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Rougejenn
11-27-2004, 01:03 AM
<DIV>Can anyone tell me some good items I can quest or buy to help with my power pool.  I get drained so fast casting ward on group and the MT that I am drained after a bit if we multiple mobs to defeat.  ANY help would be great thanks!!</DIV>

Tshanni Da
11-27-2004, 01:12 AM
<DIV>If you're pulling appropriate mobs, and your tank is doing his or her job managing aggro, you shouldn't need to be warding the entire group, just the MT and perhaps occasionally yourself or another member who momentarily draws aggro.</DIV>

A
11-27-2004, 02:45 AM
<DIV>When would be a good situation to use group ward and how do the spells stack?  Does the individual ward override the group on the single target while the group protects the rest of the group?</DIV>

Blakpyre
11-27-2004, 03:28 AM
<DIV>if you are going to cast the group ward do it when </DIV> <DIV>a) you need to drag aggro off another party member (caster etc.) as in battle if you cast it you will most certainly get aggro</DIV> <DIV>b) before a battle and you are not sure if the MT can handle all the aggro from a group mob, some may peel and wack another party member</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The individual ward will stack with the group ward, so don't worry about when/who you have to cast it on.Be sure to cast it on the tank before he enters combat, or like any other heal you will draw aggro.  Keep it on the MT at all times, after he has taunted well, and you will notice there will be far less need for 'emergency' heals</DIV>

Kerr
11-28-2004, 03:35 PM
<DIV>Firstly I usually find if you let the fighter (MT as you refer to him/her) deal out and take a few hits at the start of combat, when you ward yuo don't usually take aggro. And from then on, assuming you don't just spam heals/wards/contagion/etc. you should be fine to reward as they expire.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Secondly as for the appropriate usage of group ward, I can only speak for what I have found. I only use this if multiple party members are being attacked. From memory, the power cost of multiple ward (I am only a shaman, so am basing this on the Shaman wards) is cheaper than 2 of the single wards. So if I am only warding the MT, I will use single ward and then continue my pitiful hand to hand attacks (guaranteed not to draw aggro off the MT lol). If I see a couple of health bars heading west, I will use group ward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grishna</DIV> <DIV>Ogre Shaman</DIV>

Simm
11-29-2004, 06:22 PM
<DIV>Alternately you can get some better Drink - ie Not Store Bought or Summoned</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last night after I made a batch of food/drink I went out hunting and let me tell ya my power regen was much better then others with summoned/store bought.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure exact numbers as I believe they differ from level to level but with some of the Drink I made ( Lvl 20 Provisioner ) I Was getting 68 power per tick while not in combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently even on Oasis not many are selling player made food/drink but be sure to pick some up if you see em for sale you wont be dissapointed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another priest type in our group was using summoned Drink and after 1 battle and we all were basically oop when I regened to full the other priest had almost 2 bubbles to go  (1.8 or so )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

se
11-29-2004, 11:23 PM
If everyone is running out of power then perhaps you are fighting things that extend your groups ability (which is great, I'm all for it, just expect power shortage and deaths from time to time).If you are running out of power while others in the group still have lots of power then perhaps some tactical changes are in order. There are many things you can do to try and be efficient with your power. The biggest of which is to try and keep everything focused on one tank. This isn't always your fault and isn't always possible. Improper use of taunts (it takes some practice to adjust to this game), fighting multiple linked groups at once , and/or someone not controlling their aggro can lead to you having to heal multiple people and that will wear down even the best equipped power pools.I try to keep group warding to a minimum. It's obviously necessary at times but not often.Knowing your most efficient healing spells and trying to use that/those for most/all of your healing also helps. Wards are obviously our best hp/power ratio spells. You can't stick to them solely (some spell damage is not prevented by wards) but you can use them exclusively when they work.Lastly in my opinion, when fighting large groups of mobs at a time it's important for the other damage dealers to assist and burn down the first couple as fast as possible without gaining aggro. The quicker you can get rid of a few mobs damaging your tank the less damage you have to prevent/heal. Once you are down to 2 or 3 mobs left to kill things become much less chaotic and easier to control and as long as the healer has good mana it's a good chance of winning the battle.

Elryck
12-01-2004, 06:02 AM
<DIV>The game is still sorta new and everyone is still learning the best way to handle different situtions, but I think that at some point it will become common knowledge that using wards in place of heals is very ineffecent.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You cannot just compare the hp/power ratio of wards and heals.   When a mob hits a player that has a ward, the amount of points removed from the ward is much higher than the amount of damage the tank would have taken without the ward.  This is because the tank would migrate much of the potentional damage, but the ward take all of the damage.   So it would take less healing to keep the tank alive than using wards to keep the tank alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wards are still usefull, but I think you will find using them as a replacment for a heal causes you to use more of your power in the long run.</DIV>

Kono
12-01-2004, 07:00 AM
<DIV>Also, use your debuffs. Wailing/Keening Haze, Weakness, Delusion....they make a noticeable difference in damage, and they don't really take that much power in comparison to the power you'd be using to heal/ward vs. undebuffed mobs. For multiple mobs, use <Tab> to cycle through the mobs in the current encounter so you can debuff them...very useful when fighting Giants etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd have to do some raw number comparison, but it seems like i tend to spend less mana using wards (Spectral Ward app3) than i do relying on Healing Ritual (adept 1). Also, because wards don't care about AC, they really help when over-nuking mages/over-zealous healers take agro.</DIV>

zaneluke
12-01-2004, 06:48 PM
<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>22 mystic here, not a great deal of experience on the subject, but I will add my 2 cents in. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I put ward on the tank before he pulls, a good tank will let you know when he is pulling and once he gets in sync with you, will wait until you ward him. As soon as he gets back I slow the mob and depending on the mob i weaken it too. Then he is ready for his second ward. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Target MT,ward,assist,slow,weaken,target MT ward. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I only use group ward when more than two people are taking damage. I cast that and then cast ward on MT right away since is is going to be a taunting machine because of the multiple members taking damage. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Get wisdom items, they are your friend it seems. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV>

Banditman
12-01-2004, 10:00 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zaneluke wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Target MT,ward,assist,slow,weaken,target MT ward. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <P> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You are not using implied targeting.  It's your friend, use it.</P> <P>Once you target the MT, there is no need to switch.</P> <P>If you cast a "Beneficial" spell such as a Ward, Heal, Cure . . . it hits the MT, which is what you want.</P> <P>However, when you cast a "Detrimental" spell with the MT targeted, implied targeting takes over for you.  It knows that you don't want to Slow your MT, so it applies the "Detrimental" to whatever the MT is currently beating on.</P> <P> </P>

Tubbe
12-02-2004, 12:08 AM
<DIV>I hardly ever use Group heal or group ward, these are useful only in very few circumstances, I also use Wailing Haze and Debuffs very sparingly, maybe one a battle, usually just Contagion (Which I still can't find anything above Apprentice two for) Ward and instant heals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Go Ogre Mystics!</DIV>

Karla
12-02-2004, 12:39 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elryck wrote:<BR> <DIV>The game is still sorta new and everyone is still learning the best way to handle different situtions, but I think that at some point it will become common knowledge that using wards in place of heals is very ineffecent.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You cannot just compare the hp/power ratio of wards and heals.   When a mob hits a player that has a ward, the amount of points removed from the ward is much higher than the amount of damage the tank would have taken without the ward.  This is because the tank would migrate much of the potentional damage, but the ward take all of the damage.   So it would take less healing to keep the tank alive than using wards to keep the tank alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wards are still usefull, but I think you will find using them as a replacment for a heal causes you to use more of your power in the long run.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>You are wrong.</P> <P>My spectural ward app1 can soak about 300-400 damage.</P> <P>My Healing ritual which is adept 1 i am pretty sure can heal for about 240 damage.  ( I am pretty sure it is adept 1)</P> <P>Mana on the healing ritual is nealr 1/2 to 3/4 a bub of mana for me, and my ward is maybe 1/4 bub of mana.</P> <P>ill verfiy all this tonight.</P>

zaneluke
12-02-2004, 04:54 PM
<DIV>I do not trust the implied target system, i am old school and still like to f key my target and assist. It is just a hold over habit from eq1.</DIV>

Merrygr
12-02-2004, 06:37 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zaneluke wrote:<BR> <DIV>I do not trust the implied target system, i am old school and still like to f key my target and assist. It is just a hold over habit from eq1.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Trust me on this. Try to adjust to implied target. It is the best system I have seen so far. Not saying there are not better ones, just that I have not seen them. It took me a while to get used to it, but now I love it.</P> <P>I use assist a lot with this too. Target MT, assist and do my heals. By doing this I have the mob targeted and my heals lands on the PC the mob is hitting. This is something one has to be a bit carefull with, but it is usefull in a lot of situations.</P> <P> <BR></P>

Karla
12-02-2004, 08:29 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Karlace wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elryck wrote:<BR> <DIV>The game is still sorta new and everyone is still learning the best way to handle different situtions, but I think that at some point it will become common knowledge that using wards in place of heals is very ineffecent.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You cannot just compare the hp/power ratio of wards and heals.   When a mob hits a player that has a ward, the amount of points removed from the ward is much higher than the amount of damage the tank would have taken without the ward.  This is because the tank would migrate much of the potentional damage, but the ward take all of the damage.   So it would take less healing to keep the tank alive than using wards to keep the tank alive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wards are still usefull, but I think you will find using them as a replacment for a heal causes you to use more of your power in the long run.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>You are wrong.</P> <P>My spectural ward app1 can soak about 300-400 damage.</P> <P>My Healing ritual which is adept 1 i am pretty sure can heal for about 240 damage.  ( I am pretty sure it is adept 1)</P> <P>Mana on the healing ritual is nealr 1/2 to 3/4 a bub of mana for me, and my ward is maybe 1/4 bub of mana.</P> <P>ill verfiy all this tonight.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Unfortunately i left my data at home, but what I found out was</P> <P>My healing ritual app2 heals about 3-4 hp per mana, and my spectuarla ward app1 prevent about 6 -7 damage per mana.</P> <P>Now does this mean that ward is superior to heals?  NO!</P>

Banditman
12-02-2004, 10:21 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zaneluke wrote:<BR> <DIV>I do not trust the implied target system, i am old school and still like to f key my target and assist. It is just a hold over habit from eq1.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>You are crazy.  Implied targeting even works for melee.</P> <P>The caveat to implied targeting is that your MT has to hold aggro well and be the "leader" of your group.  Not actually the "leader", but he has to be the one you look to for those mid battle decisions on switching targets and things like that.</P> <P>If you want to see a real meatgrinder in action, get yourself a Warrior MT with 3 scout archtype DPS who are doing nothing but targeting the MT and hitting the auto attack.  It's un-freaking real.  No delay in going from target to target and chewing up the mobs.</P>

Trathe
12-02-2004, 10:22 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Merrygrin wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zaneluke wrote:<BR> <DIV>I do not trust the implied target system, i am old school and still like to f key my target and assist. It is just a hold over habit from eq1.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Trust me on this. Try to adjust to implied target. It is the best system I have seen so far. Not saying there are not better ones, just that I have not seen them. It took me a while to get used to it, but now I love it.</P> <P>I use assist a lot with this too. Target MT, assist and do my heals. By doing this I have the mob targeted and my heals lands on the PC the mob is hitting. This is something one has to be a bit carefull with, but it is usefull in a lot of situations.</P> <P><BR> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/Thread-Hijack-mode</P> <P>21 Shaman here and while implied Targeting is great I use it along w/ simple targeting as well.  Since my play style is sort of in response to the power question...</P> <P>Step1: Ward MT</P> <P>Step2: Wait for MT Agro after pull Slow the MT target w/ implied targeting then Ward MT</P> <P>Step 3: This is where I deviate from time to time all depends on situation.  But, what i try to do is in cases of group pulls is that I try to slow all other mobs in the group.  If the tank is keeping good agro control you can sort of use implied targeting here as well from the mob side.</P> <P>I have found it is easier to time your wards w/ a debuff mob of MOBs as well as being power efficient in my opinion.  </P> <P>But there are times where the proverbial fecal matter hits the fan and I just try to keep ward on the MT and it is much harder w/ out the debuffs.</P>

Blakpyre
12-02-2004, 10:24 PM
<DIV>/agree with Karl on this one - playing about with the ward/heal mana to damage shield/heal ratio -I found that I didnt see a lot of difference if I strictly 'healed' in combat vs warding - BUT</DIV> <DIV>what I did find was that:</DIV> <DIV>1 - there was less panic "HEAL ME HEAL ME" when warded and not watching that health bar go down</DIV> <DIV>2 - although the mana ratio seemed the same the higher level heals had more delay - leading to some scary 'low bars' as you cast.</DIV> <DIV>3- casting a ward BEFORE combat = no aggro - that option of course is no there with a strict 'heal' .</DIV> <DIV>4- the group heal SCARES THE HELK out of everyone when the spell goes off <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV>

Muad`D
12-02-2004, 11:14 PM
<DIV>This is my set up as a 23 mystic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>>Ward MT</DIV> <DIV>>MT pulls</DIV> <DIV>>MT Taunts</DIV> <DIV>>Slow Mob, Ward MT</DIV> <DIV>>Contagion</DIV> <DIV>>Refresh Ward, Slow, Contagion as needed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Doing this I almost never have problems with running out of power. I usually group with a secondary healer as well so if you are not the MT and you are pulling aggro, don't expect to get a heal from me. Think of it as my method of forcing people to learn aggro management. I will take a little xp debt if it means that someone will start better managing their aggro.</DIV>

Banditman
12-02-2004, 11:56 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Muad`Dib wrote:<BR> <DIV> I usually group with a secondary healer as well so if you are not the MT and you are pulling aggro, don't expect to get a heal from me. Think of it as my method of forcing people to learn aggro management. <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Gah - I'll do that if I'm the ONLY healer.  If you don't know how to keep your aggro under control you learn real fast or find yourself LFG again real fast.<BR>

Ryegar
12-03-2004, 01:50 PM
The main group of guys I work with is 4 from our guild, we are all on a voice server. This makes it easy to keep things running smoothly. We are myself a 24 mystic, 24 ranger, 23 warrior, 22 monk. We try to pick up a templar and an enchanter. I use very few spells, the main and first is group ward, then I work with healing and warding the MT. Occasionaly I will toss in a Grey Wind or an offensive spell, but I dont use any of the slow spells. I have very rarely run out of power or even below half, and if your group knows to target with the MT while mezzing the rest of a mob you should have no problems with power. The main thing I see is not so much power but how well your tank can handle the mob with his/her armor. Also having a templar releases me from having to worry to much on healing. Possibly one of the worst thing you can do is smite. At higher levels the damage you is minimal compared to what you could use your power to assist with. To me it all comes down to timing the ward to hit just as the mob gets pulled into range and having guys know what to do more so than trying to cast a ton of ward, slow and heal spells. Obviously everyone has their own ideas on what works and what doesn't. It depends also on who you are grouped with as to what you as a mystic are needed to do.