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Mezmier
06-24-2005, 08:31 AM
<DIV>Had packed away my Gloom spell for some time now think it was a T2 spell, but a Coercer friend says he uses it and it stacks with Despair haven't been on to try it yet, but was wondering if any other Coercers use Gloom at lvl 50?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please advise your experiences,</DIV>

Dystr
06-24-2005, 09:03 AM
i use it at 49.  i am in a raiding guild with another coercer so i cast gloom instead of despair, and i have it at adept 3.  definitely worth upgrading.  decent debuff. i have cerebral spasm adept 3 too for the debuff. <div></div>

Mezmier
06-24-2005, 09:13 AM
<DIV>If you "yourself" cast both Despair + Gloom do the debuffs stack + damage on DoT stack with one another?</DIV>

Vithe
06-24-2005, 12:18 PM
I still use gloom as well as despair at level 50 because it stacks and, well, I couldn't really think of any good reason not to.  It is all extra damage.  I also still have cerebral spasm memmed and use it for HO progressions, as it is such a fast cast spell. Vithe 50 Coercer - Lucan D'Lere <div></div>

Tanatus
06-24-2005, 07:48 PM
<P>No point in that ...</P> <P>Yes debuff stacks but gloom total DPS next to nothing and so is debuff... Much better way to keep mob fully debuffed use combo Ravage Psyche + Despair</P>

Dystr
06-24-2005, 09:13 PM
.......or you could stack Ravaged psyche, despair, gloom, and cerbral spasm and debuff even more.  the dps isnt the reason to cast these spells. <div></div>

Tanatus
06-25-2005, 12:24 AM
there is no other reasons for that thou...

Dystr
06-25-2005, 01:33 AM
Tan, so you are saying regardless of the debuffs these spells provide, because they dont provide stellar DPS they are not worthy of casting? whatever, i disagree. <div></div>

Tanatus
06-25-2005, 08:51 AM
<DIV>Let me explain then ...</DIV> <DIV>Coercer debuffs except Ravaged Psyche debuff mob in very specific field of resistance - namely arcane only druids and enchanters using that resistance for anything. Druids aren't DPS class (same goes for enchanter unfortunally) thus debuffing mob against arcane resistance serve no purpose - they not help ANYONE but enchanters. Then back to original thing I have said - gloom is crappy dps and neglible resistance debuff it not help anyone but coercer and +-263 to mental aren't gona affect your DPS because RP ~1300 at M1 and Desp ~1300 at M1 thus we are talking about ~10%</DIV>

Mage-Apprentice
06-26-2005, 01:32 AM
<P>I completly agree with tan for once, at lvl 50, look at your own resists, and what does 300 resist add? 3%, not that much more, so you cast a spell that last "short and takes 2 sec to cast, for 3% more dam??</P> <P>I rather cast a real nuke iso of gloom, much more dps increase (read the full dam the nuke does is more than that debuff will ever give).</P>

Dystr
06-27-2005, 09:37 PM
<div></div><div></div>3% more damage, correct.  well worth it if you are the back up coercer and can hardly ever cast despair or tyrannical mind. EDIT: why wouldnt you want to do 3% more damage if you complain about the paltry nature of our DPS? <div></div><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Dystrax on <span class=date_text>06-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:42 AM</span>

Tanatus
06-27-2005, 10:31 PM
<P>Dystrax for 2 main reason</P> <P>a) 3% from 90DPS is 3DPS ..... do you REALLY think that 3DPS make ANY difference on raid?</P> <P>b) Resistance cap - mob resistance apperently cannt go negative and once you priece all what they have or most - there is zero reson to apply anything extra... Ravaged and Despair depending on quality of spells bring resistance of -2000 (adp1)  up to -2600 (m1)</P> <DIV>c) instead of casting gloom you better chain cast Seizure or Muddled thinking - spells have chance to interupt casting and even they dont do much DPS they still usefull for raid</DIV>

Dystr
06-27-2005, 10:51 PM
 i chain cast seizure.  seizure has a recast timer.  during the recast i find it useful to cast other spells, call me crazy.  are you suggesting that i would contribute more dps by merely sitting there and waiting for seizure's recast to expire? refusing to utilize tools that are in fact beneficial because they provide nominal benevolence is ignorant.  if i had a choice between you giving me 3 dollars or no dollars at all, i would take the three dollars. you, however, would refuse the 3 dollars simply becuase its not 100 dollars, and dammit, you deserve 100 dollars. i want 100 dollars too, man, but i might as well use the 3 that i am given. <div></div>

Tanatus
06-27-2005, 11:18 PM
Gmm why not cast far more usefull and damaging spells like Despair, Torment, Haruspex, Belkor Mind Gorge?

Dystr
06-27-2005, 11:30 PM
Again, i am the back up coercer, so this is my strategy. Because SOE sucks, i can never cast tyrannical mind - fellow coercer has the master and it doesnt stack. torment? torment has the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]tiest DPS of our spells.  4 sec cast, 24 sec duration, something like 450-500 dmg at adept 3 total.  but i cast it.  still not sure why, but i do.  Haruspex, i cast it.  45 second recast.  lots of down time here to cast other stuff. BMG? i cast it as often as i can.  45 second recast, lots of down time.  The bottom line is that my casts basically look like this. Ravaged Psyche Seizure Gloom Seizure Cerebral Spasm Seizure Withering Silence Seizure BMG Seizure Haruspex Seizure Ego Blast Seizure Torment Seizure etc, etc.  refresh as needed.  so yes, i use gloom and cerebral spasm, and even withering silence. i have them all adept 3 and i would pay for the masters. <div></div>

Tanatus
06-28-2005, 01:56 AM
<DIV>Well torment do 945 damage over 24s (135 on impact and 135X6 time every 4s) ...</DIV> <DIV>Despair do 648-804 over 24s</DIV> <DIV>This 2 spell by far margine our 2 most powerfull spells .... but in a sence you right - if 1 coercer using em - other coercer cannt</DIV>

Dystr
06-29-2005, 11:24 PM
actually, as an update, now that i am 50 i can cast everything over my fellow coercers spells if we have the same quality of the spell.  i can cast master clarity and overwrite his master clarity, i can cast adept 3 despair and over write, i can cast BMG and over write, and i can even (finally) cast tyranical mind without stacking issues.  its soooo nice to be able to "nuke" again. <div></div>

Azmode
07-04-2005, 05:59 PM
Gloom and spasm are off my hotbar.

Huskyla
07-04-2005, 09:28 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azmodeus wrote:<BR>Gloom and spasm are off my hotbar. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Not mine at level 50.  For tough epic mobs that need stiffling, I make sure to keep ravaged psyche, gloom, despair up before hitting Withering Silence / Liska's Quietude.  </P> <P> </P> <P>Spasm I keep up for situational use when I need to complete a HO really quick.</P> <P> </P> <P>Both are worth using IMO.</P>

Azmode
07-04-2005, 10:18 PM
Guess its good people do things differently.  I am lucky if I can cast Ravaged Psyche and Despair.  I am usually buffing my comrades

Huskyla
07-04-2005, 10:34 PM
<P>Breeze re-cast time is 16 seconds, that leaves me time between casts for:</P> <P>Ravaged Psyche as the tank gets agro -- Casting time 2 seconds with a 1 mins 12 sec duration.</P> <P>Gloom -- casting time 2 seconds</P> <P>Despair -- casting time 2 seconds</P> <P>Quietude/Withering -- casting time 2 seconds</P> <P> </P> <P>So right there is 8 seconds every minute and 12 seconds.  If Psyche is up, its only 6 seconds to cast those Gloom/Despair/Stiffle.  Still plenty time for a Tyrranical Mind, Devouring Thoughts / BMG, or whatever else you want to toss in there (usually a hate reducer for me) before hitting that [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] breeze button again.</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azmodeus wrote:<BR>Guess its good people do things differently.  I am lucky if I can cast Ravaged Psyche and Despair.  I am usually buffing my comrades <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P>

Azmode
07-05-2005, 05:54 AM
Sometimes you have time.. sometimes you dont.  We dont stop and wait for the enchanters to buff everyone up before  the pull.  Most of the time MT and clerics are done before the pull and I have to buff during the fight.  Why have everyone wait?  Having a lonely chanter in a raid is not a fun job, and there are some fights where I dont do anything besides buff.  You also have to rebuff the dead/rezzed people also.   Casting Ravaged for the Cleric debuffs and the sorcerers nukes is more than enough.  In my opinoin gloom is a waste of a cast. 

Huskyla
07-05-2005, 07:56 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azmodeus wrote:<BR>Sometimes you have time.. sometimes you dont.  We dont stop and wait for the enchanters to buff everyone up before  the pull.  Most of the time MT and clerics are done before the pull and I have to buff during the fight.  Why have everyone wait?  Having a lonely chanter in a raid is not a fun job, and there are some fights where I dont do anything besides buff.  You also have to rebuff the dead/rezzed people also.   Casting Ravaged for the Cleric debuffs and the sorcerers nukes is more than enough.  In my opinoin gloom is a waste of a cast.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Disagree, with 16 seconds between casts, if you don't have a laggy connection, this is plenty of time to cast other spells.  You can either chain cast nukes like Seizure, or debuff and stiffle.  IMO depending on what the target is, and the raid make-up, gloom plus other debuffs and stiffle is the way to go.

Azmode
07-05-2005, 02:33 PM
I could go on about withering silence also, but I will let the thread die.   <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />