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zaneluke
12-01-2004, 06:53 PM
<DIV><FONT color=#ffff33 size=4>The slow and weaken spells seem to be working pretty damned good. I can notice a difference in both spells while grouping in stormhold.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33 size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33 size=4>I end up with more power at the end of a battles using the slow and weaken spells because the mobs go down faster and the tanks do not take as much damage. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33 size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff33 size=4>I still think that a good cleric/mystic healing combo in a group is flat out awsome. </FONT></DIV>

Merrygr
12-01-2004, 07:23 PM
<DIV>Was this perception or did you parse it? Did you test with and without debuffs in same group?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have tried the debuffs a ferw time, and have never seen any kind of difference. Sometimes I think I have seen an effect, but it has always turned out to be that particular fight that for some reason went easier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not doubting you, it is just that my experience has not shown any gain in using them. Then again, I doubt that they do anything in the first place. So it could be that if I see a hard encounter I just think I have proven my point and if the encounter was easy I say it was fluke.</DIV>

ogg
12-01-2004, 09:43 PM
<blockquote><hr>Merrygrin wrote:<DIV>Was this perception or did you parse it? Did you test with and without debuffs in same group?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I have tried the debuffs a ferw time, and have never seen any kind of difference. Sometimes I think I have seen an effect, but it has always turned out to be that particular fight that for some reason went easier.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I'm not doubting you, it is just that my experience has not shown any gain in using them. Then again, I doubt that they do anything in the first place. So it could be that if I see a hard encounter I just think I have proven my point and if the encounter was easy I say it was fluke.</DIV><hr></blockquote>When you say "debuffs" do you mean all of them, or just all except slows? You can easily test wailing haze by pulling a mob, letting it beat on you and watch it's attack animations, then slow it. The mob will noticably attack you slower - even it's attack animations will be further spaced.

Banditman
12-01-2004, 09:54 PM
<DIV>Aye - Slow is the absolute easiest to see the value of.  Cast Slow, the mobs definitely hit less often, visibly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The others, you really would need a parse to see, but I suspect they do have value over time, and I continue to use my other debuffs on any mob I feel needs to be Slowed.</DIV>

Merrygr
12-02-2004, 03:50 AM
<DIV>To be quite honest, I don't care if I can see the mob hit slower. I'm still only interested in the power save vs power usage. Does a mob slow down enough so that I will end the fight with more power if I use the slow than if I don't?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I said, I have not seen this myself, but I kind of turn a blind eye towards the posibility that it does help.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When solo I'm pretty sure it doesn't. My hp is never a limiting factor when solo. I might need one ward at the most. I do however use up most of my power unless against a blue or green con mob. I'm almost positive that I would still need the one ward and even though it means I end up with a bit more hp at end of fight I have used more power and have a longer regen.</DIV>

Nightb
12-02-2004, 04:19 AM
<DIV>It ultimatly does help. Its very noticable as well if you pay attention. I understand where you are getting at too. YES it does help with power. Especially if you are soloing or are the main healer. Slow > Less Dmg landed > more HP for yourself (solo) or the tank (in a group) > less healing needed > saved power on your part. Double that up with a weakness line spell and you are golden. Using the same formula listed above but adding the fact that when the mob actually does land a melee hit, it doesnt do as much dmg as normal. So shammy/mystic's slow/weaken combo is, from what ive seen, the most effective debuff combo in the game. Granted I havnt seen many Defilers in action... Im SURE theirs is even more detrimental. Personally shammies are one of the most useful classes in the game because of this certain combo alone. Adding in the healing and dps abilities as well.</DIV>

Ghartan
12-02-2004, 04:49 AM
<DIV>I havent parsed but I use adept 1's of both Delusion and Wailing Haze and there is a definite effect.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Was in a group a bit ago killing Giants and the healing needed during a fight was very noticable when the debuffs stuck or not.</DIV>

zaneluke
12-02-2004, 04:49 PM
<DIV> <DIV>Yes I have tested it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not with a group. Too many variables. Test it solo. I usually test with even con mobs. I used the shore crabs in Thunder for this testing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the slow and delusion spells i ended up killing the monsters faster and had more hp/power left after the fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When i was using it in a group it was hard to tell if it was working. I use them quite a bit in stormhold and both the healer and myself were never in any danger of running out of power.</DIV></DIV>

Artem
12-02-2004, 05:22 PM
<DIV>dunno if anyone has noticed this but if you cast delusion it actually stacks itself, so you will see mobs hp plumit every time you cast it after the initial cast, i dont even nuke anymore just ward, slow, del, ward, del, del etc</DIV><p>Message Edited by Artemis on <span class=date_text>12-02-2004</span> <span class=time_text>04:23 AM</span>

Merrygr
12-02-2004, 06:08 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Artemis wrote:<BR> <DIV>dunno if anyone has noticed this but if you cast delusion it actually stacks itself, so you will see mobs hp plumit every time you cast it after the initial cast, i dont even nuke anymore just ward, slow, del, ward, del, del etc</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Artemis on <SPAN class=date_text>12-02-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:23 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>If that is true I hope you bugged it. I can't imagine that being intended.</P> <P>I will see if I can't try out the debuffs today. Pitty I don't have a parser as it is impossible to make an accurate statement without one.</P> <P> </P>

CorynX
12-03-2004, 05:56 AM
Slows are always effective, IMHO! =p But, yeah, the first slow: Wailing Haze - is a bit weak compared to what comes later on. Keep in mind, though, that Wailing Haze is a SHAMAN spell line. It's the slow we share with the Defiler sub-class, and it's a less effective one. The MYSTIC line slow which starts with Keening Haze is essentially completely different, cause it's inherent to the Mystic sub completely. The Defilers get their own "slows", as components of their other spells, like Fulginous Sphere. Hope that helps?(posted this in reply to a sim thread on interealms)

Darm
12-06-2004, 02:50 AM
<DIV>Have any of you confirmed which is the better slow - Wailing Haze or Gray Wind?  I am assuming that since WH is straight slow, it would be a more effective spell than the combo cold DD + slow you get with GW.  I'm never sure which to use in a fight, so I typically use Gray Wind since its a higher level spell, and I have a higher version of it...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks,</DIV> <DIV>Darmas</DIV>

Artem
12-06-2004, 11:41 AM
<DIV>grey wind is a snare, not a slow, it affects thier movment speed, not attack</DIV>