Spell analysis and Reusablity in the End Game: 20-29.6

[Frostborne]

Introduction:Ok, so I'm level 24, and am looking to use my gold ore on a Adept 3. I decided to look hard at the spells to determine the "value" of spells, what you get for replacing them, and how good they are vs. other spells.I made a ranking from 1 to 5 in two categories:Reusability, which means how much I can use it past my level range and how many "upgrades" there are and when they appear. The more upgrades and the sooner they occur, the less reuse it has. The use fo range has to do 20- Protector of the Forest: self only wolf form + hp/pow/ac, see invis., + offensive proc.Advantages: More Power, AC and HPs + offensive melee proc.Disadvantages: I'm not really a meleeer, though it is nice. This spell gets replaced by Warden of the Forest at 34.Use for range : 5Reusability past range: 1 (Gets replaced at 34 and 48.6)21- Ensnaring Roots: single target agi debuff + snareAdvantages: Very nice debuff, and with snaring fix going on, could be potentially very nice.Disadvantages: Already have Adept 1, so is going to Adept 3 going to make much of a difference?Use for range : 5Reusability past range: 1 (Gets replaced at 35, 49)23- Blessing of the Grove: single target HoT + elem. resist buffAdvantages: Very nice HOT.Disadvantages: Gets replaced later on by many, many spells.Use for range : 4Reusability past range: 1 (Gets replaced at 35, 49)24- Cold Snap: cold DoT + elem. resist debuffAdvantage: Very nice Cold DOT, and resist debuff.Disadvantage: Gets replaced later on by Frostbite, so has reuse issues. Question is does it stack with Coldsnap? Would improve value of the spell greatly. (1 of 3 DOT's wardens get).Use for range: 5Resuability past range: 124.6- Barbcoat: damage shieldAdvantage: Already have Adept 3 Nettleshield, so Adept 3 Barbcoat might be awesome to stack with nettleshield.Disadvantage: Damage shields haven't been impressing me much...agro switching, and small amount of damage they do doesn't seem to really seeem to be worth it. Gets replaced by Bramblecoat, but question is does it stack with it. If it does, it would greatly increase it's reusablity.Use for range: 5Resuability past range: 1 (5)25- Frost: cold dd + dam. to elementalsAdvantage: Big damage....Disadvantage: Gets replaced later so doesn't have a lot of "reusability". Gets replaced at 39.Use for range: 5Resuability past range: 226- Primeval Instinct: single target + offense buffAdvantage: Nice offensive buff, good for hard named red mobs with high defence.Disadvantage: I'm not offensive for the most part, and melee isn't my specialty.Use for range: 4Resuability past range: 3 (gets replaced at 40, not sure if it's stackable).27- Wisp: PBoE hate reduce + slow + small teleport(This even upgradable?)28.4- Healing Breeze: party healAdvantage: A party heal, more healing of party, but rarely use "party heals". Also, they tend to amp up agro, which can be good (if you want it) and bad (if you don't).Disadvantage: Gets replaced later on at 42 Use for range: 4Resuability past range: 3 (one of only 2 group heals) past 28.28.8- Blessing of Earth: party HoT + small elemental wardAdvantage: Elm wards are nice for fighting spell casting mobs.Disadvantage: replaced at 42 by ChlorostormUse for range: 5Resuability past range: 1 (5)29- Favor of the Untamed: party +hp & elemental resist buffAdvantage: Nice buff....think this replaces Wild spirits, good for fighting spell casters.Disadvantage: Gets replaced fairly soon with Protection of Seasons, unless it stacks with it. Don't know till I get there. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Use for range: 3Resuability past range: 229.6- Natures Caress: single heal + small HoTAdvantage: I've heard this is an awesome heal...and that might be my single most important function.Disadvatage: Gets replaced by Nature's Embrace soon at 32 and 41.Use for range: 5Resuability past range: 2Summary: So far my choice is leading me to Barbcoat is the most reusable spell in this range. Though I like some of the improvements I would get from other spells, the fact they are upgraded soon and often, leads me to stay away from upgrading them. Cold Snap in second place, though I'm not sure if Cold Snap would stack. Frost is nice since you don't get your next cold direct damage spell till 39, but since it's not very "reusable", I'd opt for Cold Snap.<p>Message Edited by Frostborne on <span class=date_text>12-29-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:34 AM</span><p>Message Edited by Frostborne on <span class=date_text>12-29-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:35 AM</span>

[Unmask]

<DIV>Hmm.  Gold is common.  I assume you meant jasper or palladium (which I used for cold snap), and adept 3 rather than app 3?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: And at 25, regrowth seriously owns BotG so not only have I not upgraded it I don't even cast it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can say that cold snap at adept 3 is very much worthwhile as it does about 60 (55-65 it seems) per tick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And it's been my experience that spells with the same icon will not stack.  So while I haven't tried it, I don't think that nettleshield will stack with barbcoat.  I suppose I can test this tonight.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Unmasked on <span class=date_text>12-22-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:10 AM</span>

[Frostborne]

<blockquote><hr>Unmasked wrote:<DIV></div><DIV>Hmm. Gold is common. I assume you meant jasper or palladium (which I used for cold snap), and adept 3 rather than app 3?</div><DIV> </div><DIV>Edit: And at 25, regrowth seriously owns BotG so not only have I not upgraded it I don't even cast it.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>I can say that cold snap at adept 3 is very much worthwhile as it does about 60 (55-65 it seems) per tick.</div><DIV> </div><DIV>And it's been my experience that spells with the same icon will not stack. So while I haven't tried it, I don't think that nettleshield will stack with barbcoat. I suppose I can test this tonight.</div><p>Message Edited by Unmasked on <span class=date_text>12-22-2004</span> <span class=time_text>09:10 AM</span><hr></blockquote>I agree and have had the same experience with BoTG. BoTG doesn't beat it till you get in your 30's.That said, I'm not sure if Coldsnap is worth it, but if it stacks (cold elm debuff and all) with other DOT debuff spells, it would be well worth it. Especially if you are using a master DD spell that is cold based.I've heard that barbcoat and bristlecoat stack, but again, not sure. Would be nice to know.Also, gold is not common at tier 3. Gold is a tier 3 rare, like silver is at tier 2. FYI.

[Kal]

Really hate to be the bearer of bad news...Gold is a Tier 3 commonFor Tier 3:Common precious metal, gem: gold cluster, rough agateRare precious metal, gem: palladium cluster, rough jasperSorry if you were mislead by someone.

[shtychk]

<DIV>Im doing BotG, Barbcoat & Coldsnap all Adept3....</DIV>

[Ballyh]

<DIV>Nature's Caress supposedly stacks with Nature's Embrace, so it isn't replaced.  This means it will continue to be useful for a long time.  I would recommend upgrading Nature's Caress out of all the spells you listed.  DoTs and buffs are nice, but healing is really why we are invited to groups.  </DIV>

[YanZh]

<DIV>I will pile on here, and confirm that gold is NOT a tier 3 rare.  As a level 27 sage, you need to trust me on this one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are looking for apprentice 3, you can probably find them on your server in the 50-90 silver range (I charge 60 silver on Lucan).  If you have palladium or jasper for an adept 3, that's a whole different can of worms...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With that in mind, I encourage you to upgrade all your spells to apprentice 3 or adept 1, especially if you buy from me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yan Zhou</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>aka Luci on Lucan</DIV>

[Frostborne]

<blockquote><hr>Kal wrote:Really hate to be the bearer of bad news...Gold is a Tier 3 commonFor Tier 3:Common precious metal, gem: gold cluster, rough agateRare precious metal, gem: palladium cluster, rough jasperSorry if you were mislead by someone.<hr></blockquote>[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thanks. My bad. I just assumed after silver would be gold. Their system isn't ever intuitive. Anyways, was fun to look!

[Unmask]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Frostborne wrote:<BR><BR>That said, I'm not sure if Coldsnap is worth it, but if it stacks (cold elm debuff and all) with other DOT debuff spells, it would be well worth it. Especially if you are using a master DD spell that is cold based.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well my 3 DDs at 25 are smite (plus my gnoll master version), chill and Frost.  And frost has a low enough delay that i never need to cast chill.  In any case, a DoT that does a cold based debuff when I have an adept 1 cold DD is quite handy.</P> <P>I'm a little down on barbcoat (also adept 1).  Against skellies it only seems to do around 10 damage and I expected more.  Will it do more to mobs with skin and internal organs? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[Saepiro]

<DIV>note he keeps saying app3, this is a parody post.</DIV>

[Ael]

<DIV> One other thing to note is that even if you don't melee much Primeval instint is castable on others in your party so it is usable. It doesn't buff up much (I just got an AppIII and haven't tried it yet to see how much that is) but any increase on the MT isn't a bad idea. </DIV>

[Kyralis]

Primeval Instinct and its upgrades is a godsend if you have a lower level melee in your party fighting mobs that are red to him. Dropping PI on him basically improves his melee level by two or more, making him hit as if the mob was orange instead of red- this can be a significant increase in damage.At 47, other than the big 4 buff lines (no, vigor is not included here...) + wolf form, the buffs that see any use at all are:1) Nature's Reprieve. A lifesaver. Literally.2) Primal Instinct (or whatever the version I have now is called <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). Very useful to boost dps when that's critical.3) Damage shield. 15 might not look like much, but if you're fighting 3+ mobs at a time, you might be surprised how fast that adds up to an extra couple nukes.4) Neried's Kiss. Don't laugh- the arcane resist buff part has saved my life more than once, and in Everfrost that waterbreathing is nothing to scoff at...

[neble]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caerwyn wrote:<BR>Primeval Instinct and its upgrades is a godsend if you have a lower level melee in your party fighting mobs that are red to him. Dropping PI on him basically improves his melee level by two or more, making him hit as if the mob was orange instead of red- this can be a significant increase in damage.<BR><BR>At 47, other than the big 4 buff lines (no, vigor is not included here...) + wolf form, the buffs that see any use at all are:<BR>1) Nature's Reprieve. A lifesaver. Literally.<BR>2) Primal Instinct (or whatever the version I have now is called <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). Very useful to boost dps when that's critical.<BR>3) Damage shield. 15 might not look like much, but if you're fighting 3+ mobs at a time, you might be surprised how fast that adds up to an extra couple nukes.<BR>4) Neried's Kiss. Don't laugh- the arcane resist buff part has saved my life more than once, and in Everfrost that waterbreathing is nothing to scoff at...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Interesting post Cae.  Fishbone earring quest is da bomb though.  You eqiup, use, then swap back to your regular earring and think not about water breathing again.  The arcane resist buff sounds like a good point though, will have to try that.  I've tried to do a lot of testing on our upper level buffs and have noticed some funny things happening.  Like if I cast Willowskin it'll buff hps, but then when you drop it not all the hps disappear.  Also if I try to stack Oakskin with other buffs in place of Willowskin (aside from being single cast and that sucking), it doesnt seem to even provide the same buff it does when casting Oakskin by itself.  Protection of the Seasons also seems to provide less AC than Wild spirit is it?  Even though it provides more in everything else (agi, wisdom, power, etc).  I think there is either a TON of bugs in our upper level buffs, or there are simply some calculation errors going on in the "P" screen when these buffs are applied.  You noticing this at all?<p>Message Edited by neblehK on <span class=date_text>12-27-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:23 PM</span>

[Kyralis]

Buffs at all levels appear to have... interesting... stacking issues. I'm hoping it gets resolved in the fabled "big update", so I'm not going to complain much until we find out one way or another.

[neble]

<DIV>I think they're afraid to do a big update after what happend from that small update.... Fabled is right, lol.</DIV>