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View Full Version : What's your issues Coercers?


TheWhiteRaid
06-02-2005, 04:54 AM
<DIV> <DIV>I am trying to compile issues from several different classes.   I wanted to hear in your own words what you chief issues are.</DIV></DIV>

Krelfeari
06-02-2005, 11:29 AM
<P>Currently, I think the most complaints center around...</P> <P>1. Low overall DPS at higher levels due to spells not scaled correctly.</P> <P>2. Higher level spells not effecting epic mobs.</P> <P>3. Charmed mobs gaining player buffs.</P> <P>4. Buff aggro.</P> <P>5. Charm lasting time (although not as often mentioned as the others)</P> <P>5. Buffs being close to worthless due to low amount of DPS contributed to auto-attack and power regen from alterior items.</P> <P>6. Worth mentioning, many here say its not Coercers but the game itself that actually makes us bad and that mostly not us, but the game mechanics need fixed to better allow us to be more useful. While this is not a direct problem with the Coercer class, I thought it was worth mentioning cause its an often heard complaint amongst these forums.</P> <P>All others are mostly slight variations or stipulations from the problems I mentioned. These are the ones I believe I see complained about the most tho and for the ones I missed, well believe me, the guys here at this forum could complain about how uncomfortable it is to have to hold briefcases full of free money...</P>

Orki who Pos
06-02-2005, 12:28 PM
<P>The main issue is that a coercer is currently mainly a crowd control class..</P> <P> </P> <P>And, who needs crowd control when a plate tank backed by a templar at lvl 40+ can tank several encounters at a time</P> <P> </P> <P>At lvl 50 with top gear a guardian can tank as many encounters at once as he feels like with a templar to heal.</P> <P>(There's a limit that only 5 encounters can be engaged at once)</P> <P> </P> <DIV>Oh.. and the coercer cannot control a meaningfull amount of mobs at those levels (1 encounter half the time +2 ^^ mobs at the most at once)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The issue does not appear till the game starts getting really broken post 37 where several classes gets significant game-breaking upgrades, and mobs turns into wimps.</DIV>

Krelfeari
06-02-2005, 12:56 PM
<DIV>elaboration on #6 me thinks...</DIV>

Nerj
06-02-2005, 03:20 PM
<P>Copied from Nibbles posting on it -- Since Nibbles as gotten tired of the wait and I believe has quit the game. Here is what I found</P> <P>When new issues arise, I will note the date of the addition and highlight the updates in yellow (modif par bleu pour être lisible sur fond blanc) with a date stamp.<BR><BR>*Please keep posts somewhat constructive and if you really like me, please post new issues in a similar format so I do not have to retype allot of stuff*<BR><BR>Spell Issues<BR><BR><BR>Level 18 – Breeze –<BR><BR>Level 33 – Refresh –<BR><BR>Level 46 – Clarity –<BR><BR>Issue: Currently, power regens on other players acts as a HoT (Heal over Time) spell and will draw aggro of mobs. With the increased duration of Breeze to 15 mins, it is almost assured that mobs will come after the coercer prior to anyone else.<BR><BR>Solution: Remove aggro due to persistent power regens cast by enchanters prior to combat. If cast during combat, apply some fixed amount of aggro to the cast.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 22 - Mesmerize -<BR><BR>Issue: Mesmerize works fine until you reach level 36/37 (prior to our level 38 upgrade). During levels 36/37, you will find yourself fighting many grouped mobs that are too high of level for the level 22 spell and leaves the coercer with no mezzing ability.<BR><BR>Solution: Increase level range for the level 22 mez to ~level 44 or give us another mesmerize upgrade between level 22 and 38 to help bridge the gap.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 30 - Bewilder –<BR><BR>Level 41 – Perplexity -<BR><BR>Issue: These spells are an upgrade to our level 18 stun spell. The level 18 stun spell has a fast cast time (1.0s) while bewilder takes (4.0s) to cast. Any stun that takes over (1.0s) is not effective for its true purpose of interrupting a spell or saving someone else from being attacked.<BR><BR>Solution: Decrease cast times to (1.0s) in line with level 18 spell.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 24 – Simple Minds –<BR><BR>Level 33 – Discomforting Gaze –<BR><BR>Level 50 – Demoralizing Gaze -<BR><BR>Issue: These are our AoE line of spells. Currently the damage output form these spells is extremely low (~80 at lvl 24, ~100 at lvl 33 and ~120 damage at lvl 50). Currently, priest classes have higher damage AoE spells than Coercers.<BR><BR>Solution: The damage needed to be put in line with that of summoners or even above summoners. If it would be in the vision of Coercers to have a niche in AoE DD spells or AoE DoT spells, that would give us a powerful line of spells to stand behind.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 25 – Terrible Awe –<BR><BR>Level 39 – Dreadful Awe -<BR><BR>Issue: This AoE mez line will only mez mobs in the same encounter and if any mob in that encounter is attacked, all mobs that are mezzed become active again. This may be as intended but the Max spell only lasts ~20 seconds and when the spell is up, you must wait 18 seconds to recast from the end of teh spell.<BR><BR>Solution: The purpose of this spell needs to be addressed. If the spell is meant for escape spell, then the enchanter should not be frozen once the spell is cast. If it is meant to be a mass Mez spell, then attacking a mob that is mezzed should not break other mezzes and coercer should be able to continue casting once spell is set off. Or - If all the above are correct in teh current form, the caster shuold be able to refresh the spell like other mezz's so he can keep it going longer than 20 seconds.<BR><BR><BR>Level 35 - Empathic link -<BR><BR>Level 49 - Synergetic link -<BR><BR>Issue: In its current state, this spell has a chance to proc when a player is hit (~20%). The spell then has to roll again against a resist of the mob which decreases its chances of landing even more. If everything works, the spell will hit for only 100 pts of damage.<BR><BR>Solution: A few options: a) Change the spell to have a chance to proc when a player hits the mob and not the other way around. b) Increase the damage output of this spell to ~500 due to its rarity of going off. c) Increase the proc rate and do not let any mob (epic or not) resist the spell.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 36 - Forced Hesitation-<BR><BR>Level 47 – Fatal Hesitation -<BR><BR>Issue 1: As an upgrade to Binding Light (root line), this spell should be useful but with the current casting timer of 3.0s, it takes too long to cast for effective use.<BR><BR>Issue 2: These 2 spells have a damage reducing effect on the mob while it is rooted. These 2 abilities do not mix for obvious reasons.<BR><BR>Solution: a) Make this a pure root line with no frills and reduce casting time to (1.0s) for effective use in battle. b) Create a 2nd line of spells which allow coercers to reduce standard melee damage of a mob<BR><BR>Issue 3: Since a patch in February, all root lines seem to be breaking at a much higher rate when casting on a mob.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 37 - Haruspex -<BR><BR>Issue: This is another line of AoE DD for coercers in that you cast on a creature and when it hits another player it has a chance (>3%) to go off. If it goes off, then the spell acts as a regular AoE DD spell and deals ~180 damage per mob at Master I.<BR><BR>Solution: Decrease the recast time on spell (currently 45 sec) so it can be used more than once per battle and/or increase the damage of this spell to something “special” in that even when cast, your not guaranteed it to go off before the mob dies.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 37 - Beguile -<BR><BR>Issue 1: Charmed mobs can still break encounters when fighting mobs within the same encounter and outside the main encounter<BR><BR>Solution: Straight forward bug<BR><BR>Issue 2: The spell has no difference between Adept 1 - Adept III - Master I<BR><BR>Solution: Increase duration and max level (e.g. +, and ++ mobs) with increased rank.<BR><BR>Issue 3: Upon charming a mob, other group members can no longer use "target nearest enemy key" which causes group issues.<BR><BR>Issue 4: Upon a pet breaking mez, pets retains all group buffs<BR><BR>Issue 5: Casting dispel arcane on a released pet effects group members (only needed due to issue #4 above)<BR><BR>Issue 6: No ability to view pet damage in chat windows (probably an issue for Summoners as well) and there is no indication that a pet has been charmed for other players when trying to fight groups of mobs.<BR><BR>Solution: When a pet becomes charmed, change the name to XXX (caster’s pet) and log this information in the chat window.<BR><BR>Issue 7: The duration of charm is very short for the amount of work it takes to retarget, cast attack, ect.<BR><BR>Solution: Allot of testing needs to happen but see what changes would occurr if you increased charm length to 1 min, 10 mins, ect. Maybe shape the post 37 coercer into more of a summoner type class with pets figured in...<BR><BR>Issue 8: When you charm a mob it gains the buffs of the grp. When the charm ends (duration or release) it still keeps these buffs - thus making a harder mob. The additional part is that if you dispell the mob to remove the buffs - it removes the buffs from the group as well (even though the mob is no longer 'in' the group)</P> <P><BR><BR>Level 38 – Annoying Demeanor -<BR><BR>Issue: This spell should increase hate generation on the target it is cast though all testing and real world combat shows it not to have any real effect.<BR><BR>Solution: Possibly lose this line of spell completely and replace with other suggestions in this thread or give the spell some additional qualities.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 39 – Ego Blast -<BR><BR>Issue: This DD spell has a chance to briefly root and opponent which is not of any real use to coercers and it has one of the worst power/damage ratio around.<BR><BR>Solution: Increase the damage on this spell and leave power consumption alone to be in line with other mage spells of similar level.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 42 - Tyrannical Mind -<BR><BR>Issue: This spell is labeled as an upgrade to our level 28 damage spell. At level 42, the amount of damage this spell creates severely lacks compared to other<BR><BR>Solution: Increase the damage output to be equal to that of other casters. If Coercers are “Masters of the Mind” then the mind spell should do equal damage along the lines of Wizards and their Fire/Ice spells.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 46 – Devouring Thoughts -<BR><BR>Issue: The spell is intended to give power back to the group at the cost of the mob it is cast upon yet in its current state, it takes more power to cast than it replenishes rendering it next to useless.<BR><BR>Solution: Increase the regeneration rate/effect to an acceptable level.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 48 – Velocity -<BR><BR>Issue: This is our highest level haste line and yet all other classes (fighters, priests, ect) have a higher %increase in haste for similar levels.<BR><BR>Solution: Increase haste % to be on par with other classes or give coercers a niche in that our haste effects the recycle time of special attacks so we can haste in a different manner.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Level 50 – Psychic Wall -<BR><BR>Issue: This spell is supposed to be an AoE stun spell. At 50, most mobs you encounter are “epic” mobs yet this spell will not affect them.<BR><BR>Solution: Allow this spell to land and stun epic mobs.<BR><BR>Game Play Issues<BR><BR><BR>Damage Output -<BR><BR>Issue: As noted in many of the spell issues, damage output for our class lags behind that of other mages on all levels. We can even go as far to say that we are on par with other priest classes for damage post level 35.<BR><BR>Solution: Determine what our “key role” in damage should be. Should we be masters of DD AoE spells or DoT AOE Spells or DD Mind Spells? Once that determination is made, change a line of spells to make us the “best” in that area.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Spell Upgrades (Adept -> Master) -<BR><BR>Issue: At all levels, upgrading spells from App I to Adept I to Adept III has no effect on the spells ability. Example - Adept I Beguile lasts 36 sec and has a 0-1% chance of working and Adept III has the exact same effect. This can be seen in other spell lines too.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Maintained Spell Window Maxing out -<BR><BR>Issue: Currently, the maintained spell window maxs out at 12 buffs. With coercers and all casting classes, we need to have the ability to see more than 12 buffs so we can track the timers in combat.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Root/Teleport Bug -<BR><BR>Issue: Currently there is a root/teleport bug in game. Sometimes you root the mob and it teleports to you. From this point forward it continues to teleport to you regardless of what you cast...roots, stuns, mezzes.<BR><BR><BR><BR>"Fizzing" Spells -<BR><BR>Issue: Some spells that are white and below still fizzle when cast.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Intelligence Issues -<BR><BR>Issue: In its current state, the primary stat for all casters is Int which affects the power pool. Increasing intelligence only gives us small amounts of power (+50 int might give 1 more spell cast). With other classes, stats affect damage or damage mitigation. Logically, casters with higher int should do more damage with each spell cast.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Spell Level Caps -<BR><BR>Issue: Coercers are limited in nuking grays to finish quests due to spells being "too powerful". Remove caps for casting a spell on a lower level mob. A mob is too powerful is fine... but a mob is too weak is a bad excuse for not being able to cast a spell. It should not affect game play as you can not receive exp or loot from such mob.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Pet Classes & Enchanters -<BR><BR>Issue: This is more from the pet class side but it effects enchanters. We can not mez an opponent beating on a pet class as teh pet will keep attacking the mob and break the mez. Give pet classes a /pet laydown command so that the pet will not attack a mob no matter what.<BR><BR>"Nice to Haves"<BR><BR><BR>Mezzing Ability -<BR><BR>- Show who breaks mez in a group encounter. Something similar to message for when person breaks a Heroic Opportunity<BR><BR><BR><BR>Pet Filter -<BR><BR>- Create a filter under chat options/combat to allow players to filter out your pet’s damage separately. Most people turn off other people’s damage as it causes too much spam to be of any use but when you do this, you also turn off your pets damage</P> <DIV> <P>Also missing joint Beguile - Dreadfull Awe bug...</P> <P>If by some misfortune you will have Beguile and Dreadfull Awe active both in same it will deadlock Dreadfull Awe in no-cast mode untill you log out</P></DIV>

Signal9
06-02-2005, 04:54 PM
<DIV>Nibbles post was the most up to date as of his last posting.  It's probably the most cogent collection of the specific issues with the individual spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krelf also generalizes our issues fairly well, although I'm having a hard time not responding to his snarks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krelf, I believe you will learn soon, if you keep trying to level your Coercer.  But at the moment, you're eating a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sandwich, and complimenting the chef on the consistency.  :smileysurprised:</DIV>

Verdemy
06-02-2005, 09:52 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Signal9 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Nibbles post was the most up to date as of his last posting.  It's probably the most cogent collection of the specific issues with the individual spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krelf also generalizes our issues fairly well, although I'm having a hard time not responding to his snarks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Krelf, I believe you will learn soon, if you keep trying to level your Coercer.  But at the moment, you're eating a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sandwich, and complimenting the chef on the consistency.  :smileysurprised:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You missing K's point,  which is only unsatisfiable, whining neurotics would send a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sandwich back to chef.......some (K)would eat it, order another and tease those suckers leaving the restaurant for being hungry when there is a yummy [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sandwich to eat!</P> <P>Myself?  I am just eating a little less of said sandwich-- as i haven't given up yet, but playing time has curtailed itself as the fun factor is nosediving in mid 40's...........  I am still hoping that they gonna put something else on the menu.........</P> <P>Ah, to be a 30 something Coercin stud again, those were the days.......but listen to Krelf, he's figured it all out (or figured all us malcontents out, rather) at his all of level 24, or whatever..........</P>

Tanatus
06-03-2005, 12:02 AM
<DIV>Issues?</DIV> <DIV>General things:</DIV> <DIV>None of primary coercer spell work on epic mobs - nada, zippo, zero</DIV> <DIV>DPS of coercer lowest among all classes</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

shwig
06-03-2005, 01:34 AM
Coercer stackability is horrendous too.  We can't even use our nuke if there's another coercer in the same raid. <div></div>

zuto0
06-03-2005, 07:13 AM
<P>you failed to mention our wonderful 10% slow</P> <P>=D</P> <P> </P>

kennyc
06-03-2005, 10:48 AM
<DIV>Level 39 – Dreadful Awe -<BR><BR>i always bugged after a few (9-10) cast of this spell , the spell icon jammed at re-cast stage , only can fix if i relog </DIV> <DIV>did any of you having the same problem ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>btw , all of our spell have [epic mobs exclude] is intensive ? or bugged? </DIV>

Signal9
06-03-2005, 09:15 PM
<DIV>I haven't used Dreadful Awe enough to get that to happen.  I may use it only 3-4 times in a night, and only when I'm grouped.  It's pointless to even attack a 'heroic' group of 2 greenies when solo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as the [excludes epics] qualifier, it's entirely deliberate.  Enchanters were too powerful at the upper levels in EQ, and they made sure not to repeat that here.  It's part of the problem with the class.  SoE won't make the needed changes for us to be viable, as it would let 10% of the enchanters go into God Mode.  </DIV>

Tanatus
06-03-2005, 09:30 PM
<DIV>Nah Dreadfull Awe brokes only in 1 condition...</DIV> <DIV>If you have active simutaniously 2 spells a) Biguile b) Dreadfull Awe ... Dreadfull Awe got jammed</DIV>