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Krelfeari
05-03-2005, 08:49 AM
<DIV>Hi, I'm currently playing a mage thats being remade in the class of my gnomish enchanter excpet this one is a high elf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am conducting a sort of experiment to see if becoming an enchanter and then a coercer will make me into a whining, sniveling, complaining baby. If it does then we've figured out the reason behind the plague of posts saying such things that get ninja'd and such.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't have a coercer so I can't say from experience wether they are good or bad. But what I can say is that saying things like "coercer sux" or "[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] is soe thinking" and other such comments are not going to get things changed at all for you. I realize some people who play the class have made strives to show intelligently that the Coercer class is unbalanced and I honestly must commend them on this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I look down on the ones who refuse to stop complaining. Whining never changed anything, ever. If anything it simply made those around you think you were born without a backbone. Nobody on the EQ2 Dev Team is going to come to the Coercer thread and look around thinking "Look at this thread where a guy has logs and parsed damage showing the enchanter sub classes to be unbalanced" and then look at the post that says "So in ending, DONT make a coercer, they SUCK and are extremely frustrating and boring." which is a quote from a genius named Liwendyll, good riddance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is ofcourse more but my point is that you could'nt use that argument to change someones mind if you were a master of the force. If anything is to be done it is going to take a concentrated effort thats intelligent and founded on facts, not opinions or single instances. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong, I don't have the answers and I can't solve the problems either but atleast I am not going to contribute to the reputation that coercers currently have on this forum of being not buff-bots but complaint-bots.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So in closing I just want to make sure I've stated that I do not intend to ever whine and complain about the class or even classes I play as it does nothing but lower others view of what type of person I am. If you find me on this forum complaining about the coercer class later, I will honestly delete the character regardless of level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/end rage mode</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

mckayormac
05-03-2005, 10:40 AM
first off your pretty odd. second MMORPG is all about balance. period .  we have a right to complain right now. so go away. because if you dont complain about ur classes problems, you should delete your character anyways. <div></div>

Ol'b
05-03-2005, 01:54 PM
<DIV>You can certianly classifly me as one of those people that complain .. I have said many things like "coercer sucks" or "dead class" and for good reason. You may disagree with my coercer opinions and thats fine, but..... Crying can work! It has already for wizzy's & Illusionest.... Believe me when i say , wizzy/warlock  definetly should be some of the best DPS in game .. Second or equal to assassins should be there place if u ask me.. Assassins are a little weak in DPS right now and offer harly any group utility but thats another story (and no i dont play an assassin)..  The problem is we dont have a very large player base ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Here is an example for you , before SOE nerfed minds eye we were the best power regen class in game.. I think once the first illusionest cought wind of this it took soe all of about a month to "correct" the problem .. Now not only are Illusionests the best power regeners but they are also, better mezzers, do the same amount of dps when you account for coercer lack of AOE dmg.. Not to mention that now i cant even invis my group.. I was using an exploit to invis my whole group for quite some time but i bet an illusionest soiled the beans =p .  My point here is with the amount of Illusionest playing game +  the fact they represent "the good side" aka sonys primary concern = will always be a better class to play.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WizzyWarlock were very comparable to enchanters , BEFORE they got a huge DPS upgrade.. Now it's simply not even an argument and  im ok with that, but.. The only reason i say that is because i play a warlock also. Solution is simple , you have to make enchanters uber , there needs to be more of them around... I mean COME ON they were super uber in eq1 for a reason! Almost every group had one, simmilar to healers.. Very few people want to just make sure everyone is breezed , mezz here debuff/stile there ..... YOU need to reward these classes for being buff bots , not punish ( cough* our level 50 spells SUCK! , a slap in the face i like to call'em) yes i know you can now use ae stun with ae mezz, got it thanks...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im sure your prolly reading this Mr.T and i like the joy i can sense in your posts about your 37 warlock , you pushed the envelope as a coercer and you seem to be doing the same with your warlock.   Good for you...</DIV>

Knightma
05-03-2005, 04:06 PM
<P>I wish you luck in your endeavor to become a Coercer.  I think that for the next few months you will find it very rewarding and enjoyable.  You will wonder why so many Coercers whine on these boards about how Coercers are unbalanced and need fixing.  I invite you to come back and share your views about your Coercer when you hit 50 and have played him/her at 50 for about a month.  I think that you might then better understand what many of these people on the boards were talking about.</P> <P>I'll only say this to defend my "whiny" cohorts, and it's a argument that has been stated by others before me.  If a Coercer is so fun and enjoyable to play and needs no huge fixes, why is it that a large number of Lvl 50 Coercers are playing an alt and not planning on going back to their Coercer?</P> <P>Again, good luck in your journey as a Coercer.</P> <P>Nyco Tine</P> <P>50 Coercer, Permafrost</P> <P>Retired.</P> <P> </P> <P>PS My alt is a Lvl 50 Dirge, I enjoy playing it, and I have no plans to go back to Coercer.</P>

Signal9
05-03-2005, 05:34 PM
<DIV>I wish you luck with the coercer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should be able to get to 20 within a week or so.  Give us some periodic reports.  I think those will be illuminating when you read back through them, and see just where the class play changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If nothing else, it will be a running commentary of the evolution of an enchie.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the flip side, though...  If you do start, you are not allowed to delete the character on the first whine.  Play him through at least 30-35 or higher.  You've already labeled many current (and former) Enchanters as 'whiny', so please do show us how to persevere.  (I'm not being snide, really.  But if you're willing to perform this experiment, please finish it, and have the testicular-fortitude to admit it, if those 'whiny' enchanters were right).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I look forward to hearing of your exploits in the future.</DIV>

Karde Shar
05-03-2005, 06:05 PM
<DIV>WHen constructive feedback and raw data are ignored and unaddressed, whining is the next option.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes, it does accomplish something.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cause whining soon turns to ...I'm gonna go play WOW now instead and cancelled accounts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That equals less revenue for EQ2 which in turn, equals a decreased ability to buy BMWs, which in turn leads to a realization that the whole project could be scrapped and people could lose jobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So no, I don't agree with your statement that whining never gets anything done.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its the squeaky wheel that gets fixed.  Period.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

M1A2Tankage
05-03-2005, 06:27 PM
<P>Man,</P> <P>I'd hate to loose my BMW.  Because i live in Germany, flying down the autobann is badd A..  I love doing 120 130mph just for Shi.. and giggles.  But, I digress.  </P> <P>My coercer is curently at 35 and yes, it could use a couple of changes.  It is true about the squeaky wheel thing.  When hard data is ignored and honest persistance to try to balance the class a little goes unheard, complaining is the only option.  Small example is the builders in zek needed to complete DFC access quest.  /petition after /petition after /bug after /bug and nothing was fixed about them.  They stayed non aggro and non attackable.  Go figure, so finally and nice nasty gram to SOE using the bleep words and hard time and WoW.  It got fixed.  Stinks that has to happen sometimes but hey, it finally got fixed.</P>

Chog
05-03-2005, 06:38 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Krelfearius wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whining never changed anything, ever. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You are so wrong, Krel. I have been playing this game since early in the beta, and whining works. It got my spells in beta completely reset. It cost my shaman his tiny little regen and my priest his tiny little ward. It got Wizards a big damage boost. It got all the nice heroic outdoor mobs changed to solo mobs. It got solo instances added to the little instanced dungeons that were added. It got shared XP debt altered so it is no longer apportioned fairly. I could go on and on, but you get the point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I'm not saying all those changes were bad. But they came about because people whined loudly and publicly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Zephyrus1
05-03-2005, 11:32 PM
Can we get progress reports at 20, 30, and then every level from 35-50?  It was about level 35 for me where things started to go down hill.

Krelfeari
05-04-2005, 02:35 AM
<P>Ok, this single post has gotten more attention than any post I've EVER made! It just goes to prove my point tho. Many people replied here to defend their ideals that the class is unbalanced. Which I really made no comment on. </P> <P>I stated clearly that I have no idea wether they are really unbalanced or not. I simply think they are an interesting class and so I plan to play one to see if I like it. I really enjoyed my enchanter b4 I deleted him. I did this because at the time my brawler was close to changing to bruiser and the guild I was in was about to do a raid that was for level 20+ so I decided to level my brawler exclusively. Not because I thought enchanter was bad but because I could'nt honestly keep myself from SOMETIMES logging onto him so as a final way to force myself to focus, I deleted him. I regret it and am now recreating him.</P> <P>To answer a few of you, yes I will glady post back often to say how it goes, like I said, this is an experiment! I think its really interesting that someone said don't delete if u finally whine but continue to play him! I could'nt help but smile when reading that.</P> <P>Also, I made the statement that "whining never changed anything ever" and some of u thought that was wrong. In response to ur responses about whining actually causing changes I would like to point out that in every case of problems u mentioned where whining changed them, there is a very good chance that someone made a factual report about it that did'nt include whining at all. </P> <P>Also, keep in mind that at this time there are very few coercers and that many of u posting here now have mentioned Alts. This alone shows SOE that many who don't like the Coercer still like this game and that not everyone dissapointed in the enchanter class suddenly decided to go to WOW. </P> <P>I think everyone that plays any online video game needs to realize that even the veterans of the online gaming field such as Everquest1-Ultima Online still have balance issues. While these issues with the Coercer might be more severe than others there is still never going to be a Perfect Game. EVER. </P> <P>To close, let me just ask you all for ur opinion with this last question...</P> <P> </P> <P>        If you decide to play the class in a game that many claim to be the "most useless", "most nerfed" or even "weakest" then does this make you brave or a fool?</P> <P> p.s. No right answer here, just give ur opinion. Also I would like to thank everyone for their insights and views on the topic. Just this many showing they have actually played a Coercer shows that the class is not by any means "dead".</P>

Bravnik
05-04-2005, 04:26 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Krelfearius wrote:<BR> <P>Ok, this single post has gotten more attention than any post I've EVER made! It just goes to prove my point tho. Many people replied here to defend their ideals that the class is unbalanced. Which I really made no comment on. </P> <P>I stated clearly that I have no idea wether they are really unbalanced or not. I simply think they are an interesting class and so I plan to play one to see if I like it. I really enjoyed my enchanter b4 I deleted him. I did this because at the time my brawler was close to changing to bruiser and the guild I was in was about to do a raid that was for level 20+ so I decided to level my brawler exclusively. Not because I thought enchanter was bad but because I could'nt honestly keep myself from SOMETIMES logging onto him so as a final way to force myself to focus, I deleted him. I regret it and am now recreating him.</P> <P>To answer a few of you, yes I will glady post back often to say how it goes, like I said, this is an experiment! I think its really interesting that someone said don't delete if u finally whine but continue to play him! I could'nt help but smile when reading that.</P> <P>Also, I made the statement that "whining never changed anything ever" and some of u thought that was wrong. In response to ur responses about whining actually causing changes I would like to point out that in every case of problems u mentioned where whining changed them, there is a very good chance that someone made a factual report about it that did'nt include whining at all. </P> <P>Also, keep in mind that at this time there are very few coercers and that many of u posting here now have mentioned Alts. This alone shows SOE that many who don't like the Coercer still like this game and that not everyone dissapointed in the enchanter class suddenly decided to go to WOW. </P> <P>I think everyone that plays any online video game needs to realize that even the veterans of the online gaming field such as Everquest1-Ultima Online still have balance issues. While these issues with the Coercer might be more severe than others there is still never going to be a Perfect Game. EVER. </P> <P>To close, let me just ask you all for ur opinion with this last question...</P> <P> </P> <P>        <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>If you decide to play the class in a game that many claim to be the "most useless", "most nerfed" or even "weakest" then does this make you brave or a fool?</FONT></STRONG></P> <P> p.s. No right answer here, just give ur opinion. Also I would like to thank everyone for their insights and views on the topic. Just this many showing they have actually played a Coercer shows that the class is not by any means "dead".</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Makes you smart, as SOE has a history of takeing the most underplayed class in a game and making it uber. Take the Beastlords in EQ. They suxored so bad that only a couple people played them past 45 on any server and the uber raiding guilds only allowed one in just so loot didn't rot. Now they are one of the most played classes in the game.</P> <P>I, however, play my Coercer because I have a lot invested in her. But I do NOT play her fulltime anymore. I play my ALT when I can get a group or I run around and harvest. I have not played her to level from 45 or so.<BR></P>

Tanatus
05-04-2005, 09:22 AM
<DIV>Beastlords still sucks compare to necros .... lol...</DIV> <DIV>But truth to be told once class become least played class in game (like now coercer and numbers are falling skyrocket) major boost occure...</DIV> <DIV>Its happend with rogues back in 99, it happend with wizards in 2001. it happend with necros in 2002 in EQ1 but only after class became extinct... Little problem thou ... for necros in EQ1 took halth year and 19 patches to nerf em to dust down to lvl of twich-[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and it took only 3 years to fix things that been broken... I am kinda hope it wont be a case for coercer but we never know</DIV>

Magool
05-04-2005, 10:51 AM
<DIV>I agree Tanatus ,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also happened to rangers in eq1 after alot gave the game away (including myself around lvl 56),</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Magool</DIV> <DIV>25 coercer</DIV> <DIV>Neriak</DIV>

Sekhau
05-04-2005, 07:37 PM
<DIV> <HR>  Krelfearius wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you decide to play the class in a game that many claim to be the "most useless", "most nerfed" or even "weakest" then does this make you brave or a fool?</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Neither, actually.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People play what they want to play, otherwise they wouldn't decide to play it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The act of deciding is based on criteria solely relative to the person doing the deciding.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as a side note, a person can be both Brave AND Foolish, instead of one OR the other</DIV> <DIV>           ( qualities I've found most prevelant in Main Tanks that pull after the healer has said, /g afk bio! )</DIV>

Manusra
05-12-2005, 07:10 AM
<DIV>Whining about whiners is Whining. Do you really think your going to lecture or give advise to people on a forums and things are going to change? People are whining because they are angry is the bottom line. Even though I agree with you that whining too much is not good, your whining yourself. If you are really concerned about the class then go ahead and play it proivde contrsuctive feedback to the forums and SoE through email and hope for the best. Ignore whiners, people on the forums get respect from thier posts and people who just always wine usualy end up getting ignored anyway. People who whine about whiners just get flamed to death :smileywink:</DIV>

Krelfeari
05-13-2005, 08:31 AM
<DIV>sometimes, when things get really ugly, someone has to hold up a mirror.</DIV>