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Krelfeari
06-02-2005, 12:55 PM
<DIV>Alright this is not really news but it does confirm what I've been saying all along...its a direct quote, cut and pasted from a moor post, read on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I've stated before that enchanters will be rising in relative power compared to some classes, especially fighters. This remains part of the spell/art rebalancing that is currently underway. That said, enchanters will have less raw DPS than the other types of mages, and they will also fall below some of the scouts. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>===========================<BR>Moorgard<BR>EverQuest II Community Guy </FONT></P> <P> <HR> <P></P> <P> </P> <P>There ya go, oh and here is the link to that particular post....so, the wait will be over shortly. </P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=49537&page=14" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=49537&page=14</A></P> <P>Oh, and for everyone thats about to say "but they made promises like that b4! boo hoo boo hoo they broke my wittle heart!!" well, if this patch does'nt really change a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing and is just a big fat lie u still have no choice but to wait or quit. Pick one and shut up. Next?</P> <P> </P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=49537&page=14" target=_blank></A> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P></DIV>

Nerj
06-02-2005, 03:07 PM
At least we know now that the DEVs have NO real improvement in store for us. THat the Enchanter class will be for those that 2 box characters. Plus the need for Enchanters will also be zero. Makes me glad that my new Froogy Warlock will be close to my Coercer level soon. Will just need to petion to have my Collector items transferred to it.

Krelfeari
06-02-2005, 04:10 PM
actually, in accordance with the whole "balance" idea, I am assuming since Coercer DPS is now low and getting raised, the ridiculous warlock DPS will be effectively nerfed, it kinda has to be since right now they out dps scouts and scouts are supposed to finally take their place as highest dps after this patch to my knowledge....good luck with ur warlock, but don't expect their uberness to last.

Orki who Pos
06-02-2005, 04:48 PM
<DIV><FONT size=3></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT size=3>Krelf:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>It has repeatedly been stated that damage is supposed to go </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>mage>scout>fighter>priest</FONT></P><FONT size=3> <P><FONT size=3>With the noted exception that a high damage scout should do more than a low damage mage, and a high damage fighter more than a low damage scout, and so on.</FONT></P> <P> </P></FONT> <P><FONT size=3>This is why scouts can use medium armor, have more hitpoints, keep the parry skill, have decent debuffs and get evac.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>A warlocks dps output is NOT ridiculous, it's actually rather well balanced compared to fighters/scouts.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>If anything, expect a warlocks single target damage to be increased from 40 to 50. (several spells at those levels are totally broken)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>What WILL change is that warlocks will not remain the incredibly powerfull crowd controllers they are right now, too bad, so sad.. enjoy it while it lasts.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(4 unlinked decent recast stuns, 2 unlinked roots, and an area unbreakable root)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Also, am i the only one noting that</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>A: They dont give a timeframe.. even considering several months has passed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>and</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>B: They state our damage will increase compared to fighters/scouts, and that they have allready said fighters were gonna get nerfed.. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>- So it might just suggest they are leaving coercers as-is.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>PS: Out of curiosity krelf, are you still waiting for duke nukum forever? Or have you given up on that one yet...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>While i can accept having no eta for the rebirth of Christ...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>I do indeed feel SOE should post an ETA for the promised coercer/healer balancing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>06-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:51 PM</span>

Nerj
06-02-2005, 04:56 PM
<DIV>Moorgard stated this too : "Sorcerers give up most of their defense for high offense" and "In general, wizard/warlock damage will be highest, though there is no iron-clad guarantee that this will be the case in every possible situation."</DIV>

Pins
06-02-2005, 05:25 PM
And what happens to the people who don't really care too much about a damage increase.  But would rather see a slight damage increase, and a huge increase in our "class defining" skills? And hell, we knew all along they "plan" on increasing our DPS.  Just when will this plan actually happen is what we want to know.  And our "raw" DPS, does that mean just our damage skills?  Or does that mean everything we do.  Because if we have lower overall DPS(including our "group enhancements") than a sorcerer in a group, then we are useless, and cannot take the place of a sorcerer in a group. How about they address the rest of the issues with class.  Damage isn't our only problem.  Look at the "roots."  Look at the actual use of mez.  Look at everything else that is wrong with the class.  More damage just makes the rest of the problem get swept up under the rug to be ignored even longer because our class can do the mage role. <div></div>

nithrill
06-02-2005, 07:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Orki who Posts wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT size=3>...</FONT></P> <P>Also, am i the only one noting that</P> <P>A: They dont give a timeframe.. even considering several months has passed.</P> <P>and</P> <P>...</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nope, not the only one.</P> <P>I have been wondering as to the reasons and what I came up with was:</P> <OL> <LI>The upcoming adventure pack was designed with the current combat system in mind, so don't put out a new combat system just before or during its two to three months of existance.</LI> <LI>They want to launch the new combat system during low population period on the servers and have concluded (with data from EQ1) that to be late summer at the end of August.</LI> <LI>The launch of the new combat system is realy to coincide with the launch of the September expansion pack, which is designed for the new combat system.</LI> <LI>They have a team of five working on the combat system; two developers, one designer and two managers (one of which is on an extended leave and the other one which doesn't even play EQ2).</LI></OL> <P>Other more devious things spring to mind but are best left out of print.</P>

Tanatus
06-02-2005, 08:27 PM
Ppl wake up ... NOTHING gona happend before new expantion will pop... Its MUCH easy to balance things for next tier of spells and encounters then try to reright and reroll old system <DIV>I am almost sure current status quo wont be touched... But at lvls 50-60 happens next</DIV> <DIV>a) Sorcs will lose somethat CC ability, retain DPS ability and may be even get some boost in DPS</DIV> <DIV>b) Summoners get SERIOUS boost of DPS</DIV> <DIV>c) Enchnaters in general get shaft as usual but due to DPS nerf of scouts and fighters will move up on DPS ladder</DIV>

Verdemy
06-02-2005, 10:09 PM
<P>Is there any way to ostricize someone from the coercer coomunity?</P> <P>How about a good old fashioned stoning?   </P> <P>The OP has a new piece of information which may address some of of coercer's problems, but certainly not all of them....and some "guy" has to start flaming from the outset.........No ostricizaion or stoning?  can we"ignore" a person, like on the game?        </P> <P>I wish i wasnt lowering myself to respond to this "guy" , i apologize now for not being able to help myself.:smileymad: </P> <P>I</P>

Krelfeari
06-03-2005, 06:24 AM
<P>lol, while my OP was a true blue quote, it was somewhat of a test, and I was right, even when presented with good news the majority of the coercer community still complained....amazing....I have not seen such bitter, pesimism since high school....sad.</P> <P>While yes we do get a DPS increase its also been said, officially that this patch will bring spell balances as well, which should effectively help to bring our buffs to a more moderate role in parties.</P> <P>the word "raw" has definitions from not cooked to naked but what I think they mean is pure DD/DOT dps. The straight forward damage spells, not the indirect damage from buffs or CC thru beguile and such.</P> <P>Also, while they have not set a date, I find it amazing that someone can wait for an invisible being that supposedly is all powerful and yet takes no responsibility for death and desease on the plant they supposedly created.....and not be able to wait for a game patch. I don't wanna make this a religious argument, but u brought it up.</P> <P>I myself have no idea on the date of it, hopefully sooner than later is all I can say as to that but I don't think it will be 3 months from now....I think it will be b4 the expansion comes out. Notice, key word "Think".</P> <P>Finally, thank you Verdemyst for having a backbone, unlike some of these other posters...</P>

Nerj
06-03-2005, 07:10 AM
<P>Lol, What was said is:</P> <P> Enchanter's will be limited to 1/2 the available content of the other classes. Since our DPS will be on the low end compared to Scouts and with less armor. In order, to generate any good DPS you will need to be grouped, therefore shut out of Solo content. However, since our buffs do very little and our Stuns/Mezs have little to no effect , compared to Sorcerer's. We are hosed in groups too.</P> <P>In addition, we are also to weak to be able to solo since our lower DPS will not be able to kill MOBs of a similar level. Figure doing green solo MOBs for 0.25% add in death debt and you get a very long grind. Therefore the faster killing classes will be more populated. End result, very few new Coercer players. </P> <P>However, for those that 2 box.  A macro controlled Enchanter will be a good thing. Will just need to hit a couple of Hotkeys and be set for the next 15 min.</P>

Impetus
06-03-2005, 08:22 AM
First of all, Krelfearius, that wasn't really anything new. Moorgard has said all that before. And the news wasn't even that good for enchanters, so I'm not sure why you expect everyone to start jumping up and down with joy. (We'll be rising in relative power, especially compared to Fighters. That means they're getting their damage nerfed. We're still going to be the lowest damaging mage class, and probably below all scouts except Bards.) Second, yes it was a quote, but you also threw insults and jabs at the rest of the enchanter/coercer community and said things like "Pick one and shut up. Next?" It's like every time you post you have to slip in your snide remarks. Even in this latest post where you're explaining yourself, you say that other posters don't have a backbone. We all get it now. You're the insulting "I have a lowbie Coercer and I'm doing fine" guy. I wish you would just give it a rest. I'd personally rather read another rant from Tanatus over another comment from you. At least he has a point, he's trying to get his class fixed. You're just here to insult everyone and tell them how wrong they are. I mean, you even made your Coercer so you could prove everyone wrong. <div></div>

ootpek
06-03-2005, 05:16 PM
Or instead of discussing an upcoming change ad nauseum we could wait to see what happens and THEN comment.  Everything now is just speculation.  I for one am excited to see things change, hopefully for the better although I'm having a blast in my 40's so far.  If it gets better cause of the changes I'll just be having more fun.  <div></div>

Krelfeari
06-03-2005, 06:13 PM
<DIV> <P>Impetus u didn't take enuff time when u read my post, I said people like you would come back saying moor has said this b4, and i clearly said for you guys to shut up and wait. I've made posts here asking for constructive criticism b4 and it doesn't work so don't start with my about my remarks.</P> <P>I've made more than 1 completely positive post on the coercer forums here and gotten flamed for them so spare me your whinery.</P> <P>Also, they have not said they are leaving our damage as is and lowering fighters as a balance to our damage, your flat out wrong if you think you read this anywhere. Our raw DPS will be improved, not our dps in comparison to fighters will be better. Our damage is going to increase, plain and simple.</P> <P>Also, if you thought the Coercer class has been lowest damage mage since this games release...what is ur point? Someone has to be and since summoners use pets for damage, and sorc's are all about damage...it can't be them can it? If Chanter was medium DPS it would defeat his purpose as much as just playing a sorc and using app level skills at lvl 50, we were never meant for huge dps read outs, whatever gave u such an idea is beyond me.</P> <P>Also, I do not "slip in" any remarks that or snide or otherwise. Its text....it reads from left to right, how do i "slip in" a remark? They are in plain sight and meant to be.</P> <P>Also, u love to take the stuff i say outta context so much, go read my OP the pick one and shut up line is for people JUST LIKE YOU who love to reply to a positive post with negative crap like "that wasn't really anything new." I distinctly predicted people like u would say exactly that....but u failed to understand my post and keep ur mouth shut. As to why, I have no idea, I guess u feel the need to instigate arguments to help relieve stress or something, I don't really care. Next time, if the post says "Negative People Do NOT Post Here" Would u stay out? Didn't think so...</P> <P>Oh, and Tan has already said he gave up on gettin coercer changed so I guess thats another post u did'nt fully understand. Also, saying the warlock is incredibly amazing and better than Coercer in every way is hardly constructive feedback for soe to work with. Also, no, I had a gnomish enchanter in FP b4 I even visited these forums, so again you must have misplaced ur reading glasses as that was clearly in the post where u got the idea that I made my Coercer JUST to prove everyone wrong.</P> <P>Almost everything u said was completely unfounded really. Not to mention u actually said a dps increase for the class (a positive change that we DO need and even tan has mentioned) in ur words "wasn't even that good for enchanters". Yeah...wow. Sure.</P> <P>For everyone here that thinks DPS increase is not very good, go ahead and /feedback about how u want this whole enchanter dps increase to just be dropped from the patch cause its not even that good. No? You mean every single coercer in the entire game thinks they need more DPS? Wow...nice one Imp....really.</P> <P>Next time b4 u go shooting off making false claims I suggest u read the posts your commenting on more thouroughly. Really. :smileywink:</P> <P> </P></DIV>

Impetus
06-03-2005, 07:54 PM
Oh I understood, but the great thing about a message board is that I don't have to shut up. /shrug Here's the thing: Moorgard has never posted that we will have our "raw DPS" increased. He has posted several times that our "relative DPS ranking" will rise. Maybe I'm just completely cynical, but you have to read between the lines when he posts. For example: if something gets fixed, it's an enhancement. If something gets nerfed, it's an "adjustment." He uses more euphemisms than I've ever seen in my life. So, to me, as I interpret the Word of Moorgard, a "relative" DPS increase compared to fighters means that fighters DPS is getting nerfed, and we're not changing much, if at all. And when I said his quote was bad news, I meant the part where he put the finishing blow on our hope of having more damage then some of the scouts. According to his quote, we might have more than bards, although we might not.<span></span><div></div>

Nerj
06-03-2005, 08:02 PM
<P>Yes all good points.</P> <P>We know that fighter DPS will be reduced. They are still trying to get to the point of Mage=Scout>Fighter>Priest for DPS. Currently, some fighter's outdamage everyone, except Sorcerers. They have also stated that they want fights to last longer, therefore lower DPS equals longer fights. They are trying to insert a need for CC by doing this.</P> <P>We will also be the only class, that loses DPS when a group mate dies. Since, our "relative" DPS in a group will rise based on our "buff botting". The fewer group members the lower our DPS will be  </P>

Orki who Pos
06-03-2005, 08:28 PM
<P><FONT size=3>It's easy to say shut up and wait..</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>But i have been waiting so long now that the warlock i started when i began waiting is now higher level than the coercer i put on hold...</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>If there's one thing i have learned about SOE in the ´6+ years i've played their games, it is.. if a class is broken, DON'T PLAY IT.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>Class balance fixes takes a looong loooong while, they'd rather under-do it than over do it. Sad, but true.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT></DIV>

Tanatus
06-03-2005, 09:28 PM
<DIV>Bull Eye Orki!</DIV> <DIV>If class broken dont play it - that's the only way to show developers that something wrong with class... I have learn it during playing necro in EQ1 (my necro was made in oct 1999 upon opening Nameless)</DIV> <DIV>As usual ppl missing my point...</DIV> <DIV>As it stands now sorcs as part of Mage archtype have superiority in every single aspect of game that belong to mages</DIV> <DIV>a) CC  ... my guild farming MoM (higher tier loot table compare to say Dareyk or Zalak) - guess what classes doing CC on this fight (and you have to do CC or robot will tear apart your healers) .... warlocks and wizards chain casting AE root. King Derayk fight ... same picture - CC is warlock duty</DIV> <DIV>b) Utility - stuning epic mobs like Dara is warlock duty, buffing Proc (haha increase group DPS via) is warlock job, Group Mana Tap .... about as good as Devoruing Toughts, Direct + Power buff better then coercer one... Skill debuff and Stats debuff work on epic mobs - enchanters cannt debuff skills (major DPS debuff) and cannt debuff stats (moderate DPS debuff) heck they cannt land stuns or stifles on epic mobs...</DIV> <DIV>c) DPS - ya right dont make me even start here 90-110 DPS in full burn mode for coercer who have 50% masters spells and 50% Adept 3 is pretty much cap assuming that no mental resistance what so ever (ya right .... Darathar anyone?).. Thats for lvl 50 coercer compare to lvl 46 warlock even given fact that halth spell total resisted due to lvl he still double DPS of coercer on main target and 4-5X more then coercer then we are talking about AE </DIV> <DIV>Point is in current combat system where is no place for coercer and the ONLY thing that can somethat fix coercer is 300-400% DPS boost</DIV>

Vlaven
06-03-2005, 09:36 PM
<P>Well I would be very happy if my DPS is in the middle of the scout pack.   I found the OP very encouraging but of course the lack of time frame a bit depressing.</P> <P>Vlav</P> <P> </P>

Krelfeari
06-04-2005, 09:23 AM
<DIV>Also, if u read around a bit in official posts, and just a couple posts up the overall damage of every class is rumored to drop to make fights longer....which means sorcs will be getting their damage nerfed....everyone else might get lower too....or not...but easiest way to make a fight longer and harder is to make players weaker since its easier to tweak a player archetypes progression than every mob in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hit 23 last night and am gonna continue with my coercer till 50, i hope to get 50 b4 DoF....and yes, true, it is easy to say shut up and wait, but its also the only choice if u want a coercer fixed....i never once said keep playing it, i said wait, i don't care if u play a kalamazoo while u wait really, but wether u play a coercer or a giant ju ju bean does'nt change the fact that there is 1 choice; wait.</DIV>

JohnJac
06-05-2005, 02:02 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Krelfearius wrote:<BR> <DIV>Also, if u read around a bit in official posts, and just a couple posts up the overall damage of every class is rumored to drop to make fights longer....which means sorcs will be getting their damage nerfed....everyone else might get lower too....or not...but easiest way to make a fight longer and harder is to make players weaker since its easier to tweak a player archetypes progression than every mob in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>I hit 23 last night and am gonna continue with my coercer till 50</FONT>, i hope to get 50 b4 DoF....and yes, true, it is easy to say shut up and wait, but its also the only choice if u want a coercer fixed....i never once said keep playing it, i said wait, i don't care if u play a kalamazoo while u wait really, but wether u play a coercer or a giant ju ju bean does'nt change the fact that there is 1 choice; wait.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>sorry for rant but this guy has just REALLY pisssed me off</FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>WHAT THE [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]?! YOU ARE LEVEL 23?! Now hold up I have read all the way through this, I thought hey this guy just might have a point.  But come on man you are level 23?! [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] DO U KNOW ABOUT COERCERS! NOTHING! GO AWAY LEAVE COERCERS ALONE!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Retired 44 Coercer</DIV>

Krelfeari
06-05-2005, 07:14 AM
<DIV>To suggest that in a game where skill is almost non existant, that I would need to be on or near the highest level is absurd. All the facts have been clearly laid out here and on other websites. Damage is easily calculated by forumlas that are set in place and also easily recorded with parses, many of which have been posted here and on other forums. The improvement upon basic skills idea has allowed me, just thru lvl 1 to 23 has allowed me to use stuns, single target mez, and stifles....which represent the bulk of the coercer skill advancement in one variation or another. Keep this in mind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am often told I know nothing of the class because of my low level. To say that my low level suggests I can't be right, or even advocate changes in a positive direction for this class quite literally suggests that only victims of a crime should be allowed to fight back. I don't believe this either. In a game based completely on numbers, there is very little skill. Some manuverability is present in positioning urself well enuff that u can root the mob again b4 it reaches u incase the current root breaks and such, but those are not skills that require one to be a higher level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yourself, you said you read all the way through this thread and believed I might have a point....until you read my level....and yet my OP was a quote....a fact if u trust in the one who says it, and yet you believe somehow that to try to bring good news I must be a higher level? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've said this many times b4 and stand by it, as to relevance of level in this game where almost every item, enemy, guild, raid, attack and even footstep is constantly monitored and recorded not just by the creators but by many players and then presented for all to see in various places, this I believe, holds true...</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>One need not scale a mountain, to see pictures of the view of its summit.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>In many cases launched raids, even raids done for the first time by a guild have been done so many times b4 many places have recorded every detail of them as to assist those who undertake such an edeavor for the first time. Its possible to know every surprise waiting for you, the exact route to take, the HP of every mob, and in many cases, even what they could drop as a reward for their death.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hard to quote one of your statements as I've no idea exactly what the word is you used b4 "DO YOU KNOW ABOUT COERCERS!" but I can assure you that if you wish to have a heated debate on the topic of coercers in a game where I can currently read just about every single skills application, practical use, damage, level acquired, and other factors, you have the right to....it might take me 5 minutes tops to find an answer to almost anything you could ever concieve regarding just the coercer class if I did not already know the answer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>JohnJacob, you post was neither intelligent nor constructive, and I ask that you please refrain from responding to my posts if you merely wish to insult me. This can be done through the forum pm's and should not be done in a way that waists the time of those who have more important things to say. Thank you.</DIV>

JohnJac
06-05-2005, 08:21 AM
<DIV>ok ok ...thisll be my last post I hope to someone the likes of you, who thinks that making a Coercer or other class just to "prove that they arent as bad as the people who actually played the class from the get go say it is"<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Krelfearius wrote:<BR> <DIV>To suggest that in a game where skill is almost non existant, that <FONT color=#cc0000>I would need to be on or near the highest level is absurd. All the facts have been clearly laid out here and on other websites. Damage is easily calculated by forumlas that are set in place and also easily recorded with parses, many of which have been posted here and on other forums. The improvement upon basic skills idea has allowed me, just thru lvl 1 to 23 has allowed me to use stuns, single target mez, and stifles....which represent the bulk of the coercer skill advancement in one variation or another. Keep this in mind.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>That is great man, FANTASTIC, I'm glad that you enjoy the EARLY days of the Coercer, truly awesome, I know I did <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  However, at levels, ohhh, right around 37.6 (you get the UBER Beguile) things roll DOWN HILL...DOWN DOWN....>>DOWN</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>````                     /``````` </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                         /            </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                        /              </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                       /                </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                      /                  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>           ``````` /                    </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                             </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                             </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                                __ ________     <---You end up, sadly down here <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Why?  Because the use of our CC is virtually no longer needed :  Why?  Because the tanks can tank it all and the healers can heal them, no need for us.  And because of that reason, that we our not needed on our CC utilities, that is why we complain about our DPS.  IE, without our CC being used, we need to do something.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>When I use the nukes I do 420 damage per nuke (thats AFTER you use the 2 debuffs your given) you can use Muddled thinking which throws in another 120 dmg or so.  After that u can use it once more and then its time to cast the 2 debuffs.  If u dont use the debuffs your main nuke does about 200 dmg at best.  blah blah blah look I can go on forever but its a lost cause.  </FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>I dont know what a wizzy or whoever else can do in about 2 mintues but I know in 2 mintues I can cast those 2 dots about twice at best maybe 3, muddled thinking prob 4, and main nuke twice.  This isnt parcing I know but common man...that DPS SUX...period.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>And besides all that I want to COERCE things,  heck the whole reason I made this char was to Charm things and use my CC <FONT color=#ccffff>(read charm is not CC, at least in its current form).  </FONT>ATM whenever your charmed mob becomes UNCHARMED it keeps all your groups buffs.  So, the mob takes much longer to kill, depending on what buffs you have up etc of course.   Lets not even talk about how long charm lasts....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I hope that you enjoy your Coercer, but I for one no longer do, hence I no longer play it, hence why am I posting on this [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] page?  Because I would like to see them fixed one day.  Which'll probably be many years down the road.  I like to stick up for the people who KNOW that Coercers need to be looked into and fixed (read upgraded).  I mean come on, you have to KNOW that they are in bad shape when on a server you do a /who all Coercer and about 8 show up...[Removed for Content].  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>When you are about 45 or so and you still like your Coercer, again great awesome, enjoy being a buff bot and VERY VERY VERY Rarely using your CC, that would actually HELP the group.  Peace.  </FONT><FONT color=#ccffff>(Read you only have 1 MEZ spell at I think 41 and up.) </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>P.S. Been a bit since I played, but pray your only mez doesnt get resisted, the mob starts hitting on you, and you die cause grp debt to your grp <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If you can hit the emergency buttons fast enough you should get away, however when you do the MT will most likely say, "thats ok man I got it, dont mez" thats when I said it was over, I'm done playing.  Thats when I found out...I'm a buffbot and nothing more.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc0000>I am often told I know nothing of the class because of my low level.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Coudln't have said it better myself.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To say that my low level suggests I can't be right, or even advocate changes in a positive direction for this class quite literally suggests that only victims of a crime should be allowed to fight back. I don't believe this either. In a game based completely on numbers, there is very little skill. Some manuverability is present in positioning urself well enuff that u can root the mob again b4 it reaches u incase the current root breaks and such, but those are not skills that require one to be a higher level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yourself, you said you read all the way through this thread and believed I might have a point....until you read my level....and yet my OP was a quote....a fact if u trust in the one who says it, and yet you believe somehow that to try to bring good news I must be a higher level?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've said this many times b4 and stand by it, as to relevance of level in this game where almost every item, enemy, guild, raid, attack and even footstep is constantly monitored and recorded not just by the creators but by many    players and then presented for all to see in various places, this I believe, holds true...</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>One need not scale a mountain, to see pictures of the view of its summit.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>YOU do for coercers, without a doubt.  When you think your on top of the world, you slip off the edge of the mountain </FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>you go soaring through the air, </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>you think you'll be ok...  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>You look up realizing you have no parachute,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>you pray youll be ok...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>You see the ground dead ahead,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>yet still you pray you'll be ok...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>You try to slow yourself down, alas it is pointless.  You hit the ground.  Nuff said.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>This is the life of a </FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>Coercer :smileysad: at its current.  6/4/05</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>(Alivenmezzin made it to the peak at 8/24/04 at 6:14pm C.S.T.   Found shortly there after sprawled on the ground without a parachute, R.I.P.  Your family misses you.)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>In many cases launched raids, even raids done for the first time by a guild have been done so many times b4 many places have recorded every detail of them as to assist those who undertake such an edeavor for the first time. Its possible to know every surprise waiting for you, the exact route to take, the HP of every mob, and in many cases, even what they could drop as a reward for their death.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hard to quote one of your statements as I've no idea exactly what the word is you used b4 "DO YOU KNOW ABOUT COERCERS!" but I can assure you that if you wish to have a heated debate on the topic of coercers in a game where I can currently read just about every single skills application, practical use, damage, level acquired, and other factors, you have the right to....it might take me 5 minutes tops to find an answer to almost anything you could ever concieve regarding just the coercer class if I did not already know the answer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>JohnJacob, you post was neither intelligent nor constructive, and I ask that you please refrain from responding to my posts if you merely wish to insult me. This can be done through the forum pm's and should not be done in a way that waists the time of those who have more important things to say. Thank you.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by JohnJacob on <SPAN class=date_text>06-04-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:26 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by JohnJacob on <span class=date_text>06-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:31 PM</span>

Orki who Pos
06-05-2005, 04:09 PM
Extreemely well put johnjacob.. for completeness i have added my feeling of how the warlock compared... now that i have played both to 40+ <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                                                           /```````....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                      </FONT><FONT color=#6633ff>                /```````````````                ......</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                                     |                                            ...<-- warlocks ends there</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                                /````                                   </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                                |                                         </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                                |                                       </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                                |                                          </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>            <FONT color=#6633ff>/```````````</FONT>/```                              </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>            <FONT color=#6633ff>| </FONT>             |               </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>            <FONT color=#6633ff>|</FONT>              |                   </FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>````<FONT color=#6633ff>`````  </FONT>            |          </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>         ................/            </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>       ./                              </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                         </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                          </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                           ```````</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                                       </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                                      </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                                          __________     <---You end up, sadly down here <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>   10     23           29 37 40  50         50 with good gear.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>You were way underrating stifle at lvl 29, it's a BIG thing.. and mana drain helps in the early game, especially since many people dont use decent drinks at lvl 18-30.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Just like the warlock gets severe jumps at 23, 37 and 50, when the big nukes comes in, and 40 with the area root</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason warlocks ends that low in the end is because melees gets more from gear upgrades, and focus items arent in the game for mages yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The thing to notice on the above graph is that warlocks are slightly better in most level ranges..  but there are DEFINITELY situations and groups where a coercer is a better choice than even a good warlock, it's just very rare, and probably not a very good group ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercers can make bad groups alot better, and good groups a little worse... on the other hand, if you have a good warlock, you allready have a good group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

JohnJac
06-05-2005, 05:38 PM
<DIV>Thanks orki <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  LOL, I love your graph <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> puts mine to shame.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do use stiffle as well, just isn't as useful at least to me unless we are fighting a hard ^^ named or higher.  Otherwise I really don't even cast it.  Seeing, as how I could be nuking instead of casting stiffle, seeing as how the tank will tank, and the healer will heal him just fine <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Or unless adds come along.</DIV> <P>Ahh, yes I remember the early days at around 14 or so I think, people asking for breeze, I'd say I don't get it until erm 18? 15?  Been a while hehe.  But yes, I would always be eating away my hp's <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  People would always ask, isn't that a shaman thing?  </P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Orki who Posts wrote:<BR>Extreemely well put johnjacob.. for completeness i have added my feeling of how the warlock compared... now that i have played both to 40+</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                                                         /```````....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                     </FONT><FONT color=#6633ff>                /```````````````                ......</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                                    |                                            ...<-- warlocks ends there</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                              /````                                   </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                                |                                         </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                                |                                       </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff>                               |                                          </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>            <FONT color=#6633ff>/```````````</FONT>/```                              </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>            <FONT color=#6633ff>| </FONT>             |               </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>            <FONT color=#6633ff>|</FONT>              |                   </FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>````<FONT color=#6633ff>`````  </FONT>            |          </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>        ................/            </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>       ./                              </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                         </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                        </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                          ```` ```</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                                      </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                                     </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>                                                         __________     <---You end up, sadly down here <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>  10     23           29 37 40  50         50 with good gear.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>You were way underrating stifle at lvl 29, it's a BIG thing.. and mana drain helps in the early game, especially since many people dont use decent drinks at lvl 18-30.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Just like the warlock gets severe jumps at 23, 37 and 50, when the big nukes comes in, and 40 with the area root</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason warlocks ends that low in the end is because melees gets more from gear upgrades, and focus items arent in the game for mages yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The thing to notice on the above graph is that warlocks are slightly better in most level ranges..  but there are DEFINITELY situations and groups where a coercer is a better choice than even a good warlock, it's just very rare, and probably not a very good group ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coercers can make bad groups alot better, and good groups a little worse... on the other hand, if you have a good warlock, you allready have a good group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR></DIV>

Krelfeari
06-05-2005, 06:30 PM
<P>actually, at 45 u might be worthless in the CC department but u don't need to be 45 to see this....I've been in a group of players all over 20 when I was 18....full group....I never once needed to mez the mobs we were fighting they died in no time at all and the mez was a complete waist of power....heck in this particular case stifles were even pathetic as the mobs power did'nt matter the tank was much more powerful than the mobs, they could hardly hurt him.</P> <P>This game is based on a rising scale that although not exactly the same at 20 as 50 u can get better than a rough idea of how worthless mez and CC alltogether is, believe me....if u don't, I suggest u make a new coercer, level to 20, then join a group of players all atleast 2-3 levels above urs or even the same level as u!....they will tear thru mobs fast enuff that ur spells are worthless and ur DD'S/DOT's are only there to help complete some HO's....where as, yes, a warlock would be better.....oh and let me also point out that 1 of the party members I was with was a 23 warlock when I was 18....even had he been 18, I am fairly sure he woulda been much MUCH more effective....infact, in most full groups I never do use mez unless its an amazingly difficult fight in which most cases the group runs....nobody grinds on mobs that are extremely dangerous or risky...so in most cases its the same fast burning tank can hold mobs game u high levels are playin....and if u still don't believe me, do it for urself....make a new coercer, lvl to 25, get in a full group and see how much u use mez....in a full group there is enuff DPS even orange con mobs drop in a matter of less than 10 seconds....even in a 5+ group I end up blocking the aoe...in most cases by the time I mezzed a mob and turned to cast some DD's  they were finished with the others and starting to kill the mezzed mob...believe me I know what ur saying and yes the class needs fixed, thats apparent even at 23, regardless of wether or not it gets worse at 36. </P> <P>finally in that case that mez was needed in a fight at 23, most cases a warlock can grab the mobs aggro, rootit, jump back a step then nuke it easily....the warlock can do this in nearly ever situation which a coercer could mez...and, since there roots rock so much they could probably do it with less risk since when they are done the mob is dead and when our mez breaks the mob can aggro us.</P> <P>Now tell me, aside from the fact that some of the non -twinked guys at my level actually need the power regen of adept1 breeze, how is it different at 45 than it is at 23?</P> <P> </P>

Orki who Pos
06-05-2005, 07:59 PM
<P>>Now tell me, aside from the fact that some of the non -twinked guys at my level actually need the power regen of adept1 breeze</P> <P> </P> <P>lvl 20 crafted drinks on my server costs less than 1 silver/hour, there's no excuse not to use them.</P> <P>Seriously, bring them along for group mates if they'r out.. i allways do that.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff>> how is it different at 45 than it is at 23?</FONT></P> <P>Lets take some quick examples:</P> <P>at lvl 23 a guardian can buff his defense by about 10, at lvl 45 he can buff his defense by 25 (not exact numbers)</P> <P>at lvl 23 a warden can buff defense by 0</P> <P>at lvl 45 a warden can buff defense by 10</P> <P> </P> <P>The effect of defense is that every 5 points makes you take hits from the mob like you were one level higher.</P> <P>The result: a lvl 23 guardian with a warden in the group tanks a lvl <FONT color=#ffff66><STRONG>25</STRONG></FONT> mob like a lvl 45 guardian would be tanking a lvl <FONT color=#ff3300><STRONG>52</STRONG></FONT> mob.</P> <P> </P> <P>There's ALOT of spells that scales like that.</P> <P>If your lvl 23 guardian gets attacked by 50 low green mobs, they wont hurt him at all... that's how even cons are to a good group at lvl 50.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT size=4><FONT color=#ffff66>A warlock at 45 is a completely different beast from a warlock at lvl 23</FONT>, <FONT color=#ffcc99>sure a lvl 23 is powerfull.. </FONT></FONT></P> <P><STRONG><FONT size=5><FONT color=#ff9933>But it is frankly like comparing young Luke Skywalker to Yoda..</FONT> </FONT></STRONG></P> <P> </P> <P>a lvl 45 warlock can stun the mob 90% of the fight, a lvl 23 warlock can stun the mob 15% of the fight.</P> <P>a lvl 45 sorcerer can unbreakably root everything near the group, a lvl 23 sorcerer can cast a root that gets broken by damage.</P> <P>- The difference between those is like night and day.. a lvl 23 warlock/wizard that gets aggro dies, a lvl 45 warlock/wizard stuns the mob, roots it, steps back, and kills it.</P> <P> </P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P>Also,  lvl 23 guardian likely wont have full heavy armor, a lvl 45 one does.</P></DIV>

ootpek
06-06-2005, 07:56 PM
Ok so you've proven that at level 18 grouped with 20's who are probably fighting things that are little or no challenge that CC is not needed.   I could have told you that.  Course at 18 I was at the bottom of FG fighting and mezzing and making a group work deep deep in FG when noone was above 20.  There, CC was definitely needed. And then later on in 18, we fought some greys to get rid of some quests that were taking up space and I didn't CC once.  Maybe we're not broken, maybe the mobs are just too easy?  <div></div>

Dystr
06-06-2005, 10:14 PM
oop, i am calling you out on being at the bottom of FG and cleaning house when no one was over 20.  you cant get past M1 in FG without a tank thats at least lvl 20, i dont care how good your group is.  all i know is that i never made it to the railroad tracks down there until i was playing my buddy's lvl 50 coercer so our guild could run through deception again.  the mobs down there are all at least 25 ^^.  that is, unless they nerfed FG since i was down there.  <div></div>

Azamien-Dermorate
06-06-2005, 11:19 PM
<P>Now that is come up let me tell you about opinion on Krelfearius.  Krelfearius is one of those guys that likes to go againts the grain, to be a rebel, to stand apart from the crowd, to be unquie in some way.   He picked one of the least played classes because to him that was part of the attraction.  He then comes to the forums and posts about how everyone should be happy with the way things are, again againts popular opinion, of those that have played the class much longer then he has. Here, he is rebeling againts the majority that want swift and drastic improvements made to the class.  He also hopes that the class when rebalanced (which is inevitable) that it doesn't become too powerfull or a more popular class; as then he won't be one of the few but, one of the many.  </P> <P>My advice is to try and understand why he posts what he does so that you can understand his point of view, even if you dont agree with it.</P> <P>Now I don't know Krelf personally, and I have made these opinions about him strickly by the manner and language in which he posts.   It will be intersting to see what comments he is sure to make about my assessment of his personality </P>

Krelfeari
06-07-2005, 02:58 AM
<P>true, I've clearly stated I am attracted to rare classes, in ultima online i tried a theif till they were nerfed to nothing in fel, in ragnarok online i played a sage, a very unfriendly class as far as solo ability, and in diablo 2 i've made an absolutely ridiculous amount of unorthadox character skill builds.....including a thorns conversion pally LATER than 1.10...and in HC....everyone said I would die but I atleast made it to 35 playing it safe until I got bored with his extrememly slow killing speed.:smileysad:</P> <P>But in actuallity I chose coercer because when EQ2 came out I was playing a low level enchanter in EQ1 and while my first character was going to be a high elven warlock that betrayed qeynos, I got sick of the qeynos "nice" feeling and accidentally went PAST the betray level mark....so /roll and decided to try melee....being a fan of martial arts but not wanting to be a goody two shoes I went for a bruiser...then I played an erudite brawler to 18 when I go in a guild with almost no mages....thinking I was doing my part I made a gnome named psychokinesis and got to...i don't remember...between 15-18....then deleted him after deciding I wanted to focus on my brawler and having an alt was a distraction, then shortly after I quit EQ2 cause I thought I could get the same enjoyment from games that didn't cost monthly. :smileymad:</P> <P>I personally didn't and therefore am now back, I enjoyed my gnome chanter and since my brawler felt like I was being tossed back into the world I created a new character to get the feel of stepping back in graudally....I was gonna go with an iksar berserker but didn't feel they were evil enuff....I thought maybe an SK but they are more about religion and I'm not....I didn't want to do brawler again so I decided I would recreate a high elf to betray like my orginal plans, and make him a coercer like my original gnome.....it had...oh...not much to do with the unique part....if so I woulda continued my bruiser....most servers don't have many more brusiers than coercers.....toxx for instance 98 coercer vs like 154 bruiser....so, at about level 14 I was here on the forums and decided since I was already making the class and enjoying it so far I would do the experiment of seeing if I became addicted to such complaints as well.</P> <P>Oh, and if you go ahead and read my posts I have never once said this class doesn't need help and in many of my posts including my post called "Idea is a funny word" I mentioned several of my own ideas that I felt were improvements....as well as openly encouraging everyone else here to add their own ideas....but nice try, u've obviously paid attention to a few of my posts....just not all of them.:smileyindifferent: Don't forget, telling them (there only real choice) to wait is not saying the class is fine.</P> <P>Also, I thought it was interesting that someone cared enuff to analyze me...but keep in mind most of my posts are oriented towards the light at the end of the tunnel....its not my fault that when some people hear good news they love to bash me or say its false or just disregard it in general, the coercer has been the least played almost since release so many here knew it was least played as well, and knew many of its problems too. Many here knew exactly what they were getting in to. I am merely trying to hold up a candle in a very, very dark room, I can not speak for those trying to blow it out. :smileysurprised:</P> <P>Thanks for not saying anything directly insulting tho...it encourages others to flame :smileywink:</P>

Azamien-Dermorate
06-07-2005, 08:05 PM
<P>It was never my intent to flame or pass judgement on you Krelf,  and I freely admit to not have having read every post of yours (or of anyone's).  When someone is well spoken enough to make me think about what I read, even if I dont agree with them on that particular instance, I try and figure out where thier point of view is.  This helps me understand, posters motiviations and goals a little better.  When I read enough posts from those people I form my opinion on thier point of view on particular game related topics, based on what I have read.   I am not a Psychologist so my opinion shouldnt be weighed with any substance. </P> <P>Anyways who's next?  Tanatus?? /JK LOL :smileytongue:</P>

Tanatus
06-07-2005, 08:06 PM
<P>Let me put it thi way ....</P> <P>SOE notoriously known for make from very [Removed for Content] classes true powerhouse.... Everyone who played EQ1 long enouth know this... As it stands now coercer at very buttom of the food chain the less ppl playing it actively the higher chance that SOE make this class godly powerfull and THAT is the only reason why anyone in sane mind should level up coercer to lvl50</P>

Krelfeari
06-09-2005, 07:52 AM
<DIV>I dissagree Demorate, i think everyones opinion should be weighed with substance even if its a dog trainer making speculation on rocket science...not all who have revolutionized a field were scientists in said fields.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I particularly run into this problem when I state some opnion about coercers like my opinion that we should all just wait....many think I should shut up since i am only in the 20's, or that my opinions on the class don't matter, its sad really.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keep in mind tho I found no offense in ur analytical views of my reasons for posting....its always cool to hear someones thoughts on myself, i enjoyed reading it, thanks.</DIV>

Chath
06-10-2005, 03:11 AM
<DIV>Your analogy could use some work, Krelfearius.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If that dog trainer were making speculation on rocket science to a rocket scientist who had already proven the speculation in question to be faulty, you might better understand why some of the 50's are impatient with you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's not like you've discovered cold fusion and proven it and no one will listen to you.  It's like you're insisting that cold fusion must be possible following some formula you found on the Internet, and the physicists who have tried that formula many times and found no evidence of cold fusion or energy production <EM>at all</EM> are telling you it doesn't work, <EM>showing you that it doesn't work</EM>, and you're still insisting that it does.  So... now you're going to perform the experiment yourself and find out.  Excellent.  That part, at least, is your saving grace.  In the meantime, the rest of it is still just speculation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about looking at it another way.  If you're male, the closest you might ever come to understanding childbirth is gall stones or kidney stones.  Even then, the scale is way off, and you simply lack the capacity to understand what it's like, not having gone through it.  The moment you start trying to pontificate on childbirth to a mother who did it <EM>au naturel</EM>, you will find your credibility totally shot, because you clearly don't know what you're talking about but you seem to think you do.  You might "understand it intellectually", but you do not, will not understand it <EM>actually</EM> (unless, say, you were a woman in a past life and have very vivid recall or something, which I'm going to guess doesn't apply to you; whether it's possible or not then doesn't matter).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another possibility is going through basic training in the military.  Or being in a cult.  I could think of other things, but I think I've made the point sufficiently.  If you haven't done it, you don't know what it's like, and no amount of theorizing or pretending or thinking about it is going to change the fact that you really don't know until you've lived it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And so it is with the raid game at T5.  No, it's not the same level as childbirth in terms of lack of understanding --  you might be able to use other <EM>similar</EM> experiences to get an idea (like a gall stone or kidney stone versus actual childbirth, or your experiences in other MMORPG's), but unless you know, you don't.  Period.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You have some idea(s).  Congratulations.  We all have ideas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Chatham on <span class=date_text>06-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:06 PM</span>