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Azmode
04-14-2005, 02:40 PM
<DIV>This is the only thing I can find about Coercers</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P><STRONG>Coercer changes:</STRONG></P> <P>- Perplexity can no longer be interrupted and its casting time has been reduced.</P> <P>- The Power of Suggestion line of spells no longer stacks with Gift of the Magi, as they are upgrades to this spell.</P> <P> </P> <P>Where are the promised fixes?  I hope i missed something, but I was expecting like TONS Of Coercer fixes.     Grrrrrrr</P></DIV>

Scally W
04-14-2005, 02:53 PM
Yeh, what happened to the part about our damage getting upgraded?  How about all the other spells that needed fixing?  I'm hoping this is a 2 part patch message and he just hasn't finished writing the second part.

Dro
04-14-2005, 02:55 PM
<P>You missed the Beguile change</P> <P>"Charmed creatues will no longer break encounters" ...</P> <P>You forgot all the indirect changes:</P> <P>Parry change</P> <P>Dodge change</P> <P>Mitigation/Avoidance change</P> <P>Light Armor change</P> <P>New Hard Caps</P> <P>Cedar Wand Stats</P> <P>Item use levels on Sanctum of Fear quest rewards</P> <P>Can't hail while invis</P> <P>I think that's all that will directly impact us.</P> <P>Edit: this post was intended to highlight the other major (and minor) changes that will affect the way that we play the game. No they are not benefits, Most are nerfs.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Droo2 on <span class=date_text>04-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:28 PM</span>

Signal9
04-14-2005, 05:50 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Droo2 wrote:<BR> <P>You missed the Beguile change</P> <P>"Charmed creatues will no longer break encounters" ...</P> <P>You forgot all the indirect changes:</P> <P>Parry change</P> <P>Dodge change</P> <P>Mitigation/Avoidance change</P> <P>Light Armor change</P> <P>New Hard Caps</P> <P>Cedar Wand Stats</P> <P>Item use levels on Sanctum of Fear quest rewards</P> <P>Can't hail while invis</P> <P>I think that's all that will directly impact us.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Charm changes:  Maybe, we'll see how it works for people, and decide then.</P> <P>Parry changes:  Joy.  No more solo for me, it seems.  Green solo-mobs aren't worth the time, and blues+ will murder me.</P> <P>Dodge/Avoidance change:  Doesn't appear to be of a lot of help.  May mitigate some loss of parry. Going all +Agi may help.</P> <P>Mitigation change: Surely you jest?  Silk will still stop a sword or mace like silk always has.  I'm currently at 18.4%, I don't think it'll get higher after the change.</P> <P>Hard caps:  Our defenses were already hard-capped, no effect to us, really.</P> <P>Cedar wand stats:  Ok, it'll help a bit.  What is the real value of stats there to us, though?</P> <P>Items in SoF: Affects no-one under 40.   Non-issue to me at this time.</P> <P>Hailing while Invis:  This will make some quests more interesting.  No benefit to us at all, not really Coercer related at all.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>I'm not seeing a whole lot that does more than tangentially touch on Coercers, and even fewer of those that will have welcomed results.  Sony is scratching us behind the ear with one hand, and giving us the hack-a-pick with the other.<BR></P>

Nibbl
04-14-2005, 06:11 PM
<P>Overall, we have 4 fixs/updates for our class in teh 1st revision of the notes: I highlighted them in green on the main board post:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=34176" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=34176</A></P> <P>3 Items we asked for were addressed and 1 item that was mentioend in another post which I never updated was addressed. Not great, but we atleast got some attention here. Also, if the effectiveness of charm is increased (which I suspect/hope it will be), the new pet controls will directly effect our class too.</P> <P> </P> <P>Overall, getting some broken items straight was a good step #1, now onto issues 4 through 52!</P> <P> </P> <P>Also, if we can keep an intrest in the main thread going, it would help... I am not saying that I have been bumping it myself recenlty, but I have tried to keep it near the top as much as possible with some additional feedback each post. Any further comments on changes would be great if we could post under that thread too so continue our crusdae for a playable class!</P> <p>Message Edited by Nibbles on <span class=date_text>04-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:13 AM</span>

Tanatus
04-14-2005, 07:42 PM
<DIV>People what are you smoking we having MASSIVE nerf incoming what fixes you are talking about? Who the hell used Perplexity anyway? Who care's about cedar wands? was plently items around with similar or better stats. Inability to hail in invis mode pretty much screw us on doing many many quests...</DIV> <DIV>Look </DIV> <DIV>a) we have damage mitingation REDUCED for us 3X - raid buffed I have a little over 30% after LU#7 patch I will be hard capped by 10% as VLA user ... REALLY sweet right?</DIV> <DIV>b) because parry no longer work for mages and priest we'll lose about 20% of our damage avoidance as well ... BEAUTIFULL</DIV> <DIV>c) There is no what so ever DPS changes, more over those changes been even removed for any close plans</DIV> <DIV>LU#7 - damage avoidance/mitingation nerf, LU#8 froglocks, LU#9 scouts ...  JOY</DIV>

Scally W
04-14-2005, 08:03 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>People what are you smoking we having MASSIVE nerf incoming what fixes you are talking about? Who the hell used Perplexity anyway? Who care's about cedar wands? was plently items around with similar or better stats. Inability to hail in invis mode pretty much screw us on doing many many quests...</DIV> <DIV>Look</DIV> <DIV>a) we have damage mitingation REDUCED for us 3X - raid buffed I have a little over 30% after LU#7 patch I will be hard capped by 10% as VLA user ... REALLY sweet right?</DIV> <DIV>b) because parry no longer work for mages and priest we'll lose about 20% of our damage avoidance as well ... BEAUTIFULL</DIV> <DIV>c) There is no what so ever DPS changes, more over those changes been even removed for any close plans</DIV> <DIV>LU#7 - damage avoidance/mitingation nerf, LU#8 froglocks, LU#9 scouts ...  JOY</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>We make up 1% or less of the total server population... They're going for the low hanging fruit.  I'm convinced that this title is going to faceplant... people don't like these kind of dramatic changes every two weeks.  It's very obvious at this point that this was rushed into production and this will be a hard lesson for SOE when the crown gets passed to another company for MMORPG King.  For me it's less and less of a class issue and more and more of a design and management issue.  Which is to say I am thoroughly losing faith in SOE to provide me with a reasonable entertainment source in this genre. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Been reading up on Vanguard more and more... Losing Brad may have been a very, very bad thing for SOE.  From what they are publishing, it sound like they still understand the importance of a game that requires challenge and skill.  Brad still puts out very savvy posts on what it takes to balance a game and tune it for rewarding skillful strategic play.  SOE is pursuing the Playstation crossovers on this title and it looks like it isn't going to fly.  I think my time here is coming to an end very shortly folks.  I'm looking forward to the cancellation survey some days more than I am playing the game.</DIV>

Icewolf99
04-14-2005, 08:32 PM
I see a few small fixes and a massive nerf to soloing.  Basicly what little we could solo will be totally gone.   Coercers will be group only play after that patch, even greens will beat us up with no parry and the other defense and armor nerfs (if you can get a group, which i usually have to beg for).   I hate the person who told me that the coercer would be a great class to play, so much for listening to "experinced" players.  I was going to make a necro or wizard, man did i ever screw up. <div></div>

Gilbert
04-14-2005, 09:00 PM
<P>I'm not sure what you guys are talking about for solo.  I still solo.  I solo the level 47/48 bears in Everfrost and the level 45 spiders as well.  It seems my ability to do will be reduced with this upcoming patch though.  I'm not looking forward to it.</P> <P>Gilbertus <Monolith></P> <P>45 Coercer</P> <P>Steamfont</P>

Verdemy
04-14-2005, 09:19 PM
<P>Does anybody think that soe gives a rat's *$%#&! about the coercer class??   If so, I'd love to hear why.</P> <P>After all of the howling and screeching about our inequities which are obvious and clear to anyone who plays a coercer (Read: none of the Devs), and the promises to fix dps among other issues, this is all we get: a few bones and several nerfs?!?!?   </P> <P>I don't feel like rehashing all of this crap to show why i'm frustrated  with SOE's ineptness.  I just want to be a voice expressing my dissatisfaction with them on the off chance they actually read this forum, which i sort of doubt.  </P> <P>SOE : BUY A CLUE, please !</P> <P> </P>

Ogrelicio
04-14-2005, 09:54 PM
<P>At 39 it's become apparent there are 3 classes to this game: Tanks/Healers/DPS.  There's really no need for anything else.  I read thread after thread about my utility and what I bring to a group, but you know what?  I rarely mez anything anymore.  After all, what's the point of mitigating when the tank can take it and the healer isnt breaking a sweat?  The only other thing I have is power regen which will be made more or less obsolete by 50.</P> <P>With game mechanics as they are, I would trade everything for damage right now.  I soooo wish I had went ahead and went with a warlock.</P>

Knightma
04-14-2005, 10:11 PM
<P>Notes on the changes on the Test Server.</P> <P> </P> <P>Perplexity has indeed has its casting time lowered....to 3 seconds.</P> <P>Our Mitigation seems to be hardcapped at 20%.</P> <P>I have not had a chance to do any soloing on the test server as of yet, I'll let you know if I see any signifcant changes in our ability/inability to effectively solo.</P> <P>Nyco Tine</P> <P>50 Coercer, Permafrost</P> <P>Retired</P> <P>(And yes the Developers copied over my 50 coercer to the Test Server as part of my guild testing the Bloodlines.)</P>

Icewolf99
04-14-2005, 10:22 PM
I'd give anything to be able to trade my level 33 coercer for a level 33 warlock or necro.   I just can't see putting all that time into leveling another mage type to 33.   I'll prob just delete him and maybe check out WoW.   I dont have the time to start over and do all the same things again to get to level 33.   I was stupid to pick this class since I really like to solo alot, but I was told by all the EQ1 guys that this class was an awsome soloing class,,,,, welcome to EQ2. <div></div>

Gilbert
04-14-2005, 10:43 PM
<P>The Enchanter was god-like in EQ1.  I guess they decided to make them the exact opposite in EQ2.  I mostly picked this class because I wanted to have the class that could actually solo in EQ2.  (I played a rogue to level 70 in EQ1) Charm being the number 1 factor of picking this class.</P> <P>It seems since fighters were gimped for soloing they received a nice upgrade in EQ2 and wizards had it hard for the first couple years they were fixed first.  I feel bad for the #1 Coercer on any server.  Best of the worst.  That said I'll keep levelling my Warlock and hope something positive happens for my Coercer.</P> <P>Gilbertus <Monolith></P> <P>45 Coercer</P> <P>Steamfont</P>

Daffid011
04-14-2005, 11:51 PM
<span><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote: <div>a) we have damage mitingation REDUCED for us 3X - raid buffed I have a little over 30% after LU#7 patch I will be hard capped by 10% as VLA user ... REALLY sweet right?</div> b) because parry no longer work for mages and priest we'll lose about 20% of our damage avoidance as well ... BEAUTIFULL <hr></blockquote>Self buffed I have 17.5% mitigation and 44.3% avoidance. Your drama queen tactics and misinformation do not help the people who really want a meaningful discussion.  Cheers, </span><div></div>

Nibbl
04-15-2005, 12:46 AM
Daff... are you playing on Test? These changes are only live there atm...

Tanatus
04-15-2005, 01:14 AM
<P>Well Daffi all I can say you gear sucks .... really is</P> <P>I am medium quality gear for lvl 50 (nothing fabled but everything legendary save few jewels) - my mitingation self buffed 24.1%, avoidance 54.2% .....</P> <P>So as it looks if you have crap gear lik Daffind011 you wont notice any difference.. but everyone who bothered get gear above ground generic lvl pretty screwed </P> <P>Plus my fried you havent mention what your stat will be AFTER LU#7 go on test</P>

Oghi
04-15-2005, 05:19 AM
Guys.. Read Daffodil's sig.

Daffid011
04-15-2005, 05:43 AM
<span><blockquote><hr>Tanatus wrote:<p>Well Daffi all I can say you gear sucks .... really is</p> <p>I am medium quality gear for lvl 50 (nothing fabled but everything legendary save few jewels) - my mitingation self buffed 24.1%, avoidance 54.2% .....</p> <p>So as it looks if you have crap gear lik Daffind011 you wont notice any difference.. but everyone who bothered get gear above ground generic lvl pretty screwed </p> <p>Plus my fried you havent mention what your stat will be AFTER LU#7 go on test</p> <hr></blockquote>Just for you Tanatus, <font size="5"><b><font color="#ff0033">I PLAY ON TEST...</font> </b></font></span><span>Which means those are my stats from live update #7 as of today.    Yes my gear does suck which only means those numbers could be much higher for the average player.  It is all about handcrafterd quality at best, just showing you to be even more off base with your dramatics. So please stop trying to incite people just because you are bitter or disillusioned.  You used to post useful infromation, what happened to you? </span><span><font size="5"><b> </b></font></span><div></div>

Rakn
04-15-2005, 06:29 AM
arg got sk to 49 and wasnt happy so made a new char to get to 50 and play currently lvl 40coercer ,why didnt i just pick a class the devs actually play <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> half of my levels have probably been made soloing because i can be lfg for hours when theres some illusionists online ,now i wont even have the option to solo or it will probably be so bad that the gains in exp will be to slow for me to want to play. atleast my guild only has 1 other coercer and 1 illusionist so i will still be wanted on raids for the time beeing even if its just for haste buff unless the illusionist isnt online  lol <div></div>

God_of_Avalon
04-15-2005, 11:12 AM
<DIV>LOL, and I thought life as an illusionist was bad.</DIV>

Gilbert
04-15-2005, 05:58 PM
<P>I caught this in the priest balancing thread:</P> <P>I  posted this several times already, but let me do so again to be clear: <STRONG><FONT color=#ffffcc>The combat changes currently on Test will not be part of Live Update #7.</FONT></STRONG> Combat will remain the way it currently is on the live servers until we can also introduce additional spell changes, including adjusting the healing and damage numbers.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Look, I want healing to be balanced too, and <STRONG>I want the other mages to get attention </STRONG>(and yes, scouts too). I talk about it every single day to Cao, to Scott, to the mechanics guys, and various random people I corner in the hallways. I would love to be able to snap my fingers and have everything be done, but it isn't that simple.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MMOs are complex things. Every change you make touches something else, and when you peel back the layers of a significant change you find other things that are affected.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The changes to defense are necessary to keep the game from becoming trivial. We want to preserve the challenging aspects of gameplay, because an easy game ultimately becomes boring. We want soloing to be fun, grouping to be fun, and raiding to be fun. None of those things are fun if they don't present a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are invariably complaints when we change something about the game to make it easier to understand or more accessible in some way. "Stop dumbing it down, SOE!" But when we make changes to increase the things we feel should be challenging--like combat and raiding--we hear "You're making the game too hard!" The truth is that people don't like change, at least when they don't see a direct and quantifiable benefit from it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The changes to combat are necessary for the long-term health of the game. They may not be immediately popular, because in general you don't see a lot of posts saying "Woohoo, I get hit more!!!" But that doesn't mean they don't need to be made.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As part of this, we are also looking at the damage that NPCs do. After all, if NPCs can hit more often, we need to take a close look at what they're hitting for. And if NPC damage changes, it is a natural conclusion that we need to look at the efficiency of healing. Since that may need adjusting too, it wouldn't do a lot of good to spend time introducing balance changes now only to find we should redo them in a month.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We're also looking at ways to streamline the spell system itself. It has a lot of complexity because spells have several ways they can increase in potency, and it causes odd situations in how upgrades happen. We'd catch bugs and inequalities across tiers a lot sooner if we make some programmatic changes rather than adjusting data time and time again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These aren't easy changes, and they can't be done quickly if they're going to be done right. They will go live when we're satisfied that they achieve our goal of making the game stronger and more fun.</DIV> <P>===========================<BR>Moorgard<BR>EverQuest II Community Guy</P>

Orki who Pos
04-15-2005, 06:14 PM
<P>Hint for moorgard..</P> <P> </P> <P>there are 4x3 classes, with roughly 50 spells each.</P> <P> </P> <P>This is less than 600 spells.</P> <P> </P> <P>Without trying hard, even i could do a quick check of 50 spells a day without a developer login.</P> <P>This is maximum 12 days of work, for one man. - If this takes a week to automate, dont fuggin do it.</P> <P> </P> <P>The problems are so fuggin big, and glaring you in the face (lvl 40+ area damage spells doing the same as lvl 10 damage spells) that you cant say it's a suprise..</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><FONT size=4>Basically, dont buy it, and if anyone does, i have a bridge for sale.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=5></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=5>Also i can get you Australia cheap if you pay in advance.</FONT></P>