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Darkstu
12-03-2005, 12:48 AM
<DIV>Where do you find yourself when you are on a raid?  Are you in the main tank group?  Second tank group? Support healing group? or some other job?  Just wondering how everyone else spends their time raiding.  I know I jump from group to group constantly as shamans log on or they may not be present.  More often than not I find myself in the second tanks group which is usually support healing group as well.   Only time I ever find myself in the MT group is when the defiler is not present.  Pre LU13 I was almost always in MT group, but the amount HPs buffed is significantly different between the defiler and mystic classes now.  If anyone was bumped from MT group status down to another group how did that make you feel?  Recently had an Inquisitor leave the guild because he was moved to second tank group for reasons that Templar buffs provide more HPs.</DIV>

paisan
12-03-2005, 12:53 AM
<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darkstu wrote:<BR> <DIV>Where do you find yourself when you are on a raid?  Are you in the main tank group?  Second tank group? Support healing group? or some other job?  Just wondering how everyone else spends their time raiding.  I know I jump from group to group constantly as shamans log on or they may not be present.  More often than not I find myself in the second tanks group which is usually support healing group as well.   Only time I ever find myself in the MT group is when the defiler is not present.  Pre LU13 I was almost always in MT group, but the amount HPs buffed is significantly different between the defiler and mystic classes now.  If anyone was bumped from MT group status down to another group how did that make you feel?  <FONT color=#ff0000>Recently had an Inquisitor leave the guild because he was moved to second tank group for reasons that Templar buffs provide more HPs.</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Thats like not going to the beach with your friends because you cant ride in the frontseat... childish.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think Mystics should defin. be in the MT group whenever in a raid for the sheer relevant tank stats we buff.<BR></DIV>

Eepop
12-03-2005, 01:05 AM
My guild doesnt raid a whole lot right now, but in general we balance the groups to match the mob.  HP is important, but other factors can certainly play a very important part. Overall I would say it is borderline foolish to put the defiler ahead of a mystic into the MT group on the basis of a few more HP.  In general manner of defensive addition, the Mystic beats the Defiler hands down. If nothing else...when the need arises, Oberon is group only and Maelestrom of Dismay is raid wide. <div></div>

Mystiq
12-03-2005, 01:58 AM
<P>I am in the main tank group for my guild about 90% of the time. It's a good place for a Mystic to be, and any guild not utilizing their shamans to this end might want to reconsider their configuration. We have no defilers in the guild, so I can't really comment their effectiveness in a raid, but we have more regular Mystics than just me now. I would venture to say a Mystic is best kept in a group that has some significance in a raid, like a group with a tanking fighter, as opposed to one just thrown together with the DPS classes or whatever.</P> <P>Something I've started recently is a debuff group. Debuffing raid mobs is often essential to success, and its importance should not be overlooked. Our debuffs, and other casters' debuff effectiveness is both governed by the upgrade level of our spells, and by the ordination skill. Troubadors and Warlocks are the only classes with buffs that effect ordination and other spell casting skills, effectively raising the skill max and our debuffing power. This helps us land spells tough, high level raid mobs, and reduces the fizzle rate as well. </P> <P>Anyways, stick your shamans and necros in a group with a Troub and a Warlock (and throw your other main casters in if there's room) and you have another excellent application for our class. While the MT group shaman can focus on warding and healing, the debuff group shaman(s) can stay focused on keeping the mob fully debuffed for the duration of the fight.</P>

BBouch
12-03-2005, 10:07 AM
Hard to answer this quest straight out. Really is a question of Defilers versus Mystics. Shammys in MT group is a must obviously. Here are some considerations: -Pre LU16 Defilers definately Buffed the Tank HP more. Still have to check it post LU16. -Defilers Ward just as well as Mystics -Mystics Direct heal cast times are faster then Defilers. -Defilers Direct heal for more then mystics -Defilers Debuff better then Mystics primarly because of their Debuff Slow spell... which is VITAL in raids. -Mystics can Debuff Group Slow, Defiler cannot. This is a bit of a waste if u have a mezzer. Most T6 group named Epics u dont have enuf time to debuff Group slow anyway. If you have both available, I prefer to put in the defiler into the MT group and my Mystic where needed. Reason is because I believe Mystic pets heal more efficiently then the defiler's group regen ward, and hence is better then defiler at keeping a group alive. (Haven't number crunched but pretty certain about it... group wards do nothing for AE while HoT at least does help). This is especially important when raids are low on healers and have both classes available. Other then that, it's similar. I have not tested resist comparisions of poison and disease as yet, but I think they should be very similar. Regardless of the above, player skill is most important. You want the most experienced one in the MT group rather. <div></div>

BBouch
12-03-2005, 10:10 AM
(Haven't number crunched but pretty certain about it... group wards do nothing for AE while HoT at least does help) Bah. I meant to say with regard to AE DoTs. Defiler group regen ward (ancient spell) is still usefull to stack with group ward against DD AE blasts. <div></div>

TheRealMo
12-04-2005, 01:40 PM
<span>I'm in MT group most of the time.  Our ability to buff STR, STA, AGI, HP,  & physical dmg mitigation is useful versus any raid mob . And against poison & disease using mobs, we are  even better. </span><div></div>

druidnecro
12-04-2005, 07:17 PM
<P>I have to admit, I like being in the MT group. I picked a mystic at creation because I wanted to have a needed class. I played a ranger then a necro when EQ1 was first released. While I had fun with both, it was like a new game when I made a shaman. </P> <P>It kind of ticks me off though, that Defilers buff raw HPs and we mainly buff Stamina. Our top 2 MT's have around 250ish Stamina. Mystics with adept 3's buff 116 Stamina. Once the MT hits 300 stamina, the benefits are highly reduced. In other words, about 50% of our stat we buff the best gets lost <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>The Mystic was supposed to be "the buffer" while the Defiler was "the de-buffer". Somehow/someway this seems to have gotten lost in Sony's eyes. You can check the numbers if you want but, Defilers buff approx. 1700 raw HP's, we buff about 850. Yes we buff some agility that they don't (51 at adept3) but take the defiler away from MT and his stats stink.</P> <P>Add on top of this all the Master defiler spells that drop compared to Master mystic spells. I have seen at least 5 defiler vs. 0 mystic Masters in the last week. Next time you are at the broker, do a search for T6 Master defiler spells. There was litterally 2 pages of them the other day on my server. Only master spells for mystic were T5 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <DIV>I am convinced we are the ugly stepchild of the healing class. Not only are we not the best buffers of the healing slasses, we're not even the best buffing shaman!</DIV>

Darkstu
12-04-2005, 11:41 PM
Ya, our MT is constantly at max sta with just bards buffs.  So defiler is the obvious choice to put in the MT group.  And about the masters for mystics the disparity is quite large on both shamans on my server.  Hardly see either defiler or mystic on broker even after the mass influx of t6 masters.  Although I did get gasping spirit, umbral sacrement, and foretelling out of the increased drop rates.  At the moment Umbral Attendant is on the broker for 55pp lol.

druidnecro
12-05-2005, 12:37 AM
Picked up Umbral attendant Master 1 this morning for 8P. Got lucky I guess. Heals for up to 250 a tick, very nice

Darkt0wer
12-05-2005, 10:12 AM
<DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>I used to be in the MT group, but now that we have a couple 60 Defiles I find myself in the ST group most of the time.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Defiles can buff for ~1000 more HPs than me, also have bigger heals, ward just as well, debuff better, and can buff resistances just as well.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>It seems like we should be a little better at one of those.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I don’t ever see my Mystic back in the MT group if there is a Defiler online.</FONT></P></DIV>

trin ka
12-05-2005, 10:53 PM
<DIV>Our lvl 60 guardian, me(lvl 58 mystic) and our lvl 55 Templar are always together. With her reactives plus my master 2 and adept 3 wards its awesome. Avatar, adept 3, runic adept 3, Fortelling/Umbral mettle and all my other buffs adept 3, guess I'll have to wait till a defiler joins our raid to see if he can buff our guardian more than I can. But, having played a healer to lvl 58, and having 1 other alt(lvl 38 warlock) I gotta say, healers are way fun to play. My warlock kind bores me..stand back and cast dmg...I want to bring up another healer..was thinking Defiler.</DIV><p>Message Edited by trin kahl on <span class=date_text>12-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:53 AM</span>

thedu
12-06-2005, 12:26 AM
Typically, it's been situational in my guild. There is higher level Mystic then that's often paired within the MT group, but it's always dependent on what we are tackling. Sometimes, I'm in a group that's critical, either in a secondary or primary role. 

trin ka
12-06-2005, 12:46 AM
<DIV>Yeah...if the ma is in the 2nd group I'm told to ward him...but mostly our templar takes care of the assisit's and I'm on the MT and the paper bags. Last week when we were doing the everfrost drakota I was put in 2nd group for my group ward. That aoe is nasty if you dont get out of the room on time.</DIV>

Banditman
12-06-2005, 12:49 AM
People still try to outrun Ar'ticae's AE?  I'm speechless.

trin ka
12-06-2005, 01:10 AM
<DIV>Not everyone in this game is as uber as you. The dragon went down, we got his shard, whether we did it how banditman does it or not, the final outcome was the same, dead dragon. People still flame posts for no reason? I'm speechless.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by trin kahl on <SPAN class=date_text>12-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:16 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by trin kahl on <span class=date_text>12-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:18 PM</span>

Banditman
12-06-2005, 02:16 AM
That wooshing sound was the point going right over your head.Ar'ticae is there for a reason.  To teach you how to deal with what is coming further in the quest.You can't deal with Darathar's AE that way.Guilds that tried running from Ar'ticae's AE inevitably realized that they needed to learn how to deal with being in range.  This isn't about being "uber" or "l33t" or anything like that.This is about learning the value of resist gear, the classes that can buff the appropriate resists and putting all that in place before you go any further.I certainly don't consider my first Ar'ticae kill uber by any means.  I was L47.  But I did manage to push my CR to 3000 unbuffed, which put me well over 5k in the encounter.Instead of running from the problem, face it head on and you'll be in a far better position down the road when the truly challenging encounters come up.

trin ka
12-06-2005, 02:23 AM
<DIV>And that noise you just heard was Roon laughing.</DIV>

Fidjit
12-06-2005, 08:32 AM
<div></div>I never raided much before LU13 but the guild I am in now consistently raids on the weekends.  As a level 55 Mystic with a 56 & 60 Defiler ahead of me I don't get in the MT group much.  Personally though I almost prefer healing a second group (or trying to) and putting Torpor with my ST ward on the MT of group one and getting to use my debuffs.  That said, put in Group1 ANYTIME!!<div></div><p>Message Edited by Fidjit on <span class=date_text>12-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:35 PM</span>

BBouch
12-07-2005, 07:46 AM
Wow Fidjit Lvl 25 and Raiding? And got Topor? Really uber! Teach me O Master! <div></div>

Fidjit
12-07-2005, 09:34 AM
<div></div>Oo did I say 25, of course I meant 55 <span>:smileyhappy:</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Fidjit on <span class=date_text>12-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:35 PM</span>

mR_jOHNNO
12-07-2005, 06:17 PM
Has anyone noticed anything ? Ive spent the last few raids i've been on expecting to die as soon as the mt looses agro..Yet tonight when the mt lost agro or got killed I was almost the last one in the raid to get killed .. Has there been a recent reduction to hate generated by mystics on raids ir did I get lucky <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

thedu
12-08-2005, 01:57 AM
I had a similar experience in shimmering citadel this weekend. I ran away a little bit when raid was being wiped and I didn't get hit. But of course next time I got wiped also; I think this has more do with the Mob, distance, etc...too many factors I think... <div></div>