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View Full Version : Are orcs still cursed??


Wopper Withchee
02-08-2005, 09:38 AM
<DIV>I know orcs were cursed in eq1, but I'm not sure if they are still dumb or not. Supposedly the curse was lifted, and that would explain some things, but I'm still unsure. I found a book/quest in Zek that was written by an orc foreman. Reading his book, it looked like it was written by an eq1 orc, the writing was childish and horrible. Why would intelligent orcs have a foreman like that? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone have any more information on this?</DIV>

Kamimura
02-08-2005, 11:51 AM
<DIV>Was the note written in common? It might be that the orc wasnt too familiar with common.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Though, I have heard some ogres talking like simple idiots as well. It has been said before that not every ogre/orc had their curse lifted. Some like Urduuk's wife Karna, and the Cheif in Oggok from the tome of destiny. They did not seem to have their curse lifted, while others did. </DIV>

Wopper Withchee
02-08-2005, 11:59 AM
<DIV>I think that's because the curse was just starting to lift, and not everyone was effected by it yet. Even if you're unfamiliar with common you wouldn't write like this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Me the biggest foreman on making the big bridge. Me tell every other orc what to do. If they don't, I throw them into the water and kick them in the head if they try to get out."</DIV>

troodon311
02-08-2005, 02:57 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wopper Withcheese wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think that's because the curse was just starting to lift, and not everyone was effected by it yet. Even if you're unfamiliar with common you wouldn't write like this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Me the biggest foreman on making the big bridge. Me tell every other orc what to do. If they don't, I throw them into the water and kick them in the head if they try to get out."</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You sure?  I go to college with people who don't speak English that well, and they don't seem cursed to me :smileyhappy:

iceriven2
02-08-2005, 05:41 PM
The curse was liftedSo what should we be seeing: Orcs and orge's as well as giant being at the very least smart if not more warlike.What we do see: Some of that to a degree, but nothin like they were described in the first Rollisan War.Reason 1: DEV's didn't put to much though into whole story they created for EQ2 or it somehow slipped through the cracks that all those races should be smart and they made them along there eq1 ancestors.Reason2: Or this is part of the whole story. Maybe the curse went deeper then everyone thought. Some of the poeple from each race were smart, but there is a ligering effect on most of those races. Reason 2 even if from a production standpoint(which makes reason one more likely but,... u never know...) a good "lore" explanation, there is still a lot of questions. We know the ogre's after the Gods left became Smart and went back to trying to conquer the world. once again they almost do, but was it just luck where the greenmist killed all the smart ones and the General sent the "not" so smart ones after the Frogloks. Its possible. But what about the Giants and orc. Well the orc we know are somewhat smarter. All of zek which was i think jaggidpine forest is now all theres and from some guard npc they say there smarter and more ruthless. But... then why do the talk and write like there 5 years old. Doesn't make much sence. Only thing i can think of from a "lore" standpoint is that even at the time of the first Rollisan War there was only a handful of orcs smart enough to do anything while the rest were good followers to there leader and were just as ruthless with there orders. OK thats explained away somewhat, but once again what about the giants. They were cursed to. We know in eq1 the giants from velious(spelling) are pretty darn smart. The reason they didn't loose there intelligence was b/c of the magic around that continent. So.. then why are all the giants in the shattering lands still wearing loin clothe and sing fe fi fo fum..... if u get giant language they are not the smartest things. Can't think of any reason on why besides what i stated above where only a hand full were ever smart enough to do anything, but unlike the orcs or orges i have yet to hear of a smart giant in Thundering Steppe maybe some else knows. And to clear up any questions someone might have with the goblins, the goblins are the by product of the curse. What do i mean. there was a race much like the goblins we see and kill today that were extremely smart in the magics. There the once that helped the ogre get to the planes. There curse was there race being completely destroyed. From the ashes of that race (srry i vaguely remember there name starts with an "A" i believe) the Goblins were born. So they will always be stupid.

BLOODka
02-08-2005, 07:25 PM
<DIV>The curse on the goblins hasnt been lifted, although I dont think they were cursed, it just said the goblin's fate was so horrible it cannot be mentioned. Makes me wonder what Goblins were like before then.</DIV>

Kamimura
02-08-2005, 09:50 PM
<DIV>The goblins were called Ankexfen I think. In the EQL quest the visiting priestess, she will tell you about them. They were creates by Rallos Zek in the elder age. They were smart and cunning. They were powerful at magic and traveled the plains, but always wanted more. They joined up with the others to take over the plane of Earth, but were stoped by the Gods. Thousands of ogres were killed. Giants were seperated from eachother. The entire Ankexfen race was desroyed. However, from their remains the four goblin tribes were born. All the races were stripped of knowledge, and the Ankexfen tribes were not told about the other tribes. They were sent to different envrionments (fire goblins in Solusek Eye, frost goblins in Permafrost, 'regular' goblins were mostly in runnyeye, and aqua goblins in the water), and the Gods gave them each a peice of the staff of Ankexfen so they could understand and survive in their envrionments. The lady tells you she wants the peices of the staff to combine them again, and you have to go get them for her.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kamimura on <span class=date_text>02-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:58 AM</span>

Trell
02-08-2005, 09:59 PM
One thing that we aren't taking into consideration is that intelligence most likely does not manifest itself in the same manner in an orc society than in human/elf/etc society. Even if an orc has greater cognitive capacity, he would not necessarily devote that to language or what have you. While certain extraordinary members may decide to express themselves more fluently, the average orc is concerned only with one object: conquest. So, while they may talk like children, that does not necessarily mean they are unintelligent. They are more likely to focus their abilities on war, which seems to be the case given the large territory they have claimed. Their simple speech in that case would simply be a reflection of their priorities: As long as the point gets across, that's all that matters.Just my 2cp =)

Aion
02-08-2005, 10:36 PM
<blockquote><hr>Trellan wrote:One thing that we aren't taking into consideration is that intelligence most likely does not manifest itself in the same manner in an orc society than in human/elf/etc society. Even if an orc has greater cognitive capacity, he would not necessarily devote that to language or what have you. While certain extraordinary members may decide to express themselves more fluently, the average orc is concerned only with one object: conquest. So, while they may talk like children, that does not necessarily mean they are unintelligent. They are more likely to focus their abilities on war, which seems to be the case given the large territory they have claimed. Their simple speech in that case would simply be a reflection of their priorities: As long as the point gets across, that's all that matters.Just my 2cp =)<hr></blockquote>Agreed, but to further your point, there is a difference between intellegence and knowledge. He may be intellegent, but never taught proper grammar and vocabulary. You see it all the time in RL in lower income communities and ethnic communities in North America. You have very intellegent people there who have never been taught how to use their intellegence.This can now be likened to the story of Urduuk in the Tome of Lore... he had the curse lifted, and he KNEW there was more but had no idea what to do... the appearance of the Avatar taught him what to do -- put the pieces in place, so to speak -- as he was now intellegent enough to grasp the greater concepts of war and siege. I don't think he stopped to study Common grammar. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

BLOODka
02-08-2005, 11:03 PM
<DIV>It was my understanding that the goblins were creations of Brell along with Dwarves, Gnomes and Gnolls...I know that Dwarves, Gnomes, and Gnolls are Brell creations but the goblins I am more inclined to think of Rallos creations.</DIV>

Espyderman
02-09-2005, 10:17 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> iceriven2 wrote:<BR>The curse was lifted<BR>So what should we be seeing: Orcs and orge's as well as giant being at the very least smart if not more warlike.<BR>What we do see: Some of that to a degree, but nothin like they were described in the first Rollisan War.<BR>Reason 1: DEV's didn't put to much though into whole story they created for EQ2 or it somehow slipped through the cracks that all those races should be smart and they made them along there eq1 ancestors.<BR>Reason2: Or this is part of the whole story. Maybe the curse went deeper then everyone thought. Some of the poeple from each race were smart, but there is a ligering effect on most of those races. <BR><BR>Reason 2 even if from a production standpoint(which makes reason one more likely but,... u never know...) a good "lore" explanation, there is still a lot of questions. We know the ogre's after the Gods left became Smart and went back to trying to conquer the world. once again they almost do, but was it just luck where the greenmist killed all the smart ones and the General sent the "not" so smart ones after the Frogloks. Its possible. But what about the Giants and orc. Well the orc we know are somewhat smarter. All of zek which was i think jaggidpine forest is now all theres and from some guard npc they say there smarter and more ruthless. But... then why do the talk and write like there 5 years old. Doesn't make much sence. Only thing i can think of from a "lore" standpoint is that even at the time of the first Rollisan War there was only a handful of orcs smart enough to do anything while the rest were good followers to there leader and were just as ruthless with there orders. OK thats explained away somewhat, but once again what about the giants. They were cursed to. We know in eq1 the giants from velious(spelling) are pretty darn smart. The reason they didn't loose there intelligence was b/c of the magic around that continent. So.. then why are all the giants in the shattering lands still wearing loin clothe and sing fe fi fo fum..... if u get giant language they are not the smartest things. Can't think of any reason on why besides what i stated above where only a hand full were ever smart enough to do anything, but unlike the orcs or orges i have yet to hear of a smart giant in Thundering Steppe maybe some else knows. And to clear up any questions someone might have with the goblins, the goblins are the by product of the curse. What do i mean. there was a race much like the goblins we see and kill today that were extremely smart in the magics. There the once that helped the ogre get to the planes. There curse was there race being completely destroyed. From the ashes of that race (srry i vaguely remember there name starts with an "A" i believe) the Goblins were born. So they will always be stupid.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>After 500 years of being stupid, its hard to come back as geniuses, it will take time. Saying they got smarter is so trivial, maybe they were too dumb to add 2 + 2, but now smart enough to add it together but are still trying to learn the higher additions. It makes sense to say they were dumb for 500 years and now they have a curse lifted to make them smarter, but the curse being lifted doesnt gift them with smarts so therefore them still being stupid is a byproduct of the curse.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pretty simple to me, and logical and still fits with the lore and actually makes RL sense.</DIV>