and figure things out... so I'll just add a few things.I hope I am not double posting this.... this is information from the EQ2 Atlas, which to my knowledge, the lore within was actually written by the EQ2 lore team as the acknowledgments state credit to "the crack writing team at SOE for their generous donatinon of much of the lore scattered throughout the guide."  It then goes on to specifically list Steve Danuser (Moorguard), Anthony Garcia (Vhalen), Jeremy Gess (Jindrack), Tracy Seamster (OwlChick the Quest Queen), and Noel Walling (Ilucide). (Love ya guys, keep up the good work!!  And come say hi in my channel!  /join Lucan_Dlere.EQLore  You are honored guests any time!)I love the lore in the zone descriptions of the EQ2 Atlas, especially the accounts of what happened within Neriak when it was invaded.  The following is the lore of Beggar's Court:The largest of the districts housed within Freeport's voluminous confines, Beggar's Court was once a prosperous merchant court before it fell on hard times.  Its populace is mostly Human with a scant few Half-Elves also making their homes in this rundown area.  And, though run-down it may be, that does not mean its occupants are any less proud of their home.  For a place with such a bedraggled name, Beggar's Cout is stunningly neat and tidy, proving that its inhabitants have a lot of pride in their surroundings (poor though they are).All that being said, Beggar's Court is the place to go to procure some less-than-legal implements.  Contraband is king in Beggar's Court and much of what is found here cannot be found in the city's other, more respectable, areas.  If you're looking for something slightly unlawful, there is every chance you will find it nestled here amongst the patched sail- and bed sheet-covered stalls.So.. it described Beggar's Court as a neat and tidy place, though its still a slum.. but only because it fell on hard times since it was one prosperous.   It refers to other more respectable areas, but those are probably the city proper, as the lore of other zones in freeport, don't really ever make the claim to be better than Beggar's Court in the EQ2 atlas.. at least not starting race zones.This is what the EQ2 Atlas has to say on LongShadow Alley:Longshadow Alley is unique among the districts of Freeport.  The reason for this difference is simple- only one race resides here: the Teir'dal, or Dark Elves, as their Human neighbors refer to them.  The Overlord counts the Teir'Dal as one of his most useful resources and has granted them the district as a show of gratitude for the service of one of their kind, the Foci of the Academy of Arcane Science.   As you enter Longshadow Alley, the first thing that commands attention is the fountain that houses an imposing statue of an angelic warrior fighting a lion.  The current speculation is that it was a symbol placed there by the Overlord himself so that his residents woul dnever forget where their loyalty should lie.  The Dark Elves adhere to all of Lucan's laws with apparently unwavering loyalty, but what happens in the shadows of the alley is anyone's guess.One of the more striking features of Longshadow Alley is a large, raised platform surrounded by small altars of fire.  The markings on the platform match the symbols of other areas of the city of Freeport.  It is said that these are the conduits for a teleportation spell used by the Foci herself for her frequent visits to the district.  ((NOTE: I've never seen one... hmmph))A Dark Elf of mysterious origin, the Foci is the head of the Academy of Arcane Science.  She is generally considered to be the most powerful mage in all of Freeport, second only to the Overlord in sheer might, and is enigmatic as any of Norrath's higher powers.See why I love the EQ2 atlas?Again, not taking sides in this debate really, its an interesting theory that I think makes sense in a lot of ways, but so does much of what is said against it.  I do think these two tidbits of often overlooked lore might help add to the debate a bit with some additional EQ2 accurate information.If the EQ2 Atlas lore has been posted online, great.. if not, if anyone wants to hear any more of the lore hidden within the Atlas, just send me a PM and ask me what zone its in reference to.Draxehn<div></div><p>Edit:  Thought I would include the Designers board IDs so everyone knows who wrote the EQ2 Atlas lore and can give them proper credit for the wonderful tidbits found within.<span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by CuddlingWolf on <span class=date_text>06-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:38 AM</span>

Troubor
06-27-2006, 06:41 PM
<DIV>I'm pretty much a full supporter in Sarge's theory...even if it ends up disproven, I do enjoy it, and enjoy how it's created so much speculation and debate, all of it very well thought out and cordial.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I do wish to research more when I have more time is Antonia Bayle.  It might be more of a stretch, but is "Aunt Bile" as Sarge keeps calling her (With Troubor IC giving a slight cringe then a smile, or just not making comment to be diplomatic), a possible servant, avatar or some other way very strongly connected with Erollisi Marr.  IF Sarge's hypothesis ends up true, IMO it does give a nice counterbalance..Lucan really being an avatar of Innorruk/Hate...Antonia being an avatar of Erollisi/Love.  Sarge planted the idea of Antonia possibly being an avatar into my skull, so thus that's why I do want to sometime soon start doing some more digging..done some basics on the surface, but nothing that can't be found on the lore forums here. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another idea....this one planted again by Sarge to give credit, is what if the "return of the Gods" will be each city ruler openly admitting they are avatars?  If such a return is happening at all, would be a different way of doing it..instead of the whole pantheon of the EQ1 dieties coming in, we get the two avatars...with maybe a third one (Tunare's maybe?) in the Expansion pack?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last paragraph is of course open speculation/rambling..but well..it is a nice idea IMO.  Might as well throw it out there for discussion.</DIV>

Sabatini
06-27-2006, 07:18 PM
The info given above from the atlas I think does a better job of reconciling impressions gotten by name with what you can see by simply stop looking in 'Tomes' and actually getting out and seeing the areas with your own eyes and talking with the people who live there. I think thats my problem with this entire theory. It flies in the face of any impression you'd gain of the Overlord based on current game. The Overlord is currently thought to be the reigning 'evil' force in the land. His reputation, quite honestly is so bad, that why not just go all the way? If he was trying to hide it, he'd do a much better job of it. If Innoruuk was the crafty god you think he is, then he'd seriously do a better job of it.Making the 'Kinda evil' guy into the 'Seriously evil' guy is, to be blunt, some very lazy writing and not very exciting. (This was my problem with 'Knights of the Old Republic II')Gosh who'd have guessed the Evil guy was avatar of hate? Or that sexy leader was the avatar of love? Who'd care? It wouldnt really change much in what everyone thought, only the intensity of the threat.No if Innoruuk was going to be crafty, he'd be manipulating events behind a face no one would ever suspect. Someone so untouchably 'good' that no one would ever think a bad thing about her. And he'd dress his avatar in something so trampy that her subjects would have trouble looking at her eyes, let alone her true intentions. Thats why he went for a High Elf in the past, and why now he'd be using ...Antonia Bayle.Think of how amazing a story that would be? Imagine if the only one who could save Norrath from the Avatar of Hate was the 'Big Bad' himself..Lucan? Now that would be a delicious turn of events that would throw every player's preconceptions out the window.And there is actually some evidence pointing in that direction if you look for it. I'll avoid any spoilers, but one need simply look below the streets of Qeynos to find a whole nest of evil.Further if we cheat a little and look towards the new expansion we'd know that the Gods are coming back at the same time we have a new city, and potentially new 'spokesmodel' for the game boxes. What better time to introduce the decendant of a certain sexy High Elf we knew from before the shattering? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Sabatini on <span class=date_text>06-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:21 AM</span>

Troubor
06-27-2006, 07:45 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sabatini wrote:<BR><BR><BR>No if Innoruuk was going to be crafty, he'd be manipulating events behind a face no one would ever suspect. Someone so untouchably 'good' that no one would ever think a bad thing about her. And he'd dress his avatar in something so trampy that her subjects would have trouble looking at her eyes, let alone her true intentions. Thats why he went for a High Elf in the past, and why now he'd be using ...Antonia Bayle.<BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by Sabatini on <SPAN class=date_text>06-27-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:21 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Something about the "dress his avatar in something so trampy..." really gave me a chuckle.  No, not belitting your counter hypothesis..in fact if anything I find it something to discuss also..could it be that Antonia is not nearly as good as claimed.  But...the whole "dress her trampy, so no-one looks in her eyes" idea IMO is funny.  The sex sells when deceiving mortals hypothesis?  <smiles></P> <P>Anyway...this even makes me even more so want to do some digging on Ms. Bayle when I do get the chance.  Really see if I can find some clue that either screams "Yes, she is who she says she is", or "No..she's an avatar of Erollisi" or even "No, she's a deceptive avatar of Innorruk posing as a benevolent ruler".  I suspect I'm going to end up with "Who knows"...or some such...but well, do want to see if I can find some things other then the easy to find lore that might point some direction or another.</P> <P><BR> </P>

Sabatini
06-27-2006, 08:15 PM
<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arvig wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Something about the "dress his avatar in something so trampy..." really gave me a chuckle.  No, not belitting your counter hypothesis..in fact if anything I find it something to discuss also..could it be that Antonia is not nearly as good as claimed.  But...the whole "dress her trampy, so no-one looks in her eyes" idea IMO is funny.  The sex sells when deceiving mortals hypothesis?  <smiles><BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>((Clearly thats what the art dept. at Sony believes when they tried to sell this game, right? And it would make for some tasty irony. :smileywink: )) Any humor here was purely intentional.<BR></P> <P>Sadly though, one of the best sources of information on what each ruler is truly like has been removed (I think). When I betrayed cities two years ago I got to see a side of each ruler most of its citizens dont usually see. And let me tell you, nothing sets off the old warning flags more like being told the only way you can make up for being for living in the 'evil' city is by killing 505 sentients for the 'Good' one. And they were okay with me meeting my quota using children...interesting.</P></DIV>

Troubor
06-27-2006, 08:40 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sabatini wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arvig wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Something about the "dress his avatar in something so trampy..." really gave me a chuckle.  No, not belitting your counter hypothesis..in fact if anything I find it something to discuss also..could it be that Antonia is not nearly as good as claimed.  But...the whole "dress her trampy, so no-one looks in her eyes" idea IMO is funny.  The sex sells when deceiving mortals hypothesis?  <smiles><BR> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>((Clearly thats what the art dept. at Sony believes when they tried to sell this game, right? And it would make for some tasty irony. :smileywink: )) Any humor here was purely intentional.<BR></P> <P>Sadly though, one of the best sources of information on what each ruler is truly like has been removed (I think). When I betrayed cities two years ago I got to see a side of each ruler most of its citizens dont usually see. And let me tell you, nothing sets off the old warning flags more like being told the only way you can make up for being for living in the 'evil' city is by killing 505 sentients for the 'Good' one. And they were okay with me meeting my quota using children...interesting.</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Took me a bit to think of what you mean when you said "children", but yes, some of the lower level gnoll mobs are named things like "Darkpaw youths", and although I've never done a betrayal quest, have mentored to help friends finish them, both IC and just OOC grinding.</P> <P>Having said that, if one thinks about it, what would one be doing to prove one has killed 500 gnolls of a non-descript nature, plus 5 that are infamous enough to be known by a unique name?  I would assume a trinket from their body commonly carried by all, or even something like 500 pairs of gnoll ears.  An ear from an adolscent gnoll wouldn't be distinct enough to tell from an adult one, not sure anyone could look at one and say "OH...wait..I meant adults...not the youths...you sicko, we deny you entry, go crawl back to Freeport!".</P> <P>Then there's the comment that even the youths seem to be a menace...people start adventuring in Antonica around level 10 or so...you try soloing some of the level 11 heroic gnolls at level 10, even if some might (I think) be labelled "youths" or at least use the smaller adolscent sized gnoll model.  The youths do seem agressive enough to attack if someone gets close.  (Can't think of any gnoll mob in Antonica that won't aggro unless gray, at least not offhand).</P> <P>Or put it another way, if I'm a traveller, adventurer or otherwise, and I see a group of 3 or 4 gnolls charging me barking and growling while shaking weapons, will I stop to wonder if I'm killing adolscent ones, or just defend myself then report I was attacked to the city guard later when I get back home, presuming I survive?</P> <P><BR> </P>

JadeHea
06-27-2006, 08:54 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Sabatini wrote:<BR><BR><BR><BR>No if Innoruuk was going to be crafty, he'd be manipulating events behind a face no one would ever suspect. Someone so untouchably 'good' that no one would ever think a bad thing about her. And he'd dress his avatar in something so trampy that her subjects would have trouble looking at her eyes, let alone her true intentions. <FONT color=#ff0000>((( One of the reasons his plans took so long is the fact he cant pretend to be good. After just a short time the high elfs would see through his ruse. So when he took the form of others he had to be quick about his bussiness and then leave. If he was Aunt Bile he would be doing things like haveing tantrums that would make a four year old proud every time somone mentioned the name Marr. He can hide his persona much better inside Lucan. I will agree that it is not much of a plot twist to go from a small bad guy to a big bad guy. But again, im just trying to make sence of all the lore pieces i have. </FONT></P> <P>Thats why he went for a High Elf in the past, and why now he'd be using ...Antonia Bayle.<FONT color=#ff0000> ((( The reason he went after high elfs is they were the first race to become dominate and kick out the dragons. He also liked the fact they were acompished users of magic. The fact that they were good and loveing was more of a bonus. He had full intentions of making his children in the shadow of the first dominate race that removed the dragon threat. )))</FONT></P> <P>Think of how amazing a story that would be? Imagine if the only one who could save Norrath from the Avatar of Hate was the 'Big Bad' himself..Lucan? Now that would be a delicious turn of events that would throw every player's preconceptions out the window.<FONT color=#ff0000>((( That would be a great plot twist. It would also mean that Innorukk has learned how to at least pretend to be loving and kind. As he has been Aunt Bile now for at least two years. I just think that would be to hard for him to pull off. But on a side note, maby not... its not like Lucan or Aunt bile makes daily trips to visit the public.)))</FONT><BR><BR>And there is actually some evidence pointing in that direction if you look for it. I'll avoid any spoilers, but one need simply look below the streets of Qeynos to find a whole nest of evil. <FONT color=#ff0000>((( I flipped over all the big rocks on my footpath that goes from the back yard to my deck, under them it was full of scorpians and cockroaches. I think my wife may be the dark elf queen. She does seem to suck the life out of me at times... Yes, yes, im being sarcastic. But my point is even the best of the good cities has to have a place for the dregs to go. But id love for someone to look into this idea and see what lore they come up with.)))</FONT><BR><BR>Further if we cheat a little and look towards the new expansion we'd know that the Gods are coming back at the same time we have a new city, and potentially new 'spokesmodel' for the game boxes. What better time to introduce the decendant of a certain sexy High Elf we knew from before the shattering? <FONT color=#ff0000>((( Ok, i live in vegas. And when soney did the "spokesmodel" thing here it was kinda a big thing. Believe it or not this place is full of sexy, or to coin your word "Trampy" strippers, cocktail girls, showgirls ect. And many turned up to be the new model. And the new Aunt Bile is rather hot! I think they made the new model human just so they would not have to add dorky elf ears each time they did a event or Con. If i remember correctly she has a three year contract.)))</FONT></P> <P> </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> I would also like to add this. I did not start off thinking Lucan was Innoruuk. What happend was that their are just to many things in freeport that did not make any kind of sence. So I started in freeport and started working backwards through the lore. It just turns out that Lucan has very strong ties to the dismal rage and Innoruuk. And again this is what ive put togther so far.</P> <P> I would love to see somone rip apart the town of Queensnots and Aunt Bile and dig deep and see what they find. I cant because working on freeport and Lucan takes to much time. I still have three quest lines in freeport i need to go do, not becuase it has rewards I want... but i want to see that part of the story.  And if someone else wants to dig through freeport lore and see if they come up with somthing differnt, id welcome that as well.</P> <P>Sarge<BR></P><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:57 AM</span>

Sabatini
06-27-2006, 10:48 PM
<DIV> <P>So, to be clear, you think it is possible for Innoruuk to put a 3000 year plan into action that involves him pretending to be a High elf, but couldnt pull off making an avatar of the queen of Qeynos for for say 5-10 years at most? If he could pull off one, he certainly could the other, right? <EM>(edit. nevermind, looks like you caught that and covered it while I was writng this...)</EM></P> <P>And really, its not like Antonia has done much in the way of public showings of love and kindness. Remember those humans in Beggar's Court you were concerned about? Well Antonia puts her her race in a Hovel. And like you mentioned, outside of Vegas, she doesnt leave her castle much. :smileywink:</P> <P>The real problem with researching Antonia, is that unlike Lucan, her history before becoming queen wasnt very well documented. For the most part, everyone has taken for granted that she's exactly who she says she is. If you look at Qeynos through an outsider's eyes (which was how I first experienced it) something isnt quite right there either. Qeynos isnt nearly as good as it likes to think it is...nor is Freeport as completly evil. (Just like real life)</P> <P>Anyway I'm just playing Devil's advocate as usual. I dont buy into my theory any more than yours, just making the point that either are equally possible...or not. Its all in how you interpret things. Either way its a fun pulling together all the lore and clues strewn about. I'd be just happy that there actually was a greater mystery to be solved with clues given over the last two years, regardless of the actual solution. Dont stop digging, it makes for great reading. And in Norrath or out, its always great fun to talk with you... Just stay away from my hat! Those feathers are expensive to replace.</P> <P>Just as an amusing postscript, though, when I was visiting the DIsmal Rage yesterday, one of the priests invoked Bristlebane's name (of all gods) in conversation with me. Maybe there's more to my earlier joke about him than I thought...</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Sabatini on <span class=date_text>06-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:51 AM</span>

Ranger1017
06-27-2006, 10:51 PM
To clear up the Befallen/Stormhold, there was a story explaining how Stormhold was built much later, and as it was built by the Knights of Thunder much like Befallen was, it shared certain architectural similarities. It was when the Bone Bladed Claymore was brought from Befallen to Stormhold that the taint of old Befallen was brought with it, causing all the undead we see today. I can't find that story at the moment, but I do have a quote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stormhold is not Befallen. What has....umm...befallen Befallen has yet to be revealed. But it is related to Stormhold. <P></P> <DIV>------<BR>Tony "Sir Lucan" Garcia<BR>EQII Game Designer</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>from this thread:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=8908" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=8908</A><BR></P>

Lings
06-27-2006, 11:38 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JadeHeart wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Sabatini wrote:<BR>*snip*<BR><BR>Lucan has his subtle moments, but for the most part he has a crusader's directness. Nothing says 'There is no higher power' more like floating your house over a city and taking a name like the Overlord. And as far dieties go, is Innoruuk any more subtle? That certainly isnt what he represents. If Lucan were really the Avatar of Innoruuk I dont think there would be much in the way of attempts to conceal it. <FONT color=#ff0000>((( Ok, you seem to see Innoruuk in a differnt light than I do. He is very subtle in my view. When the gods left him out of the creation prossess he hated them for it. (<FONT color=#ff3399>go figure</FONT>) And he made a plan for revenge. This plan took about 3000 years to complete. Involved him hiding his true form and apearing high elven. placeing cursed around the world and corrupting the first high elf king and queen into the parrents of the </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT color=#ff0000>Teir`Dal, and pitting enemys against each other til his children could become the force that they were. When he has a plan he will go to great lengths to conceal it. Even taking the guise of someone else. </FONT></FONT>"Is Innoruuk any more subtle?" <FONT color=#ff0000>Im gona say yes he is</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>.)))</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>Well... I think you misunderstood partially... While Sabatini did seem to say that Innoruk wouldn't hide it...it also says that Lucan isn't the least bit subtle (for the most part). His methods of demonstrating his power include having the Foci conjure up a storm to cover the continent of D'Lere and living in a giant floating castle that can be seen from hundreds of miles away. As Sab said, that's pretty much the biggest way of saying "There's no higher power than mine."</FONT><BR></P> <P>*snip*</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Sarge</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I wouldn't really agree that BC is the poorest or slummiest of the starting cities...</P> <P>However, on track, I think that Lucan has his reasons for what he does, but I don't think that being Innoruk is part of them (just my opinion here)</P> <P>As for whether the Lucan dying and becoming a Lich thing in EQ1... That doesn't necessarily equate to him being destroyed from a lore standpoint.</P> <P>As I recall, people killed Lord Nagafen many times, yet he's still alive and well. Wasn't Kerafyrm killed a few times also?</P> <P>It IS a source by which to confirm that he is in some way, an undead.</P> <P>Also, there's still an NPC in the game that tells you that the Dismal Rage has found a source of power other than the gods of old. I think it might be one of the people in the Sunken City.</P> <P>The Qeynos thing... I can see as much corruption and evil in Qeynos as I do in Freeport. It's just that the corruption and such in Freeport is right there on the surface. In Qeynos, it's much more subtle; you really have to look close to find it.<BR></P>

JadeHea
06-28-2006, 05:51 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lingsch wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JadeHeart wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>Well... I think you misunderstood partially... <FONT color=#ff0000>((( No, I understand.)))</FONT>While Sabatini did seem to say that Innoruk wouldn't hide it...it also says that Lucan isn't the least bit subtle (for the most part). <FONT color=#ff0000>((( And i think this is where you guys get confused. I hate beating a dead horse but... Im debateing from the point that there is no Lucan. That Inoruuk is pretending to be Lucan.))) </FONT>His methods of demonstrating his power include having the Foci conjure up a storm to cover the continent of D'Lere and living in a giant floating castle that can be seen from hundreds of miles away. As Sab said, that's pretty much the biggest way of saying "There's no higher power than mine."</FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>(((Yep, he wants everyone to worship him as Lucan. I could not agree more.)))</FONT><BR></P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I wouldn't really agree that BC is the poorest or slummiest of the starting cities... <FONT color=#ff0000>((( </FONT><FONT color=#000000><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000>Ok, this sounds like an opinion? My personal opinion is that it looks nice. But im not basing this off opinions. Again, Game lore, Released storyline updates, In game quest and npc text. If you have any of that that differs from the lore ive found by all means please post it. But honestly id really like to stop debating that Beggers Court looks nice so it doesnt matter what the game lore says about it.)))</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P>However, on track, I think that Lucan has his reasons for what he does, but I don't think that being Innoruk is part of them (just my opinion here)<FONT color=#ff0000>((( Again, opinion... I would love for you to post his reasons and the game text, lore ect. you have for them. )))</FONT></P> <P>As for whether the Lucan dying and becoming a Lich thing in EQ1... That doesn't necessarily equate to him being destroyed from a lore standpoint.<FONT color=#ff0000>(((Thats not what happend? he just died in eq1. he bacame a lich later. And if you read my posts from before I have already stated that no one really dies in a vidio game. Its like a bad soap opra. They keep comming back fromthe grave. )))</FONT></P> <P>As I recall, people killed Lord Nagafen many times, yet he's still alive and well. Wasn't Kerafyrm killed a few times also? <FONT color=#ff0000>(((Again I already coverd this. Either you havent read all my posts or you like beating the dead horse. Leave the dead horse alone!!! )))</FONT></P> <P>It IS a source by which to confirm that he is in some way, an undead.<FONT color=#ff0000>((( Not really, Confirming somthing is finding a clear statement in lore or game text. Not drawing a conclusion based off lore or game text. When you draw a conclusion you get a theory. And this is what i have... a theory.)))</FONT></P> <P>Also, there's still an NPC in the game that tells you that the Dismal Rage has found a source of power other than the gods of old. I think it might be one of the people in the Sunken City.<FONT color=#ff0000> ((( Yes, and this is what I call red herring quests. Missinformation that soneys gives to sell part of an idea. Like the info they gave about Aunt Bile. She had no idea she was being groomed to be a queen? Im sorry, but if i got elfs and humans, giving me lessons in kingdom managment 101, Master magery, Diplomancy, and race protocals... Im gona take a hint or two about the future.)))</FONT></P> <P>The Qeynos thing... I can see as much corruption and evil in Qeynos as I do in Freeport. It's just that the corruption and such in Freeport is right there on the surface. In Qeynos, it's much more subtle; you really have to look close to find it.<FONT color=#ff0000>((( Again, id love for somone to go look and post what lore and info they find. If enough lore was found and posted it might shed some light on her story.)))</FONT><BR></P> <HR> <BR>Sarge</BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:07 PM</span>

CuddlingWo
06-28-2006, 02:18 PM
Sabatani said: <b>So, to be clear, you think it is possible for Innoruuk to put a 3000 year plan into action that involves him pretending to be a High elf, but couldnt pull off making an avatar of the queen of Qeynos for for say 5-10 years at most?</b>Are you refering to the twisting of the dark elves on the plane of hate?  Because that took 300 years.  I'm a bit confused because the only mentioning I know of him pretending to be a high elf is when he travelled to Takish-Hiz as described in the PnP, and even there it says 300 years.  I seem to remember reading 3000 years somewhere, but always assumed it was a typo since every official telling of the lore I can find, says 300 years.EIther way, your point is completely valid.  300 years vs 5-10 years is still a pretty good point.  You just reminded me of reading that 3000 year thing somewhere and finding out it wasn't true when I checked other lore sources.<div></div>

Troubor
06-28-2006, 03:16 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sabatini wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>And really, its not like Antonia has done much in the way of public showings of love and kindness. Remember those humans in Beggar's Court you were concerned about? Well Antonia puts her her race in a Hovel. And like you mentioned, outside of Vegas, she doesnt leave her castle much. :smileywink:</P> <P>(Snipped most of the quote since I'm only replying to one specific part:  Troubor)</P></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Sabatini on <SPAN class=date_text>06-27-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:51 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well...Antonia is technically 1/28th elf, and the half elves are housed with the wood elves over in Willow Wood..but yes, I know she says she considers herself human also...I do remember seeing that in an "interview" with her.</P> <P>One thing to throw out there, her Major Domo (just calling him this, forget his actual title if any) is Murrar Shar...a Kerran.  She housed the Humans over in Nettleview Hovel...along with the Kerrans.  Now...is she saying that the Hovel isn't so bad, since her own race (or at least how she claims to see herself) and her Major Domo's people are both together in what was called a hovel..or is this her way of showing subtle disdain toward both humans and kerrans?</P> <P>Then again, one could argue that Nettleview Hovel can't be THAT bad...the Ironforges have an obvious influence in the city, and are a human family, they aren't exactly throwing a fit over the human refugees first being housed there.</P> <P>But then again, there's a lot of NPC Humans in Starcrest Commune too, hanging out with the Erudites.  In fact, the starting guide to Qeynos lists both Nettleview & Starcrest as "human villages" in part:</P> <P><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/classes/guide.vm?classId=99&id=4" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/classes/guide.vm?classId=99&id=4</A></P> <P>Anyway...something to think about...is their any realtion to where the humans have been placed in either city?</P> <P> </P>

Sabatini
06-28-2006, 06:37 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Are you refering to the twisting of the dark elves on the plane of hate?  Because that took 300 years.  I'm a bit confused because the only mentioning I know of him pretending to be a high elf is when he travelled to Takish-Hiz as described in the PnP, and even there it says 300 years.  I seem to remember reading 3000 years somewhere, but always assumed it was a typo since every official telling of the lore I can find, says 300 years.<BR><BR>EIther way, your point is completely valid.  300 years vs 5-10 years is still a pretty good point.  You just reminded me of reading that 3000 year thing somewhere and finding out it wasn't true when I checked other lore sources.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually my source was Sarge above in his response to me. Seemed a rather large number to just pull out so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he had a source for it. :smileywink:</P> <P>And Troubor, my point about Nettlesville Hovel is that anything you could say about Beggar's Court would equally apply to there. In reality neither is as bad a starting area as the name applies. But...in Freeport, the area the Dark Elves live in looks considerably worse, while in Qeynos the High Elves live in a beautiful castle setting...with frogs.<BR></P>

Troubor
06-28-2006, 08:13 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sabatini wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Are you refering to the twisting of the dark elves on the plane of hate?  Because that took 300 years.  I'm a bit confused because the only mentioning I know of him pretending to be a high elf is when he travelled to Takish-Hiz as described in the PnP, and even there it says 300 years.  I seem to remember reading 3000 years somewhere, but always assumed it was a typo since every official telling of the lore I can find, says 300 years.<BR><BR>EIther way, your point is completely valid.  300 years vs 5-10 years is still a pretty good point.  You just reminded me of reading that 3000 year thing somewhere and finding out it wasn't true when I checked other lore sources.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually my source was Sarge above in his response to me. Seemed a rather large number to just pull out so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he had a source for it. :smileywink:</P> <P>And Troubor, my point about Nettlesville Hovel is that anything you could say about Beggar's Court would equally apply to there. In reality neither is as bad a starting area as the name applies. But...in Freeport, the area the Dark Elves live in looks considerably worse, while in Qeynos the High Elves live in a beautiful castle setting...with frogs.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Oh, I understood your point, that's what prompted me to ramble on about Nettleview and Starcrest.  If Nettleview is truly a hovel, not only does she place some of the humans there, but the people of her major domo Murarr there too.</P> <P>But if you want beautiful settings, IMO the best are Willow Wood and Baubbleshire.  Although Castleview isn't bad..but if you look at the inn, I think one or two windows are busted out and boarded up..been ages since I have though.</P> <P>As for where they put the Frogloks...well, I was pretty new to the game when they were unlocked, but I half expected them to clear out the Peat Bog and switch it to a housing area at the time.  <winks></P> <P><BR> </P>

JadeHea
06-28-2006, 11:47 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually my source was Sarge above in his response to me. Seemed a rather large number to just pull out so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he had a source for it. :smileywink:<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Pffft Me have a source?? **chuckles** of course i do. That number is a rough number That I quickly rounded up when I did a mental sift thorugh the timeline. It starts from the point where the gods left him out of the creation. And he gets angry and makes a plan. And it ends when hes children are on on top of the food chain.  ill post some of the timeline.</P> <P> </P> <P>Age of Scale:<BR>...0 - 2700<BR>Veeshan creates the Dragons<BR>Brell creates the Kobolds<BR><BR>Elder Age:<BR>2700 - 3000<BR>1st pact of the gods<BR><BR>Age of Monuments:<BR>3000 - ?<BR>2nd pact of the gods<BR>3615 - 5 different tribes iksar<BR><BR><BR>If the Iksars are created in 3000, and were enslaved kinda fast (if they had the time to settle down, they would have rather died than fall into slavery, we know iksars <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)... And if the 5 tribes took like 10 years to be formed (that's a rough estimation *sighs*), then the Green Mist freed the Iksars in 3605, which I rounded to 3600 to make it easier.<BR>It makes the enslavement lasts for something like 600 years, which is honorable for a millenium in my opinion.<BR>So if the Gren Mist came in 3600 AN, it's 0 AG, we have the cross reference to compare AN and AG datations.<BR><BR>What else do we know ?<BR><BR>"The Prince of Flame watched the elves quietly build and live without conflict for thousands of years. [...] Innoruuk tortured the elven king and queen of Takish-Hiz for 300 years."<BR>(from the LDoN dialogs after completing Adventures in Rujarkian Hills)<BR><BR>"This civilization flourished for a handful of decades before their magical powers became so great that the dragons of the world awoke and grew jealous."<BR>(on language, research & magic - EQ book)<BR><BR>"Qeynos was built after the Combine Empire fell which really wasn't that long ago in Norrath's history, about 5000 to 5100."<BR>(Vahlar-Dev - EQ forums)<BR><BR>"Antonius Bayle II was crowned in 5191 at the age of 36. He lead the movement to have the continent of Tunaria renamed Antonica, obsensibly in Honor of his father, but of course his own name was the same, as some sages wryly noted at the time. During his reign, the hole was formed when the heritics of Erudin revolted against thier high council and left thier citadel. This marked the beginning of the age of Turmoil, during which Antonius Bayle II was dubbed the "Great Defender<BR>The Third member of the dynasty was born in 5214 and spent his childhood watching the events of the world unfold. During his time Sir Lucan took over the trade city of freeport and the heretics of Erudin completed the construction of their city Paineel. When he came to power, he did his best to be neutral. His efforts at remaining so earned his the nickname the Great Diplomat"<BR>(MoM book)<BR><BR>It means:<BR><BR>- Innoruk watched the elves for more than 1000 years, then created the Dark Elves 300 years later, which means at least 1300 years passed between the creation of the elves and the one of the dark elves.</P> <P>2nd pact of the gods<BR>3000 - Cazic-Thule creates the Trolls, Lizard Men and Iksars<BR>Bristlebane creates the Halflings<BR>Rallos Zek creates the Ogres and Orcs<BR>3600 - iksar free ?<BR>3615 - 5 different tribes iksar<BR>4000/4300 - Innoruuk takes the 1st Elven King & Queen of Takish-Hiz, creates the Teir'Dal<BR>1st Rallosian Army enters Plane of Earth, the Gods curse Ogres, Goblins, Giants<BR><BR>Age of Blood :<BR>4600 - 5000<BR>4600 - Enlightenment of Barbarians<BR>4700 - Raise of the Combine Empire<BR>Fall of Takish-Hiz, the Elves flee to Faydwer<BR><BR>Lost Age :<BR>5000 - ?<BR>5000 - Fall of the Combine Empire<BR>Freeport founded as we know it by Aataltaal<BR>5130 - Qeynos founded</P> <P>5315 - Everquest begins<BR></P> <P> </P> <P> <FONT color=#ff0000>The number of 3000 years that im refering to is roughly from the end of the age of scale, when creation was first starting. </FONT>(((Edit: let me clairify this part. The first part of creation is when the nameless/ageless one created our plane. But he could not "feel" his creation. So he asked the gods to add somthing to give his creation life. so he could feel it. When i speak of the act of creation im speaking of this step. When the gods began to create differnt forms of life. When they went to go do this they found that the dragon god had alredy found this plane and put her children there. But that is a differnt story.)))<FONT color=#ff0000>To the time of eq1 starts. This is about 2700 years. Ok... so thats not 3000 but its not a bad number for an old man to pull out of his head on a moments notice. In that rough 3000 years he has 3 big plans and a number of smaller ones. its a pretty interesting read.</FONT></P> <P>Sarge<FONT color=#ff0000><BR></FONT></P><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:16 PM</span>

JadeHea
06-29-2006, 01:13 AM
<DIV> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P>Ok… let me give you a picture on how I see that Innoruuk operates. It might help you understand where im coming from. Lets talk about three brothers.</P> <P> </P><SPAN>Rallos Zek- </SPAN><SPAN>The oldest and the strongest. Dumb as a box of rocks, meaner than rabid dog.</SPAN> <P> </P> <P>Brattigan- Second eldest. He has good strength and good smarts.</P> <P> </P> <P>Innoruuk- The youngest. Not as strong as his two elder brothers, But smarter than both. And he hates them both for being older than him. Bigger than him…</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> Brattagan decides hes gona sneak into Rallos’s room and take a sneak look at the balsawood ship his brother has made. This ship is a big accomplishment for his older brother. The Fact is Rallos is abit slow and it took him a year to put this model together. Brattigan is poking around at the sails, playing with the little cannons on the ship.</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN> </SPAN>When all of a sudden his older brother walks in. Rallos sees that Brattigan is playing with his toy and gets mad. Rallos proceeds to give him several punches around the head and shoulders and kicks Brattigan out of his room with a resounding “AND STAY OUT!”</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN> </SPAN>Nurseing his wounds Brattigan goes and gets his favorite book (Scantly clad rulers of Norath.) And goes to flop down on the couch and do some reading. But on his arivel to the couch he finds his younger brother there watching tv. Smileing he picks up his younger briother and carries him kicking and screaming to the young boys room. “Your time for tv is over little man.” Brattigan says with a grin. “I will get you for this!” snarls Innoruuk.</P> <P> </P> <P>Brattigan on his way back to the couch stops by the kitchin for an apple. Reaching into his pocket for his pocket knife, he finds its not there. Shrugging to himself he sits on the couch and proceeds to eat his apple and reads his book.</P> <P> </P> <P>(((Now lets look at the dynamics here. Innoruuk and Rallos have this big brother watches out for the little brother thing going. And Innoruuk doesn’t wish to break that alliance. But he hates both his brothers and he really want to get revenge on Brattigan. So he makes a plan…)))</P> <P> </P> <P>Brattigan wakes up to hear a horrid screeching coming from Rallos’s room. Rallos come stomping out to the living room holding his ruined model ship in his hand. The sails are cut, the masts are smashed. The cannons and little men are all missing… And stabbed into the hull of the ship is Brattigans pocket knife.</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN> </SPAN>Brattigan quickly begins to rise from the couch. “Rallos I did not…” Before he can finish what hes saying, Both Rallos and Brattigan notice small cannons and little men falling from his open pockets while he is standing up. Brattigan looks at all the little men and cannons now on the floor. Then up to the livid face of his older brother. Rallos smiles “Here brother, let me return you your knife…”</P> <P> </P> <P>Now I cant write what happens next. As there may be women and children readying these boards. But the whole time its happening, Innoruuk is jumping up and down cheering on his ally. “Kick his [Removed for Content]! Cut him again Rallos! Teach that mean brother of ours a lesson!”</P> <P> </P> <P>((<FONT color=#ff0000>Now to me this is classic Innoruuk, hating and hurting everyone. Even his allies. But making it so his allies don’t hate him back. And still getting revenge on those who have wronged him. Its creative, its evil, at its over 1000 times worse than anything they ever did to him.</FONT>))</P> <P><SPAN> </SPAN>Now, I just cant believe that Innoruuk meant what he was saying at the council of gods. That they should sit back and leave the world of Norath alone. I think he is still angry about being left out from all the councils of creations. And we all know that hate is his big thing. He is also big on revenge. Only because he hates everyone, and he hates those that he thinks have wronged him even more. Or maybe they just get the main focus of his hate.</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN> </SPAN>I think that he wishes to corrupt and destroy the world in his fashon, it’s the perfect ending to the rest of the gods for leaving him out of its creation.</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN> </SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>But now we are getting into something different. We are getting into the “Why Innoruuk wants to destroy the world” part of my notes. And this is a whole different book. And when I say destroy… I mean his adaptation of destruction. And that is more like perverse corruption of the other gods ideals and creations.</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN><SPAN> </SPAN>I personally believe he cannot create. He can’t even make it rain. He can only corrupt. I think that’s why he had to have his mortal mistress make the rain while he claimed he could do it.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>Look at the two classes he "created". </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>1st Necromancer The dark elf queen. She learned this skill by sucking the life out of her husband.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>1st Shadow Knight The dark elf king. He learned to use his hatred for his wife to improve his warrior abilities. To even draw on hate itself to grant him power.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>These are not so much creations as that are corruptions. I have been trying to find a solid piece of lore that has him creating somthing from nothing. Real creation not just some sort of preversion/corruption. If any of you know of lore stateing otherwise id sure love to see it.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P>Sarge</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P></DIV><p>Message Edited by JadeHeart on <span class=date_text>06-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:51 PM</span>

Rashaak
06-29-2006, 03:36 AM
<DIV>/ponder</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think that the Foci is the Avatar of Hate and that Lucan is nothing more than a 'reanimated' pawn being used by the Foci, due to the fact he had gone to many great lengths to make sure he was a figure head amongst the people of Freeport. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"He inspires loyalty through fear, never showing any sign of weakness. But it is the forceful and insistent manner in which he speaks that captivates the crowd and helps make him a brutally effective leader."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wouldn't put it past the Teir'dal to use his body as a means to instill fear, loyalty, and hate amongst Freeport and the people of Norrath.</DIV>

Nocturnal Aby
07-02-2006, 11:48 PM
<DIV>Alright...I've read the entire thing, and, thought I'm sure you have a lot of circumstantial evidence to back up your theory, it seems to me that a lot of the things you base your theory is interperative (which, no doubt, is why you claim it to be a theory and not fact). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> On the topic of Beggars' Court:  As CuddlingWolf, aka Drax, pointed out, of the Districts, Beggars' Court has probably one of the nicer histories.  At one time, it was the home to wealthy businessmen, but fell on hard times.  This deffinately beats out Scale Yard, which used to be a holding cell for the iksar, and the Byway, Longshadow, Big Bend, simply seem to be sectioned off streets set up for the purpose of providing a district for the various races.  I think it's important to realise something here.  It seems from the lore I've gathered (and trust me, I have volumes as well, though most of mine I have simply read from various sources, such as Lumena's History of Norrath, Vhalen's quotes on these boards, as well as NPC dialogues in game)  that sectioning of these districts is a relatively new thing.  We know that the Ratonga weren't even around until 15-20 years ago, at least not looking for refuge in the cities, also, there is still an old man in Temple Street who refuses to move.  To me, the fact they allow him to live here is very odd, considering that he forced the kerra and erudites to live together as a show of his unquestionable power, and yet have an old codger defy the mandate of Lucan and stay in his home.  Also, the fact there is a very real lack of personalization in any of the districts.  With such a concentration of the races in these districts, they'd start making them look more like "home".  As things needed to be repaired or rebuilt, the residences would do so, and things would begin to change.  Dark Elf buildings would look more similar to the Foreign Quarter at first, and then grow to be like the other Neriaks sections (odd that it was called a quarter when there were only three gates, isn't it? Sorry, tangent).  The Erudite structures would begin to look more like those of Paineel,  and in Temple Street, you'd have mechanized door knockers, gears and whirligigs all over the place, sticking out of walls, Maybe some windmills on top of buildings, supplying power.  Scale Yard might begin to look more like Cabilis.  These changes would be relative quick to occur in places like Longshadow, Stonestair, and Scale Yard, because of the superiority complexes of these races.  As has been pointed out, no self-respecting Teir'Dal would tolerate living in the squaller that you see in Longshadow.  The same would go doubly so for the Erudites.  I don't think enough time has passed for this individualization to occur, meaning that the districts themselves are a fairly new concept (Since the Shattering, maybe?)</DIV> <DIV>As I said, the districts seem like a relatively new development, and it would make sense to do so.  Before the revamp, we were told that each city used to pay hansomely for well trained refugees, but in recent years, there have been so many refugees that their price is sunk drastically low.  Both cities are being flooded with people seeking shelter and protection from the wilds of Norrath.  How do you manage this massive influx of people?  You set up ghettos.  To further manage them, and make sure they are able to at least be somewhat productive members of society, you have someone set up to meet them, teach them a little bit about how things work, and tell them where to bunk up.  You will want this person to be able to speak their language, as well as know enough about their culture so that you are sure no misunderstanding can be made, because the last thing you need is unruly adventurers getting slaughtered by your Militia, because they didn't understand the rules.  Body removal would be too annoying.  Therefore you have the Mentors.  Now in order to make sure each refugee speaks to the right mentor, you segragate them, making sure they'll have to filter past their mentor.  By segragation, you are also putting them amidst their kind, possibly distant family, and this will help add to the cohesiveness.  Even though the Overlord is always happy to display his power, as he did in the Stonestair Byway, and he does everytime he gets a traitor from Qeynos (they are always defaulted to live in the district of their arch enemy, ie, frogloks live in Big Bend with the trolls), if you had that sort of animosity peppered throughout the city, it would stretch security forces thin, making it that much easier for the eager orcs to cause more trouble.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As has been pointed out, humans are more dominant throughout the city than any other race.  Even in the higher ranks, a human High Priestess runs the Dismal Rage, and even in the Militia, I have gotten more writs from humans than any other race.  The Coalition of Tradefolk also has more humans than anything else, perhaps the most racially diverse faction is the Seafury Buccaneers.  Some of the most powerful and well titled Militia officers are...ogres!  To me, it seems that Lucan puts people who proven their loyalty over and over again into places of power.  People he knows will do what he needs done, and do it without hesitation.  To fill this role, the race he uses most?  Well, many of them!  Different jobs require different skills!  One of the things I've bragged about Freeport is that no matter where you begin, if you work hard enough to prove your worth, you can work your way up to the top.  Now, granted humans have to share a district, but another reason might simply be that there are less humans that need a district to live in.  When relocating to create the ghettos, he used the poorest parts of the city.  Therefore, the only humans he'd be moving around, were the poor.  Those who have worked themselves up are already in the city proper.  Furthermore, it is just as likely that there weren't that many humans, so he put the half elves with them to help put the space to good use.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmm, since I have gone on and on about just the logistics of Beggars Court, I'll post a different post about Lucan himself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Nocturnal Abyss on <span class=date_text>07-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:02 PM</span>

Cusashorn
07-03-2006, 02:05 AM
<DIV>The description from everquest2.com says that Beggars Court used to be the original trade district of the Coalition of Tradesfolk, but is now one of the poorest areas of the city. It's famous as the most popular area to deal with contraband though.</DIV>

Diern
07-05-2006, 01:33 AM
<P>Couple of interesting points here.</P> <P><FONT color=#99ff66>The fight cost Lhranc dearly. He lost his dignity as well<BR>as an eye in the struggle.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>See any pattern here? heh.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ff66>Lhranc was chosen by the Prince of<BR>Hate to bring destruction and turmoil to the sons of men</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>Perhaps Lucan is in fact Lhranc..... Ok probably not but I do see a recurring theme with these bad guys.</FONT></P> <P>Also the other day I was checking out the Lucan statue in freeport, and it did in fact have a Shadowknight buff</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Diernes on <span class=date_text>07-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:34 AM</span>

Cusashorn
07-05-2006, 06:56 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Diernes wrote:<BR> <P>Couple of interesting points here.</P> <P><FONT color=#99ff66>The fight cost Lhranc dearly. He lost his dignity as well<BR>as an eye in the struggle.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>See any pattern here? heh.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#99ff66>Lhranc was chosen by the Prince of<BR>Hate to bring destruction and turmoil to the sons of men</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>Perhaps Lucan is in fact Lhranc..... Ok probably not but I do see a recurring theme with these bad guys.</FONT></P> <P>Also the other day I was checking out the Lucan statue in freeport, and it did in fact have a Shadowknight buff</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Diernes on <SPAN class=date_text>07-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:34 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Only problem is that Lhranc existed before Lucan was ever born.

Lyriel
07-06-2006, 12:18 AM
<P>OK, this is just a small point, but one that I noted back in EQ Live the first time my High Elf paladin laid eyes on Lucan in Freeport: <EM>Why does his surname follow the Teir'dal naming pattern?</EM> I think he is, and has been, Teir'dal all along. Rather like Opal in the academy, who hid her race while above ground. Opens up all kinds of interesting possiblities in my mind...</P> <P>Lyriel</P>

Cusashorn
07-06-2006, 12:21 AM
<DIV>The Dark Elves arn't the only beings in Norrath who use that naming pattern...</DIV>

KidMangaX
07-06-2006, 01:28 AM
<DIV>Well, after reading JadeHeart's words about the dark elves, I would like to point something out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Lucan is Undead. He is definitley a skeleton and is probobly an Archlich. That is why he is back in EQ2</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) His "Mistress/Assistant" is probobly an advisor, and is a Necromancer, as seen in the movie. The proof to this is that she used a Necro-Stun line called "Grasping Bones" on that human knight, and also rooted him before the stun. Also, Necromacy is a common practice among Dark Elves and Iksars, the cruelist and most hateful of Freeport's races.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Now, here's were I start raving about a conspiracy-----vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vv</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Theory-- Lucan D' Lere WAS KILLED IN EQ1, but was revived, by his "Mistress", who may have been a priestess of Innoruuk. <FONT color=#ccffff><STRONG>She is likley to be an incredibly powerful Necromancer considering her "creation", now called Overlord Lucan D' Lere, can speak, cast spells, and retain his mortal image (meaning you don't see rotted flesh dripping down his face).</STRONG> </FONT>Also, <FONT color=#66ff00>she probobly has complete, or almost complete control over him</FONT>, as the Dark Elves DO have a district all to themselves, they are rarley demeaned by anyone in Freeport, and other races are treated with malice <FONT color=#ff0000>(for example, Lucan placed 2 enemy races, the Kerrans and Erudites, in the same neighborhood; The court of humans and half elves was named "Beggar's Court"; etc...).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Also, I have come to wonder about JadeHeart's other point: Why are the Dark elves even IN freeport? It may be possible that they are going to do one of the following things:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>1) Take over Freeport ---- </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>BAD!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>2) They are infiltrating Freeport, and will eventually send for an outside force to take over Freeport ---- </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>BAD!!, BUT PROVES THEY SUCK</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>3) They are infiltrating Freeport for a higher power ---- </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>NOT AS BAD!! BUT ONCE AGAIN PROVES THEY ARE LESSER BEINGS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>4) They will continue to be snotty little Sasuke Uchiha wannabees, and can all kill each other with Kunai knives for all I care ------ </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>YAY! KILL THE DARK ELVES!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>5) They will try to take over Freeport, but will fail because their main source of power is the anime NARUTO and there is no TV in norrath, let alone Japanese anime. ---- </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>NOT AS GOOD AS 4, BUT IT'LL PUT THEM IN THEIR PLACE!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>6) Iksars Pwn --- </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00 size=4><STRONG>WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EE!!!! @[email protected]</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#66ff00 size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>7) The overlord reduces taxes in freeport, fixes the clouds in KOS, sends Mythical Items to Sahaquiel on the Lucan D'Lere server, and increases cloth relic drop rate in labs! ((Even if  you ARENT a mage, you should agree that there is a 1/100 chance of it dropping instead of chain or leather. Chain and leather are too common! I WANT CLOTH!)) ----- GOOD BUT NOT AS GOOD AS 6!!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>There ya have it. don't like it? Thats cuz you're a smelly little dark elf who gets off on Sasuke Uchiha and has no real skills of your own. <FONT color=#ff3300><FONT size=5><STRONG>And no</STRONG>, <STRONG>typing "/em uses the Sharingan!"</STRONG> <STRONG>is NOT A SKILL!</STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV>

Wilde_Night
07-07-2006, 04:58 PM
Erm... oooookaaay.

vikingthug
07-07-2006, 07:31 PM
<EM><FONT color=#ffff00>My god, what the hell does anime have to do with this?  Take your medication and stay away from Jolt!</FONT></EM>

Lings
07-10-2006, 06:10 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lyriel wrote:<BR> <P>OK, this is just a small point, but one that I noted back in EQ Live the first time my High Elf paladin laid eyes on Lucan in Freeport: <EM>Why does his surname follow the Teir'dal naming pattern?</EM> I think he is, and has been, Teir'dal all along. Rather like Opal in the academy, who hid her race while above ground. Opens up all kinds of interesting possiblities in my mind...</P> <P>Lyriel<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes... Yes, it is interesting. I believe his name was originally <STRONG>D</STRONG>eboter<STRONG>lere</STRONG> or something similar which was later made into the contraction form of D'Lere. The reason for this change? I don't know. (<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=7087&query.id=301458#M7087" target=_blank>find info here</A>)</P> <P>Btw. my other post... I don't want to believe that, yet. However, it is a very intriguing theory.</P>

Mordock of the Highwynd
07-10-2006, 08:58 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KidMangaX wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, after reading JadeHeart's words about the dark elves, I would like to point something out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Lucan is Undead. He is definitley a skeleton and is probobly an Archlich. That is why he is back in EQ2</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) His "Mistress/Assistant" is probobly an advisor, and is a Necromancer, as seen in the movie. The proof to this is that she used a Necro-Stun line called "Grasping Bones" on that human knight, and also rooted him before the stun. Also, Necromacy is a common practice among Dark Elves and Iksars, the cruelist and most hateful of Freeport's races.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Now, here's were I start raving about a conspiracy-----vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv vv</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Theory-- Lucan D' Lere WAS KILLED IN EQ1, but was revived, by his "Mistress", who may have been a priestess of Innoruuk. <FONT color=#ccffff><STRONG>She is likley to be an incredibly powerful Necromancer considering her "creation", now called Overlord Lucan D' Lere, can speak, cast spells, and retain his mortal image (meaning you don't see rotted flesh dripping down his face).</STRONG> </FONT>Also, <FONT color=#66ff00>she probobly has complete, or almost complete control over him</FONT>, as the Dark Elves DO have a district all to themselves, they are rarley demeaned by anyone in Freeport, and other races are treated with malice <FONT color=#ff0000>(for example, Lucan placed 2 enemy races, the Kerrans and Erudites, in the same neighborhood; The court of humans and half elves was named "Beggar's Court"; etc...).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Also, I have come to wonder about JadeHeart's other point: Why are the Dark elves even IN freeport? It may be possible that they are going to do one of the following things:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>1) Take over Freeport ---- </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>BAD!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>2) They are infiltrating Freeport, and will eventually send for an outside force to take over Freeport ---- </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>BAD!!, BUT PROVES THEY SUCK</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>3) They are infiltrating Freeport for a higher power ---- </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>NOT AS BAD!! BUT ONCE AGAIN PROVES THEY ARE LESSER BEINGS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>4) They will continue to be snotty little Sasuke Uchiha wannabees, and can all kill each other with Kunai knives for all I care ------ </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>YAY! KILL THE DARK ELVES!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>5) They will try to take over Freeport, but will fail because their main source of power is the anime NARUTO and there is no TV in norrath, let alone Japanese anime. ---- </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>NOT AS GOOD AS 4, BUT IT'LL PUT THEM IN THEIR PLACE!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>6) Iksars Pwn --- </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00 size=4><STRONG>WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EE!!!! @[email protected]</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#66ff00 size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>7) The overlord reduces taxes in freeport, fixes the clouds in KOS, sends Mythical Items to Sahaquiel on the Lucan D'Lere server, and increases cloth relic drop rate in labs! ((Even if  you ARENT a mage, you should agree that there is a 1/100 chance of it dropping instead of chain or leather. Chain and leather are too common! I WANT CLOTH!)) ----- GOOD BUT NOT AS GOOD AS 6!!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>There ya have it. don't like it? Thats cuz you're a smelly little dark elf who gets off on Sasuke Uchiha and has no real skills of your own. <FONT color=#ff3300><FONT size=5><STRONG>And no</STRONG>, <STRONG>typing "/em uses the Sharingan!"</STRONG> <STRONG>is NOT A SKILL!</STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You know, in the one and a half years that I have played EQII and visited these forums, I have only seen maybe three posts that I have found absolutely revolting and disgusting.  Congradulations, for your post has made this incredibly short list.</P> <P>Most of us that play EQII are mature adults or older teenagers.  We try our best to have many thoughtful debates and have Vhalen give us his two cents on whatever subject it is.  You do not contribute anything to the topic at all.  Yes, the first of the post was a set of intriuging theories.  Halfway through your post though, it seems like the person who was typing got up to get a drink of coffee and his nine year old kid brother started babbling some nonsense about Naruto and drop rates on items.  It's revolting for me to read.</P> <P>You also call the Teir'Dal "Sasuke Uchiha wanabees".  There are many many RPers here that play the Teir'Dal and would be offended at what you have typed.  On Antonia Bayle for instance, there is The Decipleship.  Almost all the people in this guild play Teir'Dal and would be offended.  I know a couple of members that browse this forums regularly, and would not be suprised if they gave you a verbal spanking, for lack of a better word.</P> <P>Mordock Highwynd- Guk</P> <P>Juliun Granger - AB</P>

Xxile
07-10-2006, 10:00 AM
<P>Well accutly he does state his opinion weather it be in a mature way or not.  Frankly twards the end it does seem like he's insulting dark elvs... and well he is but not all of its lies...  He shouldn't have to appologize either because thats how he feels about that race.  Frankly I think dark elvs are snooty and backstabbing, its one of the reasons they never conquered anything except the underfoot and they basicly dug a deep hole and built a city there and declared them selvs conquerers.  Dont get it twisted Dark Elvs are skilled in many forms of combat and have come close.  Now I'm through because as far as the overlord gose I dont realy care for him or like him.  All i know is he lets me live in his city and lets me kill his guards.  All i realy care about is getting back to my homeland and seeing my people.  But what I realy wana know is how does a Sister of Erllosie Marr from the sisters island get as strong as the overlord whos had like 500yrs of combat expiriance well shes only had a few?</P> <P>Oh and iksars do pwn I mean come on we took kunark and drawed in a war against dragons</P>

Tarkin-Wretch
07-12-2006, 01:07 AM
<P>i painstakingly read this entire thread and my eyes are now bleeding.  some interesting ideas.  ill throw some of mine out as well.  there is a connection of some kind between Lucan, Xanit and Lhranc.  i just dont know exactly what it is.  it could something as simple as all 3 were marked in some way by Inny, although i dont recall Xanit being marked persay except to say his scar was a mark.  </P> <P>this scar on Xanit however could have been the result of battle since he was part of a great army and fought many battles.  although he was the champion of neriak, he was betrayed by the officials of neriak and taken to the plane of hate by Inny so he could not cause trouble for the teir'dal and interfer with Inny's plans.  he was held captive in the PoH basically.  although he accomplished much for neriak, teir'dal and Inny, he could not be controlled.</P> <P>Lhranc, although the first human sk, was not nearly as important as Lucan or Xanit in the grand scheme of things.  possibly he could have been but ultimately wasnt.  his tale is one of revenge and jealousy and happens to involve the greatest sk weapon to exist (at the time).  he lost an eye in the battle with his brother, which leads me to believe that this is NOT the marking of Inny.  The mark of Inny is probably more inwards than a scar and lost eye imo.</P> <P>Lucan wore a helm in eq1 so its difficult to say if he was scarred back then or since then.  i do believe though that he had been corrupted, by whom is anyones guess although i suspect Inny, which is what led him down the path he followed, to be cast out and stripped of his paladin powers etc.  interesting to note that although someone stated his statue in freeport had an sk buff (i would have to check this myself ot varify), the statue on the isle of the overlord does in fact have a paladin buff on it.  the paladin buff is rediculous too.  it has a proc of like 4k dmg or something incredible.  surely just to illustrate how much more powerful he would be compared to an sk or paladin at our current lvl cap.  i do believe though that he was in fact unnatrually enhanced, possibly by the Foci and the dismal rage but in no way is an avatar of Inny or contain any essence of Inny except maybe the influence of hate.  he has in fact denounced the gods, believing what ever power he has is supreme on norrath given our current situation of no gods.  this may all well change before the end of the year.  its quite posible he has god like powers.  does this make him a god?</P> <P>would the gods be dumb enough to allow access to their planes yet again?  i would surely hope not or they didnt learn anything at all.  when they return they will continue as before and allow their plans to proceed by influence, not by direct contact.  which means that if no god can be proven through site, lucan can maintain they have not returned.  its a catch 22 i think.  he will be able to maintain this imo.</P> <P>as for beggars court and humans. i dont think he cares one way or the other about any particular race, even the one he was birthed as.  he is undead and cares not about things as trivial as this.  he has goals and compassion for his former race is not one of them.  he has placed races in districts for strategic reasons, period.  the teir'dal have been placed in longshadow by themselves, again, for strategic reasons.  Lucan did not get where he is today with no planning or acting the fool.  he's cold and calculating and furthers no one's ends but his own.</P> <P>the thexians and fallen gate....at release it was my impression lucan did not want neriak uncovered.  he would possibly lose control over the teir'dal which represent a great amount of his power.  i recall the thexians keeping their actions very secret to avoid lucan's attention.  lucan was not looking for something in neriak unless that was a rouse and he was behind it all in the firts place.  i wouldnt put it past him to decieve in that fashion but thats quite a risk to take.  he cannot trust the teir'dal and for good reason.</P> <P>You do have some interesting points but i draw a rather different conclusion from them.  Foci on the other hand.  where do her loyalties truely lie.  should Inny come back would she forsake lucan or has she always been loyal to Inny?  to be honest there are few who would remain in freeport or qeynos for that matter, if their homeland or god were rediscovered.  i think sony is walking a fine line here, especially on the pvp server where conflict is built upon the 2 warring cities.  granted a 3rd faction has been introduced as recently as lu24 but are exiled, in a state of limbo when it comes to a faction or affiliation, at least one with substance to match the others.  i know this is a bit off topic but kelethin will work because maj'dul works.  if kelethin could not align itself with qeynos, as it should, or else it would throw the balance off and players would cry, and rightfully so.</P> <P>does antonia bayle proclaim the existance or lack thereof of the gods?  does she look forward to their return or has she too taken the position similar to lucan's?  i dont know much about her tbh.</P>

TerraAki
07-18-2006, 07:46 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KidMangaX wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Also, I have come to wonder about JadeHeart's other point: Why are the Dark elves even IN freeport? It may be possible that they are going to do one of the following things:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>1) Take over Freeport ---- </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>BAD!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>2) They are infiltrating Freeport, and will eventually send for an outside force to take over Freeport ---- </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>BAD!!, BUT PROVES THEY SUCK</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>3) They are infiltrating Freeport for a higher power ---- </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>NOT AS BAD!! BUT ONCE AGAIN PROVES THEY ARE LESSER BEINGS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>4) They will continue to be snotty little Sasuke Uchiha wannabees, and can all kill each other with Kunai knives for all I care ------ </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>YAY! KILL THE DARK ELVES!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>5) They will try to take over Freeport, but will fail because their main source of power is the anime NARUTO and there is no TV in norrath, let alone Japanese anime. ---- </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00>NOT AS GOOD AS 4, BUT IT'LL PUT THEM IN THEIR PLACE!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>6) Iksars Pwn --- </FONT><FONT color=#66ff00 size=4><STRONG>WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EE!!!! @[email protected]</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#66ff00 size=4></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>7) The overlord reduces taxes in freeport, fixes the clouds in KOS, sends Mythical Items to Sahaquiel on the Lucan D'Lere server, and increases cloth relic drop rate in labs! ((Even if  you ARENT a mage, you should agree that there is a 1/100 chance of it dropping instead of chain or leather. Chain and leather are too common! I WANT CLOTH!)) ----- GOOD BUT NOT AS GOOD AS 6!!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=3>There ya have it. don't like it? Thats cuz you're a smelly little dark elf who gets off on Sasuke Uchiha and has no real skills of your own. <FONT color=#ff3300><FONT size=5><STRONG>And no</STRONG>, <STRONG>typing "/em uses the Sharingan!"</STRONG> <STRONG>is NOT A SKILL!</STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">You know, for a person that's coming into the Naruto fandom (I've seen a grand total of *two* episodes...in Japanese), this makes me sad to know how stupid my fandom is. </FONT></P> <P>I can stress how Sasuke is NOT NOT NOT evil. You might be confusing him with his brother Itachi. Itachi is the evil illegimate child. Sasuke is a brainwashed kid. There's a difference. <A href="http://community.livejournal.com/fanficrants/3018754.html" target=_blank>Here</A> is more stuff, for the people who aren't interested.</P> <P>So, please get out of my future fandom and leave my Sauce-kay alone.</P>