Coercer Balance discussion - Solution on balancing charm (Updated 9/14 2pmPST) [Archive]

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Zerv

09-14-2005, 09:16 PM

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>My character - 33 Coercer all adepts Balance summary: Mostly positive because our class is becoming more unique and improved imo... a little - however charm our class defining skill is not worth risk/reward ie inefficient - we are not balanced !!!!!! Also serious bug right now is Illusionists can use their charm they get from 10 - 20 on 50+ mobs making our charm only differing in duration and breaking risk !!!!!!! !!!!!! Also serious bug right now Illusionists get dominate also as it is marked Enchanter not Coercer !!!!!! Negatives: Stun line needs improvement, need a quick stun short duration - stuns are to short for cast time Stilfe is near pointless as mobs don't use specials as much or cast spells No more Stilfe Chaining Nukes greatly reduced however replaced with more utility spells Mezes (non aoe) reduced duration Sybillant line - very iffy seems very erratic, duration way to short Charm - not worth risk/reward by a significant margin, rooting/mezzing much better imo (see below idea) Charm - 3 concentration slots to much Charm - inefficient way to solo Large nerf in Int buffs - hense decrease in some damages Inefficiency seems to have increased on taking down mobs over time Positives: New Debuff line (very nice) AoE mez - yummy Haste/DPS boost (imo very nice) Refresh (very nice would rather have the concentration them greater regen and having to cast non stop) Roots - Much much better as well as ego strikes Charm - at least we got something unique Charm Balancing Idea discussion The durations don't mean squat charming non stop last night 2 - 3 down arrow blues with beguile at lvl 33 using Adept I beguile - did charming for about 4 hours straight in bloodline chronicles, all mobs were mostly blue double or triple down arrows which should be fairly easy charms 80% or more of the time charm was being broken in under 3 minutes on double or triple down arrow blues - no point whatsoever for a 10min charm. They SERIOUSLY need to reduce the break risk - it isn't worth the risk right now, rooting is much more reliable. My idea taking beguile for example (these times could be variable on spell lvl also or increase overall duration)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spell lvl I - III (ie adept I - adept III) - resists adjustments + less concentration slot --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Apprentice I Beguile (3 concentration slots) on greens: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on blues: 7.5 min charm, rest 3 min chance to break (normal initial resist) on whites: 5 min charm, rest 5 min chance to break (high initial resist) on yellows: 3 min charm, rest 7 min chance to break (extreme high initial resist) on orange: chance to break entire duration (extreme high initial resist) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adept I Beguile (3 concentration slots) (Adept 3 - 2 concentration slots) on greens: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on blues: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on whites: 7.5 min charm, rest 2.5 min chance to break (normal initial resist) on yellows: 4 min charm, rest 6 min chance to break (high initial resist) on orange: 1 min charm, rest 9 min chance to break (extreme high initial resist) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Master I Beguile (2 concentration slots) on greens: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on blues: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on whites: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on yellows: 5 min charm, rest 5 min chance to break (normal initial resist) on orange: 2 min charm, rest 8 min chance to break (high initial resist) On cast icon is red indicating -> no break duration time <- as soon as it able to get resisted it goes back to normal color EJdev did a horrible balancing act on charm, and rumored to even going to be increasing break - so sad - it's currently just not work risk/reward - makes me wonder if he played a coercer at all Coercers need this charm to be balanced because of our nerf to our dps nukes imo - or need some type of statie pet like Illusionists <div></div> Message Edited by Zervun on 09-14-2005 02:20 PM

Chog

09-14-2005, 09:28 PM

<DIV>Charm is make-or-break for coercer soloing. Charm aside, we got worse as soloers (I wouldn't have thought that was possible). I haven't had a chance to test it out yet. I was having an Adept III Beguile made last night, and I didn't bother to try charming at app1. I'll have a better feel for it tonight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One important thing about soloing that people often don't take into account is soloing efficiency. I could always solo solitary heroic mobs. The fights just took 10 minutes. If you look at soloing efficiency (XPs/time), I was far better off whacking low greens.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Charm, the way it works now, is pretty inefficient. I would think, in general, every time charm breaks or your charmed pet dies, you have to spend at least a couple minutes finding a new mob to charm, charming it, and then running back to a safe place to fight. If this process takes 2 minutes, and the average duration of charm is 6 minutes, that would be 25% additional down time (as in no XPs earned), in addition to whatever down time you normally have between fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is the inefficiency of charm that concerns me as much as the risk/reward. I might be able to lower risk by getting a powerful enough version spell. But there's not much I can do about the inefficiency.</DIV>

Zerv

09-14-2005, 09:41 PM

Updated charm idea <div></div>

ProphecyCT

09-14-2005, 11:57 PM

The entire charm spell right now is horrible. 3 Concentration slots... yeah... that's one of their biggest mistakes there, the devs cannot make up their minds on how they want to balance charm. They add 3 concentration slots, but yet, wants Coercers to use their charm for long durations in grouping and soloing as a source of dps. Charm duration.. is horrible, a recurring 30 seconds for a charm pet that gets scaled down making it pointless to charm stronger mobs, i.e. heroic mobs, aside from higher level mobs. A recurring timer + 3 concentration slots, shows that the developers has still not yet made up their minds for charm. There is simply not reason for charm to take up 3 concentration slots, bottleneck charm, and add the high risk factor of it breaking every 30 seconds or so. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, they need to add a level restriction on charm, at least to prevent Illusionist from using it, and also, change Dominate so Illusionist cannot scribe it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note, most illusionist I've spoken to, knows about this charm issue and how they can use it, but however, they would rather use their own pet and save concentration for buffs.</DIV>

Correus

09-15-2005, 12:32 AM

<div></div>Yeah, Charm duration is a mess. As a level 39 coercer with Adept 1 Beguile, I was charming a level 34 grizzly in EL, and it would last anywhere from 30 seconds to max of about 7 min. I charmed a lvl 37 spider in EL and it wouldn't stay charmed for more than 3 min. I wouldn't even mind the 3 concentration slot use if charm were reliable. As it is, I *might use it in a group of people I know and who are willing to put up with the annoyance of me having to deal with my pet every 30 seconds - 8 min. But even then I don't want them to have to be inconvenienced because charm broke again. I thought this was the reason they were making charm a longer duration spell--so it would actually be useable in a group or as a soloer. And I'm not even trying to charm mobs at or above my level! Edit: Also, I think the OP's idea for charm balancing is perfect. I would love charm if it were implemented in that way. For people who may want/enjoy a little risk, they can try charming higher lvl mobs, and those who actually want a pet to last the full 10 min could find one. I guess I won;t get my hopes up, but I think the OP's ideas would be perfect. <div></div>Message Edited by Correus on 09-14-2005 01:54 PM

AdiX__Styxx__

09-15-2005, 12:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zervun wrote: My character - 33 Coercer all adepts Balance summary: Mostly positive because our class is becoming more unique and improved imo... a little - however charm our class defining skill is not worth risk/reward ie inefficient - we are not balanced !!!!!! Also serious bug right now is Illusionists can use their charm they get from 10 - 20 on 50+ mobs making our charm only differing in duration and breaking risk !!!!!!! Negatives: Stun line needs improvement, need a quick stun short duration - stuns are to short for cast time Stilfe is near pointless as mobs don't use specials as much or cast spells Nukes greatly reduced however replaced with more utility spells Mezes (non aoe) reduced duration Sybillant line - very iffy seems very erratic, duration way to short Charm - not worth risk/reward by a significant margin, rooting/mezzing much better imo (see below idea) Large nerf in Int buffs - hense decrease in some damages Inefficiency seems to have increased on taking down mobs over time Positives: New Debuff line (very nice) AoE mez - yummy Haste/DPS boost (imo very nice) Refresh (very nice would rather have the concentration them greater regen and having to cast non stop) Roots - Much much better as well as ego strikes Charm - at least we got something unique Charm Balancing Idea discussion The durations don't mean squat charming non stop last night 2 - 3 down arrow blues with beguile at lvl 33 using Adept I beguile - did charming for about 4 hours straight in bloodline chronicles, all mobs were mostly blue double or triple down arrows which should be fairly easy charms 80% or more of the time charm was being broken in under 3 minutes on double or triple down arrow blues - no point whatsoever for a 10min charm. They SERIOUSLY need to reduce the break risk - it isn't worth the risk right now, rooting is much more reliable. My idea taking beguile for example (these times could be variable on spell lvl also or increase overall duration) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Apprentive I Beguile on greens: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on blues: 7.5 min charm, rest 3 min chance to break (normal initial resist) on whites: 5 min charm, rest 5 min chance to break (high initial resist) on yellows: 3 min charm, rest 7 min chance to break (extreme high initial resist) on orange: chance to break entire duration (extreme high initial resist) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adept I Beguile on greens: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on blues: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on whites: 7.5 min charm, rest 2.5 min chance to break (normal initial resist) on yellows: 4 min charm, rest 6 min chance to break (high initial resist) on orange: 1 min charm, rest 9 min chance to break (extreme high initial resist) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Master I Beguile on greens: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on blues: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on whites: Full duration of charm (low initial resist) on yellows: 5 min charm, rest 5 min chance to break (normal initial resist) on orange: 2 min charm, rest 8 min chance to break (high initial resist) On cast icon is red indicating -> no break duration time <- as soon as it able to get resisted it goes back to normal color EJdev did a horrible balancing act on charm, and rumored to even going to be increasing break - so sad - it's currently just not work risk/reward - makes me wonder if he played a coercer at all Coercers need this charm to be balanced because of our nerf to our dps nukes imo Message Edited by Zervun on 09-14-2005 10:40 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> No possible way i can add something to this i totally agree with ya here! great post!

Zerv

09-15-2005, 01:21 AM

If you have comments/suggestions - I will keep updating the original post with more information <div></div>