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View Full Version : 03-21-05 Live update Coercer Changes -Undocumented-


Erow
03-23-2005, 12:26 PM
<DIV>To whom this reaches:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know there is a lot of discussion going on at the moment about the enchanter class. I would like to present a couple of things i've been thinking about and some concerns I have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the last patch (3-21-05), some items were changed that were not documented.</DIV> <DIV><BR>1) Buffs -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    - Magi's Shielding & Basten's Rune of Surety - Timers don't reset, no longer stack<BR>    - Instigation, Exhortation & Power of Suggestion - Timers don't reset, no longer stack<BR>    - Signet of Realization, Signet of Insight & Signet of Intuition - no longer stack</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why give us 5 concentration slots if we can only use 3? I used to be able to double up a couple of buffs from the same catagory (like Magi's Shielding and Basten's Rune of Surety) to use up the 2 extra concentration slots. The other buffs just use up a concentration slot, but don't provide any benefit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No mention was made in the notes about any change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Invis -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    -Timers don't reset on Disregard and Ignore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before the patch (3-21-05), I could cast *Disregard* (lvl 47 spell) and *Ignore* (lvl 32 spell) on two different targets and have both people invisible at the same time.  Whether it was someone in my group and I, or two other people in my group. Reguardless, they are seperate spells and could be used at the same time. Now, I have one invis, whether i choose to use my better one, Disregard, or my weaker on, Ignore. They share the same recast timer, which after being cast once is none.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> If this is an intended change, please say so. The last patch had no information about coercer spell modifications.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Haste -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    - Recast timer doesn't reset.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So i have to cancel my haste buff, wait for the gem to refresh before I can recast. More of an annoyance than anything else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again. No mention of any change in the patch notes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please understand, I really enjoy this game, but maybe there is a reason there are only 10 Coercers on Innothule over lvl 40.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for your time<BR></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Erowen on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:30 PM</span>

Nerj
03-23-2005, 03:21 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Erowen wrote:<BR> <DIV>To whom this reaches:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know there is a lot of discussion going on at the moment about the enchanter class. I would like to present a couple of things i've been thinking about and some concerns I have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the last patch (3-21-05), some items were changed that were not documented.</DIV> <DIV><BR>1) Buffs -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    - Magi's Shielding & Basten's Rune of Surety - Timers don't reset, no longer stack<BR>    - Instigation, Exhortation & Power of Suggestion - Timers don't reset, no longer stack<BR>    - Signet of Realization, Signet of Insight & Signet of Intuition - no longer stack</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why give us 5 concentration slots if we can only use 3? I used to be able to double up a couple of buffs from the same catagory (like Magi's Shielding and Basten's Rune of Surety) to use up the 2 extra concentration slots. The other buffs just use up a concentration slot, but don't provide any benefit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No mention was made in the notes about any change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Invis -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    -Timers don't reset on Disregard and Ignore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before the patch (3-21-05), I could cast *Disregard* (lvl 47 spell) and *Ignore* (lvl 32 spell) on two different targets and have both people invisible at the same time.  Whether it was someone in my group and I, or two other people in my group. Reguardless, they are seperate spells and could be used at the same time. Now, I have one invis, whether i choose to use my better one, Disregard, or my weaker on, Ignore. They share the same recast timer, which after being cast once is none.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> If this is an intended change, please say so. The last patch had no information about coercer spell modifications.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Haste -</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>    - Recast timer doesn't reset.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So i have to cancel my haste buff, wait for the gem to refresh before I can recast. More of an annoyance than anything else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again. No mention of any change in the patch notes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please understand, I really enjoy this game, but maybe there is a reason there are only 10 Coercers on Innothule over lvl 40.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for your time,<BR></DIV> <DIV>Sivitar - Innothule<BR><BR>50 Coercer</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>These spells were upgrades to existing ones and should not stack. Without the recast timers one could have the buffs would last indefinitely, instead of the 15min they do now.</P> <P>I don't think this will change and agree that it should have been mentioned as a fix.</P>

Scally W
03-23-2005, 04:29 PM
<DIV>Ahhh we need fixes and they continue to stealth nerf us.  Lovely.  I do agree with the upgrades sharing the same timer, but seriously they should be fixing a whole lot more in our favor first.</DIV>

yes4
03-23-2005, 05:07 PM
I really hate the Haste "update". Sony can't improve jack, without destroying at least twice more.

Nibbl
03-23-2005, 08:07 PM
<P>I think everything they did was on purpose in this case (outside of the haste piece)</P> <P> </P> <P>You are not supposed to be able to invis 2 ppl... only 1 at a time</P> <P>And as mentioned above, all those spells shuold not stack as they are pure upgrades. Actually, prior to this patch, if you cast the higher level spell and then the lower level spell, you would see no change. They did not stack before but they let the icons show up (much like breeze and refresh)</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyhow, I will update the issue list on the haste timer</P>

SageMarrow
03-23-2005, 08:34 PM
<DIV><FONT color=#ffff33>I really hate the Haste "update". Sony can't improve jack, without destroying at least twice more. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>totally agree, thats what happens when you fly by the seat of your trousers...:smileyhappy:</DIV>

Tanatus
03-23-2005, 08:45 PM
<DIV>First of all our buffs within line never stacked - only icons so it was really minor UI fix really. I have tested intensively various way of buffing and highest lvl buff always took hold</DIV> <DIV>About Disregard/Ingnore - those spells actually been beefed up A LOT what you are talking here guys??? Before patch every scout type mob or every wizards with awareness ability would see trough my invis .... nowdays I walk all way from entrace of Solusek down to Lord Nagafen without single mob see me</DIV> <DIV>Inability to recast haste is annoing but who would use haste in group anyway? It wont add much (if any) DPS to group due to fact that its not affect specials and specials are 70-80% of total DPS </DIV>

Erow
03-23-2005, 09:19 PM
<P>What i'm saying more than anything else is communication. I'm noticing changes happening that are not in the release notes. Even if they are slight.</P> <P>Concerning buffs, before the patch I could self buff my INT to 233. Now, I'm at 197. Something changed. I think Signet of Realization & Signet of Insight used to stack. I'm not sure. But why do we have 5 concentration slots if we are locked to 3 buffs?</P> <P>I've always been able to invis a second person, ever since i got my second invis. Up until the patch, i was running people around, getting them their runes for the dragon language quest. Whether or not we were -intended- to invis more than ourselves is not the point. The issue is that they changed this without any notice. So... if we got an upgrade to our invis, but at the cost of not being able to invis other, cool, fine, whatever... just let us know.</P> <P>I do and will use haste when grouped with melees. 37% haste does make a difference.</P> <P>I don't want to sound like a baby, so i'll stop at that.</P><p>Message Edited by Erowen on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:29 PM</span>

Sy
03-23-2005, 10:31 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tanatus wrote:<BR> <DIV>First of all our buffs within line never stacked - only icons so it was really minor UI fix really. I have tested intensively various way of buffing and highest lvl buff always took hold</DIV> <DIV>About Disregard/Ingnore - those spells actually been beefed up A LOT what you are talking here guys??? Before patch every scout type mob or every wizards with awareness ability would see trough my invis .... nowdays I walk all way from entrace of Solusek down to Lord Nagafen without single mob see me</DIV> <DIV>Inability to recast haste is annoing but who would use haste in group anyway? It wont add much (if any) DPS to group due to fact that its not affect specials and specials are 70-80% of total DPS </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I tested as well. And I agree with all your comments.  In fact I agree with your posts about 95% of the time.. Well said.!  There is however one post that i disagreed with but the foprums were bugged and wouldnt let me log on so ill let it slide :smileytongue:</P> <P> </P> <P>Syan 43 Coercer/50 Alch  <---- nerf me more if you can!!<BR></P>

Nibbl
03-23-2005, 10:54 PM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Erowen wrote:<BR> <P>What i'm saying more than anything else is communication. I'm noticing changes happening that are not in the release notes. Even if they are slight.</P> <P>Concerning buffs, before the patch I could self buff my INT to 233. Now, I'm at 197. Something changed. I think Signet of Realization & Signet of Insight used to stack. I'm not sure. But why do we have 5 concentration slots if we are locked to 3 buffs?</P> <P>I've always been able to invis a second person, ever since i got my second invis. Up until the patch, i was running people around, getting them their runes for the dragon language quest. Whether or not we were -intended- to invis more than ourselves is not the point. The issue is that they changed this without any notice. So... if we got an upgrade to our invis, but at the cost of not being able to invis other, cool, fine, whatever... just let us know.</P> <P>I do and will use haste when grouped with melees. 37% haste does make a difference.</P> <P>I don't want to sound like a baby, so i'll stop at that.</P> <P>Sivitar - Innothule<BR><BR>50 Coercer</P> <P>Message Edited by Erowen on <SPAN class=date_text>03-23-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>08:25 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>All I can assume is we need to get used to changes not being documented by patch notes. I am amazed how they can miss items but I guess it happens when so many changes happen week to week and day to day.</P> <P>Now if only we can get some positive changes!</P> <P><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

Zmokyn
03-24-2005, 12:26 AM
<P>Some of the buffs did use to stack, because I tested it one time, when I was around L35, in order to work out which 5 spells to use.</P> <P>The two purple shield icon buffs I had at that time stacked.</P> <P>The two brain icon buffs did not stack.</P> <P>The two yellow shield icon buffs did stack.</P> <P>I accept that the same combinations at different levels may have had different behavior.</P>