Well?

[Tuved2]

<DIV>Anyone test these latest changes? Is our lack of burst healing a problem? Are we balanced now or is it all smoke and mirrors as it's my job to suspect :smileywink:</DIV>

[Eclect]

<P>Ok I finally got into beta and can try some of this stuff out myself <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></P> <P>First impressions: </P> <P>Protecting grove appears to be broken atm, it doesn't heal at all for me it just sits there <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif" width=16 border=0> dumb tree.</P> <P>Sylvan Waters is too small of a direct heal, for all intents and purposes it is now a second Chloroplast with a little bit more of a first tick and a shorter duration. When I cast it I barely see my HP bar even move at first <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif" width=16 border=0> it doesn't feel like a direct heal at all.</P> <P>Verdant Rapture is now my heal of choice, I used to always cast SW as much as possible and fill in with VR when it was efficient, now the exact opposite is true.</P> <P>My first gut reaction would be to turn SW back into a pure direct heal but leave VR as a heal + regen combo. Either that or increase the heal on the front end and decrease the regen.</P> <P>Chloroplast is just a little bit too short in duration, I feel like I am spam casting it now. I will probably get used to it in time but my first impression is that it needs to be slightly longer for more power, 20 seconds instead of 14 I think would be just about right.</P> <P>Overall I feel like I am spamming spells far more than I used to, which is not necessarily a bad thing but it is a change in style for me. I used to like to melee but now its more effective to spam cast heals and nukes and melee as little as possible <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif" width=16 border=0></P>

[Urkra]

<P>I have been testing today against hig dmg burst mobs which cannot one shot me like spectres in Sinking Sand.</P> <P>Our two heals, as Cillin says, are definetly too small.</P> <P>Basically VR at Master I feels like SW adept III live.</P> <P>SW Adept III is way too small to recover from a orange/red sitation unless you are lucky and have some other regen running.</P> <P>I have posted my suggestion on beta board but i think i should re-iterate them here.</P> <DIV>At present our Direct Heals are split 50% into Dricet Heal Component and 50% into HoT effect. This is devastating imho as SW becomes just another chloroplast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My suggestion would be to revert to 75% into Direct Heal and leave 25% to the HoT effect in the same time we have now (6s for SW and 12s for VR) this small chenge would not hinder our HP/Power not our HP/Second as they would stay the saem in the formula Lockeye has posted onhis post but would give us a little more ability to respond to burst damage - even if it would stay minimal and well below the other classes. (e.g. now on SW our burst heal is 4x Vs. 8.65x Templar and 6x for Fury, it would put us around 5.5x)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tuved2]

Hmmmm aren't these exactly the problems I said we'd have when everyone jumped all over me? <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I doesn't matter if the numbers on some stupid formula show us healing more than templars or more efficiently than templars if the heal is in the wrong form at the wrong time. We can be the most efficient healers in the world and still have a dead MT.  I'll take large powerful heals any day over efficiency.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like I said yesterday. These changes make us backup healers not primary healers.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tuved2 on <span class=date_text>08-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:42 AM</span>

[Danluy]

<DIV>Your experiences at 50+ pretty much mirrors mine on Test at 25, the only difference is the spells.  To get out of the red is pretty much impossible unless you get your chloro, small and large heals all ticking at once.  A lot of casting.  These seems to be further compllicated by at least my perception that the mobs have been tuned to up the special attacks when their opponent gets low on health.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dan</DIV>

[Aaeamdar]

<span><blockquote><hr>Eclectic wrote: <p>Chloroplast is just a little bit too short in duration, I feel like I am spam casting it now. I will probably get used to it in time but my first impression is that it needs to be slightly longer for more power, 20 seconds instead of 14 I think would be just about right.</p><hr></blockquote>This would further exaserbate the HPS problem between Regens are reactives.  Our HOTs need to be even shorter dureation (apx. 7 seconds) -or- the cast+recast time of those reactives needs to increase -or- HOTs need to heal per tick about twice what they currently do.  If you go from 14s to 20 seconds HOTs will have to heal even more (or reactives heal even less or reactives would need a cast+recast time of at least 20 seconds).</span><div></div>

[Kyralis]

I actually disagree. Even with a crappy beta-buffed character with apprentice 1 spells, I have no problem getting out of the red as long as I don't get interrupted by the mob. VR + SW + chloro, in that order, works pretty well. Start with SW if you can't last the 3 seconds- but in that case, what were you doing that close to red anyway? It takes a little more care in that we can't be as lazy about slamming down enormous heals to save any tank from death. That's not a problem for me- I don't mind having to a pay a bit more attention in order to do my job properly. <div></div>

[Urkra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caerwyn wrote:<BR><BR>VR + SW + chloro, in that order, works pretty well. Start with SW if you can't last the 3 seconds- but in that case, what were you doing that close to red anyway?<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Getting nuked for 1.4k <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> which is not uncomon for example.</DIV>

[Kyralis]

Even beta-buffed I've got 2.3k HP. As long as you keep yourself around 90%, and slap those heals on as soon as a nuke lands, you should be okay- you won't get *into* the red. I'm still not convinced that we have a problem right now. I can kill a 48+++ as a beta-buffed level 50 as long as I pay attention (and I dont' get chain-interrupted...). Frankly, I'm happy. <div></div>

[Tenol]

Been in beta since the second wave of invites. Got boosted to 60 about a week ago. Protection of the grove does work, its an AOE 65-80 regen, not that big, but can cross groups if your raided up. a big plus is that it draws its own aggro, so if you drop it right away mobs will attack it and kill it instead of you. Healing: Nothing has really changed but our numbers, NPC's have been toned down as well, so not a problem. Our Secondary affect HoT's on our direct heals stack now, just watch aggro<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> spamming heals can get you in trouble now<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> DPS: Big upgrade here. Esspecially with the wolf spell( I forgot the name of it) nice DoT. Add our other DoT plus our direct dmg spells and we rock the house. Downfall- we don't have enough HP- this is more or less from PVP but one ice comet will down us. No questions asked. Aspect of the Hawk helps with its 81 wis boost at adept 1 but it still tough against a wizard. Vs. Warlock we own, just make sure you cure the DoT's. Sandstorm (upgrade from duststorm) Adept 1 is a 10.7 def plus the knockdown affect. It does have a power of time reducer on it, but haveing your prissy makes it null and void. Our Dmg sheild is single target only, but does not cost a con. point. Good dmg on it though, MT buff more or less. Cures: We specialize in heat and cold, and thats our only Group Cure, we do get a single target arcane. Buffs- Power, heat and cold mitigation, a little defense, agi, wis, and +20 to all melle skills (nice little buff if you ask me) We get one power ward with heat and cold mitigation- I forget the name, will update it when i get home from work, but adept 1 of upgrade wards for 1200+, only lasts 36 seconds, but can make or break a fight easily, esspecially if Sh**'s hittin the fan. Wolf form- sucks, but all forms suck now, they need to take out the constantly upgradeing water breathing and add more forms, Either that or make our other forms have buffs as well all with 3 con points but all be worth while, would love to be able to switch back and forth from form to form through a battle knowing its worth it, Wolf form is forever off my macro bar until it gets need revamping. The least they could do is make the T5 wolf form not look like the first one we got....right? Wild Regrowth- T6 regen, I chose the optional Master 2- 270ish regen, very nice if you ask me. HG- 300+ regen at master 1, not worth the stun though. but can make or break a raid if theres more then one healer. Going back to DPS with reuse timers- At 50 your gonna have a tough time with Ho's the two main DD's we have are on the same timers, at 60 though, it opens up more to have those 2 on one timer, another DD + a DoT on a timer, and a 3rd DD on its own timer. Our AoE pwns, 600+ dmg encounter cold based. Someone mentioned the higher the wisdom we have the higher we heal for, i have not noticed this at "yet" but it could not be implemented atm due to the recent priest changes. Hopefully this makes DoF cause that would make wisdom a more vaulable stat then just our power pool, and if you ask me, if you have GEB's, Prismatic and a Battlement of the Mind fabled item, you never run out of mana. And if you are running low, toss a manastone and a Clarity potion and mana is never an issue. Tenolas Naturewalker Shadow Syndicate Najena Server 50 Warden/45 Jeweler <div></div>

[Urkra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caerwyn wrote:<BR>Even beta-buffed I've got 2.3k HP. As long as you keep yourself around 90%, and slap those heals on as soon as a nuke lands, you should be okay- you won't get *into* the red.<BR><BR>I'm still not convinced that we have a problem right now. I can kill a 48+++ as a beta-buffed level 50 as long as I pay attention (and I dont' get chain-interrupted...). Frankly, I'm happy.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Caer i honestly want to see you killing a lvl 47+++ spectre ....</P> <P>Not betabuffed btw, i pass from 3400hp live to 2.8k in beta due to the removal of our Hp buffs.</P>

[Tuved2]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caerwyn wrote:<BR>Even beta-buffed I've got 2.3k HP. As long as you keep yourself around 90%, and slap those heals on as soon as a nuke lands, you should be okay- you won't get *into* the red.<BR><BR>I'm still not convinced that we have a problem right now. I can kill a 48+++ as a beta-buffed level 50 as long as I pay attention (and I dont' get chain-interrupted...). Frankly, I'm happy.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>We're not talking about soloing. We don't care what you can solo. This healing situation won't work in a group in emergency situations that before these changes we could handle just fine. If groups start wiping because of the lack of our ability to respond to burst dammage, we won't get asked to heal for groups and yes soloing is all we'll be doing.

[Shennr]

<P>I have a few questions still. They may have been answered already elsewhere but I did not see them. Do the regen effects on Verdant Rapture and Sylvan Waters stack with other Wardens same 2 spells? Does the new tree spell stack with other wardens tree spell ( in the same group or different raid group ). Does our 5 min recastable Ward stack with other priests wards? Do you ever end up using the Direct Group Heal spell at all to help with healing just the MT?</P>

[Kyralis]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tuved2 wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Caerwyn wrote:Even beta-buffed I've got 2.3k HP. As long as you keep yourself around 90%, and slap those heals on as soon as a nuke lands, you should be okay- you won't get *into* the red.I'm still not convinced that we have a problem right now. I can kill a 48+++ as a beta-buffed level 50 as long as I pay attention (and I dont' get chain-interrupted...). Frankly, I'm happy. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>We're not talking about soloing. We don't care what you can solo. This healing situation won't work in a group in emergency situations that before these changes we could handle just fine. If groups start wiping because of the lack of our ability to respond to burst dammage, we won't get asked to heal for groups and yes soloing is all we'll be doing. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Tuved... pay attention rather than blurting out a response for once. Burst damage is not a problem. Soloing is not the whole game, no, but at the same time it can give an indication of the style of damage and healing that will be dished out to a group. I haven't fought the spectres that have been mentioned. I'll log in now to give them a try; perhaps my opinion will change.</span><div></div>

[Kyralis]

Okay, as promised, I've fought spectres now. My conclusion? We don't have a problem with burst healing, we have a problem with being interrupted more often than not (probably 4/5 casts are interrupted). The spectres HT for 1.4k at some point during the fight and then nuke for 300-500 against a beta-buffed character. I'm unable to actually solo them, but that's solely a question of power; I don't die unless I get an add, get interrupted for 15 seconds in a row while trying to heal, or run out of power. Burst damage is simply not an issue- I'm careful to keep my health near 90%. Do I get in the orange on occasion? Yes. But chloro/vr/SW takes care of that quite rapidly. I really like the fast-tick HoTs... they give an interesting feel of continuous health increase that is an interesting dynamic to healing. Is it different than live? Yes. Do I feel less capable than I do in live? Only to the extent that my character is betabuffed, and therefore using all Apprentice I spells and all handcrafted, incredibly crappy gear. My live character would have owned the spectre- and I intend to do exactly that as soon as it's copied over. <div></div>

[Tuved2]

<DIV>Please take a group to Nek2 as sole healer and tell me healing is ok. I don't care about what you solo. And why is it you seem to come to a compleatly diff conclusion about how well we handle burst healing as others posting here?</DIV>

[Kyralis]

<div></div>I'm not sure what part of "beta-buffed" and "all apprentice I spells" you're missing, Tuved. There's not a chance in hell that I could go into nek2 and come out alive, and I know it- the zone is designed for well equipped groups, not people with app1's and handcrafted. Perhaps when Aeluil is copied over I can give it a try, but until then, I'll have to test the content that provides a worthwhile test. I know you don't care what I solo. And I don't particularly care. If you chose to ignore information that's presented to you, so be it. I'm in beta, I'm testing changes, I'm coming to certain conclusions and I can back up those conclusions with evidence that I have presented. Urkraft said he had a problem with burst damage. I disagreed; he pointed me to a set of mobs that he found to have high burst dps. I went and fought them, and concluded that not once did I die of burst damage. I died of two things: running out of power and getting interrupted for long stretches, neither of which is related to burst damage or an inability to heal said burst damage. Given that the mobs are heroic encounters, and that my status as a priest means I would be taking *more* burst damage than a tank would, I can conclude that at least this evidence supports my hypothesis that burst damage is not, in fact, a problem. Also, I'm not the only person claiming that burst damage isn't an issue, as another tester also pointed out that NPC damage and damage spikes have been lowered. Mobs no longer burn all their power at the beginning of the fight, leading to far less immediate spam healing and a more even distribution of damage, which is precisely what our heals are geared toward effectively dealling with. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Caerwyn on <span class=date_text>08-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:42 PM</span>

[Zel]

<P>Great /cheer for <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=618" target=_blank><SPAN>Caerwyn</SPAN></A> with his tests.</P> <P>I'm thinking like you, and i am not on Beta hehe. Ours HoTs in this configuration are very efficient to heal over time (tick fast, good stacking). I'm very exciting about test this change in Live. Warden is wholly now a heal subclass, with its big speciality : HoT. :smileywink:</P> <P>Every class owns a speciality atm, Maybe SoE did a real job for balance this healer revamp ? /clap</P><p>Message Edited by Zelya on <span class=date_text>08-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:11 AM</span>

[Sorano]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caerwyn wrote:<BR>Okay, as promised, I've fought spectres now.<BR><BR>My conclusion? We don't have a problem with burst healing, we have a problem with being interrupted more often than not (probably 4/5 casts are interrupted).<BR><BR>The spectres HT for 1.4k at some point during the fight and then nuke for 300-500 against a beta-buffed character. I'm unable to actually solo them, but that's solely a question of power; I don't die unless I get an add, get interrupted for 15 seconds in a row while trying to heal, or run out of power. Burst damage is simply not an issue- I'm careful to keep my health near 90%. Do I get in the orange on occasion? Yes. But chloro/vr/SW takes care of that quite rapidly. I really like the fast-tick HoTs... they give an interesting feel of continuous health increase that is an interesting dynamic to healing.<BR><BR>Is it different than live? Yes.<BR><BR>Do I feel less capable than I do in live? Only to the extent that my character is betabuffed, and therefore using all Apprentice I spells and all handcrafted, incredibly crappy gear. My live character would have owned the spectre- and I intend to do exactly that as soon as it's copied over.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Caerwyn if specters, a normal heroic mob can nuke for 1.4k, what are raid mobs going to do? What good is a Warden going to be on a raid if we can't deal with burst damage? We don't really appear to bring any buffs to the table, apart from WIS, so it would make much more sense to take a priest who can actually heal your MT out of trouble rather than a Warden.<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am still withholding judgement untill I see for myself, but at the moment I am worried. According to Lockeye's posts in the warden thread on the feedback forums, we are supposed to be using the recast time between our heals to do other things like nuking. From what I gather from these latest changes, we are stuck with spamming heals just to make sure we have enough HoTs ticking to deal with damage. Far be it for me to complain about not being able to nuke since I don't think that's our job, but I just thought I should point out what looks like a total contradiction.  Having VR is on a 3 sec cast timer also makes no sense to me. Since SW is now just another HoT, we are left with just VR to deal with any kind of big spike damage, and surely having it be a 3 sec cast is going to hurt us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am also worried about aggro, if we do have to chain cast our heals, esepcially given the fact we are going to take hits about as well as a mage would now. I guess that's why they gave us a root line of spells :smileyindifferent:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway thanks for all the hard work all you beta testers are doing. It's good to know we have such able representation.</DIV>

[Kyralis]

A single HT for 1.4k- and that HT is hitting a betabuffed character, which means my resists are horrible and my fully buffed wis is under 200 - is not the same as consistent burst dps. And, I'll point out, I was perfectly able to heal past that single HT. You guys are taking things in isolation. 1) NPC burst damage has been lowered. They cast spells less frequently, they don't hit as hard. 2) On a raid, we're not the only healers. We provide MT support, especially with resists, and we supply the most efficient healing in the game. Raids are not solely based on burst dps- in fact, the majority of a raid is *not* burst dps. It's a steady decline in tank HPs that needs to be negated by incoming healing, which we provide, frankly, better than any other class. Leaving the other classes- such as furies, who have the fastest heals in the game now- to do the immediate post-spike mop-up healing. Is burst damage important? Yes. Can we deal with burst damage? Yes. Perhaps not quite as well as some other classes, but yes, we can deal with burst damage- at the very least, sufficiently to heal a group and not be a liability. We cannot expect to be best at everything. I'm completely satisified with our ability to deal with burst dps right now; I'm also very pleased with our ability to heal efficiently. <div></div>

[Urkra]

<P>Caerwyn you disagree with me - but i really don't think you read my proposal because in fact i am not saying i am unhappy with our heals, i am unhappy with the mechanic, as they are not direct heals anymore.</P> <P>Let me elaborate a bit, i am not betabuffed i am copied, my spells are master/adept III and reasonably equipped (no prismatic but power regen is not an issue). I hardly ever run out of mana i've noticed. I can last vs. spectre for more than 40min without killing them nor them killing me. They lifetap wehen they get to 89% and go back to 95%, and i can put up with their dmg easily and their HT i just stack the three regn and i survive. I do not kill them and they do not kill me.</P> <P>Having said that the problem is not what i can/cannot solo - as my heals keep me alive i have noticed. My problem is that there is no reason why our spell work this way when there is another way of making them work which do no makes us overpowered but makes us a little bit more able to cope with dire situations - which at present we can't.</P> <P>CURRENT SITUATION</P> <P>Sec  0      Casting SW<BR>Sec  1.5   Healing for 240 <BR>Sec  2.5   Tick 50HP<BR>Sec  3.5   Tick 50HP<BR>Sec  4.5   Tick 50HP<BR>Sec  5.5   Tick 50HP<BR>Sec  6.5   Tick 50HP<BR>Sec  7.5   Tick 50HP</P> <P>Total healed in 7.5seconds 540hp</P> <P>PROPOSED Mechanics</P> <P>Sec  0      Casting SW<BR>Sec  1.5   Healing for 390 <BR>Sec  2.5   No tick <BR>Sec  3.5   Tick 50HP<BR>Sec  4.5   No tick <BR>Sec  5.5   Tick 50HP<BR>Sec  6.5   No tick <BR>Sec  7.5   Tick 50HP</P> <P>Total healed in 7.5seconds 540hp <STRONG><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>(Nothing has changed !!!)</FONT></EM></STRONG></P> <P>And doind a similar on VR would allow for the following:</P> <P>1. Do not unbalance us as our burst heals is still the lwoest of all healing classes.<BR>2. Gives us a bit more capability of responding to burst damage, not a great one but minimal.<BR>3. Do not change any efficiency/speed paramenter as our HP/P and HP/s will stay the same.</P> <P>Now i know you will say you disagree, but please this time mention a reason why you disagree, you seems to say you disagree a lot but not saying why in all and avery post. </P>

[Kyralis]

<div></div>My disagreement with that is twofold. First, I don't think it's needed, and in the spirit of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", I'd suggest that the developers leave the spells alone, as they have a tendency to nerf... Second, we currently heal (with direct heals, that is) about 20x (174x vs 154x for all other healers) more over the course of a minute than any other healer. We have a *striking* healing and efficiency boost as a tradeoff for our lack of the same burst healing that other priests get. I feel that the developers would need to remove part of our healing advantage if they gave us back some of the burst healing- and frankly, I'd rather thave the healing advantage. Therefore, I'd prefer that the current split stay. I understand what you're suggesting, but you have to realize that our lack of burst healing is a direct trade-off for something rather than simply a random gameplay mechanic thrown in to screw us up. I very much like the tradeoff that was made, at least with regard to direct heals, so I'd rather we keep it as it is instead of going back the other way. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Caerwyn on <span class=date_text>08-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:05 AM</span>

[Urkra]

<DIV>I agree there must be a tradeoff if we can heal for 178x vs 158x other heals can dish out (not sure of exact number but that is about the comparison - sorry but the way you put it saying we heal 20x more than others gives the wrong impression we heal 20 times more when isntead we barely heal 10% more in fact). But the tradeoff in place now is just too harsh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sylvan Waters cannot even be considered a Direct Heal anymore as things stand. It's just another chloroplast with a bigger first tick and not lasting as long.</DIV>

[Ravenmi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caerwyn wrote:<BR>My disagreement with that is twofold.<BR><BR>First, I don't think it's needed, and in the spirit of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", I'd suggest that the developers leave the spells alone, as they have a tendency to nerf...<BR><BR>Second, we currently heal (with direct heals, that is) about 20x more over the course of a minute than any other healer. We have a *striking* healing and efficiency boost as a tradeoff for our lack of the same burst healing that other priests get. I feel that the developers would need to remove part of our healing advantage if they gave us back some of the burst healing- and frankly, I'd rather thave the healing advantage. Therefore, I'd prefer that the current split stay.<BR><BR>I understand what you're suggesting, but you have to realize that our lack of burst healing is a direct trade-off for something rather than simply a random gameplay mechanic thrown in to screw us up. I very much like the tradeoff that was made, at least with regard to direct heals, so I'd rather we keep it as it is instead of going back the other way.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I've been testing the new healing changes as well and I whole heartedly agree with Caerwyn here.  Burst damage is not an issue if you manage your spells well.  I was fight some Wraith type creatures, level 55 ^^^ mobs solo as well as some level 60 and 61^^^ in a group with my 57 Warden and had no issue at all keeping up with health as the only healer.  Its a different style sure, but its not hard to accomplish.</P> <P>Overall our healing efficiency is the best because we have no strong Direct Heals.  Its the tradeoff and the whole agruement why we should have the best efficiency and hp/s ratio.  All your proposal is likely to do is get us nerfed when right now we are amazing healers.</P> <P>What else some of you don't seem to understand is that the regen portion of these spells is up as fast or faster then the recast on them.  That means if you spam these as fast as you can cast them, YOU are still healing for the full amount and healing for more then anyone else could in that time period.</P> <P>VR still heals for a nice chunk up front, 600ish if I'm remembering right.  Overall I'm having an easier time keeping up with health and being efficient on beta right now then I am on live.... as Denis Leary would say.. "wake up and smell the maple nut crunch" people. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  We got a good deal here.<BR></P>

[Ravenmi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tuved2 wrote:<BR> Hmmmm aren't these exactly the problems I said we'd have when everyone jumped all over me? <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I doesn't matter if the numbers on some stupid formula show us healing more than templars or more efficiently than templars if the heal is in the wrong form at the wrong time. We can be the most efficient healers in the world and still have a dead MT.  I'll take large powerful heals any day over efficiency.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like I said yesterday. These changes make us backup healers not primary healers. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Wrong again Tuved! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 

[Shennr]

<DIV>I see us Warden's actually now being more of a Primary healer where as any burst healer would be a back up healer. It sounds me me like that we can still heal fine in any situation and if your going to have a main healer healing the whole time then wouldn't you want the most efficient healer? The burst healers add in their speciality when things do get rough like fighting a named mob. You will need that burst healing only if the tank does get to like 20% health and your heals are just barely not enough.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, the only one thing that I see flawed here is when you are in a raid situation and the MT is being mildly hit. Logic says get the tank back up to full health asap. Well with other priests in the raid you will have a tank from 50% health back up to 100% health in 3 secs. In this scenario our HoT effect is wasted and we barely contribute to putting the tank back up to full health vs. the other healers. I do know that on Live servers this happens most of the fight were the tank gets hit once or twice really hard and all the healers pump the MT back to full health within the time that it takes to cast and land the spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where we will shine at are the instances that I have seen on live servers, which is a small portion of the fight, where the tank is hovering between 10% and 50% health. The tank is getting whacked on continuously to where you can't get the tank back up to full health immediatly with every priest spam healing. Our heals will shine because we will be having the best heal ratios and the whole spell duration will be landing. We will be contributing the most health to the tank vs any other priest class within this time period. It won't be in the form of burst healing but we will be in fact healing the most. To me this is the most dire time in the fight and I am happy to be the one who gets this end of the healing stick.</DIV>

[Tenol]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tuved2 wrote:<BR> Hmmmm aren't these exactly the problems I said we'd have when everyone jumped all over me? <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I doesn't matter if the numbers on some stupid formula show us healing more than templars or more efficiently than templars if the heal is in the wrong form at the wrong time. We can be the most efficient healers in the world and still have a dead MT.  I'll take large powerful heals any day over efficiency.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like I said yesterday. These changes make us backup healers not primary healers.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tuved2 on <SPAN class=date_text>08-28-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:42 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If your looking at 1 single heal in our line up of heals, yes, your gonna see flaws. Our direct heals are support heals for our regen. Now I can't quote you Tier 5 spells cause I am useing Tier 6 spells atm on my Beta warden. BUT i have absolutely no problem what-so-ever being the only healer and being able to keep a full group up. Even with a monk tanking, wich i ahve to say, are a hell of a lot easier to heal post-revamp. Stop with the animosity, we as wardens have not taken a hit at all with our heals. If you have to complain about something complain about the fact of our 3 upgrades of water breathing, or the fact that our wolf form is a 3 con. buff. Warden heals are fine, our nukes are fine, are buffs are fine. SoE did a good job so far with the combat changes. DoF is gonna be a good expansion, and I will be back to tell you how great we do in MT groups on raids once i hit 60.

[Tuved2]

OK, enough T6 Wardens on test or beta have reported more than adequate healing abilities, that I'm reasured. I was basing my impression on some negative posts. If folks are healing great with these changes then I'm excited for them and looking forward to trying them myself.

[Unmask]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shennron wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, the only one thing that I see flawed here is when you are in a raid situation and the MT is being mildly hit. Logic says get the tank back up to full health asap. Well with other priests in the raid you will have a tank from 50% health back up to 100% health in 3 secs. In this scenario our HoT effect is wasted and we barely contribute to putting the tank back up to full health vs. the other healers. I do know that on Live servers this happens most of the fight were the tank gets hit once or twice really hard and all the healers pump the MT back to full health within the time that it takes to cast and land the spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not getting into beta I'm still quite a bit unsure of exactly how we are going to work.  While in experience groups I never really worried about "burst damage" except when we got unanticipated adds.  In live, that is normally better handled by a templar but my understanding of our beta wardens makes me think we will be very good in these situations.  However, I anticpate that raids will be similar to how they are now on live where you have one big baddy who will deal out large chunks of damage which does not look like something we can respond to well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While it's true that these situations might onccur infrequently over the course of a raid this is where it succeeds or fails.  Hoperfully we will have buffs that make this situation less likely but it just seems that our viability on that end has been reduced.  It's always been my opinion that wardens were not wanted on raids because of our healing but because of our buffs (the healing is a bonus) since if the tank's in the red casting a big heal in 3s isn't a great way of averting the situation..  Anyway with duststorm currently being useless and furies also able to buff wisdom and elemental 9and able to cure both elemental and noxious), do we expect to get booted from the MT group?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A bit off topic, I kind of hope we are made less important to a raid from a selfish perspective.  Currently wardens are very important to raids because of the buffs we add bring to the MT.  Currently i am the only active warden in my guild and I feel guilty if I don't log in (of course the one day I don't log in both the cryptic tunic and bauble from zek get dropped, both of which I had been waiting for).  I'd much prefer if there was no one class that was considered essential to a raid and that we all had our uses, so that pretty much any 24 could log on and raid without having to say we can't raid because we have no warden/templar/guardian etc. today.  I'm not suggesting we get nerfed of course.</DIV>

[Maelakai]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tenolas wrote:<BR><BR>Warden heals are fine, our nukes are fine, are buffs are fine. SoE did a good job so far with the combat changes. DoF is gonna be a good expansion, and I will be back to tell you how great we do in MT groups on raids once i hit 60. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thank you Tenolas for the reassurance.  Could you tell us if they have fixed Duststorm yet?</DIV>

[Ravenmi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maelakai wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tenolas wrote:<BR><BR>Warden heals are fine, our nukes are fine, are buffs are fine. SoE did a good job so far with the combat changes. DoF is gonna be a good expansion, and I will be back to tell you how great we do in MT groups on raids once i hit 60. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thank you Tenolas for the reassurance.  Could you tell us if they have fixed Duststorm yet?</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Still worthless, we'll let ya know if that changes tho. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Ravenmi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shennron wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, the only one thing that I see flawed here is when you are in a raid situation and the MT is being mildly hit. Logic says get the tank back up to full health asap. Well with other priests in the raid you will have a tank from 50% health back up to 100% health in 3 secs. In this scenario our HoT effect is wasted and we barely contribute to putting the tank back up to full health vs. the other healers. I do know that on Live servers this happens most of the fight were the tank gets hit once or twice really hard and all the healers pump the MT back to full health within the time that it takes to cast and land the spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where we will shine at are the instances that I have seen on live servers, which is a small portion of the fight, where the tank is hovering between 10% and 50% health. The tank is getting whacked on continuously to where you can't get the tank back up to full health immediatly with every priest spam healing. Our heals will shine because we will be having the best heal ratios and the whole spell duration will be landing. We will be contributing the most health to the tank vs any other priest class within this time period. It won't be in the form of burst healing but we will be in fact healing the most. To me this is the most dire time in the fight and I am happy to be the one who gets this end of the healing stick.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Don't agree here, I think our heals are actually more efficient in the scenario's where all the healers are throwing a big heal on a tank to get them back up to 100% fast.  In these situations you often have a huge overheal where more healers are healing then need be and one or more heals are completely wasted often times, or most of the heal is wasted.  In these cases our heals are going to be the only ones that aren't a complete waste because when that next hit comes in on that Tank, our heal is going to still be there putting his hps back up where the other heals where just wasted.<BR>

[nierika]

<P>I want to put  big THANK YOU to all of the wardens who are testing and posting feedback regarding the changes being made to our class... I was extremely concerned for two weeks because I thought all of my hard work towards my main character was being thrown away.  Now I feel very positive about the upcoming changes... thank you so much!</P> <P> </P>

[Shakko]

<div></div>I was actually able to handle healing a group of five while fighting two heroic groups (one added on us--those [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] towers are tricky).  Verdant Rapture is more than enough to bring the unfortunate mages who grab aggro back to green, which has happened quite a bit in all the groups I've been in.  Getting the tank out of orange / red can be tricky, especially since I was stuck with mostly App 1 spells, but it's very doable.  With the recent training options revamp I thought we took a huge hit with Verdant Rapture, which was removed as an option to get as Master II (at least until level 54, guess we'll see if there's an option then).  However, Sylvan Waters was an option, which works phenominally well.  Figure around 10% initial burst heal on the tank, with another 10% after the first few seconds of the stacked HoTs.   After a few ticks you can toss another SW on, and maybe squeeze in a VR (I was using nature's embrace master II, though, since that was a training option at 34, and was better than app1 VR).  Group taking some AOE damage?  Gale of Healing handles that great.  Just don't expect to be able to keep the tank at or near 100% the whole fight, though.  Which is an added bonus, since we don't want our HoT's to go to waste. Edited because I forgot to mention something! Root and cook is actually somewhat doable with the roots given to us now!  All of you EQ1 vets know what I'm talking about.  The mechanics are a bit different, but overall it's effective.  Root a mob using your single target root, toss in a few DD's with a HO, use your group root to keep him in place again, toss in a few DD's with a HO, use your single target root, toss in a few DD's with a HO, kite a little bit (or just jump in, depending what you wanna do) while waiting for your group roots timer to refresh.  DoT's seem to break the roots a -lot- so I can't suggest true rooting and cooking, but still.  This made Paithen happy. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Shakko on <span class=date_text>08-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:45 PM</span>

[Sorano]

<DIV><FONT color=#66cc66> Melee auto-attack and combat arts now process the strength bonus properly and should be noticeably higher.<BR></FONT><FONT color=#66cc66></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66cc66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Has this effected our healing? Are we still keeping up with incoming damage?</DIV>

[Unmask]

Should hopefully reduce our agro a little.

[Sorano]

<P>The reason I ask is because of this post by Moorgard:</P> <P><FONT color=#33cc66>Strength affects both auto-attack damage and combat art damage.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66>The bug currently on Beta and Test (fix going out in the morning to Beta and later this week on Test) is that the STR bonus wasn't being applied correctly, thus melee damage was quite broken. So any DPS parses for melee damage are tainted, to say the least.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0033>The melee damage of both players and NPCs should be much more meaningful when the bug fix goes in.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33cc66>As for the second part of your question, strength affects only damage--buffs, taunts, and other non-damage spells don't care what your STR is.</FONT></DIV> <P><FONT color=#33cc66>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest II</FONT> </P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So that's why I am interested to know what the changes mean. Do our stacking HoTs still keep up with the increased NPC melee damage?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Shakko]

I can't see that it'd be a real problem.  As it stands right now, healing single heroic group encounters is easy as pie, so hopefully this'll make it easy as...devil's food cake.  Still easy but a bit more concentration needed. Yeah. <div></div>

[Tenol]

<P>Duststorm, or its upgrade Sandstorm, IMHO is for PVP. Yes it has a nice def buff but the mana tick ont he spell hurts us. They did just fix the "knockback" proc on it and it is working now. But I see Praise of the Untamed or its upgrade Exhalation of the Untamed as our trade off. Exhalation is a 1600+ point Ward and a nice Heat and Cold Mitigation buff with the reuse timer now reduced to 2 minutes, stack that with the Sandstorm on a pull and you have a nice buffer to play with. After the pull drop the sandstorm and go to healing and debuffing, once the Untamed spell is back up, drop both spells on the group again for a mid fight buffer incase things are getting fishy. So i think our combination of buffs are more elaborate, and our "busy" work in groups and raids are increased, wich to me, is great, i enjoy having things to do, i enjoy fighting on the edge of my seat. Yet we still have the heals (incase we feel lazy) to just sit back and heal. Now with the seperation of cures and a mroe distinct break down of the resistances priests can buff, i don't think wardens will be the MT healer all the time, but we still bring enough non-MT abilities to the raid/group that i doubt having sandstorm a constant buff that we bring up, is really a topic of discussion. THOUGH on pvp this spell is seriously wicked, PC's actaully do get a blur affect inflicted on them, in wich they have trouble see, as well as being stunned, completely puts a melle or a fighter at bay, while being able to take out the hard hitting mages. I still get owned in one Ice comet though.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Tenolas Naturewalker</P> <P>Shadow Syndicate</P> <P>Najena Server</P> <P align=left>50 Warden/ 46 Jeweler</P>

[Ravenmi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tenolas wrote:<BR> <P> I still get owned in one Ice comet though.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Whats your cold resist? I have over 70% mitigation to cold based damage...    which might actually matter if they stopped breaking resists. <p>Message Edited by Ravenmist on <span class=date_text>09-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:31 AM</span>