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View Full Version : Dystrax's fake screenshots?


Hurdoc
07-18-2005, 09:46 PM
<DIV>I currently play a Bruiser but wanted to play a caster class, so cruised on over to this forum. Those screenshots that Dystrax posted of spells 1-50 are some sort of sick joke? I am being a little facetious in this post but those numbers are not real, are they? For example, at level 46.8, to be able to drain 44 power and replenish 11 power to your party is abysmally low. I understand that Coercers have a reputation for being low on the DPS scale but I was not expecting this. Sorry, just a little shocked. Being that crowd control in this game is nonessential, hmm, may have to become a Wizard. :smileysad: I was hoping to be a little different than everyone else.</DIV>

ProphecyCT
07-18-2005, 09:50 PM
<P>^_^</P> <P>They seem real to me.</P>

Dystr
07-18-2005, 10:00 PM
They are real. keep in mind that i have not upgraded devouring thoughts past app1 because it sucks.  it got nerfed all to hell a couple months ago.  it would be [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] to spend 10s on an AD1 of this spell, let alone put a ruby towards it. notice that at lvl 40 we can choose besklors mind gorge, the training up grade to consuming thoughts (the lower level devouring thoughts).  this spell kicks [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], its a huge group power tap, and it makes devouring thoughts completely pointless.  <div></div>

Tanatus
07-18-2005, 10:54 PM
<DIV>Let me explain something about devouring toughts</DIV> <DIV>I have it at Master 1 - before nerf it was decent spell that was slightly outperforming Belkor Mind Gorge in terms of returning mana to group and somethat outperforming BMG in terms of draining of mana ....</DIV> <DIV>Now after all nerfs and upgrades its different and serve totally different purpose compare to BMG altouth they share same timer..</DIV> <DIV>BMG - 55power/4.8s for a 5 tic +67 upon impact - that's a gain that group get .... and about as much is drained from mob...</DIV> <DIV>Devouring Toughts Master 1 - 18power/4.8s +21 upon impact ... suck? yes you can say unless you look on second part ....</DIV> <DIV>it drain now 82power/4.8s +87 or so upon impact. So to speak Devouring tought at master lvl capable of draining about 600-800 power from mob every 45s. Its may be not the fastest power vacum in game but FAR from worst</DIV>

Dystr
07-18-2005, 11:06 PM
at the same time, IMHO, our ability to give power to our group is far more important than our ability to drain mobs at a slightly higher rate. this is why i havent upgraded devouring thoughts. of course, this may all change in the revamp/expansion.  but who knows? <div></div>

Hurdoc
07-18-2005, 11:34 PM
<P>Food for thought, yes, but I was only using Devouring Thoughst as an example. The entire spell list is so vastly underpowered that I:</P> <P>a) understand why sometimes I only see 2 Coercers on the ENTIRE server</P> <P>b) don't understand what Sony was thinking. I understand that mistakes can be made and miscalculations occur in any process, be it game making, cooking, building a house, waging a war, but I'm not even sure what this spell line reeks of.</P> <P>I don't mind playing a challenging class, in fact that's why my Bruiser is boring, it's just that I don't want to play a useless one. Sorry, I don't mean to insult all you Coercers out there. Just hoping someone can give me a reason to play one (and I know there are a bunch of threads like that out there), because IN CONCEPT it sounds like a class I would enjoy.</P><p>Message Edited by Hurdoc on <span class=date_text>07-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:53 PM</span>

Dystr
07-19-2005, 12:49 AM
<div></div>well, despite what some coercers may say, we are far from a worthless class.  what we lack is DPS. as a bruiser i am sure thats a hard thing to stomach, heh.  power regen is enormously useful, despite what tanatus or orki says.  we can also chain stifle mobs, preventing them ever from using spells and combat arts.  in a group, stifling is without a doubt the most important thing we do. playing a coercer well is not about doing massive damage - since we dont do much damage at all.  playing a coercer well is largely about preventing mobs from damaging your gruop in the first place.  this is accomplished through mezzing, stunning, stifling, interupting and the like.  it is certainly a challenging class.  i played a wizard almost to 30 and i just got sick of debuff, nuke, repeat.  as a coercer i am constantly casting all kinds of spells on all kinds of mobs and groupmates alike. coercers make bad groups good, good groups great, and great groups unstoppable.  i have an enormous amount of fun playing my coercer. unless i am the only chanter for the froglok raid.....that sucks more than anything.... <div></div><p>Message Edited by Dystrax on <span class=date_text>07-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:50 PM</span>

Gilbert
07-19-2005, 12:51 AM
<P>Here's a reason:</P> <P>I went with a group to do the group arena in Splitpaw: me (50 Coercer), 50 Illusionist, 50 Monk, and a 50 swashbuckler.</P> <P>On the boss mob the Illusionist, Monk and Swashbuckler all die.  I mez the mob at 65% hit points and proceed to solo it.</P> <P>Needless to say the rest of the group was quite amazed when I killed the boss mob and finished the instance.</P> <P>I have screenshots if you need them.</P> <P>Gilbertus - 50 Coercer of Monolith</P>

Dystr
07-19-2005, 01:35 AM
woot!  now that rocks! <div></div>

Hurdoc
07-19-2005, 02:24 AM
<DIV>Umm, how is that even possible? Not that I question your veracity, but as soon as you hit him, mez breaks, and then he kills you. How does that work?</DIV>

CappyFu
07-19-2005, 02:37 AM
Hehe again take a look at our sucky spell lists. I solo many yellow ^^'s pretty easily. If you are creative you can figure out a way to link some spells together to kill a mob untouched. As many others say, you may need some reasonable intelligence to play a coercer. I wonder what kind of DPS we will do after Combat revamp. We are supposed to be 2nd teir DPS!

Hurdoc
07-19-2005, 03:05 AM
Third tier, along with us Bruisers... :smileywink:

Tanatus
07-19-2005, 11:24 AM
<DIV>Let me explain why coercer debuffing part so sucks...</DIV> <DIV>3 warlock were able nearly solo Drayek for leghtly period of time .... try this with 3 coercer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />... If we would have 4 warlock we could probably do it (not counting adds of course). Key is Dark Nebula - final and ultimate form of CC on epic encounters. In 2 words? - it stun epics 4.5s duration 12s recast - no brain like ye'old good EQ1 Cheal Rot here you can do Stun Lock Rot. YES you have to deal with scriped events YES you still can be [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ed up by inborn abilities but .... if you have enouth warlocks you disable nearly every mob in game - NO WAY you can come with something like that as a coercer...</DIV> <DIV>Yes rude nerf of power regeneration items FORCED guilds BOT chanters for crack - but thats' not a way to make play enchanter fun really</DIV> <DIV>As it stand now coercer make bad group playable, good group .... well do nothing in good groups, great group? well coercer will screw great group like no other class making Great group barely Good</DIV> <DIV>I give ONE thing to coercer - he STILL good at crowed control - much better then illusionist... Combination of mez, AE mez, long duration stun, uninteruptable stun, AE stun allow single coercer relaible control of 3 mob and in ping-pong mode 4-5 mob.</DIV> <DIV>Major problem with coercer that playing class is BORING like hell and PAINFULL for wrist. To understand what I mean try sustein crack for 24 ppl during 5-6 hours raid in Spirits of Lost. 99% of coercer spell dont work on epic mobs hence it leave as crack bot and your main objective is stay alive</DIV> <DIV>Buttom line if you take good group and replace coercer with ANY class group start perform better thats is a problem</DIV>

Dystr
07-19-2005, 11:31 AM
blah blah my warlock is uber blah blah... <div></div>

Puggpaw
07-19-2005, 09:05 PM
<DIV>Groups with various varieties of dps, tankage and buffers each have their own techniques to play. To keep focusing on how you can do things with warlocks better than coercers does not help in this forum. They are different classes...and I am getting rather tired of hearing how we suck..which we DONT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is a playstyle you either like, or not. Yes, there are ways to improve this class...I have my own wishes. But we can really solo well, albeit a bit slow, if you know how to play. I am a great benefit to groups I play with, especially if we are missing a key player...ie, tank , dps, or too low on healing power.  We are more than buff bots.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bottom line, play this class. If you like it, fine, if not, choose another. Sometimes it's best to form your own opinion. I've read these forums for months, and it's always been a few loud, negative people that seem to bring it down. I enjoy my coercer, and sometimes I'll play somehting different for variety.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my 2 cents...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zuluwitch Boogerkiller</DIV> <DIV>40 coercer (at time of this posting)</DIV> <DIV>Najena</DIV>

ProteusTielaxi
07-20-2005, 01:50 AM
<DIV>Ah yes....THAT method.</DIV> <DIV>What Gilbertus is not tell you however, is that it probably took 15 minutes+ to finish him off, and requires excellent timing, and a lag free connection.</DIV> <DIV>But yes, it can be done (I've done it myself!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Gilbert
07-20-2005, 07:01 PM
<DIV>A lag spike free connection is all you really need and plenty of time is the most important part.  It probably took me 15 minutes to finish him off but that was better then dying and losing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could have done it faster but I preferred the safe no getting hit method over the semi-safe possibility of getting stunned and destroyed method.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Besides I wanted to show off for my guildies,not get killed trying to show off.  lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gilbertus - 50 OGRE Coercer</DIV> <DIV>Monolith</DIV>

AdiX__Styxx__
07-21-2005, 07:49 AM
<P>he he yeah its doable i done the entire instance solo only had a bit of trouble wiht tha murk cause of tha healing i forgot all about that! was still great fun took me about 1 hour and 20 min to complete the whole thing on hardest and am at lvl 44 now but then at 43.</P> <P>Oh and tanatus i know ya love yer warlock and all but yer not helping man i know ya have a 50 coercer and i do know that in tha past ya tried to help the class to get fixes, you gave up on it thast fine then plz let our coercer brothers who havent be in peace and fend for themselves!</P> <P>I do agree on being only chanter on froggy raid stinks tho breezing 24 peeps constantly sucks then get a LD from a healer or two and timers up agian [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] gotta redo it but i do have a trick to speed things up!!!!!</P> <P>ALL you chanters out there who been solo chanter on a 24 peep raid listen up! </P> <P>AT lvl 30 ya get a training breeze which does not stack with clarity but it does last 25 min for a regen of 33 if my memory is correct definately pick this training skill! it wil save ya lotsa a grief if ya listen closely!</P> <P>Ok here goes: At 46.6 ya get clarity which regens for 60 per click this is a lot more then the 33 per clickon the training breeze i must agree BUT THEY ARE ON DIFFERENT TIMERS! So use the clarity one on all healers and MT first! while yer wiating for the 15 secs to go by use the 25 min breeze on all the DPS classes so ya can start killing stuff faster and when ya see a DPS class dropping below 3 bubs of power give him clarity to give him 60 regen per click (THEY DO NOT STACK WANNA MAKE TAT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR!). </P> <P>So raid leaders do not need to wiat for what is it 6 minutes or so to breeze a group of 24? it wioll be like 3 min for 24 peeps to get them all breezed so the fight can start and you breeze when needed meanwhile ya do yer dots stuns if possible etc and have yer fun. </P> <P>Especially with the new changes they made ya can see who has which breeze this will help loads! Breezin 24 peeps will always suck but stacking HP buffs as a guardian and waiting till the chanter is ready sucks too! But then again its only raids which will benefit yer entire guidl if succesfull so bite down on it!</P> <P>Hope this helps</P> <P>PS: those 15 min are gonna be cut down to 5 min if we get a good DPS upgrade hope they dont do it to our dots but to our DD's so i can still easily solo orange named mobs (heroic ones ) yes......</P>

Tanatus
07-21-2005, 10:42 AM
<DIV>Hint:</DIV> <DIV>Clarity do NOT give you 60 power per tic .... it give you 48 at Adept 1 53 at adept 3 and 60 only at Master 1 which isn't excatly common...</DIV> <DIV>Its take more then 6 min to crack 24 ... you wish lol ... It take 433 second with perfect connection and perfect fast targeting. It much more sence make a bot coercer/illusionist and and carry em around for that single purpose</DIV> <DIV>Hint2:</DIV> <DIV>There is no ability that posses coercer that other class cannt do better ... save ONE - none can do crowd control better then coercer period. Illusionist no match for coercer... Little problem thou  I know excatly ONE epic encounter that crowed control essential - Archlich Udalan, well toss here Nagalik - that's all - among ALL epic encounter you need PRIMARY skill of coercer there we shine only TWICE</DIV> <DIV>Now we talking about FUN.. I give you one thing fun is thing subjective - if for one person cracking 24 ppl during raid and spending more then hours on somethat other class do under 10-12 min is fun for others its not....</DIV> <DIV>If you ask me what deadly blow SOE made to coercer to make this class unplayable my answer will CHARM</DIV> <DIV>The whole class was builded around ONE SINGLE SKILL  -charm. All stuns, mezes, stifles, roots, slows were meant to be supporting skills for controling charmed pet... Now if your remove from this system 1 spell ... charm ... everything esle become meaningless. EQ2 dont need mez - it castrate AE DPS attack, EQ2 dont need slow most mob DPS comes from special, EQ2 coercer cannt stifle mobs ... unfortunally its monks job</DIV> <DIV>Honestly I dont see any future for coercers unless SOE will make presence debuffer/slower/stifler mandatory (possible) or finally fix charm (not likely)</DIV>

AdiX__Styxx__
07-21-2005, 06:23 PM
<P>tan i said i had master 1 thast why i stated the 60 sec and i even got two of them gave one to a frd! Now yer dribbling again about oh yeah other classes can do this and that better so who the heck cares! you keep doing that and its not helping get it through yer fat head that if ya want yer class fixed! Which i know ya tried and all! Ya gotta be more constructive! </P> <P>Only thing yer doing is making peeps less and less willing to play the class and there are so few already oh and yes ya were right about tha timer of putting breeze on 24 peeps but thats not really important now is it! </P> <P>I seriously do hope revamp will fix some of our spells upgrade some DPS not warlcok like by all means i would be happy wiht a mere 25 - 40% of a warlock DPS if they fix my other spells! like stated charm the stuns casting time and mayeb duration also stupid stuff like Besklor better then the 46 skill devouring thoughts at master 1 and yes i got this one too i got it when my coercer was lvl 27 not knowing it was a crappy spell (my guardian looted it when soloing some stuff). </P> <P>I know we arent all that but plz man think b4 ya get on tha parade!</P>

Tanatus
07-23-2005, 02:34 AM
<P>Look man, I have rank #3 on Nektulos among coercers and had lvl 50 for almost halth year so believe me - I know all tricks and perks that coercer can do but to understand how deep in [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sitting my coercer I made a warlock - I twinked him moderately but since lvl 37 ,,, warlock was a major money producer not coercer who was lvl 50</P> <P>There are many more criteria how you can compare classes - I seen one really good method. Compare lvl of classes to solo certain quests... Basically coercer falls 3-4 lvl behind of mainstream and 6-7 lvl behind of top tier classes. </P> <P>I want you ppl understand 1 simple thing - the less ppl playing class the higher chance class will be looking at. It been true in EQ1 it IS true in EQ2. So best thing you can do to fix this class - is stop playing it</P>

Bloodtoo
07-23-2005, 06:29 AM
<span><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:So best thing you can do to fix this class - is stop playing it <div></div><hr></blockquote>Don't really think that needs to be said, it's fairly clear not many people play coercers at this point.  There are a few diehards that love their characters too much to stop playing them, and will tough it out no mater what.  An even smaller number who think the class is fine the way it is.  We all know this class is on a downward spiral of utilization, and I'm sure SOE is well aware of it too as they have beter stats than we do...well most times.                                               God I hope they know.                                                                 Please let them know. </span><div></div>

Chog
08-05-2005, 09:41 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dystrax wrote:<BR> <BR>playing a coercer well is not about doing massive damage - since we dont do much damage at all.  playing a coercer well is largely about preventing mobs from damaging your gruop in the first place.  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I'm hoping that is true after the revamp. But I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times outside a raid I've seen where it was necessary to reduce the damage of a mob. The heavy armor tanks, warriors in particular, mitigate damage so well that it is a complete waste of power to debuff the mobs, and mezzing mobs simply protects them from AE damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And, remember, the most effective way to reduce the damage output of mobs is to kill them faster. Until and unless SOE makes it hard for the tank to survive the fight without damage reduction, debuffing and mezzing will be inferior to DPS.</DIV>

Kylal
08-10-2005, 06:22 AM
Hehe, don't worry about tanks soaking up all the damage so enchanters aren't needed.  With these changes coming in, we are gonna be in high demand, esp since you'll need one chanter/bard per raid group.<BR><BR>Just spend a day on test and you'll see how many tanks are now getting their brains beat in.  Heavy armor now = less avoidance, and right now heavy shields are more of a detriment because they are bugged and don't increase mitigation, but they still lower avoidance =P.  With the new lineup, power adjustments, and overall combat changes, I finally have hopes of this becoming the "epic" that EQ1 was.

teknoide
08-11-2005, 03:41 PM
Just one thing, the coercer is one (and maybe the only but not sure of that) of the class that can permastiffle alone an epic encounter, just for information (spell level 30 and not the update 44 spell). Even with a resist the encounter have only 1sec2  without stiffle and with my coercer guildmate all the epic are quite easy down permastiffled. So when you see the utility of stiffle : brutal act of war (first act), lost spirit of norrath (some quite fun encounters), our best dragons venekor and vox, even drayek good day ice comet and more again the coercer is not only a mana regen bot. <div></div>

PigLick
08-11-2005, 07:39 PM
<span><blockquote><hr>teknoide wrote:Just one thing, the coercer is one (and maybe the only but not sure of that) of the class that can permastiffle alone an epic encounter, just for information (spell level 30 and not the update 44 spell). Even with a resist the encounter have only 1sec2  without stiffle and with my coercer guildmate all the epic are quite easy down permastiffled. So when you see the utility of stiffle : brutal act of war (first act), lost spirit of norrath (some quite fun encounters), our best dragons venekor and vox, even drayek good day ice comet and more again the coercer is not only a mana regen bot. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Won't be able to after the changes, they've modified the duration and recast of the stifles. However, they all now have a chance to affect epics if I'm not mistaken, but we definitely won't be able to perma-stifle. PigLick</span><div></div>

dhvyse000
08-15-2005, 09:51 PM
Nope, our power regen is just being mega nerfed for some reason. I like the dmg adds, but not in exchange for my CC and REGEN. This whole thing is just becoming rediculous if you ask me. The only thing we needed fixed was a little more dmg and an easier way to solo, we didn't ask to become mini-wizards with a little more utility. Upping our DOTs and DDs would of done the job.. charm is nice too, when it works and isn't buggy.

Dystr
08-16-2005, 12:15 AM
people in test and on beta are saying that clarity is just fine at 32 ppt (master1).  spell costs have been lowered in general, so people are not having mana issues. <div></div>

Karde Shar
08-20-2005, 08:46 PM
<DIV>1) Yes those screenshots are for real (Dystrax took them)</DIV> <DIV>2) Bruisers do 250+ DPS on beta</DIV> <DIV>3) Coercers dont' even come close</DIV> <DIV>4) CC and Stifle have been severely crippled</DIV> <DIV>5) Power regen abilities are still tops (but at what cost?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Combat changes are so sweeping that it is hard to tell where we'll fall......</DIV><p>Message Edited by Karde Sharke on <span class=date_text>08-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:19 PM</span>

Dystr
08-21-2005, 03:22 AM
actually this thread is about another screenshot thread i started for live spells 1-50. <div></div>