[Warden] Stop Whinning...

[Zel]

Since DoF I found that my warden is better than before. Sure its a big change with the manner of playing, and somes whinning for unskilled players is compre'hensible....... BUT Warden CAN SOLO any Xp/Named group...I do my job beeing the only healer at level 50-53 (Paladin, Coercer, Wizard, Assassin, Necromancer, and me Warden) in my group with Cyclops, Giants (Named and Trash 58 +++) and other tougher mobs, and i have NO PROBLEM to solo Healing when I am aware and No semi-afk. The new Heal Warden is anticipate-based, a Warden not 100% aware is a bad Healer because with Regen we need to be very concentrated.SW (Master 2), Cast Chloro (Adept 3), then VR (Adept 3) or HG (Adept 3) or same Group Heal (Adept 3 and Master I for Group Regen). Instant Heal is also very powerful vs Pike Damage.And a spell will help in the High-Level :<img src="http://www.xanadu-community.com/sfh/4191/Sans%20titre-3.jpg">So STOP whinning and relearn to Play !PS: In soloing we'are probably the best class, i soloed 52+++... (very long and bad xp, it was just for the test) Root is Nice.<p><p>Message Edited by Zelya on <span class=date_text>09-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:45 PM</span>

[Maldach]

<P>There's not much whining going on. Wardens seem to be adapting very well.</P> <P>Judging by the Priest boards, Templars seem to be struggling the most.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Shennr]

<P>Zelya, you truely stick up for your class and I truely admire that.</P> <P>But, what do you think that all the other priest classes got at lvl 54 as well? They got their master 2's of their speciality heals as well.  See most of the wardens are complaining on healer balance as advertised. Sure if you are fully fabled or close to and have tons of masters and adept 3's then you will be ok with healing a group. But what about compared to other priests? I have already grouped with most priests that are equally equipped to me and yes I do anticipate with my healing by casting Wild Regrowth before the tank is even hit once and a finger hovering over SW. The other priests are just having an easier time in healing is most of the wardens complaints.</P> <P>I am hoping that the Grove spell will change this and put us up to par with the other healers.</P>

[Shennr]

<P>Zelya, you truely stick up for your class and I truely admire that.</P> <P>But, what do you think that all the other priest classes got at lvl 54 as well? They got their master 2's of their speciality heals as well.  See most of the wardens are complaining on healer balance as advertised. Sure if you are fully fabled or close to and have tons of masters and adept 3's then you will be ok with healing a group. But what about compared to other priests? I have already grouped with most priests that are equally equipped to me and yes I do anticipate with my healing by casting Wild Regrowth before the tank is even hit once and a finger hovering over SW. The other priests are just having an easier time in healing is most of the wardens complaints.</P> <P>I am hoping that the Grove spell will change this and put us up to par with the other healers.</P>

[Tuved2]

<P>Maybe you should check out these poll results. It's not just a few Wardens complaining it's every Warden with half a brain:</P> <P> </P> <P><A href="http://sstair.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/pollresults/012" target=_blank>http://sstair.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/pollresults/012</A></P>

[Zel]

<blockquote><hr>Tuved2 wrote:<P>Maybe you should check out these poll results. It's not just a few Wardens complaining it's every Warden with half a brain:</P> <P> </P> <P><A href="http://sstair.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/pollresults/012" target=_blank>http://sstair.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/pollresults/012</A></P> <hr></blockquote>==================Much weaker (57) 65% A bit weaker (15) 17% About the same (5) 6% A bit stronger (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 9% Much stronger (3)===================You should say there are 83% gamers who dont know perfectly their class ?Warden is a powerfull Healer, learn just to play...

[stargazer5678]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zelya wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tuved2 wrote:<BR> <P>Maybe you should check out these poll results. It's not just a few Wardens complaining it's every Warden with half a brain:</P> <P> </P> <P><A href="http://sstair.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/pollresults/012" target=_blank>http://sstair.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/pollresults/012</A></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>==================<BR><BR>Much weaker (57) 65% <BR><BR>A bit weaker (15) 17% <BR><BR>About the same (5) 6% <BR><BR>A bit stronger (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 9% <BR><BR>Much stronger (3)<BR><BR>===================<BR><BR>You should say there are 83% gamers who dont know perfectly their class ?<BR><BR>Warden is a powerfull Healer, learn just to play...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Also keep in mind that you can vote as many times as you want... If I feel really strong about my class and I feel that it's been nerfed nothing prevents me from voting 100 times <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Just a hint..</P>

[Shennr]

<DIV>I would say that I know how to play my class. Just yesterday I (54 Warden) and a 54 Berserker were duoing lvl 59 Heroic giants in PoF. We were getting rad tad exp but we are also both fully equipped and tons of master spells. Also I would like to add that we complement with the Berserker class the best because of their regen spells added with ours. But I am sticking up for all those wardens who can't do [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] but spam heal the tank and watch them die. I would have to say that gear and spell upgrades play a big role and if you are not in a raiding guild who raids every day before the expansion came out then you are stuck in a very difficult situation. Heal spells alone increase double from app2 to master 1. Mitigation is now crucial more so then it was before DoF came out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are you saying that if you are not at the peak of your game and can play the class as best possible then your group should die? What about casual players and casual gaming where people only have time to log on for like 2 hours a day? Should they have to suffer with spike dmg and start throwing chairs? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am only asking these questions to get thoughts flowing through your head. They are not made to insult. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I probably play way too much and love to challenge myself to learn and get better. I have already been learning to cope with our new spells and have even resorted to only using hotkeys and keeping the MT targeted at all times until we stop grinding.  But I do see a problem when other healing classes are not so stressed out if they dont land a spell right at the start of combat or if they even get fizzles. They have time to still get that full heal in at the end of the casting time period.</DIV>

[Zel]

You're a casual gamer ? => Roll a Cleric.Be Druid really need an high attention to be effective because of regen's nature.<p>Message Edited by Zelya on <span class=date_text>09-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:42 PM</span>

[FeeRs]

i love the way the fable equipped level 54 a week after expansion power gamers seem to think the game should be balanced for them. no really. you may want to look at leaving your house occasionally as well <div></div>

[Sebero]

<DIV>Let me start by saying I am a level 47 warden wearing mostly legendary gear with several adept 3's and some masters. I've played EQ2 since beta where i played a druid and I played EQ1 from the day it went live till EQ2's Beta.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quoting you here " I do my job beeing the only healer at level 50-53 (Paladin, Coercer, Wizard, Assassin, Necromancer, and me Warden) in my group "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are NOT the ONLY healer in that group! Paladin has a DH that is equal to or better than your biggest direct heal. Necros can also heal. Add to that the fact that you have a coercer in group and necro which is masive power regen so you won't have any problems with running low or out of power. On top of that you have masive DPS in the group and crowd control. Sure you've got no problems because of your group and this has no bearing on a duo or three person group. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I usually duo with a lvl 50 guardian. pre-patch my largest direct heal would heal for 1200 HP with a HOT on completion of that which healed for 180 ish every 3.5 sec for 20 sec or so. Now my largest direct heal does a max of 400 with a HOT on completion of that which heals for 50ish every 2sec for 10 sec. That's aprox. 60% cut on my main heal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While grouping in maj'dul killing lvl 50-54 guards some heroic some not i decided to do a test on healing. (50Guardian, 50Mage, 50Mystic, and myself 47Warden) This group was not able to kill the mobs without me and it's the reason I log'd in at the Guardian's request. When i got there I asked the Mystic to do nothing to see if i could handle the heals myself. I could not and would have died if not for the mystic saving me near the end of the fight as I had pulled agro off the Guardian and they couldn't get the mob back off me. With both healers in the group it wasn't a problem however we were able to keep the group alive and such but neither of us could heal for the group well enough solo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In conclusion I've decided I will piddle around with this game till Vanguard comes out in 2006 and then move there. The people who invented EQ ( Verant ) are the ones heading up Vanguard and if any of you played EQ1 pre-Kunark I'm sure you remember the game being much better than it is now due to the customer support and the general feel of the game. I am hoping Vanguard will be similar in support and feel.</DIV>

[Thibor24]

<P>I havn't whined, i have not posted on the poll but your comments Zelya are so myopic that i had to respond.</P> <P>I "might" be able to heal a group, I "might" be able to solo but the reason i hate my warden now is because its NOT fun.</P> <P>Why mess around with roots and small nukes to solo something in three minutes that any of my caster alts can do in 20 seconds.</P> <P>I dont enjoy spam healing the MT on white mobs and still seeing them die.</P> <P>They may have increased the rare drops for lower tiers but it really doesnt feel that way for tier 5 and 6 so getting many ad3 is out of the question.</P> <P>Warden is not fun and im making my mage alts my main.</P> <P> </P>

[Sorano]

There will always be people like Zelya who only look at the positives on things and so end up accepting second best. As well as my lvl 50 warden, I also have lvl 50 wizzy. Wizzys have had more than their share of issues with borked dps, but there were always people who posted that they were fine and anyone who said otherwise was just whining. Of course eventually SOE got around to fixing wizzy dps, and you know what all those people who didn't think that wizzys were broken got to enjoy playing a <DIV>much better class. I just have to think though, perhaps the fixes would have come quicker if we didn't have people insisting that there was nothing wrong.</DIV>

[Zel]

Just to call again : it isnt because I'm in an Ubber Raid Guild that I am A Fan Boy and didnt /bug report any bug, spells underpowered or overpowered. I just like challenging Combats. Before revamp beeing a Healer, It was so bored for healing in Group AND Raid....Now all encounters are very challenging... Sorry for not to be the FOTM Warden whinner.... In Every game, every IRL situation, there are always the Whinners who complains about everything...And say that thanks to whinners devs fixed any class is Wrong. The whinner in every game RUINS the game (see SWG with jedis). All thing isn't completly black or white, every vision of class is different according to players... There arent whinners who increase the challenge of a game, rather decrease difficulty...You want to increase your class without beeing a Whinner? : - /bug and /feedback with true comments about a situation with details.<p>Message Edited by Zelya on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:28 AM</span><p>Message Edited by Zelya on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:29 AM</span>

[Thibor24]

<P>The people that ruin a game are the ones that spread misinformation whether that is complaining or saying there is nothing wrong.</P> <P> </P> <P>".... BUT Warden CAN SOLO any Xp/Named group..."</P> <P> </P> <P>Stating this blatantly false information has the potential to distract developers and moderators from realising that many wardens are not happy and at the very least need to be researched and provide feedback to us. </P> <P>Even if someone pulls some numbers and finds we can "theoretically" heal the same as X class doesnt answer the most important question of "Is this class fun for the majority of people playing it". At the moment the answer is a resounding NO.</P> <P>With proven reports that wardens heals do not stack with another warden and some fury lines.</P> <P>That when we recast a heal such as sylvan waters it overwrites the initial HoT thus making us the weakest healers to deal with damage spikes.</P> <P>Please do not try and suggest that there is nothing wrong and anyone who is complaining our class is broken is a whiner because...YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Zel]

The Warden on Forum didnt represent the full Warden population.... Hint....On Forum, there are often the dissatisfied category who express, and not the happy people... So don't generalize.

[Dragonreal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thibor24 wrote:<BR> <P>That when we recast a heal such as sylvan waters it overwrites the initial HoT thus making us the weakest healers to deal with damage spikes. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I keep seing ppl  say this and it's just not true anymore if you're talking about a single warden (which it looks like you are cuz you say recast)... the hots on the direct heals no longer last as long as they did; in fact now they last pretty much exactly as long as the cast+recast (give or take 1-2 secs). So if you're recasting SW or VR, you're not overwriting a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing since by the time it's finished recasting, the intial hot has completed.</P> <P>Now if you mean that a second warden casting sw on the same target as you overwrites, then yes it does according to a test someone on these forums ran (forget who it was), but that's either a bug or the devs changing their intentions about how our heals are supposed to work without telling us.</P> <P>And to the guy who was talking about the direct heal regen ticks... it actually ticks 50ish every SECOND not every 2 seconds for either 12 secs for VR or for 6 secs for SW; just a small correction there.</P><p>Message Edited by Dragonrealms on <span class=date_text>09-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:57 PM</span>

[Icewolf99]

Group of 3, me (warden) , wizard and Guardian,  we died 4 times in 15 minutes before we gave up, doing easy group mobs,,  I couldnt keep up the healiing with most heals on the same timer.   Warden is no fun to play now,  I dont want to have to just stand there and spam heals in a  group and do nothing else, thats boring and no fun.   Warden is going on the shelf until fixed.  There are too many other classes that are still fun to play to waste time on this one. <div></div>

[Sorano]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zelya wrote:<BR>The Warden on Forum didnt represent the full Warden population.... Hint....<BR><BR>On Forum, there are often the dissatisfied category who express, and not the happy people... So don't generalize.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Riiight! Of course as soon as someone expresses a different opinion from your 'everything is rosy' stance, it is automatically classed as a whine. It doesn't matter if they provide hard data or even their own experiences because they can't possibly have anything valid to say because they are contradicting your opinion. Please! I think it's time to get off your high horse and get rid of the holier than thou attitude. Other people's opinions are just as valid as yours and it's just total arrogance to class it as a whine. Wardens will eventually be fixed and it will be IN SPITE of people like you Zelya. Not because.

[Lamarre]

As many people already said before me, soloing is still possible with any class & subclass. The thing is, however, that soloing became incredibly tedious & boring. I am not much of a group person plus I don't always have time to play for longer than 2 or 3 hours so I usually prefer soloing to grouping. I have a 34 lvl warden & I was able to solo with her just fine. I am not talking about taking out heroic or named mobs. If somebody could do it with a solo warden then kudos to them. I am talking about more simple quests that didn't require a lot of outside help & that my warden was able to do herself (i.e. Requisitions in Antonica, TS, etc. ) After the update evrything has changed. I can solo, yes, but only ridiculously low mobs with down arrows, practically always solo, never a group anymore. Killing a group of 3 greens triple down arrow exsausted me as if I were fighting a group of whites. I can't heal as well as I used to, I can't do a lot of things as I used to, and frankly I don't see a reaon why I should be readily re-learning to play my character. I am not saying that game now is way too hard because it is not. I have nothing against challenges. This update, however, didn't create more challenges, it created instead more problems and frustration. I am talking about myself here. If somebody loves the changes, it's great & I am happy for you. But for me playing is no fun anymore & in my opinion, my warden (not quite packed in legendary armor, just a couple of pieces, and not using adept 3 spells, mostly adept 1 & appr 4) can't functoin as well as she used to. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that changes are bad, I accept changes with my arms wide open but this is simply ridiculous. I don't like being force-fed with grouping, and I don't want to change my play style. I am not going to scream that SOE sucks, they probably had their reasons but this doesn't satisfy me. And as much as it upsets me, I am cancelling my subscription. It is rather pity because I loved this game & it used to be great. Good luck all & if you are sticking with the game, enjoy it <span>:smileyhappy:</span> <div></div>

[BuyBye]

:smileyvery-happy:

[kenji]

<P>rofl, the poll is silly...if there's a templar poll i must admit i will give Extreme weaker than before too.</P> <P>1/2 value + slower to full proc + less duration special heals, 1/3 buff (1k ac gone rofl), 1/2 dps (dot, dd), 2/3 ac, 1/5 avoidance.</P> <P> </P> <P>but no, templar now still playable. and still heal well if know how the class work.</P> <P> </P>

[ZandaStrooth]

<P>I agree with Zelya here.<BR>I find it much more fun to play my warden now.</P> <P>Wardens were overpowered healers before LU13.<BR>Now we are just normal healers, which we should be.<BR>Not better, not worse as other healers, just average. </P> <P>All classes are much more balanced at the moment.<BR>In our guild we did a lot of duelling. I can still beat a lot of classes, won 75% of my duels, so we don't suck that much in soloing as some are saying here.<BR>We got the ability to root mobs now, so that helps a lot for soloing too.</P> <P>It's true, in groups we are a bit worse atm, some of our heals are severely nerfed, but we get nice heals back soon enough when we reach the higher levels. And face it, we were way overpowered before. We beated drayek with 1 group, with only me and a templar as healers, before LU13, that's not how it should be.</P> <P>Also the special spells will be really fun imo:<BR><A href="http://www.eq2labs.com/article/new-spells-priest.php#warden" target=_blank>http://www.eq2labs.com/article/new-spells-priest.php#warden</A></P> <P>I also agree that the people who post on this forum are usually much more negative then the wardens I speak in game. Most people only post when they have something to complain about and don't bother with posting if they think all is ok. That's not a problem at all, SOE has to know about the problems some have, but you can't base statistics and polls on that.<BR>Only thing the poll sais is that from the people who visit this forum, the most think warden is nerfed.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[ZandaStrooth]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Icewolf99 wrote:<BR>Group of 3, me (warden) , wizard and Guardian,  we died 4 times in 15 minutes before we gave up, doing easy group mobs,,  I couldnt keep up the healiing with most heals on the same timer.   Warden is no fun to play now,  I dont want to have to just stand there and spam heals in a  group and do nothing else, thats boring and no fun.   Warden is going on the shelf until fixed.  There are too many other classes that are still fun to play to waste time on this one.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Fun thing is that I grouped with a wizard and Guardian yesterday in a group of 3 too. </DIV> <DIV>We were beating the mobs in a faction tower in Maj'Dul, even the 3 arrowed. It was hard, but we could do it.<BR></DIV>

[Riseth]

<P>I agree that solo wise we have improved. </P> <P>I also agree we were far too powerful before the CC.</P> <DIV>I cannot agree that we have improved group wise.  Yes, we are not completely helpless but we are certainly one of the least adequate healers when it comes to dealing with adds or mulitple spike damage.   If SOE are to maintain its line of no "one true healing class" then it needs re-balancing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zanda, there is no point in posting comparison groups.  No doubt your Guardian/Wizard were guildies and being aware of your guild they aren't exactly slouches when it comes to raiding.  Gear and spell levels make an incredible difference especially when spread across a group.  A few assumptions made here admittedly, but you get my point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have to base wardens capabilities on the average setup not its pinnacle.  Telling people, who are expressing concerns, to just learn their character properly is just down right arrogant imho.</DIV>

[Sorano]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kenjiso wrote:<BR> <P>rofl, the poll is silly...if there's a templar poll i must admit i will give Extreme weaker than before too.</P> <P>1/2 value + slower to full proc + less duration special heals, 1/3 buff (1k ac gone rofl), 1/2 dps (dot, dd), 2/3 ac, 1/5 avoidance.</P> <P> </P> <P>but no, templar now still playable. and still heal well if know how the class work.</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Right I am happy for you that you find templars playable. It's nice to know other healers still like playing their class. But I would like to point out this is the WARDEN forum. What you think about templars had nothing to do with the warden class.<BR>

[Shadus]

> You should say there are 83% gamers who dont know perfectly their class ? > Warden is a powerfull Healer, learn just to play... or perhaps, people are looking beyond the class itself and comparing to the other two priests classes? I have a warden and templar, the templar is a *far*far* better healer than the warden can hope to be in 99.9% of situations... that's not quite right. It's not balanced, warden isn't hideously bad now, but it's not balanced at all.

[Timber13]

<DIV>I have to agree with Zelya. Our class is still a top healing class.</DIV> <DIV>Our buffs gotten a HUGE improvement than before the revamp. Alot of people will say "[Removed for Content] are youtalking about, an improvment?" Yes an improvement compared to the needs of this game to keep a MT up. Let me give you an example, before the revamp we buffed all kind of things a MT didn't REALLY needed, now we buff exact the things needed to keep a MT up, duststorm got a huge upgrade, and for most raids impossible to do without, our huge wisdom and agility buffs are our biggest and most important buffs now. My guild did Vaz'Gok yesterday, we knew how to do him before the revamp, he's not the easiest mob in the game, but compared to Borxx, alot heavier. We pulled him, casted duststorm 15 seconds before pull, putted all regens up ( those are sooo important now since templar get agro on the first hit, try and see by yourself ) and at the moment all those things were done, the MT pulled. It was those regens that kept the MT alive during the first 10 seconds, after 2,5 minute, Vaz'gok was down, after 3 minutes duststorm was down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the more regular players, I duo'ed several towers with a zerker in Maj'Dul. We wiped about 2 times, not because I couldn't keep the tank up, but because we managed to agro the whole tower :smileytongue: The key for those fights is to activate ( if needed ) next spells since they all stack: Chloroplast, Sylvan Waters, Chlorostorm, HG. If a regen from about 300HP/sec can't keep your tank up... you might consider something is serious wrong with your tank.... even without HG casted you still get a regen from about 150HP/sec which is still very nice. Also don't forget the "special" spells we get at level 52, 55, 58. I'm gonna try Tunare's Watch pretty soon, but from what I've seen on the boards, it just rock. <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=16&message.id=7009" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=16&message.id=7009</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stop looking back like how it was in the past, that time is GONE. Relearn yourclass, inspect all your spell, test them on easy mobs ( don't forget we got 2 root spells now, 3 when we're grouped ) Healing these days is alot more fun since you actually have to heal, casted Sylvan waters and Chloroplast ( masters ) every minute was enough to keep your tank up... boring if you ask me. I'm glad with this changes and I hope everyone will get the job done to accept this new kind of healing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And people that say that our class is unbalanced, yes it is, way overpowered in PVP. Duststorm owned every fighter/scout, and the mages are quite easy aswell except the necro. But when you buff high enough with potions, not a big deal either.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Timber13 on <span class=date_text>09-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:49 AM</span>

[Disenfranchised]

<P>Original post says you play with a coercer. So how the hell does that mean stop whining. Take away your coercer and try it. You will not be able to keep up with healing.</P> <P>Then post again, butt head.</P>

[Timber13]

<DIV>?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Original post was EXACT the same, only add this few words:</DIV> <DIV><EM>"And people that say that our class is unbalanced, yes it is, way overpowered in PVP. Duststorm owned every fighter/scout, and the mages are quite easy aswell except the necro. But when you buff high enough with potions, not a big deal either."</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>I have 1 character in this game, which is a warden, playing it full time, loved it before the revamp, and love it even more after the revamp. </DIV> <DIV>Try again next time and I'll post my login screen, butt head.</DIV>

[Disenfranchised]

Im saying if you didn't have the crowd control you'd be screwed. Agro will come off the tank and you will not be able to switch targets quick enough and fire off enough heals to keep groupmate up. <DIV>48 Warden, so no NooB here.</DIV>

[rowanC7276]

<P>oK weather it is whinning or not so be-- who cares! I for one am not all that happy with my warden level 51 HK server. ANd yes I know how to play my class. I haev been in a high end raiding guild and the wardne who is always in the Mt group for a while now. So if I did not know my class I do not believe that would be the case. But at this point our heals are pathetic at best - I have tried hard not to jugde the class till I played for atleast a week. The only thing that I kept telling myself was as long as everythign stacks then we ( asa class of healers) still haev a chance. But now not event the HOT stack and if you are grouped or raiding with another warden then you over ride each other. If the HOt stacked then I think we migth be ok. if ALL the HOT stacked that is. and we did not override each other. But when grouping all I get to do is watch the group window and constantly heal that is it -- I do not even haev a sec to see what is goign on in game -- I feel liek I am no longer there-- I really get the whole you are sittign in front of the computer pussign buttons feel.. </P> <P> </P> <P>Where as before it was easy to slip into the game and really get a feel for everything. SO I fell I have lost a lot - I no longer feel part of the world that is norath - it has become like anyother game - weather its computer, playstation, xbox---- i AM ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN. I no longer feel apart of all the fun that is EQ2</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Timber13]

<DIV>I never really had agro problems before the revamp, neiter I do now.</DIV> <DIV>Good advice for your tank: adept1 taunts are still quite cheap on the broker and gotten a huge upgrade since the revamp. Might change soon now you don't get spells automaticly anymore.</DIV>

[Timber13]

<DIV>rowanC7276 you are 100% right about what you wrote, but we are a healing class, I felt like a wanabee paladin before but with abit better heals. I feel now like a healer, focus 100% heal non stop, jump backwards to avoid damage, root adds, cast a group heal cause that wizard just got another add on him, root the second add, keep MT up... love it :smileywink: But indeed would be nice if Sylvan waters and VR stack with eachother.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's just my personal opinion but that is in my eyes EQ2 on the highest level of entertainment, you wanna enjoy the graphix? Ask the mt to stop pulling and enjoy the the view :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Dragonreal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timber13 wrote:<BR> <DIV>rowanC7276 you are 100% right about what you wrote, but we are a healing class, I felt like a wanabee paladin before but with abit better heals. I feel now like a healer, focus 100% heal non stop, jump backwards to avoid damage, root adds, cast a group heal cause that wizard just got another add on him, root the second add, keep MT up... love it :smileywink: But indeed would be nice if Sylvan waters and VR stack with eachother.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's just my personal opinion but that is in my eyes EQ2 on the highest level of entertainment, you wanna enjoy the graphix? Ask the mt to stop pulling and enjoy the the view :smileyhappy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>SW and VR DO stack with each other... it's SW/VR from 1 warden and SW/VR from another warden that don't stack.

[Timber13]

<DIV>I'm sorry, that's what I ment</DIV>

[Disenfranchised]

Lol, MT has all Adept 1 or higher taunts. Nukers and healers will pull agro almost every time. Tank is only taunting, runs out of power real quick, then whole group goes to hell in a handbasket.

[Kassanthala]

<P>I play a 50 warden. I play only a couple hours a night. I have no fabled gear, i have no adept 111 spells. All my spells are adept 1 except for the master ii training choices. I have no problem soloing yellow solo mobs. Orange ones are a bit tougher, which is how it should be. In eq1 there was about 90% i would die on a white mob. Duoing with a 50 guardian we have no problem taking on yellow heroics. Between duststorm, brambles, undergrowth i never get aggro. I have no problem keeping him alive. In a group I can solo heal absolutly fine. Im really low on power at the end of the fight which creates downtime and we would have a problem with adds. If you want to crawl  a dungeon slowly one healer is fine, if you want to blow through you'll need 2 healers. If you want to take on named or extra hard mobs you'll need 2 healers. When this game first came out, before they made the mobs soooo much easier you needed 2 healers. </P> <P>Duststorm is awesome. and yes it does knockback mobs that are hitting the tank in a group. I sit and watch it happen to multiple mobs in a group while I duo with my guardian friend.  Undergrowth is great as it keeps mobs rooted pretty much for the first part of the fight when the healing is more intense and more likely to gain aggro for me. </P> <P>How are we compared to other classes? i dont know and i don't really care. I think with all the changes, most healers of all classes are gonna find it more difficult to be the only healer. It is difficult, but doable with normal orange heroic mobs on down. I think wardens are just as good if not better than before. Duoing with the guardian, we take down mobs at about half the time we did pre-patch. I'm often in full guild groups too and we have no more difficulty than expected just going around killing mobs, with me the only healer. The only time I feel like I can't keep up by myself is when we take on reds or named mobs. Which is how it should be.</P> <P>What sucked, what i hated about EQ2 was the dumbdownest of it. I like my games challenging and fun. I'm glad they got away from the WoW trend. </P> <P>I LOVE my Warden now! I would'nt play any other healer class if you payed me too.</P>

[boa]

<DIV>   Well I know for a fact sinice I manely duo with a pally , Is that if he knows better he will heal himself for the taunt facter alone so yes you can manage there . I was in 2  different full groups, last sunday. One group with mt a  50 zerker  i had such a hard time keeping up with heals we got wiped 3 times becaus of aggro, He asked me if i was, afk once LOL Than later after i calmed down some . I  got in a group with the mt was a pally we were doing great i had still some trouble with haveing to spam my heals at beginning of fight even with duststorm up. but it was way easier. only becaus the pallys gets at 50 a nice group heal spell not to mention a nice single target heal on a 15 sec. timer that makes us warden look silly, But I think if we were to get a 700 to 1000 hps heal on a 30 sec timer  that could be the burst heal we need that might make us better in full groups as a main healer .</DIV> <DIV>      I havent raided much at this level only because im not in any real big guild Just the family type guild.so uber armour or spells at master are not in my reach.I do have most of the lengerary stuff from quest.  And all spells are adept1 waiting on what to upgrade to adept 3  So if any of you higher levels wardens  out there can give me some advice on adep3 i shoud get Please Please Do So. Sorry about the earlier whine i made else were but we can solo great and are great in small groups which is most of what i see people doing now adays. Its the full groups  that are demanding on us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krakes 50 warden, Toxx</DIV>

[Spag]

<P>Since all the spells in the same line are on the same timer, it makes it extremely more important now more than ever to get these spells upgraded as high as you can afford to do so.  Previously you could get away with lower quality spells, as you could simply chain in the lower class spells immediately after with the exception of the regen line.  Don't get me wrong I am not saying this is the solution, but this does explain the big difference of opinion between decked out players, and casual players.</P>

[Unmask]

<span><blockquote><hr>Disenfranchised wrote:Im saying if you didn't have the crowd control you'd be screwed. Agro will come off the tank and you will not be able to switch targets quick enough and fire off enough heals to keep groupmate up. <div>48 Warden, so no NooB here.</div><hr></blockquote>Root is a form of crowd control.  Keep undergrowth on the mobs and non-melee clear of the mobs and tank losing agro isn't as big a problem.  And in a raid situation if a caster got agro he was dead anyway. This of course is not a statement that our healing is up to par, just a way I'm trying to adapt.</span><div></div>

[Unmask]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dragonrealms wrote: SW and VR DO stack with each other... it's SW/VR from 1 warden and SW/VR from another warden that don't stack. <div></div><hr></blockquote>I also believe that our regen and a fury's regen don't stack.  I have chloroplast at adept 3 and a fury I group with sometimes has her HoT at master I.  If I cast chloro while her spell is up I get the message "Will not take effect" which is similar to what we got when we tried to cast a lower level buff when a higher level (or quality) version was already up.</span><div></div>

[Shennr]

<P>To the post a few posts above about our class still being a top healing class.</P> <P>We are not a top healing class plane and simple fact. I have now grouped with all the other priests classes including another warden and have made observations while I sit to the side with no buffs on to see how they do their jobs. There is a huge difference that I notice and has led me to the conclusion that Wardens area [Removed for Content] healer. Yea we can still do our job but we were supposed to be balanced with the other priests. From my observations we not only need to be 100% attentative to every pull but even then we let our tanks get down further in health then any other healer.</P> <P>We do in fact heal for less despite what the devs have said. What they do not factor in are the group speciality heals that the Cleric branch and Shaman branch get. Those heals are more effecient and more powerful then their single target speciality heals. They get the option to use this advantage to keep up with their healing while Wardens do not. Fury's have even been given the best DH in the game that stacks with their other 2 DH's to keep up with their healing ability and they add insane DPS to make any group want them.</P> <P>Our class can make it by but so can a Paladin for that matter. Although we may be slightly better at healing then the paladin they can at least take agro and off tank any mob.</P> <P>These are the facts and I will post later about some other issues that is wrong with the Warden class.</P>

[Bobolammy]

I do often why we as wardens don't have any real WARDS ... seems ironic. Anyways yeah overall we're not completely [Removed for Content], but still not the powerhouse of healing we once were. I manage okay without huge burst healing but throw in an add or two and things do get quite interesting. <div></div>

[Skivley101]

Risthar wrote: <DIV>We have to base wardens capabilities on the average setup not its pinnacle.  Telling people, who are expressing concerns, to just learn their character properly is just down right arrogant imho.</DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The whole point is that there isnt really an overall average situation anymore.......every situation you might need to employ a little different stratagey....including how your group works together.</DIV> <DIV>Little things matter more now.....here's one way to deal with adds.....target the new mob..and root em...tell the MT to move back...keep that mob targeted....you can heal MT through it as long as its target is the main tank....throw some debuffs on it...no damage yet....root it again as nessacarry...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMO....this sounds fun to me....trying different stratagies....sure youll need to talk to your group alot more....and plan attacks better....maybe consider what type of damage they'er gona do....(and people shouldnt go throwing away that old armour any more......cuz a certain stat might be better for a certain situation).....And using different types of potions/food for Diff mobs helps a bit also....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>sure its all shades of grey....But it looks Like the Grey scale got alot bigger</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ya....they did change the way the warden plays....and if your not having any fun....Definatley play somthin that is Fun</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just IMO................:smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>