PDA

View Full Version : EQ II lore is it lacking cohesion or am I missing something?


Locutu
01-22-2005, 02:17 AM
<DIV>Personally, I would like a nice cohesive, descriptive, unified and **offical** timeline to fill in the gaps between EQI and EQII. I believe Sony has mentioned there is a version of their history within the game but I've yet to find it.  When I moved over from EQI I was expecting to be able to quest for, or otherwise discover what had happened over the last 500 years.  I've got a char in the mid 20's and I've found nothing to even get me started.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I signed up for EQI for discovery and divesity.  However, one of the thigns I looked at was how tight and imaginitive the story line was.  Thus far, in EQ II I have found no real accout of what took us from "there" to "here" other then the Tome Of Destiny.  The tome, in my opinion is a highly detatched ambigious work of prose that does not do the game lore justice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, Everquest II is a game about adventure and questing. Yes, you make your own destiny in the game....but everyone needs a frame of reference at which to start.  I believe we need to have an understanding of the world in order to build a relationship with it.  As I play through now, I do not get the feeling that the various quests within the game have any true meaning or relavence.  Finishing a quest in EQII is does not have the same feel to it as say, getting a flag in one of the Planes from EQI.  I think part of this has to do with the fact that without lore, there is no meaning.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Grunar
01-22-2005, 05:49 AM
<DIV>Try going to the mage guilds, and get the History of <Insert Race>   Those fill in the timelines a bit of what happened to each particular race, although it may be skewed toward each particular race to make them look better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are several NPCs that you can talk to also that will tell stories.  There is a guy in Beggar's court that talks about when the Ratonga arrived.</DIV>

Kamimura
01-22-2005, 08:12 AM
<DIV>Yep, there are various NPCs around the lands who tell you parts of the lore. It's up to you to put it all together, which isnt too hard. Also, there are books in the mage guild that tell you history for races, and locations. There are also other quests through the game which give info of history on places. Each race tells it a little differently (a wood elf and a dark elf would have different versions of the war on Faydark for example), but to me that only makes it more realistic.</DIV>

Police9
01-22-2005, 10:13 AM
<DIV>I think a lot of the gaps in the timeline will be filled in with adventure packs. </DIV>

Taeda
01-24-2005, 07:05 PM
<DIV>all i wanna know is if we are ever gonna find out what happened on luclin after it was closed off but before it  exploded. there was alot of time between those two period like years i think.</DIV>

Kamimura
01-25-2005, 12:29 AM
<DIV>A few hundred years, probably..</DIV>

Grunar
01-25-2005, 04:34 AM
<DIV>Isn't Luclin exploding "The Shattering"  And wasn't that only like 12 or so years ago? (12 years from the time the game went live that is)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There's no way in the plane of nightmares that my iksar is going to volunteer to be one of the first to explore an exploded moon.  He would have to spend years in front of a gnomish telescope watching people teleport safely onto the moon before he even considered it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: Plane of Nightmare, not Plain</DIV><p>Message Edited by Grunarch on <span class=date_text>01-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:04 PM</span>

Kamimura
01-25-2005, 05:08 AM
<DIV>The explosion of Luclin is called the shattering, and yes it was only 10-15 years before the game starts. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, Norrath was cut off from Luclin for a very long time before that explosion happened. In the time of EQL (some 500 years ago from EQ2) people were traveling to and from Luclin using the spires and Plane of Knowledge. However, say, 400 years ago (a guess, really) the spires were shut down and access to the plains was stoped. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, for those few hundred years no one could go to Luclin or even see it in the sky due to the veils the goddess Luclin put in place (which left when the moon exploded). No one really knows why the moon exploded, or what was going on up there that entire time. I dont think anyone will be going up there for a very long time, if ever. It doesnt look like it can support life anymore, and there is still much much exploring to be done on Norrath.</DIV>

Grunar
01-25-2005, 06:07 AM
<DIV>Thought...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a goddess can conceal an entire moon, I don't see why another (or multiple) gods couldn't create an illusion that the moon exploded and just leave the illusion of an exploded moon in the sky.  Where Luclin is still there as it always was behind the illusion...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm still not going up ther though!</DIV>

Aion
01-25-2005, 07:56 PM
<DIV>You really need to pay attention to everything that the NPCs say. They all say at least a little on the locality, history or their peoples. I have found that late 20s early 30s a lote of new lore opens up in terms of quest books that drop off mobs (got History of the Runnyeye Golbins part 3 last night, and I have History of the Orcs -- The Deadtime from Zek) or that were not available to be picked up until Post 30 in various city locations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I got about 6 books quests from the Nektulous Library (Fauna of the Enchanted Lands A-k and L-Z to name 2). There really is LOTS out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Daeanor
01-28-2005, 02:44 AM
<DIV>There was a whole series of catastrophies and epic wars in the 500 years from EQ1 time and EQ2 time, and the Shattering was only the last of them. The whole point is that civilization was fragmented, ancient knowledge lost, etc. The lore is <EM>supposed </EM>to lack some cohesion to reflect all that. I agree, however, that they will fill in gaps with expansions and Adventure packs.</DIV>

Grognar
01-28-2005, 04:03 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grunarch wrote:<BR> <DIV>Thought...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a goddess can conceal an entire moon, I don't see why another (or multiple) gods couldn't create an illusion that the moon exploded and just leave the illusion of an exploded moon in the sky.  Where Luclin is still there as it always was behind the illusion...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm still not going up ther though!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If that were to have happened; giant chucks of rock would also have to have been sent flying to the world and the big flash of light that blinded people watching would have to have been created. Really, it just seems simpilar to blow the darn thing up.</FONT></DIV>

Kamimura
01-28-2005, 04:37 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grognard3 wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>If that were to have happened; giant chucks of rock would also have to have been sent flying to the world and the big flash of light that blinded people watching would have to have been created. Really, it just seems simpilar to blow the darn thing up.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Cmon, thats easy work for a deity. I can see it now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ro "Hey Zek man, im bored since we had to get quiet and all."</DIV> <DIV>Rallos "Me too Solusek."</DIV> <DIV>Ro "Wanna kill some innocents?"</DIV> <DIV>Rallos "Well..did we just do that a little while ago? Oh well, lets have at it again."</DIV> <DIV>*BOOM*</DIV> <DIV>Ro "Hehe, that was awesome and a half."</DIV> <DIV>Rallos "Look at them run."</DIV> <DIV>Ro "Look at them burn!"</DIV> <DIV>Rallos "Wheeee"</DIV> <DIV>Rallos "Lets go paint on Luclin's veil."</DIV> <DIV>Ro "Oh she'll rage if she sees it!"</DIV> <DIV>Rallos "I know.. it'll be awesome."</DIV> <DIV>Ro "Totally awesome."</DIV> <DIV>And off they go to paint a broken moon on the veil. :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess the only reason why they'd want to fake Luclin being blown up is because the Goddess Luclin wouldnt want her home and work destroyed. I always thought tho that maybe she was too weak to protest it, or it was an accident or sorts. I like to blame it on Solusek and Rallos, cause they're my fave trouble making team. It is possable that for one reason or another Luclin destroyed it herself.  </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Kamimura on <span class=date_text>01-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:39 PM</span>

Raszc
01-28-2005, 08:04 PM
<DIV>If I may, I'd like to raise my voice in support of the original request made by Locutuas.  It would be very gracious of SOE to make an official chronology of sorts to the players.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The way I see it, firstly, it's a courtesy to the players -- especially the RPers, many of whom make very, very sincere efforts to create rich character backgrounds that relate to the world.  It's difficult to do this when you, as the creator of a character, don't really *know* the world's history.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Secondly, it's also just kind of foolish, it seems, to have this information hidden.  Five hundred years, when you think about it, isn't a very long period of time.  On real-time Earth, 500 years only goes back to the 1500's -- the height of the Renaissance.  To tell EQ2 players, "What happened five hundred years ago is no longer common knowledge.  Only in-game Loremaster NPCs have this information," seems unrealistic.  It would be as if we on Earth had generally forgotten about da Vinci, Christopher Columbus, Bach, the American Revolution, etc., and that only the very wise knew of these bits of information.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In fact, this is an even *more* ridiculous suggestion when you consider that real-life humans can easily trace major events for 500 years (and a lot further), even though real-life humans have life spans of only 80 years (and that's being very, very generous).  Norrathian *Elves*, however, reportedly live 350 years, on average, with a reported maximum age of 700.  That would suggest that many Norrathian characters would have direct or near-direct knowledge of these events.  Some present-day elves would have been born in EQ1 times; several present-day elves would have (now-deceased) fathers who were EQ1 contemporaries; *many* present-day elves would have grand-parents who were EQ1 contemporaries.  To suggest that knowledge gets *globally* lost in a *maximum* of two generations, and that only the loremasters know this information just seems silly</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once again, I wholeheartedly support Locutuas's request for official history information (including dates, ideally).  It's a courtesy to the players who invest a lot of time trying to create characters with realistic backgrounds, and it's simply illogical to suggest that this information wouldn't be common knowledge in Norrath.</DIV>

Glyceryn
01-29-2005, 12:24 AM
<DIV>There are NPCs around the world that hold bits and pieces of the lore of their world. This is very similar to our own world. Take the Bible for instance, it is an historical account with more holes in it then a pair of fishnet stockings. Im not bad mouthing it just pointing out that it is incomplete. American history is incomplete, in general this worlds history is bogged down with incomplete accounts and speculation as to what may have happened and what actually happened. Also history would be scewed based of the person who wrote the history, Im sure the Brittish have a completely different story as to what happened in the 1700s then we do. What is correct is based of the perspective of the person writting it. In EQII this is no different, I am sure the devs had a clue as to what they were doing, and maybe it being incomplete is by design.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Demascus 17 Crusader / 13 Outfitter - Faydark</DIV>

troodon311
01-29-2005, 04:24 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raszcal wrote:<BR> <DIV>Secondly, it's also just kind of foolish, it seems, to have this information hidden.  Five hundred years, when you think about it, isn't a very long period of time.  On real-time Earth, 500 years only goes back to the 1500's -- the height of the Renaissance.  To tell EQ2 players, "What happened five hundred years ago is no longer common knowledge.  Only in-game Loremaster NPCs have this information," seems unrealistic.  It would be as if we on Earth had generally forgotten about da Vinci, Christopher Columbus, Bach, the American Revolution, etc., and that only the very wise knew of these bits of information.  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That's not a suitable comparison.  We live in an advanced society with public and higher education.  How about this, go back to the 13th century and see how many people knew what had gone on 500 years before.</P>

Raszc
01-31-2005, 05:07 PM
<DIV>Admittedly, Troodon, the "Renaissance" argument is a little weak: you're right, to a degree -- the common public in the 13th century probably weren't aware of the exact events that happened in the 8th century.  However, I would counter-suggest that Norrath isn't comparable to 13th century Europe, either.  Many Norrathian characters aren't "common serfs" -- on the countrary, many of them (esp. High and Dark Elves) play high-born characters that are particularly interested in traditions -- as were Earthly nobility.  It seems strange to me that such a Teir'Dal would be able to trace back his family to his great-great-great-great grandfather, and yet be unable to put a rough date to the Teir'Dal invasion of the Faydark.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Furthermore, what about the Parent argument?  My character's father would have been a child during the sack of Felwithe.  In other words, this is experiential knowledge to Nihthin's father; and it's potentially first-hand information to Nihthin himself.  Why is it so unreasonable to assume that my character's father would have told his son about the destruction of Felwithe, and when, roughly, it happened?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(And yes.  I'm aware that there are, even on Earth, individuals who prefer not to talk about traumatic events -- like WWII veterans.  But people here are suggesting *global* amnesia.  Absolutely *all* of Nihthin's relatives and acquaintances would have had to have agreed to a pact to hide this information from the younger generation.  While I suppose this is *possible*, it somehow strikes me as unlikely.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, bear in mind that we're not talking about, "Did it start on July 6th, or July 7th?"  We're talking about, "Was that 3210, or 3220?"  Certainly, *some* uncertainty would have crept into the history.  Nihthin's father might not be able to remember if he was 20 or 25 at the time; but I find it hard to believe that he would have forgotten whether he was 20 or 200.</DIV>

Kamimura
01-31-2005, 06:10 PM
<DIV>War of the Fay was probably about 450-400 years ago. Dark Elves might not be talking about it cause they're sad they lost and came back to Neriak gone, however there are elves in Qeynos who drop hints about it all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Saying it might have lasted that long, not that it started sometime in those 50 years.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kamimura on <span class=date_text>01-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:11 AM</span>

troodon311
02-01-2005, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> <P>Raszcal wrote:<BR></P> <P>Many Norrathian characters aren't "common serfs" -- on the countrary, many of them (esp. High and Dark Elves) play high-born characters that are particularly interested in traditions -- as were Earthly nobility.  It seems strange to me that such a Teir'Dal would be able to trace back his family to his great-great-great-great grandfather, and yet be unable to put a rough date to the Teir'Dal invasion of the Faydark.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>True, all I can say is that they probably didn't have everyone yapping on and on about the war because they want most of the history to be a surprise once the proper expansion has been released.  Then again, I'm not sure how many Teir'Dal would have survived to come home and then have known to knock on Freeport's door for asylum.</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Furthermore, what about the Parent argument?  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I didn't address that one because it's too valid of a point :smileywink:</DIV>

Madroxci
02-01-2005, 07:51 PM
<DIV>isn't part of the fun for the game going around finding out what has happened rather than just reading it then playing? Thats just my opinion</DIV>

BrizaOr
02-01-2005, 08:31 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kamimura wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, for those few hundred years no one could go to Luclin or even see it in the sky due to the veils the goddess Luclin put in place (which left when the moon exploded). No one really knows why the moon exploded, or what was going on up there that entire time. I dont think anyone will be going up there for a very long time, if ever. It doesnt look like it can support life anymore, and there is still much much exploring to be done on Norrath.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>On the later parts of the game, there are certain things such as books and conversations that <EM>might</EM> give a little hint on what actually happened to Luclin. Of course, no-one but the writers of the lore know the right story, rest of us can just try to piece the puzzle together and hopefully find out the true story. But perhaps this part of one conversation with certain person at EQ2 reveals bit of information. Never the less, it includes spoilers for those who like to find out stuff by themselves - but will be interesting read for those who like to think up what happened on the time between EQ & EQ2.</P> <P><FONT size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2><EM>"Its is forbidden among dragonkind for dragons of differing elements to mate and bring forth offspring. The combination of the elements result in a prismatic dragon, a creature of immense power and energy. Only one prismatic dragon has existed on Norrath, the Sleeper, Kerafyrm..."</EM></FONT></P> <P><EM><FONT size=2>"How powerful are prismatic dragons?"</FONT></EM></P> <P><EM><FONT size=2>"Look to the sky child. The destruction you find there is the doing of the Sleeper simply as a display of power and a reminder to all living beings of his supremacy. Do you realize the danger now?"</FONT></EM></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P></FONT></P> <P></FONT></P> <P><BR></P> <p>Message Edited by BrizaOrin on <span class=date_text>02-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:33 PM</span>

Jaron
02-01-2005, 08:51 PM
<DIV>Is this a quote from a conversation with an actual NPC in EQ2?  And where was this NPC located, if I may pry? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

BrizaOr
02-01-2005, 09:31 PM
<DIV>Quote is from actual conversation, ill send you a PM as the npc is tied to one of the hallmark quests in the game. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Xalbus
02-02-2005, 12:22 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grunarch wrote:<BR> <DIV>Thought...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If a goddess can conceal an entire moon, I don't see why another (or multiple) gods couldn't create an illusion that the moon exploded and just leave the illusion of an exploded moon in the sky.  Where Luclin is still there as it always was behind the illusion...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm still not going up ther though!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah I can see that, if you discount the huge chunks of moon that crashed into Norrath and reshaped the continents, but other than that I can see it as a possiblity <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

Xalbus
02-02-2005, 12:31 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> troodon311 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raszcal wrote:<BR> <DIV>Secondly, it's also just kind of foolish, it seems, to have this information hidden.  Five hundred years, when you think about it, isn't a very long period of time.  On real-time Earth, 500 years only goes back to the 1500's -- the height of the Renaissance.  To tell EQ2 players, "What happened five hundred years ago is no longer common knowledge.  Only in-game Loremaster NPCs have this information," seems unrealistic.  It would be as if we on Earth had generally forgotten about da Vinci, Christopher Columbus, Bach, the American Revolution, etc., and that only the very wise knew of these bits of information.  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That's not a suitable comparison.  We live in an advanced society with public and higher education.  How about this, go back to the 13th century and see how many people knew what had gone on 500 years before.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>actually, in order to compare the two, round about 1700 a world war would have needed to break out (iirc the 2nd rallosian war was between the EQ:L and the shattering but not recent) and between that and 1990 a series of earth changing events would have had to take place culminating with the moon exploding and raining chunks down on the Earth destroying everything but New York and Los Angeles, turning North Dakota, Nevada, Utah, Tenesee and British Columbia into separate islands, cutting off the rest of the world world from the North American Continent.</FONT></P> <P>Which is my long winded way of saying, There was no major cataclysm in our history between 1500 and 2000 to cause us to lose the knowledge. Books, music, buildings, and items from the 1500s still exist today virtually unchanged from when they where new.</FONT><BR></P>

Madroxci
02-02-2005, 12:39 AM
<DIV>yes but we also didn't have a bunch of evil gods send in their minions to the moon and slaughter everyone along with elementals from the planes coming up slaughtering everyone either.</DIV>

thunde
02-09-2005, 09:45 AM
OK, so Kerafyrm destroyed the moon, Luclin. The sleeper has awoken so to speek. But why, has he broken free from his imprisonment from the Tomb? And why attack the moon? Did Luclin tick him off, or have somthing to do with his entombment? And, if so, a mob with 4 Billion hp's, is he on the loose now? And how does the greenmist pay into this? And, what of Naggy and Vox, his parents, do they have any role in this?Very interesting, is there a correlation between the Greenmist and Kerafyrm? humm....(btw, speculation and gosup is much more entertaining than the truth!)

Choombatta
02-09-2005, 09:40 PM
<DIV>My problem with the cohesivness of the storyline is some things seem out of whack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For instance: When working on the Ghoulbane quest, you learn Ghoulbane was originally created to destroy Lord Everling's Spirit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well that means Nektropos Castle is even older then EQ1. So where the hell was it in EQ1?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Varsoon was from the Combine Empire ( also long before EQ1 ), yet no one ever heard about this immensly powerful mage during the EQ1 era?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is things like that, that bug me with the storyline.</DIV>

Aion
02-09-2005, 10:42 PM
By reading excerpts from various diaries within Nektropos Castle, you learn that the Everling family that haunts the castled live there between 3140 - 3160 (respectivly).The game year at launch was 3721.It seems that The Everling manor was located somewhere beyond Neriak. They were a human family, the lord was also a recluse, and kept his familiy under the never sleeping eyes of patchworks. Basically they were forgotten by the humans and ignored by the dark-elves. A desendant of the Everlings still lived, even though no one remembered the family. When Neriak fell, the decendant sent off to find the old castle haveing "no more dark elves to keep me from my rightful riches. No more shall the name Everling be separated from its grandeur."This is were we come in. We get a vision, we speak to an old hermit, we get a book that 'speaks'to us and goedes us into seeking the castle. Everling is still unknown in the common mind (unlike Varsoon who continually terrorized the areas surrounding Qeynos). So you go through the steps, jump through the hoops and you discover that it was all...anyway.its all here:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=1743"Well that means Nektropos Castle is even older then EQ1. So where the hell was it in EQ1?"They actually wrote it in to not conflict with EQ1...