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Fashion_dealer
12-21-2004, 04:50 PM
<DIV>I am still including weakness in my list of debuffs at 27, however it has been grey for a long time. It still lands on mobs but is it doing anything and should I bother?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cheers</DIV>

BigDa
12-21-2004, 05:04 PM
<DIV>I think the answer is, as long as it lands it's doing something and it doesn't use much power *shrug*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's all relative, though.  The debuff it does is probably a drop in the ocean against high-level monsters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me, I just used it when I had excess power and time and until I ran out of space on my 3 hot bars <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

Banditman
12-21-2004, 08:28 PM
<DIV>I moved it out of my hotbars once I got Delusion.  I simply don't have the time to cast 3 debuffs per mob.  There are times when 2 is pressing it.</DIV>

Scrav
12-22-2004, 06:28 AM
If you have time to cast it - use it. I would recommend making it the 3rd debuff in prioity. The con color of a spell isn't really an indication of how useful it would be.

Banditman
12-22-2004, 08:25 PM
<DIV>Actually it is.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a dynamic that should be easy to understand.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you get a spell, Weakness for example, you are less than L10.  So, in order for Weakness not to be overpowered at that level, it is given a value of say -5 to STR.  Now, as you upgrade the spell and gain levels, you eventually increase it to App III Weakness and at L12 it now takes away -13 STR.  But at that point it stops.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At L12, a -13 STR to a mob is probably going to matter.  The mob will do a little less damage, and since the HP of your friends are much lower, it can be a difference maker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, fast forward to L25.  Mobs now have a LOT more STR and hit a LOT harder.  Taking away 12 STR at this level is only of negligible value.  The HP numbers involved are much higher, and Weakness really isn't doing anything but taking Mana and time to cast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While the developers have done a good job of letting spells scale up as compared to EQLive, you still have to deal with a point of uselessness on every spell.</DIV>

Scrav
12-23-2004, 03:52 AM
<blockquote><hr>Banditman wrote:<DIV>Actually it is.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>This is a dynamic that should be easy to understand.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>When you get a spell, Weakness for example, you are less than L10. So, in order for Weakness not to be overpowered at that level, it is given a value of say -5 to STR. Now, as you upgrade the spell and gain levels, you eventually increase it to App III Weakness and at L12 it now takes away -13 STR. But at that point it stops.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>At L12, a -13 STR to a mob is probably going to matter. The mob will do a little less damage, and since the HP of your friends are much lower, it can be a difference maker.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>Now, fast forward to L25. Mobs now have a LOT more STR and hit a LOT harder. Taking away 12 STR at this level is only of negligible value. The HP numbers involved are much higher, and Weakness really isn't doing anything but taking Mana and time to cast.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>While the developers have done a good job of letting spells scale up as compared to EQLive, you still have to deal with a point of uselessness on every spell.</div><hr></blockquote>Is it the mastery skill of that spell that determines how long a spell will scale with level/skill?Unfortunately because we don't know how the spell works it will be diificult to prove if it is still useful or not. For all we know it could remove a percentage of the mobs strength and not a constant value. Taking 12 strength away may not seem like a big deal given the reliance of strengh for combat abilities, but what if it was 25 strrengh (assumming that mob stats follow a similar progression to ours)?

Muad`D
12-23-2004, 01:29 PM
<DIV>I am not sure if I ever really used weakness all that often. At level 27, keening haze, dellusion, and cry of the ancients is plenty of debuffing such that ancestral ward app3 will last nearly full length against mobs in varsoon that are orange^^ and red^^ to all in the group.</DIV>

BigDa
12-23-2004, 04:20 PM
<DIV>Also, at some point above greyness, you actually start getting a "The target is too powerful for this spell to take effect" or some such message.</DIV>

Banditman
12-23-2004, 09:05 PM
<DIV>It doesn't even have to be gray to get the "Too Powerful" message.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That message has to do with the raw level of the mob.  WH for instance only works on mobs up to L29 or 30.</DIV>

leatia
12-24-2004, 03:17 AM
The only authoritative argument that can be formed with EQ2 will be with the inclusion of massive numbers of encounters with logs with all other surrounding elements identical, but with and without Weakness applied. Everything else is just guess work.Give the random nature of EQ (and most RPG-style games), it will take a substantial amount of log parsing to be definitive.As it stands right now, players may perceive a benefit or perceive no benefit. Without hard numbers, it's just superfluous. As Weakness IS a debuff, costs little power to cast at higher levels, it doesn't hurt to throw it on if you are twiddling your thumbs during a battle. As already noted, Delusion is a stronger debuff and if there is any choice in the matter- the higher level, stronger debuffs should always be preferred until we have some hard numbers to illustrate exactly what impact each spell does.

Triyton
12-30-2004, 02:24 AM
<DIV>Yesterday I was on my first real outing in the Thundering steps and we were a party of 6 fighting giants, up to red^^.  I'm an L21 mystic.  I would try to get in a Wailing Haze (my only combat slow) and a Delusion (decrease strength and stamina) towards the start of the battle, then I found I might not even <U>need</U> to ward our beserker-tank.  I just had to recast them once mid battle.  Perhaps there was a heal over time or reactive heal going on there too from the other priest in the group, but the tank sure took lots of damage if the ward lapsed without those two debuffs in place.  Now against a group of 3-4 giants, it would take a chunk of power to cast it on each opponent, but against a single enemy it was fantastic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>