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oder
03-31-2005, 11:43 AM
    Hello, i have done some searching of this site, albeit not very extensive, on the history of the Troll race, and have come up with very little. Was just wondering if anyone had any info on Lore of the Troll's at all, or if anyone could point me in the right direction,. Would be much appreciated. And thank you in advance if anyone can. <div></div>

Renita_Serafim
03-31-2005, 05:20 PM
<DIV>I can't recall any of the top of my head, but I've read a lot of Troll history, so I'll look it up and post it here when I have a spare minute, 'K?</DIV>

Aion
03-31-2005, 06:42 PM
Did you check this out? <a href="http://" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=1743</a> Lots O' stuff there... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

Renita_Serafim
04-01-2005, 12:57 AM
<P>OK, here is everything I can find out on Trolls:-</P> <P>The trolls were created by the god of fear, Cazic-Thule, during the second pact of the gods during the Age of Monuments at the same time as the Iksar. However, Cazic abandoned the Trolls pretty fast in favour of the Iksar and they were left to fend for themselves in the southern reaches of Tunaria. At one point, they managed to gather into something resembling an empire, then quickly split into rivalling factions and scattered, regressing into barbaric tribes again, 7 in total. The struggle was known as the War of the Seven Tribes. In the end, only one tribe remained, led by a cunning troll warrior and visionary called Nalikor who quickly decimated the other tribes. Soon after, Nalikor's tribe met with the Ogres of Oggok and a war broke out. The trolls soon won their opponents respect and Nalikor soon managed to reach a truce with the ogre leaders. Nalikor then gave them his magic sword which was kept for many years at the sacred spot known as Broken Skull Rock. With ogres help, the trolls founded the city of Grobb, where the once again began to grow in power. About 500 years later, the Frogloks invaded Grobb following their enlightenment at the hands of Mithenial Marr and the Trolls were forced to retreat to Neriak, where they took up residence in the cities Foriegn Quater. After the closing of Neriak, the Trolls were forced to dwell in the Innothule swamp up until the shattering when it was completely destroyed, at which point they appealed to Lucan D'Lere for sanctuary in Freeport. There is a small faction of Trolls who moved in at Broken Skull Rock when Grobb was captured. They now worship Innoruuk, the god of hate. Before Grobb was captured by the Frogloks, they managed to steal an ancient artifact, a stone etched with the prohecy of Grozmok, a mythilogical figure who will unite the trolls under the combined might of fear and hate.</P> <P>Hope this helps!</P>

Renita_Serafim
04-01-2005, 12:58 AM
<DIV>Oops, double posted, sorry.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:00 PM</span>

Duhulk
04-01-2005, 01:31 AM
The History of Trolls is a rather funny, if entirely inaccurate =p, telling of Troll History. :smileyvery-happy:

troodon311
04-01-2005, 02:05 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astralmage wrote:<BR> <P>OK, here is everything I can find out on Trolls:-</P> <P>The trolls were created by the god of fear, Cazic-Thule, during the second pact of the gods during the Age of Monuments at the same time as the Iksar. However, Cazic abandoned the Trolls pretty fast in favour of the Iksar and they were left to fend for themselves in the southern reaches of Tunaria. At one point, they managed to gather into something resembling an empire, then quickly split into rivalling factions and scattered, regressing into barbaric tribes again, 7 in total. The struggle was known as the War of the Seven Tribes. In the end, only one tribe remained, led by a cunning troll warrior and visionary called Nalikor who quickly decimated the other tribes.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>That's EQ1 beta lore that is no longer valid.</DIV>

Renita_Serafim
04-01-2005, 02:09 AM
It's from the EQ2 Pen & Paper RPG book, so it's Official EQ2 lore.

troodon311
04-01-2005, 02:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> <P></P> <HR> Astralmage wrote:<BR> <P>It's from the EQ2 Pen & Paper RPG book, so it's Official EQ2 lore.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Really?  That's extremely interesting.  Let's see here.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> The trolls were created by the god of fear, Cazic-Thule, during the second pact of the gods during the Age of Monuments at the same time as the Iksar. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok, the Age of Monuments began with the end of the 1st Rallosian War, in which Ogres, Giants, Orcs(?), and those Ankesomethingorrather carved out a Tunarian empire and invaded the Plane of Earth.  However, Ogres as well as the Trolls were made during the second pact of the gods (mentioned above), meaning it could not have happened during the Age of Monuments.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> However, Cazic abandoned the Trolls pretty fast in favour of the Iksar and they were left to fend for themselves in the southern reaches of Tunaria. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Iksar lore seeems to show that Cazic-Thule abandoned the Shissar (which he had just massacred) for the Iksar.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> At one point, they managed to gather into something resembling an empire, then quickly split into rivalling factions and scattered, regressing into barbaric tribes again, 7 in total. The struggle was known as the War of the Seven Tribes. In the end, only one tribe remained, led by a cunning troll warrior and visionary called Nalikor who quickly decimated the other tribes. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Hmm.  Well, since this makes no mention of Trakanon I can't use the timing of the Ring of Scale's exile to falsify it.</P> <P>So all in all I can't disprove that Trolls came from Kunark, but they were certainly made before the Age of Monuments regardless of where they were made.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> About 500 years later <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Woah, that can't be right.  That would mean that Trolls were chilling on Kunark after the time of Rile.</P> <P>Message Edited by troodon311 on <SPAN class=date_text>03-31-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:33 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by troodon311 on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:33 PM</span>

Renita_Serafim
04-01-2005, 04:07 AM
According to the EQ2 pen & paper RPG book, the Age of Monuments started when Innoruuk captured the High Elf monarchs, before the second pact of the gods. Also, the book says nothing about the trolls living on Kunark. It implies that they were created on Tunaria with most of the other races.<p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:09 PM</span>

troodon311
04-01-2005, 06:26 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Astralmage wrote:<BR> <P>According to the EQ2 pen & paper RPG book, the Age of Monuments started when Innoruuk captured the High Elf monarchs</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You're correct that the creation of the Teir'Dal occurs just prior to the second round of creation, however, as seen from the Creation Story that used to be up on the EQ1 website.</P> <P>"Thousands of Ogres were slain and their empire collapsed around them. The Giants were spread from one end of the earth to the other, forced to flee their homes as the gods brought snow and ice to their previously lush lands. And the goblins were also cursed, but no writings remain of their punishment as they no longer keep records of their history (which is perhaps some indication as to the severity of their curse). Thus began the Age of Monuments."</P> <P>The Creation Story is where we get the basic chronology and the names of the ages we throw around, it is correct.</P> <P>It's also kind of silly to think that the 1st Rallosian War occured during the Age of Monuments; I think more things were getting torn down or burned than built :smileyhappy:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> Also, the book says nothing about the trolls living on Kunark. It implies that they were created on Tunaria with most of the other races. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Fair enough.  I assumed it meant they were from Kunark because that's what the Beta story (which is almost exactly like your story) says.<p>Message Edited by troodon311 on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:27 PM</span>

Renita_Serafim
04-01-2005, 11:46 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> troodon311 wrote:<BR> <BR>Fair enough.  I assumed it meant they were from Kunark because that's what the Beta story (which is almost exactly like your story) says. <P>Message Edited by troodon311 on <SPAN class=date_text>03-31-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:27 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Strangly enough, that is what the EQ1 Pen & Paper RPG book suggests:-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>"To most historians in Norrath, it remains unclear whence Trolls orginate, as they hse little interest in history or scholarship. Common theories suggest tah (i) the trolls may have been created by Rallos Zek and then served under him as one of his warrior races (ii) they may be a group of beasts, perhaps related to giants or ogres, who have advanced enough to begin creating the own primative society; (iii) dark elves are responsible for the trollish race (although this is quite possibly self-aggrandizement on the Teir'Dals' part); or even than (iv) the trolls were once a more civilized race than was driven from the continent of Kunark."</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The EQ1 RPG book was one of the things I checked yesterday, but I left this out of my previous post because it seemed to be little more than outdated hearsay in-setting. Almost everyone in modern day Norrath knows who made the Trolls, and Iksar history makes no mention of them. It might be interesting for someone roleplaying a Teir'Dal to try and claim their race <EM>did </EM>make the trolls though in a act of Shissar-like arrogance.</DIV>

Cusashorn
04-01-2005, 11:52 AM
<DIV>Actually, its never 100% absolutely confirmed that Cazic created the Shissar, but they turned thier backs on HIM, not the other way around.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Trolls were never liked by any of the gods. Supposedly, there's some.. "Loose" scraps of information that link the Trolls as being a joint creation between Cazic and Innoruuk, which explains thier noses....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously though, the Trolls have the least amount of lore out of every race. They really don't even have any official motivation of creation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They were.... Failed experiments... Accidents..... The condom broke and they were born...</DIV>

MrD
04-07-2005, 04:20 AM
<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously though, the Trolls have the least amount of lore out of every race. They really don't even have any official motivation of creation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>There is a History of the Trolls and it isn't bad. I haven't finished it yet. Not playing EQ1, its all new to me. But there is a history. </DIV> <DIV>From reading it as far as I have gotten, They seem to have been really tall versions of elves that [Removed for Content] off a god for some reason. For revenge, the god messed them up physically and mentally.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its not like ratonga, where no one knows where they came from, and who are just smart rats. </DIV> <DIV>Or as trolls like to think... a snack. </DIV>

Cusashorn
04-07-2005, 04:42 AM
<DIV>The History of the Trolls is thier creation from *THIER* point of view. More or less a fairy tale.</DIV>

MrD
04-07-2005, 05:18 AM
<DIV>All the histories have some truth in them and some fairy tale. That part of it at least makes some sense. And its better than anything else about the trolls I've seen anywhere. Its much better then just saying they are the ugly mis-begotten children of the gods. </DIV> <DIV>You could pretty much say that about all the races.</DIV>

troodon311
04-07-2005, 05:56 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrDna wrote:<BR> <DIV>And its better than anything else about the trolls I've seen anywhere. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>All the trolls living under a bridge from which they grab and stretch frogs... that sounds reasonable to you?</DIV>

MrD
04-07-2005, 06:14 AM
<DIV>Sure. But that how frogloks were created (from the opinion of a race that <STRONG>hates</STRONG> them)...not how trolls were.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But the question was where do Trolls come from and, like I said, I havent seen anything that expains it better yet. And I did say that there is <EM>some</EM> truth in it. The part before the frogloks is as good as any explaination.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides, that part about how trolls were better looking before they got ugly....why would a race of people who have always been ugly make that part up? They would think they have always looked good not <EM>did</EM> look good.</DIV>

Cusashorn
04-07-2005, 07:03 AM
<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrDna wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sure. But that how frogloks were created (from the opinion of a race that <STRONG>hates</STRONG> them)...not how trolls were.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But the question was where do Trolls come from and, like I said, I havent seen anything that expains it better yet. And I did say that there is <EM>some</EM> truth in it. The part before the frogloks is as good as any explaination.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides, that part about how trolls were better looking before they got ugly....why would a race of people who have always been ugly make that part up? They would think they have always looked good not <EM>did</EM> look good.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder. To be honest, it'd have to take either a REALLY REALLY REALLY smart troll or a REALLY REALLY REALLY Stupid troll (I mean significantly stupid. Barely enough to function his motor skills) to realize that thier race is pretty ugly in comparison to others...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I still blaim it on a broken condom.</DIV>

troodon311
04-07-2005, 08:18 AM
<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MrDna wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sure. But that how frogloks were created (from the opinion of a race that <STRONG>hates</STRONG> them)...not how trolls were.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But the question was where do Trolls come from and, like I said, I havent seen anything that expains it better yet. And I did say that there is <EM>some</EM> truth in it. The part before the frogloks is as good as any explaination.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides, that part about how trolls were better looking before they got ugly....why would a race of people who have always been ugly make that part up? They would think they have always looked good not <EM>did</EM> look good.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <P>The book never says it's the Trolls' version of how they or frogloks were created.  And the Website, as well as EQ1 lore, is clear that they were created by Cazic-Thule.  Cazic-Thule is going to create things that instill <EM>fear</EM> in other races, not cute little things that he then plays a big trick on.  And look at his other races, the Lizardmen and the Iksar.  They are green and ugly, just like Trolls.</P> <P>The first 2 books read like a fairy tale, like how Athena was made out of ocean foam or the three billy goats gruff kicked the crap out of that one troll.  If I remember it correctly (I'm grouped right now and don't have the book on me) there's a part about a Troll marrying a Goblin... Trolls were made during the second round of creation; the same time as the Ogres.  And it was only some time later, after the 1st Rallosian War, that Goblins were created from those Ank-thingies.</P>

Cusashorn
04-07-2005, 08:23 AM
<DIV>Oh no. There's no argument that Cazic Thule never created them. We KNOW he created them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What we don't know is *WHY* he created them and then abandoned them.</DIV>

Taldor
04-11-2005, 03:06 PM
<P>I have read pieces about troll lore, and here are my findings (from eq1 and eq2 so far) in brief:</P> <P>EQ1 Pre-release:</P> <P>- The Trolls were creations of Inoruuk. In a similar fasion to the Dark Elves, the trolls are corrupted from another race, in their case early humans. They were planted on Kunark and were a savage tribal people. In a final great conflict the cheifs fell before a single leader who united the trolls. Hundreds of trolls fell in the battle, their remains and the scars to the land forming what became known as the Field of Bone. Events unfolded that drove the trolls from Kunark to Antonica. They landed on Broken Skull Rock. They set up on the edge of the Feerrott in Innothule Swamp. The mighty Ogres didn't welcome the invaders and the resulting war causes losses on both sides so great that the water of the rivers ran green with the blood (thus the Greenblood River).</P> <P> </P> <P>EQ1 Release:</P> <P>- The trolls were creations of Cazic-Thule, not Innoruuk. They still don't get along with the Ogres (warfare, greenblood river, etc.). They live next door to their nemesis, the noble (although not free of corruption) frogloks who dwell in the ancient city of Guk. The Dark Elves manipulate the trolls and ogres for their own gain, using them for their unsurpassed strength and agressive nature.</P> <P> </P> <P>EQ1 Ykesha:</P> <P>- Cazic-Thule captures Mithaniel Marr as part of evil plan. Erollsi hears about her brother's problem (or maybe was other way around... anyway moving on). God goes and evolves the Frogloks into the backflipping casters we all loved, frogs go and free the other sibling, and then move on to take over Grobb and rename it Gukta. Broken Skull clan of smarter then average Inoruuk loving trolls comes to light. The story of the Grozmok enters the scene. Trolls, homeless, move into Neriak (the forein quarter where a number of trolls and ogres already lived).</P> <P> </P> <P>EQ2:</P> <P>- Neriak is no more, and Inothule Swamp was fried by the moon explosion, then ripped apart in the rending, and finally washed away into the wild seas. The Trolls live in Big Bend with the Ogres, neither faction like each other, they have never liked each other, in fact they openly hate each other and fight with each other. Instead of the Dark Elves using these races for muscle, the reins have been passed to the overlord. Being kept together is probably a way for other races to not have to worry about them too much. The trolls and ogres are too busy fighting in Big Bend for either group to make a move against anyone else.</P> <P> </P> <P>I don't recall anywhere in the games it mentioning that Cazic-Thule abandoned them, no more then Tunare abandoned the elves, or Inny abandoned the Tier'Dal.... Barbarians sorta turned their back to the Marr twins, and humans evolved from barbarians and pretty much follow whoever they want to follow. In EQ2 of course the gods all left and that is why the world went to hell, but there are signs they are comming back, or perhaps are back even now to some extent.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If anyone got lost, or just likes lists, here is a breakdown of the races in EQ1 and their creators from as far as I can remember (some of these races seem to have totally vanished in eq2)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1: Trolls, Iksar, Lizardmen = Cazic-Thule</DIV> <DIV>2: Ogres, Giants, Orcs, Goblins, Kolbolds = Rallos Zek</DIV> <DIV>3: Dwarves, Gnomes, Gnolls = Brell Serilis</DIV> <DIV>4: Frogloks, Barbarians = The Marr Twins</DIV> <DIV>5: Elves = Tunare</DIV> <DIV>6: Dragons (including drakes and drakota) = Veeshan</DIV> <DIV>7: Dark Elves = Innoruuk</DIV> <DIV>8: Erudites evolved from Humans, Humans evolved from Barbarians</DIV> <DIV>9: Halflings = Bristlebane Fizzlethorpe</DIV> <DIV>10: Kedge (only 1 left in EQ1) = Prexus</DIV> <DIV>11: Kerrans, Sshisar = Unknown</DIV> <DIV>12: Sarnak = Iksar</DIV>

Hirebra
04-19-2005, 12:51 AM
<P><FONT face=Century>In the Elder Age the trolls followed one god: Cazic Thule, their creator. They grew and evolved under his guidance, and the blood of Fear beat strong through their hearts. The unity of the trolls was broken when Innoruuk, the Prince of Hate, touched a young troll mystic named Zraxth.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>Zraxth's deviation from the followers of Cazic Thule was small at first. He would gather small groups of other mystics in secluded camps far away from the troll cities. There they would perform ceremonies to channel their hatred, and through it give power to the trolls who were being oppressed by the dominant forces of the Rallosian armies. Hatred drove the trolls, making them more bloodthirsty and savage, but their might was still not enough to confront the will of the Ogre Empire that dominated Southern Tunaria. Zraxth saw that his efforts were futile, and asked his new lord, Innoruuk, when the trolls would see the power they were promised. The knowledge he sought came with a price; Innoruuk demanded a blood tithe in exchange for a vision. Zraxth was instructed to slay the high priests of Cazic Thule so their blood could be used to grant him foresight.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>Zraxth and his followers did as the Prince of Hate demanded. Cloaked by the night, he and his disciples crept into the camps of their brethren and killed every elder priest to yield the blood to be used in the rite. The blood of their kin on their hands, Zraxth and his disciples set about performing the rituals described in Innoruuk's instructions. A great stone tablet was brought before Zraxth, and the ceremony began. Zraxth meditated for days without sleep or food, trying to transcend his mortal mind and see what Innoruuk had promised him.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>On the eighth day, Zraxth spoke. The disciples tried in vain to record his words but found that no ink would hold them; the words ran like quicksilver off their parchments.. Zraxth, still in a deep trance, took the stone and began to record his words with the elder's blood and a chisel made from their bones. As he laid each symbol into the stone, it blazed with dark flames and then settled. As the stone cooled, the disciples saw that the words appeared as though they had always been a part of the stone, rather than carved and painted into it.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>Zraxth's visions foretold the coming of the Grozmok. The Grozmok would be the greatest of all trolls and would unite the troll clans through Fear and Hate. Through his knowledge of war and magic he would topple the empires in Tunaria. The stone would be the symbol of his power. No true Grozmok would rise without the stone, but many false Grozmoks would die because of it. This was the prophecy, the curse and the legacy of Grozmok.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>The ceremony killed Zraxth. His body was burned, and his ashes were scattered. His disciples returned to their tribes, each assuming their old positions among the mystics, teaching their people of the prophecy of Grozmok. Zraxth's first disciple was given the stone, as his tribe was the strongest and most likely to give rise to the Grozmok. They protected the stone and its secrets for many generations, until whispers of the prophecy spread to the Rallosian Empire.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>The ogres did not fear the trolls; however, they did fear the power that the stone might grant them. To stifle any hope that the stone may have provided, they raided the home of the tribe that held the stone. After slaughtering all who lived there, they returned the stone to their vaults, attempting to end the prophecy and any power that may have been drawn from it.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>The stone remained in the fortified strongholds of the Ogre Empire until the curse of the Pantheon struck the minions of Zek down for their hubris. The fall of the empire created a void of power in Southern Tunaria. The two largest troll factions, Clan Broken Skull and Clan Ykesha, began to battle for rule over the once conquered lands. As their war raged, knowledge of the stone faded from the trolls' minds. It lay forgotten, until marauders from Clan Ykesha found the stone hidden in the vaults of a decimated ogre fortress. The lore and memory of the stone's true meaning had been long lost to the trolls; still they recognized the stone as an artifact from their ancient history, and presented it as a tribute to their clan leader, Warlord Ykesha.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>The ancients of Clan Ykesha eventually managed to translate the writing on the stone; this revealed the lost prophecy of the Grozmok to them. Warlord Ykesha took his capturing of the stone to mean that he was destined to be the Grozmok. Rumors of the stone spread throughout the Clans. Meanwhile, the power of Clan Ykesha grew as other tribes joined them to fight for the Grozmok.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>Innoruuk, seeing the hate among his children fade as more and more joined Ykesha, planted seeds of doubt in the Warlord's mind. Ykesha grew reclusive, moving deep within his compound to protect himself from attempts to usurp his power. This growing insanity weakened him. As dissention grew within Clan Ykesha, other clans grew bold and struck the might of the Ykesha. It was Clan Broken Skull that managed to finally overthrow Ykesha and lay claim to the stone.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>The remnants of the Ykeshan clan regrouped slowly, rising under the might of Warlord Jurgash, and formed Clan Grobb. The new clan grew under the direction of Ykesha's descendent, while the stone remained hidden on Broken Skull Rock. Innoruuk, again seeing the hate among the trolls settling, granted one of Grobb's mystics a vision that revealed the location of the Grozmok stone. Clan Grobb invaded Broken Skull Rock and recovered the stone. The victorious clan returned the stone to Southern Tunaria.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Century>Today, the Grozmok stone rests hidden and well protected deep within Grobb. Knowledge of the stone and the prophecy it contains has once again begun to fade as new generations pursue their own dreams of power. The young consider the old stories of the stone and the first great warlord, who rests in his fortress now swallowed by the swamp, to be campfire myths. Yet, many of the clan elders wait with the hopes that one day the Grozmok will rise from their ranks and fulfill the legacy of Ykesha.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=5><A href="http://everquest.station.sony.com/legacy/lore.jsp?ch=1" target=_blank>More</A></FONT></DIV>

Kryussius
04-19-2005, 01:16 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Supposedly, there's some.. "Loose" scraps of information that link the Trolls as being a joint creation between Cazic and Innoruuk, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think that was proposed due to the name of their chosen home -- Innothule Swamp.<BR>

Cusashorn
04-19-2005, 05:59 AM
<DIV>Yes, that is the biggest scrap of information, as well as the fact that troll warriors and shaman could follow Innoruuk if they wanted to. But really there wasn't all that much behind it.</DIV>

Taldor
04-19-2005, 04:03 PM
What <SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Hirebrand</FONT></SPAN> posted was a direct copy and paste of the lore released with the Legacy of Ykesha expansion for EQ1. It was a pretty good story overall and from what I remember in EQ1 at the time I have reason to believe that Guk was in fact that lost stronghold of old, but I'm not certain as the frogloks obviously lived there a very long time before they evolved and claimed Grobb, renaming it Gukta.<BR>

Cusashorn
04-19-2005, 07:46 PM
<DIV>Oh I assure you, the evidence is there that Guk used to be the original city of the Trolls. They got kicked out by the frogloks... And then kicked out by the Frogloks again from Grobb.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Trolls Hyroglyphs and paintings prove that.</DIV>

Taldor
04-20-2005, 10:48 AM
I don't think the trolls were kicked out of Guk, I think it was abandoned. Grobb they were kicked out of, but remember to do so the frogloks were evolved. The original frogloks weren't advanced or powerful enough to stand a chance against the trolls. Basically they had the backing of a god and took the trolls by surprise, otherwise the trolls would have never lost Grobb.

Cusashorn
04-20-2005, 07:24 PM
<DIV>Ehh. It was never explained just how or why the trolls moved out of Guk and into Grobb. Being forced out by savage frogloks seems to be the most likely story though.</DIV>

Taldor
04-21-2005, 04:07 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR> <DIV>Ykesha grew reclusive, moving deep within his compound to protect himself from attempts to usurp his power. This growing insanity weakened him. As dissention grew within Clan Ykesha, other clans grew bold and struck the might of the Ykesha. It was Clan Broken Skull that managed to finally overthrow Ykesha and lay claim to the stone. <P><FONT face=Century>The remnants of the Ykeshan clan regrouped slowly, rising under the might of Warlord Jurgash, and formed Clan Grobb. </FONT></P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think that Guk may have been the stronghold of Ykesha for a few different reasons. Simply put though, after the fall of his clan, the compound was was abandoned and eventually swallowed by the swamp. Clan Grobb moved on, eventually building the city that beared their name.</P>

Andn
04-21-2005, 10:19 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taldor wrote:<BR> <P>10: Kedge (only 1 left in EQ1) = Prexus</P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>what the heck was a "kedge"?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>that giant seahorsies?</DIV>

Cusashorn
04-22-2005, 12:50 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Andnay wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taldor wrote:<BR> <P>10: Kedge (only 1 left in EQ1) = Prexus</P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>what the heck was a "kedge"?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>that giant seahorsies?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><A href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=1852" target=_blank>Phinigel Autropos, the last Kedge in existance.</A></DIV>

Taldor
04-22-2005, 12:55 PM
Phinigel, last of the Kedge and lord of Kedge Keep. It was an underwater zone in EQ1. I kinda hope they do Guk in the same way considering Innothule seems to be underwater now.

steelsca
04-23-2005, 11:03 AM
<DIV>the reason trolls have so little hisory is im fairly sure they don't have a form of righting, and the only reason i can think of why trolls would leave guk is for food.</DIV> <DIV>i don't think cazic abandoned trolls for iksars (though i couldn't blame him) or else there wouldve been much less followers. there where someother point i was going to make but im tired ill edit this post tomarrow, mabe.</DIV>

Taldor
04-23-2005, 03:54 PM
<DIV>Trolls have a form of writing, but I'm sure much of the race is illiterate and most of the tradition is likely passed down orally through stories rather then written records. This causes problems with accuracy and records being lost, especially in times of war when some story tellers may not have a chance to pass on their stories before they become casualties.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Troll shamen and shadow knights in EQ1 could call on either Innoruuk or Cazic-Thule for power, Cazic being the preferred choice, so I don't think he ever really left them. However in EQ2 all the gods have apparently left, or at least retracted their power for a time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Trolls have always been an intimidating presence in Norrath and a cause for fear in many lesser creatures. Cazic likes it when his creations can stare others down and make them flee in terror, he's the god of frear afterall. I highly doubt he would up and abandon one of his people for no good reason.</DIV>

steelsca
04-23-2005, 08:24 PM
<DIV>another point i was going to make last night was, (although i forget where i read it) trolls are even ugly to themselves, so there not dillusional like ogres and think they are good looking. I sort of feel sorry for trolls, they have to reproduce with each other, even though most find each other ugly... now thats scary! on a side note anyone else notice the better grafics trolls get they slowly get skinnier?</DIV>

Taldor
04-25-2005, 06:51 PM
<P>Its funny but true. Its one of the oldest sayings in EQ that the only thing uglier then a troll, is a troll female. The females of the species being so ugly even the troll males won't touch em, lol</P> <P>If this is true (and as was said, trolls DO realise they are ugly) then perhaps the reason they are changing somewhat could be new blood comming in? Non-trollish blood? If a male troll mates with a female... lets say human... and a half troll is born, do you think perhaps the half troll is so ugly and deformed from the troll blood they are just called full trolls?</P> <DIV>As for the argument that they wouldn't see themselves as ugly... well lets face it, trolls aren't as egotistical as Ogres, and everyone - EVERYONE - has told them since day 1 that they are hideous. Lets look at a similar situation in real life. A person who is perhaps 3 pounds overweight, and doesn't have the mentality that makes them tell themselves "I'm perfect, I'm wonderful, I'm sooooo much better then everyone else" (ogres) is told by a group of people, a large group, that they are fat. The first few times, the person might ignore it, but eventually this can wear down the person until a time comes that everytime they see themselves they think "god I'm fat, I need to lose weight, what am I doing eating?!" and they get an eating disorder (highschool rocks doesn't it?).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now we go back to the Trolls... everyone tells them they are ugly, and they never really had the "I'm perfect and you suck" mentality that the Rallosian army (ogres) had. What happens? They look at themselves and say "holy c--p I'm fugly!!" Now instead of an eating disorder or platic surguery, what do they do? My guess is bash stuff into pulp. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

Zrinja
04-25-2005, 09:06 PM
<DIV>I ran across some info in other forums you might find interesting...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This thread talks about the map in the pen and paper EQ2 RPG and zones we don't currently have:</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=futexp&message.id=3370" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=futexp&message.id=3370</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Farther down there is a link to the Official Prima Guide lore (<A href="http://eq2.primagames.com/troll.html" target=_blank>http://eq2.primagames.com/troll.html</A>)which indicates that The Moors of Ykesha is Innothule Swamp.  Perhaps we will see Grobb and Guk again in the future?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also unrelated to trolls, but relating to race origins is this thread (<A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=futexp&message.id=2646" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=futexp&message.id=2646</A>) which cites background info about the origin of the Ratonga saying that they were created by Brell.  If that's valid info, then I guess the only playable race we don't know the origin of would be the Kerra.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~ Cyndell</DIV> <DIV>Grobb ~</DIV>

Taldor
04-27-2005, 01:47 AM
<P>It's true, the Kerra have never worshipped any of the gods, as a Kerra in EQ1 a player could only be Agnostic. Their racial history book in game tells of the Kerra creation mith... how their race was formed from rocks carved by the winds that swept off the ocean and down the mountain where later the Erudites would build their city.</P>