BUG: Direct Heals Not Stacking

[Sinnester]

<DIV>My guild was raiding last night.  Imagine how frustrated I was when the mob was pulled and I found that I was receiving "Would Not Take Effect" messages when casting my direct heals!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Mystic in the group was also receiving these messages.   I've grouped enough with mystics, inquisitors and defilers to know that their heals are stacking properly with ours.  The problem appears to be with the Fury and Warden.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Fury I was grouped with last night was lvl 60, the Mystic lvl 57 and I was lvl 56.  I know the Fury has his new lvl 60 direct heal spells while the other 2 of us didn't.   Now, in the past with our debuffs and Mark of Kings if you had a higher lvl of spell it would overwrite the lower one.   However, direct heals have never been effected by this in the past.   If they are now not going to allow my direct heals to be cast because the Fury has it takes away half of my healing ability.  This is also happening with the Warden.  I've also noticed that our reactives appear to be overwritting Defilers/Wardens wards/regens but I'll let them gripe about that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whatever is the case, we have a stacking problem and it needs to be addressed immediately.   If you haven't been affected yet by them, you soon will be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SoE, PLEASE do not put this off.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Sinnester on <span class=date_text>09-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:33 AM</span>

[Blast2hell]

my guild cancelled raiding till the priest stacking issues are corrected.  I didn't realize it was that bad on direct heals as well, but  I know the single target react/ward/hot spells were haivng issues.     We have one inquistor in the guild that's 56 and the rest of us clerics are still 52 or 53, so none of us can cast our single target reactive, we all get "would not take effect".   And we have 4 templars and 3 inquisitors heh.  So you got 6 players right there who can't use one of the primary spells that defines there class.

[Salastine]

<P>It's the Warden that's causing the issues, not the Fury.  As their regen from the direct heals tics, nobody who has a lesser teir direct heal will be allowed to heal until the regen is complete.</P> <P>There are two completely [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] "band-aid" fixes for this in the short-term.</P> <P>1) The warden doesn't direct heal</P> <P>2) The warden uses T5 direct heals instead of T6 direct heals.</P> <P>It's broken, and needs to be fixed ASAP.</P>

[Sinnester]

There wasn't a warden in my MT group last night.  Are you saying that this problem is raid wide?  We did have 2 wardens in the raid.

[Blast2hell]

<P>yeah, it's raid wide.    The poor coding  basically checks if the spell your casting is already present, if it is, and the spell is of same tier, it will let your overwrite,   if spell is of a higher tier, you get   the would not take effect.    </P> <P>The direct heals are spells that can be casted outside of group.   So if someone of a higher tier is in another group, and cast the spell, everyone else is blocked.</P> <P> </P> <P>On the other hand, if the warden is in the same tier, his end effect on his spell is being cancelled everytime someone else casts, so he's not getting to full effect from his spell.</P>

[fra]

My guild was also having similar problems with heal stacking. I have the Master II Grand Intercession and the other clerics in guild did not. None of them could cast single target reactives because mine was too powerful. This needs to be fixed asap.

[Blast2hell]

yeah, if you're casting your level 54 spell, then there spells from previous to that one will not work.   Now   if they were 54, and say the Inquistor for some reason only had his level 54 reactive at Adept 1,  it would cancel your Master 2 Grand Intersession.   So, besides cancelling, it's not checking spell quality. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Although, spell quality to the side, an inquisitor reactive shouldn't have a darn thing to do with a templar reactive...sadly it does.</DIV>

[Sinnester]

<P>Our single target reactive has never stacked.  If the spells are the same lvl it would overwrite the prior single reactive.   If another templar had a master single reactive, you would receive the message "will nto take effect".   </P> <P>Reactives are not the problem, I expect them to not stack with other templars (unless they changed this).</P> <P>I DO expect to be able to cast my single target direct heals at any time.</P>

[Salastine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sinnester wrote:<BR> <P>Our single target reactive has never stacked.  If the spells are the same lvl it would overwrite the prior single reactive.   If another templar had a master single reactive, you would receive the message "will nto take effect".   </P> <P>Reactives are not the problem, I expect them to not stack with other templars (unless they changed this).</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Reactives ARE a (another) Problem.  In the past Templar+Templar reactives did not stack, and Inquisitor+Inquisitor reactives did not stack.  However, now, TEMPLAR+INQUISITOR reactives do not stack, period. They cannot be maintained on the same person, at the same time.</P> <P>For example: In the past, this was possible:</P> <P>Templar keeps Greater Intercession on tank, Inquisitor keeps Stinging Pennance on tank.  They would fire serially, whichever one was on first fires first, then the other.  You could keep reactives firing on a tank 100% of the time so long as both inquisitor and templar kept their individual reactives up.</P> <P>Currently:</P> <P>Stinging pennance OVERWRITES Greater Intercession, and vice versa.  They CANNOT be on a single person at the same time, and there will always be down-time between reactives firing unless both classes are spamming (and overwriting/wasting) reactives.  Furthermore, if i'm an inquisitor with my level 54 Woeful Pennance (single reactive), you as a 53 (or less) Templar will NEVER be able to cast Greater intercession on any target that has my reactive.</P> <P>Go try it... grab a friendly inquisitor, and cast your single reactive on them.  Then have them cast theirs on themself.  Yours will cancel when theirs lands.  And vice-versa.</P> <P>The same is currently true for Shaman wards, and Druid regens... they're not stacking between subclasses  Furthermore, as Blast said, there is no check for spell quality either.  Your master 2 Greater Intercession can be OVERWRITTEN by apprentice 1 stinging pennance (or someone else with app1 Greater Intercession, for that matter.)</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>The healer stacking issue is VERY deep at the moment, and more people will realize it when/if they start raiding.  Multiple healers are crippled atm, and it's wiping a LOT (and i mean a LOT) of raids.</P> <P><BR> </P> <p>Message Edited by Salastine on <span class=date_text>09-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:50 AM</span>

[Blast2hell]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sinnester wrote:<BR> <P>Our single target reactive has never stacked.  If the spells are the same lvl it would overwrite the prior single reactive.   If another templar had a master single reactive, you would receive the message "will nto take effect".   </P> <P>Reactives are not the problem, I expect them to not stack with other templars (unless they changed this).</P> <P>I DO expect to be able to cast my single target direct heals at any time.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yeah if it was just a templar to templar issue, I wouldn't bat an eye, but  when an inquistor is effecting me, that's not right, and that's why I'm throwing the red flag.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And before, when grouped with other templars,  we would assign reactives to each other, one person casting greater intersession, another casting supplicant prayer, someone on BoV maybe,  so that way we still stacked, since you could stack all those spells, but now that won't happen since you can't cast a lower tier.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are supposed to stack better together, that's what they said.  They said they put the code in to make same classes work better together.  So fine, I can't cast a lower level reactive, then I should be able to have GI up on the tank along with another Templar.  Course, that's just my opinion.  But if you have two healers, or 8 healer,  they should be able to work as if they were 8 healers, not partial healers due to stacking rules.   </DIV>

[Jida]

/agree.. this is going to make the end game VERY unbearable <div></div>

[Kayle]

<DIV> <P></P> <HR> Sinnester wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Our single target reactive has never stacked.  If the spells are the same lvl it would overwrite the prior single reactive.   If another templar had a master single reactive, you would receive the message "will nto take effect".  </P> <P>Reactives are not the problem, I expect them to not stack with other templars (unless they changed this).</P> <P>I DO expect to be able to cast my single target direct heals at any time.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I also put this in the combat feedback forum, but I'll put it here too.</P> <P>We tested what you say this morning with a level 58 Warden and me, a level 54 Templar.  The warden had no overwrite issues but I had to constantly repeat casting of Grand Intercession (Master II) and Crucial Intercession (Master I).  They didn't stack and the warden line took precedence every time.</P> <P>Ok, he was 4 levels above me, but you're right, you used to get the message 'will not take effect', but the only thing you notice now is that the spell expired before it should have.  I could also cast it every single time and it stuck.   The difference was in how long it remained on the tank, which was sporatic.  I'm wondering if there's now just a maximum you can heal for up at a time on one person and once that's met, the heal is considered done.  That would explain why it stuck and why the time it lasted was sporatic.</P> <P>Oddly enough, we didn't seem to have any problems with direct heals.  The warden direct healed the same time I did and both succeeded in healing the tank.  That was this morning.</P> <P>Also noticed the warden didn't have any aggro issues and healed and pre-healed more then I did.  Yet sometimes I didn't do a thing yet and the mobs came gunning for me, the templar, with the warden heals currenly on the tank.  Go figure.  The only thing I could think that was attributable to was the hate reduction spell used by the ranger at the time of the pull that sent things off kilter.  The templar was farther from range then the warden too.  That was annoying.  Yesterday without that ranger, it did not happen as much.  Just some observations.</P> <P>We're still testing it and sending feedback.  Last week I had no stacking issues grouping with another templar one level below me and yesterday no issues with another templar 4 levels above me.   I haven't checked the log on that yet though, but I have it.</P> <P>I'll test is some more today and let you know how it goes.</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kaylena on <span class=date_text>09-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:48 PM</span>

[Ember]

<P>I also noticed last night if you cast the same single reactive while it is already up then both show up on the maintained spells and when the old one expires they both expire.  So casting a reactive before the old one wears off is not a good thing...</P> <P>I think the new one should overwrite the old one.</P> <DIV>Edit:  Ok scratch this.  I logged on this morning to test this and it's not happening anymore or I was mistaken in what I saw happening last night. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Ember on <span class=date_text>09-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:01 PM</span>

[Salastine]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaylena wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P></P> <P>Oddly enough, we didn't seem to have any problems with direct heals.  The warden direct healed the same time I did and both succeeded in healing the tank.  That was this morning.</P></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The situation would only arise if he was casting the same line of heal as you (quick heal vs. big heal) at the same time, and his was a teir higher.  By level 58 he should have a T6 quick-heal.  If you don't mind experimenting, have him specificly cast that T6 quick heal, then you immediately and cast your own quick-heal.  My guess is you'll get the "would not take effect" message.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> Kaylena wrote:<BR></DIV> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <P></P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>We tested what you say this morning with a level 58 Warden and me, a level 54 Templar.  The warden had no overwrite issues but I had to constantly repeat casting of Grand Intercession (Master II) and Crucial Intercession (Master I).  They didn't stack and the warden line took precedence every time.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wasn't aware of regens cancelling reactives as well, hadn't tried testing that yet.  If it's true, then it's prolly true for wards as well... which would mean a tank can only have ONE active speciatly heal at a time, a reactive OR a ward OR a regen.  Wow that would be really messed up...</DIV><p>Message Edited by Salastine on <span class=date_text>09-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:17 PM</span>

[Sinnester]

<P>Kalei,</P> <P>I was with a lvl 60 Fury when mine started happening.  I wasn't noticing it so much on reactives, mainly because we were lasting long enough for me to recast reactives.   However, I was doing direct heals and getting "will not take effect" when I casted them.   If reactives are doing it fine, but the direct heals are a big problem and shouldn't be having a problem period.   A direct heal should be a heal, no matter what level or what class.</P>