Level 70/50 Raid Necro AAs - all 3 M1 pets - Mage or Tank Pet?

[Ajil]

<DIV>I've read several threads now, and there seems to be a lot of discussion around the Tank Pet (AE immunity) vs Mage Pet (jousting) and which is better for the Raiding Necro.  It seems the consensus is that the Scout Pet is teh suk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just putting it out there to try and get a current response on this, as much of the discussion (esp. in the stickied threads) seemed a bit dated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are a Raiding Necro, what is your take on the present status of AAs and the most effective DPS set up?  I'm currently thinking that STA/WIS, combined with the Tank Pet is a solid option, since we are raiding a lot of AE-heavy mobs currently (Tarinax/Vymn/etc...).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last question:  Do you use different pets for different fights?  (i.e. Mage pet for most fights, but Tank pet for AE-heavy mobs)  If so, how do you set up your AAs for most flexibility while maintaining consistently high DPS?</DIV>

[KBern]

<P>I use different pets for different fights, and also different zones. </P> <P>HoS has so many AOE's I usually stick totally with tank pet...mage pet dies no matter where I am in those hallways.  Sometimes the DPS suffers by having to joust too much with the mage pet.</P> <P>Lyceum is almost all mage pet....</P> <P>Deathtoll and Labs I switch back and forth depending on the mob.</P> <P>It comes down to personal preference and what your most comfortable with I guess as long as your still parsing well.</P>

[IA~CHAOS]

<DIV>Personally I have the same question as OP.  Right now I rely on mage and scout, use both almost equally.  But the AE immunity would rock for some mobs. </DIV>

[Audabon]

<DIV>I mainly use my mage pet except when there are ae's that blast it i switch to the scout pet.. i can recall only 2-3 times in the last few months using my tank pet in a raid. ( when i got sick of mage pet dying i threw that up and started pulling agro so i did scout >< ) most of the time i dont have issues with my pet dying, but i have a macro for when we are raiding to express my disgust when it does die ( /shout QUIT KILLING MY @#$%ING PET!) halls of seeing come to mind, but i tend to joust my magepet most of the time there anyways i went wis int for when i dont get my pet recalled in time i can ward it from most ae's. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Romka]

STR line (for crits) and STA line (ae immune) here.Tested all other AA lines, and didnt find them usefull enough.STR line - str stat is nice if you like to carry boxes, dagger is totally useless (oh yea, use it for pulls, lol), that 1% per rank avoidance... well, if every bit counts, then its ok, otherwise its useless, crits... AGI line - totally useless (even deaggro - say, how often did you draw aggro? dunno, i can overaggro ONLY when UT expires or when main pet is dead. However, when your main pet dies, and tank didnt build enough aggro, nothing will save u but heals and FD, this 600-1000ish deaggro wont help much).STA line - sta stats ok, tank pet pbae dd... so-so, nothing special, 20% melee itercept... not bad imho, helps sometimes, then... aggro transfer to pet - 4-8%? pathetic. But the last AA in STA line is superb.WIS line - maxed heal AA is nice, also, last AA (dmg from pw pool) is nice, but mostly for soloing. +skills for pet is useless, you always can get it from group in raid, but for soloing.. do you fight orange mobs?INT line - spell dd intercept is nice (same as STA line melee intercept), all others AAs are useless. Do you really need extra 5% dps from mage pet? From this freaking wannabe melee caster? Doesnt worth it. And last AA... power preservation for mage pet. Yea, I know, he runs oop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] too fast, but only in nostop fights (like in exp grp, but scout is more preffered in exp grp), and only if u dont have pw regen in grp (in raids I always have troub in grp, and mage pet never runs oop).AE immune AA for tank pet rox. Especially in zones like HoS. Not to mention, that in my usual group this stiffled tank pet is doing 700-800 himslef (usual grp = troub, fury, necro, wiz, wiz, warl -  tank pet gets str, haste from troub (that gives him capped haste - 56 from stance, 28 from rending, 20ish from troub), str and melee dd proc from wiz, melee buff from fury (str, haste+dps proc) - in this grp stiffled tank pet is doing 700-800dps himself. Sad thing is... that I tested m1 Nightshade, in same grp, with same buffs, on same mobs, and it was doing 750-900 dps self. Kinda low difference <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Anyway... IMHO, STA line is a must for raids. <div></div>

[Winsarc11]

<P>I personally always use my scout pet, and am 90% of the time at the top of the parses.  I have str and agi lines.  Only time i ever use tank pet is when we fight Corsolander in Labs bc of the nasty dmg shield.  </P> <P>But i could see how a AE immune tank pet with the right group setup could put out alot of dmg.</P>

[Imperishab]

<P>I also use my master I scout pet with agil str line.  With this combo and healing your pet when ae goes off there is no reason that your pet should die often.  With this aa set up and scout pet there is no reason why you should'nt be first on the dps list unless it is something you personally are doing wrong.  Necro's are unique in the way that no matter what type of group you are put in for a raid you still are going to parse high on dps.  Try having yourself put in an inq group with that inq spaming <FONT color=#ee82ee size=2>Fanaticism.</FONT></P>

[Romka]

<div><blockquote><hr>Winsarc11 wrote:<div></div> <p>I personally always use my scout pet, and am 90% of the time at the top of the parses.  I have str and agi lines.  Only time i ever use tank pet is when we fight Corsolander in Labs bc of the nasty dmg shield.  </p> <p>But i could see how a AE immune tank pet with the right group setup could put out alot of dmg.</p><hr></blockquote>How good is your raid experience?Checked your profile, and found just 3 items from raids - draco gloves, draco forearms and T6 hat, same with your dirge alt. Did you raid Labs only? And btw, on corsolander its much more effective to use mage pet, coz DS is melee.</div>

[Tokam]

<P>I guess if you can convince the raid leader to put you into the CoB group or somewhere with a zerker and whatnot then the tank pet is going to do 350ish for the m1? As long as it keeps your dps over 1k then no one will be looking at you thinking *that slacker*</P> <P>I've never used the tank pet in a raid, I prefer to joust for stuff like harla or scout pet for mobs like lord V where you can avoid the AoE. Without tide I parse from 1.1 to 1.3k in zones like labs - I went 4 4 4 8 str for the crit proc and 6 7 4 4 8 wis for the heal and the pet shield thingy. My raid always puts me in the 'leftovers' group 4 - one day I will get a bard <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Jal]

Labs - Pretty much all tank due to lots of AE'sLyceum - Scout all the way very rare it diesToS - Scout for zone/trash then tank for harlaAoA x4 - Talendor - Tank due to AE immunity not spawning add's on his AEAoA x4 - Gorenaire - Tank due to AE immunity as with Gore you spawn add's when anyone dies from his AEOnly just starting HoS so not sure yet there, Gorenaire to go for DT access so cant comment on that either.

[kenji]

<P>...as a wildcard in a raid setup, i use either tank pet or mage pet...</P> <P>tank pet when group has DPS buffs for melees</P> <P>mage pet when group has mainly DPS buffs for casters....</P> <P>/grin</P>

[Pon]

I primarily use scout pet during raids except when ae damage is bad then I'll switch to my mage pet. I'll even use my scout pet on ae mobs as long as someone can call out the ae for me. having that shadowstep ability is nice when doing that since the pet gets right back into the action usually.  Only time I use my tank pet is when I am soloing or in a small group with no tank.

[Ajil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Romka wrote: <DIV>How good is your raid experience?<BR>Checked your profile, and found just 3 items from raids - draco gloves, draco forearms and T6 hat, same with your dirge alt. Did you raid Labs only? And btw, on corsolander its much more effective to use mage pet, coz DS is melee.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>For reference, the necro in question is "Rosie", Venekor.  She's hawt.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Koehianna]

What's the point of AE immunity tank pet?  I think that's the biggest waste of 8 points.  A tank pet that has a <i><b>negative DPS modifier innately and can't use any CAs.</b></i>  I'd rather spend my time recasting a DPS pet.<div></div>

[R]

I dunno AJ, yer pretty hawt yerself...erm...in a guy to guy sort of way....erm...nevermind.

[Eriol]

I almost-exclusively use mage. I don't find it a problem to keep it out of range of AEs at all, though YMMV of course. As for Jalek...<blockquote><hr>Jalek wrote:Labs - Pretty much all tank due to lots of AE's<hr></blockquote>Umm... if you keep your mage out of the mob's AEs, the AEs from your mage will do FAR more damage than your tank ever could. About the only mob where mage isn't really useable is Vyemm himself, but even then you can just summon it in after the first AE, and you'll get some time worth of actual usable DPS out of them... though tank might be something to think about to TAKE the AEs with. But besides that, mage all the way.<blockquote><hr>Jalek wrote:Lyceum - Scout all the way very rare it dies<hr></blockquote>I just did Lyceum last night purely with mage pet and I was on top of the DPS parses in at LEAST half the cases, if not more. I find that scout is just SO dependant on position to not get riposte'd that it's just not worth it most of the time, taking the time to place it correctly on each and every mob. And in Lyceum almost-all the trash are multi-mob encounters, so again, Mage all the way.<blockquote><hr>Jalek wrote:ToS - Scout for zone/trash then tank for harla<hr></blockquote>I agree with the Tank for Harla, but again, I find mage just so good... and I already said why I have an aversion to the scout pet.<blockquote><hr>Jalek wrote:AoA x4 - Talendor - Tank due to AE immunity not spawning add's on his AE<hr></blockquote>Yes Virginia, there IS a way to keep your mage out of his AE. If you can't, then ONLY use an AE-immune tank, but if you know how, your mage will out-DPS your tank by so much it's laughable. Did this on wednesday, and I was top parse because of it.<blockquote><hr>Jalek wrote:AoA x4 - Gorenaire - Tank due to AE immunity as with Gore you spawn add's when anyone dies from his AE<hr></blockquote>Ummm... Gore's AE is frontal (not 360), so if you're dying to it... /boggle. Mage pet again.<blockquote><hr>Jalek wrote:Only just starting HoS so not sure yet there<hr></blockquote>The nameds in here are very hit-n-miss. Some have nasty AEs that make mage impractical, and others are just fine blasting from afar. If the AE is too far to get out of, tank, otherwise, mage.<blockquote><hr>Jalek wrote:Gorenaire to go for DT access so cant comment on that either.<hr></blockquote>Mage through most of DT for me. I can keep it out of the really nasty AEs even from the trash (the eyeballs) so I have no problems there. Rest of the named usually don't have AEs you can't keep out of, so again, mage. Our guild hasn't taken down Tarinax yet (we'll get him this week... got him down to 40% last time), so I won't comment on him specifically.Obviously I'm a fan of the mage, and have NO problem keeping it out of AEs. But if you can't... you may need to resort to other tactics.

[kenji]

<DIV>have u try to parse your tank pet dps under a coercer or bruiser buffed its DPS mod?</DIV>

[Koehianna]

<div></div>Okay, so the tank pet has IIRC -15% DPS modifier with the offensive stance.  If I had a Bruiser in my group that's +24% to DPS which puts my pet at +9% DPS.  Whoop di doo.Correct me if my starting values are wrong.Even then, I can't see how a tank pet who is JUST on auto-attack can out-DPS a mage or scout pet.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Koehianna on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:39 PM</span>

[kenji]

<DIV>starting value is correct.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>necro has pet proc +28% haste/dps mod.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>necro has pet buff +56% haste.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>scout pet doesnt come back asap after clicking back off sometimes (delay 1~3 sec) which makes u drop out 10~15 sec per AE or cant enter fight before first AE gone. its still 1-shot by most of the boss AE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>mage pet doesnt melee wasted all haste/dps mod.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tank pet, can keep haste/dps mod proc up most of the time coz they never need to backoff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>its really depends on how your group setup.... pheonix blade, assassin poison, inquisitor dd proc, whatever proc via melee can use a tank pet ; spells proc like synergism, troubador song whatever meastro, will benefit caster pet....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>why not just use them =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Koehianna]

I guess that's the way to go if you're incapable of jousting.  <span>:smileyindifferent:</span><div></div>

[Jasuo]

Wow the necro forums have gotten pretty pathetic, used to be one of the best organized and helpful sections of the class forums. Now it seems to be all about your strats suck and I am god-like. This is why necro's are getting a bad name, it's one thing to know you're good and keep quiet performing and another thing to be outspoken about it and annoying.How's bout just offering your tips and tricks and letting people take from it what they want.<div></div>

[IA~CHAOS]

<blockquote><hr>Jasuo wrote:Wow the necro forums have gotten pretty pathetic, used to be one of the best organized and helpful sections of the class forums. Now it seems to be all about your strats suck and I am god-like. This is why necro's are getting a bad name, it's one thing to know you're good and keep quiet performing and another thing to be outspoken about it and annoying.How's bout just offering your tips and tricks and letting people take from it what they want.<div></div><hr></blockquote>What are you talking about, a few have added personal attacks but most of this forum is controlled. I am reluctant to try the tank pet yet cuz I am tempted to try agi first. <div></div>

[kenji]

<P>its not "the" way, its just "a" way to play your necro without jousting skillz</P> <P>jousting isnt hard, really. just back it off when ae caller announce AE inc in 5/10 sec...then send it back after AE passed.</P> <P>my tank pet doesnt whack weak, about 1300 normal atk with 60~100% haste / dps mod... about 800 dps with pure melee w/o any proc counted, i think, its acceptable dmg. doesnt need to joust, and u can transfer up to 10% hate into it, a 500ish AE clickie per min....</P> <P>well, bash me more pls. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Imperishab]

Again everyone is talking about jousting most encounters with ae.  I see no reason for this.  I use a master I scout pet with str agil line and have never needed to joust 90% of the ae mobs in any t7 zone with the expection of a couple mobs that just one shot my pet.  For example my pet makes it through the "eyeballs" in DT with about 5-10% hp left.  Easy fix cast your pet heal twice and he is back up to full hp before the next ae.  Using strictly scout pet other the those rare situations that call different (like Fizzle in DT) is more then worth casting two heals on your pet to put him at full hp once again.  The highest overall dps you can get out of any of our pets is through using a scout without a  doubt.  Everyone is going to have a certain way of doing things with his or her pets thats what is great about this game.

[Winsarc11]

<DIV>Heh just because i only have a few raid drops has nothing to do with how much i raid.  I personally suck at rolling =p  Almost as bad as a wizzy in my guild but thats a diff story.  I also go for max dps, which means i have no need for most of the gear on raids unless it has some sort of dmg proc or Deaggro, manaprocs arent needed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So basically i only ever roll on items which have a dmg/deaggro proc.  And im pretty sure i already have most of the ones in game, only like 5 ive heard of. (dont have the belt yet)  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which brings me to another question ill have to start a post about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But again str/agi lines work very well for me.  The self crits are a must imho no matter which other line you go.</DIV>