The official WIZARD Changes........ I think you guys will like what you see....

[Supafroi]

<DIV>All im gonna say is this look to good to be true..... =p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Wizard changes:<BR>   - Breath of the Tyrant and Immolation no longer share the same reuse timer.<BR>   - Ball of Flames and Ball of Fire no longer share the same reuse timer.<BR>   - Piercing Icicles and Icy Coil no longer share the same reuse timer.<BR>   - Ball of Flame now has a cast time of 2 seconds and a recast time of 6 seconds.<BR>   - Burning Intimidation now does 4 times its previous amount of damage.<BR>   - Immolation now deals 2 additional ticks of heat damage at 120% of the initial instant damage. The cast time has been increased to 3 seconds and the recast time is now 21 seconds.<BR>   - Ice Comet's damage has been increased 275%, and its reuse time is now 45 seconds.<BR>   - Freeze and Daenor's Lingering Frost now do 3 times their previous amount of damage.<BR>   - Icy Coil's initial instant damage has been increased 350%.<BR>   - Piercing Icicles now deals 200% additional instant piercing damage.<BR></DIV>

[EternalSoldier11]

<DIV>I'm not sure if I would call it too good to be true, but I think it is a reasonable place to start. I am sure SoE doesn't want to over-due the damage increase, because they would only have to nerf it later if they did. Regardless, I look forward to seeing how this impacts my gameplay!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Very good news.</DIV>

[Trith]

<DIV>- Spell casters will no longer fizzle on any spell that is blue, green, or grey to them, as long as their casting skills are maximized.<BR></DIV> <DIV><BR>- Wizard changes:<BR><BR>   - Piercing Icicles and Icy Coil no longer share the same reuse timer.</DIV> <DIV>HAS ANYBODY BEEN ABLE TO CONFIRM IF THESE TWO DEBUFFS DO/WILL STACK?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>   - Icy Coil's initial instant damage has been increased 350%.<BR>   - Piercing Icicles now deals 200% additional instant piercing damage.<BR></DIV> <DIV>THIS SHOULD MAKE THESE EVEN MORE DESIREABLE NOW THAN ANYTHING, BEING ABLE TO DEBUFF AND KEEP OUR DPS UP HIGH WITH A DECENT DMG HIT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am curious though if any persistant changes are in the works for increasing adept1 to adept3 still though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vladek</DIV> <DIV>42 Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Sinister Circle</DIV> <DIV>Najena</DIV>

[Erow]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am curious though if any persistant changes are in the works for increasing adept1 to adept3 still though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vladek</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#3399ff size=3>Explain....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#3399ff size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Trith]

<DIV>Example</DIV> <DIV><BR>Ball of Fire Adept1/Adept3</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does not increase max dmg, apparent average dmg, apparent resists,  but it does cost more power.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Frozen Manacles........same as above but with no change on root time in addition.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am sure there are other spells that have very little/no effect of upgrading to Adept3, as there have been many posts inquiring on the effects of adept3 upgrades, with similar findings.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vladek</DIV> <DIV>42 Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Sinister Circle</DIV> <DIV>Najena</DIV>

[Twins]

<DIV>I can't wait to give these new changes a try. I won't say it will be too much/not enough until I get to try them myself, but I kinda want to comment on them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600>   - Breath of the Tyrant and Immolation no longer share the same reuse timer.<BR>   - Ball of Flames and Ball of Fire no longer share the same reuse timer.<BR>   - Piercing Icicles and Icy Coil no longer share the same reuse timer.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now there will pretty much always be something to cast to do damage. It's going to be hard to find time to mana feed. Getting Ball of Flames and Immolation will be huge for wizards now on their way to 50.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600> - Ball of Flame now has a cast time of 2 seconds and a recast time of 6 seconds</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is pretty big. Only two seconds now. As our second best nuke, this baby is going to get a workout. We'll be able to bust them out pretty quickly now, and will probably cast it the most. Unless Ice Comet is up, or your debuffs are down, you'll probably bust it whenever it's up, which will be quite often with the new recast. This is going to eat our mana like nothing else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600>- Burning Intimidation now does 4 times its previous amount of damage.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Isn't this the higher level stun we get? I'm not logged on right now, but I don't recall ever using this for it's damage. Maybe now I will. I'd rather of had it with a casting time divided by 4. I'd like to stun raid mobs, but this thing has such a long cast time that it's impossible. Even if it does 4x damage, it still doesn't work well as a stun. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this, and I'll edit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600> - Immolation now deals 2 additional ticks of heat damage at 120% of the initial instant damage. The cast time has been increased to 3 seconds and the recast time is now 21 seconds.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is huge. Since it doesn't cost anymore mana than it did previously (I hope so, at least) this spell will do some very effecient damage. It's got a long recast timer now, but it also does more than triple the damage. This spell is much different now. It's like a big damage, but short duration dot. This will be intresting to throw into the mix.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600> - Ice Comet's damage has been increased 275%, and its reuse time is now 45 seconds.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll admit that I'm excited to be in the higher rankings of the most damage done by a magical attack on my server, but this isn't that big of a change, I don't think. The new recast timer is a little less than 2.75 times the original so it's a small boost in DPS. It will be easier to cast all our other spells more often though, since we will only have to worry about Ice Comet every 45 seconds. Should be pretty good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600>- Freeze and Daenor's Lingering Frost now do 3 times their previous amount of damage.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I haven't used Freeze in a long time, but I remember it being pretty good back in the day. The Training option for it is now upgraded as well. I don't think it works on higher level monsters, but this was an awesome stun that I used to use all the time. Big improvement for that level range.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff6600>   - Icy Coil's initial instant damage has been increased 350%.<BR>   - Piercing Icicles now deals 200% additional instant piercing damage.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pretty cool (pun definitly intended.) Now we can do some decent damage for those long dot cast times. The big question (as already stated) is do they stack? If they do, the debuff should be pretty solid. Still have to reapply alot, but might not be so bad since they actually do some damage. Will still drain your mana though. Good old fast casting incinerate might actually be removed from my hotbars now. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's definitly going to be an ajustment, but I can't wait to see if I can actually do some mean damage to raid mobs now. Maybe even get aggro? Seems like mana is going to be a pretty big issue now. Going to be a hassle to juggle mana feeds to myself and others while still nuking alot. Can't wait to test it out and see how playing a wizard be. I do wish I could have tried it out in an exp group though. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: Used <FONT color=#ff6600>colors.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Twinsun on <span class=date_text>02-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:31 PM</span>

[EvilAmi]

<DIV>How much damage does Ice Comet currently do?</DIV>

[Magu]

BTW that sound that you hear while reading this, is called the Hallelujah Chorus by Handel, just a little fyi. ohh and walmart is haveing a sale of underpants and papertowels, again fyi.

[Articulas]

<DIV>hmm interesting. Wizards come out on top in this patch if everything goes off and other clases get screw balled bad. not only that but they are nefing all mounts. a better way to handle the mount situation would be to decrease the speed of the mount in combat. not a permanent thing. and btw SOE just a refreasher you already nerfed the horses once before the game was released you didnt' need to do it again, and if it was becoming a problem you could have done something that made sense like. hmmm my suggestion above. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BOYS AND GIRLS! wizards came out on top on this one but guess what, now our tanks won't be able to hold aggro, and every other class got screwed... but i bet we can solo real well, guess its going to be EQLive all over again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>they killed tradeskills to. why they don't like their tradeskill community i have no idea but hey if they want to shoot themselves in the foot thats fine with me. all i know is SOE is gong to be playing damage control for the next few weeks and other Games numbers are going to go up.</DIV>

[Darien al'Staff]

<DIV>Is that all you can do?  Complain?<BR><BR><BR>Here.  Let me poitn you to the REST of the notes.  "ALL tanks are getting improvements that will help them hold agro"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>..-.-</DIV>

[Wu]

<DIV>While I think the changes are nice and good I wonder some things:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DD/DoT-Spells:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Spell "Heat Stroke" or the Training Version is not addressed. From its describition It should do instant damage and a DoT Effect. Currently it does only the DoT Damage which is in terms of casttime (~5 secs) and DMG (51 per Tick with Training (Adept II)) @ Level 40 nearly total useless. The instant Damage is missing here, the DoT is compared to icy coil adept III (~80 dmg per tick) a longer cast and lower dmg and has no debuff component (with trainig there is a "chance" of stifle only).</DIV> <DIV>While its beeing nice that Breath of Tyrant / Immolation are updated the use of Plasmatic Pulse is another total useless spell. Beeing a 30+ DD it deals 120-180 Instant DMG even with Adept III. What aboút this spell?</DIV> <DIV>Ball of Fire / Flame: Beeing no more on the same timer is dmg-wise nice, very nice. But from terms of a conceptional view it makes no sense. The adressed the problem that the Flame Version doing the same damage like the Fire by reducing casttime, which is good, but instead of laying it on the same timer I would have seen a dmg upgrade instead, I mean I like old spells beeing replaced more than the use of 6 Hotbars with Spellicons (Currently using 4 full hotbars with usefull spells).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stun-Spells:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Upgrade to Freeze is nice. But why is next in-line stun on a very long cast and recast Timer? I mean on most 35+ Mobs you cant use Freeze because "target to mighty" and are forced to use the next-in line stun (dont know the name exactly atm) which is not even close as good as freeze.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Root-Spells:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Same for stun goes with Tether and Freezing Manacles. You get a upgrade which is actually not as good as the lower level spell in terms of casttime, duration, power consumptation and effect. I mean I know they arnt the same spell line (same with the above mentioned stun spell) because they were added after the spell revamp back in Beta but than their "upgrade" spell is missing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than that, I am very happy and I think these changes will help and make fun, but I think there are still some thinks left to tune.</DIV>

[Supafroi]

<DIV>MAx ICe comet at ad3 is around 1400 x 275% =  3000-<STRONG>3850</STRONG> every  45 seconds?</DIV>

[QQ-Fatman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Supafroius wrote:<BR> <DIV>MAx ICe comet at ad3 is around 1400 x 275% =  3000-<STRONG>3850</STRONG> every  45 seconds?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> which means wizard will be the solo king. 3000~3850 damage can probably kill a level 50 solo mob in 1 hit...lol

[batem]

I am glad they seem to have fixed wizards. Unforunately I quit on january 6th, and preordered WoW which arrived in my mailbox today in time for tomorrows Euro launch. So while these changes seem great, its to late for many of us. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Articulas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Darien al'Staff wrote:<BR> <DIV>Is that all you can do?  Complain?<BR><BR><BR>Here.  Let me poitn you to the REST of the notes.  "ALL tanks are getting improvements that will help them hold agro"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>..-.-</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>complain? YES i'm gong to complain! they are taking away fun parts of the game! the tanks are getting improvment to mitigation, but last time i checked if we are doing more damage and they aren't doing more taunting guess what? we're dead! i saw no where in that article where they are getting imporvment to hold agro!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as well apparantly you don't tradeskill, or own a mount. or else you'd be just as irked as i am.</DIV>

[Ennis]

<blockquote><hr>QQFatman wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>which means wizard will be the solo king. 3000~3850 damage can probably kill a level 50 solo mob in 1 hit...lol<hr></blockquote>Depending on the mob's resists....

[Ennis]

<blockquote><hr>Articulas wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>complain? YES i'm gong to complain! they are taking away fun parts of the game! the tanks are getting improvment to mitigation, but last time i checked if we are doing more damage and they aren't doing more taunting guess what? we're dead! i saw no where in that article where they are getting imporvment to hold agro!</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>as well apparantly you don't tradeskill, or own a mount. or else you'd be just as irked as i am.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Guess what?That IS the way it should be!Nuking is an fine art, how far can you push your DPS without drawing aggro away from the tank and on to yourself. It is like surfing, you want to be on the edge but not go over. You go over you wipe out.Those Wizards who master the art of aggro management will be much in demand now. Those who overburn, do not understand that every group is different so you have to adjust your strategy to the dynamics of that group and have no idea of how to manage aggro will find themselves still LFG.

[Woodmanse]

<DIV>Looks great cant wait for it to go live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Devious Po]

<DIV>i like the idea about mounts only being nerfed in combat, but not in normally game play.  i don't know if soe wants to slow us down even more, or i say just give us swoop bikes!!!!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i'm not gonna be quick to judge on the patch till i tested it, and i'm not gonna make another lvl 50 toon on test to try stuff out.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>finally somethings look good, some don't.    we'll see how the changes all shapes out.</DIV>

[Azmoran]

I was hoping for "We have fired the [FaarNerfed!] that copy and pasted lower level spells and just renamed them, so now spells will scale properly in dmg as you level."

[Woodmanse]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devious Polo wrote:<BR> <DIV>or i say just give us swoop bikes!!!!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Lol... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Flying dragon mounts that attacked might fit alittle better. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Devious Po]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Woodmanseee wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Devious Polo wrote:<BR> <DIV>or i say just give us swoop bikes!!!!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Lol... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Flying dragon mounts that attacked might fit alittle better. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>lol, ya that would work too =P<BR></DIV>

[Farago]

<DIV>I figured they would do something eventually. I am pleased to hear the changes although i think there is more to address..I didnt hear them mention westfends's ice spear so im assuming it will still be on the BoF timer. I will definately need to rearrange my hotkeys..Cant wait for 50 though, we have a 50 sage in my guild..BOOM BOOM TIME!!</DIV>

[Articulas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ennis wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Articulas wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> complain? YES i'm gong to complain! they are taking away fun parts of the game! the tanks are getting improvment to mitigation, but last time i checked if we are doing more damage and they aren't doing more taunting guess what? we're dead! i saw no where in that article where they are getting imporvment to hold agro! <DIV>as well apparantly you don't tradeskill, or own a mount. or else you'd be just as irked as i am.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Guess what?<BR><BR>That IS the way it should be!<BR><BR>Nuking is an fine art, how far can you push your DPS without drawing aggro away from the tank and on to yourself. It is like surfing, you want to be on the edge but not go over. You go over you wipe out.<BR><BR>Those Wizards who master the art of aggro management will be much in demand now. Those who overburn, do not understand that every group is different so you have to adjust your strategy to the dynamics of that group and have no idea of how to manage aggro will find themselves still LFG.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>sorry but thats an EQLive mentality. its unoriginal and i dont' believe in it one iota. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Stavenh]

Well, here is what Moorgard has to say about over all changes to mages:Mages are intended to to do a lot of damage at the price of being frail defensively. With this major update, wizards and warlocks will see a damage output increase of up to 300% in the case of many key spells. These changes, affecting the classes from 20 to 50, should put them at the top of the heap when it comes to damage output. We are still in the process of evaluating changes to summoners and enchanters, but recent DoT stacking changes, bug fixes in this update, and buff timer changes (see below) should help the other mage professions feel more useful and powerful until their damage output can be thoroughly assessed. And he also said that the DPS order has always meant to be Mage, Scout, Fighter, Priest but current ranking is Fighter, scout, mage, priest.

[Fli]

<DIV><EM>"</EM>Ball of Fire Adept1/Adept3 <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Does not increase max dmg, apparent average dmg, apparent resists,  but it does cost more power."</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Hmmm - I dont see this.  When I bought Ball of Fire Adept 3, I noticed a massive increase of damage over the Adept 1 version.  I went from consistant 460 ish max hits to about 520 ish max hits at the time I got the spell.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Now, at level 31, my max hit is 630.</STRONG></DIV></DIV>

[adamflanagan]

can anyone link me to the update notes, i can't seem to find them on the forums and i'm at school now so can't read them on the loader. thanks

[Arkanj]

<blockquote><hr>Articulas wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Ennis wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Articulas wrote:<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>complain? YES i'm gong to complain! they are taking away fun parts of the game! the tanks are getting improvment to mitigation, but last time i checked if we are doing more damage and they aren't doing more taunting guess what? we're dead! i saw no where in that article where they are getting imporvment to hold agro!<DIV>as well apparantly you don't tradeskill, or own a mount. or else you'd be just as irked as i am.</DIV><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Guess what?<BR><BR>That IS the way it should be!<BR><BR>Nuking is an fine art, how far can you push your DPS without drawing aggro away from the tank and on to yourself. It is like surfing, you want to be on the edge but not go over. You go over you wipe out.<BR><BR>Those Wizards who master the art of aggro management will be much in demand now. Those who overburn, do not understand that every group is different so you have to adjust your strategy to the dynamics of that group and have no idea of how to manage aggro will find themselves still LFG.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>sorry but thats an EQLive mentality. its unoriginal and i dont' believe in it one iota. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><hr></blockquote>Uhh... sir... Moorguard posted that this IS to be the case. What else do you need to believe it? If G-d himself handed it to you on stone tablets on top of a mountain, would you be statsfied?Seriously shut UP and enjoy the buffs we're being given. They're well deserved.Way to go dev team!

[Jast]

<DIV>Awesome! Order has been restored to the universe.... or at least it is a move in the right direction! </DIV>

[Articulas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arkanjul wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Articulas wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ennis wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Articulas wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> complain? YES i'm gong to complain! they are taking away fun parts of the game! the tanks are getting improvment to mitigation, but last time i checked if we are doing more damage and they aren't doing more taunting guess what? we're dead! i saw no where in that article where they are getting imporvment to hold agro! <DIV>as well apparantly you don't tradeskill, or own a mount. or else you'd be just as irked as i am.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Guess what?<BR><BR>That IS the way it should be!<BR><BR>Nuking is an fine art, how far can you push your DPS without drawing aggro away from the tank and on to yourself. It is like surfing, you want to be on the edge but not go over. You go over you wipe out.<BR><BR>Those Wizards who master the art of aggro management will be much in demand now. Those who overburn, do not understand that every group is different so you have to adjust your strategy to the dynamics of that group and have no idea of how to manage aggro will find themselves still LFG.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>sorry but thats an EQLive mentality. its unoriginal and i dont' believe in it one iota. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Uhh... sir... Moorguard posted that this IS to be the case. What else do you need to believe it? If G-d himself handed it to you on stone tablets on top of a mountain, would you be statsfied?<BR><BR>Seriously shut UP and enjoy the buffs we're being given. They're well deserved.<BR><BR>Way to go dev team!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>perhaps you should look at where this game is going sir. most EQLive vets are recognizing the symptoms right off the bat! its heading to EQLive ALL OVER AGAIN! the tanks will not be able to hold aggro off of us, i gurrentee it. you can play fanboi all you want but thats whats going to happen.  and after a few expansions come out people really aren't going to like it if they keep heading in this direction. and you sir should practice what you preach. groups are going to want us yes. we'll have to hold back our best nuke, yes, we might even have to sit through half the fight before we can nuke so the tank can gain aggro efficintly enough. do we really want to sit there half the freaking night watching people play or jump in and play ourselves? sorry they told me this wasn't EQLive and wasn't going to be Like EQLive but from what we are seeing its going to be just like it. same with Tradeskills in the end its going to be a habit for the rich.</DIV>

[killzo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Articulas wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <DIV>perhaps you should look at where this game is going sir. most EQLive vets are recognizing the symptoms right off the bat! its heading to EQLive ALL OVER AGAIN! the tanks will not be able to hold aggro off of us, i gurrentee it. you can play fanboi all you want but thats whats going to happen.  and after a few expansions come out people really aren't going to like it if they keep heading in this direction. and you sir should practice what you preach. groups are going to want us yes. we'll have to hold back our best nuke, yes, we might even have to sit through half the fight before we can nuke so the tank can gain aggro efficintly enough. do we really want to sit there half the freaking night watching people play or jump in and play ourselves? sorry they told me this wasn't EQLive and wasn't going to be Like EQLive but from what we are seeing its going to be just like it. same with Tradeskills in the end its going to be a habit for the rich.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>What are you trying to say?  If they didn't up the dps of Wizards then they might as well remove the class from the game.  No one was playing them and people didn't want them in groups.</DIV>

[Articulas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> killzone wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Articulas wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <DIV>perhaps you should look at where this game is going sir. most EQLive vets are recognizing the symptoms right off the bat! its heading to EQLive ALL OVER AGAIN! the tanks will not be able to hold aggro off of us, i gurrentee it. you can play fanboi all you want but thats whats going to happen.  and after a few expansions come out people really aren't going to like it if they keep heading in this direction. and you sir should practice what you preach. groups are going to want us yes. we'll have to hold back our best nuke, yes, we might even have to sit through half the fight before we can nuke so the tank can gain aggro efficintly enough. do we really want to sit there half the freaking night watching people play or jump in and play ourselves? sorry they told me this wasn't EQLive and wasn't going to be Like EQLive but from what we are seeing its going to be just like it. same with Tradeskills in the end its going to be a habit for the rich.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>What are you trying to say?  If they didn't up the dps of Wizards then they might as well remove the class from the game.  No one was playing them and people didn't want them in groups.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not saying anything of the sort. i'm saying they need to work with tank taunts. i don't mind the wizard upgrades those are fine.  but if we have a big nuke and that tank taunt doesn't hold it? well then we are toast. they need to work with tanks and mitigation upgrades ain't going to cut it.<BR>

[sglant]

<DIV>While it will be nice to cause more damage, it will be on us to control our nuking. Currently, we can chain nuke to our hearts content. With these changes, we will have to control ourselves and hold back. Its called responsibility.</DIV> <DIV>But, if you want to take aggro and die, by all means, chain nuke these spells that cause 250%+ more damage. It sure wont be the tanks fault you died.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Supafroi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> adamflanagan wrote:<BR>can anyone link me to the update notes, i can't seem to find them on the forums and i'm at school now so can't read them on the loader. thanks<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> the top of this thread buddy...

[Kazzi]

<DIV>Nuking and agro management is a fine art, heh thats funny.  More dps but no way to reduce agro = liability more than a boon.  So you are gonna throw all those debuff on a mob then alternate between the two big nuke until mob goes bye bye, fine art indeed.  Oh wait, but if you do that then the mob gonna be super [Removed for Content] at you, so you have to sacrafice either not debuffing or not nuking when u can.  The initial damage of many dots double or tripled their current damage, but currently they only doing what in the 100 range so it isn't all that big of a deal, if they upped the dot damage and duration and leave the initial damage as it is, that is better imho.</DIV>

[Cecil_Stri]

<DIV>Articulas.... I dunno if your comments are even worth a comment but....   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What would you rather hapen.   We get a nerf so tanks can REALLY hold aggro even better?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Articulas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cecil_Strife wrote:<BR> <DIV>Articulas.... I dunno if your comments are even worth a comment but....   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What would you rather hapen.   We get a nerf so tanks can REALLY hold aggro even better?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>you didn't even read my comment did you?</P> <P> </P> <P>EDIT: okay i'll be nice- i said "I think the tanks should have better taunts after the wizards are upgraded"  in so many words thats what i said.</P><p>Message Edited by Articulas on <span class=date_text>02-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:20 AM</span>

[Stavenh]

I understand you Art. Higher damage, in this case about a 300% increase, with no balance in terms of the tanks ability to hold aggro will result in wizards and warlocks dying only faster. Or some of them. My strategy as a nuker has always been to start of low and build my damage.Maybe it just the person I group with the most, a Paladin who does more work to hold aggro and doesn't worry about his damage output, but he holds aggro great. Between always taunting, healing and what not, he seldom loses aggro when I chain cast. I know a couple guardians, and frankly they have trouble holding aggro. I'm not sure why, if healing is the main reason, or it they just aren't doing enough other stuff to hold aggro.

[Articulas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>I understand you Art. Higher damage, in this case about a 300% increase, with no balance in terms of the tanks ability to hold aggro will result in wizards and warlocks dying only faster. Or some of them. My strategy as a nuker has always been to start of low and build my damage.<BR><BR>Maybe it just the person I group with the most, a Paladin who does more work to hold aggro and doesn't worry about his damage output, but he holds aggro great. Between always taunting, healing and what not, he seldom loses aggro when I chain cast. <BR><BR>I know a couple guardians, and frankly they have trouble holding aggro. I'm not sure why, if healing is the main reason, or it they just aren't doing enough other stuff to hold aggro.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Exacatly! my main tank i group with is a pally to and i've never had to start off slow. i've always started off with the best nuke i've got and kept at it. i've never pulled aggro from the man, but with these changes i think thats going to change <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  going to have to change my stratagy altogether. more like my stratagy of a lvl 66 wizard in EQLive. which i can live with it. i did it for 2 years in EQ. i'm just not happy about it.

[Arkanj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Articulas wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stavenham wrote:<BR>I understand you Art. Higher damage, in this case about a 300% increase, with no balance in terms of the tanks ability to hold aggro will result in wizards and warlocks dying only faster. Or some of them. My strategy as a nuker has always been to start of low and build my damage.<BR><BR>Maybe it just the person I group with the most, a Paladin who does more work to hold aggro and doesn't worry about his damage output, but he holds aggro great. Between always taunting, healing and what not, he seldom loses aggro when I chain cast. <BR><BR>I know a couple guardians, and frankly they have trouble holding aggro. I'm not sure why, if healing is the main reason, or it they just aren't doing enough other stuff to hold aggro.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Exacatly! my main tank i group with is a pally to and i've never had to start off slow. i've always started off with the best nuke i've got and kept at it. i've never pulled aggro from the man, but with these changes i think thats going to change <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  going to have to change my stratagy altogether. more like my stratagy of a lvl 66 wizard in EQLive. which i can live with it. i did it for 2 years in EQ. i'm just not happy about it.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You just described a very boring way to play.  So what, you just chain nuked every fight?  Where's the challenge?  A monkey could play a Wizard as good as well as a person if that's all there was to it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now you'll have to reign yourself in.  What's the problem?  You'll be able to DO the huge damage, you just WON'T on every single occasion because... well... it'll get you killed.  More groups will want you (if you can control your aggro) BUT you'll become more picky when it comes to choosing groups.  Find those tanks with adept 3 taunts, they're out there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As the game stands, it is near impossible for a Wizard to even THINK about drawing aggro off of the main tank.  Thus, every Wizard and Warlock I know chain-nukes to try and keep up.  Now we'll not only have the ABILITY to dish out enough damage to draw aggro off the main tank, we'll have to try hard NOT to.  THAT is what being a Wizard is all about!  You've got the power... but are you good enough to wield it without being squashed?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Concerning the "EQ vets know OMG" comment: I played Everquest from the first week it went live, for over 4 years.  Do you consider me an EQ vet?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also: those of you with Pally comments... at level 48 (I think) Paladins get a spell that they cast on another player in the group and, while it's active, about 50-70% of the aggro generated by that player gets transferred to the Paladin.  I'd assume that other tanks get something similiar (I normally group with a Pally tank).  When this goes live we're definately going to do some testing with that spell and me chain-nuking... although I'm prepared to die many, many times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are getting our power.  This is what separates the true Wizards from the button mashers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[TiitanTa]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR> Articulas wrote:<BR> My main tank I group with is a pally too and I've never had to start off slow.  I've always started off with the best nuke I've got and kept at it.<BR> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Chain casting non-stop is kind of dull.  Is that really your preference?</P>

[TiitanTa]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arkanjul wrote: <DIV>You just described a very boring way to play.  So what, you just chain nuked every fight?  Where's the challenge?  A monkey could play a Wizard as good as well as a person if that's all there was to it.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, what he said.<BR>

[Articulas]

<DIV>sitting around half a fight is dull to</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT:oh yea thats all soloing is as well is button mashing. thats all we wizards do is button mash. its our job. rather its cut back a bit or not its still our job and will forever be our job rather we like it or not. but i can tell you this. we will be the best solo'ers in the game after this so its not all a bad change. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Articulas on <span class=date_text>02-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:36 AM</span>

[Kazzi]

<DIV>Ok so we can do huge amt of damage now but we can't else we will die, we have to reign in our power....so whats the difference than before?  If you do more damage than you does before you will get agro, but if u don't use your new power u will be just like before.  </DIV>

[falconpr]

<DIV>Listen I think this is great.  All you people who feel you will be bored sitting can either mash your weaker old spells to give you that busy keyboard feeling you seem to yearn for, or do the same with top nukes and die.   Me, I prefer to be able to be considered a skilled player because I expect to learn how to manage our hopefully soon to be "greatest DPS *potential* by a huge margin (as well as greatest DPS overall at the edge of the 'non-aggro' range').  I feel part of playing games and actually enjoying them is having some challenge.  I like to play on the edge so to speak and I want to be known for that ability.   I don't necessarily feel taunts shouldn't be improved somewhat, however, not to the degree that we are completely safe to do as we please chain casting Adept 3 BoF... BoFL ... Ice Comet ...rinse and repeat...and not expect to get aggro occasionally, or often even.  I lke the idea of being hugely higher by way of timers alone in the *potential* DPS area.  I stress the potential part for reasons mentioned above, as well the timer increase for BoF and BoFL keeps BOT plat hunters from benefiting directly from much of these changes</DIV><p>Message Edited by falconpray on <span class=date_text>02-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:44 AM</span>

[Articulas]

<DIV>EDIT: bah its just not worth talking about anymore</DIV><p>Message Edited by Articulas on <span class=date_text>02-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:24 PM</span>

[Arkanj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kazzien wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok so we can do huge amt of damage now but we can't else we will die, we have to reign in our power....so whats the difference than before?  If you do more damage than you does before you will get agro, but if u don't use your new power u will be just like before.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Uhh... do you know how to play?  Currently we are UNABLE to put out a great amount of damage, meaning that fighters and scouts are easily outdamaging us in every circumstance.  After this patch, our damage output capability will be a LOT bigger than it is now.  What does that mean?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You find the line between max DPS and aggro.  You burn down adds.  You open up at the very end of the fight.  You BE A POWERFUL, DANGEROUS WIZARD!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point isn't to "never use your new power" it's to use it intelligently and cautiously.  It's there to be used, you just can't expect to spam all your biggest nukes over and over and not die.  Isn't that... the point of any glass cannon class?</DIV>

[Stavenh]

Quote: The point isn't to "never use your new power" it's to use it intelligently and cautiously.  It's there to be used, you just can't expect to spam all your biggest nukes over and over and not die.  Isn't that... the point of any glass cannon class?Well said, use it intelligently. Also, a glass cannon that is over used will shatter, will it not? It takes the right amount finesse to get the max without shattering the cannon.I'm already thinking how to organize my strategy for the upcoming changes.I think Plasmatic pulse is going to come into play more. I love that spell, it's what I call my jab jab spell. Quick damage with little risk of pulling aggro, so I can do DPS all the time, the Wham! big spell. I use it to advance my HOs. Debuff, debuff, HO/Plasmatic Pulse, Ball of fire BOOM. BoTT, PP, PP, HO/PP you get the picture. jab jab PUNCH, jab jab PUNCH.I've tried the tounge twist/benumb, but their recast time doesn't work as well. They advance the HO in a second, but it's got a long recast time, while PP is quick.Still to each thier own.<p>Message Edited by Stavenham on <span class=date_text>02-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:02 AM</span>

[TheC]

<DIV>It's funny to see the other classes complaining now, saying that wizards are getting a 300% dmg increase.  All that's happening is now high level mages will do the right dmg.  As a level 28 wiz these changes barely effect me and my DPS won't go up at all ( not saying it should since I deal the right amount of DPS now).  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Love the changes!</DIV>

[Farago]

<DIV>I dont know bout some of you but aggro management was key in EQ1. You had to adjust in every group you were in. So what is the big deal that we will have to do the same in EQ2. I was surprised at first when I could chain nuke without pulling aggro. There is no reward without risk. Being a wizard isnt about point click and nuke. I could get my 2 year old son to do that.  Learning how to control it is what will make you desirable to other groups. Plus we can feed mana which for some isnt being a "wizard" but anything that helps me get a group is worth it. I would rather play with the changes before i start flaming them...It's wasted energy...all we need now is concussion</DIV>

[Lakespookie]

<DIV>Fargone you hit the nail right on the head we are wizzrds our thing is damage thats what we do we trade every other skill for that if you dont understand that then your playing the wrong class to the people that think other classes are getting gimped your totaly inccorect we cant just chain burn things because of aggro</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>for those of you that say well iots eq1 all over again its not not by far its better if you reade our class discription in both games there identical </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However the diffrence is that in eq1 we were still geting out parsed and dpsed by rogues so we never lived up to our class discripiton</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i like most wizardes here had the fear that the same would happen seeing how we were getting out parsed by scouts it was like the same story alover again however if this works out the way i think sony has it interperted then thank you sony for finally getting it right </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the wizard is one of the hardest classes to play yeah we can burn a mob down if things get dicy but wre are burst dps not sustained dps we have to contend with aggro/ mana management/ no HP/ no AC/ and limited armor choices thats the life of a wizard if you cant deal with that go play another class if you play another class stop crying about how were so powerfull a solo wizard will almost never be able to take to many things out the minute you get a linked mob your done.... ive seen scouts run backwards kitting double up arrow yellows i dont care how much damage we do we will never do that no ac hp for that its not what we do. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>THANK YOU SONY AND MORGAURD FOR FINALY HAVING OUR CLASS LIVE UP TO ITS BILLING OR AT LEAST MAKING A LEAP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION I'VE BEEN WAITING 6 YRS FOR THIS <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as far as the patch it might not be perfect but well see how it goes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.s. YEAH CONCUSSION WOULD BE NICE </DIV><p>Message Edited by Lakespookie on <span class=date_text>02-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:21 AM</span>

[SoranSlith]

<DIV>awesome!</DIV>

[Ulke]

<DIV>this patch def perked my ears. yeah itll be harder for tanks to keep agro, but i like it that way. i want to have to manage my dmg output because i should have the sheer ability to rip the mob off a tank. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>not to mention with the agro debuff spell, and agro debuff ability i have, i think i will be using them more often. should make things interesting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as with every big change, just wait and see what's gonna happen before yall complain to much. maybe they will see the problems with tank agro, if there are lots of problems, and head the direction of fixing the issue.  </DIV>

[ultras]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arkanjul wrote :<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point isn't to "never use your new power" it's to use it intelligently and cautiously.  It's there to be used, you just can't expect to spam all your biggest nukes over and over and not die.  Isn't that... the point of any glass cannon class?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Well said.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Good points by Art too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said...I think the key lies in learning about individual mobs and WHEN you can nuke [ 1) at the start 2) later ]...we finally have this option of choosing WHEN to nuke with different mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[kenji]

<DIV>from my view of a templer...big nukes = good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>grats Wiz, u finally got what u need <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> welcome to DPS / real Burst role <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Articulas wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>sorry but thats an EQLive mentality. its unoriginal and i dont' believe in it one iota. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Respectfully, It would be more accurate to call this game EQ1.5 then to call it EQ2.</P> <P>If this game was SOOO different from EQ1, then you wouldn't automatically equate an increase in DPS with an increased need for taunts. </P> <P>The fact you immediately raise that point shows you are applying EQ1 thinking to this game. I don't fault you for it. I stopped believing the "EQ2 is not EQ1" lie a long time ago.</P> <P>Good hate reduction, strong crowd control, and mana consuming runes are other ways to deal with over agro issues. Why not point out a lack of these? EQ1 style taunting is not the only way the game can be played.<BR></P>

[Ennis]

Articulas,Only one who never mastered the arcane arts would claim the idea to be "unoriginal".Only one who lacks the knowledge of their class, the knowledge of what their spells are and how to use them would claim the idea to be "unoriginal".Only one who can not see the artistry in being both subtle and exceptionally deadly would claim the idea to be "unoriginal".You, it seems, would prefer to have the melee classes be given "ubertaunt" to cover for your ineptitude at aggro management and playing your class in general. That may work for you but I would imagine that the majority of us do not need "crutches" such as this.

[Zheff]

<DIV>Let's all try the new changes before we argue about what reciprocal fighter changes are needed to compensate for them.</DIV>

[Fraglander.be]

<DIV>It seems alot of the changes were highlvl, but I think the lowlvls wizzies aren't very balanced either...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For example:</DIV> <DIV>I was playing my lvl 26 wizzy near RoV just a few minutes ago and wanted to solo a green wolf pack. So what I did was, I cast a ball of flame on the pack leader, followed by a root. I then swtiched to another target and that's about how far I have gotten. My EVERY SINGLE spell was interrupted, the only damage I did was the BoF on the packleader (note, interrupted, not fizzled). I had full health, full mana and full buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Okay, maybe the pack wasn't such a good idea (note however that I could easily solo them with a healer of the same level... The ward and occasional buffs would do just fine), let's head to RoV then and see if I can't find a group. Well, that didn't work, there were a few in RoV but none of them were in need of a wiz.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I head back out, soloing some skellies and all of a sudden I get aggro off a skeletal footsoldier (blue solo). I root him, he breaks through, I cast BoT, he interrupts, I cast Skeleton Master Strike, HOORAY, first hit, I cast BoF, he interrupts again, I run... Story of my wizzies life. (on the plus side, I have become very attached to my JBoots...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So even after the changes, I think I will retire my wizzy and continue playing with just my healer <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV>I don't even like healing... And I'm not all that good at healing, but at least I don't die just about every time I log him on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still I think it is fantastic that SoE has listened to the constant flow of complains and that they have done something about it. I hope to be able to reconsider my decision at one point.</DIV>

[-Go-N-PoSTa]

<DIV>Paladins also get a spell to draw ALL agro from ALL players from that current moment. with a long recast timer. unfortunatly if they try to lay hands its possable to interupt it...so I dont use it when theres several mobs swarming...just let the over nuker die so he cant do it again later. Save someone worth saving.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: was going to edit for spelling/grammer but to [FaarNerfed!] tired at 4:30am..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by -Go-N-PoSTaL- on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:39 AM</span>

[Articulas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ennis wrote:<BR>Articulas,<BR><BR>Only one who never mastered the arcane arts would claim the idea to be "unoriginal".<BR><BR>Only one who lacks the knowledge of their class, the knowledge of what their spells are and how to use them would claim the idea to be "unoriginal".<BR><BR>Only one who can not see the artistry in being both subtle and exceptionally deadly would claim the idea to be "unoriginal".<BR><BR>You, it seems, would prefer to have the melee classes be given "ubertaunt" to cover for your ineptitude at aggro management and playing your class in general. That may work for you but I would imagine that the majority of us do not need "crutches" such as this.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>boy  you people just love to flame others opinions lol i thnk you want an EQLive wizard but i could care less. matter of fact i don't think you even read the whole thread. i said i dont' mind it going this way but i'd perfer it not to. we are the new kings in this gam eyou can take that to the bank ennis. but look at the world around you for once instead of just looking at our class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and by the way you don't know me so don't even think i havent mastered a wizard in EQLive or this game. i just have a matter of opinion on where this should go.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Articulas on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:29 AM</span>

[Ennis]

<blockquote><hr>Articulas wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Ennis wrote:<BR>Articulas,<BR><BR>Only one who never mastered the arcane arts would claim the idea to be "unoriginal".<BR><BR>Only one who lacks the knowledge of their class, the knowledge of what their spells are and how to use them would claim the idea to be "unoriginal".<BR><BR>Only one who can not see the artistry in being both subtle and exceptionally deadly would claim the idea to be "unoriginal".<BR><BR>You, it seems, would prefer to have the melee classes be given "ubertaunt" to cover for your ineptitude at aggro management and playing your class in general. That may work for you but I would imagine that the majority of us do not need "crutches" such as this.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV>boy you people just love to flame others opinions lol i thnk you want an EQLive wizard but i could care less. matter of fact i don't think you even read the whole thread. i said i dont' mind it going this way but i'd perfer it not to. we are the new kings in this gam eyou can take that to the bank ennis. but look at the world around you for once instead of just looking at our class.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>and by the way you don't know me so don't even think i havent mastered a wizard in EQLive or this game. i just have a matter of opinion on where this should go.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Articulas on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:29 AM</span><hr></blockquote>Look in the mirror if you want to see flamage. You are the one who is flaming anyone who doesn't agree with you. You want to sit there and bang away at the big nuke button all day without any consequences for your actions. You want it too easy. I don't.And I highly doubt you mastered playing an EQ1 Wizard judging by your comments. In fact I would imagine you had a great reputation for being either an overburner or one who had no clue as to handle aggro management that you sat on your a&& for half the fight afraid to nuke.

[Articulas]

<DIV>you know what ennis- i apologize. i just went back over the thread and my attitude has been flaming myself. i should not have resorted to that and i want to apologize to you for that. and to the others i have flamed.</DIV>

[Articulas]

<DIV>actually i had a great reputation for sitting there most of the time staring at the mob and nuking only when it got below 50%. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT: and it wasn't because of i was scared of aggro, it was because i had to conserve a small power pool of about 4K, even with mana regean +5 it wasn't keeping with the others i was grouping with. matter of fact the group i normally grouped with the only crowd control we had was me and a Necro. so aggro was my friend many times.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Articulas on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:27 AM</span>

[Stavenh]

Ennis and Art, you're both are smart people. Can we reach some accord on this? I understand both views, and I think you two are just missing each others point of view a little bit.There does need to be challenge to the game. Wizards haven't seen an aggro problem before this because not only did tanks have ways to hold aggro, they also out damaged wizards. So with more damage and hate increasing spells, us wizard haven't had to watch our nuking before. Upping our damage returns that risk factor, and makes for a challenging game. Tanks need to be able to hold, maintain and recapture aggro. If our damage so out strips thier ability to do so, then what will happen over time, is wizards having to hold back thier true power, for fear of a death. If this happens, when will a wizard ever be able to fully unleash his awesoma powa?You both have excellent points, neither of you are asking for an easy game, or for someone else to do your work for you. There is little unity on ideas in this forum. There are many people that come here simply to attack others for personal reasons regardless of what they have to say.I've always looked at you two as level headed. You both have posted good advice and ideas. I hate to see this kind of fighting.The edits where for typos. Even though this keyboard is new, it seems to miss keys when typing. Macs, go figure.<p>Message Edited by Stavenham on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:42 AM</span><p>Message Edited by Stavenham on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:43 AM</span><p>Message Edited by Stavenham on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:44 AM</span>

[Widgetblaster]

<DIV>I think it says a lot that these changes have turned Ennis's attitude around...I remember her being pretty cheesed off a few weeks ago about wizards in general. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Articulas]

<DIV>and they are good changes  marcalus <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>staven, i've been a bit brash in this thread more so than usual. and its not the wizard changes that have done it, its the mount and tradeskill changes coming up that has me in a sour mood. i should not have let that slip in the wizard forums but i did and whats done is done. i apologized to Ennis and if she wants me to do it 3 or 4 more times i will, i went over board on a few of my comments on this thread. its just taken me a few days to get used to the coming changes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but yeesh dont' ever think i'm knocking the wizard changes those are a godsend <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Aad]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Arkanjul wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kazzien wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ok so we can do huge amt of damage now but we can't else we will die, we have to reign in our power....so whats the difference than before?  If you do more damage than you does before you will get agro, but if u don't use your new power u will be just like before.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Uhh... do you know how to play?  Currently we are UNABLE to put out a great amount of damage, meaning that fighters and scouts are easily outdamaging us in every circumstance.  After this patch, our damage output capability will be a LOT bigger than it is now.  What does that mean?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You find the line between max DPS and aggro.  You burn down adds.  You open up at the very end of the fight.  You BE A POWERFUL, DANGEROUS WIZARD!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point isn't to "never use your new power" it's to use it intelligently and cautiously.  It's there to be used, you just can't expect to spam all your biggest nukes over and over and not die.  Isn't that... the point of any glass cannon class?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Haha thats the best reply i have ever seen. I totally agree with everything ark has been saying. Yesterday I saw a scout start whining and crying cause they kept dieing because he kept taking aggro...being a EQL vet (3 years playing) I told him to manage his aggro, and he replyed I shouldnt have to, I couldnt stop laughing in RL and even though its hard for me to get a group I decided to leave.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With these new changes I am also glad that ark made a point to mention this <P>"We are getting our power. This is what separates the true Wizards from the button mashers."</P> <P>Im thinking of making that my new signature... its true and its something I had to learn in EQL, Im glad im going to learn it here again (after dieing a lot im sure). Now though, I will be able to make a name for myself and I will have a group. I have already done that since even without this patch, i push out good dmg and am able to feed and buff (just cant type while doing it... feel like a EQL bard just to be able to keep up with a scouts and fighters dps.../sigh, sometimes priests), now I dont do great dmg but i make my usual groups are happy enough to keep me around, maybe its pity, but soon it wont be.</P> <P>As for aggro, I am not going to go find the quote but its in the update notes for feb 9th, moorguard did write taunt will be more effective... I sure hope it doesnt keep all the aggro to the tank though, people need to develop their skill and not just press buttons, otherwise this game is more a super mario bros. then a strategy game. </P> <P>Now you may not agree with me or not, but there is one thing we can all be sure of... he should have added a little more cow bell.</P> <P> <HR> </P> <P>Aaddr Aequitas - 45 Wizard - Officer of The Downward Spiral</P> <P><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=114944113" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=114944113</A></P></DIV>

[Aad]

<P>doubled, my appologies... im tired =p</P><p>Message Edited by Aaddr on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:04 AM</span>

[Stavenh]

I can see the changes to tradeskills as harsh for someone that was really into them. A lose of income for some. But I don't think Sony really wanted to see the first step in tradeskils become a stumbling block for people. It's only the refining process that is being changed, not the interim.Under the current system, all crafts where interdependate on two out of three levels (refine and interim) only the final combine (finish) was free of this. Getting to that final stage was annoying. First I had to find those refined items to make the few interim items I could make, then the one I couldn't. This slowed down being able to craft, and frankly, made it more of a chore. It's great to beable to make my own tempers now. I can convert all that carbonite clusters into bars quicker, and then make the next items faster. I will still need interim items for some of my carpenter items. I can't make spike and some tanned cords that I will need. This is good. Basically, alchemists had it great as every recipe had something they made. To make up for this, thier posions and potions really need to be fixed and it should be part of the next patch. I have no clue as to what potions an alchemist can make, if any. And I know a level 30 alchemist and they say that all they make is inks and tempers and resin and such. All I think this change to trades will do is push people towards more finished products rather then have the economy based more on refining and interim items.

[Skwor]

<DIV>I do see a big problem though. With the exception of sages all the other items do not decay in the economy. For example once I put a tailored item out it's out there forever. So it seems to me that tradeskilling to make money by selling items to players will die. Just buy that mid level robe I sold to some level 30 mage used instead of new from a tailor. This sounds poorly thought out to me atm.</DIV>

[Articulas]

<DIV>hmmm never looked at it that way. i hope the final price on items goes up tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> if i can't make money off of Carbonite studs anymore i'd at least like to earn it off a gold band or Bangle <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and apart of me being very lazy i hope this drives down the price of neolith tempers and other teir 3 liquids on the market for  tradeskilling so i don't have to run to the chemistry table every time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Devious Po]

<DIV>i think i'll just reserve judgement till all the changes roll live.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i might have missed it earlier, but i'll try and paint a picture for ya, which might cause some really bad things.   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i belong to a pretty good guild, we play games together and lalala.   ok so anyway.  the only thing i see that might be bad with the agro issue, is just this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. you go up against raid mob <insert name>.  most of the time these are alittle tuffer than the average giant in pf, or where ever you adventure.  so with that in mind, if we have our damaged uped significantly, and tanks can't hold agro, it's funny, but your 4 groups go poof.   so it's game over unless you get lucky,  have a couple healers standing around, and can actually get a rez off, before raid mob <insert name>  get the next huge hit off.   there's not alot of room for error, i guess is my point.  i'm gonna also assume that if you are in a position to raid, you pretty much understand how to hold your nukes, and not draw hate, and blah blah blah.   if you don't, go pick up an atari, at your local game shop, and get your pong on!  this is based on only raid mobs, cause normally you can get away with nuking whatever and whenever ya want, and if you pull agro, whoopdie dooo.  tank throws a taunt, healer tosses ya a heal, and the mob dies....   yay, we win!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. increase dps is nice, the same timer changes are good.   however, i'm alittle disappointed in the ice comet at 45 seconds, however raid stuff last alot longer than the giants in pf, so you'll probably get more than 5 of them off/encounter.   problem with that, please see above.  what happens when more lvls are added though, and we go back into groups of 6 to try and xp, and can only get off ice comet every 3rd mob!  oh well i guess, assasin big special is a minute i think, so we'll live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. i really hope this does not mess with adeptIII's.  i know there are some players out there that have invested alot of time getting spells, that i still believe don't get proper justice(because of bad scaling). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4.  let's give these devs a chance, i've actually seen a big improvement from other games, in regards to fixing issues.  i gotta believe that they are trying to roll out fixes and balancing that is appropriate for each class, but nothing is gonna happen over nite.   i'm mean hey, we obviously pushed our issues, and they are being addressed so hooooraahhhh for wizzies and warlocks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lastly, be happy your not a sk.   i have a couple of good buddies i've known for awhile, and yes they do tank well, but they have issues.  hopefully sk's will get looked at next!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>final suggestion, don't nerf the horsies.  i mean come on, i die if i'm on one and have agro, or if i'm not.  yes it helps to have the extra speed to get away, but isn't that the point of working so hard to get a horse?   if anything make them faster, so they are a proper mode of transportation.   the fix i see that would be best, is just make horses normal run speed (same as on foot) once locked in an encouter.  or maybe once locked in an encounter, you apply the nerfs being pushed on test. i think that would solve the problem.  just don't make traveling tons of zones go even slower by nerfing the speed.  i use my horse, as a means of travel, please let it conitinue to be one.. or i'll be first in line to sell mine back as well, cause it's just not worth it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hey and have fun out there!</DIV>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>Articulas wrote:<DIV>hmmm never looked at it that way. i hope the final price on items goes up tho <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> if i can't make money off of Carbonite studs anymore i'd at least like to earn it off a gold band or Bangle <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>and apart of me being very lazy i hope this drives down the price of neolith tempers and other teir 3 liquids on the market for  tradeskilling so i don't have to run to the chemistry table every time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><hr></blockquote>I think it will drive them down. There will always be people that don't want to make thier own tempers for time factor, and those that are cheapos. Sony seems really intent on keeping the coin low in the game. While this sucks for those players that are intent on only making money to buy NPC sold items like horses, it's better for everyone over the long haul. A slow trickle of coin prevents any one person being able to make selling coin for real money more work. It ruins the game for more people when items can be purchased outside of the game. The Frionia Vie server in EQ1 is a prime example of this. Since there is only 1% of items being no-drop/trade, everything is for sale. Since there is so much money floating around, anyone can simply buy a bunch of cheap money (ha ha ha, cheap money), gear up and go cause all kinds of hell for long time players.This is an inderpendant game. We have to work together. So it will always be a struggle to balance between to much interdependance, and not enough.

[Aad]

OK if there is at least one thing we can all agree on its this... If wizards do have to manage their aggro (which I love the idea btw) then eBay groups can no longer just press buttons wihtout getting A LOT of debt!Muahahahaahahaahaha Acutal Players 1 eBayers 0

[Darr]

<DIV>These changes come a long way towards making wizards what they are supposed to be. Whether this change is going to be enough remains to be seen, but I for one believe that an overall 300% increase in a very nice upgrade. Wizards/Warlocks should be the top dps in the majority of fights. Since I'm a 29 Wizard I can't comment on the efficacy of wizards past this level, but I downloaded a log parser at level 25 so I know that atleast up to level 29 there are no problems with wizard dps (should be even better with these changes). I have top dps in the group in every fight except when grouped with a warlock of similar level (top spot will trade off between myself and warlock) or grouped with a scout (they have some very nice skills, but only take top maybe 3 out of 10 fights). The great power we control means that our sacrifices must be just as great, such as our non-existant defense, and low hit points, yet one thing I've seen from wizards of all levels is complaints about our inability to solo well. I get frustrated as well when there seem to be no groups inviting and trying to solo a blue (solo con) having root break, and being at >50% Hp in 2-3 hit or less, but I've come to the conclusion that this is just another sacrifice I make for my power (as long as the sacrifices do not out weigh my arcane powers).  Regarding the fact that this game is designed to have both group and solo content, quite simply it does, wizards may not solo well, but it's possible, and the trade off is dps far superior to any other class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For those that are expressing their concerns please, give it atleast a week to take stock of the change and it's impact on your play style. (Dear lord, that's scary, I played a wiz for 5 years in EQ1 and hated the SoE fanbois that always said stuff like that, there is a major differance here though, there was an actual change made,  this is a major upgrade to the wizard class, something that never actually happened in EQ1). After playing a wizard EQ1 for 5 years (yup I'm a sucker) I have a healthy skepticism of SoE ever dealing wizards from an unstacked deck, yet I can feel nothing but pleasure at this change, a change that nearly every wizard and SoE knew was needed.  One thing to remember, these changes are still on test, until they go live you might want reserve your complaints, for or against.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Darret on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:51 AM</span>

[Luna]

<DIV>When does this patch go live?</DIV>

[qwaz]

I'm just curious ... do I have to be angry to be a wizard? ... ;P

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>qwazzi wrote:I'm just curious ... do I have to be angry to be a wizard? ... ;P<hr></blockquote>What [FaarNerfed!]ing kind of [FaarNerfed!]ing statement is that? What do you [FaarNerfed!]ing think? Of course you [FaarNerfed!]ing have to be [FaarNerfed!]ing angry to be a [FaarNerfed!]ing wizard! Holy [FaarNerfed!] I can't [FaarNerfed!]ing belive you even [FaarNerfed!]ing had to [FaarNerfed!]ing askt that!

[KariosKas]

<DIV>No we don't.  The low level spell draws an insignificant portion of hate and the higher level uprade is broken so it only draws hate from yourself.  And to one of the previous posters saying we have some kind of uber hate spell at 48 -- no we don't.  Pallies are bottom-rung in terms of agro management.  One weak single target taunt and one weak ae taunt are all we get from 40 to 50, unless you count a dumb stance that's a third as effective as a guardian's buffs.</DIV>

[Stavenh]

<blockquote><hr>KariosKasra wrote:<DIV>No we don't.  The low level spell draws an insignificant portion of hate and the higher level uprade is broken so it only draws hate from yourself.  And to one of the previous posters saying we have some kind of uber hate spell at 48 -- no we don't.  Pallies are bottom-rung in terms of agro management.  One weak single target taunt and one weak ae taunt are all we get from 40 to 50, unless you count a dumb stance that's a third as effective as a guardian's buffs.</DIV><hr></blockquote>That may be, you get heals, and heals, no matter how big or little are good agro.

[styph]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Articulas wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ennis wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Articulas wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> complain? YES i'm gong to complain! they are taking away fun parts of the game! the tanks are getting improvment to mitigation, but last time i checked if we are doing more damage and they aren't doing more taunting guess what? we're dead! i saw no where in that article where they are getting imporvment to hold agro! <DIV>as well apparantly you don't tradeskill, or own a mount. or else you'd be just as irked as i am.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Guess what?<BR><BR>That IS the way it should be!<BR><BR>Nuking is an fine art, how far can you push your DPS without drawing aggro away from the tank and on to yourself. It is like surfing, you want to be on the edge but not go over. You go over you wipe out.<BR><BR>Those Wizards who master the art of aggro management will be much in demand now. Those who overburn, do not understand that every group is different so you have to adjust your strategy to the dynamics of that group and have no idea of how to manage aggro will find themselves still LFG.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>sorry but thats an EQLive mentality. its unoriginal and i dont' believe in it one iota. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Wow....sour grapes. I like the finess of damage output and aggro management. it gives more to our job than just blasting away mindlessly. </P> <P>I'm sorry you feel that tanks should be able to out damage everyone else (as they currently can do at the high levels) but as for me, I think the fact that they're increasing a tank's tanking ability while decreasing their dps, is the only solution that makes sense. </P> <P>If you can't/don't like controlling aggro, don't play a wizard. And if the game and SOE just suck that bad, stop playing. </P> <P>Sheesh, we finally get some much needed help and someone still manages to find something to complain about. </P>

[styph]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> qwazzi wrote:<BR>I'm just curious ... do I have to be angry to be a wizard? ... ;P<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Yes, you have to be an angry, grouchy, cynical, mistrustful, jaded, bitter, contemptuous, and spiteful to be a true wizard. That's why we go lock ourselves in remote towers in the wilderness, read through old tomes and brood.

[Kalin Lazare]

Yeah, people are still finding things to complain about even BEFORE the changes have gone live. This is very disturbing. When I read the original post, and looked at the changes to our timers, the changes to our spells, I thought, "holy crap this is cool."As for tanks getting more aggro control and less DPS, I'm not too keen on what kind of changes are supposed to be happening with that. I am a 41 wizzy/20 zerk, the zerk being way too low in levels to really get a good sense of how things will be affected. The way I see it, whether it be high DPS/low defense or low DPS/high defense, if they are each able to solo with reasonable effectiveness, I won't be angry. I'm glad they're making these changes to wizzys. Should motivate me to try for 50!

[Stavenh]

Styphon, Art wasn't saying to increase fighter DPS, but their ability to increase hate at the same rate our damage was increased. Hate isn't solely generated by damage. Healing, buffing and even simple spells that increase hate, like taunt. If our DPS out distances the fighters ability to hold aggro, then we are going to die faster. Damage mitigation doesn't increase hate, it stops the tank from dying faster.

[styph]

<DIV>I guess I just miss the old days where I had to be careful how much I nuked. With a good tank, even one a couple levels lower than me.. I can NOT get aggro so long as I wait a few seconds before blasting. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think this big increase in DPS has a lot of usefull applications:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It will be very nice in raid settings, where you have a smaller chance of getting aggro simply because of probability. There will be several other people getting hate from damage and healing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soloing, this is a great change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In groups, this increase will be less effective because we will really have to be careful to not aggro ourselves</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, in the 3 different settings, we have 2 very goods and 1 slightly good....I'm happy. :smileywink:</DIV>

[TiitanTa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lunati wrote:<BR> <DIV>When does this patch go live?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I had the same question Lunati [ and it looked like it got buried].  Maybe another week or so?  Anyone know?

[qwaz]

<blockquote><hr>styphon wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>qwazzi wrote:<BR>I'm just curious ... do I have to be angry to be a wizard? ... ;P<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes, you have to be an angry, grouchy, cynical, mistrustful, jaded, bitter, contemptuous, and spiteful to be a true wizard. That's why we go lock ourselves in remote towers in the wilderness, read through old tomes and brood.<hr></blockquote>oh, and Stavenham too (the verb guy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />hehe ... cool, was just checking ... I wonder if(in the patch)they could work in an XP bonus for being angry, short tempered, and dissident

[Stavenh]

qwazzi, you don't have to be angry to be a wizard, just to post here.In game, I'm so nice, I cause cavities.

[qwaz]

I hear ya, and I figured that ... me tooI just play a wise-@ss in my spare time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by qwazzi on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:18 PM</span>

[Articulas]

<DIV>I think the big reason we are all angry here is because we are going into withdrawls being away from the game, and being wizards like we are we yearn for power <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> rather good or evil  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we needs it! we craves it! we must have it! gives us the power!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Articulas on <span class=date_text>02-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:22 PM</span>

[styph]

<DIV>LOL you guys are too much. :smileyvery-happy: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> *goes off to brood and sulk* </DIV>

[Kalin Lazare]

So when's this happening, these big changes? Next week or thereabouts? I'm ultra mega excited.

[Ennis]

<blockquote><hr>Marcalus wrote:<DIV>I think it says a lot that these changes have turned Ennis's attitude around...I remember her being pretty cheesed off a few weeks ago about wizards in general. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><hr></blockquote>Yes I was.But the changes being proposed are excellent IMHO.I am not so ignorant as to set all my opinions in stone unlike some around here. If that makes me "wishy-washy" in your opinion then TFB.

[Maendark187]

You guys are too easy to please, because you're so desperate for a fix. It's not that I don't understand how someone could be like this. If I wasn't playing WoW now after dropping my EQ2 accounts I'd be the same way. But the casters and the game in general have a long way to go. This is just the first small step in the right direction. EQ2's post-release development reminds me a lot of AC2...DUM DA DUM DUM!

[Kalin Lazare]

Maendark, did you even read about the changes?Anyone who did can see what is going to be accomplished here, and that is an enormous increase to wizzys' dps. I know what the changes will mean in application if the original post is accurate, and if we could take hits AND do that much damage, it would hardly be fair to any other class.

[Kamuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maendark187 wrote:<BR><BR>But the casters and the game in general have a long way to go. This is just the first small step in the right direction. EQ2's post-release development reminds me a lot of AC2...<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Good call there. It is alot like AC2. Man, that game got worst every patch. EQ2 seems to be getting better at least.</P> <P>Here's another scary thought. SWG was balanced better at release the EQ2. Now SWG killed itself trying to re-invent itself too fast (IE defense stacking god toons), I highly doubt EQ2 will make the same mistake.</P> <P>SOE should send blizard a fruit basket thanking them for making the WoW characters so cartoony, else WoW's superior game mechanics would have killed EQ2 already.</P> <P>This game will get better. If the game mechanics ever get close to the art, it will be awesome. Right now its a 10 for style and a 3 for game mechanics.<BR></P>

[MasterMerl]

Here is the thing that scares me about this patch:NOW everyone is going to complain that wizards do too much damage and bit-ch and complain that their class doesn't do enough dps. Then the wizards will be nerfed to do a little less damage and blah blah. I already see it happening, so all you out their do the wizards a favor. DO NOT BIT-CH ABOUT IT. WE ARE WIZARDS. WE ARE DAMAGE DEALERS. We are nothing else. Just give us that break, and don't bit-ch and moan about it. Everyones bitc-hing and moaning about the SKS and PALLYS horse spells cause them to nerf the other horses down, so please think about anything before you moan and complain about are damaging being upped.<p>Message Edited by MasterMerlin on <span class=date_text>02-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:51 PM</span>

[styph]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MasterMerlin wrote:<BR>Here is the thing that scares me about this patch:<BR><BR>NOW everyone is going to complain that wizards do too much damage and bit-ch and complain that their class doesn't do enough dps. Then the wizards will be nerfed to do a little less damage and blah blah. I already see it happening, so all you out their do the wizards a favor. DO NOT BIT-CH ABOUT IT. WE ARE WIZARDS. WE ARE DAMAGE DEALERS. We are nothing else. Just give us that break, and don't bit-ch and moan about it. Everyones bitc-hing and moaning about the SKS and PALLYS horse spells cause them to nerf the other horses down, so please think about anything before you moan and complain about are damaging being upped. <P>Message Edited by MasterMerlin on <SPAN class=date_text>02-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:51 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>good point. I don't want wizards to be "better" than any other class. I just want us to be well balanced. (which I see is us doing significantly more damage than scouts and fighters because we are totally useless except as a means of dealing damage) I want every class to feel usefull and to have fun. This is a team/group oriented game. When SoE gets further along in the process of balancing the classes, this will start to happen (hopefully). I just don't want to see a mages vs wizards rivalry like there was in EQ1. Classes that have similar duties tend to be competitive towards each other and it's easy for that to go overboard. I hope they treat all damage dealing classes fairly so everyone feels important. <BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I truly think this is SoE's goal as well... happy gamers are paying gamers-- and paying gamers are good (necessary) for business. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Time will tell I suppose. </DIV>

[Widgetblaster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ennis wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Marcalus wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think it says a lot that these changes have turned Ennis's attitude around...I remember her being pretty cheesed off a few weeks ago about wizards in general. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Yes I was.<BR><BR>But the changes being proposed are excellent IMHO.<BR><BR>I am not so ignorant as to set all my opinions in stone unlike some around here. If that makes me "wishy-washy" in your opinion then TFB.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Figured I'd check back on the thread...<BR></P> <P>No, no, no no...oh God, no. I wasn't saying at all that you are wishy-washy. It actually takes a mature individual to see changes, admit that they are good and change their mind. Since you were rather negative prior to these changes, it struck me that they must be pretty darn good to turn you around.</P> <P>That's all I was saying. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Whotookfrobo]

<DIV>Does anyone beside me realize that the casting time on Immolation is wrong according to what moorgard said in the patch updates it should be? I have tried to tell the Devs about it but with no luck so far PLEASE help me get the Fact out that immolation DOES NOT have a casting tim e of 3.0 seconds like the Patch updates said...but 4.0 SECONDS~</DIV>

[Grimme]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Maendark187 wrote:<BR>You guys are too easy to please, because you're so desperate for a fix. It's not that I don't understand how someone could be like this. If I wasn't playing WoW now after dropping my EQ2 accounts I'd be the same way. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><A href="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=1552508&p=1&tmp=1#post1552508" target=_blank>http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=1552508&p=1&tmp=1#post1552508</A></FONT></P> <P><A href="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=1290518&p=1&tmp=1#post1290518" target=_blank>http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=1290518&p=1&tmp=1#post1290518</A></P> <P>I like the one entitled "coming soon page never gets updated". Have you even been the the WoW forums? Here..</P> <P><A href="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.aspx?fn=wow-general&pageno=1" target=_blank>http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.aspx?fn=wow-general&pageno=1</A></P> <P>I bet you can list foods that you like, but that I don't like. That doesn't mean I have to eat them. Nor will telling me they are better than what I like make me like them.</P> <P>The people who were desperate for a fix are just impatient. It's only been a few months since the game came out, and there have been literally thousands of things updated. It's ok that impatient people move to WoW. They won't play WoW very long either.</P> <P>I play a warlock myself, and I was certainly not desperate for a fix. It is however nice that we got one. Tell you what, when the WoW warriors get a fix, you let us know, k?</P>