Warden debuff and shield

[Barand]

Since LU19 we lost our last debuff. they were weak since they were lvl 20-, but still a nice addition in raid when we have nothing to cast.Now in raid we can't do anything except nuking when not healing and thats not something really good for keeping mana up.Is that really intended that we are the only healer that bring no debuff in a raid ? and that we bring buff inferior to other healer ?We are good at healing but other classe are also good at it whereas in term of debuff (and buff) we are very weak. Can we have an answer on this question ?Another question concern our damage shield. It does around 20 30 damage at master lvl, don't you thing it is very low for a master spell ?  Upgrading from adept I to master I you gain something like 10 more damage ... Can't you do something that give us a reason to upgrade this spell ?<div></div>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>TBH: I'm not really concerned with our Damage Shield.  It doesn't even stack with Furys one or anything, this skill is just sorta worthless IMO.We don't have any *huge* buffs to bring to the group.  Our + Defense Buff doesn't do anything vs 70% of the epics in DoF (Orange Con = Ignore Avoidance Basically).  We have no major Mitigation or HP buffs (which is all that seems to matter in this oh so wonderful combat system).To be honest- What I want to see for Wardens is defensive type heat/cold debuffs.  For example: Instead of our -heat/cold resist debuff, do like -10% heat/cold damage from mob debuff.  Most would say "Yeah, But then what would we have to use on non-heat/cold mobs?  /shrug.  IDK, But atleast we'd have SOMETHING."We honestly need something to bring to the main tank group, sure we have great heals, are buffs are good (Spores/Instinct(Good for countering MT's defensive stance) & Our Temp Ward/Heat&ColdBuffs). Yeah- we almost always get put in the MT group.  But *sometimes* Furys get put in over us just for their temp mitigation buff.I honestly think we need a little more use with Sandstorm/Duststorm vs Orange Con Epics.  Maybe like a debuff instead of the stun?Like: When any of casters group members is struck with a melee weapon, this spell has a 20% chance to decrease the mobs attack speed and dps by __%?It just sucks to join a group, not see any HP's fly up, (sure avoidance goes up, but that doesn't really matter) or atleast some mitigation./shrug-  Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my class.  But I don't feel we bring as much to the raiding scene as we should.

[Barand]

thats exaclty how i feel, we are good and i love my character but we miss something that make us useful. We bring nothing special...About the shield this is a separate issue i find it also  useless but it isn t worth making a thread on it since other thread on useless skill (tunare watch + nature respite for exemple) were never adressed<div></div>

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<div></div><p>We bring just as much as any other priest, with maby a few exceptions.</p><p>We dont have debuffs on our nukes, insted we recived a tiny boost to our nuke's damage, we do debuff elemental mitigation with our dot though, we do increase defense (requireing players to kill orange content is plain stupid design imo, so the lack of usefullness for this spell is design error not the spell itself), we provide a heal over time reactive shield for MT,  we provide a group elemental resist buff + ward (regenerating ward) and elemental mitigation buffs, Elemental and Trauma cure, we have a group wide life saver (though it is in serious need of fixing, its use is extremely limited).</p><p>Turnare's Watch (is that it's name?) that we get at 52 really needs to be improved. A longer durration than 15 seconds(perhaps 45 seconds?), preventing death, lowering hate possition for non-fighters by 5 when triggered, and healing target for 25% hp +5% hp every 5 seconds for 1 minute would make this spell highly valuable, keep the 15 minute reuse as this would be a get out of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] free spell = )</p><p>Also, i do not currently have the tree yet, but making it's heal affect all raid members in it's area might improve it's use, since it can be killed by aoe, might as well make it's heal aoe.</p><p>I belive there is a large ammount of inequity amoung the level 52, 55, and 58 spells between the classes, and i hope these get looked into eventually.</p>

[Colossaltitan]

<div></div>I have to disagree with you.Vs Orange Con Epics Wardens bring nothing but heals & minor buffs to the group.Our Elemental Debuff is nothing to speak of in raids, if we are a defensive healer imo, we should have defensive buffs & debuffs.Shamans are a necessitty on raids - where as druids, are a "meh" we have great heals but clerics&shamans can get it done w/o us.To fight an orange con mob, defensive debuffs are the key, Druids have none to speak of.

[Eyes_of_Truth]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Colossaltitan wrote:<div></div>I have to disagree with you.Vs Orange Con Epics Wardens bring nothing but heals & minor buffs to the group.Our Elemental Debuff is nothing to speak of in raids, if we are a defensive healer imo, we should have defensive buffs & debuffs.Shamans are a necessitty on raids - where as druids, are a "meh" we have great heals but clerics&shamans can get it done w/o us.To fight an orange con mob, defensive debuffs are the key, Druids have none to speak of.<hr></blockquote><p>Im just confused i supose, what do shamans/clerics offer that we have no equivilant to?</p><p>I know they both buff hp, where as we buff power (shaman buffs both actually) for single targets, all can buff mitigation (each class has a different side effect on thier group mitigation buff), wardens get a spell mitigation increase for all spell types on their group mitigation buff, our stat buffs wisdom/agility (Mystics is Stamina and str i belive) our spell resistance buffs heat/cold</p><p>there is probly something that they have that makes them more of a nessessity, but what is it?</p>

[Dragonreal]

<div></div><p>1) Wards are the biggest damage mitigators on a raid as they're the first "heals" to take effect by blocking all damage until the ward is used up</p><p>2) Offensive (not defensive) debuffs.. they make the mobs hit slower and for less damage. Our elemental damage debuff on the dot IS a defensive debuff.. ie it debuffs the mobs defenses against elemental.</p>

[missconstrue]

<div></div>i love my warden.  she is my main, but i have to agree with those that say we have less to offer the main tank group then other healers. we have no big heals they are efficient yes but if the tanks are going down fast we have a hard time keeping up not impossible but hard. at this time, i am raiding with my guild and another that join together for the the harder raids and i don't get picked for the mt group ever. they always choose the fury. they love porcupine. not sure why  the developers decided to make sandstorm less than useful in a raid. why does a fury's spell affect epic tagets and not ours. i realize against certain mobs and with different tanks other healers will be better, but at this time we are never better than another healer it seems. we really need something that has some affect on an epic target. some debuff, some really awesome buff.. something that will make us more useful. i picked a warden for their buffs and heals. i love to raid and would like to feel like i had more to add then spam heals. the tree is great but will be much less effective in a few levels after kos comes out. it does not keep up with us as we level. just tired of always being put in last group. kinda like always getting picked last for anything. it doesn't make you feel real good about the your class. i realize a lot of raid leaders are using wardens in the mt group sometimes but many are not as well. make wis a more useful stat or something ..was wondering do other classes debuffs and slows work on epics? i know our snare and root does not  and sandstorm.. welll noone seems to use that on raids anymore. just curious60 warden oasis server<div></div><p>Message Edited by missconstrue on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:56 PM</span></p>

[Wabit]

<div></div><div>as MT i prefer warden over fury for most every fight...  porc is nice and has its uses but it is a 30 sec buff with a decent recast time...</div><div> </div><div>its more about the stats that are buffed...  as a guard int does nothing for me (oh yay my DS procs for 14 instead of 13)...  but wis keeps bumpming the resists up ever so slightly...  also spores helps more than ya might think...  a free HoT running on a separate timer than other heals (its kept me alive a few times)...  not to mention that you buff cold more than heat (like i need more heat resists)... </div><div> </div><div>wardens compliment Guards well, furies compliment paly well...  its the little things that seperate healers...  sanctury for templars, porc for furies, the crazy wisdom buffs for wardens...</div><div> </div><div>its all about rounding the MT out really, sta and str are easily 500+, but without a warden i'm well below the wis cap...</div><div> </div><div>but the most important thing is dogs > cats</div>

[Unmask]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Wabit wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div>but the most important thing is dogs > cats</div><hr></blockquote>You tell 'em!  Clerics and shaman can give you HP and mitigation but only we will give you a paw! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Unmasked on <span class="date_text">02-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:44 AM</span></p>

[Unmask]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Iranos wrote:Another question concern our damage shield. It does around 20 30 damage at master lvl, don't you thing it is very low for a master spell ?  Upgrading from adept I to master I you gain something like 10 more damage ... Can't you do something that give us a reason to upgrade this spell ?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>I'd say you should bump up your INT if thorncoat is that low.  And the gain to thorncoat from upgrading is the same %-wise as our heals, nukes and buffs so I don't see the problem there.  At adept 3 with a 300+ INT the damage shield is about 35-42 or something like that - at master 1/2 it should exceed 50.</p><p>You also need to realize that this damage is done everytime the target is hit and is not mitigated.  It all adds up!</p>

[Treve]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>missconstrue wrote:<div></div>i love my warden.  she is my main, but i have to agree with those that say we have less to offer the main tank group then other healers. we have no big heals they are efficient yes but if the tanks are going down fast we have a hard time keeping up not impossible but hard.<hr></blockquote><p>was a little surprised to read this...warden heals are really awesome...plus the fact that i'm sure you have other healing classes in the raid who should be able to handle the "spike" damage...but our HoT's make their job cake</p><p>Message Edited by Treveur on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:24 PM</span></p>