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canteen
02-20-2005, 12:54 AM
<DIV>33 Coercer here.  I play about 2-3 hours a night.  We have a group of Berzerker, Shaman, Scout and Priest that get together.  Before group gets together I'd go solo some to get some exp.  I'm behind about 3/4 of a level and like to keep it close.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, root doesn't work a [FAAR-NERFED!] since patch.  Stun causes the mob to port right in front of me.  Mez is dropping halfway through the duration or resisted.  Fizzles have been reduced YEA!! but resists seem to be the same or even come more often.  This makes soloing for me not an option at the moment.  Not that I was getting great experience soloing before but now it's impossible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In group situations I'm the guy with dog food in his pocket.  The mobs ignore the tank who pulls and beeline straight for me.  Forbid a taunt gets resisted.  I get wacked a few times and taunt pulls them off.  We were fighting some female cats in EL last night and it was kinda cool that they came for me first <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those that don't play coercers' don't know we get a 1 second cast time stun that lasts maybe 5 seconds.  Enough time to get out of messy situation.  The upgrade to this spell is now a 4 second cast stun with 8 second duration.  No longer the saviour spell it once was.  And the old spell no longer works because the mobs are too high in level.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I believe the "Get the Coercer" problem is because of buffing.  Mobs must know I've buffed people before the fight starts or are reading a pulse or something from the buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From my point of view, the Coercer was fun to play until recently.  I've read posts about higher level Coercer spells being broken but was hoping they would be fixed before I got to those levels.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I checked out crafting after the patch but it's no longer the comfort food it was before.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A friend says "it's only a game" and he's right.  Why do I let a game get me frustratred?  Well, I've invested quite abit of time in this "game" and enjoyed it in the past.  I'm not enjoying it very much anymore.  I'm frustrated that there is a Test Server yet bugs or features like this still make it to the main servers.  I'm frustrated not hearing the developers tell me they know about these problems and what thier plans are to correct them.  I'm the guy that gets bad service at a restaurant and never returns.  I feel like I'm going back to that bad restaurant over and over lately just because my friends haven't experienced the crappy service or food.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's to better times.....sooner than later.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Signal9
02-20-2005, 02:09 AM
I hear you. I'm a 28th coercer, and spend more time leveling my druid now.I love the coercer, but I can't do [FAAR-NERFED!] without a tank, and a healer.All hail the holy trinity!

vic2
02-20-2005, 03:28 AM
<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>canteen wrote:</P> <P>I'm frustrated that there is a Test Server yet bugs or features like this still make it to the main servers.  I'm frustrated not hearing the developers tell me they know about these problems and what thier plans are to correct them.  I'm the guy that gets bad service at a restaurant and never returns.  I feel like I'm going back to that bad restaurant over and over lately just because my friends haven't experienced the crappy service or food.</P> <P> <HR> </P> <P>I couldn't, and god knows I've tried, have said it any better.</P>

Kylaia
02-20-2005, 03:56 AM
I'm feeling some of the same effects since the last patch as well. A few weeks ago I posted on another thread that I felt I was doing something wrong with regards to soloing, especially when other Coercers claimed to be able to solo up to orange or even red mobs with little difficulty. After talking to another Coercer on my server, we determined that my main problem was that I didn't have my Parry & Defense skills maxed, and many of my spells were sub-Adept 1 quality. Once I upgraded some of my spells/items & maxed my skills, my AC rose from 1995 to 2624, and my soloing ability increased greatly. I would handily be able to defeat up to lvl 34 solo mobs in EL as a lvl 32 Coercer (wanted to get comfortable with my new soloing system before trying anything harder). Then, I dinged 33 and the latest patch went live. Now, I'm back to soloing on par with how it was before I maxed skills and upgraded my gear/spells! I even respec'd after the patch to choose more advanced offensive spells rather than the upgraded Fascinate & Breeze I had selected before. Even with these new Adept2 quality spells in my arsenal, I'm often lucky to finish a fight with a lvl 34 Briarpaw Cub with 10% hp left. The situation with my adept1 Binding Light breaking after 2 seconds & having the mob suddenly go from 10 feet away to right on top of me in an instant is especially frustrating. What's more upsetting is there was no language in the patch notes that could explain these changes. To have just recently learned the joys of being able to solo only to have it taken away is disappointing at best, and I hope these issues get addressed sometime soon.Also, I see a lot of posts where people recommend having Adept3 or Master1 spells. I check the Broker & Fence on Permafrost at least twice a day for spell upgrades, and I've only seen an Adept3 of Breeze for upwards of 20g and one Master spell today for over 2p. At these prices/availability, it isn't feasible for me (or anyone) to rely on purchasing these upgrades to our core spells.

vic2
02-20-2005, 05:18 AM
<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>Kyalaia wrote:</P> <P>Also, I see a lot of posts where people recommend having Adept3 or Master1 spells. I check the Broker & Fence on Permafrost at least twice a day for spell upgrades, and I've only seen an Adept3 of Breeze for upwards of 20g and one Master spell today for over 2p. At these prices/availability, it isn't feasible for me (or anyone) to rely on purchasing these upgrades to our core spells. </P> <P> <HR> </P>This mentality, specificly that "Your skills aren't working well? You should upgrade to adept 3 or master 1!", is exactly what keeps things broken to the degree that they are broken. How many times have you heard someone complain that mez didn't stick for very long or that root breaks almost instantly, only to have someone pipe up with the previously quoted line of 'just upgrade your spells'?. You should be able to play the game just fine with apprentice 1 versions of any given spell. While I do conceed that many players have reached the level 50 mark, and reached it before many adepts or masters dropped, you will notice that coercers, illusionists, and enchanters were very few in those ranks. SOE recently increasing the amount of rares coming from harvesting nodes only accentuates this idea that players should make up for flaws in the game via brute force tactics. Spell and combat art upgrades should do nothing more than make it easier on players or cover up a lack of player skill rather than cover up a flaw in game mechanics, and I say this as a player that owns many master I scrolls.

Nerj
02-20-2005, 08:47 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vic202 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>Kyalaia wrote:</P> <P>Also, I see a lot of posts where people recommend having Adept3 or Master1 spells. I check the Broker & Fence on Permafrost at least twice a day for spell upgrades, and I've only seen an Adept3 of Breeze for upwards of 20g and one Master spell today for over 2p. At these prices/availability, it isn't feasible for me (or anyone) to rely on purchasing these upgrades to our core spells. </P> <P> <HR> <P></P>This mentality, specificly that "Your skills aren't working well? You should upgrade to adept 3 or master 1!", is exactly what keeps things broken to the degree that they are broken. How many times have you heard someone complain that mez didn't stick for very long or that root breaks almost instantly, only to have someone pipe up with the previously quoted line of 'just upgrade your spells'?. <FONT color=#ffff00>You should be able to play the game just fine with apprentice 1 versions of any given spell.</FONT> While I do conceed that many players have reached the level 50 mark, and reached it before many adepts or masters dropped, you will notice that coercers, illusionists, and enchanters were very few in those ranks. SOE recently increasing the amount of rares coming from harvesting nodes only accentuates this idea that players should make up for flaws in the game via brute force tactics. Spell and combat art upgrades should do nothing more than make it easier on players or cover up a lack of player skill rather than cover up a flaw in game mechanics, and I say this as a player that owns many master I scrolls.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Actually App 1 was designed for use on MOBS 2 levels below you, APP 2 i level below and APP 3 the same level. In the rush to kill tradeskilling and get ad revenue in a number of "bugs" got introduced. It may be a few more weeks till it gets straigthen out. Just use /bug to keep reporting them. Eventually, we will get a responce.</FONT></DIV>

Valdaya
02-20-2005, 11:53 AM
<DIV>At some point post 30, my soloing strategy changed sizably, starting when I ended up grouping with a lower level warrior who'd completed the EL access quest but was still too low level to really be effective there.  When we'd duo the solo flagged creatures, I'd be the tank.  It was actually her who noted that it seemed to be working better than when I'd root and rot, and what do you know, she was right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 30 brings along Withering Silence, one of the best spells in our arsenal.  It can cut out all of an enemy's special attacks, which contribute well over half of its damage in a battle.  So, use it!  Skip the root entirely when fighting solo class creatures.  Pull with the Silence, stack DoTs on, then HO/Nuke away.  Re-silence each 4th spell you cast.  If a silence is resisted or something else goes wrong, toss in a stun to buy time.  Unnerving Stare gives you enough time to cast four whole spells, which can turn a losing battle into a victory.  You'll find that though you're being attacked the whole battle, the absence of enemy Barrages and Crushing Blows is causing you to come out better than when you used Root but had it break and took a few hits.  You should be able to easily tank even yellow/orange con solo enemies, as well as blue 'advanced solo' encounters, though the latter can be riskier if they're only one level blue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give it a shot.  As we gain levels, our strategy evolves.  Withering Silence is one of our key spells, so make use of it!</DIV>

Tanatus
02-20-2005, 11:53 AM
<DIV>As it stands now for good or bad game balanced around <STRONG><EM><U>Adept 3</U></EM></STRONG> spells </DIV>

Valdaya
02-20-2005, 11:57 AM
<DIV>Not to disagree with Tanatus, but I don't have a single Adept III spell.  All my spells that I use even semi-regularly are Adept 1, though.  Getting Adept IIIs just isn't reliable unless you have a strong guild's backing or some way of making a lot of money, for the people who do that's great for them, but for the rest of us Adept 1s are still perfectly fine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you have spells still sitting at Apprentice level, well, then you really do have to upgrade.  Simple Minds, Muddled Thinking, Terrible Awe and the other spells that didn't have Adept 1s before have them now, so go out and stock up.</DIV>

Tanatus
02-20-2005, 11:49 PM
<DIV>Valdayana I am talking about lvl 40+ game ...</DIV> <DIV>I  made twink (wona be warlock) - from what I see  ... till lvl ~20 you can get away with Apprentice 2 spells (as long as you not soloing) from lvl 21 and to 30 you must have at least primary spells at Adept 1 and rest could be at around Apprentice 2-3, from 30 to 40 - you need to have primary spells at Adept 3 and rest at Adept 1, in 40-50 its kinda mandatory to have primary spells at Adept 3 and rest at Adept 1 but preferebly primary at Master 1 and rest at Adept 3. </DIV> <DIV>Adept 1 - Entrall, Ravage Psyche, Agonizing Silence - got resisted WAY to much even then you fight white-yellow type encounter (lvl 48-50 mobs for me)</DIV> <DIV>Master 1-Adept 3 - Gloom, Despair, Torment, Devouring Toughts, Muddled Thinking ( I am not even bother to cast Seizure since it only Adept 1), Tyrranical Mind on other hand have resonable lvl of resistance</DIV>

Ogrelicio
02-21-2005, 06:39 AM
<DIV>Something is seriously screwed up since the patch.  If someone accidently aggros a group, they give attention to the aggroer for a split second and then run directly at me.  I don't mind a challenge, and a little increased aggro for spells I cast, but this is just stupid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Running through nek tonight in a group:  Wizard gets within aggro range of a group of 3.  They then run at me and I die within seconds.</DIV>

Valdaya
02-21-2005, 09:43 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ogrelicious wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Running through nek tonight in a group:  Wizard gets within aggro range of a group of 3.  They then run at me and I die within seconds.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I should've mentioned this in response to the original poster, but I will here instead.  They ran at you because you had Breeze on the wizard.  Breeze counts as a 'power heal' each tick of 6 seconds, just as a druid Regenerate spell counts as a 'health heal' each tick.  Thus, since the wizard didn't actually do anything to gain hate with the group besides walk near them, you'll acquire hate for 'healing' the wizard's power once Breeze ticks, and the creatures will go for you.  If this is causing problems with your puller, and things peeling off to attack you, there's two ways to solve it.  First is to have your puller pull with a group taunt to ensure that all the creatures are quite hostile to him (the amount of agro Breeze causes is actually very small, and a group taunt will ensure that you're safe).  If that doesn't work for whatever reason, then just don't have Breeze on your puller.  You won't draw agro if there's no 'power heal' on the puller.</DIV>

Gilbert
02-21-2005, 11:25 PM
<DIV><FONT size=2>I've been attacked first since I first started playing (the day Steamfont opened).  I always figured it was the buffs placed on myself so I haven't really noticed much of a change in creatures attacking me first.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Soloing seems to be the same to me as it was from the start.  I use my arsenal of stuns, roots and mezzes to easily solo.  I soloed all the solo mobs (levels 30 - 32) in EL since I was level 26.  Now I'm soloing Huuptics on the beach in Feerrott just as easily.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>My strategy at level 38? : Start with Anguish (or Melancholy depending how I feel), hit Binding Light, then Melancholy, take a hit or two if Binding Light drops, Gloom, Static Pulse, Binding Light and move (or hit Unnerving Stare), then HO, then another Binding Light, move and HO.  Usually a quick kill and not much mana loss.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>My spells are: Anguish (Adept 1), Melancholy (Adept 1), Binding Light (Adept 1), Gloom (Adept 1), Static Pulse (Adept 3), Muddled Thinking (App IV), Despotic Mind (Master 1), Unnerving Stare (Master 1). (I just upgraded Gloom and Muddled Thinking to Adept 3 but haven't had the chance to solo yet).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I'll hit mez if I'm really getting beat on to either run away or give me time to get collected to blast with another Despotic Mind and get the kill if the mob is low on health.  I hope this helps.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Gilbertus</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>38 Ogre Coercer</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Steamfont</FONT></DIV>

Kreat
02-22-2005, 12:10 AM
<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gilbertus wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT size=2>I've been attacked first since I first started playing (the day Steamfont opened).  I always figured it was the buffs placed on myself so I haven't really noticed much of a change in creatures attacking me first.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Soloing seems to be the same to me as it was from the start.  I use my arsenal of stuns, roots and mezzes to easily solo.  I soloed all the solo mobs (levels 30 - 32) in EL since I was level 26.  Now I'm soloing Huuptics on the beach in Feerrott just as easily.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>My strategy at level 38? : Start with Anguish (or Melancholy depending how I feel), hit Binding Light, then Melancholy, take a hit or two if Binding Light drops, Gloom, Static Pulse, Binding Light and move (or hit Unnerving Stare), then HO, then another Binding Light, move and HO.  Usually a quick kill and not much mana loss.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>My spells are: Anguish (Adept 1), Melancholy (Adept 1), Binding Light (Adept 1), Gloom (Adept 1), Static Pulse (Adept 3), Muddled Thinking (App IV), Despotic Mind (Master 1), Unnerving Stare (Master 1). (I just upgraded Gloom and Muddled Thinking to Adept 3 but haven't had the chance to solo yet).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I'll hit mez if I'm really getting beat on to either run away or give me time to get collected to blast with another Despotic Mind and get the kill if the mob is low on health.  I hope this helps.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Gilbertus</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>38 Ogre Coercer</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Steamfont</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>These are the tactics most of us use, but as of lately, we just can't. Half the spells I cast (and I have all of my spells at app4-ad3) are resisted, even by grays, and my roots/binds/stifles break after 3-4 seconds, and after the agi nerf, I get hit without fail every single time. It just doesn't cut it anymore. </P> <P>I can swallow the fact that we don't have the DPS of Wiz/Warlocks, and that we should be on par with Summoner types, but we aren't, our DPS is laughable, and when we can't use our Crowd Control spells to work a mob/situation, then I feel that the entire point with out class is down the gutter and that all we are reduced to are crack-vendors with the occasional mezz of an add.</P>

Gilbert
02-22-2005, 01:43 AM
<DIV><FONT size=2>That's what I said: I've been soloing after the patch just as effectively.  The hits I take don't really hurt.  Soloing Huuptics the hits can add up but never enough to kill me.  Soloing the Grove Ward Seedlings in Rivervale was just as easy with Stifle even though they resist a little more.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Maybe it's because I'm an Ogre or possibly my gear which I doubt is any better then anyone elses but I don't see what you're talking about.  Maybe once in a blue moon do I get a number of Resists in a row and get pounded when soloing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I don't argue that this has happened and our class need to be fixed but I personally haven't experienced what you are talking about.</FONT></DIV>

Midnite_Ho
02-22-2005, 07:00 AM
<DIV>I have also noticed in increase in aggro against me since the patch. Before the patch I know the aggro would happen if I casted a group buff like Recklessness or if I casted Breeze on a group member during a fight, but now the aggro starts on me when I havn't even done a thing. The only thing I can figure is, as stated by someone else here is that I may have had Breeze casted on our puller. The only problem I have with that is, that I almost always cast that before or after a fight, so how would the mob know that I casted that buff, or that my puller even had that buff on him for that matter. Things that I do before or after a fight should not affect the next fight we enter. Also, why give a fighter class Taunt if it can't work against my buffs placed on that fighter? This really needs to be fixed because I'm sure most of us Coercers can not handle too much a beatin' when the whole group of mobs attacks us first, all because we have Breeze or Recklessness up on our group mates. What purpose do we serve to our groups if we feel we can not safely have these buffs placed on our groupmates? Can this be petitioned does anybody know? I'm very frustrated by this!:smileymad:</DIV>

Aery
02-22-2005, 07:57 AM
<DIV>I've noticed this pretty much all along, the only reason i can think of people suddenly noticing it is maybe with the 15 minute duration more people are putting breeze/refresh/clarity on the entire group instead of just the casters.</DIV> <DIV>Breeze seems to count as a small power heal every tick. If your puller use an ae taunt or something to pull with the aggro on that group isn't really a problem but whenever a group is soft aggroed from just getting close enough they will always come straight for the enchanter. Pretty much insuring our only crowd control ability is act as a 2K rune for the healer of the group since theres no possibilty of us surviving aggro from a full group of adds for more than 2 seconds, and with all almost every class having an ae they are in love with and all the ae HO's crowd control withen a group is a joke, wiith the occasional exception of a named pull.</DIV>

Zmokyn
02-24-2005, 11:59 PM
<DIV>I think Aeryka is correct.</DIV> <DIV>A coercer needs:</DIV> <DIV>- a tank that knows how to draw agro at the correct time</DIV> <DIV>- to stand the other side of the tank from the incoming mobs</DIV> <DIV>- to avoid casting Haste during the pull.</DIV> <DIV>I have seen no difference before and after thee patch.</DIV> <DIV>Poor timing or poor tanking still kills me, just like it always did.</DIV>

canteen
02-25-2005, 12:41 AM
<DIV>Root still breaking incredibly fast.  I've eliminated being the death target by not casting breeze on the tank.  Sucks because sometimes have to wait for his power to replenish.  I sometimes cast a breeze after fight and try to note which breeze is the tanks then cancel it before next pull.  But with only so many icons visible that is not always possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone that doesn't notice a difference in Root (Blinding Light) hasn't tried to solo recently.  Maybe the next upgrade works better.  One can only hope.</DIV>

Signal9
03-01-2005, 01:26 AM
<DIV>The reason we're likely noticing this now, may be a behind the scenes patch to correct the way Priests get aggro from heals.  As Moorgard posted, Druid heals are assigning hate correctly, giving hate every regen tick, to - the caster of the spell - where in the past, the druid regen worked that way, but the other heals (reactives, and wards) gave the hate to the recipient when they went off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm willing to bet that they have made a change on the coding end to assign the hate correctly for Inquisitors, and Defiliers, and have now discovered why that mechanic was broken.  It was being used to allow power-regen tics hate to be applied to the recipient also.  Now that they fixed the heal-aggro, our aggro is much more like a Druid's than not.</DIV>