EoF Defiler AA's. Anyone know them?

[ArraSilverhawk]

<DIV>Didn't see a post on it and not sure the NDA has been lifted but could anyone post the Defiler AA line for EoF?</DIV>

[Scow]

<DIV>I don't think the NDA has been lifted yet. But Im sure as soon as they do you will see posts of them. usually the NDA will be lifted maybe 7-10 days before release.</DIV>

[Facedown]

Im sure they will be majorly disapointing anyways. Im not getting my hopes up.<div></div>

[Lee Hor]

Im hoping that we get a nice AOE or Group mana tap - not that we realy need it but would be fun! Also i would like to see a Self Revive spell say reusable every 1 hour but can use it anytime, i.e not like the druids one where it auto revives you.But i would assume that as SOE want to get ppl to reroll new characters the majority of new "AA's" will just be cut power costs and reuse/recast timers etc.<div></div>

[I-wo]

They are very likey to be dissappointing<div></div>

[overfloat]

<P>NDA is still in effect, but I'm sure someone will have a summary of them posted as soon as it's lifted.</P> <P>Bear in mind any of them could change either before or shortly after launch.</P>

[ZionXIII]

<DIV>I am not in beta so it's just rumors that I've heard, but the way I understand it, our new AAs won't be new abilities so much as abilities that effect our current spells. Improves recast time, amount of dmg, amount of power used, that kind of thing. But who knows, like I said I have nothing to base this on other than rumors. </DIV>

[MalkorGodchyld]

<P><FONT size=2>    I'm definately not holding my breath for anything good or God forbid...creative & in line with our class.   But who knows maybe SoE will surprise us this time :smileyvery-happy:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>    ~ Marius Darkchyld ~    70 Defiler</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>        ~ Llfe or' Death ~      36 Warden</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>                     NAGAFEN</FONT></P>

[TheRealMo]

<div><blockquote><hr>ZionXIII wrote:<div>I am not in beta so it's just rumors that I've heard, but the way I understand it, our new AAs won't be new abilities so much as abilities that effect our current spells. Improves recast time, amount of dmg, amount of power used, that kind of thing. But who knows, like I said I have nothing to base this on other than rumors. </div><hr></blockquote>That seems very lame and therefore I'd bet the farm that is what we get. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></div>

[PhozFa]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheRealMoon wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>ZionXIII wrote:<div>I am not in beta so it's just rumors that I've heard, but the way I understand it, our new AAs won't be new abilities so much as abilities that effect our current spells. Improves recast time, amount of dmg, amount of power used, that kind of thing. But who knows, like I said I have nothing to base this on other than rumors. </div><hr></blockquote>That seems very lame and therefore I'd bet the farm that is what we get. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></div><hr></blockquote>I'll try not to break the NDa so let me try to say this.New abilities are nice and all but i think i have like 6-8 hotbars on both my bruiser and defiler. While i want new flavor to the same old raid/groupage Somethings got to give right?Before going into beta when i heard of new AAs the main thing i wanted was the ability to specialize my class. Every class has certain aspecs i wanted to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] strengths in those. The only drawback really to those is the fact every raiding toon would have the same and every solo toon would have the same. lose lose situation i think. Oh well we'll see the reaction once the nda is lifted</div>

[Celestian_]

<div></div>The NDA has been lifted.I would go into a long post about all the AA's but I can sum up 80% of them by saying "bleh".The best line will get you at 15 points canni that takes 25% of your health and gives you back 10% of your mana at the reuse rate of every 30 seconds.The other abilitie... I'll try to just get SS's later and link them. Right now I am raiding and dont have much time but really the only useful line is the one I just mentioned. The rest just aren't up to snuff. We've been trying to point this out in beta but so far nothing has been tweaked.Actually I'll just post what Erage did in the forums about it. I don't think anything has changed but as I said I'll try and get SS's of the abilities later.Decaying is the line I mentioned already.Posted by Erage:----------------------------------------<div><font size="3">AA lines as of 10/26:</font></div> <div><font size="4"><strong></strong></font> </div> <div><font size="4"><strong><u>Prevention</u></strong></font></div> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Torpid Chant: </strong>Improves the reuse speed of Torpid Chant by 10 secs/rank. <em>50 secs at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Eidolic Ward: </strong>Improves the reuse speed of Eidolic Ward by 30 secs/rank. <em>150 secs at max rank 5</em>.<font color="#ffff33">Works</font> </font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Spirit Avenger: </strong>Improves the reuse speed of Spirit Avenger by 10 secs/rank. <em>50 secs at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Purulence: </strong>Improves the reuse speed of Purulence by 30 secs/rank. <em>150 secs at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Voice of the Ancestors: </strong>Improves the reuse speed of Voice of the Ancestors by 3 secs/rank. <em>15 secs at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Preventative Medicines: </strong>Increases heal and ward amount by 3%/rank of all emergency heals that have a long reuse time. <em>15% at Max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ff3300">Bugged? Not affecting ward/heal of Spirit Avenger.</font></font></div></blockquote> <div><strong><font size="4"><u>Decaying</u></font></strong></div> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Putrefy: </strong>Increases the damage of Putrefy by 3%/rank. <em>15% at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Fulginous Dominion: </strong>Increases the damage of Fulginous Dominion by 3%/rank. <em>15% at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Caliginous Corruption: </strong>Increases the damage of Caliginous Corruption by 3%/rank. <em>15% at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Maelstrom: </strong>Reduces the duration of Maelstrom by 3 secs/rank, allowing it's damage intervals to occur faster. <em>15 secs at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Forced Cannibalize: </strong>Reduces the duration of Forced Cannibalize by 2 secs/rank, allowing it's damage intervals to occur faster. <em>10 secs at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Defile: </strong>Reduces the duration of Defile by 1 sec/rank, allowing it's damage intervals to occur faster. <em>5 secs at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Cannibalize: </strong>Converts 25% self health into 10% self power (1 sec casting time, 20 sec recast). <em>Max rank 1 (5 points)</em> <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div></blockquote> <div><strong><font size="4"><u>Potence</u></font></strong></div> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Bane of Protection: </strong>Increases trigger chance of Bane of Protection by 1%/rank. <em>5% at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ff9933">Unknown. Can't see proc rate % for spell.</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Crystallize Spirit: </strong>Increases trigger chance of Crystallize Spirit by 10%/rank. <em>50% at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Tendrils of Horror I: </strong>Increases trigger chance of Tendrils of Horror by 1%/rank. <em>5% at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ff9933">Unknown. Can't see proc rate % for spell.</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Dire Invective: </strong>Increases trigger chance of Dire Invective by 1%/rank. <em>5% at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ff9933">Unknown. Can't see proc rate % for spell.</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Hexation: </strong>Increases resistability by 15% of target's spells and reduces trigger percentages by 20% of their original value. (1 sec cast, 36 duration, 2 min recast, 12% harder resistability).  <em>Max rank 1 (5 points) </em><font color="#ff9933">Untested, but the resistability for landing this debuff is less than an adept 3 (12% harder).</font></font></div></blockquote> <div><strong><font size="4"><u>Cursing</u></font></strong></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Ruinous Anathema: </strong>Increase disease and poison resist reduction by 3%/rank. <em>15% at max rank 5 </em><font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Tendrils of Horror II: </strong>Increases DPS reduction by 3%/rank. <em>15% at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ff9933">Not sure about this.  Max rank 15% increases DPS reduction from 35 to 41 at M1.  An increase of 6, which is 15% of 35, but I figured it would be additive and not multiplicative, though DPS reductions are no longer listed as %'s.  Working if it's intended to be 15% of 35. </font><font color="#ff3300">This AA is not using the highest version of the spell in it's title, listed as Enhance: Tendrils of Fear II instead of Enhance: Tendrils of Horror II.</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Malignancy: </strong>Reduces the resistability of Malignancy by 3%/rank. <em>15% at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ff3333">Bugged? Displayed resistability at Master 1: R0: 21% R1: 23% R2: 26% R3: 28% R4:30% R5:33% Not giving 3%/rank on most of the ranks.</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Umbral Trap: </strong>Improves the reuse speed of Umbral Trap by 5 secs/rank. <em>25 secs at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ffff33">Works</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Enhance Abhorrent Seal: </strong>Reduces resistability by 3%/rank. <em>15% at max rank 5</em>. <font color="#ff3333">Bugged? Displayed resistability at Master 1: R0: 21% R1: 23% R2: 26% R3: 28% R4:30% R5:33% Not giving 3%/rank on most of the ranks.  Additionally, this AA requires BOTH Malignancy rank 3 and Umbral Trap rank 3. Intended to have 2 requirements?</font></font></div> <div><font size="2"><strong>Curseweaving: </strong>Improves casting speed of all Cursing abilities by 20%/rank. <em>100% at max rank 5</em>.  <font color="#ff3300">Bugged?  Affects only Abhorrent Seal, Umbral Trap, Tendrils of Horror & Ruinous Anathema. Doesn't effect other debuffs like Bane of Protection, Abasement,  Malignancy, Theft of Vitality, and Putrefy.  Also this AA is missing an icon.</font></font></div><div></div><p>Message Edited by Celestian_GC on <span class=date_text>11-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:41 PM</span>

[Darksong]

In samation we get [Removed for Content] other then cani<div></div>

[ShanahNaN]

They obviously wasted what little time they put into these AA's...

[zonedbob]

<P>Ok, these aren't remotely exciting. But I think it's a bit harsh to say they were a waste of time. They provide modest improvements to spells I use quite a lot and will be useful for the slightly tougher end game content in EoF.</P> <P>In some ways it's not really a surprise. There was an awful lot of concern expressed on these boards when KoS came out and we got a good dps spell and a pet, with people saying we're not a dps class or a pet class. Not a surprise then that these new aa don't really alter the gameplay of the class at all. <BR></P> <P>My only real concern is that the aa's should be equally disappointing for all classes. I bet they are.</P>

[Reevac]

<P>Well basically if u wher ein beta u would have noticed that pretty much  everyone of Our spells got nerfed.  So basically instead of taking the time to think of exciting and good AA's for defilers, they nerf all our spells and basically make our aa's a way to get back to way we where.  I mean ALL of our spells got nerfed.  And low and behold there a list of all our AA's and how many ranks u need to put into each to be back to normal.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks Soe for not bothering to give us any good AA's.</P> <P> </P> <P>Plus anyways we all know NOOBs get into to beta so they have no idea how a raid toon works.</P><p>Message Edited by Reevac on <span class=date_text>11-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:56 AM</span>

[Erage]

<DIV>These AA's are definitely lacking.  The entire line of increasing proc rates of things like Dread Invective (thing procs before it expires as is) and Crystallize Spirit (completely useless PVE, and now it can only proc a total of 5 times) is useless.  The "unique" debuff we get Hexation is very poor and not worth it.  The % resistability debuffed needs to be much higher, the duration/recast need to be changed.  I could not tell a lower of trigger %'s when I tested it myself on another player, but I'll admit I didn't go in depth with it.  Lowering the duration of Forced Cannibalize is useless when the recast remains exactly the same.  And 15% damage increase to 3 of our damage spells isn't very much considering how little they do now.  Improving the resistability of our debuffs isn't really something I care for.  If, anything, I'd rather see an noticeable increase in the 36 second debuff durations or increasing the potency of our debuffs.  The entire Prevention line is insignificant to be useful at all, especially the last in the line that improves the 15 min recast group ward by about 330 and the single target one by 174.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In any case, I've been waiting for the next AA patch and *hoping* for significant changes to our AA's.  Cannibalize is the only worthwhile AA, and you have to spend 15 points in a bland line just to get to it.</DIV>

[Maelakai]

If you really want to feel [Removed for Content], go take a look at the new mystic AA lines.  They get buff enhancements, we get DPS enhancements.  Sony seems to be focusing on the good side for healing, protection, etc... and the evil side for DPS, debuffing, etc...  even the god structure echoes this.  Currently there are no evil gods that provide any bonus to healing.<div></div>

[arieste]

why does our DPS suck then?<div></div>

[Argyuile]

The prevention and ressuection line which lots of priests get are just big bags of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].   In addition to that we only have 2 abilitys worth putting points in.  Tendrils II and Canabalize.  It should also be noted that all spells are getting nerfed.  My master ward does almost 200 less on test than it does on life and all my DoT's do less damage.  So your not really getting more damage so much as you are buying back what you already had.   Finnally Mystics get abilitys that improve their healing and buffing while we simply get a big foot in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].   We've been complaining about the Defiler AA's in beta ever since we saw them with no responce and no changes even though other classes have been changed. <div></div>

[Facedown]

Granted its still BETA. Dont plan on these changing at all, ever.As it stands, im in no rush to get my other 50 aa because theres nothing worth having except cani.Hopefully the dev's listen to the numerous posts in the beta forums about us wanting these changed.<div></div>

[arieste]

canni is very nice, and im a regen [Removed for Content] as much as anyone, but to be realistic, if there is one thing that we already have plenty of, its power regen... its like the least needed benefit for a defiler.<div></div>

[Gi]

<P>Its complete dissapointing.</P> <P>9/10 of these AAs are complete useless and the Rest is just crappy waste of Points.</P> <P>I dont care about a push in Damage, Emergency Spells oder Stuff like this.</P> <P>Look at the Templer or Mystic Lines and give us this too.</P> <P>EoF looks like the Freeport-Hate-Addon...</P>

[ShanahNaN]

I honestly don't think any of them are any good, not even Cannibalize. If you have 7,000 health and 6,000 power...it takes 1,750 health to give you 600 power. In order to heal yourself back up, you'd need to use Sacrifical Deliverance which costs 254 power...also adding in an extra heal with a long cast/recast time. So you're really only getting about 350 power from sacrificing 1,750 health. That's a lot of health for just a little power. Defilers already have some of the better debuffs in the game, why would we need AA's to make them even better? Esepcially if raiding - mobs can only be debuffed so much. Stacked with all other debuffs, the whole idea of making debuffs better is kind of pointless.As far as making our emergency spells better...not a horrible idea, but how often can we really use them? They come in handy every 15 minutes at most - unless by some miracle you happen to have Jesters Cap when you use it. AA's that would help reduce our cast times or recast times would be awesome - since we have horridly long timers. Maybe, just maybe those AAs can NOT require the use of a stupid dog.

[THteampink]

I would love an AA to increase the duration of abasement and malignancy.  As it stands now, these AAs suck.<div></div>

[Raff]

<DIV>So far, I am very pleased w/ the AA line up. I spent about an hour today in beta resetting AA's and playing w/ the lines. There's been a great deal of work thats gone into the AA's from what I can tell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The two lines that stood out to me are cursing and decaying. The other lines are interesting as well and I could see value in them, but not my cup of tea. It's great to have the option to increase the clicky ward potency and have timers lessened, and I also considered the potence line as the proc trigger increases seemed like they could be good as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Decaying is the line that will get you your canni. Going down this line can be achieved by upping the damage of some of our dots, I dumped my max points into Forced Canni and Defile, while leaving the minimum points in the other dot's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cursing seems to be the really important line that I expect most defilers of all play styles will want regardless of play. To have a 15% increase in resistability is huge, much more important than it seems on the surface. The umbral trap reuse speed increase is really nice too. I also VERY much like the cast timers changed to be faster. Now if you don't believe the value of this line is worth anything, then I openly challenge you to not choose it, take on the t7 content in this expansion and then let me know what your line is when you've played it first hand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>None of the AA's (save canni - which you WILL love) seem very interesting when you look at them here. No, they don't give us any real awesome new spells. What they do provide is further extension to our existing spell lines capabilities. I think it was a smart move on the Dev's part to take this approach. These suttle changes will prove very important when you take on the harder content. Anyone at level 70 w/ 100 AA's invested is the type of player that will appreciate the value of these AA's once you've actually tried them. Especially when you do Mistmore the first time and suddenly you find yourself in the middle of dozens of orange con mobs. You'd better be sure you are debuffing and you'd better make certian your spells are going to stick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After playing today w/ these AA's and chosing these line, I really felt like my defiler had achieved 2 class defining abilities I grew to love about my EQ1 shammy, his primary role is to debuff, then heal, and he's a serious self mana batter w/ canni.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>FYI... I also did a side by side inspection of my beta toon vs my EQ2 live toon - I don't see all the spell nerfs everyone is talking about. The stats al looked the same to me, w/ extremely minor exception to some DoT's that had some small tweaks. Some were slightly larger tic's some slightly smaller. Nothing worth mentioning really. My spells are all master 1 on both toons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have not validated the spells are working, I'll be doing this over the course of the next week, between raiding ;^)</DIV>

[Erage]

<P>The spell "nerf" was essentially rescinded right as the NDA was lifted.  So that's why you don't see a big difference in the spells numbers right now, however, the resistability of all the spells is still less than live.</P> <P>I've played around with these AA's for weeks, and all of it is very insignificant.  The evolution of Defiler's AA's was practically nonexistant to this point in beta.  They added Cannibalize, the only decent AA we get, and a small trigger debuff to Hexation.  The rest haven't changed.  Reducing the resistances of just 2 of our debuffs by 15% (effectively displayed as 12% though) is not enhancing our debuffing abilities, especially when their resist rates are being lowered as it is in the expansion.  That should be 1 AA for all debuffs, if anything.  But I've seen very little difference with and without this AA on resists as it is.  Whether it's 15% or 12%, it's still not significant enough for 10 AA's on 2 debuffs.  The nox debuff increase of Ruinous Anathema is equally bad.  A duration increase of the nox debuff would serve far better than spending 5 points to increase the debuff by 142, when it's only going to last 10 seconds as is.  And if you are going to reduce the recast of Umbral trap, a level 35 bloodlines spell that you can't even get the Master of, it should at least bring it very close to the duration, as to make it worthwhile to be able to constantly maintain it without a cooldown.  And the reduction of casting times is still bugged on Curseweaving, not even affecting most of our debuffs, but affecting things like the casting time of Tendrils and Ruinous Anathema.  Reducing all our debuffs to 1 second casts is ok, but really not worth spending the points to get to it. </P> <P>Trigger % increases is a joke on the Potent line.  Dire Invective already procs before it expires so it's no dps gain to have it proc more (since it's a dot) and Crystallize Spirit is nearly useless in PVE.  Hexation has a 36 sec duration and 2 min recast, which might be ok if only it was more than a measly 15% resistability increase.  It's not worth spending 15 points in the Potent line to even get this at all.  Forced Canni duration reduction is useless without recast reduction.  And reducing Defile's duration isn't really appealing as the delay between ticks gives it more time for other spells to knock down the hps.  Also, the 15% increase of DPS of the few spells we have isn't very significant when they already deal low damage.  Preventative Medicines only increase our emergency wards by about 330 for the group ward and 173 for the single target.  Seeing as we can't even cast those but every 15 minutes (or 12 mins and 30 secs if you want to waste AA's for an insignificant recast reduction), that is just extremely weak to make these any more significant against T7 mobs.  The recast AA's should cut the recasts in half at least, and the extra ward, if anything, should be added on in the seperate AA's involving them while replacing Preventative Medicines with something that's used more frequently then emergency wards.</P> <P>We have way too many insignificant recast reductions (there isn't one recast reduction at all that is significant to make any difference or warrant the AA's required) and AA's that involve rarely used spells (emergency wards, crystallize spirit, etc).  Enhance the duration of debuffs, make hexation much more worthwhile than 15% PVE resistability, and make all the recast reductions significant.  All of our AA's are too insignificant to last another 9 months.  Any evolution at all in our AA's would have been somewhat promising, but we've had all the same insignificant AA's (minus cannibalize) throughout and it's extremely frustrating.</P>

[Ridler]

I totally agree with our AA's being total crap from just reading them. I could careless about dps or emergency wards. The canni is nice to have but when your in T7 raiding you should already have manastone, vessel, pots and other things. What I'd like to see is AA's for buffs and our wards. Extended debuff times would be nice to have. Those are AA lines I'd be glad to add my AA's to.

[Maelakai]

Save a few small gems hidden in the ruffage (ToH and Cannibalize) there's very little worth spending the AA on.  The entire decaying line will simply bring our DPS back up to where it was pre-EoF.I for one hope the developers are paying attention to the feedback, both here and in the beta forums, as most defilers are upset with this build.  I'm not asking that we be made uber, I don't expect ward improvements or heal improvements.  What I would like to see is the following:Decaying Line - This needs to be looked at, we shouldn't have to buy what limited DPS we have back by wasting AA's.  This line could be very interesting with a few more tweaks.  I love the finisher for this line, although I rarely have mana issues as it is.Cursing -  There is no point in the resistability improvements, I (and I'm sure most defilers) would appreciate a time increase much much more.  Maintaining debuffs is hectic and having longer to cycle them would be awesome, especially since Defilers are supposed to be the 'debuff' shamans.  The line finisher needs to be looked at, it should decrease the casting time on all of our 'cursing' abilities, and not just a few.There is no point in the preventitive medicine line at all... why would I waste points to increase wards I can only use every 15m?  I have what, maybe one cast per contested?  Maybe 4 times in a raid zone?  For a measly 15% increase this isn't worth it, I'd be better served to maintain my bane line and dog.The other lines (imo) are not worth mentioning.  I would love to see a buff line, but I'm not holding my breath here.  From what I've seen it appears SoE is trying to put a more distinguishable line between evil and good.  Good are protectors, buffers - Evil are DPSers, debuffers.  This is apparent in the diety layout, I would say painfully apparent but I doubt any of this will change either.  I doubt this line is as clear as it should be, and maybe I'm biased but it seems that the evil priests got the short end of the stick in general.<div></div>This could be an interesting idea, if executed right, but looking at other healer AAs we unfotunately got the short end of the stick with our AA lineup.

[Raff]

<DIV>Maelakai - "Good are protectors, buffers - Evil are DPSers, debuffers."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, thats exactly it. This was intended for the shammies since launch. It s hould be no suprise the AA's align this way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Re: better uses of AA points, to each his own on how to spend points. Resistibality and resists in general are being releveled in this expansion. It would be too soon to assume that the resistibility intent of our AA line is useless until the final balancing is achieved. It's clear resistances are coming back to play more of a role in the general mechanics of the game in this expansion. I will be very pleased if these changes help ensure my debuffs land on orange con mobs. I believe this is the intent of the AA. Not only can we debuff very well as is, now we have the oppertunity to adjust our toons to stick our primary debuffs on the toughest of encounters (both raid and non-raid)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also see why some folks would want longer durations on spells. While it would be nice, its not required. I understand it's hectic, thats the fun and challange of playing a toon and being able to play it so well its a non issue. It's what helps seperate a casual player or a bad player from those who play their toons very well. I'll take a spell I have to cast slightly more often over a spell that takes 2-3 casts to stick. We are able to keep our debuffs up on mobs as is, adding longer durations won't change that, it will only mean you can be a little lazier during battles. If you are not having mana issues as is and don't see any benefit to canni, then I really cant see the argument to have longer lasting debuffs over debuffs that stick, you clearly have the power to recast them; right?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The debuffs that are in the AA line are our class defining debuffs. They are our two 'Slows' and 'All Attribute' debuffs.  If you don't see these as important to have specifically targeted in the AA line, you may want to see the quote above and ponder why you chose a defiler. While you are at it, consider why we get the best of both worlds and have the best tank buffs, even over our mystic counter parts. Be weary of which arguments you chose to make.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a different note... the new tinkering lines and ability to imbue gear w/ various effects is fantastic! Some of the things you all want in your AA's may be achieved through gear and augments ;^)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't let the forum griping about AA's get you down - this is a fantastic expansion and I'm sure you will love it!</DIV>

[Maelakai]

<div><blockquote><hr>Raffta wrote:<div></div> <div>Maelakai - "Good are protectors, buffers - Evil are DPSers, debuffers."</div> <div> </div> <div>Re: better uses of AA points, to each his own on how to spend points. Resistibality and resists in general are being releveled in this expansion. It would be too soon to assume that the resistibility intent of our AA line is useless until the final balancing is achieved. It's clear resistances are coming back to play more of a role in the general mechanics of the game in this expansion. I will be very pleased if these changes help ensure my debuffs land on orange con mobs. I believe this is the intent of the AA. Not only can we debuff very well as is, now we have the oppertunity to adjust our toons to stick our primary debuffs on the toughest of encounters (both raid and non-raid)<font color="#ff0000">I agree, this MAY be useful but as of now it isn't.  If this gives us an edge in debuffing 75+ mobs than it will be useful.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>I also see why some folks would want longer durations on spells. While it would be nice, its not required. I understand it's hectic, thats the fun and challange of playing a toon and being able to play it so well its a non issue. It's what helps seperate a casual player or a bad player from those who play their toons very well. I'll take a spell I have to cast slightly more often over a spell that takes 2-3 casts to stick. We are able to keep our debuffs up on mobs as is, adding longer durations won't change that, it will only mean you can be a little lazier during battles. If you are not having mana issues as is and don't see any benefit to canni, then I really cant see the argument to have longer lasting debuffs over debuffs that stick, you clearly have the power to recast them; right?<font color="#ff0000">I have no issue maintaining debuffs now, I simply would like more time in between to do DPS.  Longer durations would mean more time to ward/heal/dps... it would only be a nice touch, and certainly wouldn't break any class defining abilities.  Still, if we don't get it then so be it... I won't cry over it, just thought it would be a more noticable AA than resistability decreases.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>The debuffs that are in the AA line are our class defining debuffs. They are our two 'Slows' and 'All Attribute' debuffs.  If you don't see these as important to have specifically targeted in the AA line, you may want to see the quote above and ponder why you chose a defiler. While you are at it, consider why we get the best of both worlds and have the best tank buffs, even over our mystic counter parts. Be weary of which arguments you chose to make.<font color="#ff0000">Unless they've fixed it the 'Curse Weaving' ability was only affecting three (or four) of our debuffs.  I never once stated these weren't important, simply that it would be a benefit to have all of our curse ability cast times reduced.  If they did this than my previous comment regarding duration would be moot... shorter cast times = more time to DPS, ward and heal.I won't argue the buffs, as I said, I won't hold my breath for a buff increase AA line.  I'm quite happy with our raw HP buffs and the ToH line.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>On a different note... the new tinkering lines and ability to imbue gear w/ various effects is fantastic! Some of the things you all want in your AA's may be achieved through gear and augments ;^)</div> <div> </div> <div>Don't let the forum griping about AA's get you down - this is a fantastic expansion and I'm sure you will love it!</div><hr></blockquote>I'm not sure if you intended your reply to be 'hostile' or 'negative' but that seemed to be the case.  I've never complained about the defiler class in general, and was only making observations based on what the other priest lines are getting.  I'm also not going to hold my breath about changes, but if one doesn't voice one's opinions than nothing will get done.  Some of our AA items are completely pointless (Preventitive Medicine) and if we don't discuss, debate and confer than nothing will be done to correct it.  Of course everything I say is my opinion, but I want to hear the opinions of my peers, in my case I primarily wish to hear opinons based on raid effectivity, but I welcome the opinions of non-raiders and soloers.DraydinDefiler - Chaotic Legion - Kithicorchaoticlegion.guildportal.com</div>

[Raff]

<DIV>Maelakai - I only referenced your quote about good/evil. I had no intention of calling you or anyone out specifically on your opinions. I only commented on statements made w/in the thread. I think you read my post thinking I was specifically targeting you because I led w/ the quote. I actually used your quote because of its relevancy and my agreement w/ it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My intent is neither hostile or negative. I'm simply debating my viewpoint open and respectfully. I'm an advocate of the changes and like them; debating on the side of the Devs.</DIV>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ridler wrote:<BR> I totally agree with our AA's being total crap from just reading them. I could careless about dps or emergency wards. The canni is nice to have but when your in T7 raiding you should already have manastone, vessel, pots and other things. What I'd like to see is AA's for buffs and our wards. Extended debuff times would be nice to have. Those are AA lines I'd be glad to add my AA's to.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Agree completely.  I'm pleased to see the new AA's are not Dog-dependent, since that's a liability not an asset in PvP.  That said, as written in the description above, they are underwhelming.   We'll have to see if what (if any) adjustments or changes are made when it goes live.</P> <P>Haven't liked their work the few days after the launch of an expansion so far.   We'll seeeeee   <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[arieste]

<DIV>in regards to "AA line having our class-defining debuffs", am I missing something or isn't Abasement supposed to be one of these?  I might not be the world's number one defiling expert, but Abasement seems to me more important than 4/5 of the debuffs on that line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps it's not important with the new changes?</DIV><p>Message Edited by arieste on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:05 PM</span>

[Maelakai]

<div><blockquote><hr>arieste wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div>in regards to "AA line having our class-defining debuffs", am I missing something or isn't Abasement supposed to be one of these?  I might not be the world's number one defiling expert, but Abasement seems to me more important than 4/5 of the debuffs on that line.</div> <div> </div> <div>Perhaps it's not important with the new changes?</div><p>Message Edited by arieste on <span class="date_text">11-06-2006</span> <span class="time_text">04:05 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I believe (or I hope anyways) that it was the intent to have the 'Curse Weaving' ability affect all of our debuffs.  This AA was busted when they first added it, and it affected all of our spells.  In it's current incarnation it is improving the recast of 4 of our debuffs, two of which are tagged to damage abilities, so I'm assuming it's still bugged.Draydin,Defiler - Chaotic Legion - Kithicorchaoticlegion.guildportal.com</div>

[Raff]

<DIV>Yes, Abesement would be a bit important too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I'd wondered about that as well and I had the impression that it's intended to be covered w/ the increase in casting speed. Like Maelaki, I hope anyways. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm guessing they are still bugged, but theres still ample time to address these issues. I'm just trying to get my head around the concepts. Won't know for sure until we get the first or second post launch patches I'm sure.</DIV>

[arieste]

because why Umbral Trap > Abasement ?  /boggle.<div></div>

[Raff]

<DIV>because why Umbral Trap > Abasement ?  /boggle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure, perhaps the idea is you can lead off w/ the Umbral trap and degernerate to finish off the slow stack & get the damage down, then land the Abhorrent, which will leave Abasement likely to stick. Likely how I'll do things on pulls if this is the case.With the cast timers what they would be w/ the reduction, it seems plausable to get this all done while the prewards are up, before assists are called and you need to switch back to healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will see anyways...</DIV>

[Erage]

Longer duration debuffs > 15% resistability of 2 debuffs.  I don't have problems landing debuffs and I don't have problems maintaining all debuffs.  However, adding more duration to the 36 second debuffs will be far more useful than having to recast 2 debuffs less do to the rare resist.  And what of abasement resists, since we have to cast that far more often to maintain than loathsome seal, to ignore it's resistability just seems random.  I also don't mind having 2 second casting debuffs turned into 1 second cast debuffs, but it just seems redudant to have that and an increase in resistability.  And anything less than reducing Umbral Traps recast to having virtually no cooldown is silly for a spell that you can't get master of and doesn't change in 35 levels.  It's a nice bonus debuff to throw up, but not one to dedicate an insignificant recast reduction AA to.

[Raff]

<DIV>I felt the same way at first, Erage. Heres some things to consider that you don't see in the AA list... the resists are rebalanced, your expansion content in the higher instances and raids will be yellow and orange con predominately. I also noticed (and this is a very small sample set of content admittantly) in Mistmore, the mobs were hitting hella hard. My group was a betabuffed group w/ full fabled gear and all adept 3's. Mobs were hitting the tank for 4-7k w/ single melee hits and these were just trash mobs for a single xp group. If theres more to come like that, umbral and degenerate may become not just yours, but your tanks new best friend. </DIV>

[Erage]

<DIV>I'm well aware of the resist changes, as I've been in beta for a while and I've played in Mistmoore castle.  I've even reset my AA's midway into Mismoore castle just to test combo's of AA's out.  Resists are not that out of synch to where 15% (and it's unknown if you really are getting 15%, as the actual displayed increase is only 12%) resistability will make a big difference.  Mistmoore mobs hit hard and have an insidious casting timer debuff.  The brunt of the danger in there is through numbers and the countless adds.  Getting 5+ mobs and separate encounters on a pull, and you'll find the bigger friend is Tendrils which can debuff them all.  Loathsome seal can only be up one at a time, and umbral trap is the same and wont be available every pull nor will you be able to maintain it on any one mob (assuming he lasts that long).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Look, if maybe I had seen progression of our AA's in beta I might could be more optimistic.  But the defiler AA's have had no evolution at all, with only 2 changes that weren't bug fixes, Cannibalize (which was good btw, but doesn't justify the other AA's) and the trigger % added to Hexation.</DIV>

[Raff]

<DIV>gotcha... thanks</DIV>

[Unwise]

<DIV>I am curious about how the spell mechanics work behind the scenes for resistances. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is it a comparison between our resist % and the mobs level and spell quality % ? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does having a worse resistability just mean that they are less likely to land the spell? or does it mean that if they do land it, it is likely to be lower in the damage range of the spell?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If that were the case, then the  +15% to mob's resistability line is pretty darn nice as it basically gives everyone on your raid an extra 15% to every resistance which is about 1125 resistance. Even if resistability only works for outright resists, everyone in the raid has chance to resist as if they had 1125 more to every resist stats.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once again, I'm not saying that is how it works, but if it is, I would not dismiss that AA as worthless.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Unwise on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:21 PM</span>

[Erage]

<DIV>Oh I absolutely think Hexation could be a decent debuff, but it's current form is extremely lacking.  The recast vs duration is too much to be worth spending that many points in that crappy line to only get 15% resistability increase for 30 seconds on one mob.  If they kept the recast/duration but upped the resistability %, it could be worthwhile, or just reduced the recast altogether.  When I first saw it, I didn't realize it was only one rank, and thought it was 15%/rank.  Thought that it would be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good, maybe even overpowering with a 75% resistability increase, until I realized it was one rank.  Not saying the % should be that high, but 15% isn't worth it when it's not even going to be up the majority of the time.  What's ironic about hexation, though, is that since it's only 1 rank, it's resistability to actually land on a mob is pretty low, less than that of an Adept 3.  One could raise the same issue with resistability on Umbral Trap, having no master version available, if you wanted to focus on debuff's resistability.</DIV>

[Erage]

<DIV>Also I don't think the resistability of a spell has anything to do with mitigation, so a 15% debuff wouldn't lower the actual damage of a mobs spell by 15%.  Resists do affect how much you mitigate, but I doubt resistability of the spell that's cast on you factors in it.  But I don't claim to know the exact mechanics, so I could be completely wrong on this, but I think resistability only comes into play on whether a spell outright resists or lands (along with the persons resists/con), then mitigation is calculated based upon con and resists, but not resistability.  I dunno, maybe there is a dev statement somewhere explaining the mechanics to clear it up for certain.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Erage on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:44 PM</span>

[Unwise]

<DIV>I think that is how it works too Erage, but I would like to meet someone with this debuff and do a few duels to test it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good point about the amount of time the spell can actually be up, I had not looked at that in detail.</DIV>

[Argyuile]

    Another problem with stat debuffs and resists is they are almost immpossible to test and since SoE wont tell us the mechanics behind them I can only assume they are broke as [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Does a 33% stat debuff really have any effect on an epic mob?  What about resits, they seem screwed up me.   I had over 10k cold resist agaisnt the crab.  Once his AE hits me for 5k,  then 1k then 8k  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is that?   Is that the way its supposed to work?  Who knows?   Having any increase which we cant empiricly test is just a way to screw ourselves since it probably dosnt work anyways.   The community has pointed out tons of stuff that dosnt work because we can test it and you want to spend points in something you cant test?  F that.<div></div>

[Raff]

<P>"Another problem with stat debuffs and resists is they are almost immpossible to test and since SoE wont tell us the mechanics behind them I can only assume they are broke as [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. "</P> <P>There are ways to test this... You can get a tank, a dps and the defiler, pick a mob that has multiple copies in a zone (like the ^ ravasects in bone mire). Have the group melee attack the mob to death using no ca's, and no debuffs. parse the fight. dont worry about DPS, just focus on the total damage done to kill the mob. Then retry w/ the same criteria, only using your sta debuff before the melee do any damage. Compare the toatal DPS to kill the mob. the % variance should be inline w/ your sta debuff. I did this back in t5 & t6 days, and it showed a ~30% variance on total damage. The sta debuff was effective then. You can take the same approach w/ other stat debuffs and have the DPS cast whichever spells/ca's you want to test in the exact same ways. You should see noticible differences in those spells/ca's effectiveness w/ and w/out the particular debuffs.</P> <P>Valid points on spell resist testing. I would try using your spells on orange con mobs and trying this in a group that isn't debuffing the mob (like brigands for example). You could try using your spell on a mob and recording numbers of success/failure of your spell and your spells level. You'd then need to find someone w/ a different version of the same spell and record their findings. w/ enough sample set data, we could draw some conclusions. This approach would be a PITA to coordinate though. We could try it on test, it's easier to get toons beta buffed w/ adept 1's, and then one w/ adept 3's.</P> <P>As far as testing our toon's resistance of hostile spells today... I'd love to hear how others have tested. I <EM>assume</EM> a resist stat cap today of ~7k, so anything higher really isn't effective, at least thats my logic. I still get my resists as high as possible for raids (I.E. 10,068 poi is as high as i can go in my MT raid config not using a necro's poi resists) just because... I do notice my damage taken is always less than others in raids w/ 5-7k or 7-9k. (say fighting Tarinax/cheldrak) There is a noticible difference but its near impossible to extrapulate the data out of the parser into a chart that makes sense. Does anyone have a good way to test this?</P> <P>Message Edited by Raffta on <SPAN class=date_text>11-07-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:12 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Raffta on <SPAN class=date_text>11-07-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:13 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Raffta on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 AM</span>

[Erage]

<DIV>Well as of today, our AA's have gone through a change.  The last line in Prevention is now a ward that sacrifices all but 10% of your health, converting it into a ward.  We now have an AA that increases the magic ward on Abhorrent Shroud.  Crystallize Spirit has completely changed and is now a group buff that summons an essence to the person who gets the killing blow in the group (I presume), and additionally the essence is now a group heal for nearly the same amount as what it was single.  But either the spell is bugged or we have a useless AA for this, as the proc right now is 3000%.  They have removed the AA that increased the DPS debuff from Tendrils and they've also changed Malignancy to be a straight debuff of 48 for all stats at M1 instead of a % debuff, lasting 1 min 12 secs now.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Erage on <span class=date_text>11-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:14 AM</span>

[Vazi]

<DIV>Thank god they are looking at these.  I was dreading spending my AA points on most of that crap.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if you are just messing with us...  I'll be a saaaad panda.</DIV>

[Maelakai]

Trust me, the AA line isn't that much better than it previously was.The Cannibalize end line has changed to a 25% damage increase and a 10% feed (damage increase lasts 3s), recast is 20s.Hexation - no changes noticed, duration is still 36s, recast 1m 30sSoul Ward (the new end line) gives a 6.3k ward to a single target and drops your health to 10% - this is bugged as it shows a 5 point progression, but extra points do nothing.Curse weaving appears to affect more debuffs now, but the recast/reuse timer was reduced from 100% at rank 5 to 75% at rank 5.<div></div>Emergency Ward reduction time is now 5m at rank 5 (dropping recast to 10m)They replaced the DPS/slow improvement to ToH with a power/resistability improvement to our single target fear....The Enhance:Forced Cannibalize now increases the damage/mana amount by 40% at rank 5, this is bugged, didn't see a difference in the spell.The entire curse line now reduces power cost + resistability instead of just resistability.The damage lines now improve damage by a straight percent instead of reducing the duration and making them tick faster. except for the defile AA which now reduces the re-use timer by 50s at rank 5Malignancy was indeed nerfed to a point debuff instead of a % debuff.I didn't look hard at the other lines, at this point I was pretty depressed with the changes so I did a lengthy feedback and logged.  Hopefully the devs are paying attention... in retrospect the good side of the shamans got 35% increase to HP instead of 15% for the single target buff, increased stat buffs, etc... it seems we're being forced into a caster role but we aren't being given the tools to do it well... we have no int buffs (mystics avatar gets an int/wis component with the new AA's), our recast and casting times are too long, we're not being given any additional melee skill.... I could go on.I'm happy they made changes, but they could have done much better than this.  If they want to relegate us to dps shaman that's fine, I'll grudgingly step out of the MT group, but at least give us the tools to pull it off.DraydinDefiler - Chaotic Legion - Kithicor

[Besual]

<div><blockquote><hr>Maelakai wrote:Trust me, the AA line isn't that much better than it previously was.The Cannibalize end line has changed to a 25% damage increase and a 10% feed (damage increase lasts 3s), recast is 20s.<font color="#ffff00">How many of our damage spells have a casting time less then 2.5sec to be effected by the damage increase?</font>Hexation - no changes noticed, duration is still 36s, recast 1m 30s<font color="#ffff00">I'm indiff to this skill.</font> Soul Ward (the new end line) gives a 6.3k ward to a single target and drops your health to 10% - this is bugged as it shows a 5 point progression, but extra points do nothing.<font color="#ffff00">Does it drop you to 10% independend of how many HPs you had before?  Aka 80% -> 10% or 5%->10% (= heal) and always wards for 6.3k? They should change the skill to a stance that reduce the casting time of all heals / wards (-20-35%) but we would use more power (+10-15%). I would even swall to dump 15AA into quite useless skills for prerequisites.</font><font color="#ffff00"></font><font color="#ffff00"></font>Curse weaving appears to affect more debuffs now, but the recast/reuse timer was reduced from 100% at rank 5 to 75% at rank 5.<div></div><font color="#ffff00">I'm indiff to this skill but would prefer extended debuffs. I'm no fun of button smashing.</font>Emergency Ward reduction time is now 5m at rank 5 (dropping recast to 10m)<font color="#ffff00">Still doesn't sounds intressting.</font>They replaced the DPS/slow improvement to ToH with a power/resistability improvement to our single target fear....<font color="#ffff00">I liked the improved DPS / slow much more. Power cost is no factor because you only cast it when you start a group / raid or the tank died. Resitability... not sure how many resists we had / have on ToH in the moment.</font>The Enhance:Forced Cannibalize now increases the damage/mana amount by 40% at rank 5, this is bugged, didn't see a difference in the spell.<font color="#ffff00">OMG!!! Forced canni does 40% more damage! Now I con solo epic x100./sarcasm offNot sure if +10-12power / tick are worth 5 points.</font>The entire curse line now reduces power cost + resistability instead of just resistability.<font color="#ffff00">Still not a good AA line but sounds like the most apealing one now.</font>The damage lines now improve damage by a straight percent instead of reducing the duration and making them tick faster. except for the defile AA which now reduces the re-use timer by 50s at rank 5<font color="#ffff00">A boon for the solo defilers I guess.</font>Malignancy was indeed nerfed to a point debuff instead of a % debuff.I didn't look hard at the other lines, at this point I was pretty depressed with the changes so I did a lengthy feedback and logged.  Hopefully the devs are paying attention... in retrospect the good side of the shamans got 35% increase to HP instead of 15% for the single target buff, increased stat buffs, etc... it seems we're being forced into a caster role but we aren't being given the tools to do it well... we have no int buffs (mystics avatar gets an int/wis component with the new AA's), our recast and casting times are too long, we're not being given any additional melee skill.... I could go on.I'm happy they made changes, but they could have done much better than this.  If they want to relegate us to dps shaman that's fine, I'll grudgingly step out of the MT group, but at least give us the tools to pull it off.DraydinDefiler - Chaotic Legion - Kithicor<hr></blockquote>I didn't expect much from our AA tree but the first version was still a disapointment. The new version looks a bit better but still not impressive.</div>

[Maelakai]

<div><blockquote><hr>Besual wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Maelakai wrote:They replaced the DPS/slow improvement to ToH with a power/resistability improvement to our single target fear....<font color="#ffff00">I liked the improved DPS / slow much more. Power cost is no factor because you only cast it when you start a group / raid or the tank died. Resitability... not sure how many resists we had / have on ToH in the moment.</font></blockquote>I didn't expect much from our AA tree but the first version was still a disapointment. The new version looks a bit better but still not impressive.</div><hr></blockquote>You misunderstood, they removed the ToH ability entirely and added in an AA for our Fear spell, I don't actually believe I've ever used this ability... at least not outside of PvP.I've done a feedback on everything you mentioned, as well as adding some suggestions so hopefully the devs are listening.  I'd ask that any other defilers in beta do the same... we don't need to complain, the line is looking better, but some things just don't work (ie. 3s of 25% damage on the new cannibalize).One thing I feel quite passionately about is the new Soul Ward end line ability.  I like it, but it seems bland.  I think they were attempting to give us an equivilent to the Life Burn and Mana Burn abilities... if this is the case I'd prefer it eat 90% of our health and then ward for an amount (say 1.5x) the hp taken.  For example, if we have 7000hp casting would eat 6300hp (leaving us with 700hp) and ward for 9450hp.  With a recast of 5m this certainly wouldn't break the game, and it would give us a reason for going down the preventitive line.Recast on emergencies being improved (60s/rank instead of 30s/rank) is a good idea, but it isn't enough... reduce it by 90s/rank (7.5m at rank 5), this would bring it to a 7.5m recast, that might bring it into the realm of usefulness.Improving our dps by simply increasing the base damage on our dots is a great idea, but the AA's should reduce recast as well, we only really have 3 dots + defile, and those can be blown too quickly, and we'll be left with nothing to cast until they cycle up again.As I said though, I'm not complaining... Defilers were meant to be the 'caster' shaman from the start, and some of these AAs are heading in the right direction, but we need to feedback to ensure that things are improved before this goes live, because after release we're not likely to see any changes for awhile.On my wish list....1.  Voodoo stuff... zombies, dolls, etc... I think this would add massive flavor <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />2.  An AA to add int to our wraith form buff (if we're going to be casters we're going to need the int)Cheers,DraydinDefiler - Chaotic Legion - Kithicor</div>

[arieste]

<P>this copied from another thread so as to keep discussion in one place:</P> <P>questions for testers...</P> <P>1.  Cannibalize:   does the 25% dmg increase work for all ticks of a dot or just the first one ( i.e. defile, maelstrom, corruption, etc)?   (i just noticed the 3sec duration, but i guess with some speed buffs its still possible to throw up defile, so the question stands)</P> <P>2.  Seal of Abhorrence:  is the prerequisite correct? does it require TWO different AAs to be at 3 points?</P> <P>3.  Curseweaving:  is it correct that it is 15% per rank, so 45% at 5 ranks?</P> <P>Suggestion: could they make Soul Ward RAID castable?  It has very limited use if I can't cast it on MT <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I was seriously debating going down this line for the huge ward, but being limited to group, I don't think it's worth it.</P>

[Ridler]

Well at least got some change from what we had before. I'm not to crazy about all this resist stuff though since I've never had a problem debuffing mobs, but in PVP thats a whole different story.

[Maelakai]

<div><blockquote><hr>arieste wrote:<div></div> <p>this copied from another thread so as to keep discussion in one place:</p> <p>questions for testers...</p> <p>1.  Cannibalize:   does the 25% dmg increase work for all ticks of a dot or just the first one ( i.e. defile, maelstrom, corruption, etc)?   (i just noticed the 3sec duration, but i guess with some speed buffs its still possible to throw up defile, so the question stands)</p> <p>2.  Seal of Abhorrence:  is the prerequisite correct? does it require TWO different AAs to be at 3 points?</p> <p>3.  Curseweaving:  is it correct that it is 15% per rank, so 45% at 5 ranks?</p> <p>Suggestion: could they make Soul Ward RAID castable?  It has very limited use if I can't cast it on MT <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I was seriously debating going down this line for the huge ward, but being limited to group, I don't think it's worth it.</p><hr></blockquote>From what I could tell the 25% was on each tick in the duration, hard to tell as most stuff will only tick once in that timeframe.Seal has only one prerequisite, you need point in one or the other to take it.  This was also bugged, at rank 5 there was no difference in the ward amount shown in the spell description.At rank 5 curse weaving is 75% reduction time, 15x5 = 75 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I didn't have a chance to test soul ward in a raid environment, I don't see why it would be limited to group though, our regular wards are not.</div>

[arieste]

<P>i meant 75 when i typed 45% <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>the description says "Group Friend" not "Group or Raid Friend" which is why i brought it up.</P>

[arieste]

oh and "the tick in the 3 seconds" doesn't really make sense (not to say it's not correct), it refers to the next "damage spell you cast will do 25% more damage" if the next spell i cast is Defile, it's damage is not limited to it's first tick.   So they need to change either the effect or the description as these two don't match up.  If my "Defile" spell does 10,000 pts of damage, i expect 25% increase to make it 12,500, according to what it says there.  We only have ONE non-DOT damage spell, so if they meant for this to effect only Imprecation, they would have used that spells specific name/line.  As it says "damage spell" it certainly makes it sound like it SHOULD apply to DOTs.

[ZionXIII]

My guess would be that it would be limited to one tick on defile, but not the others. Defile is a bit of a non-standard DoT. It has a chance to crit on every tick, unlike our other dots. It also has a chance to proc other spells with every tick, unlike the other DoTs we have which is only a chance to proc something when it first lands. Unless they have drastically changed the way Defile works, I'm sure this is how it will be.

[arieste]

<P>regardles of how it actualy works, I would like to see the description match what the spell actually does.</P> <P>If it only effects one tick of defile, the description should specify that.  If it doesn't effect DOTs in general, the description should specify that.  I don't want to spend 20 hard earned AAs to find out that the spell doesn't do what it says.</P> <P>It can be as simple as changing it to "the next time you do non-melee damage to a mob, this damage will be increased by 25%" or something along those lines.</P> <P> </P>

[Erage]

<DIV>The 25% works for the full duration of all our dots and spells, except Defile.  Defile is an exception simple because it's not something we cast on a mob, it pulses from us every tick, so the game treats it as if we are casting Defile every time it ticks.  You aren't likely going to see a change in description to say "except only 1 tick of Defile".  The mechanics of Defile would have to change completely for it to be affected by such abilities over a full duration.  Either way, the DPS gained from Cannibalize is a bonus and not the real reason to take the AA.</DIV>

[arieste]

<P>boohoo <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   figures that the damage buff doesn't work on the best damage spell. </P> <P>Thanks a lot for clearing it up though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>