goodnight

[lik]

<P>Message Edited by liken on <SPAN class=date_text>09-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:37 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by liken on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:45 PM</span>

[Squelch]

yes

[Walker0]

<DIV>true</DIV>

[Banditman]

<div><blockquote><hr>liken wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div>This is for raid illusionist only plz....no group or solo player reply.       Scenario---> You have 23 peeps in your raid, You have no swashbuckler you have no necro and you have no Illusionist............ and you are just about to zone into a raid zone or take a contested mob.    And all of a sudden  your guild mate swashbuckler necro and your illusionist  all log in at the same time <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.   <font color="#ff0000">Do you have power regen in every group already?  How is your DPS?  Lots of things affect who might fill a 24th slot.  You might even drop one of the prior 23 depending on your needs.  If I've got 4 SK's, and those three log on, you can bet I'm dropping 2 SK's to get those three in the raid.  I'm sorry, this question is just far too general to give you a real answer for.</font>Next  Scenario---> SOE has just made a new rule that Raid guild's  can not have more than 24 players in a guild. Now comes the question -->" which one do you kick out of the guild the swashbuckler the necro or the Illusionist "?      < One word Answers plz><font color="#ff0000">Who is in the guild?  Do you have multiples of other classes?  Which classes?  You are asking a question that simply doesn't have an answer out of context.</font></div> <p>Message Edited by liken on <span class="date_text">09-22-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:58 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by liken on <span class="date_text">09-22-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:00 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote></div>

[Pins]

What does the rest of your raid look like? Without knowing this, the question is pointless.<p>Message Edited by Pinski on <span class=date_text>09-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:28 PM</span>

[lik]

I feel your pain Pinski, Because we both know the answer to the question. You have spent so much time playing your Illusionist you are not willing to admit you are inept in raids =/

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>liken wrote:I feel your pain Pinski, Because we both know the answer to the question. You have spent so much time playing your Illusionist you are not willing to admit you are inept in raids =/<hr></blockquote>Yes, doing 1k+ dps zone-wide makes me worthless!

[lik]

<DIV>LOL how did i know you were gona say that.  illusionist doing dps is such a class Defining roll <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   You are way off the point here bud,  Illusionist should bring a class defining element to a raid force. Apparently you think "dps "is  what makes an illusionist an illusionist.   You are reaching for alternatives to justify bringing a illusionist to a raid.... nice try, but its a failed attempt</DIV>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>liken wrote:<DIV>LOL how did i know you were gona say that.  illusionist doing dps is such a class Defining roll <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   You are way off the point here bud,  Illusionist should bring a class defining element to a raid force. Apparently you think "dps "is  what makes an illusionist an illusionist.   You are reaching for alternatives to justify bringing a illusionist to a raid.... nice try, but its a failed attempt</DIV><hr></blockquote>Let's see, haste is useful for assassins, brigands, bruisers, berserkers. Hrm, let's see power regen is useful, for everybody. Hrm, and DPS. Yah, maybe it's not the best, but still why don't you stop being stupid. Sure Illusionists aren't as great as other power regen classes(troubadors are far superior, as are coercers if you can only have 1 of the choices, but if you can have multiple a 2nd coercer is worth less than having a first illusionist), but sometimes you need options. If you suck at the class and don't like it, then just betray so you can be "better." There are many things that are wrong with Illusionists, however in the picture vs. Coercers, we aren't that badly off. In the bigger picture, sure we're pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed, but in the picture vs. just Coercers, we are pretty balanced.

[Banditman]

I think someone is having a bad day.You've tried to make a point and failed.  You can't analyze raid composition looking at only one slot out of 24.  You must look at the entire picture.When I'm building a raid, many things go into the decisions concerning composition.  Power regen, DPS, adequate healing, buffing, debuffing, tanking . . . Let me throw your question back at you . . . If you have one slot and only one slot in your raid, would you take:  Guardian, Mystic or Ranger?You simply can't answer that question, because any answer you give could be wrong.Now, if I tell you that my groups look like this:G1 - Templar, Warden, Defiler, Dirge, CoercerG2 - Illusionist, Shadowknight, Swashbuckler, Fury, Warlock, NecromancerG3 - Brigand, Assassin, Troubador, Conjuror, Mystic, WizardG4 - Paladin, Monk, Bruiser, Inquisitor, Berzerker, RangerThen I can easily see that the choice I need to make is Guardian and the other choices would leave my raid in a less advantageous position.<div></div>

[lik]

<DIV>Your funny, i like you <3 <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />,...,guild's are 3 grouping Labs and you wana get that Technical,  you dont even need 4 full groups to  kill this crap......23 players killed chel drak. /thinks you so funny o0.</DIV>

[Tuleri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> liken wrote:<BR> <DIV>LOL how did i know you were gona say that.  illusionist doing dps is such a class Defining roll <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   You are way off the point here bud,  Illusionist should bring a class defining element to a raid force. Apparently you think "dps "is  what makes an illusionist an illusionist.   You are reaching for alternatives to justify bringing a illusionist to a raid.... nice try, but its a failed attempt</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>We bring DPS...</P> <P>We bring A+++++ power regen.  Put multiple healers with an illu and they wont run out of power...</P> <P>We have really good buffs (haste and dyna)</P> <P>We can REALLY help a raid wilth a well timed stun or mezz when I tank is down or  low in power.    </P> <P> </P> <P>Not exactly sure what your getting at?  If it is that mezz is not used often in raids?..well it isnt used often anywhere else but soloing either...Except for in Nizara  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Peglegcrook]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><EM>Your funny, i like you <3 <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0>,...,guild's are 3 grouping Labs and you wana get that Technical,  you dont even need 4 full groups to  kill this crap......23 players killed chel drak. /thinks you so funny o0.</EM></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?!?! you get shot down on your first question and you bring up the fact that people can 3 grp the Labs, and can kill Chel'Drak 1 player short?  you sir, are an idiot!  i am embarrassed to share this class with someone so incompetent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>at any given instance, i can switch to a myriad of different rolls.....with my pet out i can average around 1200dps on raid, or if im in a scout grp, i can haste 3 for a wicked 65%, if im with healers i just offer a little DPS with a huge mana regen/crit heals.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>our class isnt the most important on raid, but we offer a huge amount that no other classes do.  i mean, if you have a mage heavy raid, what is the point in taking another DPS mage (sorcerer or summoner)  all they really add is more DPS.  if you are fighter heavy, why bring in another Guardian, they offer very little unless you need a dual tank setup.  i mean, you can sit here and talk about how "un-useful" all classes can be...but you are wasting everyone's time bringing yet another----illusionists suck----into these forums, we know the issues we have, but not much seems to be changing....if you dont like it, leave!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>liken wrote:<DIV>Your funny, i like you <3 <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />,...,guild's are 3 grouping Labs and you wana get that Technical,  you dont even need 4 full groups to  kill this crap......23 players killed chel drak. /thinks you so funny o0.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Just 1 person short on chel'drak? That's weak. Doing it with 20 easily.Anyway, I'm sorry you suck as an Illusionist.

[s]

<DIV>The single most important reason so many people think illusionists suck on raids is because the illusionist itself doesn't know his role on a raid. This role is to DPS, period. The whole dream of crowd controlling and being utility is all bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. We do not CC, get your coercer to do that (except those two or three encounters where you might want to reconsider). We do not offer any utility except for permanent buffs so that's another thing to scratch off the list because after clicking those buff buttons before the raid your utility role is over aswell. Mana conserving spells are useless aswell since mobs die so fast anyway, you don't need the extra mana regen. So what is left? DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm pulling 1k+ zone DPS in any raid zone and up to almost 1.4k in lyceum. Don't come here whining how useless you are. We do pretty high DPS if you properly play your class. That combined with all the perma buffs we can have up (haste, mana regen, procs) we are a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] nice class to have in any raid force.</DIV>

[lik]

<DIV>So if you think mana regen is not needed because the mobs die to fast, Then  do the raid a favor and drop so a necro/conj can take your place. Even better, drop so a swashbuckler can take your place < they out dps you- they  debuff more than you  could in your wildest dreams,,,So ya , be kind to your guild mates, and get the heck out of their raid,</DIV>

[K3mik4l]

<blockquote><hr>liken wrote:<div>So if you think mana regen is not needed because the mobs die to fast, Then do the raid a favor and drop so a necro/conj can take your place. Even better, drop so a swashbuckler can take your place < they out dps you- they debuff more than you could in your wildest dreams,,,So ya , be kind to your guild mates, and get the heck out of their raid,</div><hr></blockquote>Drop an illusionist from raid and miss the power regen, haste, synergism? Power regen might not be needed for trash, it still is very nice to have for named/longer fights <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> All in all I'm quite sure an illusionist with their buffs and themselves combined provide as much dps as a summoner. If not more, depends really, hehe.If you're trying to prove yourself that you're useless, you've done a great job at it. No point in trying to convince those that know they're very useful <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Manyak]

<DIV>actually, illu DPS is one of the highest of all classes......assuming perfect buffs for everyone, i can only think of 4 other classes that can beat it consistantly on a single target named fight. That doesnt sound anywhere near useless to me.</DIV>

[Stealth Status]

<div></div>OMG Calagin don't waste your time on this guy. What has he accomplish'd I would like to know?  Who the heck are you bud?I don't think what you think really matters at all since you are not accomplishing what we are , are you?Edit for grammer<div></div><p>Message Edited by Stealth Status on <span class=date_text>09-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:16 AM</span>

[Xanoth]

o.owhat sort of numbers do you get single target?granted i need to respec my illu's aa's and smuggle him into the antechamber in (checks lockout) 2 days, to get the recast ring, and finish claymore for some more porc items... well he's a neglected alt, i aint expecting miracles from him.but still single target DPS i find it hard to beleve an illu can get what... 1.5k to be part of the top 5 single target DPS?

[Rayvne2]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xanoth wrote:<BR>o.o<BR><BR>what sort of numbers do you get single target?<BR><BR>granted i need to respec my illu's aa's and smuggle him into the antechamber in (checks lockout) 2 days, to get the recast ring, and finish claymore for some more porc items... well he's a neglected alt, i aint expecting miracles from him.<BR><BR>but still single target DPS i find it hard to beleve an illu can get what... 1.5k to be part of the top 5 single target DPS?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I do 900ish when trying and have craptastic gear.

[Manyak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xanoth wrote:<BR>o.o<BR><BR>what sort of numbers do you get single target?<BR><BR>granted i need to respec my illu's aa's and smuggle him into the antechamber in (checks lockout) 2 days, to get the recast ring, and finish claymore for some more porc items... well he's a neglected alt, i aint expecting miracles from him.<BR><BR>but still single target DPS i find it hard to beleve an illu can get what... 1.5k to be part of the top 5 single target DPS?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>if i have perfect buffs to maximize my dps (troubador and wizard, and they both cast their PoM and frigid gift without slacking, and got the pet out), i can put out 1.5-1.7k dps on a single target, consistantly. My highest single target parse is 2.2k, but thats just cuz i was extremely lucky with crits, heh.</P> <P>somewhere on this board i posted a parse breakdown at around 1.6k, if u feel like looking for it.</P>