How to play a Coercer 101 [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

cokefre

11-21-2005, 12:37 AM

<div></div>PretextYou may know me, my name is Xelus; I am a Coercer that has been playing pretty much since the beta to this very day. My first character was not a Coercer, but an Illusionist on Permafrost server. However, about 2 weeks into the game, a real life friend started a character on Nektulos Server, he choose a brigand, a Freeportian class, so I choose a Coercer.So where does this bring me? After over a year of playing a Coercer, I have not yet once seen a change that made me truly believe I was a Coercer. In a year I have played, the Coercer class has risen from a class that was copied and pasted from the Illusionist, but left incomplete. However, with the release of the DoF expansion, I sincerely saw the Coercer class drifting away from any unique coerce ability.At the start of Everquest 2, the Coercer class was class that groups used as an inferior substitute for an Illusionist or bard. Our charm was utterly broken, our buffs were utterly inferior to that of Illusionist and bards; we had no unique advantage for months.I dinged 50 around February; much of the content was broken at that time. I saw many of my friends quit merely because the game was seriously in a stagnant state for raiders. However, I wished to see my class go on, I wish to see the game go on; memories from Everquest 1 were my drive.Live update after live update Coercers were slowly fixed and such. When Charm was finally fixed from breaking after 1 second after cast, I really saw the Coercer class taking off in the right direction, a Coercer that was able to coerce mobs to do its bidding.However, again, as time went on, charm was broken and fixed over and over again. SoE employees every so often, responded to our pleas. Many bought their posts and promises of a strong, a unique charm, I was one of them.At the release of DoF, charm, the sole defining spell of the Coercer class, hence the word coerce, was still in a half useable state. When SoE released DoF, Charm was working, mostly, however, not in the way the majority of the Coercer class stuck around, experiences, or even was promised. Charm became a bottlenecked solo spell.As a raider, I was quite disappointed in this change. Coercers are not built to be solo classes, the few Coercers that do solo, solo because they cannot get a group. Coercers are enchanters; enchanters are group utility, not solo; Enchanters excel not in solo, but solo. Why they made charm a bottlenecked solo spell? I can only think of one conclusion. They have given up.Obliviously most Coercers do not want to solo; they either participate in raids or groups; charm, the class defining ability of Coercers, a solo spell? Many of us still giggle what the Coercer Dev is smoking. The way I see it, and how many of us see it, is that the developers has completely given up on charm. They continuously expand it in the solo sphere, content that a small minority play or want to play in. Charm is a very difficult spell to balance, if you have played Everquest 1, you know what I mean. By sticking charm into solo only, developers will never have to balance this spell in raids in groups. They will never have to see Coercer excel in coercing; never deal with accomplishments that leave others in awe. Coercers are bottlenecked, and will remain bottlenecked.I end this pretext with a charm suggestion I have posted and suggested many times. This will probably be the last constructive post I will make due to the fact I have been banned after nearly a year of politely waiting and providing constructive threads and suggestions to the Coercer community. So instead of saying f-u SoE, I am ending this with a big thank you SoE; thank you for finally opening my blind eyes to the truth, thank you for saving my time from making anymore constructive threads, because obliviously, we are all whining kids despite the pages and pages of brilliant statistics, suggestions, and exponential trials, the coercer community has provided.Charm (Coerce (20), Beguile (33), Dominate (47))Casting time: Charm, for a spell with a random duration and low effectiveness, 6 seconds is a huge casting time. It’s very annoying to see your charm land and break in the next few seconds considering there is no risk vs. reward.Effectiveness: Charm is not very effective at all. There is simply no risk vs. reward; in fact, taking more risk is usually a penalty. How charm works right now bottlenecks any charmed mob. For example, if I charm a heroic +++ mob, it is scaled down to a no arrow mob. It’s usually more effective to charm caster types of mobs since their DPS output is usually higher than charming a melee class of mobs. Charm also requires the use of 3 concentration slots. 3 Concentration slots are affordable when soloing, but is huge when in group or raid, considering we are a utility class, on theory.Bugs/Issues:1) If you charm a mob and it dies, the previously charmed mob is restored in an unattackable state at 100% hit points/ power, but despawns afterwards. Sometimes the previously charmed mob does not respawn.2) Charm uses one of your encounter limits. I believe the encounter limit is 5 so if you use charm, your encounter limit is now 4. I’ve also heard issues of charm permanently taking an encounter slot, even when charm is not in effect, but is fixed once you camp out.3) Charm sometimes/always? Trivializes the encounters. For example, there’s a +++ named and 3 no arrow adds, if you charm one of the adds to assist in killing the +++, consider the encounter trivialized, sometimes even no quest credit. (When I say trivialized, I mean your chances of getting a metal chest are significantly lower or nonexistent).4) You are unable to use charm in duels/arena, charm on other players and using it on mobs before hand to have a pet during the duel.5) Necromancers and bards also get a charm (with certain restrictions) that only cost 1 concentration slot to cast.Summary:- Charm in solo has its uses, though unreliable and risky, it’s somewhat useful (so long as you charm non-heroic mobs). - Charm in groups is usually not effective. Most of the things groups will be fighting are heroic type encounters and the only things to charm are heroic type encounters. However, charming a heroic encounter and using it usually decreases the productivity of the group. Charm adds additional risk to the group because if it breaks during a heroic encounter, you now have another heroic encounter to worry about (usually the mob goes directly for the Coercer or healers and we don’t have many hit points). Also, usually, using charm in a group takes away from the group because of the 3 concentration slots require when using charm. Theses 3 concentration slots could go to casting DPS buffs on scouts/pets or an aggro buff onto the tank. It’s simply not effective in a group.- Charm in raids is not effective. Most epic encounters, charm cannot even be used. Charm is basically our class defining spell; it’s ridiculous that our “most powerful” spell is useless on raid encounters.Solution: Charm in Everquest 1 was powerful and provided a good risk vs. reward ratio. However, this isn’t Everquest 1. I don’t think you should be able to charm epic named mobs, but I do believe we should be able to charm epic adds with some type of restriction.This is just in my opinion, but charm should be a fixed duration with a long recast with the mob scaling based on the intelligence of the Coercer. For example, I charm a +++ heroic mob, the mob is charmed for a fixed duration of X amount and scales based on your intelligence. It could do a decent amount of damage with respect to the amount of intelligence the Coercer has, but it isn’t bottlenecked to useless as it is right now. If this is actually implementable on the Everquest 2 engine is beyond me.[Disclaimer, this post was made a few patches ago, I apologize for any inconstancies it may have]How to play a Coercer 101A Coercer is a subdivision of the enchanter class. Dictionary.com defines a coercer as one who coerces: “To force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel.” However, this label, Coercer, should not be assumed that you will be able to do the stated above. Coercers are merely a lower form of group utility and damage dealers.In order to play a Coercer, you must be ready to be absolutely ready to be substitute for a superior class. You have to be ready to see constant “Target is too Powerful,” and constant “Target has resisted your suggestion,” because nearly half of your spells, if you ever expect to raid, will be bottlenecked or unusable.Coercer’s UtilityCoercers have a small variety of buffs, but the few we do, can found better elsewhere.Power of Suggestion (21), Exhortation (35), Instigation (49)Spell Information: Augmentation that grants power, mental, magic, and divine resists.Issue: For the “masters of the mind” certain Cleric resists buffs grants more mental resists. I’m not entirely sure why, but I believe they are on the 4th upgrade of the spell while we are on the 3rd.Signet of Insight (26), Signet of Realization (40), Signet of Reason (54)Spell Information: “A group augmentation that increases the intelligence and agility of the coercer’s group.”Issues: This spell used to significantly increase the group’s power pool and the intelligence and agility buff would be an addition to Power of Suggestion (21), Exhortation (35), Instigation (49). The loss of the power buff cause many coercers to be furious and even quit. My main problem against this chance is that the Signet of Reason (54) was a master 2 selection for a buff. Because SoE changed the spell after many people made their choices, it is highly unfair. Either change the spell back to the power buff, or give another respect, because many coercers choose the Signet of Reason (54) as their master 2 because of the additional.Recklessness (20, Bravado (34), Velocity (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Spell Information: Increases the combat attack damage of target allyThis is perhaps the only real unique spell we get. To my knowledge, no other class can buff combat attack damage better than Coercers. Sure, it may be considered uniqueness, but will groups and raids give up damage procs, str buffs, etc, for this? Most cases, no.Empathic Link (35), Synergetic Link (49)Spell Information: “An augmentation placed on the coercer's ally that grants them a chance at dealing mental damage to anyone that damages that ally through a spell. This spell does not require any concentration, but can only be maintained on a single ally”Issues: The damage output on this spell is ridiculously low: Synergetic Link (49) Master 1 procs at mid 200s to low 300s. In my opinion, getting nuked for high damages you want to avoid, and sending 200-300 damage back to the target, is ridiculously. Either turn it into a real anti-spell proc or turn it into an auto attack damage shield.Smirking Demeanor (24), Annoying Demeanor (3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, Enraging Demeanor (52)Spell Information: “An augmentation cast on an ally that causes them to generate additional hate towards any enemies they attack.”Issues: I know this spell does increase hate in some way, but how it increases hate, the spell is very vague. Does it increase the hate on taunts? Does it increase hate only on auto attack damages? Or does it increase hate on combat arts? Please be more specific than just saying “increase additional hate.”-This spell can only be cast on group members. Group wise this is no big deal, provides excellent additional hate to the tank. However, raid wise, this spell is useless in most cases. Coercers do not provide any sort of unique mitigation other than resists that’s rarely useful (also Clerics give higher) and an agility buff. Although we do provide the best power regeneration in the game, we do not provide enough benefits to the tank that could replace a priest, off tank, or bard.As you can see, our group utility is very limited, especially when you compare it to a bard, our group utility superiors. So do not choose to play a Coercer if you wish to excel in utility over any other class.Also would like to add, our “emergency group spells.” Channel and Mana cloak.Channel is a spell that sums up the entire group’s power and then distributes it out evenly at the cost of 100 (or so) power / group member at adept 3. Not exactly the best spell to be using, but it can be handy.Mana cloak is an excellent spell when tons of mobs are hitting your tank. It is a spell that grants power when your tank gets hit, at a 30% chance to proc. It is very situational, such like Channel.I still do not see theses two spells fitting for the definition of a Coercer. Do we dominate any minds? No.Damage Dealing (DPS)Coercers are not exactly the best DPS. Moorgard stated a while ago that Coercers are tier 3 dps, Assassins, Rangers, Warlock, Wizards, Summoners, etc are better. We have a strange variety of spells to dish out damage with; however, many of them are either extremely low in output, or requires unusual circumstances.Our direct damage nukes, Stroke, and Ego burst, are adequate in damage and a degree in utility. Stroke interrupts the target, with a fast recast time / cast time, and Ego Burst roots the target, though it breaks far to often.Our AE direct nuke is a joke.Simple Minds (22), Discomfirting Gaze (36), Demoralizing Gaze (50)Spell Information: “Deals mental damage over time and drains power of target enemy and surrounding encounter members.”Issues: - The damage on this spell is quite small and the tier upgrades does not scale very well.- The power drain on the spell is useless. Solo encounters go by too fast to even notice the power drain, same goes for heroics. On epic encounters, you cannot even drain power because of their massive power regeneration.Now, our unusual proc spell dps. Spellwhip, Magus, and Tyrannical Mind line of spells.Spell Lash (40), Spell Whip (54)Spell Information: “An impairment that deals mental damage to the target whenever they cast a hostile spell for up to 3 spells if the target dies while under the effect of this impairment, a thoughtstone is granted to the coercer.”Issues: The spell, unlike the Tyrannical Mind line of spells, actually procs often. Because this spell procs on a spell cast not power consumption, it produces a decent amount of damage. However, much like many other broken spells that proc, it has the ability to proc multiple times at once.Sibyllant (23), Haruspex (37), Magus (51)This spell now has a 100% chance to proc x amount of damage upon a melee attack for 3 procs. It dishes out fairly decent dps with the low recast timer.Despotic Mind (2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, Tyrannical Mind (47), Destructive Mind (56)Spell Information: “An impairment that causes the target mental damage for every point of power they spend. Upgrades to this spell improve the ratio of power spent to mental damage dealt. If the target dies while under the effect of this impairment, a thoughtstone is granted to the coercer.”Issues: There has been much speculation with this spell, yes it did used to do 60k because of a defiler debuff, but it has been fixed to my knowledge (not many defilers on Nektulos server to be testing with). As of right now, this spell is ineffective. The damage output on the spell is ridiculous. I normally see it proc once or twice on a heroic encounter for 200-300 damage and once in a while 500-1000. Also the spell requires power to maintain during its duration. I suggest not even using this spell in most cases, better to save power for more valuable spells.Did I mention… they nerfed this spell recently to do even less dps?In summary, our damage output is third tier. We easily get out dps by tier 1-2 dps in most encounters. There are certain AE encounters that will proc Spellwhip and Magus to high damage states, but still cannot match a decent tier 1 dps player.In order for us to do damage, your tank must take damage. I don’t know about you, but I’m not seeing any slight coercing in this.Fun spellsFun fun fun…. Even our fun spells are highly bottlenecked. Our fun spells Coerces group members to dance, bow, etc. However, in order for theses spells to even land, your target must be lower level, if your target is higher or equal in level; you will get a “target has resisted your suggestion” message. At level cap, this spell is not very fun. I am unable to coerce anyone to do anything.Stuns/Crowd ControlStun and crowd control are spells enchanters get plenty of. In groups and solo, we can stun mobs at insane rates. However, in a raid, Coercers no longer excel in stunning. We have zero stuns and crowd control that lands on epics. Nearly half of all our spells are under this category. So if you ever plan on raiding, be ready to get “Target is too powerful” message non stop on epics, because guess what, you can not mesmerize, or stun epics…. At least none of ours work.StiflesStifle is the ability to prevent the target from casting spells. Coercers have 1 stifle line.Withering Silence (30), Agonizing Silence (44), Harrowing Silence (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Spell Information: “Stifles and drains power over time from the coercer's target. The stifle effectiveness is reduced on epic targets.”Issues: The spell effect description says it does not work on epics, however the description says otherwise.-In groups this stifle is very powerful; however, in a raid this spell is absolutely useless. Since epics cannot be stifled, only the power drain portion of the spell takes effect. However, many months ago, SoE made most epic encounters, un-drainable in power. So there is absolutely no point in casting this spell on epic targets.Again, if you are ever planning on raiding, don’t bother with this spell. As a one humorous enchanter said recently, “You best illusion is power drain. Try to use it. While it looks like you are doing something, it's just an illusion.”In conclusion, Coercers are not really Coercers, but something much different. We have no coercing abilities in grouping and raids, content which the majority of the Coercer community experiences. Sure, we rock in groups, the ability to keep a mob stifled/ stunned the entire fight is insane. However, we can do none of this in raids. Coercers (and probability illusionist as well) are no longer enchanters in a raid sense. We can not enchant group members better than bards; we can not enchant mobs at all. Enchanters are the masters of auto-follow; we are not the masters of the mind.WTB Auto-Follow (Master 1) paying well. Enchanters do not enchant, we merely provide the illusion as if we do.<div></div>

cokefre

11-21-2005, 12:53 AM

Also would like to add: BG recently said: We do have a Coercer on the team. In fact, he's a level 60 Coercer who plays on the same server as me (though in a more hardcore guild). I also have a newbie Enchanter alt, although I'm not yet done with my Coercer class quest. We do care about Enchanters just as much as any other class and I bring up your concerns at least weekly. However, making sarcastic threads and (so I hear, though I didn't see it myself) threads that attack the development team are the exact opposite of a good way to be heard. If a particular person makes us resent them, we aren't going to read what they have to say in the first place. That's not saying we don't listen to the concerns of Enchanters, but it is saying we do not listen to the concerns of someone who obviously lacks any respect for the development team or the rest of the player community. If you start a post with "screw you SOE" or anything nearly as abrasive, we don't read your post. If this is true, I ask him to show himself, come talk to us, go to actual raid. Tell me, if he's in a raiding guild, what exactly does he provide to his raid? Can he confidantly say that he is useful? In what way? How? Does he actually do any real "coercing"? Tell him that. And you say that I obivious lack any respect for the development team. Though I may hold much anger towards them right now, was I wrong in any of my comments? all of the things I said were real experiences, real bugs, real problems, real frustrations that were put off for over a year. I have posted countless constructive posts in hopes of making this game better for Coercers. I can see I have wasted my time. So to all the Coercers out there, ProphecyCT (aka Xelus) has been banned from the forums, you may find me in the nektulos.coercer channel. You also can read half of what I posted on the SoE forums on the my guild forums. <div></div>

smile

11-21-2005, 12:54 AM

Too bad most people at SOE are a bunch of half [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] monkeys, otherwise this post might help them understand how crappy our class is. It seems the 50000 threads in the spells and combat forums about how crappy coercers are didn't get through to them. <div></div>

smile

11-21-2005, 12:57 AM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>cokefreak wrote:Also would like to add: BG recently said: We do have a Coercer on the team. In fact, he's a level 60 Coercer who plays on the same server as me (though in a more hardcore guild). <hr></blockquote>By hardcore he must mean hardcore into group questing. Either that or they have one of those test monkeys playing it, cause the dumb [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] of a dev that is playing a coercer sure as hell isn't getting anything done but making the class worse. I'm sure they will lock or edit this so as to keep as many people from reading it as possible.<div></div>Message Edited by smiley1 on 11-20-2005 12:01 PM

Phahku2

11-21-2005, 01:22 AM

i'm done trying to get us fixed, xel. the more we post, the worse it gets. i will only be posting pithy replies, for the most part. excpet for totally ignorant posts like BG telling us how LU13 made our stuns and stifles uber when it actually nerfed them, those are worthy of a reply...but apprently not the kind of reply we supplied. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

Krelfeari

11-21-2005, 02:09 AM

to quote myself, THIS IS INSANE! A perfectly good post about our class, and many others made over the recent months yet when no action is taken so we get upset we just get told to stop posting or we get banned or we get responses saying they won't read posts by us if they resent us. I too wanna meet this 60 coercer thats in a "hardcore" guild. How does he mean hardcore? Like [Removed for Content]? Cause I know he doesnt mean raids.