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Quinntus
12-07-2004, 01:37 AM
After spending a little time looking around I have begun to wonder where things from EQ1 are, or might be. I've noticec that new Blackburrow is much futher south that the previous incarnation, and unless Antonica rotated 90' clockwise, there is no way the new BB could or did ever lead to Everfrost.I've also found some strange ruins that look like part of a spire near the Windstalker villiage (east of the lake). I did find this on the web (http://eq2.warcry.com/scripts/images/view_image.phtml?id=47478&site=6<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />What else have people found?

Zutan
12-07-2004, 02:49 AM
<DIV>The "fallen gate" is supposed to be the old "foreign quarter" of Neriak.. However, its position relative to the current "Nektulos Forest" is completely wrong.  The odd thing is, the Nektulos forest zone is about where it should be compared to West Freeport.  Not really sure how or why the foreign quarter got moved to the opposite end of the forest.</DIV>

NocteBla
12-07-2004, 04:04 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zutan wrote:<BR> <DIV>The "fallen gate" is supposed to be the old "foreign quarter" of Neriak.. However, its position relative to the current "Nektulos Forest" is completely wrong.  The odd thing is, the Nektulos forest zone is about where it should be compared to West Freeport.  Not really sure how or why the foreign quarter got moved to the opposite end of the forest.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> The door in the Commonlands leading to Fallen Gate is the start of the <STRONG>newly excavated tunnel </STRONG>to the old entrace of Neriak. If you'll notice, the door you see from inside Fallen Gate is bent and looks like someone drove a truck into it, but the one from the outside does not. This is because there are (from a lore standpoint) two doors, and the zoning process simply omits players running through a tunnel and opening a second door.

Zutan
12-07-2004, 05:27 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> NocteBlanc wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zutan wrote:<BR> <DIV>The "fallen gate" is supposed to be the old "foreign quarter" of Neriak.. However, its position relative to the current "Nektulos Forest" is completely wrong.  The odd thing is, the Nektulos forest zone is about where it should be compared to West Freeport.  Not really sure how or why the foreign quarter got moved to the opposite end of the forest.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> The door in the Commonlands leading to Fallen Gate is the start of the <STRONG>newly excavated tunnel </STRONG>to the old entrace of Neriak. If you'll notice, the door you see from inside Fallen Gate is bent and looks like someone drove a truck into it, but the one from the outside does not. This is because there are (from a lore standpoint) two doors, and the zoning process simply omits players running through a tunnel and opening a second door.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>That still doesnt explain its relative position.. the tunnel would have to go completely under all of nektulos forest to get to the "old" location of Foreign Quarter..  "first gate" area in Fallen Gate zone should be pretty near the front of the old Foreign Quarter which should be in the North West portion of Nektulos, not South East.</DIV>

Kailb
12-07-2004, 07:50 AM
<DIV>There are also Spire ruins west of Freeport. I never spent much time in that area in EQ1, but I don't remember Spires being out that way. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, the Spires in Antonica seem to be in completely the wrong area in relation to Blackburrow. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><<sigh>> trying to compare geography between the two games is really complicated. Maybe someone will figure out how to transpose them, but I don't think it's going to be me.</DIV>

NocteBla
12-07-2004, 08:40 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Zutan wrote:</P> <DIV>That still doesnt explain its relative position.. the tunnel would have to go completely under all of nektulos forest to get to the "old" location of Foreign Quarter.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Exactly. The tunnel is very long, and therefore omitted as something players have to run through. It's covered as you zone.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for the wizard spires... there were spires in West Commonlands in EQ1, not too far off from the druid ring, so their existance is all fine.<BR></P>

RyotGe
12-07-2004, 10:14 AM
There has never been more then one wizard spire on Antonica.You have confused the wizard pyramid with the spires. They are very much differnt.

Quinntus
12-07-2004, 12:14 PM
<blockquote><hr>RyotGear wrote:There has never been more then one wizard spire on Antonica.You have confused the wizard pyramid with the spires. They are very much differnt.<hr></blockquote> <P>There was pyramids in Cazic, East Karana, East Commonlands, North Ro, and Nek Forest (did I miss any?), but only the wizard port that was spires (in Anontica, was in West Karana, just before the bridge. <P>I wish I could figure out why those ruins near Windstalker Village look so familiar. <P>There is also a deep gorge that runs north/south in the east end of antonica (near Knight Morte Winghammer, the bridge, and highway men: -1736, 350) that (using that overlay) could be where the Karana river turned west.

Kulku
12-07-2004, 09:59 PM
<DIV>I suppose it could be said that there were mor spires than those found in EQ1, perhaps buried after the fall of the combine empire, and they somehow emerged after the shattering? :/</DIV>

Straylig
12-07-2004, 10:54 PM
<DIV>500 years passed between EQ1 and now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe new spires were built then destroyed in the shattering?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A LOT of new knowledge was unlocked in the endgame of EQ1 (going by eq1 history and lore), so in 500 years, maybe the secrets of the Combine Empire were unlocked and then lost again in the Shattering?</DIV>

NocteBla
12-08-2004, 02:01 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RyotGear wrote:<BR>There has never been more then one wizard spire on Antonica.<BR>You have confused the wizard pyramid with the spires. They are very much differnt.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I wouldn't call it confusion, just willful ignorance toward the difference. If you <STRONG>really</STRONG> wanted to get nit-picky you could say that they look completely different and therefore are different spires, but since this takes place in a parallel universe as EQ1, I just assumed there to be no difference between the spires and pyramids.</P> <P>I'd assume the spires in Antonica were the West Karana pyramid and the spires in Thundering Steppes to be the North Karana spires from EQ1.</P> <P>There was a pyramid in the Lost Temple of Cazic Thule, I suppose the best way to prove my theory correct would be to see if those are the same graphic as the spires in The Commonlands. There was a pyramid in Nektulos too, actually. Has anyone seen the new-style spires in Nektulos yet? I haven't done much exploring there.</P>

NocteBla
12-08-2004, 02:05 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quinntus wrote:<BR> <P>There was pyramids in Cazic, East Karana, East Commonlands, North Ro, and Nek Forest (did I miss any?), but only the wizard port that was spires (in Anontica, was in West Karana, just before the bridge. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually, it was West Commonlands, not East Commonlands; and West Karana, instead of East Karana. (East Karana had druid rings). And you missed South Ro. :smileywink:</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>The big combine-looking spires were in North Karana, before the bridge to South Karana.</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by NocteBlanc on <span class=date_text>12-07-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:07 PM</span>

Quinntus
12-08-2004, 02:36 AM
<blockquote><hr>NocteBlanc wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>RyotGear wrote:There has never been more then one wizard spire on Antonica.You have confused the wizard pyramid with the spires. They are very much differnt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'd assume the spires in Antonica were the West Karana pyramid and the spires in Thundering Steppes to be the North Karana spires from EQ1.<hr></blockquote>Could be, that would be about right. Anybody playing both games? Could you have a look at both and see how similiar they look. The ruins in Anontica do have this odd little thing in the center that I don't recall seeing, but somehow looks famiilar.<p>Message Edited by Quinntus on <span class=date_text>12-07-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:39 PM</span>

Sene
12-08-2004, 04:11 AM
I think obvious signs such as Blackburrow being on the south side of Antonica, facing away from Everfrost, where it use to be on the east wall of Qeynos hills and from there turning a passage north to Everfrost, are clear indicators that the geography cannot be matched and lined up. As much as I want to and have tried to, they just didn't make it work. There are certain landmarks which persist, but their locations are not going to align with where we would expect from maps of the past.

Tazekiel
12-10-2004, 07:08 AM
<DIV>What if the Qeynosians decided to clean out the gnoll population, and destroyed the old BB entrance? (infact, I THINK I read something about that, I know there is a bit of gnoll lore with the Bells of Vhalen quest). So, assuming that old BB was shut down, the gnolls moved south (after the rending, many hills and mountains sprang up). This would acount for the new location of BB. There has been alot of change in 500 years (obviously), and for me, some things seem kind of familiar (the broken spires/pyramid in antonica). Remembering Antonica from EQ1, and then reading the Lore chapters, I can see how things may be placed. Windstalker village, for example: there was a small village in the northern part of one of the karanas (haven't played EQ in a loong time, it was the zone that linked to highpass and runnyeye), which could be Windstalker village (though I think this village was referenced in one of the Lore chapters as well...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry everything is so vague, my workplace has a stupid web-blocker, and I can only access a few sites....</DIV>

troodon311
12-10-2004, 08:37 AM
<DIV>The devs know their EQ; they aren't going to mess up and forget where spires are supposed to be :smileyhappy:</DIV>

_Baal_
12-10-2004, 10:37 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tazekiel wrote:<BR> <DIV>What if the Qeynosians decided to clean out the gnoll population, and destroyed the old BB entrance? (infact, I THINK I read something about that, I know there is a bit of gnoll lore with the Bells of Vhalen quest). So, assuming that old BB was shut down, the gnolls moved south (after the rending, many hills and mountains sprang up). This would acount for the new location of BB. There has been alot of change in 500 years (obviously), and for me, some things seem kind of familiar (the broken spires/pyramid in antonica). Remembering Antonica from EQ1, and then reading the Lore chapters, I can see how things may be placed. Windstalker village, for example: there was a small village in the northern part of one of the karanas (haven't played EQ in a loong time, it was the zone that linked to highpass and runnyeye), which could be Windstalker village (though I think this village was referenced in one of the Lore chapters as well...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry everything is so vague, my workplace has a stupid web-blocker, and I can only access a few sites....</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>well if you goto bb you will notice that there is a cave that use to goto everfrost or where ever it went. you have to swim there once you get in bb.</P> <P>i didnt play eq1 taht much, but thought i would point it out. who knows alot of things change in 500 years.<BR></P>

Chaws
12-12-2004, 12:18 AM
<DIV><IMG src="http://img12.exs.cx/img12/5180/474780tf.jpg"></DIV>

Alexandr
12-14-2004, 08:19 PM
<DIV>If I am not mistaken, the Blackburrow in EQ2, is a new one, since the Shattering destroyed the old one. That's why the gnolls inside are named Sabertooth instead of Blackburrow, which was the original Gnoll Clan name. I read somewhere that these gnolls are descendants of the Original Blackburrow Gnolls.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was also wondering about the spires near Windstalker Village, and wondered if they are simply the old pyramid with a new look.</DIV>

Harlequiin
12-14-2004, 10:50 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> NocteBlanc wrote: <P>There was a pyramid in the Lost Temple of Cazic Thule, I suppose the best way to prove my theory correct would be to see if those are the same graphic as the spires in The Commonlands. There was a pyramid in Nektulos too, actually. Has anyone seen the new-style spires in Nektulos yet? I haven't done much exploring there.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yes there are spires roughly where the pyramid was in Nek Forest. And the Neriak entrance was on the East side of Nek Forest. Sort of NNE of the center of the forest. Though it seems the forest is 10 times bigger than it used to be.<BR>

Silvane
12-15-2004, 02:15 AM
<DIV>Just curious, what happened to befallen? Shouldn't it be in the common lands somewhere?</DIV>

Kryussius
12-15-2004, 02:22 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alexandros wrote:<BR> <DIV>If I am not mistaken, the Blackburrow in EQ2, is a new one, since the Shattering destroyed the old one. That's why the gnolls inside are named Sabertooth instead of Blackburrow, which was the original Gnoll Clan name. I read somewhere that these gnolls are descendants of the Original Blackburrow Gnolls.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was also wondering about the spires near Windstalker Village, and wondered if they are simply the old pyramid with a new look.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Blackburrow in EQ2 may be new, but the Sabertooth clan of gnolls was at war with the Blackburrow gnolls in EQ1.  They would have likely changed the name of the place if they'd driven the Blackburrow gnolls out.</P> <P>As for the locations being off, remember that the lands *did* get ripped apart by large pieces of moon.  It's likely that landmasses got twisted and moved around some inland as well as being split from each other.</P>

Silvane
12-15-2004, 02:27 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kryussius wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Alexandros wrote:<BR> <DIV>If I am not mistaken, the Blackburrow in EQ2, is a new one, since the Shattering destroyed the old one. That's why the gnolls inside are named Sabertooth instead of Blackburrow, which was the original Gnoll Clan name. I read somewhere that these gnolls are descendants of the Original Blackburrow Gnolls.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was also wondering about the spires near Windstalker Village, and wondered if they are simply the old pyramid with a new look.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Blackburrow in EQ2 may be new, but the Sabertooth clan of gnolls was at war with the Blackburrow gnolls in EQ1.  They would have likely changed the name of the place if they'd driven the Blackburrow gnolls out.</P> <P>As for the locations being off, remember that the lands *did* get ripped apart by large pieces of moon.  It's likely that landmasses got twisted and moved around some inland as well as being split from each other.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I don't think the shattering would have had as much of an effect on positioning/location as the rending would have. The shattering would have caused craters, flooding, etc. but the rending itself was a large barrage of earth quakes. So, imagine the Antonica's tectonic plates wildly shifting...we don't know how the plates are aligned nor do we know the fault lines in which the quakes occured.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everything now is broken up onto it's own island so we know flooding occured and we also know that elevations changed in relation to sea level so that certain areas did not flood. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Examples:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rathe Mtns - during the rending more than likely the elevation was lowered. It is now under water. </DIV> <DIV>Grobb/Innothule Swamp: Sunken, was below sea level any way since it was so marshy - increased sea level from quakes and moves gravitational pull changes flooded it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I may be wrong but I think the elevation changes occured during the rending but the flooding occured mostly during the shattering. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Silvane on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:32 PM</span>

wayfaerer
12-15-2004, 05:48 AM
Blackburrow has a "collapsed Everfrost tunnel" in it, so it seems to be the same blackburrow. It's just.... moved. =P

knightdant
12-16-2004, 03:08 AM
<DIV>Good job to the person who overlapped the maps above. So Zek is what? </DIV>

Kamimura
12-16-2004, 04:11 AM
<DIV>Looks to be what was the Jaggedpine area. As well as possably the unkempt woods, though those were never descovered in EQL because they were sealed up.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kamimura on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>06:13 PM</span>

Jaca
12-16-2004, 11:43 AM
<DIV>Heres my thoughts, everything pretty much matches up, but is in different proportion then in eq1.  SO while things seem out of place just think in bigger proportions than in eq1</DIV>

Ennis
12-16-2004, 01:07 PM
<blockquote><hr>knightdantes wrote:<DIV>Good job to the person who overlapped the maps above. So Zek is what? </DIV><hr></blockquote>It is comprised of parts of SFG, Jaggedpine and Nedaria's Landing.

Gobbwin
12-16-2004, 06:21 PM
<DIV>yep, interesting that they renamed areas largely forested and protected by druids after the Warlord.  I've yet to go, but anyone who has seen whats there?  Perhaps some orcs or ogres retreated and set up camp?  Just shooting in the dark on that one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Ferrot is the remains of the Rathe mountains and the Ferrot; </DIV> <DIV>The Enchanted lands are RiverVale, Runney Eye, Kithicore Woods and Misty Thicket.  </DIV> <DIV>Everfrost is made up of Everfrost Peaks and Permafrost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to befallen, remember it was already buried in EQ1, it is likely completely buried in EQ2.  Likely as are most of the other dungeons from EQ1.  I believe that most of the spires/pyramids are in their ~ proper locations, but as someone else mentioned, its just that the lands have changed and their proportions are different, which can be misleading.  Are they exact match ups?  not likely, but close...  I'm far from being able to go to everfrost, but I'll bet that the ruins of Halas can still be seen, hell the Temple of Cazic-Thule is still intact in the Ferrot so...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It won't suprise me at all to find the remains of the other continents (likely through subsequent expansions).  Hey it can be The Ruins of Kunark...part 2 or Kunark Revisited! :smileyvery-happy:  Remember that the ships are just starting to resail the oceans so there is much to be found!</DIV>

Starman
12-16-2004, 07:02 PM
<DIV>Where are the wizzy spires in TS and Commonlands?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I was in Commonlands about 2 weeks ago at a site called "The Ruins". Looked a LOT like the old EQ1 West Freeport gate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mike</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Ennis
12-17-2004, 12:10 PM
Gobbwin,Velious is still there, though much changed.http://www.eqii.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=186841&highlight=#186841"Velious was affected by climatic changes, and some of the ice coating the ground below melted away. But the continent did not melt away into complete nothingness. The tale of Velious is an interesting one, to say the least. But there are other parts of the overall story that must be told first for the full impact to be realized." There are some other interesting questions concerning the "lost lands".I am going to try to copy the text of the lore NPC's in Qeynos. In every part of the city there is one NPC that tells the story of the Age of Cataclysms and The Shattering from their races point of view. I do not know if there are ones in Freeport but I imagine there are. Would be interesting to compile what all the lore NPC's say into one spot to see if we can glean clues as to whether or not the other continents are indeed gone or just "temproarily misplaced".

Gobbwin
12-17-2004, 06:05 PM
<DIV>That's what I was goin off of as far as the other continents are still there, we just either gotta find em or they will be re-released through expansions.  There are NPCs in FP who do tell about the age of cataclysms.  The 2 that I remember were a kerran who told of the erudites and how they changed, well part of the story anyways.  And another is a DE who tells of neriak and how it was attacked by the haflings.</DIV>

Ennis
12-17-2004, 08:22 PM
The one thing I wonder about is if there is anything left of the southeast corner of old Antonica that has not been discovered yet. (South Ro, Innothule swamp, Gukta.)If the Frogloks loked themselves in lower Guk to save the hatchery (as the Tome of Destiny states) then there must be part of that chunk of Antonica left to be discovered. Frogloks need to breathe air, and you aren't getting much of that if everything for miles around is underwater. We "know" they survived because of the fact that they are in the character creation screen and all the talk of the quest to unlock them. On the character creation screen it says "Rumors have surfaced that the Frogloks are facing grave peril! Follow the clues scattered around Norrath to discover how you can aid this noble race and make them available to play." (note wording is present tense)

Kamimura
12-17-2004, 09:28 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gobbwin wrote:<BR> <DIV>That's what I was goin off of as far as the other continents are still there, we just either gotta find em or they will be re-released through expansions.  There are NPCs in FP who do tell about the age of cataclysms.  The 2 that I remember were a kerran who told of the erudites and how they changed, well part of the story anyways.  And another is a DE who tells of neriak and how it was attacked by the haflings.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> There is also a gnome (I think) who talks about the rough seas and the possable fate of Velious (it thawed out).

Gobbwin
12-17-2004, 09:36 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Ennis wrote:</P> <DIV>The one thing I wonder about is if there is anything left of the southeast corner of old Antonica that has not been discovered yet. (South Ro, Innothule swamp, Gukta.)<BR><BR>If the Frogloks loked themselves in lower Guk to save the hatchery (as the Tome of Destiny states) then there must be part of that chunk of Antonica left to be discovered. Frogloks need to breathe air, and you aren't getting much of that if everything for miles around is underwater. We "know" they survived because of the fact that they are in the character creation screen and all the talk of the quest to unlock them. On the character creation screen it says "Rumors have surfaced that the Frogloks are facing grave peril! Follow the clues scattered around Norrath to discover how you can aid this noble race and make them available to play." (note wording is present tense)</DIV> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Not likely to IMO, remember that was low lands prior to the cataclysms, very likely that they are totally flooded.  Also keep in mind that just because a zone is underwater does not mean that it doesnt have air, see Kesora or whatever it was out in the middle of the lake in LoIO in Kunark.  There are a couple others, but thats the first to come to mind.  It was an entire city, virtually untouched, the entrance was flooded, but the rest was not....</P> <P>O yea, lets not forget the way to Trakron (sp) in old Sebalis, the path down to him was flooded (the first part anyways), then the rest was open air.  And much of Sirens grotto was flooded come to think of it...</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guard_Ra
12-17-2004, 11:55 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quinntus wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> NocteBlanc wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RyotGear wrote:<BR>There has never been more then one wizard spire on Antonica.<BR>You have confused the wizard pyramid with the spires. They are very much differnt.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>I'd assume the spires in Antonica were the West Karana pyramid and the spires in Thundering Steppes to be the North Karana spires from EQ1.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Could be, that would be about right. <BR><BR>Anybody playing both games? Could you have a look at both and see how similiar they look. <BR><BR>The ruins in Anontica do have this odd little thing in the center that I don't recall seeing, but somehow looks famiilar. <P>Message Edited by Quinntus on <SPAN class=date_text>12-07-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:39 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>IMO, the things people are calling spires are not spires at all. If memory serves, the upside down cresent in the middle resembles ceremonial temples that you would find in the ferrot just outside Oggok. Almost as if these were built during the Rallosian invasions.....makes ya go hmmmm..:smileyvery-happy:<BR>

Kamimura
12-18-2004, 01:00 AM
<DIV>Anyone have a picture of them? (EQ2 'spires')</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kamimura on <span class=date_text>12-17-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:00 PM</span>

Ennis
12-18-2004, 09:10 AM
Gobbwin,True.But the distances would be too great to account for an entrance to lower Guk to be contained in Feerot (the closest "known" place to Guk in game currently). Unless, of course, they decide to put in a previously unknown way into Guk from there.So, I am going to guess there are "zones" in the area that Guk and Gukta were located in that are to be discovered. Don't bother looking for them by digging into the game files, though. They could easily be added in a patch when the time is appropriate.

Joh
12-18-2004, 12:30 PM
I was initially confused about this at first, too. I can't really say anything about the Qeynos side because I'm from Freeport, but here is the deal with Fallen Gate.The loyalists to the Thexian dynasty began an expedition to uncover the remains of the beloved Thexian city, Neriak. They searched for years and years and years after the Shattering had ended, but it was to no avail. Eventually, their searches took them to the Commonlands of Freeport, where they unearthed a portion of an ancient, foreign outpost of Neriak. The Thexian Loyalists dug a tunnel deep into the Earth in the hopes that this tunnel will lead them to the buried city, but their search was cut short by the inhabitants of the Fallen Gate. The original reason for locking Fallen Gate was to keep Neriak safe. The Thex queen (whose full name I can't remember) locked the gate behind her when the Teir'Dal first established Neriak. If you go deep enough in Fallen Gate (which, if you will note, goes northward to where Neriak SHOULD BE), you will find a locked door. This is the door that Tundis N'Oxyle wants you to find when you do the Key to the Fallen Gate quest. This door is the door that the Thex dynasty locked so many years ago. If you find a key to this door, I expect you will be able to enter Neriak, though it may now be called by a different name. I believe this key is given by The Sarge after completing his access quest. I could be wrong, I haven't actually done it. It doesn't make sense that he would have the key because he is a gnome, not a Thexian, so I'm either wrong or we have more storyline to uncover <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.As far as the Commonlands go, the druid and wizard spires seem to be all jumbled up. There was a wizard PLATFORM (not spires) in North Ro and a druid ring in the Commonlands (I think West, but I haven't played in a long time so I may be mixing the CL zones up). There were wizard spires in I THINK Kithicor Woods. So it seems the current locations of those two landmarks in the Commonlands are slightly off, but hell, the continents split, and it had to take one hell of a blow to smash those structures. That more than accounts for the slight offset.Personally, I want to visit Faydwer again. I spent so much time in Faydark and Butcherblock... it was crazy. But wow, I loved that place. I can't wait to see it in EQ2.

Vidrua
12-18-2004, 01:30 PM
<DIV>I miss Crushbone</DIV>

Ghidr
12-18-2004, 02:57 PM
I have heard mention of the various lore npcs that tell tales of their ancestral homes. I came across the troll in Big Bend who talks about fleeing Innothule as the swamp itself began to bubble and boil, the hissing not quite loud enough to mask the screaming of frogloks from deep below...My question is if and where the npc who speaks of the fate of Kunark is? I could swear I talked to every npc I could in Scale Yard with nothing of the fate of Kunark coming up. Words cannot describe how I miss old Kunark. Kurn's Tower, City of Mist, Dalnir's Tomb, the Overthere....seeing what has been done to expand the size and depth of existing zones with eq1 tie-ins (The Commonlands, Freeport, etc), I'm real curious to see how updated reworks of these old Kunark zones come out.Ghidron MachtaIksar Bruiser of the 21st RankSeeker of the Court of PainLucan D'Lere"Conan, what is best?""To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!""This is good!"-Conan the Barbarian

Badda
12-19-2004, 03:40 AM
There was a wizard platform in the West Commonlands in addition to the druid ring, it was located between the ring and the entrance to Befallen, near the lake. To the best of my knowledge there was no spire or platform in Kith, but there was a platform in Nektulos. There were also some inactive rings / platforms scattered around that are easily forgotten such as the ring in G-Fay. Also to the best of my knowledge, the only spires on Antonica were located in North Karana (the others being in G-Fay, Tox, [Removed for Content], and DL).

Jaron
12-19-2004, 10:48 PM
<DIV>The "Dragoon Zytl" book quests available from the scribe in the Academy of Arcane Science in Freeport tell some stories about Neriak and the Foreign Quarter.  I haven't finished any of them yet, though.</DIV>

Bend
12-19-2004, 11:08 PM
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>Didn't see it on here, but my eyes fail me sometimes...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=2>This site <A href="http://www.gry-online.pl/eq2/new_antonica.asp" target=_blank>http://www.gry-online.pl/eq2/new_antonica.asp</A> has a good overlay map of the old & new worlds.  Hope this helps.</FONT></DIV>

Exa
12-20-2004, 04:26 AM
<DIV>Regarding Zek:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is an NPC at the docks who tells the story. The island now is a barren wasteland. It is all brown, bare rock, strewn with rubble and dead trees. Think of Commonlands, but another order of magnitude more desolate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you talk to this NPC (Can't remember his name), he tells the story of how the island was once green and forested. After the Rending, however, the Deathfist Orcs washed up on it's shores. WIth the curse removed, they were intelligent again. They claimed the island for their god and named it Zek. They then proceeded to basically strip mine it, cutting down all the trees and mining out all the ores to build their "war machine". He then refers to the island as the Deathfist Empire.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, it would seem correct that Zek was once the Jaggedpine area, but has been deforested and defiled by the Deathfist Orcs which now call it home.</DIV>

Jaron
12-20-2004, 07:51 PM
<DIV>Wowie.  So... no more Ro?</DIV>

troodon311
12-20-2004, 08:55 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ghidron wrote:<BR>My question is if and where the npc who speaks of the fate of Kunark is? I could swear I talked to every npc I could in Scale Yard with nothing of the fate of Kunark coming up. Words cannot describe how I miss old Kunark. Kurn's Tower, City of Mist, Dalnir's Tomb, the Overthere....seeing what has been done to expand the size and depth of existing zones with eq1 tie-ins (The Commonlands, Freeport, etc), I'm real curious to see how updated reworks of these old Kunark zones come out. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The Iksar in the Shattered Lands came to be there before the Rending or the Shattering; they don't know what happened.  If you can get your hands on the book "The History of the Iksar" it tells you that the Rallosians invaded Kunark and the Iksar (because they're so freakin' badass) managed to hold them off until the Greenmist wiped them out.  Cabilis was sunk into LoIO during the cataclysms... I think that was all it said.

Marri
12-24-2004, 12:21 AM
<DIV>As for the spires, In EQOA there was a wizard Spire being built near Telethin.  (Telethin was kinda north of Rivervale and was the elven city).  So even though it makes no sense, 1000 years ago elves still thought they knew how to make Spires.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now what perplexes me is Befallen.  Stormhold was obviously originally desinged to look like Befallen.  I suspect some design decision changed this (perhaps Antonica needed another dungeon.)  In EQOA Befallen as Marr's Fist, a temple to the Marr gods.  So the fist in EQ1 and the fist in the entryway to Stormhold as well as the fist inside.  (its in the center of the main entrance in EQ1 and EQOA; I noticed a sword has been placed in the fist in Stormhold and its off to the side.) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thoughts?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Marri level 30 bard EQOA</DIV> <DIV>Marri level 60 cleric EQ</DIV> <DIV>Grin Level 21 Troubador EQ2</DIV>

Ribwi
12-24-2004, 12:59 AM
I think i read in one of the quest books. it might have been The Hisory of Humans that talks about some of the statues. In the Commons along the road north out of the cross roads there are 3 statues, no one knows how they got there and it is rumored that is the spot where the Temple of Marr was.<p>Message Edited by Ribwich on <span class=date_text>12-23-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:03 PM</span>

RoseWhi
12-24-2004, 02:09 AM
<DIV>It looks like it would be the Surefall Glade area, positioned as it is just north of the old Qeynos Hills. Which is rather odd, seeing how the north quarter of Qeynos (I want to say Elddar Grove, but that doesn't look right) bears a striking resemblance to Surefall.</DIV>

Ghidr
12-24-2004, 04:59 AM
<DIV>Thanks for the pointer to that npc.  Now that I'm through running errands for Vassi and giving into obsessive compulsions I've got some time to pursue the history of my favorite race.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It warms the heart to hear of the Iksar fending off the Rallosian army.  Given that in their prime they went toe to toe with a coven of dragons (the Circle of Scale), it makes sense that even in their reduced state the Iksar can still hold their own against soft-skin invaders.  I can almost hear the screaming of the burynai as they're caught in the middle...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ghidron Machta,</DIV> <DIV>Iksar Bruiser of the 24th rank</DIV> <DIV>Steel Stitched Veteran</DIV> <DIV>Seeker of the Court of Pain</DIV> <DIV>Fond memories of the Harbingers of Thule</DIV> <DIV>Lucan D'Lere</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Halflings like you are an affront to my senses!"</DIV>

jimmyjoe1
12-25-2004, 08:40 PM
<DIV>I think those ruins near Windstalker Village are that of the old Splitpaw. Just a guess.</DIV>

Drachan
12-25-2004, 09:07 PM
<DIV>Some thoughts..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In old world, Surefall to Qeynos was north to south with Blackburrow at the northern half of the eastwall and the entrance to the Karanas at the southern half of the eastwall.</DIV> <DIV>Now Qeynos was destroyed and rebuilt , so it's position is irrelevant, but if Zek is Surefall/Jaggedpine, then the north-eastern part of Qeynos Hills would be lost. The entrance to Steppes/Karanas would be more or less in place, but Blackburrow would be totally misplaced. It's now in the south where formerly Qeynos was and even if you think in larger dimensions, it can't be in the south, especially since the tunnel to Everfrost still seems to be there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now to Commonlands. The entrance to Nektolus is completely out of place. There is one thing left in Commons that can be used as a marker and that's the druids ring. Now remembering old world the druids ring was in the northern half of West-Commons (and there was a Wizzy-platform south of it btw), while the entrance to Nektolus was in the north-eastern half of East-Commons. How can it now be there, where formerly the entrance to Kithikor was? And if they really dug a tunnel to Foreign Quarters, why from that location? Trying to dig there would make much more sense starting from Wailing Caves.</DIV> <DIV>Regarding Befallen, it was south of druids ring in West-Commons, so it should be somewhere in the area, where now that Orc-valley is, maybe a bit more towards Fallen Gate. Besides that, it must be in game, cause there are several files named Befallen in the EQ2 folder.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What also made me wonder, is the destroyed PoK-Portal in Freeport. It formerly was located in West-Freeport in the entrance-area to the sewers. Now it's openly in Longshadow?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe more later if I manage to remember more..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

StoneG
12-27-2004, 02:17 PM
<DIV>Actually, I'm pretty sure Archer's Wood is the old Surefall Glade.  There's an NPC in Antonica that talks about how a long time ago, young archers/rangers would train in those woods, kinda implying Surefall Glade.</DIV>

Quinntus
12-28-2004, 12:30 AM
<blockquote><hr>StoneGuy wrote:<DIV>Actually, I'm pretty sure Archer's Wood is the old Surefall Glade. There's an NPC in Antonica that talks about how a long time ago, young archers/rangers would train in those woods, kinda implying Surefall Glade.</DIV><hr></blockquote>If that is true, then either the designers (under the leadership of Raph "SWG" Koster) have no clue as to the previous geography (a very real possibility with Koster as Chief creative officer), or Antonia rotated 90 degrees clockwise during the geological upheavals and Lucin's shattering. Considering Koster's utter lack of knowlege regarding the sci-fi (and Star wars) genre and arrogance regarding his creations, I do not find it hard to belive that he elected to scrap all that he could so he could remake the game in his own image.

Kondul
12-28-2004, 08:32 AM
My Interpretation:Qeynos stayed pretty much unmoved, The old Qeynos Hills has been built over by the new housing developments for the most part. Surefall Glade is now Elddar Grove and Willow Woods, possible Baubleshire as well.The spires in Antonica are indeed the Combine Spires from Northern Karana, wit hWindstalker Village being the site of the old Gypsie Caravan in North Karana.Blackburrow is another "long tunnel" like the Neriak Entrance has been suggested (leave Antonica going south, but enter BlackBurrow going northeast) I wouldn't be surprised if the clearing of Blackburrow on the top level wasn't in the mountains around the Gnoll tunnel system in Antonica, possibly just north of Vhalen's tower.While I haven't been there I've seen maps and Thundering Steps could easily be remains of South Karana, not only is Splitpaw already there, but you have a gorge with a Guard controlled Bridge over it, (The bridge from North to South Karana in EQ1) and a population of Centaurs.On the Freeport ENd the Commonlands is fairly obviously just the amalgamation of both the Commonlands from EQ1. The Hidden Canyon griffin tower be at about the right location for Befallen, but it was almost completly caved in 500 years ago, so I'm not surprised it's MIA in EQ2. The Ruins of Valmarr woudl be about right for a village that may have sprung up around the old Freeport militia toll gate.

Hahn_Highno
12-28-2004, 01:48 PM
<DIV>Befallen is now off of Antonica... called "Stormhold". Reason? Bone Bladed Claymore is there, the "well" you drop down into, and the fact that the troll is still there (when you'er doing the BBC heritage quest). That's a fun one to explain... how part of the commonlands is on Antonica... while all of Kithicor, and east Karana disappeared. </DIV>

BiOn
12-29-2004, 12:14 AM
<DIV>befallen = stormhold...off of antonica, beside TS</DIV>

Quinntus
12-29-2004, 06:13 AM
<blockquote><hr>Hahn_Highnote wrote:<DIV>Befallen is now off of Antonica... called "Stormhold". Reason? Bone Bladed Claymore is there, the "well" you drop down into, and the fact that the troll is still there (when you'er doing the BBC heritage quest). That's a fun one to explain... how part of the commonlands is on Antonica... while all of Kithicor, and east Karana disappeared. </DIV><hr></blockquote>This only further convinces me that Koster and his team have little care or concern for continuity and instead elected to scrap all that came before them (look at some maps for Enchanted Lands or Feerot - nothing lines up). At best, they just dropped objects from EQ1 around to keep suckers like us wondering.

Drachan
12-29-2004, 01:52 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quinntus wrote:<BR><BR>This only further convinces me that Koster and his team have <STRONG>little care or concern for continuity </STRONG>and instead elected to scrap all that came before them (look at some maps for Enchanted Lands or Feerot - nothing lines up). At best, they just dropped objects from EQ1 around to keep suckers like us wondering.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>*cough*SWG*cough*</P> <P><BR> </P>

Aion
12-29-2004, 08:42 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StoneGuy wrote:<BR> <DIV>Actually, I'm pretty sure Archer's Wood is the old Surefall Glade.  There's an NPC in Antonica that talks about how a long time ago, young archers/rangers would train in those woods, kinda implying Surefall Glade.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Pretty sure that is not the case...</P> <P>There is a book/quest the you can find in East Freeport (probably also available somewhere in Qeynos) called the nine contemplations. I Forget the exact text (I'm at work) but it talks about the history/fate of Surefall on page one, and the entire quest takes place in Zek.</P> <P>I will try to post the text from entry one tonight, but I am far off from making it to zek, so that is all I can provide atm.</P>

Kahl
12-30-2004, 06:37 AM
<DIV>From some lore I gathered off of the isle of Zek it seems to me to be Jaggedpine forest. Stated that from a greenhood in the forest he stated something about retaking the ruins of Jaggedpine from the orcs.</DIV>

Kondul
12-31-2004, 12:52 AM
I'm looking at a map of Stormhold, and it is NOT befallen. I spent many hours in Befallen in EQ1, and that's not even close to being the same place. Similar perhaps, but not the same. It's possible that the Knights of Thunder recovered some of the artifacts from Befallen, and were inspiried by its achitecture, but I imagine that's about it.

Drachan
12-31-2004, 03:50 AM
<DIV>If you talk to Shadow at the docks on Zek, he will tell you, that Zek is the remaining part of Jaggedpine. That means you, can find Surefall somewhere in the ocean..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Grognar
12-31-2004, 04:55 AM
<DIV>Im sorry that I can't provide solid references, but I distinctly remember it being stated repeatedly by official sources (or stated and repeated a lot) that Stormhold was the old Befallen.  They may have changed this story during developement (I also remember it being stated that some evilmage [Zarvonn by chance?] locked himself there {Befallen/Stormhold} along with the [Knights of Thunder?] who had invaded to stop him).</DIV>

Kondul
12-31-2004, 06:54 AM
Well, I know the Prima Guide says vetrans of EQ1 might note some similarities to the old Befallen, but it doesn't come out and say that Stormhold = Befallen.And people always seem to forget that Surefall Glade was not directly connected to the Jaggedpine, all travel to and from Jaggedpine forest was accomplished by Teleporter. One in the caves at the back of Surefall, one in the bowels of Blackburrow, and, of course, Circle of Jaggedpine for Druids. The only zone directly connected to Jaggedpine Forest was Nederia's Landing. Just look at Elddar Grove as compared to Surefall. Monk's Dojo = Ranger's Guildhall, Arborr = Druid Guild. Only thing missing is the caves, and if parts of them caved in, that can be explained away by the tunnel to Baubbleshire & Willow Wood.

Drachan
12-31-2004, 02:51 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kondular wrote:<BR>...<BR>Just look at Elddar Grove as compared to Surefall. Monk's Dojo = Ranger's Guildhall, Arborr = Druid Guild. Only thing missing is the caves, and if parts of them caved in, that can be explained away by the tunnel to Baubbleshire & Willow Wood.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Hmm.. never looked at it from that side. This would explain the location of Blackburrow and that broken spire in TS near Griff fields.</DIV> <DIV>Good observation, Kondular <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Jaron
01-03-2005, 10:50 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kahlel wrote:<BR> <DIV>From some lore I gathered off of the isle of Zek it seems to me to be Jaggedpine forest. Stated that from a greenhood in the forest he stated something about retaking the ruins of Jaggedpine from the orcs.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Yeap.  Clan Deathfist washed ashore on the island that became of the Jaggedpine Forest.  The orcs then set out to log and stripmine as much as they could from the natural resources to rebuild their empire. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Jaron95 on <span class=date_text>01-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:50 AM</span>

Kindler
01-04-2005, 01:07 AM
<DIV>Stormhold has "GYNOK" written on the wall in the entry hallway. If that's not a Befallen reference, I don't know what is. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arana Faywhisper</DIV> <DIV>Wood Elven Warden</DIV> <DIV>Antonia Bayle</DIV>

BLOODka
01-04-2005, 01:34 AM
<DIV>This seriously makes me angry about how much continuity is missing from one game to the other. I mean yeah its supposed to be an "alternate unverse" *cough*bullcrud*cough* but cmon....having BEFALLEN In Antonica (Qeynos Hills/West Karana)? Having Nektulos/Neriak on the WESTERN end of the Common Lands? Blackburrow on the SOUTHERN END of Antonica (with an Everfrost tunnel no less) Cmon thats just very sloppy....</DIV>

Quinntus
01-04-2005, 02:48 AM
<blockquote><hr>BLOODkane wrote:<DIV>This seriously makes me angry about how much continuity is missing from one game to the other. I mean yeah its supposed to be an "alternate unverse" *cough*bullcrud*cough* but cmon....having BEFALLEN In Antonica (Qeynos Hills/West Karana)? Having Nektulos/Neriak on the WESTERN end of the Common Lands? Blackburrow on the SOUTHERN END of Antonica (with an Everfrost tunnel no less) Cmon thats just very sloppy....</DIV><hr></blockquote>One can only wonder how and why these major discontinuities exist. Was the development staff of EQ2 totally unfamiliar with EQ1, or did they just not care?

Kondul
01-04-2005, 05:18 AM
<blockquote>One can only wonder how and why these major discontinuities exist. Was the development staff of EQ2 totally unfamiliar with EQ1, or did they just not care?</blockquote>Or perhaps there is actually an actual reason behind these relocations.

Grognar
01-04-2005, 07:58 AM
<DIV>I say nothing for the other discontinuties, nor do I condone or explain the lack of any apparent reason for the absence of even an apparent explaination for the shifts in geography due primarily to my lack of through experience with Everquest I.  However, to the Everfrost tunnel in Blackburrow, I offer this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That the tunnel in Blackburrow is named after Everfrost does not give definatly that this was a direct passage to the Northernland or even a historic passage between Antonica and Everfrost anymore than the name of New France such denotes a climate or any relation between the lands of <SPAN class=hit>Québec </SPAN>and France.  The name could perhaps referance as late as the very exodus of Northmen through it.</DIV>

Kondul
01-04-2005, 09:38 PM
ACtually, Blackburrow is pretty much identical to what it used to be, and that tunnel connected directly Everfrost in EQ1.

Du
01-04-2005, 10:02 PM
<DIV>Rivervale does not look exactly like the old town, but there is no doubt it is intended to be the same place. Even Fool's Gold is still standing, although a bit different. So obviously the designers decided to follow the old lore but still not slavishly make a perfect copy. That goes for all zones. Seriously, wouldn't it be kinda dull if everything looked exactly the same?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

BLOODka
01-05-2005, 01:38 AM
<DIV>Theres a difference between being exactly the same and being TOTALLY [Removed for Content] OFF KEY</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BB Was never South of Qeynos, even in EQ1 the compass pointed North. On any maps it was always north. Now I can accept if The Original BB was wiped away and a new one was made, but to have an "Everfrost Tunnel" is totally stupid....and maybe they named it as a rememberance thing but do you seriously think gnolls are that smart?</DIV>

Kondul
01-05-2005, 09:45 AM
ORwith the moon exploding and and giant storms and earthquakes decimating the known world, maybe Blackburrow actaully got moved through natural disaster or twisted magic, or whatever.It's entirely possible that there's actually a perfectly legitimate reason for Blackburrow being where it is.

Gobbwin
01-05-2005, 06:05 PM
<DIV>The location isn't so much the problem, as you said its acceptable that it was destroyed and thus moved.  So what if the gnolls rebuilt it to look much the same as the original, the problem is that there is that tunnel to EF.  Maby they were trying to reconnect up there for some reason (perhaps trying to get back to the original BB along the way).  As far as stormhold and befallen, maby those knights came about later (after EQlive) and built their fortress to resemble that of befallen.  Who knows, maby it was survivors of the original befallen (I don't know enough of the lore surrounding this to say for certain).  As far as Nek forest in relation to the commonlands and its size, remember that it was just a canyon through the mountains connecting them in EQlive, so what if that collapsed?  Also the forest is massive compaired to what it used to be, so it expanded during the cataclysms as it might have been less affected, much of rivervale and its surrounding areas survived largely unscathed...</DIV>

Drachan
01-05-2005, 06:35 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BLOODkane wrote:<BR> <DIV>Theres a difference between being exactly the same and being TOTALLY [Removed for Content] OFF KEY</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BB Was never South of Qeynos, even in EQ1 the compass pointed North. On any maps it was always north. Now I can accept if The Original BB was wiped away and a new one was made, but to have an "Everfrost Tunnel" is totally stupid....and maybe they named it as a rememberance thing but do you seriously think gnolls are that smart?</DIV> <P><BR> <HR> </P> <P><BR>If Eldaar really is Surefall, then the location off BB fits pretty well..</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jaron
01-05-2005, 06:44 PM
<DIV>Wasn't Befallen a temple dedicated to Marr?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wasn't Stormhold a temple dedicated to Karana?</DIV>

JDDbull
01-05-2005, 07:02 PM
<DIV>Stormhold is definately an old temple/outpost of Karana.  The few npc's in there talk about Karana, and there is the altar of Karana there as well.</DIV><p>Message Edited by JDDbull on <span class=date_text>01-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:14 PM</span>

BLOODka
01-05-2005, 08:59 PM
<DIV>If Eldaar is Surefall (nope possibly though) then BB is in NO WAY in any "fit" area compared to it. You seem to not understand that in EQL, Qeynos Hills was kinda flipped. If you zone from North Qeynos into Qeynos HIlls you are facing North/NorthEast. BB was still North but a little North West of where you zone in (makes sense) and Surefall was North/NorthEast. West Karana was directly West.</DIV>

Drachan
01-05-2005, 09:47 PM
<DIV> <DIV>ok, i hope this works..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>********** S ******************<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>**********<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>******************</FONT>*<BR> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>*<FONT color=#000000>**********<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>******************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>***********<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>*****************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>***********<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>*****************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>************<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>****************</FONT>B<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>************<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>****************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>************<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>****************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>*************<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>***************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>*************<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>***************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>*************</FONT><FONT color=#996600>****************</FONT>K<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>*************<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>***************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>*************<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>***************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>*************<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>***************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>*************<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>***************</FONT>*<BR>************* Q ***************</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is roughly how old Qeynos Hills looked.</DIV> <DIV>Now it was stated that old Qeynos was destroyed and rebuilt somewhere else. If Surefall is Eldaar, then BB ofcourse is south of new Qeynos.<BR>Eldaar is pretty much in the north of Qeynos and the city largely expands to the south. This explains why the southern part of Qeynos is almost on one line with BB. It kinda used up all the space, where formerly was the lake where Hadden could be found.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>********<FONT color=#0000ff>**</FONT> S <FONT color=#0000ff>*</FONT>*****************<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>*******<FONT color=#0000ff>***</FONT><FONT color=#996600>*</FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>**</FONT>****************</FONT>*<BR> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>*<FONT color=#000000>*******<FONT color=#0000ff>***</FONT><FONT color=#996600>*</FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>*</FONT>*****************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>*******<FONT color=#0000ff>****</FONT><FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>*****************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>********<FONT color=#0000ff>***</FONT><FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>***********  <FONT color=#ffffff>A  </FONT>**</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>*********<FONT color=#000000>***</FONT><FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>****************</FONT>B<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>******<FONT color=#ffffff>C</FONT>****<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>****************</FONT>*<BR>*<FONT color=#000000>************<FONT color=#996600>*</FONT>****************</FONT>*<BR></DIV> <DIV>Here the blue part marks new Qeynos, C is Coldwind and A is Archers. Fits pretty well imho..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>

Kondul
01-05-2005, 11:24 PM
I didn't know Qeynos had moved. Takes a bit of a leap to figure the scale is off THAT much between EQ1 & EQ2, but it does fit. I had assumed what used to be Qeynos Hills in EQ1 was now North Qeynos in EQ2 with the city expanding in that direction. I also figured that Blackburrow was actually somewhere in the mountain where the gnoll tunnels are in Antonica, with the tunnel into Blackburrow being a rather long means of getting there. I mean, you zone out of Antonica facing due south, and into Blackburrow facing east-northeast, so there's obviously a stretch of tunnel between the door in antonica and the door in blackburrow.

Drachan
01-05-2005, 11:41 PM
<DIV>We have to take into account, that EQ1 is old and they didnt have the technology to put everything into the scale they wanted to.<BR>For example, do you really think east commons was intendedly that small? You could have spit from Nek zone over to EC tunnel.<BR>If they would do old EQ with the EQ2 engine, every zone would be much bigger. Scale is something we can't take into account for this discussion simply due to the limitations they had back then..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

raptorjb0
01-06-2005, 01:27 AM
<DIV>Well, if anyone has ever taken the baot to forest ruins you may notice that the ruins there look strikinly similar(at least on the outside) to the old qeynos walls.</DIV> <DIV>I belive that forest ruins is the location of the old qeynos, but where it is on geography in eq2 I'm not so sure since its a bell access only zone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take a look for yourself. If this is the case, then the theory for the newly rebuilt qeynos having a new location seeming built off of the old surefall glade makes a little more sense.</DIV>

BLOODka
01-06-2005, 01:34 AM
<DIV>That is ASSUMING that Eldaar is Surefall, no confirmation yet. But if you look at it. BB in EQ2 goes SOUTH the further in you go. If you head SOUTH and see a tunnel to Everfrost which is NORTH that doesnt make sense. Brings back memories of the boats from Freeport to Butcher Block mountains...going East your compass said West and going West your compass said East...oy!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But unless BB MAGICALLY twisted around it doesnt make sense. If it werent for the EF tunnel I wouldnt be making such a big deal about this and yeah Befallen/Stormhold are totally different.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can understand putting Nektulos Forest where it is...its just off of the Commonlands no matter what really...all of it is NORTH of Freeport. Fallen Gate however ticked me off as well, shouldnt THAT be within Nektulos Forest? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I seem to see screenshots of deserts and palm trees, yet the Desert of Ro is gone. I havent explored much of the Commonlands but is part of it still desert?</DIV>

Kamimura
01-06-2005, 02:31 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> raptorjb007 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, if anyone has ever taken the baot to forest ruins you may notice that the ruins there look strikinly similar(at least on the outside) to the old qeynos walls.</DIV> <DIV>I belive that forest ruins is the location of the old qeynos, but where it is on geography in eq2 I'm not so sure since its a bell access only zone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take a look for yourself. If this is the case, then the theory for the newly rebuilt qeynos having a new location seeming built off of the old surefall glade makes a little more sense.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>The tower within the forest ruins is the old Tower of Three, the old mage/chanter/wizard tower from EQL. It is said in game, and you can find the remains of old trainers there. That tower use to be in South Qeynos in EQL. The forest ruins are the north more part of Qeynos now. North of baubleshire and willow wood. </P> <P>(Now, if this was done on purpose for a reason, or was just an oversight by the team I have no idea.)</P><p>Message Edited by Kamimura on <span class=date_text>01-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:35 PM</span>

Drachan
01-06-2005, 04:51 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kamimura wrote:<BR> <BR><BR> <P>The tower within the forest ruins is the old Tower of Three, the old mage/chanter/wizard tower from EQL. It is said in game, and you can find the remains of old trainers there. That tower use to be in South Qeynos in EQL. The forest ruins are the north more part of Qeynos now. North of baubleshire and willow wood. </P> <P>(Now, if this was done on purpose for a reason, or was just an oversight by the team I have no idea.)</P> <P>Message Edited by Kamimura on <SPAN class=date_text>01-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:35 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If this is true (haven't found any hints yet, so I take it as you said), then all theory is out of the window again.<BR>Forest ruins is north of Qeynos and if that's the old mage tower (tho the ruins in no way look like that area in old Qeynos) then..</DIV> <DIV>1. Eldaar is not Surefall</DIV> <DIV>2. Surefall is sunken in the ocean</DIV> <DIV>3. BB is way off</DIV> <DIV>4. Everything else is off too</DIV> <DIV>*sigh*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Kamimura
01-06-2005, 06:12 AM
<DIV>I wouldnt think Elddar is surefall. I believe Surfall/Jaggedpine areas are on what is now Zek.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This lady from EQL <A href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=2816" target=_blank>http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=2816</A> had remains which can be found in the forest ruins in the tower area. I think there might be someone else there as well. She was in the mage tower of EQL. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it's Algan Tinmizer in baubleshire who sends you to look for the tower of the order of three, that was the name of the old mage tower. I think he even says that as well, though I cant remember. I think someone else says something about it as well.. maybe the guard in Forest Ruins? I will have to see later.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Kondul
01-06-2005, 10:56 AM
There was <i>no</i> mage tower in Qeynos in EQ1. They had a round room, but that was about it. Maybe 2 stories tall. Hardly a "tower". Freeport had a Mage Tower, and they still do, just now it's been repossesed and turned into Lucan's Citadel. There is nothing about the Forest Ruins that looks anything like any area of old Qeynos in EQ1.I'm pretty sure that the Forest ruins were built at some point between EQ1 & EQ2. Probably after the Cataclysms, but before the shattering. Hence when Luclin went up (came down?), they got ruined.And Surefall, as I said before, does not have to be in the same place as Jaggedpine. Surefall was connected to Jaggedpine by a teleporter. The forest could have been on Faydwer and stil been connected to Surefall.

raptorjb0
01-06-2005, 01:06 PM
<DIV>The part of forest ruins the resemble the old qeybos is the walls from the outside. The style of them is a very close resemblence to the old qeynos.</DIV>

Drachan
01-06-2005, 01:56 PM
<DIV>Zek is a part of the old Jaggedpine Forrest. That's clearly stated by Shadow (NPC on Zek docks).</DIV> <DIV>"A part of Jaggedpine" means for me, that most of Jaggedpine is no more (sunken or simply bombed away by a piece of Luclin). That also means that Zek is not Surefall. Therefore Surefall is most likely sunken or bombed away too. With Shadow's statement the location of Jaggedpine is set to north of Qeynos, no matter if there were porters or not.</DIV>

Grognar
01-06-2005, 09:06 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> raptorjb007 wrote:<BR> <DIV>The part of forest ruins the resemble the old qeybos is the walls from the outside. The style of them is a very close resemblence to the old qeynos.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>With all due respect, that means very little. There are Roman aqueducts in Anatolia and greek arcitecture in USA and Japan; so just because it resembles Qeynos does not mean it is Qeynos.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I, myself, did believe it to be old Qeynos (though, as I have said, my experience with EQL is limited), however in the Prima guide (which I know, is far from infalliable) is says that it is an old castle.  I don't know why a castle would have a mage tower, but the structure does bear more resemblance to a castle than a city, though this too is only supposition because of the limits of game desgin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: From the cases I have heard for a Befallen-Stormhold connection, the most compelling point imho is the central hall we 4 doors, one leading to a well and one being held shut by a mysterious force.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Grognard3 on <span class=date_text>01-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 AM</span>

Gobbwin
01-06-2005, 11:23 PM
<DIV>That reminds me, I've been meaning to ask about that door.  Is there a key, is it suppose to be opened from the inside? anyone know?</DIV>

Kassanya
01-08-2005, 07:24 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>You had me convinced for a while there Drachan, with youre theory that EG is SFG :smileyhappy:. It does actually look like it works. I am looking at the map of Qeynos on my wall at the moment and I can see the cabin in SFG in my head if I look at EG. It also has a large tree reminiscent of that which the druids were in in SFG. But then I read Kanimuras post on the old tower of the three and I also recall hearing that Forest Ruins is indeed that. Of course, though it has been 500 years since EQ1 anything could have happened to the tower of the three. Where is the information that Qeynos has been rebuilt, I imagine it takes a while to rebuild a city. It is my interpretation that the Rallosian conquests happened between 100 and 200 years before the present day. Is it easy to rebuild a city in that time? (this is not to say that Kanimura is wrong :smileyhappy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Since I first read this therad I have done some thinking and done a few lore quests from the books in the mage tower in SQ. I recently found the lore of elementals and it has information on a mage that trained in Qeynos. It talks of an accident with fire and the deaths of lots of instructors. The Forest Ruins is an old mage training centre yeah? Perhaps this is the place he speaks of. Unforetunatley EQ2 is down so I cannot visit the FR and find the information that Kanimura stated. Maybe , though, there is a mix-up in history and the FR are not actually the tower of the three. As people have said EQ1 was bound by limitations in what they could do so we cannot assume there was just one mage training centre.</P> <P>I have found that if you look at Qeynos you can sort of see the layout from EQ1. NQ is similar to the look of the newbie area in EQ1 and the layout of the buildings is somewhat similar to how it was. The only major change is that the temple of life is where the old monk guild should have been, and that there is a bloody great castle in the middle. Again, though, due to limitations maybe they just left the castle out of EQ1 and the buildings have just been moved around for aesthetics and ease of movement (it is not a major problem to have a slightly different layout from EQ1).</P> <P>This would all mean that Antonica would be what is left of Qeynos Hills. It would put Blackburrow in the right place and would make the lake at Windstalker Village the lake just outside SFG in EQ1 (where Hadden spawned). In this scenario SFG would be somewhere like the Vale of Shattering.  There is also an area called Qeynos Hills in Antonica and a hill called Fippys Hill, so it fits that Antonica is just the old QH zone.</P> <P>The Thundering steps would be what is left of the Karanas. People have commented on the remians of the old spires near Windstalker Village. There is a piece in the small wood near the NE beach. Maybe it was dragged there. We are talking 500 years, you never know what the gnolls, the rallosians and other people have done to the landscape.</P> <P>Just one big problem though. It means that the whole bit of land that Qeynos and Antonica is on has been rotated around 90 degrees clockwise. This just doesn't happen in 500 years, no matter how much tectonic activity there is, tectonic plates do not rotate on an axis like that in such a short time, or at least I wouldn't think so. Many continents on Earth have rotated slightly, but it took many more than 500 years to do so ( I believe the sub-continent of India has spun around since it attached itself to the Himalayas as it sued to be part of Australia). The area has also changed in size by a bit which is odd. Maybe this is just what the developers have done, taken QH zone and enlarged it or used it as a basis for the continent of Karan. The world map does not actuually seem to fit with the maps of Antonica and TS. There is a huge great jut of land on the world map that is not present on the map of Ant or TS. Without this the size of Karan would actually be about right, and TS would be about right for the remains of the Karanas. I am just a littel stumped on why it has spun round. (Ok quite a mixed up paragraph, but I have written things as I think of them...if I could include maps to show exactly what i mean I would).</P> <P>Someone commented that the map layout of the Feerot was wrong too. I have compared this to the old EQ1 map and it seems to have been spun around too, this time by 90 degrees anti-clockwise. So perhaps there really was some serious tectonic activity in the last 500 years that has shifted the continents around to extreme proportions.</P> <P>If you think about it there are perhaps 3 or maybe 4 tectonic plates that cover the old continent of Antonica. A northern one would have contained, Everfrost, JaggedPine, the unkempt woods, Rivervale, Misty Thicket and Lavastorm. The plate margin would run through the mountains between QH and EF, then along the north of the Karanas, though the Highpass mountains and the NE above the Commons and Nektulos. Another would contain the Commonlands, FP, Nektulos and the desert and swamp areas of SE Antonica, with the plate boundary running south from HK. The third plate would be the Karanas and Qeynos along with the Rathes and the Feerott. You might even put the Feerott on a fourth plate if it has indeed spun around a different way to Antonica. All these plates have moved out from each other to create an ocean between them.</P> <P>One more thing is that people have compared Stormhold to Befallen. I honestly do not think they are the same place. I have also noticed the words Gynok on the walls of Stormhold, and recall that it was also on the walls of Befallen. Gynok was a ancestor of the Moltor family of Qeynos. When the humans of Everfrost first met the gnolls of Blackburrow, the gnolls were friendly. The shaman Opolla greeted the humans and Gynok Moltor cut her hand off (the paw of opolla from EQ1). The gnolls placed a curse on the Moltor family and it survives to this day, I expect. In EQ1 you could find Moltors in some of the least desirable locations, there was one in the Qeynos Catacombs. The zombie of Gynok Moltor was in Befallen and he had scrawled his name all over the walls. I know not why his name would be all over the walls of Stormhold, but perhaps it is a form of mockery to any human who may enter there. I can't recall what happened to stormhold to make it a haunt of the dead, but maybe gnolls had something to do with it. Perhaps they are more intelligenmt that we think and scrawled Gynok on the walls to make us know they know (if you see what I mean). </P> <P>Lastly, because this post is a little long, the tunnel to EF in Blackburrow being so far from EF does not matter. It is caved in and we do not even know if there is anything but solid rock behind that wall of rocks. Perhaps there is a collapsed tunnel to Blackburrow somewhere in Everfrost that is exactly the same.</P> <P>These are all just ideas of mine. However strange the idea that Antonica is just QH spun round 90 degrees is, it is just an idea and does seem to fit in my head, or maybe I have just convinced myself. If SFG is the Vale of Shattering then maybe there are some secrets for the rangers in there. I believe the VoS quest has been broken until now. Let me know what you think of my ideas, I am interested to see how it goes down :smileyvery-happy:.</P> <P> </P> <P>Bryyn Holifeet, templar of Mr Fizzlethorpe (AB server)</P><p>Message Edited by Kassanya on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:30 PM</span>

Kamimura
01-08-2005, 08:47 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kassanya wrote:<BR> <P>(this is not to say that Kanimura is wrong :smileyhappy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I dont think im right or wrong. I just post what I find in game, I leave it up to someone else to make sense out of it. :smileytongue:</DIV>

Kondul
01-08-2005, 12:41 PM
I'm 90% certain that it would be impossible for even a small island to rotate 90 degrees in the real world in the span of 500 years. But then, it's been quite a while since our world was hit by a moon. :pThat's what happened to the Forest Ruins, hit by chunks of Luclin, like Crater Pond.And if you consider it, your 90 degree thing actually works for Antonica = QH. Vale of the Shattering would be Surefall. Windstalker would be the Hadden lake, Maybe explain away the Wizard spires as they started building new ones when the old ones stopped working in a futile attempt to reconnect to the moon. (it's not just a little chunk, there's a full set of ruined spires onm the ridge up beside Fangbreaker's)The Blackburrow entrance would be a little too far south/west for EQ1 QH, but I'm sure it could be explained away. And stormhold would be in the right place to line up with the ruins that were just east of the surefall tunnel in EQ1. Maybe the Knights of THunder repopulated some old ruins ("Befallen West") and the various events of the last 500 years let the undead out of wherever they'd been forced to. And it would make sense for one of these cursed Gynoks to be in a temple that close to Qeynos.For thundering steps being the Karanas, the problem there is that it looks so much like South Karana. I suppose if East and North Karana sank in the Shattering while QH rotated, it's possible that QH ended up butting up against South Karana.ALso, if everything rotated, the Temple of life wouldn't be where the old monk guild was, they'd be behind Crow's the monk guild would be against the outer wall directly across from the Temple. But any change in the city can be easily dismissed by Rallosian attacks, earthquakes, meteor strikes, and all the other stuff that's happened over the past 5 centuries.And 100 years would be more than enough to rebuild a city the size of Qeynos. The Great Pyramids supposedly took less than that, and they didn't have the ability to summon Earth Elementals the size of small buildings to move around blocks and equipment. (at least, we assume they didn't)

ClanArtemis
01-08-2005, 06:21 PM
<DIV>  Maybe they got the designer for the Ocean of Tears zone in EQ1 to design the EQ2 world so everything is backwards <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Stormreaver
01-08-2005, 08:16 PM
<DIV>You cant take it too literally. Befallen IS Stormhold, as far as real life goes. They wanted to make a zone like Befallen, because they feel it is the classic dungeon crawl. The zone name is Befallen. When the bug existed in beta were zone names were not showing up and the internal ones were showing instead, anyone in Stormhold was noted as being in Befallen. Stormhold is BEfallen V2, bigger, better, but using the same concept and nostalgia. Lore simply doesnt come into it. They added the lore after the zone was made. It's not the befallen from EQ1 magically trasported, its just a clone under a different name.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jaggedpine/Surefall is Zek, been said many times. The Frogloks are all in the Feerott, as noted by Lucan D'lere in the Chistopher lee interview.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Kassanya
01-09-2005, 04:02 AM
<BR> <DIV>Moorgard has said, himself, that the team have written the lore for every zone before the designers design that zone. For that reason I'd like to think that Stromhold was designed as Stormhold. Perhaps a designer was told to take his inspiration from Befallen and so named it Befallen, and maybe that is something the PR people haven't yet noticed. Though I do have to say I have noticed the similarities to the old Befallen, bar of course, the Shadowknights and all the evil Dark Elves. It is just nice to have some lore that makes it Stormhold rather than clutching on the "mistakes" of the designers. That is why I bought up the Moltor lore, to give the zone some reason, and in my head, at least, it fits quite nicely. I have definately heard tales of an order of knights, from Qeynos, having their own fortress and it just looks like they fell under bad times. Stick all that lore together and it does it for me.</DIV> <DIV>With regards to gnolls being a little more organised and intelligent than they seem, there is a passage from the quest "Lord Grimrot's Scythe" that talks of the Sabretooth gnolls forming an alliance with the Darkpaw gnolls to restart the War of the Plagues. Gnolls are, it seems, somewhat more clever than we give them credit for, and could easily try to decieve the humans in Stormhold. Someone also posted an excerpt from the mining guides on tehse forums that tells of deception and cunning by the gnolls.</DIV> <DIV>It also occurs to me that there weren't any white furred gnolls in Blackburrow in EQ1, unless my memory is getting extremely bad. As yet we have no idea what happened to the Splitpaw gnolls. Now I believe the tale at the time was of a distancing between the gnolls of Splitpaw and Blackburrow that kept them making any alliances. With all the cataclysms whats the chances that those two clans have also alligned; it woud explain the new found influx of white gnolls in Blackburrow. I think there is more to the gnolls than we have discovered. It was mentioned that TS is alot like SK used to be. Now I agree, but I think that is just coincidence, catastrophic climate changes and tectonic disturbances will have an awfully big impact on an area of land, that may just turn it from the lush plains of West Karana to the semi arid plains of South Karana. I personally think we have to do alot of research before we really know what is up with the land.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh heres the comment by Moorgard that says about the lore being known before azone is designed:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=genmed><B><FONT color=#ffcc00>Moorgard wrote:</FONT></B></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=genmed><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=genmed></SPAN></SPAN><FONT color=#ffcc00><SPAN class=genmed><B>Lycrist of Lanys wrote:</B></SPAN>The lore for EQ2 hasn't been created yet, they have to finish up the graphics first afaik.</FONT><SPAN class=postbody><BR><BR><FONT color=#ffcc00>That is very incorrect. The game's lore has been in development for as long as the game itself has.<BR><BR>Besides the overall lore of what happened to Norrath, the design document for every zone includes the story behind its purpose in the world. Why is it there? Who are the major players and powers in it? What do those characters want from the people who discover them?<BR><BR>Basically, we don't build zones until we know the story behind them. The artists need that information to really make each zone come alive.<BR><BR>We have an in-depth timeline encompassing the 500 years between EQ and our game. We have stories written for expansions you might not see for years, yet those stories inform the actions of some of the characters in the initial release. All of this contributes to the richness of our world and the beings who inhabit it.<BR><BR>As for what we will reveal to you before launch, there will be an extensive amount of it. The current plan is to give you a series of short stories that show you different perspectives on what has happened and to tell you the story of the war, the cataclysms, and select other tales. But there will remain many stories that you will have to uncover as you journey through the world.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <P> </P> <P>As for Zek, I personally don't recall Shadow saying that the land of Zek was once Surefall Glade. He definatley said it was JaggedPine though. I have searched for logs of his chat but can not find any. Would be nice if someone could post that here. I don't think I can go back to hima nd get the transcript again, though I will try.</P> <P>As for the interview with Lucan D'Lere, don't believe everything you hear, many things that sony have given to us is meant to decieve. I like to look at it as a puzzle. If a Rallosian orc told you the story of the siege of Qeynos and then you heard the story from a human ranger, then those two stories would be radically different. The interview with Lucan was done in a way that he was Lucan D'Lere. I don't recall what was said about Frogloks, though, been a while since I read that interview. This is a quote from Moorgard (btw it has been stated that if Moorgard says something about lore, then it is correct...in other words his, and sony's lore is the legit stuff):</P> <P></P><SPAN class=genmed><B><FONT color=#ffcc00>Moorgard wrote:</FONT></B></SPAN> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00>While my Lucan interview was intended largely to entertain, it was also meant to make you think.<BR><BR>Lucan is a political leader, ruling a town full of evil types. Why would you believe that he is telling you the truth? It's in his best interest if you believe in him instead of the gods, after all.<BR><BR>The nature of propaganda is to distort facts to favor a particular agenda. Lucan and Antonia are likely to look at the same historical events very differently. Which one is telling you the truth? Is either going to give you the whole story? And really, why should they?<BR><BR>We live in a culture dominated by sound bites. In the quest to get our news and opinions delivered to us in neat little packages, it's all too easy to form assumptions based on little or no detailed information. There are no shortage of people in the world who rely upon this very phenomenon to stay in power. Why would the leaders of Norrath be any different?<BR><BR>Maybe evil old Lucan has a lesson for us after all.</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Bryyn Holifeet, templar of Mr Fizzlethorpe (AB server)</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Drachan
01-09-2005, 06:22 AM
<DIV>Shadow only mentions Jaggedpine. That's why I assumed Surefall is sunken or destroyed. The hint of Surefall being Elddar seems to be wrong too unfortunately, tho the theory was interesting.</DIV> <DIV>Not sure if Splitpaw is still there. At the end of the dead river in TS is something which looks a bit like Splitpaw, but I couldn't check yet, cause I didn't want to get ripped into pieces :smileytongue: The Gnolls there have a different name, but maybe the Clan reorganized under a new name after the shattering (in case there was a need to reorganize that is. Nothing known so far). It would also make sense location-wise. It may have been shifted south a bit, but it could match. KFC would be lost forever tho <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Arisma
01-11-2005, 01:21 AM
<DIV>If someone mentioned it earlier my appologies but here is an interesting tidbit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The map and config files for the Stormhold dungeon are called Befallen ... Hmmmmmm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arismath</DIV><p>Message Edited by Arismath on <span class=date_text>01-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:22 PM</span>

Aion
01-11-2005, 01:52 AM
<DIV>I have mentioned it before, but the quest book, <EM>The Nine Contemplations</EM>, starts with an entry about Surefall and then asks you to kill Sullon Centurians in Zek. I can't remember the exact wording...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I havent completed any more of the book past that, but I will post the contents when I am finished.</DIV>

Kondul
01-11-2005, 08:12 AM
Even if the files are called Befallen. Befallen was an ancient cursed temple of Tunare, left over from the days of Takish-hiz by all accounts. And despite the best efforts of many adventurers unredeamable in that entire time.Why would a paladin order loyal to Karana go to all the effort of cleansing Befallen, then re-consecrating it to their own god, and somehow move it to the Plains of Karana?Out of character, the most likely explanation is that the dev team made it with the intention of it being Befallen, then someone said "Uh, you know, that's on the wrong side of a continent and a whole lotta mountains." So they revamped it slightly, re-lored it, and voila, Stormhold. Unfortunatly, everything was already named, hench the confusion.

Jaron
01-11-2005, 11:16 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kondular wrote:<BR>Befallen was an ancient cursed temple of <FONT color=#ffff00>Marr</FONT>, left over from the days <FONT color=#ffff00>before Lucan D'Lere rose to power</FONT> by all accounts. And despite the best efforts of many adventurers unredeamable in that entire time.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Fixed. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

BLOODka
01-11-2005, 07:27 PM
<DIV>It wouldnt have been that hard to make Stormhold location another dungeon and stick Befallen in Commonlands :smileyindifferent:</DIV>

Kondul
01-12-2005, 03:02 AM
Are you sure? I could have sworn I read somewhere that it had been the high temple for the people of Takish-Hiz cursed and Abandoned at the same time the dessert started to take over...Ah, here we go, the EQ Atlas. It says the history of Befallen is unclear, the Tier'Dal claim it to be part of the old Takish-Hiz, and others claim it to be a citadel of the Knights of Marr. So I guess, at least partly, we're both right. :p

Kondul
01-12-2005, 03:10 AM
Unfortunatly, whoever made up the map for Stormhold, if they intended it to be Befallen, they put the entrance at the wrong end of the main hall. Starting from there the entire structure's turned a full 180. As I said before considering the condition Befallen was in during EQ1, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing had caved in before Luclin even exploded.

BLOODka
01-12-2005, 07:58 AM
<DIV>Well if you ever played EQOA (even though it is FAR from being good on lore) then the Temple of Marr is where Befallen in EQL is...so the Dark Elves are wrong <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But again EQOA isnt known for being accurate.</DIV>

Glyceryn
01-20-2005, 03:31 AM
<DIV> <P><FONT size=3>This is the information provided from the EQII website on info for Stormhold. As I read it it appears that the BBC was brought to it from Befallen in the commonlands. Moltor family was based out of Qeynos, an ansestor could have taken residence in Stormhold which would explain why Gynok is on the wall and the BBC is located here. This lore provided by Sony does clear it up for me.</FONT></P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _</P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _</P> <P><STRONG>History</STRONG></P> <P>Lord Chesgard was a legendary member of a long-dead knightly order known as the Knights of Thunder. It was during one of his many adventures, a crusade into a cursed bunker of the hills in the Commonlands, that Lord Chesgard would claim his greatest prize, the Bone Bladed Claymore. Unfortunately for all of his order, the sword would not be the only arcane force to return with Chesgard. Something dark and evil was beginning to take hold of him. <BR><BR>When Lord Chesgard returned to Qeynos, he oversaw the construction of a mighty keep called Stormhold, but evil began to slowly seep into his mind and the design of the citadel itself became twisted and corrupted. Eventually this evil rose to the surface, and all within Stormhold were lost.</P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __</P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __</P> <P> </P> <P>Demascus 17 Crusader of Faydark</P></DIV>

Grognar
01-21-2005, 06:14 PM
<DIV>I think probably what happened was that Stormhold was originally made to be Befallen and placed in the Commonlands, but then it was decided that the Fallen Gate would be a better zone and Befallen was moved to Antonica and renamed.</DIV>

Psyker3
01-22-2005, 02:41 AM
Actually if you read your lore on the elves. Befallen used to be part the throne of the elven empire. The place where innoruuk reached into our plane of existance and took the king and queen to convert them into his own twisted creations (dark elves). While it *may* have been used a lot later by knights of thunder this is....somewhat not likely. However Befallen is very much the remains of the elven empire. Not a temple of marr. There are books on it in EQ 1 and in the lore of EQ 1.

Tamat
01-22-2005, 08:02 AM
<DIV>Alot of these questions are in the interview I am currently working on. This interview will be finished hopefully next week and posted over at <A href="http://eq2.warcry.com" target=_blank>WarCry</A> along with a new Lore Q&A with Moorgard!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you,</DIV> <DIV>Tamat Damat</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eq2.warcry.com" target=_blank>WarCry</A> Site Manager</DIV>

TheWays
01-23-2005, 06:10 AM
<DIV>The only reason Befallen in in Antonica is for balance.  I imagine that as the release date grew nearer the devs started kinda freaking out and:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zone Builder: "Hey yanno where we were gonna put befallen? well how about we put the entrance to Fallen Gate there and move Befallen over to Antonica and call it something else"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Developer: "But Fallen Gate is in Nektulos, its the [Removed for Content] entrance to Neriak!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zone Builder: "I know, but we don't have enough time to design 2 new dungeons for the Qeynos side! so we give Qeynos befallen and we move Fallen Gate to the Commonlands.  Problem Solved!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Developer: "You're gonna burn in hell! What about the continuity!"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Raph Koster: "You're fired"</DIV>

calano
01-23-2005, 12:17 PM
<DIV>Well if the sword corrupted him and influenced lord chesguard which in turn twisted his designs for building of stormguard he probably built it to look like befallen on perpose which in my mind would fit in with that lore.</DIV>

iceriven2
01-23-2005, 11:30 PM
bah this is one of the reason's i never like EQOA at all. I know i cannot not throw any of that games lore completly out the window , but once again it seems thing do not add up. IN eq1 lore it is an old part of the elven empire while in EQOA lore its an outpost of mar. Yes it can be both, but in EQOA the elves are just getiing to Feyspire i find it highly unlikely the elves would just give it up. In reality we all know it was the DEV's who designed EQOA who overlooked what something really was. this is just like the gnome clockwork we see in lavastorm during eq1 times. in eq1 times those gnomes there are nothing more then a mining operation while eqoa THE Gnomes live around. There is no eq1 in game connection of there lost city being around, but once again in reality it seems EQOA DEV see gnomes and just think ok gnome 500 years in the past must live there b/c there their now. Srry going on and on. History seems to must have two stories in EQ b/c of the lack of forthought in the stories and lore.

Gaz1
01-25-2005, 06:37 AM
<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Perhaps the evil in the Bone Bladed Claymore was part of the spirit of old Gynok himself. As Chesgard was taken over by it, he started repeating the scrawlings on the wall. After all, the sword itself is sentient (evidenced by the 'examines you and finds you unworthy') when you try to grab it below level forty.</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Gaz123 on <span class=date_text>01-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:39 PM</span>

DukeOccam
01-25-2005, 08:24 PM
<DIV>Stormhold is Befallen. A woefully misplaced Befallin, but Befallen nonetheless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If any of you were looking forward to the release of EQ2 long enough ago, you may remember some E3 videos being released. I don't know where to find them now, but as luck would have it, I still have them on my computer. There are 2 files, E3_EQ02_01.asf and E3_EQ02_02.asf. If you have these or know where to find them still, load 'em up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seconds into the first video, the camera moves through what is obviously Stormhold. In the room with the spiral staircase, the camera starts at the top and lowers, while the demonstrator talks about how EQ2 was designed for the latest video card features, yadda yadda yadda. But then, as it reaches the bottom, he says this: (faithfully transcribed verbatim by yours truly while I watch it several times; emphasis mine)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Demonstrator: "If you happen to play Everquest, you might be familiar with this area. <STRONG>This is called Befallen.</STRONG> We've, ah, completely rebuilt it from the ground up, <STRONG>re-imagined it</STRONG>."</DIV> <DIV>Onlooker: "It looks a little different." </DIV> <DIV>Demonstrator: "It looks a little different."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are definitely some differences in the zone, such as a large cavern being accessible through a crack in the floor of one of the hallways, eventually leading to Lord Chesguard's tomb, without zoning. Also, Nagafen in the room with the zone to the library is slightly different than how it turned out. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But this was well before release, and specifically set up to show off lighting, texturing, etc, so there are bound to be some differences.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quite simply, it's not meant to be 100% accurate, judging from the demonstrator's remarks. Still, I'd prefer if it were anywhere near where it is supposed to be geographically, but this is technically an "alternate universe" version of Norrath. As much as I like continuity and dislike the alternate universe stuff, I have to admit that there are game balance issues that necessitate some pretty big changes.</DIV><p>Message Edited by DukeOccam on <span class=date_text>01-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:48 AM</span>

BLOODka
01-25-2005, 09:18 PM
<DIV>He never said "Alternate Universe" he said Parallel Universe meaning it is the future of EQ, but it is going on at the same time that EQ is still around. EQ2 simply is EQ1's future, only happening right now in a "parallel" universe (ie a different game) </DIV>

Aion
01-25-2005, 10:45 PM
<DIV>There were also 'preview' in PC Gamer magazine a year or two back that has specific screenshots of Befallen, and the interview/article talked about befallen to some extent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless, with the current game, what they did makes alot of sense. More was needed in the Antonica side of things and there was too much over in the Commonlands.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(That's not to say I would't love to see befallen reaamerg in an upcoming expansion or adventure pack, mostly for nostalgia if not anything else)</DIV>

Sandheaver
01-26-2005, 12:13 AM
<DIV>I would absolutely love to know how this story goes... why don't they just tell us?!  ARGH!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I had no idea how interesting video game lore could be until i started reading this forum over the weekend.  I'm freaking hooked now and I want to know more.  Thanks SOE.</DIV>

Mordock of the Highwynd
01-26-2005, 08:33 AM
Quinntus wrote:After spending a little time looking around I have begun to wonder where things from EQ1 are, or might be.I've noticec that new Blackburrow is much futher south that the previous incarnation, and unless Antonica rotated 90' clockwise, there is no way the new BB could or did ever lead to Everfrost.I've also found some strange ruins that look like part of a spire near the Windstalker villiage (east of the lake).I did find this on the web (http://eq2.warcry.com/scripts/images/view_image.phtml?id=47478&site=6<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />_______________________________________Different parts of Norrath have been rendered. Like our Earth, the Contenent has plate tectonics, which move VERY slowly. First off, it's been 500 years since EQlive, so that would give some time for the plates to move. Second off, when the rending and the shattering occured, the plates could have been altered severly. if you will notice the enchanted lands, Runnyeye is North west from Rivervale. In EQOA at least, it was exacly in the other direction, South East. This could easily explain Deathfist Citadel being where it is, the island of Antonica as far as Blackburrow being where it is, and the Enchanted Lands.Anyone care to debate this?<p>Message Edited by Mordock of the Highwynd on <span class=date_text>01-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:59 PM</span>

Aion
01-26-2005, 10:11 PM
In the original EQ, Runnyeye was north north west from Rivervale.

Scabbies
01-27-2005, 07:03 AM
<DIV>Stormhold is definately a temple/keep dedicated to Karana.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I need to look through my logs so I can post them for you all, but as I have done numerous quests in Stormhold you find out that the Lord of Stormhold found artifacts (BBC and others) from what is assumed to be Befallen and brought them home.  Unfortunately since these items had been tainted by Befallen for so long the curses that effected Befallen started to effect the Knights of Storm and turned them into undead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you do the Access Quest for the Tomb of Valor the librarian in Stormhold tells most of what happened.  (Quest name is "A Key to the Past")</DIV><p>Message Edited by Scabbies on <span class=date_text>01-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:04 PM</span>

froglockpalad
01-27-2005, 01:33 PM
<DIV>there were two white gnolls that spawned in BB one was necromancer in the snake pits the other was a ambassader who spawned in the comanders room if i remember.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>help us save the endangered frogloks from becoming extinct<BR><BR>go here to help http://bubbleman011.proboards2.com/index.cgi</DIV><p>Message Edited by froglockpaladin on <span class=date_text>01-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:40 AM</span>

RoneWindstre
01-27-2005, 05:17 PM
<DIV>I'm very glad some people have cleared this up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Befallen was infact part of the old Takish-hiz empire. Antonica used to be controled by elves long before the combine empire had control. When Sol Ro cursed the land and destroyed the elven forests in the name of balance due to the elves becoming to powerful, something also happened to Befallen and it was cursed forever. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know this to be atleast partly true because I was part of a huge scale roleplay story involving the Windstream family line and the Thexian family line in EQ1. We even had GMs helping out. We had a guild for a long time called Royal House Thex which was 2 seperate guilds both named exactly the same. One was Dark elven only, led by Christianos Thex (an actual player named after the EQ lore character alowed and encouraged by GMs) who was in EQ lore the elven queen during the creation of the elves by tunare until Innoruuk stole her and twisted her to his own design to create the Dark Elves. Now, the good side of the Royal House Thex guilds was led by King Tearis Thex, the king of the elven empire long escaped to Faydwer from the disasters on Antonica. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This connects to Befallen how? Well, during the reign of the elves on antonica, King Thex royal guard and army was lead by Commander Windstream. He was killed in Befallen by the curse during the time of balancing in the name of Ro. In EQ1 the boss of Befallen is Commander Windstream. He is part of the quest for the Thex Mallet. My character in EQ1 was based on this story and was named Rone Windstream as a descendant of Commander Windstream. GMs aloud this name as part of the ongoing RP story. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, Befallen is most certainly a small peice of Takish-hiz of old. The elven city destroyed and cursed forever. Now if Befallen was cleansed by Knights of Marr and turned into a temple to their god, or something like that, one can only guess. Much has happened in 500 years. I just wish they would have included a Commander Windstream in Stormhold, deep down <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I have yet to go that deep into the zone..perhaps he is creeping around still? One can only hope my long cursed and undead father is unleashed from this world though. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV>

Mordock of the Highwynd
01-27-2005, 07:39 PM
If your Befallen from EQlive is a peice of Takish`Hiz, then that place could easily be a frustrating dungeon called Tomb of Kings on Everquest, West of Freeport.

BLOODka
01-27-2005, 09:19 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>But as numerous times stated, EQOA lore doesnt count.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Squallaby
01-28-2005, 01:27 AM
Personally I've always thought that Eldar was just part of OLD Qeynos.. its the walls really to me.The Wall/wall ruins in Eldar look an AWFUL lot like the old outside Qeynos walls. Now why/how I dunno.. but its always had that look.

Mordock of the Highwynd
01-28-2005, 02:03 AM
Any lore on any major Everquest MMORPG counts. If you say a game that is set 500 years in the past of EQ1 doesn't count, that is like saying the whole Combine Empire and age of enlightenment doesn't count. Why you ask? Those two ages are in EQOA. Also in EQII, there are quests that have to do with events in EQOA. One quest talks about Fayspires, the elven city on EQOA.

BLOODka
01-28-2005, 08:32 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mordock of the Highwynd wrote:<BR>Any lore on any major Everquest MMORPG counts. If you say a game that is set 500 years in the past of EQ1 doesn't count, that is like saying the whole Combine Empire and age of enlightenment doesn't count. Why you ask? Those two ages are in EQOA. Also in EQII, there are quests that have to do with events in EQOA. One quest talks about Fayspires, the elven city on EQOA.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>No...the Combine Empire is already dead in EQOA. OA doesnt count because none of the lore matches up, there are things happening that should be happening more than just 500 years and plus the Erudites dont mix in well with Highbourne and all. If you really think about it, 500 years is nothing in historical timelines and the changes made between OA, Live and 2 are phenominal. Of course it is fantasy but even this is pushing it. If they went by the ORIGINAL LORE (EQLive) and based everything on appropriate timelines I wouldnt gripe so much</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Kilo
01-28-2005, 11:39 AM
<blockquote><hr>BLOODkane wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Mordock of the Highwynd wrote:<BR>Any lore on any major Everquest MMORPG counts. If you say a game that is set 500 years in the past of EQ1 doesn't count, that is like saying the whole Combine Empire and age of enlightenment doesn't count. Why you ask? Those two ages are in EQOA. Also in EQII, there are quests that have to do with events in EQOA. One quest talks about Fayspires, the elven city on EQOA.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>No...the Combine Empire is already dead in EQOA. OA doesnt count because none of the lore matches up, there are things happening that should be happening more than just 500 years and plus the Erudites dont mix in well with Highbourne and all. If you really think about it, 500 years is nothing in historical timelines and the changes made between OA, Live and 2 are phenominal. Of course it is fantasy but even this is pushing it. If they went by the ORIGINAL LORE (EQLive) and based everything on appropriate timelines I wouldnt gripe so much</DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>Actually, if you look at real-life recorded history, 500 years means a lot. It's not a lot on a geologic since, but on a humanic scale quite a bit of stuff happened in 500 years. Cutting the 500 years out would put as back to the middle of the Renaissance, a lot of stuff wouldn't exist today if 500 years of our history "didn't count".Sure, there's been a lot of screw ups on the lore between the games...but just cancelling a game out would affect the other games lore more than having a weird-at-sometimes plotline if you look at it that way.

Ennis
01-28-2005, 03:18 PM
Ok...You folks need a bit of perspective here for IMHO you all are being just a bit too "nitpicky".Take a look at this map http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/wytfliets_world_1598.jpgThen take a look at this map http://go.hrw.com/atlas/norm_htm/world.htmThere is about 500 years difference between the times these two maps were created. And *OMG* some areas are rotated almost 90 degrees! Some are NOT in the places they are *known* to be. Some are shown to be huge in the 1598 map (Australia) and some to be very small (Hudson's Bay) in comparision to what we know their size and shape to be. Some places are missing (Sri Lanka, Toe of the Italian boot), geographical features are totally out of whack (absence of the Great Lakes for one). Some places are big blobs (Japan, New Guinea) and are thousands of miles out of place.Can any of you make these two maps match up? No. Didn't think so. We have the same situation in EQ. You are trying to apply satellite/GPS technology to what are essentailly "ancient" maps. You are also trying to cram what are boxy "zones" into a real world geographical scenario. SoE did not spen millions of dollars to generate 21st century quality mapping for a game and understandably so. It is a fantasy game, not a lesson in cartography!Memo to square peg: You do not fit in round holes.

BLOODka
01-28-2005, 06:36 PM
<DIV>We are not judging by maps, we are judging by actual geocraphic locations. If Blackburrow (unless it moved) was pointing NORTH and had a tunnel to EverFrost in EQ1 then why does the one (new or old) in EQ2 point SOUTH and low and behold still have a darn tunnel to EF? No mapmaker would screw that up no matter HOW ancient they are. And the continent didnt just "shift" 180 degrees...Qeynos is still in the correct area as well as the connections to the rest of the Karanas.</DIV>

Mordock of the Highwynd
01-28-2005, 10:03 PM
Most of the lore does match up with EQOA. The Writ of the Wild happened in EQOA's time. Infact, Wegadas was an NPC for awhile there. The Tomb of Kings is west of Freeport and is a huge undead dungeon leftover from Takish'Hiz times. Anyway, if you think most of the lore doesn't match up, well then guess what, these are parallel timelines! They don't have to match up! They make parallel timelines so the developers for all the games can go anyway they want with the games. Some of the lore doesn't have to match up perfectly, but most of the lore does. Give me some lore that you think doesn't match up.

xyth
01-28-2005, 11:21 PM
<DIV>There's been allot of talk to as if the land has shifted, but what if the poles shifted? It's not uncommon for magnetic north and south to drift on a normal planet let alone one that has gone through as much as Norrath? Has anyone explored it from this viewpoint?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also as far as Stormhold/Befallen goes. It may have been fully intended to be Befallen during development and even during the demos but as was mentioned previously the devs may have decided to change it into Stormhold to help even out the content. It's much easier to change zone names, quests, and lore than to design an entirely new zone from scratch. We may yet see Befallen emerge in a future expansion but it sounds like Stormhold is intended to be a completely different dungeon. If any dungeon would be easy to obscure it would be Befallen, the enterance was a 3 foot wide tunnel in a sand dune, no way that made it through an earthquake.</DIV>

BLOODka
01-29-2005, 01:14 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mordock of the Highwynd wrote:<BR>Most of the lore does match up with EQOA. The Writ of the Wild happened in EQOA's time. Infact, Wegadas was an NPC for awhile there. The Tomb of Kings is west of Freeport and is a huge undead dungeon leftover from Takish'Hiz times. <BR><BR>Anyway, if you think most of the lore doesn't match up, well then guess what, these are parallel timelines! They don't have to match up! They make parallel timelines so the developers for all the games can go anyway they want with the games. Some of the lore doesn't have to match up perfectly, but most of the lore does. <BR><BR>Give me some lore that you think doesn't match up.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Parallel timelines means different times of the same universe happening at the same time (EQOA, EQ1, EQ2) not a completely different universe.

Kuragi
01-29-2005, 01:20 AM
<blockquote><hr>Silvane wrote:<DIV>Just curious, what happened to befallen? Shouldn't it be in the common lands somewhere?</div><hr></blockquote>I'm thinking it's still there, no one has discovered it yet (upcoming expansion). Or maybe this is the hidden vale?

Kodros
01-29-2005, 02:39 PM
Yeah so I just checked with "someone" and Qeynos was orginally planned to be in the same location as EQ1. Whether that changed later on in the development...I dunno.

Mordock of the Highwynd
01-29-2005, 08:58 PM
Look, I'm sorry if I misused one word. I think you pretty much got the point as that's all you complained about.

Kilo
01-30-2005, 03:22 AM
More evidence that Stormhold is Befallen, or the devs messed up:The "The Bone Bladed Claymore" quest states this:'I have taken the ancient sword from it's resting place in Befallen'You get the sword from Stormhold near the staircase. That's pretty concrete if you ask me.

Mordock of the Highwynd
01-30-2005, 05:40 AM
<DIV>Yeah, taht is some pretty concrete evidence.  Guess the devs just screwed up on this one.  </DIV>

Jaron
01-30-2005, 10:54 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BLOODkane wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>But as numerous times stated, EQOA lore doesnt count.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You don't have the authority to determine that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Your posts don't count.</FONT></DIV>

iceriven2
01-31-2005, 12:56 AM
<blockquote><hr>Kilopy wrote:More evidence that Stormhold is Befallen, or the devs messed up:The "The Bone Bladed Claymore" quest states this:'I have taken the ancient sword from it's resting place in Befallen'You get the sword from Stormhold near the staircase. That's pretty concrete if you ask me.<hr></blockquote>Have you read the story on the claymore. Chestguard the qeynos knight took it from befallen and had it with him when he made stormhold keep. And like in befallen it went all undead. So in someway its a copy of befallen yes but it actual gaming story its a differant place with its own story even if its not so unique its a DIFFERANT place.Also About blackburrow QEYNOS IS NORTH(destroyed was rebuild north of old loc) of its loc in EQ1 so yes the tunnel can be south of the city 500 years later. I know its a strech but a feasable one. Just picture this for a moment. One day the world u knew changes in a instant. All a sudden the ground shakes sky falls and everything is out of wack. Between the moon's falling pieces and the rest of the planet which was kept relatively save b/c of the GODS(they leave and the ground shakes oceans flood and sky rains and thunders and like hurrican winds all over) That can change a place are off center of where they were in eq1 is it likely for that ratical of a change nope BUT possible. land masses shift and with velious(spelling) somewhat melted, which cuases rising water lvls its very feasable for what is in eq2 can happen from what we know in eq1. So in the end its NOT LIKELY BUT FEASABLE with what we know here on earth, And on anther note to agu about exact loc in a world where cities can be relocated to a moon i don't see revalency.<p>Message Edited by iceriven2 on <span class=date_text>01-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:08 PM</span>

iceriven2
01-31-2005, 01:18 AM
EQOA i was one to take this history i say it doesn't match so its not true, but i was wrong. I been doing some quest and listening to what some NPC's are saying and EQOA lore comes up. Does it match with eq1 nope not at all but through human history when did we think something was so true(world was flat) then find out its not. Same here yes there is nothing in eq1 that says there was a highbourne but how many history books don't have all the fact. i would say all. WE known though several things that leaders for somereason or other keep info or events out of history for as long as possable. So unfortaly you have to think along these lines when it comes to EQOA when comparing EQ1 and EQ2. Events and history that was passed down became distorted and loss simple. just to show another real life example the city of Troy. Was in a greek epic stoy though for ages to not be real when in the 20th C was rediscovered rewriting history books, point in case EQ bring what really happens when consider "Lore" to a fantasy world yes its a game i wish it was more cut and dry but it is not. Plus the way all the "lore" is it keeps things wide open for new stories that are from the past( other word expansions)

BLOODka
01-31-2005, 09:43 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaron95 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BLOODkane wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>But as numerous times stated, EQOA lore doesnt count.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You don't have the authority to determine that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Your posts don't count.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Actually they do, EQlive was out long before OA, EQOA's lore did not match up with EQLive, therefore 3/4 of their lore is faulty and should not be taken into any account. There that wasnt hard <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kailb
01-31-2005, 10:08 AM
<DIV>Ok, my humble opinion on the Stormhold/Befallen issue is this....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Devs create the Befallen Dungeon to be placed in the appropriate area.</DIV> <DIV>Devs realize they need a dungeon on Antonica and don't have time to build one from scratch.</DIV> <DIV>Devs place Befallen Dungeon on Antonica and rename it Stormhold.</DIV> <DIV>Devs write lore to tie Befallen and Stormhold together and explain why there's a dungeon in Antonica that looks a whole lot  like Befallen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But hey, what do I know.</DIV>

Kilo
01-31-2005, 10:41 AM
<blockquote><hr>iceriven2 wrote:<blockquote><hr>Kilopy wrote:More evidence that Stormhold is Befallen, or the devs messed up:The "The Bone Bladed Claymore" quest states this:'I have taken the ancient sword from it's resting place in Befallen'You get the sword from Stormhold near the staircase. That's pretty concrete if you ask me.<hr></blockquote>Have you read the story on the claymore. Chestguard the qeynos knight took it from befallen and had it with him when he made stormhold keep. And like in befallen it went all undead. So in someway its a copy of befallen yes but it actual gaming story its a differant place with its own story even if its not so unique its a DIFFERANT place.Also About blackburrow QEYNOS IS NORTH(destroyed was rebuild north of old loc) of its loc in EQ1 so yes the tunnel can be south of the city 500 years later. I know its a strech but a feasable one. Just picture this for a moment. One day the world u knew changes in a instant. All a sudden the ground shakes sky falls and everything is out of wack. Between the moon's falling pieces and the rest of the planet which was kept relatively save b/c of the GODS(they leave and the ground shakes oceans flood and sky rains and thunders and like hurrican winds all over) That can change a place are off center of where they were in eq1 is it likely for that ratical of a change nope BUT possible. land masses shift and with velious(spelling) somewhat melted, which cuases rising water lvls its very feasable for what is in eq2 can happen from what we know in eq1. So in the end its NOT LIKELY BUT FEASABLE with what we know here on earth, And on anther note to agu about exact loc in a world where cities can be relocated to a moon i don't see revalency.<p>Message Edited by iceriven2 on <span class=date_text>01-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:08 PM</span><hr></blockquote>So you're saying there's a Befallen, but then a clone of Befallen that's not really Befallen but Stormhold and the claymore is in the clone of Befallen called Stormhold but it still thinks it's in Befallen? Right.

Jaron
01-31-2005, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BLOODkane wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaron95 wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BLOODkane wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>But as numerous times stated, EQOA lore doesnt count. </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>You don't have the authority to determine that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Your posts don't count.</FONT></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Actually they do, EQlive was out long before OA, EQOA's lore did not match up with EQLive, therefore 3/4 of their lore is faulty and should not be taken into any account. There that wasnt hard <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>By that logic, none of EQ2's lore should be taken into account, since obviously so much of the lore here doesn't match up with EQLive either.  </P> <P>Destroyed wizard portals in places they never existed in Live?</P> <P>Blackburrow and its Everfrost tunnel?</P> <P>Nektulos Forest to the west of Commonlands?</P> <P>Befallen/Stormhold controversy?</P> <P>And the list goes on.  Maybe we should just not even bother with any of it, since none of it matches up perfectly with <STRIKE>your immaculate vision of the lore</STRIKE> EQLive. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Jaron95 on <span class=date_text>01-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:00 PM</span>

iceriven2
01-31-2005, 11:33 PM
<blockquote><hr>Kilopy wrote:<blockquote><hr>iceriven2 wrote:<blockquote><hr>Kilopy wrote:More evidence that Stormhold is Befallen, or the devs messed up:The "The Bone Bladed Claymore" quest states this:'I have taken the ancient sword from it's resting place in Befallen'You get the sword from Stormhold near the staircase. That's pretty concrete if you ask me.<hr></blockquote>Have you read the story on the claymore. Chestguard the qeynos knight took it from befallen and had it with him when he made stormhold keep. And like in befallen it went all undead. So in someway its a copy of befallen yes but it actual gaming story its a differant place with its own story even if its not so unique its a DIFFERANT place.Also About blackburrow QEYNOS IS NORTH(destroyed was rebuild north of old loc) of its loc in EQ1 so yes the tunnel can be south of the city 500 years later. I know its a strech but a feasable one. Just picture this for a moment. One day the world u knew changes in a instant. All a sudden the ground shakes sky falls and everything is out of wack. Between the moon's falling pieces and the rest of the planet which was kept relatively save b/c of the GODS(they leave and the ground shakes oceans flood and sky rains and thunders and like hurrican winds all over) That can change a place are off center of where they were in eq1 is it likely for that ratical of a change nope BUT possible. land masses shift and with velious(spelling) somewhat melted, which cuases rising water lvls its very feasable for what is in eq2 can happen from what we know in eq1. So in the end its NOT LIKELY BUT FEASABLE with what we know here on earth, And on anther note to agu about exact loc in a world where cities can be relocated to a moon i don't see revalency.<p>Message Edited by iceriven2 on <span class=date_text>01-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:08 PM</span><hr></blockquote>So you're saying there's a Befallen, but then a clone of Befallen that's not really Befallen but Stormhold and the claymore is in the clone of Befallen called Stormhold but it still thinks it's in Befallen? Right.<hr></blockquote>ummmm yeah u might have it right i know it confuses me a little. Stormhold my have been a copy of befallen but in game lore says they are two seperate zones.

Mordock of the Highwynd
02-01-2005, 03:07 AM
Look blood, I tried to be as nice as I could with telling you that you were wrong about lore, but now I'll be blunt. You obviously have no earthly clue how lore works in any way at all. In every game with lore, more lore is brought up that was never known before when there are expansions and whatnot. EQlive was made from whatever vision Scott Smelding (sp?) had at that time. He comes up with more ideas along the way and puts them into effect on expansions, thus, Highborne, Fayspires, and other things.

BLOODka
02-01-2005, 09:02 AM
<DIV>Uhh, you know the devs for EQlive and EQOA were for the most part completely different, EQ2 had a lot of the old devs. Yeah a lot of EQ2's lore doesnt match up but most does. EQOA on the other hand is way far off, sure there are some simularities, but for the most part it's folly.</DIV>

cartha
02-01-2005, 11:01 AM
<DIV> <DIV>I read through a lot of the posts on this thread and I admit I'm pretty bummed about the sloppy layout of some of the zones, particularly Antonica.  But I don't really think Blackburrow is in the wrong spot at all.  After reading this post I was pretty annoyed by it, but then I thought about the difference between EQ1 and EQ2 and Qeynos Hills and Antonica and realized something.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Antonica isn't messed up. The cardinal directions are.  When you left Qeynos in EQ1, Blackburrow was straight out, and to the right.  In EQ2, when you leave Qeynos, Blackburrow is straight out and to the right.  It's still in the same relative position.  This would also imply that the Shattered Vale is probably supposed to be Surefall Glade, and I'd buy that considering there's a druid ring in it (even though there wasn't one in Surefall, but hey...druids hung out there).  Therefore, I don't think they messed up the locations, they messed up the orientation of the whole zone.  What's WEST in Antonica ought to be NORTH.  The whole zone is 90 degrees off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the other stuff like Neriak being in the wrong place, I dunno.  I've never been in the Commonlands.  However, the thing about Stormhold/Befallen being out of place, I think that's just nitpicking.  I'm 100% sure that it <EM>was </EM>originally intended to be Befallen, but then for whatever reason they decided to move it to Antonica, and thus make up some weak story about why it's not actually Befallen after all.  While incredibly lazy and lame...eh, /shrug -- it's good enough for me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am pretty let down in the Dev team for blowing this sort of stuff.  I can appreciate them wanting to make it very different from EQ1 and not simply rehash old geography with new graphics, but some of this stuff should have been a no-brainer.  I actually find this aspect of the game the most dissapointing of all.  There should have been a lot more continuity in both zones and lore if you ask me.</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by carthago on <span class=date_text>01-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:03 PM</span>

Xalbus
02-02-2005, 03:04 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Johis wrote:<BR>I was initially confused about this at first, too. I can't really say anything about the Qeynos side because I'm from Freeport, but here is the deal with Fallen Gate.<BR><BR>The loyalists to the Thexian dynasty began an expedition to uncover the remains of the beloved Thexian city, Neriak. They searched for years and years and years after the Shattering had ended, but it was to no avail. Eventually, their searches took them to the Commonlands of Freeport, where they unearthed a portion of an ancient, foreign outpost of Neriak. The Thexian Loyalists dug a tunnel deep into the Earth in the hopes that this tunnel will lead them to the buried city, but their search was cut short by the inhabitants of the Fallen Gate. The original reason for locking Fallen Gate was to keep Neriak safe. The Thex queen (whose full name I can't remember) locked the gate behind her when the Teir'Dal first established Neriak. If you go deep enough in Fallen Gate (which, if you will note, goes northward to where Neriak SHOULD BE), you will find a locked door. This is the door that Tundis N'Oxyle wants you to find when you do the Key to the Fallen Gate quest. This door is the door that the Thex dynasty locked so many years ago. If you find a key to this door, I expect you will be able to enter Neriak, though it may now be called by a different name. I believe this key is given by The Sarge after completing his access quest. I could be wrong, I haven't actually done it. It doesn't make sense that he would have the key because he is a gnome, not a Thexian, so I'm either wrong or we have more storyline to uncover <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This may have been mentioned in 6 pages but I am not done reading</FONT></P> <P>FG is Foreign Quarter. it was sealed off from the rest of Neriak when the Leatherfoot Raiders attacked after all the DE warriors where sent off to defend Nek Forest (this is part of the Cauldron Hollow access lore).</FONT></P> <P>The set up of FQ is very similar to FG in EQ2 the first gate is very much the same first gate in EQ1, the area to the right that used to lead to the Ogre/Troll area has been blocked by a cave in (in the shadowy room). Obviously, this being a new game the set up wont match 100% as the area is an enhanced dungeon experience rather than the small city zone not of EQ1 that was never meant to be used for much more than selling and banking. </FONT></P> <P>The door at the end of Neriak leads to the Sanctum of Bone not Neriak, at the very end of that zone is the Seal of Neriak that can be broken, but I do not know if there is anything beyond that (most likely this will be an adventure pack).</FONT></P> <P>None of the zones will be 100 accurate with EQ1, for one thing EQ 1 zones where small and confined EQ2 is open and spread out (Example is Rivervale, its a huge sprawling town as compared to the small village in EQ1) and nothing will match 100% otherwise its just EQ1 with prettier graphics. So you need to suspend your disbelief and accept a few oddities in the location of things in game. </FONT><BR></P>

Xalbus
02-02-2005, 03:05 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vidruand wrote:<BR> <DIV>I miss Crushbone</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Don't, if Runnyeye is any indication Emperor Crush the 4th will be level 60 packing a nuclear bomb lol.<BR>

Xalbus
02-02-2005, 03:13 AM
<DIV>IIRC the leader of the Knights went on a quest for the BBC which would explain why its in Stormhold and not Befallen.</DIV>

Xalbus
02-02-2005, 03:42 AM
<DIV>Here is a thought</DIV> <DIV>The BBC is sentient, it is quested for by the Knight and taken from Befallen. It then twists its keeper to its own dark desires, Chessguard becomes obsessed with Befallen, to the point of designing Stormhold to be a clone of Befallen at the direction of the BBC. Then the same thing happens there as in Befallen.</DIV> <DIV>IRL I think the most likely explanation is that SH was meant to be BF but was moved and the lore was tossed in to explain it away. After all they make corrections to quest wording all the time. Because the quest says Befallen doesnt make it 100% concrete, they could patch it tomorrow to say Stormhold which throws the evidence out the window.</DIV>

Xalbus
02-02-2005, 03:55 AM
<DIV>As for EQOA and EQL lore, as I said before in another thread, in terms of RP value, stories, legends and histories become changed and distorted as they are retold, new tellers put their twist on it, histories are skewed to favor the faction of the writer, etc. Especially in a time before digital media, which EQ is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Many inconsitencies can be easily explained away as being changed through the decades as its told and retold. Erud becomes 1 man when in fact he might have been several men, cities are omitted from the telling because their legend might inspire people when inspiration is not wanted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What happens then in a sense is that EQOA is the "Reality" of what happened and the history in EQ:L is the result of 500 years of distortions and retellings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take King Arthur for instance. Common legend holds he is 1 man, modern belief is skewed towards him being an amalgam of several men who's accomplishments are combined to create an inspirational perfect King. This story is used to direct people's beliefs and actions to a certain path (Chivalry) as they are encouraged to "Be Like Arthur". Think of it as ancient propoganda. Its easier to follow 1 man than a group of men. 1 man has a clear vision and path in front of him. A group has their overall agenda but each member has his own sub agenda. Its easier to rally the masses to 1 man than 4 men.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Much the way Kennedy became a great president as his "legend" expanded, He becomes a visionary who led us to the moon and promoted "Ask not what your country can do for you..." (Wow there is a blatant peice of propganda id I ever saw one) rather than a man who A) Cheated on his wife B) Led is into Vietnam and C) almost started a nuclear war and D) had questionable ties to organized crime.</DIV> <DIV>So the Highbourne who fled become the Erudites, the leaders of the exodus become Erud the superhuman uniter and saviour of his people.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Granted my knowledge of EQOA lore is limited BUT its not about the specifics of the lore but about why the lore might not match 100%. We see lore as gospel truth, we are used to digital media that can perfectly preserve the speaches for the future. But what about lore from the 1300s? If we knew 100% of everything that went on, we would not need historians. We have speculation, commonly accepted theories and rumor. In game the lore from EQOA would be considerably distorted in EQ:L so you cannot take EQ:L lore as 100 truth, same as EQ2 lore of EQL is not always 100%.</DIV>

Kodros
02-03-2005, 08:50 PM
I have a whacky idea about the Qeynos/BB thing. I just noticed that Qeynos is an island. Would it be somehow possible if it broke off from the south during the shattering and was pushed north?

Hagran
02-06-2005, 08:43 PM
<DIV>Ok here goes EG is the old entrance to Qeynos (North Qeynos) dont believe me go check it i checked it out with my maps of myrist book and the structure is exactly the same so now we just need to try and fix the bb thing hope this helps</DIV>

Thax
02-08-2005, 01:12 AM
<DIV>The geography of Antonica bothers me a bit as well, but I wouldn't worry about it too much.  Have any of you with EQ1 accounts checked out the new Lavastorm?  Most of the locations aren't even in the same place.  Najena is in the same place and I think the druid ring is.  Solusek's Eye, Nagafen's Lair, and the Temple of Solusek Ro are in completely different places.  Point being, don't go too much by the exact geography of the original game, it might change anyway.</DIV>

Ruil
02-09-2005, 12:22 AM
i have aread alot of loer on EQ2 and EQL so i know a ok amount about the lore. From what i would guess is the blackburrow gnolls moved out of the old bb for some reason and made a new bb where it is know being stupid gnolls they probly tried to dig to everfrost but failed.Qeynos has probly moved in a direction from its orignal placement in EQL most likely not alot. Now Stormhold is not Befallan the knight of thunder built the foretress to combat some evil, defeted it then a new evil arous and they fought that but while they were fighting the old evil came back and got them, i read this from doin a quest in Stormhold, i'm guessing it looks like befallen cause lord chessguard got the BBC from befallen and it influenced i wouldnt be surprised if the BBC thinks his new home is Befallen thats probly why it says that when you grab it. About the wizard spires they probly built newer versions, i did however see some of those ogre monuments and what not that used to be in EQL around in Ferrott and in Thundering steppes.thats really all i have to say and my thougths on this matter, that and i think my post count is 1 now.

SageGaspar
05-01-2006, 02:40 AM
I realize this is the necro from hell, but just found something going back through the newb quests. For Vale of the Shattering, Rask Helstot lists Vale of the Shattering as being 200-300 (some unit) North of the "old blackburrow entrance." It even lists it in the quest descriptor. Which means that the old blackburrow entrance is somewhere along that eastern wall to the south of Vale of the Shattering. Now to find it... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

Cusashorn
05-01-2006, 07:48 PM
<DIV>I do believe old blackburrow has been completely 100% destroyed, and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. you're right this is a necro from hell.</DIV>

SageGaspar
05-01-2006, 07:59 PM
<div></div>Hehe, I remembered a post from not too long ago where people were still trying to orient Blackburrow and thought it was a copout or the devs hadn't really thought through the move and just slapped an explanation together, but I couldn't find it so I necroed this one up.The fact that it's mentioned in this quest dialogue just sorta cemented it for me as a fully planned and implemented design decision. The location description almost makes me wonder if Stormhold was built over Old Blackburrow, but that's just weird idle speculation.<div></div><p>Message Edited by SageGaspar on <span class=date_text>05-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:59 AM</span>

Wilde_Night
05-04-2006, 04:18 PM
<P>Wow.. that was a long and interesting read.</P> <P>This actually came up about two nights ago in my guild ooc chat.. about Befallen vs Stormhold.  If you recall Gynok in Befallen was cursed and attached to Befallen and could not leave.  We theorize that it was the claymore he was bound to.  Thus, when Chestguard stole the claymore from Befallen, Gynok went with it.  This explains why, when you do the BBC Heritage, you have to kill Gynok to recieve the BBC intact.</P> <P>And I really do hope that one day they reopen Befallen in CL. There are plenty of places to put in in the mountains or.. heh.. even in the wasp mound, since that is just one big sand dune.  And I know there is a Najena in Lavastorm, but the entrance is caved in.</P>

Cusashorn
05-04-2006, 06:59 PM
<DIV>Nope. Stormhold is Befallen. They had to give both Antonica and Commonlands an upper Teens Low 20's undead dungeon just like Fallen Gate, so they came up with Stormhold.</DIV>

Pahya
05-04-2006, 10:08 PM
<P>Necro yes, but thank you! Very interesting read that I wouldn't have found otherwise.</P> <P> </P> <P>Makes we want to play EQ >.></P>

DruVir
05-05-2006, 12:34 AM
Alright, .. I've read way too many posts in way too many forums about all this. Technically, by an out of character standpoint, Befallen was created, and later renamed Stormhold. I remember from back when EQII screenshots came out that they all said it was Befallen, .. but it looks exactly like Stormhold. They had to switch the dungeon over to Qeynos, just for the sake of dungeon crawl. In game sense, the two are completely seperate places. I don't care what people are saying about "this one word in this quest says this". The fact is, is that it's already said that the BBC was taken from Befallen, still corrupt, and was brought to Stormhold where the sword corrupted the entire zone. Why does the quest for the BBC say that you removed it from Befallen? Could be two reasons. One, .. Sony messed up the text and never changed "Befallen" to "Stormhold". Two, .. the sword, being corrupt and possessed, believes it is still in its resting place of Befallen. Who knows? BlackBurrow. It's been already said quite some time ago by the dev's that it indeed has collapsed. Originally, in EQ, they wanted to implement a zone between BlackBurrow and Everfrost, .. one that consisted of many tunnels and the like. According to the dev's, when BlackBurrow collapsed, it was rebuilt. It seems the Gnolls in EQ had more caverns excavated than is seen, .. and that these tunnels were rebuilt after the Shattering, uncovering one of the many, many entrances into Everfrost. Lastly, the wizard spires. The wizard spires seen today have been reported not to be those of the Combine, but of the Quellithule. Between EQ and EQII, spire making became known, at least to a minor extent. More than likely they have no link to Luclin, or Kunark, and worked on their own wavelength. The Combine spires, though not able to be destroyed may have either been lost in the ground, water, or even altered by the Quellithule for their own purposes. But the fact is that most, if not all, the spires, are the ones created by this sect, and not the Combine. Probably to make up for the fact they couldn't zip around to each city via Knowledge books any longer. They were lazy so they just made them everywhere. <div></div>

SageGaspar
05-05-2006, 12:58 AM
Ya, people who say Stormhold Is Befallen are being inaccurate, since we're on a History and Lore forum. The entire place's history and lore, including the quests within, are based around the lore about the Knights of Thunder etc.Blackburrow I just found interesting because a relatively obscure quest mentions the old entrance being some unit of distance directly south from the Vale of the Shattering. For people trying to orient Antonica correctly this should help some, and I'd also be interested if there's any visible rubble (it's an area I haven't spent a lot of time staring at the cliff face, hehe). <div></div>

Skratttt
05-05-2006, 01:48 PM
<hr size="2" width="100%">Yup What is Zek now used to be jagedpine forest.....if you dont beleive me do the hasten bootstrutters guide to Old Grove....Read the noticeable differences of pre orc near paradise lush conditions .........the orcs as you can see have chopped down the trees and are in direct conflict with the few remaining (oh suprise suprise) greenhoods, who are druids/rangers?Whoever did that overlap is masterfull <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>

KniteShayd
05-05-2006, 09:12 PM
<P>For the last time, Stormhold IS Befallen.  because of zone imbalances it was put in Antonica and given lore so that it fits.</P> <P>Geographically, BB doesn't fit by compass direction. Then again Qeynos hills was north of Qeynos. In EQ2, it is west of Qeynos.  Layoutwise, BB is correct.  And locationally, i would be convinced by the Shattered Vale being old surefall.  But compasswise, it doesnt fit.  behind the shattered vale lay TS, not Surefall.</P> <P>Now it has been said that Zek is in fact a detached Surefall and Jaggedpine.  Since Zek lies to the north, this is geographically accururate.  which does indeed make me ponder the theory that SH is part of an old BB tunnel.  It would make sense as the library entrance lies to the NE of Antonica, which if it was a BB tunnel, it could attach to the old BB location that would have led to Everfrost.</P> <P>Locationwise as well, the cabin on the way to BB is in a correct spot, but not compasswise to the EQ1 map.</P> <P>Also, the catacombs wer accessable by diving in the waters around Qeynos, here in EQ2, you cant zone in there from any body of water, only zone in man holes.</P>

Cusashorn
05-05-2006, 09:15 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> KniteShayd wrote:<BR> <P>Geographically, BB doesn't fit by compass direction. Then again Qeynos hills was north of Qeynos. In EQ2, it is west of Qeynos.  Layoutwise, BB is correct.  And locationally, i would be convinced by the Shattered Vale being old surefall.  But compasswise, it doesnt fit.  behind the shattered vale lay TS, not Surefall.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It's also been stated both by developers and in-game sources that the original blackburrow was destroyed, and the Gnolls rebuilt in a new location, while maintaining their traditions and heritage by building it in the same manner as the old one was. Even going so far as to making a Collapsed Tunnel to Everfrost.

SageGaspar
05-06-2006, 01:59 AM
<div><blockquote><hr>KniteShayd wrote:<div></div> <p>For the last time, Stormhold IS Befallen.  because of zone imbalances it was put in Antonica and given lore so that it fits.</p> <p>Geographically, BB doesn't fit by compass direction. Then again Qeynos hills was north of Qeynos. In EQ2, it is west of Qeynos.  Layoutwise, BB is correct.  And locationally, i would be convinced by the Shattered Vale being old surefall.  But compasswise, it doesnt fit.  behind the shattered vale lay TS, not Surefall.</p> <p>Now it has been said that Zek is in fact a detached Surefall and Jaggedpine.  Since Zek lies to the north, this is geographically accururate.  which does indeed make me ponder the theory that SH is part of an old BB tunnel.  It would make sense as the library entrance lies to the NE of Antonica, which if it was a BB tunnel, it could attach to the old BB location that would have led to Everfrost.</p> <p>Locationwise as well, the cabin on the way to BB is in a correct spot, but not compasswise to the EQ1 map.</p> <p>Also, the catacombs wer accessable by diving in the waters around Qeynos, here in EQ2, you cant zone in there from any body of water, only zone in man holes.</p><hr></blockquote>What you've said implies that it is *not* Befallen. Yes, the zone was moved for OOC reasons to Antonica, but if we're talking lore, it's not really Befallen. Just like Blackburrow isn't really Blackburrow.The zone layout is still wonky even with that, though. From game lore, Old Blackburrow Entrance is south of the Shattered Vale (which is what I was talking about before). If you look at Qeynos ( http://eq2.gamepressure.com/maps_qeynos_all.asp ) you can see the old entrance to NQ on the map, pointing northwest in Elddar Grove. I can't think of a pre-shattering orientation that would put the location south of Shattered Vale to the northeast with respect to that entrance unless the Qeynos island flipped completely around. Anyway, the fact that Qeynos was decimated and completely rebuilt explains the changes to the catacombs, though I would've much preferred them to remain intact.Anyway, I accept that the maps aren't exact, they're just close enough.</div>

Tazyn Youngbeast
05-07-2006, 12:06 AM
<DIV>read the OP, ive been wondering about where all the stuff has gone, i thought eq2 would be based upon players rediscovering the shattered lands, i thought that a player would discover faydark and be remembered on the server that he found on it but once again, i have been disappointed, so many zones from eq1 are not in eq2. eq2 needs a rediscovering expansion where they  have overland zones that lead to some new places.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

SageGaspar
05-07-2006, 01:02 AM
Actually, wait, I'm sorry, on that map I linked to it's pointing southeast, not northwest. I forgot the orientation. So yeah, Antonica would be shifted so that east is north basically. The relative orientation of everything makes a lot more sense then. I wouldn't be too worried about specifics, obviously everything from EQ1 was changed in proportion and size and orientation, but the way it is laid out does make sense.<div></div>

Ceeamee
05-07-2006, 01:42 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tazyn Youngbeast wrote:<BR> <DIV>read the OP, ive been wondering about where all the stuff has gone, i thought eq2 would be based upon players rediscovering the shattered lands, i thought that a player would discover faydark and be remembered on the server that he found on it but once again, i have been disappointed, so many zones from eq1 are not in eq2. eq2 needs a rediscovering expansion where they  have overland zones that lead to some new places.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I remember back in beta when the Devs would announce when a group had found specific zones like Everfrost and such.  That was alot of fun.  My guess is that they don't have the time for such things anymore.  They used to do those things back in EQLive also when it first came out.  All sorts of things got server announced.  Server firsts, marriages and even a particular banning. Good times!

Aimor N`Velahr
05-07-2006, 10:12 AM
<DIV>The Bonebladed Claymore was moved from Befallen and the Knight who took it created Stormhold. As Stormhold was being "Made" the swords curse seeped into the Knight and he directed creation of Stormhold to be similar in look and feel to Befallen, his long cursed home. When the sword completly overtook him, slew all of the knights, raised them from the dead, and wrote his name on the walls, aka "Redrum" or "Gynok". The curses location was moved because it was the resting place of the sword.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are similarities in relation to one another, of course, but it is shaped by the sword. From a lore standpoint this is perfectly acceptable to me. They look and feel similar because the cursed spirit of Gynok within the sword who was guiding the creating of Stormhold compelled him to create it in such a way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Aimor N'Velahr</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.housevelahr.com" target=_blank>House Velahr</A></DIV>